90+ Wedding Enquiries from ONE TikTok Video! - HOW?

Welcome to Wedding Photography Unveil.

Martin.

Hey everyone, welcome back to this week's episode. I'm so pleased you can join me. This week I'm joined by Scarlett Cook. She is a young wedding photographer. I'm gonna say young, just bear in mind everybody's younger than me nowadays. But Scarlett has used TikTok to build a very successful wedding photography business just in the space of what three years I think it is.

Hi yeah, I'm good, thank you. How are you?

I'm very, very good. A little bit so. A little bit so. Like like I mentioned to you before. I I did a well, not a quite a double header, but it was uh a wedding on Saturday and then uh a wedding fair on Sunday, which Always exhausts me. Do you do wedding fasts?

Not really. It's I find them really difficult because um they're good for getting into like local venues, but because because of the way I've built my business, I a lot of my stuff isn't local and I found it so hard in the beginning to get into wedding fairs and wedding venues and stuff locally because it was almost kind of all taken up already. So now I do them to try and get in with the

I just I I I have a love-hate relationship with them. Um I I certain ones are really, really good still, um, but as a Uh naturally I'm qu a a little bit of an introvert, a social introvert, so I find I'm really exhausting. So by the end of it I just have to uh crawl into my bed and just sort of like pull the duvet over my head and just rest for a an hour or so just to get my breath back.

Yeah, it's when they're really long as well and you've got the ones that are like ten till four and I'm like

Yeah, those are the worst. The at least the one I did it starts at eleven and finishes at half two, so it's quite short and snappy.

All right. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And because it's usually very, very busy, the it's the last half hour when it's quiet, and that's fine,'cause by then I've had enough, you know. Yeah. So cool. All right. So yeah, thanks for joining us, Scarla. Um, I'd like to just start off just by asking you a little bit about yourself, really. Um 'Cause I know you've you're very, very young. Um well, by my by my standards, anyway, because I'm an old fart. Um do you wanna just tell people a little bit about yourself?

Yeah, so I'm twenty four, um, which I think yeah, I would To be fair, in in terms of wedding photography and the wedding industry, I would say twenty four is quite young. Um, because all my friends are like older than me that are in the industry. So um yeah, and I started when I was twenty one. Rwy'n cael ei wneud. Rwy'n cael ei wneud film yn ysgrifennu ac yn ysgrifennu ac yn ysgrifennu ac yn ysgrifennu

Oh the irony.

I know exactly. And um I was working at a cinema at the time whilst I was at uni to, you know, earn money and try and get me through. And um one of my old colleagues, one of my old good friends, saw a post on Facebook that basically it was one of her mates and he was like, I'm giving away a camera to someone that might want it or someone that's gonna do something really good with it and

Oh really? Okay.

Yeah, so my friend nominated me'cause I couldn't afford my own camera. Like I was a uni student, I mean there was no way like I could afford a a decent one anyway. And um She nominated me, we went and picked it up and yeah, I got my first camera for free. Like off Facebook. So, you know, it all kind of started from nothing and Built into something. I mean, I haven't got that camera anymore. I should probably clarify I don't photograph weddings on that camera now, but it's um yeah, it just grew.

What's the camera just out of interest?

Uh I've got it still, actually. It was a Sony A thirty three. AX thirty three? Yeah, like pro like

I had it. Did you? I that was that was my first that was my first ever camera.

No way. There you go. But yeah, so and I got in the car after getting it with my friend, I said, If I ever do weddings, take it away from me and now look where we are. You know, that didn't last very long, but um Yeah, I was just taking photos of my mates basically and um dancers. I I'm an ex dancer, I say an ex dancer, I quit a long time ago, but um I'd spent my whole childhood dancing and stuff, so I I did dance photography with one of my friends.

How did that that transition go from, you know, obviously you you got your first camera, you started doing what you're familiar with, which is dance photography. How did you get from there into weddings? How did you sort of transition?

There was again it was a post on Facebook, which is so strange because, you know, my generation actually don't really use Facebook, but it got me all of my jobs, my first ones anyway. And it was just somebody tagged me because they'd seen me do my dance stuff. Um and the you know, it was was one of those posts where it said we're on a tight budget. You know what I mean?

Of course.

And looking for a student amateur photographer. And you know, as much as people don't like those posts now I mean I don't mind them, but a lot of people don't like them because, you know, it desensitizes the industry and all these type of things. For me, that one post changed my whole life. So, you know, the people that are still looking for amateurs and students, like, keep going because we all like we do need it. So um I did that one. And then one of my friend's cousins was getting married.

Jackpot.

I was like, this is amazing. So, and one of my good friends now was the photographer at the wedding. And I was chatting to her and I said, I'd really like to get into a wedding photography and all this. She said, Well come with me then. Come and t come and do some with me. She took me under a wing, we went y to a couple of weddings I did completely free, but you know, I went to the wedding, saw how they all work.

There you are. So w how old were you when you did your first wedding?

I think I was nineteen. Um I never really it was before COVID. So I guess that's a good way of Gauging. I was twenty when COVID hit. So yeah, I was nineteen, I think. I I always I never know. I always forget. But it was around that age, nineteen twenty. I was I was I was Yeah, just to going into my twenties, I reckon.

Okay, f uh fantastic. So Was all your training done alongs it like in the field alongside your friend who you sort of tagged along with?

Pretty much. I w I had taken photos. like you know, the actual photography wise, I kind of knew how to work the camera, but I'll be honest, like I didn't really know. Like I kind of used automatic a lot. Like I know I don't

Really?

But back then I d I didn't like get it. I just didn't get I'd never been good at maths. And I think what people forget is that it is actually quite mathematical how they to like add up the

Well when you when you say we th do you mean just yourself or your friend as well? She she doesn't shoot in JPEG, does she? No.

My friend does not

Right. Okay. So it's just yourself who was there for free.

It was just me at nineteen twenty having absolutely no idea what I was doing. Um, but bless her, she had so much patience and she was just like, uh it's fine, just try another one. Like it's fine, just

To be fair, it's really good that you just went straight into it and you know, you learned on the job and you didn't You know, because a lot of people would find that overwhelming and get too worried that, you know, oh, what if someone can see that I'm not doing very well?

Yeah. Yeah, I think I didn't even think about that. Like, to be honest. Now that you've said that I'm like maybe someone was thinking, What is she doing? But like I didn't even think.

I no, I I th I I think if I look back at my early days and my very first wedding for example and overthought it, I would never have done it either.

Yeah. Like the ones the first ones I did on my own, which was before I'd actually I think the first one I did on my own was before I'd even met my friend. And um I'm still like they're not as good as obviously as the ones I take now, but I'm still so proud of them and I think the the you know, looking at them now, like I I I'd still think they're great. Like Because back me then thought they were great. Does that make sense? Like

Oh, I wish I could say the same about mine. I look at my n my first wedding now and I'm just embarrassed. I I took a friend with me.

Yeah.

I d I took a friend with me who'd shot a couple of weddings. But I obviously I was leading and I just sort of went straight into it. Whereas you had the sort of safety net of having your friend there to sort of like and and whatever you gave was a bonus. Whereas my first wedding because I didn't know anyone, I had to go straight into it. And oh God, honestly, I was just like I'm embarrassed. I I truly am embarrassed.

Oh, bless you. I think the thing is though, as well, like, you know, some of my earliest stuff, like, especially my film stuff, which I was doing at college, I mean, that is

All right.

And um like I don't really do wedding films anyway. Like I d I've done a couple, but like they're not my brother works with me and my brother's a videographer, so we do a package, but it's not really a package. It's He you can book it through me, but he'll do it. It's basically what it is now. It's changed over the years, but um so I don't really do that now anyway. So I don't really have anything to compare it to.

When you when you say they book it through you but he he delivers it, d but do you still sort of like get the money and then pay your brother?

Basically, yeah.

So I'm still with you.

Yeah, he's still with me. It's not like it's completely separate.

You're just outsourcing it.

Yeah, and he doesn't do it full time, like so it's easier for me to just book it for him and then they chat to It's so much but he does all of that. So as I say, like the with the wedding film stuff, I don't have a lot to compare old stuff to'cause I don't really do it anymore. But um yeah, the start is always rough, isn't it really? But

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, you sort of find your way, don't you?

Yeah, absolutely. You do blind lean the blind, but eventually you get Yeah.

Okay, so I think w one of the things I think we'll we'll get on to, obviously the the topic of today is really talk about how you use leverage TikTok to sort of build your business. But just before we dive into that, um Obviously uh at twenty four years old you you are firmly Gen Z, whereas I'm firmly not Gen Z. Um do you think

It's a good question. I do think the industry has massively changed. Um, I ha I wasn't in the industry before it changed, so I can't talk from that perspective in the sense that, you know, I started off with it being one way and gone with it into another. But I've been there when it has been changing and so I've noticed

When you say uh older people seem to be looking more at recommendations, whereas people of like your age are more going off like socials. What do you define as older? Because obviously my idea of older and yours is gonna be very different.

Yeah, I would say f thirty three plus.

Oh my god. God, I feel like a dinosaur now.

I'm sorry. I think because So my generation was probably the first to fully grow up with social media. So obviously like you had MSN and things like this, but I mean like in like the proper age of Instagram and TikTok and Snapchat and all these different things. And it was like a learn on the job thing for that for my age group, I think, because it w in a way

Okay.

Right, right, right. It's that a like when it was Twitter, I was sixteen, seventeen, eighteen. So people would go on to find things like that and then you you know, that people kinda left that and went on to Instagram and I mean Instagram was kinda always there, but it's more TikTok people went on to now.

One of the interesting things that um I realised'cause my daughter is twenty nine and she's planning her wedding at the moment. And one of the things I found fascinating was last year she was planning a trip to Switzerland. And she planned the entire thing using TikTok.

Yeah.

Not Google, not Instagram, nothing. She just literally searched everything.

Like, I don't invest a lot of my market marketing money into Google or anything like that. Like anything that's really paid. And why is that? Because I find Google so difficult.

Difficult.

Yeah, I know. Like I never

What's difficult about Google?

I don't know. I just never my traffic ain't great. I need to work on it. But to be honest, I've never thought to invest in it because I've got all of my clients. for free from TikTok. So why would I need to invest into something when the other thing's working? Do you know what I mean? Like I've never just thought to invest in it yet. But this is what I mean by

About a billion people will come up.

billion people will. So, you know, it's it's a different way of searching and so I've I've not invested into Google because I just didn't you know, I might do one day if I need to, but for now I'm like, I d I don't need to at the minute. And that's why it's I think that's for me. You know, that's how it's changed quite a bit.

I I look at it uh what what you said about, you know, oh you get all your clients from TikTok and and that's great. Um and I years ago w when I started invested in Google, um and because I've always been in IT before I became a photographer, I've always been very conscious of single points of failure. It was sort of drummed into me all my career. So I sort of looked at it and gone, Okay, I'm getting like at at the peak, I think I was getting like forty percent of my inquiries through Google.

I think it's really tricky because I totally agree that you you can't put your eggs in one basket and you know SEO is just something I just haven't delved into yet. And I haven't bothered to invest in yet. But the time might come where I need to get my hat together. But

The problem is is SEO is such a saturated market now. I wonder if the efforts that you would need to put in now as someone starting off to get your website optimized would be worth the returns.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,'cause in twenty twenty one when I s when I officially started. Everyone above me had been in the industry for years. And their Google reviews had like hundred reviews. And I was looking and I was thinking, how on earth, without investing my life savings, How on earth am I gonna get higher than them? Like I'm gonna need to find another way. And that's how I ended up on TikTok. Because I was like, I can't

I I I think also when you started in twenty twenty one, bear in mind that many of us had done nothing but SEO for an entire eighteen months because what else could you do during the pandemic? We couldn't shoot a wedding, so we might as well work on our websites. And, you know, anyone selling SEO knowledge at the time was doing great.

Yeah. And also what I found was that everyone that was above me on the search engine side. was older than me. So they weren't they weren't gonna be using TikTok. So I was like, well, might as well get you know, try something else because it's n SEO's not gonna work.

And and this is exactly what I wanted to talk to you about. Uh so okay. So just before we dive into TikTok then,'cause you've sort of brought it up organically, um, did you look at Instagram in the same way or did you sort of like Start on Instagram first and then TikTok or did you just go straight looking

So I started on Instagram. So I actually didn't have social media for a personal reasons until I was seventeen. which was unheard of, like for my age. But I was always so scared. Like I was such a shy kid and I was such a shy teenager. And to be honest, I was shy up until I was about twenty two. And then when I started to get paid to not be shy, that's when I my confidence came. Because you can't be shy at a wedding.

Well that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I think the what I've heard about TikTok as well is that it it it doesn't matter about the number of followers you've got. It it it's all about the content and engagement and as people sort of find you and watch your videos, it sort of gets pushed out to more and more people. So it's much easier for people to get started. That's what I've been told anyway.

Yeah, definitely. And yeah, as I say, people haven't got a you know, people wouldn't go onto TikTok and search up my name. Um But they'd find me on their for you page if I put hashtag wedding photographer and they were getting married. So, like, do you know what I mean? Like the algorithm works in your favour.

Do you do you prefer to work nationwide or just sort of within your local area?

I prefer nationwide. Um, because I mean I love getting local ones. I can go home for dinner that night, like drive in I haven't got a two and a half, three hour drive that I've all you know, to look forward to after the wedding. But I um I love seeing new places and I love seeing new venues and You know, I j I just love that excitement of seeing a place different. But then don't get me wrong, I've always been a homebody, so I would don't mind ones that are I quite like the local ones.

I think I think if you if you are working nationally like that then it does become hard to find a venue that will recommend you because you're only there once, you know, generally. Um

And also places I don't want to be a recommended supplier and that's not that's not because the venue's bad at all. It's because it might be quite far away. And if I get recommended there, you know, five to six times a year, I've got a you know, add all that travel on and then probably have less bookings because I have to prepare time for travel and also to look after myself so I can't be blocking all this stuff in s back to back that is too much.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Okay. So w when you first you said you started it as a personal account, at at some point you thought, right, I'm gonna use this To sort of see if I can attract clients. Um what was your first video and where did you get that inspiration from?

So I put up a the w the first one I remember is I put up a video and I'd just done a wedding on a new lens. It looked great. So I was really proud of myself. I mean this. 35mm. And I still have a 35mm, religiously. But I was very unaware of the world of lenses and camera gear at at that time. And I bought a new lens and I was like, this is amazing.

That was your very first video.

About my web photography, yeah. Yeah, but um it was with that thirty five millimeter that in that lovely little bar in my hometown. And um I just used those photos. with another wedding I did for my friend at my old job that got married. I did those as well. And um yeah, it got like thirty I think it was like fifty K views or something, which to me at the time was like mental. Um and I got tw like twenty five inquiries from that, just from that one video.

Wow. What a start. That's amazing. And I think this is something which I noticed when I watched yours because like you know, a a good friend of mine, Adam Lowndes, he he obviously does a lot with T. His videos are a lot more polished and a lot more what I would consider the way to sort of attract clients.

I know.

And mine get about three.

I know it's it is mind blowing and I get asked so often like What's the trick? How'd you do it? I know this isn't what you want to hear on the podcast, but I genuinely

Oh great.

The answer. But I think yeah, I just don't know like how they end up how they ended up doing so well. Like I really I mean, some people would probably just be like, Oh, it's'cause they're really good and I'm like, oh white, I know, I like I know, like I do really like them, like the photos that are in them. But I just I just don't understand why people uh in the beginning saw it and gave me a chance, basically.

So. Wow. Okay. So d did you ever feel self conscious about putting yourself out there, uh, you know, creating putting your face in a video?

Yeah. Yeah. As I say, like I didn't have t I didn't have social media until I was um Yeah, seventeen. And I s before that and during when I got my first Instagram page and stuff, I struggled a lot with my body and, you know, all those things that a lot of people, young people go through anyway.

You've learned a lesson that I'm only just learning in the last year or so. Um, that if you sort of worry too much about what other people think, you never get anything done. Never. And Once you you know once you start putting your face behind the camera like I've started doing in the last like twelve months you do get to the point where it becomes it gradually easier and easier. That that first time I'm like

Yeah. Also I think as well, nobody comments on how I look. Like that. Never had one comment about how I look and it's always been about my photos. And so for me I've never even th you know, I hadn't really thought about it in the sense of putting my face on there because no one ever commented on my face. Like they were only ever commenting on my photos. So

just for people who might not have seen any of your TikToks yet, I'm sure after this they'll probably go and check it out. When you say show your face and your photos, how are you creating these videos? You know, can you just take us through a very like quick video that how you put that together.

So I'll most likely be sitting uh with my hair washed in a dressing gown. Um I'll I'll tell you a story. That my most successful TikTok to date, um, and it's pinned on my profile. is a video I made a week after my mum got married. And my ex boyfriend had just broken up with me the day before I got married. And I well the first time I'd had a shower in a week, yeah. I like wet hair.

Holy shit.

Like, I literally was like, Well, at least something's good to come out of this week, but so as I say, I'll be sitting in a dressing gown, hair washed, whatever. And then um I add some photos to the end of it. So I'll put the video I'll do a video myself and then I'll go in and to the little editing bit on TikTok and I'll add some photos in that from weddings that I want to share.

I I think I'll I'm gonna go and check that one out afterwards and just sort of see. Give you a million and one views. One thing that I just thought of whilst I w whilst you were telling me that story, um I read something recently and I'd be intrigued to hear your opinion on this, but um and I and I dearly, dearly wish I'd save this

Yeah.

feel a little bit more not authentic.

Yeah, I think people just I think when it comes to wedding photography as well and you're investing a lot of your money into it. People like to see what's behind it and where it's come from. And I think that's the thing with TikTok in general is that people like that behind the scenes.

So would you say authenticity is more important than the actual photos you show?

I'd say they go hand in hand. Like, I wouldn't say that one is more important than the other. Because I think without the authenticity really get the client because, you know, they don't see you and who they're hiring as well. So I think you do need to be. I'm not saying sell your soul to TikTok, but I do think you have to be, you have to have like a certain level of personal, you know, like.

And and d and do you think you could achieve success on TikTok without showing your face?'Cause what about you know,'cause there's a lot of people out there and I've spoken to a lot of photographers who are just like, I don't want to be in front of the camera.

Yeah. I think so. Like I really do. I think if you have the ability to tell a story alongside your photos. Yeah. Definitely.

And any tips for those sorts of people?

I would say Get videos at weddings if you don't want to show your face. It's not essential to show your face. But, you know, you could show your camera or Your computer editing or anything like that, your car journey there, anything, anything, like any kind of time.

How could you make a car journey interesting for TikTok well? That I'm like

But you also have the slideshow option, don't you, with just the photos. So a lot of mine are just slideshows of the photos. And it will start with the most What I'd say intriguing pull in photo, which might be of some light or at slightly out of focus, or someone laughs.

Okay, that's really interesting. So basically it sounds like start with a hook. Um it doesn't always have to be you doing something yourself. It just whatever a clip a short clip of video or something, even As mundane as driving to the venue, it's all about the caption, the photos on

Yeah, I always say that everything is content no matter how many views it gets. And so somebody might come from one video that you've posted. They might see that video on your F uh on your for you page and then go to your account from there and then see that other video that hasn't got many views, but they've seen it and they've seen the photos.

Okay. And and how important is it that you add some music in the background just to sort of keep people engaged?

So all of mine have music on them. But I wouldn't say I use so I get asked a lot about trending audios and stuff. And I don't really tend to use them because a lot of the time they don't actually match with what I'm talking about. I just use a song I like. I love Boniver, love him, Hosier, like all of that kind of thing

And uh you've got a business account now, haven't you?

No. It's for my business, but it's not a business account.

Right. Right, okay. I was just about to ask because I at the beginning when I first created a TikTok account, I changed it into a business account and then the music was just tragic. So I changed it back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Change it back. No, we don't need that. Yeah, I I've never had one but I do know it's like Instagram, the ability to use certain sounds just completely disappears. But I've got a creator account on Instagram now, so You get the you get the sounds back. Um, and you still get the business tools as well. It's like best of both. It's quite nice. So um, but yeah.

Well how'd you get a creator account? Just people who might not know.

On settings, it's just a new setting, I think.

Oh okay. Cool. So you don't have to have a n certain number of followers or anything, you just

I do. I don't I f I discovered it when I had like three thousand followers on Instagram, so you might have to have over a thousand. But most people who are wedding photographers do normally have

That number You know what, I don't I don't even know whether mine is or not. I d that's how clueless I am.

Yeah, is you know, most people I know anyway that would w would benefit from having a crater account then just

I will go and check that out afterwards

Go and check it out, yeah. Um but yeah, with the sounds and stuff, you know, like there's audios trending at the moment that just have nothing to do with my wedding photos, so I'm not gonna use them. Like, um it also it all depends on what's trending for you. So on your for you page is gonna be totally different to mine. And so your trending audio might be very different to what my trending audio is. Like I love Taylor Swift, so it's all to and as I say

I'm gonna get so much grief for admitting I like Taylor Swift now.

There's no shame in it. She's great.

Okay. Oh that that's amazing. You've given me so much to think about on on TikTok and uh you know, I I actually really want to try To put a few slideshows. In my mind, I've always thought that people on TikTok wouldn't be interested in slideshows of photos, but it certainly doesn't sound Tha that certainly doesn't s seem like it's the case.

Yeah. Now... Yeah, no. No. I d that's my only art no. I think make it you know, I didn't have a right all reason for when I started, you know. Like I studied media studies at university, so I spent my entire time studying social media but Um, I didn't have a toolbook of how to use TikTok when I graduated. So there's nothing you can really learn, you know. I haven't got any outside knowledge. I just I think I know how to use it.

So Did you do any sort of uh uh have you looked at any sort of training or tutorials or did you just literally throw things against the wall and see what stuck?

through things against the wall and see what's not. Yeah. Yeah. Like I didn't have yeah, I always just say to people, just consistent, just keep posting. I mean I'm I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I haven't posted in about a two weeks on TikTok because I was so busy with

Okay. So out of pure interest, how many inquiries would you say you've had through TikTok at the moment? O obviously not bookings, I mean like inquiries.

So a good example when my uh video of me and my dressing gown with my best life This was about nearly two years ago now, but um That got one million views. That got me ninety inquiries in three days.

Nine zero.

Yeah. Jesus. Which completely just yeah, as I say Like I had a much better week after that happened. So I had a much better week, Christ. But um yeah, so it's As I say, like that I d I wouldn't be able to tell you how many. I mean, you know, I think I don't want to be like, I had ninety inquiries and I've got ninety weddings. That's not how it works.

No.

They didn't convert they didn't all convert into

Of course no.

But I'd say I probably got about twenty to twenty five solid bookings from that.

From one video.

Wow. Yeah. You know, so even I mean for me, even one is his success. Because it's one more person.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I'd consider that a win.

So literally, so you know, ninety was out of this world and as I say, that was another situation where I was refreshing with my grandma. Like, oh my God, Lur, like that's great, what is going on? And I was getting weddings for places that weren't you know, people like they've got a bucket list venue. I was getting inquiries for places that weren't even on my bucket list. I got like I got a wedding for Westminster Abbey.

So i it'll be in the hundreds then because you've got ninety or fifty.

first one. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But you know, I got a video with another another video that got one million views and I got no inquiries. So it really thoroughly depends on who you reach and what time of year it is, I think, as well. Like, you know, that was the ones that have got me the most inquiries have been in about November, December. So, you know, when kind of people get engaged, booking season kind of

Interesting because I always see that as the quiet period.

I know. I said this is why I think the market's changing quite a bit. Back to like the original question of the beginning with Yeah. Gen Z and what age is working differently and stuff and all of this. I do think that is what's changing massively, is that people are booking at different times and at later times. So

Yeah. And are many of your friends sort of in that age group yet where they're getting married, or is that not quite hit your age yet at twenty four?

Two of them are engaged, which is very exciting. Obviously I am Agony Aunt for every question that they have, which is totally fine. Um but yeah, they are they yes, we are in that age. now, which is crazy, but a lot of my clients are my age. So it's not something I'm not used to in the sense of someone my age getting married. But um Yeah, all my friends, yeah, they're starting, which is

So in terms of importance then, obviously I would s and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd say TikTok sounds like it's your most important way to market. Um what's what's second and third?

Probably Instagram is the second. And then third is probably my website. Um, and the SEO, I am working on it. I still am investing in Google, but I am working on it, the SEO aspect. I mean, it's getting better, I think, as well, because of the amount of traction that happens when someone when my TikTok does well. People click on my website through my buy on TikTok. And then that's helping it build up as well. But I'd say my website is probably the third

I thought you didn't use Facebook.

No, not really, but people uh My mum's friends recommend me on V.

Oh my god.

Which I love. Which is really sweet. And also, because I'm a dance photographer, their parents are my clients and they recommend me quite a bit. Um so I get a lot of older

Bye.

uh generation um recommend me on there, which is quite good. You know, I still get recommended. Um word of mouth as well, I'd say is probably a big one, but as I say, it is kind of all predominantly Online. But I do I went for a phase where I would send off posters to dance schools.

I don't think you can. Have your finger in every pie. I think it'd be lovely to be able to, but there's only so many hours in the day, isn't there? You you gotta sort of pick your niche and and dive into that.

Yeah, and Wedding Talks as well is quite a big one, I think, as um for submitting and stuff. But even then you don't really you don't get

I was gonna say, have you a had inquiries from a wedding blog? I don't think I ever have.

No, just the um I think the exposure of having the name

Yeah, I I used to submit them purely for the backlinks to help with my SEO, but then you you you sort of get to the point where more backlinks aren't necessarily helping.

And they're oversaturated as well. So there's so many that you're like don't know where to go or who to who to do and or like um letting so I just let venues and suppliers have the photos from weddings, obviously with the couple's permission. But I just say you can have'em. Like I'm not um I don't usually you know, unless a venue asks for a specific thing, I don't usually charge

I wish we could. I I genuinely do, but yeah, you can't be. You you reminded me when you we were talking about Facebook what my my my kids'cause I say kids, my like I say, my daughter's like twenty nine this year, my son's twenty four this year and the youngest is eighteen. And they always say to me Facebook's for all people. And and when you were saying, like, oh, my mum's friends recommend me, I was like, oh.

Yeah. Yeah, none of my friends are on there. The only thing I really use Facebook for is Facebook Marketplace. and somebody tags me in a post on like my local group. I'm looking for a photographer, you know, that kind of thing. Um, so I get

Does it ever work? Because I it never I don't even bother replying now.

Thank you.

Bride. A bride the other day tagged me um in a in a thread where her friend had said, Oh, anyone know any wedding photographers? I don't even bother replying because nothing else

There's so many as well, you know, on those groups when you

Oh, it's like a feeding frenzy, isn't it?

Oh God, they're just there's so many. You're like you'll look at it and you'll see it and you'll go that's quite good, I'll see. Then you'll be like the fifty eighth comment, you're like, All right, so but there's no point. Like there's so many on there and um it's just it's very overwhelming.

And and that's just and that's just the comments. Like when I used to do more in Facebook groups and I was admin of a a few bigger ones. What used to really what people didn't really see was you'd get a hundred replies on the actual post, but then you'd get twenty or thirty people, even if it said no DMs.

It's really yeah, it's yeah, it's tricky, isn't it, the Facebook realm? But Yeah, I just yeah, stick to my what I'm good at and carry on.

L let's switch tacks a bit. Um let's talk a little bit about pricing if you're if you're happy with that.

Of course, go for it.

I again I'm gonna I'm gonna refer to the fact that you're you're slightly younger and and and in the Gen Z world. Um sorry if they sorry for that. Um Would you say um price is on or off the website?

Now they used to be off. the website. But then I would get a lot of people inquiring that wouldn't end up replying back, which is totally fine. But I realized that for me, I was wasting a lot of people's time and my time by not having it on there.'Cause I was like, you know, people have to go you know, a lot of people have a lot of set steps. So contact people. Mine was very simple. You just set an inquiry, I replied. But

Has the number of inquiries dropped or has that not dropped?

No, I don't think so. The number of inquiries hasn't no, hasn't dropped. But the it well it has because of I haven't had a one million view video in a while, so that's why that's why it drops as well. But um from actual you know, in in general No, it hasn't it hasn't dropped. It's just Yeah, people are just my prices haven't really changed as well for a long time, so

I th I I I am in a bit of a dilemma about this at the moment, I'll be honest with you, because um in the past I think the the conventional wisdom was if you wanna be at the the the the more expensive end of the market, then don't put prices on. If you wanna be at the cheaper end, then put prices off. Oh on sorry. Um and I'm starting to get to the point now where I'm wondering if the generational difference is is is causing a bit of a shift. And I don't mean in terms of

Well yeah, people just want things in instantly. Which I think, you know, I'm not being funny, but if I was in their shoes and I was looking for wedding suppliers and I had to email every single one to get a price. it would wind me up. L I can't even lie, it would. Like, I'd just be like it would be like um

I am with you. Yeah yeah on that one I agree with you.

I put myself in the shoes of the client and I always think, Well the people getting married at my age. So if I'm like that, they're obviously you know, there's gonna be someone else out there that's like that. And I think I always think people would rather just know the price.

Yeah, yeah, I I'm so with you because I've seen some inquiry forms and like, What's your favourite music? you know, if you were an animal, which one would you be? It's like, for God's sakes, I want a price. I don't want an I don't want an exam, you know?

I fill in enough forms. Do you know what I mean? Like I've got contracts to write and exactly I wouldn't want to be doing

'Cause I think we as wedding photographers often forget that If a bride's inquiring with you, chances are she's inquiring with others. And I can so and I can totally understand the argument that if you've got to fill in four or five of these forms and every single person wants a bloody SX.

Yeah.

Just to get a price as well.

Well, and also we're only wedding for top. Do you know what I mean? We're not the DJ. Like we don't like I understand that you we wanna get to know people and I get it. Like I totally get it. And I think it's as the level of personal. I really do. I think it's great. But I'm only a wedding photographer, you know? And like people are coming to me for my photos and my personality matters massively.

Yeah.

So I've had absolutely no business experience before starting my business. So in terms of actually knowing what to like price myself as or anything, I truly learn from other people. And so, you know, I was I had my prices as what my prices were. And then people were like, y there's people doing the same thing as you for double the money.

And I can't when did you decide to go from whatever to one thousand six hundred?

when that video did really well. So, you know, it started to do really well anyway. But I think it was one thousand two hundred for the full day in the beginning. I can't remember, to be honest with you, but it was low for what it compared to what it is now. It was low. And I was happy, if I'm honest, because I was I'd work for minimum wage, you know. Like

Oh uh yeah, then it must it twelve twelve hundred quid even must have been like oh my god

Mind blowing. I had never in a million years for I'd ever be able to make the money like that for what I was doing. Um,'cause at uni they do teach you y it's a creative job, mate. You've been working for nothing. Do you know what I mean? And you do work for nothing in the beginning, but You don't always work for nothing. And um I yeah, so when things started to pick up and do a bit better, that's when I was like, right, let's price match a little bit what other people are doing.

I I mean, I can't talk. My first wedding all I also shot with a single card slot camera, but I did have a second camera. And um famously, uh well not famously, I don't know how many people know, um, at my very, very first wedding, I sat down at the wedding breakfast and like I said, I was already paranoid. So sat down at wedding breakfast, I thought I'll back everything up, plug my S D card in Cobbledycook.

Oh gosh.

I was like, oh shit. My very first wedding, my main camera, the card was cruel. I was like, oh shit.

I had that, but Jesus.

Carry on the best I can and long story short, I managed to recover most of the photos. I think I lost about Somewhere like sixteen to twenty photos. Oh, that's fine. Thankfully. But there was a lot of photoshopping needed um for the corrupted images. And that's why I'm now paranoid about dual card slots and

I bet. It's rough. It is rough, especially when you can't afford it in the beginning.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I was already making a big loss'cause I charged them a hundred quid but I'd spent about three hundred on camera equipment.

Literally, like, you know, and it's it's really tricky and as I say, the more money you charge the more pressure you have.

Yes and no, uh to a certain point, I think when you're when you're a cheaper photographer, I almost think there's more pressure because Expectations are actually higher, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. I think for me Because I'd started off with like second shooting for someone, the pressure's there. But the minute I was getting paid for it, I was like, Oh Jesus.

And you had Johnny on the spot, yeah.

I was scared. And as I say, I'd I'd worked for uh, you know, at cinema. Like I wasn't, you know, doing anything particularly crazy. And I was twenty two. S or twenty one at the time. So I literally had no idea what I was doing. And I think the pr I didn't want my price to be so high with no experience that I panicked. But I'd never done a workshop, I'd never done a style shoot.

Okay. That that's lovely to hear for several reasons because firstly, um and and since it's on your website, do you mind sharing what you've uh your twenty twenty five prizes for a full day?

Two thousand three hundred.

Which I think is an incredible journey for someone who, you know, started in twenty twenty two, did you say? Yeah. So That's just insane. Um, and the fact that you are saying that things are going really great for you this year as well and last year because

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. I've taken on less this year for my own personal reasons. I had forty five last year, nearly fifty. And I think that's why it was the best year of my life, but I did learn a lot. I learned a lot of valuable lessons, made a lot of mistakes.

Do do you want to share a any of those lessons?

Just don't give just don't give yourself too much.

Don't take on too much.

Don't do things you don't want to do. Honestly. Like I don't know how else to say it. Like just don't you've got a bad thing about something, just don't do it.

It it's your business at the end of the day, so if you don't want to do something, don't do it. Yeah, I agree.

that's also dance photography and um you know just I've I learned a lot. Just don't do things you don't want to do. Don't put your the the pressure on yourself you don't want to do. I'm a massive advocate for mental health and looking after especially in dancers I have a lot of young clients And I work very closely with a mental health charity and I am pushing every day for better mental health advancers. And so if I don't look after mine, what am I showing to people? especially young kids

Oh really? You're doing like forty five, fifty weddings a year and you

No I didn't have another job last year, but this year a lesson I learnt last year was that I can't I can handle pressure, really you know, job requires you to, but I don't need to as much as I think I was trying to handle it last year. And I hated working on my own all the time. And so I I went and got another job. But um a part time job, but um just to take the pressure off a little bit and I worry so much less about um

So when you say you got a part time job, which is your primary income? Right. So you are a full time photographer, you just took a

Yeah.

Your your your part time job is a side hustle effectively.

I've got a side hustle, but my full time job is um whether

Yeah.'Cause uh one thing I learned, especially when the pandemic first kicked in, was how many full time photographers actually had another income stream. Whatever that income stream might be. Some might be property, some might be another job. You know, it was amazing because I always worried myself because I used to and looking back I don't know how I did it. Um but I w for the first

Yeah, that's exactly it. And I just was like, I don't I loved I love my job. I love being a wedding trophy. But if I wanna I'm only 24 and at the time I made the decision I was 23. And so if I wanna continue to love this for as long as I do and if I want to continue to grow myself on TikTok and Instagram and to build up this community and stuff like that, can't burn myself out at 24. Like it's just not feasible. It's not gonna happen.

Which is still uh which is still a good number. Um and again r looking I mean I'll put the survey out once it's complete and stuff, but at the moment it's looking like the average number people aim at are somewhere between twenty and thirty. So, you know, you and and that's uh the majority of those are full time photographers. So you're not and and you're certainly charging above average prices as well.

Yeah, the part time job for me was for the social aspect. Yeah. Or not putting so much pressure. or myself at quite frankly quite a young age and you know, I I I hadn't I don't I don't have any colleagues. Like do you know what I mean? Like, you do just work for yourself and and it it got quite

It is because i every even though you go to a a party effectively every single week, sometimes multiple times a week. because of the job we do, we're really just viewing the party. We're not really part of the party. You know, I know I can join them on the dance floor, I can eat the cake and Blah blah blah. But ultimately I am there to document somebody else's party. It's not my party. They're not my friends. They're not my family. And and I am kind of conscious of that.

Yeah. It's so it's strange, isn't it? Rewarding, but strange.

It's very rewarding. You're you're absolutely right. It's very r one of the most rewarding jobs and that's the main reason why I did get to the stage where I thought I hate my day job so much that I'm just gonna do this because

Yeah, exact exactly that. So, yeah, I mean it yeah, as I say, it's you know, on on TikTok I don't have another job, so

Yeah.

You know, to other people I've got another job, but I love it, so there's no

So d do you see uh I think we're nearly there now. Um do you see yourself as an artist or a business owner or something in between?

A little bit of in between, I think. I hadn't really thought about myself as being an artist until recently. Um, but somebody was like, Your you know, people I get I got the same comment which was, Your photos are art, this is amazing and all of this and I was just like Never even thought about it like that.'Cause it's it's wedding photos. I mean, that's not you know, but I obviously do dance photography as well.

Okay, awesome. And uh I think uh I've only really got one more question for you. Um if if I could give you like a a blank canvas. For the next five years. Um, w what would you do with it? Where where do you want to be in in five years? What does success look like for you?

For me. Success is

It's a hard question.

I just I want to be uh on this really nice path I'm on at the moment, which is happy and comfortable and just having that really nice life work balance. Um, I've definitely taken a l you know, I've never felt this good in my business until now. And so I'd like to continue on that path. of just um feeling happy and

Oh love it.

I love it. Very content with my life. So

Yeah. No, I I you know what you when you were saying that then, you remind me very much of my two younger kids who are both sort of like very th I think my generation and and and above are very much like you you you know you you finish a uni, you go out get a job and you work hard. Yeah. They are both very much, much more about work life balance.

Yeah.

Um so you know, I I I think Gen Z often get a a a bad rap, um, but I actually think that every generation thinks the newer generation is worse than them. And from what I've seen, I actually think Gen Z is very entrepreneurial and very well balanced.

Yes. Yeah. That's how you should think. As long as you know, if you can get one, then it's one more than you had yesterday. So

Brilliant. Scarlett Cook, thank you very much.

Thank you so much.