Takeaways from my Convo with Chris Do (BONUS)

So definitely a huge week for the podcast and I thought it might be kind of cool to follow up with some of my takeaways , some of my personal takeaways , from my conversation with him . If you have not heard it yet , I would definitely recommend it .

Episode 368 , that was the most recent episode , although if you haven't heard it yet , maybe some of these takeaways will prompt some ideas that will make it even more applicable for you as you listen back to the interview with Chris here .

So yeah , that's what I'm running into Just kind of share some additional things that I've really been chewing on and thinking about since talking with him as I re-listened to the episode . Side note , I have to say , as an interviewer , it's kind of interesting . If you're curious , I'll tell you what .

I'll fill you in on a couple of things , if you're curious about number one , how I got Chris on the show , and number one , how it was interviewing him , because I've already got some questions in on what it was like to interview him . I'll say a couple of things on this before I share some of my takeaways .

Number one is that when you're having a conversation , particularly with a guest like Chris Doe , where time is valuable , you've only got a certain window with him Um , everything is amplified in the way of like . I want to make sure that I'm not rambling on too much . I want to make sure that I'm asking good , pertinent questions .

Sometimes I have a few questions geared up that I may or may not ask him , but there's usually some talking points that I want to make sure we cover , depending on the topic , and in this case there were a few things I wanted to make sure we hit on .

Some we got to and some we did not , because it went so fast and with somebody like Chris , who is a professional and a talker in an interview setting , you really don't need to prompt them too much . If you listen to the interview , you know I really only asked a couple of questions in the first almost 20 minutes .

I was able to prompt him with just a couple of questions and he was able to just riff and go for it . So I found , as an interviewer , it's interesting , it's not tricky there's no good or bad with it , but it's interesting because you have to kind of follow the flow of a conversation .

Otherwise it just becomes kind of like a talking head , with just me popping in with an occasional question . So that is one thing that's interesting about interviewing folks who are , you know , somebody of a profile , like Chris Dill and other entrepreneurs who are used to talking is they really don't need much prompting .

So that kind of laid the foundation for some of these takeaways , which is kind of cool , because I didn't really want to have an exact bullet list or like framework to go through . As you know , I like having good , casual , open ended conversations . I don't know where they were going to go , like , I didn't know that we were going to talk about his family .

I didn't know we were going to talk about Microsoft versus Apple . I didn't know we were going to talk about his family . Uh , I didn't know he , we were going to talk about Microsoft versus Apple . I didn't know we were going to talk about Olympic scoring , some of the things that we'll get to here .

So , uh , yeah , that's kind of what it's like when it comes to how to prepare and during these conversations . The other .

The reason I listened back to this one in particular too , is that when you are having a conversation and you're amped up whether you're nervous or , in my case , was more just like a good anxious feeling Cause it's like Holy crap , it's Chris Dell . It's very hard sometimes to focus on what he's saying .

I found this to be the case when I interviewed Amy Porterfield , when I've interviewed Pat Flynn and some of the other mentors that have been in my life as an entrepreneur .

It's just , it's just kind of weird when you are talking to them live , because you're trying to listen but you're also trying to make sure you keep the conversation going and it goes into a good place next .

So , luckily , I've been doing interviews for well over almost six years now five and a half years so I'm pretty used to managing a conversation and a flow , but I just , if you're curious , it is kind of a challenge sometimes because as Chris was talking , I was just kind of like nodding along and listening , like I would be listening to one of his YouTube videos

or something , but then I realized , oh shoot , I gotta make . I gotta make sure I have another question lined up or I feel where this conversation is going . It helps being naturally curious .

Um , I really don't again need too many prompts , but there were a few questions I wanted to make sure we hit on like , uh , what his mindset was and what his background was with money and mindset and stuff like that . So , uh , somebody asked me recently what's it like interviewing somebody like that ?

And I will say one of the most wild feelings is when I opened up Riverside , which is my , what I record podcast through , and I'm just waiting in the backstage in the lobby and then you see Chris Doe pop up and it says Chris Doe is in the lobby . That is the weirdest feeling .

I felt the same way with Amy Porterfield and a few others Derek Sivers , who's one of my favorite authors , mike McCallow , it's . It's so weird when you see their name pop in and it's like holy crap , I'm about to spend like an hour with you . Know this person who is a mentor or somebody I've learned from for years or read from . So it is pretty cool .

It's kind of jarring , like it's , it's a , it's an anxious boost . It's like Ooh , oh , my gosh , christo , his name , that's like the real Christo . So that's always kind of a cool feeling that leads into all that .

So just wanted to share kind of some um behind the scenes on what it was like interviewing Chris Doe and some of the other top entrepreneurs that I've interviewed to this day . Oh and then , if you are curious how I got Chris Doe cause this is a big question I have , actually I had tried to get him a few times in the past .

I had just DM Tim Um , and again , I never let me say this front , I never , ever take a ghost response or a no personally , especially with busy entrepreneurs , because they're busy , they're doing a lot and sometimes people have more interview availability than other times and some people rarely do interviews like I've . I've reached out to Seth Godin several times .

Haven't heard anything . I've reached out to James clear . His team got back to me and said that he's just not currently doing interviews but I could be considered so in both of those cases . Seth is one of the most popular business authors of all time . So I have , I'm not expecting a response . If I get one , awesome .

But I take no offense if somebody is super busy and just doesn't have time to reply or if their team doesn't have to reply . All that to say , with the case of Chris Doe I had reached out through DMs before I hadn't heard anything .

I had reached out to , I think , his team or his main contact page last year maybe Didn't hear anything , but this year it would have been in 2024 , chris and I were actually supposed to be at an event together that got canceled .

So there was a bunch of planning for this event about , about burnout , and it was going to be a live panel with Chris , myself and a few others who have podcasts in the design space , and so I reached back out to his team . I just Googled and found his media or interview availability page With most high profile entrepreneurs and authors .

They generally have some sort of like publicity page or like request for media style page . It's usually hidden , but you can just Google it , or sometimes you can chat GPT and find pro tip industry secret .

Yeah , you can usually find like some sort of request for interview page , and I found that for Chris Doe , or it may have been on his contact page , I don't remember , but anyway I just said hey , I'm Josh . I'm the host of the web design business podcast .

We're now the number one podcast in web design specifically , and I was actually supposed to be speaking alongside Chris with this recent panel that just got a can . So I was hoping to meet him .

Since we're not doing that , I would love to have him on the show and be able to , you know , share his message with my audience and subsequently , I always say , also to promote what he would like to , whether it's a book or a program or a course or whatever .

So his initial team person got me in touch with his direct assistant and then she reviewed my stuff and said , ok , yeah , it looks good . Yeah , chris is down to come on your show . So that's usually how it works . By the way , it was the same thing with Amy Porterfield and others .

To where you usually go through like a first line of defense that , depending if they respond to you , that will usually kick you over to . Typically they're like direct person , their VA or their , their manager of some sort . Uh , most people like Christo , mike Michalowicz and others will have a couple layers to get through . Not everyone does that .

Like Derek Sivers , the author of many of my favorite books he's been on . He's a good friend of Tim Ferriss's and has been on that podcast , which is kind of how , how he , you know , kind of had a bigger claim to fame in this entrepreneur world . He was actually just direct . I just messaged him directly , uh , through his , through his website .

But most people will have a layer or two and then they usually look at the show and then they get approval for the guest and , and you know , in the case of Chris , he was like he must've said like wow , this guy is , you know , incredible and amazing . I would love to come on . I'm assuming that was the conversation that was had .

So that's how I got Chris finally got him on and it was awesome . So a few takeaways I wanted to share here with you in this bonus episode . Again , this is a bonus one . I'm going to be doing more of these bonus episodes . I hope you like I'm going to sprinkle them in .

So there's no episode number on this , but we will link this in the full episode with Christo , which was the last episode at three , six , eight , episode three , 68 . You can find the full episode at joshhallco slash three , 68 for all the show notes and links on that one .

But one thing that was really interesting was how brands view design differently and how they value design differently . He brought up the example and , again , if you haven't heard the interview , this will make more sense as you listen to it or maybe if you want to re-listen to it .

But he brought up the example of a bagel shop and how a designer may see a bagel shop locally that's doing really well , but their design sucks and they may have a different logo on the door , that's on the signage inside and that's on the menu and it drives designers crazy because there's no continuity , there's no brand style guide , but meanwhile the bagel shop

is actually killing it . They just they have such a good product , they have a really good local presence and he was saying that they're not going to value design , like another business who puts a lot of emphasis on design first , or just design altogether .

All to say , it would be a very tough sell to try to convince that bagel shop that they need a new logo , they need a new website , they need to do this . So you're better off just working in that bagel shop that they need a new logo , they need a new website , they need to do this .

So you're better off just working in that bagel shop and then finding another client who actually values your services more .

That kind of led to one of my favorite points from our conversation , which was the idea of Microsoft versus Apple and he was saying that one company would probably invest in the best UX designer , the best developer , the best copywriter and messaging person because they value design so much it's really important to them , of course , that being Apple , whereas Microsoft

would probably be apt to like , there's no continuity . Like , what are Microsoft's colors Like ? I think about the logo , the little windows logo , but there's not really like a brand like there is with Apple as far as the design goes . With Microsoft , when you think about Apple , you think about , probably , their packaging , think about simplicity .

Uh , as web designers , we often think about their sites , whether you love it or hate it , their long landing pages . We think about their typefaces . With Microsoft , I don't know , I'm not a Microsoft user , so you tell me if you are . What do you think of design ? Wise of Microsoft ? Chris said it's probably like a .

You know it looks like a group of , like a board just decided hey , let's use , you know , this font for this one , this color for this . There's really not too much continuity there . So selling design services to Microsoft is going to be way different than Apple .

So , with that idea , when you're choosing your clients and your ideal clients , think about clients who value design and , yes , that's easier said than done to get , but you can also do that by weeding them out on your website , presenting yourself in a way that appeals to people who value design . Thought to consider .

I really liked that one from Chris Pricing for the future , not the past . This was really interesting because when I asked him about how to set revenue targets and goals , he said there's really two ways to go about it . You can look at your past projects . You've done at least the past few .

You can look at what worked well and what worked didn't get a good feel for the scope and the time and then you basically just price to make sure you have enough profit to carry you forward . But that's all based on the past .

The other option is to price for the future Apt idea , considering he is the founder of the future without an E , and he said obviously he's of that mindset .

And Chris's recommendation on that is that you look at the future you want to have and this could be completely big dreams , big hairy , audacious goals , as they say , your H a hag , or it could be , by the way , that's big hairy , audacious goal If you have an H ag . And then the other option is just to think .

I would view this as like thinking big but also thinking realistic , like in my market , in my services , not looking at just what I need to be profitable to survive . But what would that look like if , say , instead of $5,000 websites , we were doing $20,000 websites or $50,000 websites ? What ? What would that look like ?

What type of clients would we need to get to have that ? I thought that was interesting to price . And think about your revenue targets for the future that you want to have , even if it's just completely a daydream . What would that look like ? Because you'll be really surprised and shocked and I teach a lot of my members of Web Designer Pro to do this .

That is way bigger than what you think is possible . You will be shocked at what that will do for you because I've seen a lot of my members have very modest goals which are realistic and attainable . But I'm often telling them like , why don't we double this ?

Because you may think you just want to go for 50 K this year , but if we went for six figures , if we went for a hundred thousand dollars , that's going to force you to do things a little bit different right out of the gate . You might as well do that Same thing when somebody wants to go for $500,000 .

Some of my members who are doing three to four to 500 , they may be a little more experienced typically , but I do have members who are getting to pass six figures and even 200 to a quarter million in a couple of years .

And if you set your goals and your revenue target for a bigger future that you thought possible , even if you don't hit it , you still end up far exceeding your initial goals that you would have done on a lower level .

So long-winded way of saying price for the future Set your vision and set your vision for what you want it to look like , not what you think you need to do . I love that thought and challenge from Chris that kind of led us to Olympic scoring . I haven't really heard about this . This is interesting In the terms of business .

Um , I haven't really looked this up so don't hold me to this , but from the way I understood from what Chris said is that you look at your past 10 projects and if you really want to get a good idea of like where your average price points and ranges should be , take your last 10 projects , knock out the lowest two and then knock out the highest two projects

and then you're left with six . You're left with six . If you add all of those six middle range projects up and then divide that by six , that is your like average price point . So I mapped this out here . I'm looking at my Google doc . I put this out so we could actually do some live math here .

If I have 10 web design projects , a couple were a thousand bucks they were low end , you know , could go for not doing those again . Another project was 2,500 . I did another one for 3,500 . I did two for 5,000 . I did one for 7,500 . I did one for 10K and then I had two really big projects . One was 15 and one was 20 .

So adding all those up together again , minus the bottom two and minus the top two , just the six in the middle , that equal equals 33,000 and some change Now if we divide 33,000 by six , that equals 5,500 . So that tells us that I give you a wide range of projects there , but our average price , our average medium range , is 5,500 .

So if you were to look at this list that I'm looking at with these ranges that are all over the place and have a new starting range of 5,500 , that is going to help you not only weed out the folks who are going to just be looking for a thousand dollar website .

It's going to help you save so much time from that , but it's going to help you move the needle quote unquote in your business forward a lot faster by using this model , because suddenly anything under , say even 5,000 , is just a no-go .

We start at 5,000 now and then , even with those top few projects that come in every once in a while , it's going to fill in the gaps on spending time on the lower ones unless you do something at scale . So 5,500 with this model would be a new range for you . So I would encourage you to try that out .

Take your last 10 projects , list them out , drop the bottom two , the lowest two , drop the highest two and add the rest of them up and divide by six . That's your new starting range to start at . So pretty cool . Thank you , chris , for that idea .

The other thing that was interesting I couldn't really get a clear answer on this , but I think that's because it's personal and that is a set of revenue target based on impact . Now , chris , as you know , is a very impact driven guy .

He has a huge YouTube channel and social media based on his impact of wanting to reach a billion people to help them make some sort of lifestyle freedom through creative work and work that they love , setting a revenue target for that .

Even he said it's good to know your baseline but then to really , instead of thinking about just a number with a revenue goal , what impact would you want to make ? And impact is where it could be very personal to you . It could be how many people you want to reach . It could be , maybe , how many hours you want to work a week .

It could be based off of . Maybe there's a family situation going on that you need more time for and more revenue for . It could potentially be do you want to give to charity ? Do you want to be able to do more in your local community ? It's very hard to do that if you're barely making any money yourself .

So if you are well off financially and actually building wealth through your business and on the personal side , then you're able to do a lot more for your community or for a passion project . So I think it's a good reminder and even he said this particularly those who are killing it A lot of you listening who are in Web Designer Pro .

You are in the killing it bucket and it's an honor to serve you and to see what you're doing and to learn from you . But I'll echo what Chris said , which is you may get to a point where you have to redefine what success means to you .

Maybe it goes from a $500,000 business to I have a certain mission I want to do locally or with my time , and then maybe that means your business target shifts to 750 or even a million , not just because you want to hit seven figures as a vanity metric , but because it aligns with the impact you want to make . So interesting dots .

Not really a clear answer on that and I don't know if there can be , because impact and revenue is so different based off of what it is for you and what season of life you're on . It's going to change constantly .

Side note a little tangent that we went into that was kind of interesting is he was saying that in San Francisco $100,000 is like the poverty line . $100,000 to a lot of people would make an absolute bank .

I talked about one of my students who lives in a small town and she's closing in on six figures and has a hard time doing that because she said she's felt like a hundred thousand dollars always meant that you were rich and you felt greedy .

If you hit a hundred K guarantee , no one thinks about that if they live in San Francisco , because you're just above the poverty line . So it is fascinating how money is just different depending on the location .

A couple of last takeaways here One this was probably one , this is probably my biggest , this is my top which is , if you want to make 10X more than you're making now , if you're at $100,000 and you want to make seven figures , the question you have to ask yourself that Chris , I feel like rightly said is are you willing to be 10 X better ?

Or , subsequently , are you willing to give up 10 X the amount of time of other hobbies that you're doing or something that somebody has established and experiences , chris knows are you willing to give up the 10 X amount of tasks that are not going to get you to that 10 X goal ?

That's actually probably the biggest one , because most of us , as web designers and entrepreneurs , we're stuck in the weeds of our business and it's really hard to give up control and give up these tasks .

But if you want to move the needle quote unquote you're going to have to be the person who is 10X better , and probably not doing the low tasks Not that you're better than those tasks , like I teach in my scaling course . It just means that you need to focus on the big stuff . You focus on the big 20% type of tasks that grow your business .

So good thing to think about . You want to be 10 X , you want to make 10 X more . You got to be 10 X better . And then , finally , my last little takeaway that I took away . This wasn't anything we covered , but it was just something I noticed , and I noticed about a lot of high-end entrepreneurs , high earners in particular . They're all readers .

He mentioned a lot of books and a lot of authors and had them top of mind without even looking anything up . So consider that , consider reading more . This is a good challenge for me , because I'm sitting on a few books , a couple that I started and sometimes I find myself just working on some website stuff when I'm like maybe I should the website stuff .

If it's important , I'll get that done , but it's a good reminder for me personally and I hope it is to you as well to maybe focus on the big stuff and then get to the little stuff later , but the needle moving stuff is often . I don't think it's coincidence that a lot of the people who are the high earners seem to be the readers .

I'll leave you with that . I hope you enjoyed this bonus episode . Friends , again listen to the full interview with Chris Do the last episode , episode 368 . You can get all the show notes and links and I will link this episode because it is a special , just a bonus episode at joshhallco slash 368 .

Hey , if you're enjoying this , if you like me just popping in casually with a few episodes like this every once in a while , let me know , go to joshhallco slash contact . I'd love to hear from you and , uh , I'll be doing some more bonus episodes , whether you like it or not . Moving forward , cheers , guys .