357 - My 2025 SEO Strategy Consult with Michelle Bourbonniere

It not only does it represent the outcome of being a member , but it's also like an identity for people . Now . I mean , you know , like so many people are , they're pros like they feel like a pro , even if they're just getting started . They feel like they're becoming a WebCenter pro .

So I wanted to own that domain name and then for a good year after I bought it , I just redirected it to my sales page for web designer pro , which was at joshhallco . But I always knew that I wanted to have it be on that domain name .

We'll have links to her website in the show notes for this episode , which will be found at joshhallco slash 357 . But the reason I wanted to kind of air this chat I had with her is I am in a bit of an SEO pickle . They're , in short , and this will we're going to cover us to , to to why I wanted to share this with you .

But I have now webdesignerprocom , which is the sales page . Currently it's just a one page website that leads to my membership , web Designer Pro . Now , it's a killer domain name and there's a lot of reasons why I invested $5,000 into purchasing WebDesignerProcom and I'm very glad I did . But the real question now is what do I do with this domain ?

Should it stay a landing page or should it be more ? And if I do this , if I start to put content over at webdesignerprocom , it's pretty easy to create new content over there . But the real question is what do I do with the content over at joshhallco ? Do I move everything over ? Do I move some things over ?

Do I keep joshhallco more of a entrepreneur side of what I do ? And then now all the web design stuff at webdesignersprocom . What are the SEO implications here ? What about my course pages ?

I've got resources right now that are at joshhallco , but it's kind of tricky to send people over to joshhallco to get free lead generators and content but then send them over to webdesignerspro .

As you can see , I've got some SEO pain points and challenges , which is why I wanted to chat with Michelle and I told her I'm happy to just repurpose this chat for you .

There was nothing proprietary that we talked about , so I'm really excited to see how this helps you as you strategize and prepare , whether you have a separate brand that's personal or business or whether you're just curious about what goes into thinking about SEO on this kind of level .

Um , because I'm seven years into building up joshhallco and now that I have a trademarked well , it's currently being trademarked domain name and web designer pro and I have the URL . Um , yeah , there's a lot of things that I'm working on , so I really hope you enjoy this . I would love to hear your thoughts .

For now , at joshhallco slash 357 , where you can share some takeaways and feedback on this one Again , we'll have links to all of the stuff that we went over , including Michelle's website , which you can find now at wordsontherisecom . Absolutely love what she's up to over there , so be sure to connect with her .

Also , put a link into the previous episodes that she's done . If you have not heard Michelle's previous episodes on the podcast , my gosh , they're like must SEO listens ? And she's also done two exclusive trainings inside of Web Designer Pro , so when you join , you'll be able to get access to those as well . But , yeah , I hope you enjoy this one .

Again , I'm happy to repurpose this . We actually did a bit of a hot seat inside of web designer pro . I asked her some questions live in front of the community , and then that prompted , uh , us to be like , okay , yeah , we need to talk about this for more than 10 or 15 minutes . So , yeah , I hope you enjoy this one .

Friends , get all the resources at joshhallco slash 257 . And , hey , as a listener and as a supporter of my brand and maybe as a member of web designer pro , I would love to hear from you , does it make sense to start moving things over to web designer pro ? I have not committed to doing any of this quite yet .

There are a few things that I'm fairly sure I'm going to roll with here in Q1 of 2025 , but I would love to hear from you . What are your thoughts . So hit me up . Joshhundco slash 507 . Enjoy this behind the scenes . Look at my SEO strategy for 2025 . Michelle , thank you for joining on this one .

We are going to do , I guess , kind of a like behind the scenes consultation . Normally we would do this , you know , privately , with a one to one as my SEO strategist , but I figured , yeah , this , you know a lot of the stuff we're going to talk about here is not like proprietary .

I just yeah , I need some SEO help and I'm happy to let everyone in on the strategy session .

Just this new chapter in my SEO strategy because , in short , just to recap what we talked about already , just to kind of lay the foundation for this , I've had Josh Hallco since 2017 . I started that not knowing exactly what I would do with the personal brand .

Originally , as you know , I was thinking about just making child themes and making like plugins , eventually for WordPress and Divi . And then I realized , well , I really like teaching and that's what led me to courses . And then I realized , well , I'm really good at teaching the business side of web design .

And then that morphed into more business resources and eventually turning the membership into Web Designer Pro . Now I have webdesignerprocom and we're at kind of this .

I wouldn't say a crossroads , but we're certainly at the beginning of a new chapter and I'm proactively thinking about the next few years from an SEO perspective on , like , how far do I want to go with saying Josh Hallco versus . My new identity is kind of Josh the founder of Web Designer Pro .

So now I'm looking at like , yeah , the goal of this and to get your insight is to figure out how far do I want to go with using the domain name Web Designer Pro . What do I move over there ? Do I create new content over there ? So that's the foundation .

So , like it's an open question and I think like it's a beautiful time to sit back and decide like , okay , I think it's actually so interesting because if you started out as in transit studios not your personal name then you have a personal name brand that you built up very nicely over the years and now you're back to something else that doesn't have your brand

name associated with it , which is like quite the transition , right , um ? And so , yeah , I think that it's an open question , which is a fun question for me , and I , you know , I specialize in small sites . So now , finally , again , you have a small site , so let's build that thing .

Um , so I have some questions for you to get started , um , because I think like I need to know in order to help you . I need to be able to know , kind of like , where you're at with your decision making and launching a whole new domain at all , and sort of what do you want to get out of it and why did you do it in the first place .

So , like , my first question is just like why did you buy webdesignerprocom Besides the fact that it's a very cool domain and procom besides the fact that it's a very cool domain ? And like what are your plans for it ? Like why did you move web designer pro to its own domain ? What was your goal ?

Not only does it represent the outcome of being a member , but it's also like an identity for people now . I mean , you know so many people are pros . They feel like a pro , even if they're just getting started . They feel like they're becoming a WebCenter pro .

So I wanted to own that domain name and then for for a good year after I bought it , I just redirected it to my sales page for web designer pro , which was at josh hallco . But I always knew that I wanted to have it be on that domain name . Uh , so currently web designer procom is just a one pager and it's just the sales page for web designer pro .

But my thinking now is like because my identity is founder of web designer pro , that's how I'm being introduced , um , of some people , some colleagues and partners of mine have like introed me to to other people and in the email they're like this is Josh , founder of web designer pro .

I'm like , ooh , it's already starting to become my identity , so I feel like to represent that online . That's kind of the jettison of this .

So that's kind of where my head is at is like making it more yeah , more about Web Designer Pro and kind of starting to chip away , moving from just the personal brand and at least the web design side of things being all on webdesignprocom .

This was something that you wanted to move towards and I think also with like I mean , I can understand there might be some emotions there and this is like me playing therapist , not SEO , but like it's your name .

It's really hard to sort of move away from something that's so like your old bread name is your personal name and so I can understand why that you know it's a switch , but it's still your personal name . Like you're not giving up your name , you're just kind of moving your domain over .

So maybe if you want to just like make that division in your own head which is like I am still Josh Hall , even if I'm putting my stuff on Web Designer Pro , and this is very much like the foundational conversation and beginning of a strategy that is going to be years long .

I really want to make that the thing and , as you know , I love now not having a bunch of separate entities with different courses that are all separate . It's nice just to have everything's web designer pro um .

So I'm looking at this at more of like a three to five year vision ahead from an SEO perspective , which I've never really done before and being really intentional about with this .

Like I'm always going to keep joshhallco and it's gonna be a long transition , but I foresee joshhallco being a little more just like entrepreneurial me , as my web printer journey and web design centric stuff is web designer pro um like people are .

I've had a lot of folks , including pro members , wanting to for me to do like a tour of my office and my gear and my setup . So that would be a josh hallco thing . Now if I write about how to get web design clients , that would be a joshhallco thing . Now if I write about how to get web design clients , that would be a web designer pro thing .

So that's kind of where my head is at as I'm envisioning the long-term with this .

So I love that , that you won't have to put everything that you want to do on one domain , that you have a place to put the stuff that's really you , you and then a place to put the business where , which is , you know , this is what your business is , and the fact that you have all of your things bundled into one product now , I think , just simplifies

everything . And I always like to think about you know you have a following already . You have people that follow your podcast , people that are on your newsletter , people that already know you and you know , you know , follow you as a person , um .

But there's also people that are just meeting you for the first time and like anything you can do to make that simple and clear and like that they don't have to sort of figure out your whole story in order to know how to purchase from you .

Um , it just makes sense to make web designer pro the place for it , um , because I think it's just a much simpler thing to explain to people .

So , in a sense , like as you're going to these podcast appearances and people are saying Josh Hall , founder of Web Designer Pro , that's like the beginning of a conversation of what it is that you really specialize in , which I think is just so valuable , rather than , like always having to go through the personal brand to the product , if that makes sense .

It would be pretty easy to start just making some content and moving some pages over to Web Designer Pro . Case in point we just launched the tiers for Pro , so now members have the ability to upgrade and downgrade between the different tiers . Now currently we have a page that directs members on how to do that .

They can go to that page that is on joshhallco . So I would like to put that on Web Designer Pro . So that's the kind of example where it'd be like to put that on web designer pro that you know , so it's . So that's the exact . That's the kind of example where , like , it'd be nice to do that .

And then I'm sure we'll get into like , the nitty-gritty of of like , if I start doing content over there , what about the courses ? Do the courses that are web design today be on web designer pro ? And just , I'm the creator ?

Everything's much more clear now how to do it , and yet people still want to know what's inside your seo course , people still want to know what's inside your business course and right now , the information that they would need in order to figure out what's in that course that I'm considering buying that tier of Web Designer Pro , it's in Josh Hall .

So like I think number one has to be moving the course descriptions , basically the course sales pages , over to Web Designer Pro . Now there's an SEO like , make sure we do that properly , to make sure that know all the links that went to those pages .

All that kind of stuff is is proper , but like I think that the descriptions of the courses themselves , I think those have to belong on web designer pro because that's the only place where they can be purchased um , yeah , so you're not moving back and forth between the two domains , even though , thankfully , your branding is similar that helps .

Obviously , the big pivot for me over the past year and a half is going from one-off course sales over at joshhallco to having them all wrapped up together inside of Web Designer Pro , because it just works for people to have them all together and then they can move up to community and coaching as their , as their business grows .

They need to see what's inside , and so that's why I think that content has to move over . So I think number .

So I mean let's talk short term , like courses , like the courses explanations belong on pro , whether that ends up being a duplication , whether you have it on Josh Hall and on Web Designer Pro , like you could do that as well , but I think that it would make sense to have the course catalog and some kind of explanation of what's inside on Web Designer Pro as

well .

So that would beg the question of like would I bring over a quote , unquote simple WooCommerce store just as a placeholder for landing pages to retain the metadata and all that stuff , or I ?

So for me , I think , as long as you bring the copy over , like the back end of how it all works , and you know the actual how to purchase it stuff , I wouldn't worry so much about that . But bringing the copy over and then , of course , like adjusting it to the new , the new system , right , so of course it does . It's not a product anymore .

So then you know there won't be the same sets of buttons , but making it so that , um , the same level of detail . So , like all the testimonials from everybody who's loved the course , like all those things are really relevant at the course level of detail .

So , like all the testimonials from everybody who's loved the course , like all those things are really relevant at the course level and I think they still belong on , or they now belong on , web designer pro that just makes sense .

But then when you purchase that product it then takes you into LearnDash , which is where the course was housed at joshhallco , one circle added course feature . That's when I moved them over to Web Designer Pro . So currently the listing on SEO on search results is a product . It says product product . That's the post type and it's got you know . Five star review .

Is that you think ?

But also , like , look through , look to click through rates to see , because I know sometimes you know you can put in all the rich snippety stuff that you want , but sometimes google still doesn't show it . Um , so like go make sure that it's actually working before you worry about it . Um and , but that's a really good question .

But I wonder , does , does circle have an ability to like maybe that's where the course descriptions belong is via a part of circle ?

somebody's going to invest a grand into the business course which is what it was previously um , they're really going to go through that page and they may not even look at other courses , they may just be at that page . Now , since the business course is the main course of the of the you know suite of courses , they may scan it faster .

So I'm open to making the course pages simpler , more scannable , brief . So , with that in mind , like that's something I'm open to . But I agree , from an SEO perspective , like the sounds like the easiest way to go about it would be to just have it as a post , like a post or a page on webdesignprocom that has the course .

I'm like , oh , I love that question and like my answer to that question is this , which is right now in Google and in SEO , I think that engagement and traffic matters more than links .

Like , I actually think that having people engage with your site and basically giving the engagement signals to Google that your site really is a legit site , that it's not written by AI , that it was written for humans and there's a real audience for this and the people who read this site really want to be there , like all of those things , those engagement signals

that you're sending to Google are , I think , really really powerful , and the sites that I work on that do the best are the ones that , like , have people staying on the page for a while , and you can see that through Google Analytics or any of another million other tools , and I think that once you have those really strong engagement signals from real humans ,

your site can really take off without like a ridiculous amount of links Like I think that there's more and I think that's how small site SEO should be done .

Um , all of this to say how this ties back , um , is that having enough stuff for people to munch on on your site , like having enough pages on your site , having enough content on your site that it's not just like one page and then take it or leave it , even if it is a really long page , but like to have some more subsidiary content .

And then this is it couldn't just be only the course pages , although it's the course pages will help , um , but having , of course , like also other forms of content , like , you know , blog posts and really informational stuff that really positions you as the expert that you are . Um , I think that , yeah , I mean that's how I see sites .

Like I've started looking into sites that I work on and the ones that have , you know , one and a half minutes , two minutes on a blog post as an average like viewing time . They do better than the ones that have 30 seconds , like it's it's like .

I can put my sites into two buckets and so , like , the quality of your content and the fact that people are really engaging with it is a really strong signal .

And , um , I mentioned this in the Q and a and pro , but also Google um , last year had this antitrust trial and so they had to say a lot of things about how Google works that they kind of didn't want to say , but they had to . Um , and one of the things that came out of that is that the way that they're checking that traffic is Chrome .

Like they have forever said that they're not watching people use the Internet on Chrome , but actually they are , and so basically it doesn't even matter where the where the traffic is coming from . Even traffic they like what they see . Those , I think , are . That's basically how Google tells the difference between spam sites and real sites .

It's almost four minutes which also makes sense because for a lot of reasons it's a big land , it's a big one page . It's kind of like I mean it's , but it's also it's the , it's the consolidation of web designer pro , which I could talk about for hours , each little section consolidated to one page .

So it really is kind of a guide through what you get in web designer pro . Um , so it makes sense , especially if somebody's interested that they're going to probably want to read into it before .

are like I want to find out about this thing , and so then they find out about this thing , and so I think that is probably a lot what's helping you with this relatively new and , you know , a one pager site . That's ranking . That's awesome .

And on top of that , you have people who are searching for Web Designer Pro , because you have lots of people that are searching for it , and then they find webdesignerprocom in the search results and click on it . So , like , you're getting traffic because you are a web designer pro , that's your brand name , and so people are finding it through that as well .

So , just to say , it's ringing really well for web designer pro , um , many of which are people that are specifically clicking for you . But , like , web designer pro is also not only people like you know .

You're probably getting some people to that site that didn't know you personally but actually just searched web designer professional because they were looking for a professional web designer .

We'd retain a little bit of SEO as more of a transition .

But if anything was bringing in traffic , especially if it's bringing in traffic currently , then I would be a bit more like let's leave that page over there yeah , that's why , yeah , I just moving can be like you've done really well with web designer pro , but , like you know , I'm always I'm like the world's most risk averse seo and so to me it's like if it's

not broken , um don't you know , and yet also make sure that it's not getting in the way . You don't want to add friction into your buying experience . So , like um , if it's unnecessary then don't do it , but um . But I do think it's . It's good to have more descriptions of the courses .

It's funny that we're talking so much about the courses um , but to have more description of the courses um on web designer pro just makes like sense yeah , I think this makes sense as like a first phase of this , because the courses are inside of Web Designer Pro .

I mean , the main pieces of this , in short , are the course pages , future content , like upcoming content that are going to be more pillar , like big , meaty pieces that are always going to be referenced to , and um case studies , student successes and wins .

I'd like to start getting those over because I've got like a dozen ready to go almost over at josh hallcom like man , these should really be on web designer pro and then that's most of it . That's most of it there because a lot of my other blog posts and divi tutorials and stuff I'm fine with keeping at josh hallcom .

Like I don't plan on having divi tutorials beyond web designer procom , but that would be where , yeah , like big , meaty business center content would be that feeds right into pro courses , case studies and then also the Web Designer Pro swag . So the pro swag . That's another thing .

Yes , that's at joshhallco right now , so that would be one thing that would potentially be moved . Oh , and then the last thing would be lead generators . So , like my , free sign-up .

They are fully in the stage of starting their business , learning how to get clients , learning their offers , learning their pricing , learning how to run a business . And then there's the growers , which is the second kind of tier , or the second grouping . Those are a little more established . They're either full-time or close to full-time .

They're likely getting to six figures or getting into past six figures . They're more interested in more profit , recurring revenue and taking their business to the next level .

And then there's the scalers , who are the true agency owners and business owners who are more worried about getting their time back , building a team , working on their processes and and really truly baking their business , you know , getting that to the next level . So to that end , there's a free lead generator for each tier .

Okay , the grow one is going to be how to get to six figures . So it'll be very intentional to those who are probably making maybe $40,000 , $50,000 and want to get to six figures . These are the top six steps to six figures is what I'm calling it .

And then scale I basically have a master class that has my top tips from my scaling course on how to scale your web design business your way , and that is going to be the perfect lead generator for , you know , the top tier of pro basically . So those are my lead generators Start , grow and scale .

Well , of course , like everybody does that , but like the actual best way to do it is when you actually managed to rank them for something that somebody is looking for . So like , if you have um , what's a good example ? What's a good example ?

I have a client who does a fertility thing and she has charts so like you need to have charts to do this thing and she ranks for charts . So like , she ranks for charts and then people give them their email addresses because they're actually in the mood for the chart today , because that's what they just ranked for .

So if there's a way that we can find your actual lead magnets to rank for something , then your conversion rate will be through the roof , because you're actually giving people what it is that they want today .

But then , on top of that , of this pillar , content that we haven't really explained but we're planning out , um is is matching each one of those things to a profile . So making sure that you do not waste anybody who's coming to your site , that you're providing them with their next step within the blog post itself .

So I always call this I don't know what these things are called I call them a CTA block , like a call to action block , and the way I tell people is that , like some people sell ads on their websites right , like you can sell ads on your website and it gets inserted within the text .

But like , if you have a website , then it's your prerogative to insert your own ads within the text . And so , like , to make sure that there's a block , not even just a pop up , but like a block that's super obvious within the post . Being like I can help you take the next step .

Here is how and then make that make sure that , like you basically don't publish a blog post without a CTA block that's inserted into the text , not at the bottom but , like you know , closer to the top .

So I'm so glad you mentioned this , Michelle , because this is another reason why I wanted to jump on this , because I don't want to create a bunch of really meaty pillar style content and then not have the lead generators ready or the sequences or the right path ready from an SEO perspective .

So I kind of feel like , well , step one was the offers , the new version of Pro with the tiers . Next step is the URL , the SEO strategy . The next step will be the content creation and the funnels to those . I think you're going to be really excited about this because here's the grand vision . The ending point is the three tiers of pro , the courses tier .

You get access to my entire suite of courses . That's going to be ideal for the builders in that first category . They can have time to go through the courses before coming up to the community and coaching tiers .

The second , lead generator for the grow tips that's going to be a perfect segue into the community tier for Web Designer Pro , because not only do they get the courses but they get the community and , as we know , community support can really help you get to six figures faster .

And then the coaching tier , which is nearing capacity now and we'll be at a wait list but we'll have spots open up , likely every month , a few spots , or every other month at least .

That's gonna be ideal for scalers , because scalers generally are ready to talk to me about like intricate complexities with their business and then they get access to my personal network and then the pro network to hire and to get the people they need and the systems they need to be able to scale their way . So the ending point are the three tiers .

The next level from that would be the lead generators that are going to be perfect for each one of those tiers and then all the content will fit in one of those three buckets , like you said . So there's new web designer content that goes into the first bucket , to the start lead generator , then up to the courses tier and pro .

There's going to be content for folks who want to build recurring revenue and get more profit and make six figures . That's in the middle bucket , that goes to the middle funnel , that goes to the community tier , pro .

And then there is the scaling content , which is going to be about team building time , all that good stuff that goes into the top bucket , scaling masterclass , and then the scaling or the top tier coaching tier .

This kind of all goes back to the quote what gets you here won't get you there , and that's what I realized with my model at joshhallco . That model was really good and it served me well and it served students for a while .

But once I realized that we were all in on pro and I wanted to have the mix of courses , community and coaching and have that available to people at the right stage where they were ready for it To really like to capitalize on it right , I think I've been in pro since the beginning and it's amazing like to capitalize on it right .

But the thing is , is that to have a way in so that people can kind of join when they're at the the spot in their lives to sort of have the right thing ?

Like I think that's what's so great about having access to the courses , and I love that you're providing it in a way that , like people don't have to binge them , they don't have to feel like they have to do all of the courses in one month and then be done with it or whatever .

And then also , like , as you get into the courses , you just like naturally want to meet other people that do what you do and like the community is like an obvious next step for those people .

So like I like how your things are building on each other in a way that just seems very natural , like very much the life cycle of a web designer and like I've seen these people in pros , like I know how well it fits . So like I'm just so excited that you now have a way to really help people at each of those stages .

And then I think that the next step , like you said , I think the next step is is to have content that supports each of those stages .

Right , Because some people will already be ready for community or even for coaching , like they will have just met you , and they'll be already at the sort of community growing type stage where other people are are just like getting their feet wet and figuring out their tools , and these are the people that really need your courses , Anyway .

So I just feel like if we have a set of really helpful like the thing with with the way at least I do SEO , is that like you just need to write something that only you could have written and you've been doing this for so long , that like you have so much experience , like so many stories , so much firsthand stuff of people at each of these stages , and

like I can't write that Like I cannot write in the first person you can , and so to be able to like bring those that real life experience into each of your things like that's just like literally not replicable stuff . Like the stuff that no one else can write , and I think that- .

Like I just feel like these people who are right at the beginning of their business , give them the 50 but then , like , give them something to keep on going . Like do an email sequence that keeps it top of mind because , I mean , one of my best friends is in pro and she's starting her business , so like I know what this feels like to her right now .

So I have my head in the sort of like just launching a business and getting started just because I have a friend that's going through that right now , and like you need to keep on being reminded that getting your first clients is what you got to do , and so it's one thing to get 50 answers all at once and I think that for SEO , that's actually what you

need because that's what people will click on but that's actually really overwhelming for somebody who just right , it's like . So just to say that if you could find a way maybe it's not one a day for 50 days , maybe it's .

So , just to say that if you could find a way maybe it's not one a day for 50 days , maybe it's seven a week for seven weeks , whatever , no-transcript Anyways , just to find ways to like make your lead minutes last longer , if that makes sense Well , the cool thing about that is like that could even be .

So this is almost like not the very first thing a starter needs , it's like the next thing they need . So I'm almost wondering . I love this idea , though maybe the first lead generator would be to you know my start , my guide to starting web design business .

But then when you get that , you also get my 50 ways to get clients as like a almost yeah , like a challenge or a workshop or something that has dripped out .

I think that's so fun .

I mean I could , but , um , that I could foresee being like a pillar piece of content that I'm going to be referencing for years . Um , I mean , I still have videos from 2017 I'm referencing today . So I've learned Ooh , let's make sure we get this ready before you get to .

You know , I mean same thing with books , like you want to make sure your URL is ready before you do a printed book , kind of thing .

But having you know one place on the internet where you do this thing . However , now , like if we're going to take this , I love this idea of the 50 clients , cause it's an obvious , um , you know , ways to get web design clients is is clearly something people need and search on the internet .

Like , I can tell you at least that , um , but now think about how would you flip that to be your middle audience ? How could you like what is it in terms of getting clients that the growers need ? Right , what ?

Yeah , like , instead of going out to new networking events all the time , I can just focus on the people who are like a core referral partner . Out to new networking events all the time , I can just focus on the people who are like a core referral partner .

So there are things that , as , as you very well know , in pro , people at every stage gain from , but there are like some common challenge like , for example , recurring revenue . Before a beginner gets there , they just need to know what their offers are and they need to know how to get clients before they focus on recurring revenue .

So , um , yeah , so I definitely think like some of these are going to be interchangeable , but primarily , yeah , better clients , high paying clients , recurring revenue those are the things I can almost imagine like a matrix of like the main topics in web design and your profiles , and they're like okay , where's the intersection ?

Like , because you know this audience so well and you work with these people all the day in and day out , and then you go find what are the words that they're using when they're having that problem on the internet , and then you sort of match those two pieces together .

So you have your amazing idea with the leads and then , like , we optimize it so that it so that it finds its audience right , so that it's not just like something that you publish on the internet and Google doesn't understand that actually , google sends traffic to this page when people that need that thing want it .

Um , and so I think that's where , like , google can be a really good matchmaker for you to to really just broaden your . I mean , that's's the . That is the promise of SEO , right ? Is that it can introduce your brand to people that haven't heard about it yet , because they're just not a podcast person .

You know like they never listen to podcasts and so they're going to get into them after they find your brand . But like it can be a visibility thing .

I'm much like YouTube , much like social media , but it's just another way to get visibility for your new brand and it just makes sense , because you just launched a new website , that it would make sense that you want that brand as well to get some visibility , and I love all the visibilities at joshhallco .

As to how this would feed in perfectly with the new tiers of pro , with what I talked about the tiers , the lead generators , and then the pillar pieces of content , which I almost feel like any ongoing content , newsletter , smaller videos , things like that . I could just keep a josh hallco , but all those would direct to the pillar content at web Designer Pro .

That's where everything goes to .

Like if it works , it works . Rocking it so much that they had to stop writing because it was you know , seo is a fire hose , like if it works , it works .

Meanwhile , I'm over here like a freaking hamster trying to kick out newsletters and podcasts , which are all great and are all beneficial , but I don't have those like yeah , the pillar pieces of content that are free for everyone , that folks can get to , backed up now by a perfect lead generator and then that's going to guide them to where they should start inside

of web designer pro .

I look back to your elegant themes , blog posts we are excellent , and so , like you just need to write stuff .

I've been , I've been telling you this for years , but stuff like that , but on your own website , would do so well , like people on the internet really need this stuff , and so , like you're already doing a fantastic job with audio and with video and you are a really good writer , but most of it's right now in your newsletter and so , like just some of it ,

some of it needs to be available .

I mean , there's been times over the past year where I'm like , oh , should I just stop the newsletter , like it's friday night and I gotta , I gotta format this , and I've have found myself working on like saturdays and a couple sunday mornings I'm hustling to like button a few things up , like I didn't want to get myself into that position , but it has been so

helpful . And every time I'm thinking about backing off the newsletter , somebody inevitably sends me a note . That's like I'm addicted to , like I look forward to Sunday mornings just to get your newsletter . I'm like , oh , that's so great .

I love the responses to me , like I mean , in a world where most of the ways that you connect with your audience are either mediated by algorithms in a way that is really not healthy for anyone , so like , social media is not my favorite place , so there's that , or it's very one way right , like when you're doing a podcast or when you're doing YouTube , like

there's less like the back and forth or like the real human back and forth . So to me , having a newsletter as well .

what I love is the replies , Like I love knowing that I'm sending a real email to people that I really know and then just some of them reply to me with like hilarious , you know , like I sent an email out once about um , uh , like , uh , a shower , uh , waterproof shower paper for collecting ideas while you're like .

you know , I get all my best ideas you wouldn't believe how many people wrote me back and were like , tell me more about what your favorite pen is , because I had put a little thing in there being like every month I find a new favorite pen and then they're like but what's your favorite pen now ? I want to know .

So , like the real back and forth with people I think is the funnest part about a newsletter and that that's what keeps me going is that like it's real communication and it's not mediated by an algorithm , and I just love that .

Because I'm Josh , founder of Web Designer Pro , I can still have that as a video on webdesignerprocom with the blog post , but it can also live on joshhallco or I'm . You know I'm so that's kind of my personal brand , so totally .

They were each little videos and blog posts to help my clients and that was it . I did have a separate blog . I started occasionally , but the resources were just like , yeah , like a dozen resources . So that's how I envision the quarter blog .

And that's where you're , and then also that gives you the freedom to , like you know you're a web designer that gives you the freedom to make resources that actually just have really high production quality as well , like if it needs an infographic , make an infographic , like if it like , lay it out , don't just write a blog post , but like , make it .

And then , of course , you can embed your videos and , like you know , make it like a great place to be on the internet , which will also help your engagement .

If you want to be the next sam , for example , although sam is already scaling , so he's , you know , the eagle who went through all he's all over here is all . It was a year yeah , sam , freaking wild man , awesome , um . So like he . But like somebody in that journey I could say , like this is going to be a great place for you .

Here's a free lead generator . Here's a blog post . Here , here's the guy to start getting or start your business . Here's 50 ways to get clients . And then the middle person who had a business Mark , for example , who had an established business , but Mark Hyatt is now at a different level . He would be a prime success story for the middle tier .

And then folks who are scaling my gosh some of those are going to be great for as a success story and say , like this is perfect for you , here's my masterclass on scaling . Here's a couple resources not blog posts resources for you .

story and kind of be like , oh yeah , I'm kind of in that position , like maybe Pro is for me , like I think that those are really important pieces for people to see , especially like in the world of the internet where , like , there's a lot of fakeness that goes on and like Web Designer Pro is not fake and it's important for people to know that like it's

really a community of people .

I think that that makes sense , whether you call it a testimonial sorry that that makes sense , whether you call it a testimonial , sorry whether you call it a a case study or not , like just you know , community stories or like member stories or something like that , so that people can like work their way through the stories of people building their bug design

businesses , which is very relatable yeah , no , I really like that , and each one of them could be in that kind of category of a starter , a builder , builder or a scaler , because there's plenty of starters who have a success story .

So I think maybe that's the thing every resource and every , every success story , every sort of case study that you present , like have them slotted into so that you know who they're for , and then that can just like help your content planning going ahead and it can also help make sure that you're sort of balanced .

That you're you're you're presenting for each of the different groups of people thoughtfully , maybe not equally I don't know if they need to be 100% equal , because there's always going to be more people at the beginning stages than at the end stages but at least so that you make sure that you're creating content for everybody at every stage and kind of doing that

purposefully and thoughtfully .

That feels like a good , solid plan to me , far as like what's put on web designer pro , the course pages , the some of the hidden pages now , like the upgrade , downgrade faqs , few other things like that in a contact form like all the real basics of a website , to make sure that , like , if they're there and they have questions , they know how to get in touch

with you , stuff like that pillar . Pillar content , which again so lead generator . So , so , lead generators , uh , case studies , few new pillar content that I plan out , and then , um , the course pages . Those sound like that's what that would be . The first version of web designer pro , which would eventually web designer procom .

Would be , with all those things combined , probably a like 20 ish page website , something like that and I love having smaller websites because there is something .

Is that , like we don't have a lot of pages that aren't driving traffic , Like all of them were intentional from day one , and so the average quality of each page on your site is actually really high because you're not spreading yourself thin .

And so I think , like if you only put on new pages kind of thoughtfully and , you know , with a real goal either a business goal or an SEO goal I think that that can really help . You know , keep this domain as like the place for people to learn about web design businesses .

Like I think that's the key thing and it's , I mean , it's easy for you at this point because you know that's what you do . Um , and so the the , the bar for it becoming a page on this new site should be like is it about web design ? Like the business , not , you know , newsy stuff ? Or like and is it evergreen ? Yeah , Maybe , that's the other piece of .

It is like is it , is this going to stand the test of time ? Is this kind of a forever piece of content ?

If I completely drop any of my web design centric stuff at JoshHallco and it's just all at Pro , then maybe that would be a little more robust . But like when I did the circle videos recently on youtube , those have taken off . Like if you search circleso , have you done that at all ?

Um , long , long term , I'm having so many questions about community building and memberships and courses Long , long term . I'm having so many of these conversations . I'm like I would love to talk more about this . You know me , I like to talk about what I'm doing right now . So I'm actually doing way more community building and online courses and memberships .

So I could absolutely eventually see JoshHallco being kind of a split between community builders and course creators . Here there's some resources and then all my web design stuff is here at webdesignersprocom . That's kind of the long , long term goal . Love that For joshhallco , as I'm thinking about it .

And they're asking me about Circle because they want to do like a monthly Q&A with clients or they want to have a client forum or some resources . I'm like , yeah , you can 100% do it in Circle . Here's my Circle video .

So yeah , all that to say like I've intentionally dipped my toe into this because I'm a Circle fanboy , because it's what I do day in and day out now as a community builder and because I've partnered with circle to create those videos , so it was , they were sponsored videos . So I was like hell , yeah , I would love to do that .

So all that to say like that is proof that like I can do that and I could start to come up , you know , for the ranks for community building . So that's kind of nice to to have that as an additional Avenue .

I have no , I by no means am I going to start opening the can of worms of being a community builder industry expert , but if I can get pro to the point where everything funnels to the pillar content , those lead generators . I have the offers . Pro is very sustainable for me now .

Then I can experiment with joshhallco and have that more be about me as an entrepreneur webpreneur and I could do like if I wanted to do a tutorial on Canva , which I've done , if I want to do a tutorial on , you know , like , my office home setup , I could do that and it's a little more entrepreneurial .

She really came through and worked with me on the tiers and got all these automation set up and it's just a total whiz . She's kind of like tech support now for pro . So would she have the support at Web Designer Pro ? Is it WDPcom for short ? Oh my goodness .

Imagine signing up for something and saying , yeah , I think I do want to blah , blah , blah , do this web designer pro thing . And then the emails are coming from like a different company and you're like I don't know about that . Like yeah like if for just that . I think like you don't want to add that amount of confusion into .

But I agree that at the very least it might be worth having least like support at webdesignprocom that , and then it could be mass , like we could still use the josh hallco email . But it could . We could mask it as web designer pro . I know you could do that again . That's a amr conversation . Here's our email and domain guru and pro .

Yeah , um , but yeah , that's one thing I thought of too is like again , I knew this would open up a bunch of can of worms , so I'm like now I've got to start thinking about the email and support along with this , within stages .

You know , like one piece of content , a quarter , like nothing , not you know , if you're only aiming for 8 , 12 real like meaty pieces in this resource section . Like you don't need to do them all in one month .

Yeah , zebra site studios . Thank you , better listener than I am . Uh , he has that for his , his niche website , so it's like a brand under his personal brand . This is the way to to go about it , yeah .

So you should have something like that on Web Designer Pro , where it's pretty easy for people who just don't know which tier is for them , so that you don't have them guessing that they can find they can talk to you and say oh , okay , here's your situation . Okay , I would recommend this one .

It's like hey , you paid me , here's the limo , here's direct service . Haven't paid me yet ? Wait in line ? No , but that is , yeah , it would be a lot simpler , for sure , to just have a contact form on Pro .

I'm going to release it , because there's a lot of things I've released and I'm like man , I wish I would have had a better funnel for that . As much as I hate to be all marketing and funnel-y , I've got some videos . I mean , my migrating WordPress video is the number one still For years , and I just I had no like .

I do have a cPanel course I mentioned in the description , but I could update that with like . If you want help with your business , here's here's where to go . And on generalized content that could be applicable to everybody , I can say here's a free guide to help start your business . Here's a free guide to help you grow to six figures .

Here's a free guide to scale on that . That isn't like a direct category of those .

We know people are searching that , um , so in that sense , you write the content you do really well , but there's you don't necessarily have to do what I like to think of as like a content upgrade right at launch .

So like once you've launched a site and once your site is really humming along and you have five pages that are like all the traffic is coming to these one five pages , that's where you start making like like specific lead magnets that are the next step for that particular thing .

So this idea that we had about making like a , an email sequence or a challenge that's associated with the 50 ways to get clients , maybe that you only launch after it's already getting a decent amount of traffic , so like when you know that there's eyeballs on it , so that there's people that are already seeing it , so you could launch the actual thing , get it

ranking and then add the sort of content upgrade . That's like the perfect fit thing for that person who just searched that .

I saw him , he's local to me , so we gosh I think we connected in 2020 . And I saw him kind of build similar to what I did , almost like a personal brand , and then have a brand name that evolved and changed to Creator Science . And what he did , which made me really jealous in many ways , was just put everything under creator science .

So creator science is the podcast , it is the newsletter , it is his content , but his membership is the lab . So it is different . It's not the creator science membership . Um , as much as I like that , I think it would be confusing to have , like the web designer pro newsletter , web designer pro podcast , because it's already a private podcast feed for members .

Yep , um , so part in web design business podcast .

community because otherwise it might lose its , lose its it's that's a good point .

I mean , how many people have recently joined and said like I'm so excited to be a web designer pro now , that's been one of the coolest things I've seen recently well , uh , liz , my friend who's now like in the beginning stages of launching her business .

The podcast will remain there unless I ever decide to put that on its own domain as the web design business podcast . My newsletter is still going to be me , which I kind of like that too , because I might start making my newsletter a little more .

I'll direct it to Web Designer Pro , but there are some times where I just have like general entrepreneurial tips and advice that apply to web designers . So I think that's what my my newsletter is going to be . I may even rename my newsletter just Josh Hall's newsletter , I don't know .

Instead , newsletter just josh hall's newsletter , I don't know , instead of it being web biz weekly , which it is now , which I would be happy to drop . It's kind of hard to say and I don't people aren't really identifying with that necessarily .

So , um , yeah , it might just be the josh hall newsletter for a while , I don't know but but I do love I mean I love your newsletter .

But also , like it is nice to have something that's yours , right , like I can understand , like being too hemmed in just as a human being , like if everything in your life is web designer pro , that might just feel a little stifling , and so it makes sense that you still have some outlets for , like you know , your whole personality , like the whole person .

Um , it makes sense .

But you know , um , I'm excited to see it happen in the world and , like I always , you know you got to do some of it in order to make it rank um , but I think you can probably like really rock these new tiers with content to support them . I'm just like excited to see it happen .

It's actually using the beta theme , but because it's a one page or I don't have any other plugins , it hasn't been an issue and I have a fallback plan God forbid , but I am . I am not risk averse , so yeah . So I think Chris was like , dude , did you seriously launch Web Designer Procom with Divi 5 in beta ?

And I was like that's right , yes , I did West side . So course pages , course pages first . So course pages , course pages first .

I gotta change the menu and figure out what the pro the landing page is going to be or the homepage is going to be . So no , you're totally right . What do you think Should it should be ?

So it's like you're you're hosting a party and people are coming in and you want to say like , oh , like , if you're interested in a great conversation , head over here to the living room and if you're interested in joining web designer pro , I have a page for that .

So , like , your homepage just needs to act as a wayfinding tool to the stuff that's on the site at any given moment , and so , like at the beginning , I don't think that's a very complicated wayfinding tool , because you've got the courses , you've got the membership .

Probably the merch is going to have its own page , um , if nothing else , because people can purchase it , um and so I know that's going to be like .

If you want to find out about web designer pro , go to the web designer pro page .

So , priority list homepage , which would be kind of more the directory to to everything there , um , hidden pages , which just right now are like my page on well , contact , upgrade , downgrade , that kind of thing , basically like administrative pages kind of , and I could do privacy accessibility statement , terms and conditions I would need to get a new one there , need

to see if Hans and Donato a term again will give me another privacy policy option . So again , this is where it's like for anyone who's listening to this , like yeah , it'd be no big deal to just move over some things with new websites Like well , hold up , hold up A lot of different moving parts here .

Even with a quote , unquote , simple website that could be 20 pages is now we're actually looking at 25 to 30 , maybe even more so . The sales page for pro , the membership page , the course pages , courses pages , um , swag ideally at least a page for swag that I could eventually move over from josh hallco .

That wouldn't be the end of the world , um , and then the lead pages , the lead generators , signups I'm gonna give you another one testimonials , like clients , yes , case studies , yep duh , I was a new , I was missing something , because I've got new content the lead generators signups .

So again , this is like the foundation . It's all about this , because this is going to dictate everything I do , moving forward with how I market it and promote it . So case studies which , like I said , I already have like a dozen at joshhallco that I haven't promoted yet .

But I'm happy to make this public because this is the kind of thing that needs to go into an SEO strategy when you're thinking especially if you have a personal brand and a business or a wing of your business and you're thinking through these complexities .

So like I just recently you don't even really know this , but I just recently launched a thing which is an SEO strategy package , because I think SEO is learned in the doing . Like you can watch a million courses on it , but like it gets real when you're talking about a site .

And so like I do something very similar to this with clients where they can sign up . I research the site , I come up with , like their next best three actions .

We don't always make a one year plan , but to actually like everybody's SEO strategy needs to be different and it's great fun for me to come up with them , especially if I don't have to do all the implementation .

So just to say that like I think that anyone who's scared of SEO , who's listening to this and I know that's a lot of people like it's learned in the doing . Like just do it with a fun site that you care about , that you want to grow , that you want other people to find it on the internet , and like it's very doable . Um , yeah , just do it .

I didn't have to do this but , as I mentioned , with this vision over the next few years here , both short term and long term I knew that this was the time to think about this and , like we mentioned , I have all this like pillar content . I'm ready to get going on . I'm like I don't want to do it until this is ready , so I got my priority list .

This strategy has been super fun . You're inside . I mean , I needed this sounding board to make sure I was on the right track , and you've given me a lot of additional things to think about with this and , yeah , I'm freaking pumped . So thank you , because I'm pumped .

Thank you for all you do for pro . I mean , you are a huge selling point to pro when people join you're like oh my gosh , michelle , so I love it in there , don't go anywhere . I'm not going anywhere , like I gave up all social media and I'm only in pro , so you've got me . Yeah , I was going to say I need a testimonial from you .

Friends , it was fun to do this kind of chat , which would normally be behind the scenes and off air , but again , there was nothing proprietary here that we talked about , so happy to share this with you . I hope this has helped you out .

Whether you are a personal brand and you have a business brand , or whether you have multiple businesses or brands online , or if you're just curious about what goes into this kind of SEO strategy , I hope this helps you . This is the kind of thing you can do for clients , by the way .

So I would love to hear your thoughts on this one Again , as a listener of the show , as a supporter of me , or as a member of WebCenter Pro , or maybe as a legacy student who has purchased one of my courses in the past . I'd love to hear from you . Go to joshhallco , slash 357 . Until that URL changes .

No , I don't know if I'm going to change the podcast , but I'd love to hear from you . I really , really would . I very much value your insight as well , because ultimately , this is for you , to make it easier for you on where to go , now that I have two domains online joshhallco slash 357 .

Again , we'll have links there to Michelle's stuff , including her website or past episodes . Do yourself a favor and connect with her . And if you really want to connect with her , join Web Designer Pro , because that's where , as she says , she's , is . She doesn't even need social media because she's in Web Designer Pro . She's one of our most engaged members .

Actually , I think she's second . I think she's our second most engaged . Let me look at the leaderboard real quick . I think she may be . Circle now has a leaderboard function . She is all time number two . She's all time number two , uh , engaged member of web designer pro . So , my gosh , it's just another value add to join pro .

You get access to michelle who , as you can see , is just freaking awesome . That's why I'm so glad to have her in my corner for the SEO side of things and much more . So check her out and again , show notes . Joshhallco slash 357 . Thanks for joining . Can't wait to hear your feedback and I will see you on the next episode .

We're going to have some fun together as we wrap up 2024 .