Breaking Free from Traditional Finance with Chris Miles

Chris left the industry to become a passive real estate investor and was able to retire when he was only 28 years old . Since then , he has diligently taught hundreds to do the same thing he's done . Become work optimal , he calls it where you have enough passive income to work by choice . Chris , welcome to Latinos and Real Estate Investing Podcasts .

It is my pleasure to have you here , sir , Same here , so excited to be on hey brother . So why don't you tell us a little bit about this journey ?

Tell us about this anti-financial advisor you call yourself and how you came about that , how you got started , and just tell us this journey and the story , how you realize and I have my own thoughts on that Excited to have you on until we can unpack it For sure how you started and how did this whole thing come about .

They taught me great values , but the one thing that they didn't really teach me well was money . Now , my dad had talked about being cheap , right , like save everything , try not to spend anything and just pack it all away , right . But the problem was this is that my dad , growing up , it was always about , hey , we can't afford this . What do you think ?

Money grows on trees . I'm not made of money , you know , you hear those kind of phrases growing up , and so it wasn't really a very abundant type of lifestyle when it came to it . Even though we're middle class , still there was always this feeling of lack when it came to money .

So I vowed I didn't want to be like that , and so when I was going to college , I realized I want to be a business owner .

I want to take control of my own finances , my own time , freedom and things like that , and so , as I did that , I actually dropped out of college with one class to go , and I thought let's find a business to get some more experience and then maybe I can go back to college .

Well , the business that I found that kind of intrigued me was being a financial advisor . I didn't realize at the time that they take anybody off the street as long as you can , and what has to test is 70% and not have a criminal record right , and as a result , you become a financial advisor too . So you don't have to be a financial expert to do this .

So I did that for several years and then , after a while , my dad said Chris , will you go to a financial advisor me ? So I sat down with him . He opened up his finances for the first time in my lifetime . He'd always been very hidden with his money and he opened up his finances . He said Chris , I'm 61 years old , I want to retire . How could I do it ?

I looked at his finances and , to my surprise , I said dad , here's the deal . Even though you've been stuffing that 401k , even though you paid off all your debt early , you better hope you die in five years if you try to retire today , because that's when you'll run out of money . And he said well , I don't want to die that soon .

Well , what else can I do ? I said I don't know . You did everything right , everything that I taught as a financial advisor . You did right .

And remember , I didn't want to follow the same path as my dad , but then , seeing what the path he was on which was the same path I was on as financial advisor because I thought I should just stuff money into my mutual funds and then someday I could live off of maybe $60,000 a year if I'm lucky , right , if I save up a couple million bucks and it really

bugged me because I was on the same path as he was and I saw my future . And I also realized that my clients were all in the same place too , because my clients , even the ones that were retired , still worried about running out of money . They didn't know if their money would last them for their life .

And it became apparent to me because my friend , who actually left my financial business to go do real estate investing with his dad , he was happy as a clam , right , he was happy as could be . And he told me . He said , chris , well , how many of your clients are truly financially free , where they don't worry about money ? I said none .

He said , chris , well , how about this ? How many of you guys , as financial advisors , are financially free ? Not off the commission's priority , but doing these mutual fund investments ?

As I really was honest with myself and I knew there's over a hundred guys in my office and I was looking around and there were guys that have been working there since the late 1970s , yet they couldn't retire either . And that's when I realized I said , well , none of them . None of them could retire or financially free .

So , chris , that's the problem you have right now . And so it led me down a path of real estate and alternative investments and focusing on passive income and cash flow , to the point where I had to quit being a financial advisor . I couldn't stay teaching something that I knew wasn't working . It had been proven .

I had already seen it in my clients' lives , financial advisors' lives . Nobody was becoming financially free , not because they were bad investors , but because that system is broken . And so I went down instead the real estate route and following passive income , and next year I was 28 , almost 29 years old .

I was able to become work optional , where I could work because I want to , not because I had to , because I had enough passive income to pay my bills .

I used to work for a life insurance company and when I first started and yes , I know exactly what you're talking about you see these older guys selling insurance , selling financial services products , that they're broke and just the numbers don't make sense . What was your biggest takeaway ? When you look at your dad , what was it that you learned ?

That gave you that wake up call ? Because you alluded to five years . Why don't you talk to that to the American people ? Or just when they think about their retirement plan and what that looks like ?

The problem with the whole mainstream financial advice today is it's overpromised , under delivered , it's all based on faulty numbers . Right , the numbers are wrong if they run .

And I kind of got to and that's the thing leading up to when I met with my dad , which was towards the end there I was already starting to question what I was being taught as a financial advisor , because I realized that I was really just a salesman in a suit , that these companies that trained me were all financial institutions training us how to sell their

products . Right , and remember , I was a financial advisor during Y2K , so when that got hit , it got hit hard . I remember talking to guys that used to work for Enron Before Enron went bankrupt . They lost literally millions of dollars in the retirement plan overnight because they had dumped all their money into that company stock Right .

So I saw the ugly right in the beginning of my business and I'll tell you like . So here's some of the faulty assumptions you hear . A good example is if you ever heard the guy named Dave Ramsey , right , you know , ramsey's show is a very popular finance show . Many people follow that Ramsey is full of crap . Okay , I know . Yeah , I mean , now I get it .

He's a good guy , I know . He actually teaches some good things , especially if you're broke , right , if you're trying to learn about money , he does teach some good concepts about budgeting , right , and how to manage your money a little bit .

So the problem is is when it comes to investing , he teaches something very different than what he actually does himself , because he's made all of his money , his hundreds of millions , his couple hundred million dollar net worth comes from real estate and his business and that's it , not from the stock market . He just plays and dabbles in the stock market .

So he's telling everybody throw your money in mutual funds . He's telling them to do something he hasn't done himself to create success . Right , and that's what I find it , because you know , for example , he has a .

He often will post things like saying you save a hundred bucks a month for the next 40 years you'll have $1.176 million , right ? Well , first and foremost , he based that on a 12% return on the stock market . The stock market has not returned 12% long term . The average of the S&P 500 for the last 30 years right now is about 7.75% . That's it .

7.75% , not 12 , not even 10 . 7.75% On top of that , you know , by the way , when he did those numbers they weren't even right . He's just saying like $1,176,000 you'll have after 40 years , saving a hundred bucks a month at 12% . I ran those numbers on a calculator . You can too . It comes out with $979,000 . So he can't even do the math , right .

He's $200,000 off , right ? So he screws up on the math and he over promises on a return . If you actually put that down to like 8% , you'll find that you only have like $400,000 , not almost $1.2 million . You have a third of it , even though you've got just a few percentage points off . That's the problem with guys like Dave Ramsey and financial advisors .

They're no different . I mean , they see the numbers and I know because if you are in it long enough , you see the numbers , and if that's not proof enough , I'll tell you once a year I go to like a financial advisor , kind of like this study group , right ? Very intimate group of people , usually like 30 or 40 financial advisors .

These guys all make millions a year in their business Not in their investments , but in their business . Hands down , at least once . Because I'm the one guy that shows up in shorts and a t-shirt , just like I'm wearing today . Right , you can't see my shorts , but I can show off my leaks later for you at the family barbecue .

But it's interesting because I'll be the one guy in shorts and a t-shirt , while some of these guys are wearing suits , even among colleagues . But then one of them will always pull me aside each year and say hey , chris , so you got to be financially free . Can you teach me how to do that , because I'm not there ? Nice again .

Visor dollars , financial visors the best of the best . Still there's at least one . If they swallow their pride enough many of them won't , but they swallow the pride enough will say how did you do that ? Because I , I haven't been able to retire , I can't quit because they have to rely on the commission's coming in there .

Make millions from their business , not from their investments . That's an important point . Find , find out who you're listening to , because many people will listen . People that make a lot of money in their jobs or business , even like and I'm like you know , somebody does wholesaling or flipping in real estate , that's great . You can make millions there .

I have a lot of friends in the in the wholesaling and real estate flipping game . Although they make millions , if they were to stop that business today or if the government said , hitter your dog and I don't need to do anymore , they are broke . There is broke . Is that every other American out there ?

Because they haven't also created multiple streams of passive income ? That is the difference . And that's the difference between what financial visors teach and what I teach today is that financial visors teach Accumulate money , build up that big nest egg , for example . I taught that for myself .

My personal goal was if I could , by the time I was 40 years old , save up two million dollars in my mutual funds , hoping that the market smile on me .

Just right , fill up two million dollars there , so then I can live on three percent a year , because that's the new number , that financial Well , it shouldn't be new , but it's becoming more popular now among financial visors because the old four percent rule doesn't work anymore .

There's been too many simulations that've proven that the four percent rule worked back in the 1970s , but not today . Now they say you should only pull out three percent of your money . Well , two million dollars , live on three percent , sixty thousand a year . Twenty years ago I thought that was a lot of money . I thought that was a comfortable lifestyle .

$5,000 a month that's not so comfortable today . Is it because of inflation ? And so there's a . That's another headwind you've got here . Here's what I'll tell you when I've run people putting money into 401ks with the match .

Whatever you put in per year into a 401k given that 401k funds don't actually perform as well as the stock market anyways Whatever you put in per year , that's pretty much what you'll live on per year after inflation .

So if you match out your 401k at $20,000 a year with your employer , you will be living on a 20,000 year lifestyle based on traditional financial planning . That's the problem , and most people that's with a match . Imagine if you didn't have the match is even less . That's the problem .

So the answer is focusing on passive income and cash flow , like what Robert Kiyosaki talks about rich , dead , poor dad . He just doesn't teach you how to do it . How do you create passive income ? So give you example . I had a client out of California he had . He was one the rare few that had a million dollars in his retirement plan .

I just so you know how rare that is Fidelity fidelity has the biggest 401k pork of like clients of anybody . Right , they have the biggest , the biggest business in the 401k realm . There are about 48 million Users that have 401ks in fidelity . Of that 48 million , at the end of 2022 , only 299,000 had one million dollars or more .

Wow , that's less than 1% had over a million dollars saved in their 401k . Now , remember Dave Ramsey said it was easy just save a hundred bucks a month and you'll be there . Right , it's not that easy because that's a big fat lie . So the truth is is that people most of already hit millionaires . So this guy was one of the 299,000 .

He had a million bucks and you know his financial advisor said he said , alright , this is good , you can pull out 3% a year . That's $30,000 a year . You live on as a millionaire . That's below the poverty line . You're living as a broke millionaire . He came to us and we said listen , you can go in the alternative space .

There's lots of options here , like turnkey real estate . You can buy some duplexes here . You , there's . There's things like , you know , oil and gas you can put money into . There's apartment syndications . You can put your money and lend it to other real estate investors , get paid a certain return of it , usually at least 10% a year , minimal at you know .

As he started to see all those options he started to do , he started diversifying those different areas . His Million now wasn't paying him 30,000 a year . Now is earning him 130,000 a year and Somewhat with tax advantages because a real estate and things like that . So that's the difference , right , you can take the same money and give it to work harder for you .

So you have to work so stinking hard for it .

So I just took notes , because you mentioned Ramsey or you know , I've heard this before and I agree with this statement Ramsey , dave Ramsey , teaches poor people , he speaks to poor people , so that's right . He resonates with poor people . Don't stay out of debt , don't buy a car unless you could pay a cash . This is all the crap that he tells you .

Which is this sound if you have no Financial literacy at all , if you have no baseline ? They ? I used to resonate with that . Then you got Susie Ormond . She talks to the middle class people . And then you got guys like yourself , myself , kiyosaki that are talking more high-level stuff like what's cash flow ? How do you create cash flow ?

Where , while you're sleeping and you're putting up your money to work for you so that you don't have to worry about keep , protect the golden goose and let that produce for you every month , month , in a month , I'm right . But so you said something real key , which I love that you said is focus on cash flow .

Right , you said focus on cash flow , and I think that's the key . You got a lot of gurus out there that talk about real estate , for instance , and they focus on Appreciation and I that's a bad . That's for me , my opinion , that's a bad bet , because markets have cycles , like right now . We're gonna be going into a down cycle .

We're seeing it with the commercial , commercial space and there did we're good . If you were betting on appreciation , you're in trouble , right . And when I started buying real estate and I got clear on all this and I started learning about money really and I was like , yeah , I need to focus on get becoming financially free . You call it optimal work .

Well , it , optional work is what you call it . I need to focus on that . Nothing else matters to me , nothing else . I don't care about appreciation . I don't eat that . My family and we pay the mortgage with the cash flow .

I put food on the table with the cash flow and if I could get enough of that to surpass what I spend every month , now I become free .

So my question for you is , if there's an American listening to you or whoever around the globe listening to you , and they have Some money and some IRAs , 401ks , pensions and I'm not against those things at all , by all means is me personally . I'm not against them .

I just see them for what they are , and I know that there's way better options for you out there . What would you tell them ? You're not a financial advisor . You're not here as a financial advisor . Neither am I . If you were , that person had two , three hundred thousand . Or your brother came to you and said , hey , I have two hundred thousand in this 401k .

What are you telling them ? How are you telling them to deploy that money ? How would you tell them to move it ?

Now , a 401k is great , if potentially great , if You're looking to retire after the age of 60 and that's assuming the government doesn't change the rules on you in the meantime , which they can do at any moment and you have no say in the matter right , they really have control

of your money in that process . Now , if you're somebody says I would , I would like to have the option to retire before I'm 60 , well then , why put your money in a place and we'll let you touch it till then without giving you a 10% penalty ? Right ? This is gonna slap your hand for touching your own money .

You Don't put your money in places like that if you want to retire sooner . So if something has a 401K already , for example , right at the work , you know , if they're already after the age of 60 , there might be strategies we can use . With their 401K we could pull the money away from the 401K and invest it elsewhere , right ?

You could self-direct it or use it somewhere else and still get the match . That's rare For most people , though . You put your money in a 401K , you've locked it up in prison . It's just like paying off your house . You pay off your house , you just locked up your money in prison .

The only way to get to it is either sell the property or ask permission from the bank , who might just tell you no , that's a risky , risky play . Remember all the rules you've been taught is for the financial institution , like you just said , right ?

Remember , everybody wants to use stuff money in those 401Ks because those companies make guaranteed fees off of your money . The more you put in , the more they make in fees . Same thing with banks the more you pay off the house , the less risk they're taking and the more risk you take for trying to pay down your equity because that money's out of your life .

The best thing you do is have the money in your possession . If that's the case , somebody's like funding a 401K . In many cases that our clients have to realize I should stop funding the 401K . Where should I put it ? You can put it in somewhere as simple as a savings account right , make point nothing percent .

Another option we have people do is that we actually teach a strategy called it's not the traditional grandpa version , but more I refer to as max ROI infinite banking . You've been in the insurance industry . You've probably heard of infinite banking reference before , where you use whole life insurance as a tax-free , supercharged savings account .

But that only works if you get a policy that has minimal fees so you can get maximum returns inside that life insurance policy Because it's not just by the death benefit . You can actually use this as a tax-free savings account , earning a lot more than point nothing percent of the bank . It's protected from lawsuits and creditors .

You have that liquidity and you can use the money and invest it however you want . In fact , if you invest it the right way , you can actually double dip on your investment returns . You can get your money making money in two places at once .

You can make it inside the life insurance while also investing the money by getting a line of credit against it and investing it and making money over here . So you can make money in two places , accelerating your progress to getting financially free . But again , it has to be done the right way , and we have all kinds of videos on our YouTube channel about that .

But , that being said , get that cash liquid . Like I said , you can just have a simple savings account and then invest it elsewhere .

Now , if someone has , like , an old 401K or an IRA , you can do what you mentioned , which is you can self-direct it , because it may not make sense to cash it out , and especially if you're not 60 years old yet you don't want to cash it out and have a 10% penalty in tax , unless the investment opportunity is really , really sweet .

Then it might make sense , right , but for many people it may not make sense , and so that's where we might do what's called a self-directed IRA , where you roll it over into a different company and there you don't invest it in mutual funds . You can invest it in whatever you want . You could hold it in cash .

You can invest it in real estate deals In fact , almost any real estate deal you can do that with . The one thing I tell people , though , is you know , I just had a guy email me yesterday about these questions If you're going to use the IRA , don't . You're not going to have you invest it .

Usually , we aren't going to have you buying investment properties with it right , at least not if you're going to get a mortgage on them , because there's potential for taxes and extra taxes that you don't want . But the great thing is , you can always invest in places where there aren't tax managers .

So here are the investment options you could be doing right that are very passive . I mentioned turnkey rentals . You know that means you have a property manager that deals the headaches . You don't deal with it , you don't . You don't even have to find the property . They find the properties for you , they help you get the financing .

They can put a property manager in place , which is often them , and then your hands off . Now you do have to manage the property manager . You still have to pay attention , right , you still got to make sure the money's coming in , but for the most part you're not dealing with the tenants , the toilets and the trash , right Like ? I've got several properties .

I don't even know their names , you know . I know I have the lease agreement if I need to have it for the banks and everybody to prove it , but I don't keep up on that stuff because I'm not the one dealing with the tenants . The property manager is , and yet I can still make good returns .

Now , in today's market , the returns aren't as great because interest rates are higher . So you got to be careful on that strategy because it does work great overall , but there's still some risk there because of the interest rates . Another strategy is dealing with funds . Right , you can lend your money to other investors .

For example , you know there's I know there's one of my friends right now , like he goes and renovates properties in New Jersey , even has some multifamily down , like Atlanta , georgia and places like that , and he'll pay anywhere from 10 to 12% a year depending on how much money you're putting in with them . Right , just contractually he pays that .

Now , is it guaranteed ? None of these things are guaranteed , of course , right , but contractually that's what he's supposed to be paying you . So you have a hundred thousand bucks . He can be paying you at least 10,000 to 12,000 a year based on those returns . There's other things like syndications .

You mentioned , like apartment syndications , that those have been really risky lately , especially if someone says we're going to refinance in a couple of years , that's it . In this today's market , that's a bad strategy to rely on . Those are the people that rely on appreciation . You can't rely on that . You need strong cash flow regardless of that strategy .

But apartments , there's self storage , there's even assisted living . Heck , you can invest in syndications that deal with franchises like car washes and things like that . Even one of our more popular ones with our clients lately has been in the mineral rights space oil and gas .

Right now oil prices have been kind of kept low , but everybody's predicting them to start skyrocketing pretty soon .

Well , if you're going to have to pay more of the gas pump , you might as well make more money outside of the gas pumps , right , you might as well profit on that kind of price manipulation that happens with different countries and governments and whatnot , and so that's a great way you could be making some great cash .

I've had some clients that made—I mean , I was on the low end , I made 8% last year on it . I've had clients make like 35% last year . So it just depends on the opportunity . Everything is different and , by the way , my 8% is only because they only drilled 25% of them .

The other 75% they're still like waiting for the prices to go up before they make more profits , and so they're kind of holding off on the production on some of those wells , even though no-transcript . So those kind of things , there's just so many options you could be doing and make at least double digit returns .

You know , and that's that's the the fun part for me , that's the difference and and that's where you get to the point we can really be work optional .

kids , the soccer games of this , the weekends of chores and it becomes an Additional new thing to have to worry about . Now I have to learn all of this stuff . I know what that's like , brother , because I've been there . I'm talking about myself right now .

Now you're telling me I got a lot of this stuff and I got all this stress with work and bills and family and kids and this and that . But what's the alternative , man ?

Don't destroy your life , though . Don't live on rice and beans , as Dave Ramsey would say . Right , don't just take out all the fun enjoying your life , but really track your money , like understand how much is coming in , how much is going out . Most people , when they're just surviving , they're not doing that , and there's easy ways to do it .

There's things you can use that are automated , like I use mint , right , mint . There's an app for mint commets , totally free . You can actually track your money and even have it categorize it for you to know where your money is going . So you can do things like that . My wife likes a spreadsheet . You can do that too . I just think that's a lot of work .

But but really start tracking your money . And here's the thing you can only get good so long , right , you can . Only . You can only reduce your expenses so long before you live In a cardboard box . So the other half of that equation is your track , your money is looking at the income . What can you do to produce more income ?

Here's the key that that broke the glass ceiling . For me , right , the ceiling that set felt like it was impossible to break certain income levels , right , in fact , there's one point I was hard for me to break 70,000 a year in my life , like it seemed like it was like this invisible ceiling I couldn't see , I couldn't get past that 70 or 75,000 .

All lose is that you can win right , all sacrifice myself so you can win , and that just leads to a life of poverty and being broke . What I realized ? That the real answer , the real underlying , eternal principle that always leads to more income , is Understand the principle that dollars follow value , dollars follow value , that you create for other people .

Find good ways that you and serve people Solve problems or add dye in such a way that they feel like they have to give you money to get that in their life right . You want to be valuable in people's lives . How do you find that win-win ?

That's the thing that kind of helped me get financial independent faster , even when I didn't have a ton of money saved up , is because I started focusing on that and all sudden it became predictable .

Right , it became almost like a formula , a magic formula that all had to do is figure out how to serve people and then , of course , be willing to Ask for it in return . The key key that I always had a server , servant mentality , but I wasn't always willing to ask for it .

But what I found is if I stopped blocking it like stop blocking things from people I would actually receive more money . So I know Warren Buffett said the same thing . People were asking how do you fight inflation ? He's like make more money . That's how you fight inflation . Right , you don't have to create passive income .

If you only have 25,000 bucks , don't even worry about passive income right now , because most of your opportunities won't be that great anyways . Even if you made 10% on 25,000 , you made 2,500 bucks . That's hardly gonna move the needle .

But if you can find a way to increase your income by $10,000 and then take that money and put it away , you're gonna grow much faster . So that's why I recommend is start finding ways to get outside of the box . Find ways to create value for people .

Serve people in such ways , and it doesn't always mean more time , it just means that you have to get more creative sometimes to do that , and again , if you're in survival mode , I get it .

It's hard to do , but that's the first thing I'd recommend and then I don't care if it's five bucks a week , you know ten bucks , hundred bucks a week , whatever it might be start automatically putting money weight into that savings account . Just do it automatic like , have it just come right out the account . Set it up on your bank online .

You guys set up to where they do automatic transfers from checking the savings . Do that . You'll notice that actually money once it goes in that account , your lifestyle doesn't change at all . So that's a big thing . I recommend . I also recommend to on my website , money ripplescom , there's .

There's actually an ebook you can get called Beyond Rice and Beans Seven secrets to free up cash . Today it's a free book . You can download that one . Actually , I give you some my top tips of what helped me go from broke to Paying off over a million dollars in just a matter of a few years . A million dollars of debt , that is .

So there's some really good strategies in there that can help you get that start to get going . And then , of course , you can say , great , now from here , maybe I could do something like that infinite banking strategy or something like that .

We're gonna start saving in a better place and just putting in my crappy savings account Because the next , the next struggle is okay , great , you know that person .

So it's a combination of that , the information you're getting . So if you're listening to Dave Ramsey and you're taking the action he's gonna , he's telling you to take , you're gonna get somewhere .

You might not be so pleased with where you're gonna get to , because he really wants you to be living frugal and he's got this strategy that resonate really well with folks that just want to be . How do I put this ?

When I hear the words , chris , when I hear the words I just want to , I just want to make enough money to live and that's it , and I don't want more . I respect that for people , but I want more . I want more in life . I want to experience life in its fullest capacity . I want to travel , I want to do things .

I like nice things , I want to have a nice house , I want to have multiple houses . I want to have real estate . I want to have multiple cars . I like , I like . That's me . I want to experience life . I believe in a life of abundance . I believe that God , I'm God's child and this is my father's creation .

And if anything that's my father's is also mine , and I have every right to enjoy it to the fullest , as I for my kids . Anything that's mine is yours , kids , and you have every right , by birthright , to enjoy it to the fullest . That's my mindset , that's my belief . You know , how do I get around people that are talking about these things ?

Where do I find these people ?

We're here to make this planet better than how we have came to it , yep , and the only way you can do that is really to liberate yourself . That's why you can't rely on these pensions you can't . You know which are dying away . You can't even rely on government , with social security and everything else , even though many people are right now .

The only thing you do is rely on developing yourself , it for you to break the ordinary , which ordinary does mean broke and barely surviving . To break the ordinary , you have to do something extraordinary , right , you have to do something extraordinary .

So to get around people , like you said , people that are like you , one is the easiest , cheapest option is you can listen to shows just like this . One , like keep listening , get those people's voices in your head more .

Because the one thing I've noticed is this is you've heard the old adage , right , that birds of a feather flock together , yep , well , if you want to be around people that are having different conversations . You need to have different conversations in your mind and in your heart first to attract people like that . So you have to create the change first within you .

You have to start doing that yourself , and this is an easy platform to do it . There's so much education for people like ourselves . You've got , you know , your show here . We've got Mike Show Money Ripples podcast , right . I mean , there's so many of us that are doing these things . That are the minority voices , yet we make the majority of the income .

All right , you know , that's the kind of thing you want . I did the same thing Even when I was broke . I was still reading books and I was not looking for the strategy I was looking for . How do they think , like , if I read a book about Donald Trump , for example , there's one book I liked called Never Give Up . I was more learning about .

How does he think Even Kiyosaki's books ? How Does he Think I don't care about what he did , because if I think like someone , I'll be able to implement the strategy more easily , right , so do that .

You can find groups like there are real estate investor or association groups , rio groups , as they're called , right , but just know that a lot of those people are also trying to search for answers too , and so you might have some situation where the blind leads the blind and you don't want to be in a group of people or attracted to people that are all wannabes

. They all want to find something , but they haven't quite made it work . That's why I recommend finding people like this and not to be self-serving . I know I have my own community group as well within our circle for people that aren't ready to coach with us one-on-one . We have a community group as well where we actually help teach all those things .

We give the education that all of our clients get . It's a little bit more do-yourself , but you got a community aspect as well , where you can talk with each other . And even I throw in . You know , I actually interact with the group as well . I even teach once a month and things like that .

So there are ways to do it Even for myself , like now I'm playing at a higher level . I go to mastermind groups .

I'll pay anywhere from , you know , 15 to 25 , 30 , plus $1,000 a year to be part of masterminds , to be around people that are like-minded in the same space , and I'll tell you we all think the same way we all laugh at financial advisors , say , yeah , they're full crap .

You know , just like when you and I talk , like we already know right off the bat , go , we get it because we see that , because we've been there right , and just like you said earlier , you look for evidence . You know success leaves clues .

Look for evidence If they aren't being successful outside of the income they make in their business profession , if they aren't successful in that and you're trying to create passive income but they don't do that themselves , they don't listen to them , they don't know , they don't have the experience to do it .

Follow those that have been there , done that and still doing it today . That's the best way you can associate with the right people .

You don't have to think , you don't have to justify if you don't want to . If you want to justify , you can , and are you ready to play , my friend ?

Experience , wine or beer I don't do either , so I'd say neither Long meetings or long marathons .

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