Before we get started, although I do believe i'd beer remiss if I didn't say that. Possibly, for the first time in my life, New York, I love you, but you're not bringing me down.
You're not bringing me down.
This is the first time, the first and only time, you have not brought me down. I hate hearing about you all the time. I understand why we do. I get it. Doesn't mean I want to hear it, but in this case I do. Hilarious Zorehn Mom, Donnie. When the New York City mayoral primary last night, he is a Democratic Socialist self described a member and leader within the DSA there and he won. He beat Andrew Cmo last night in the primary. This is, you know, against
all of the media backing and everything like that. People just didn't.
Care socialist man. Maybe they look like a clown.
They said, you're among billionaire mayors. Now, clown because he lost to a Muslim. Uh in a in a in a city that in a city that twenty four years ago was under a terrorist atack with a Muslim, which is really cool, Like, it's really fucking cool that, in spite of media pressure, uh, every politician in the world in this country and uh, you know, and and popular, not popular, but in sentiment racist and xenophobic sentiment against Muslims.
They did this. And uh, I'm not going to say I don't think anybody should be rose rosy eyed about what this is because the history of.
Probably kill him, but socialist mayors.
Is not good. You either end up being a shill and assimilated or the other thing, which is not great. But uh, I do this is good, Like it's good. The worst people in the world are mad about them, about this, all of them.
Uh.
Democratic leadership is pissed, Republicans pissed, Zionists pissed. Everybody that you dislike on a daily basis is angry. Uh so, yeah, it's nice to revel in that. Just take a minute, breathe it in, breathe in the their annoyance. Shot and fraud is good. People feel fantastic to just sometimes be like, yes, go fuck yourself.
I have a cute I got a cute Zorn story. So a friend of the show, Mattie Lubchansky was who knows him, She was at this event like it was like a trans for Zorin event in New York and someone asked him like, oh, are you and your wife monogamous and he said yes, and they all boot him. I was like, it's a beautiful culture, beautiful.
People, wonderful, it's good news. I can't believe I'm saying this. Good job, DSA, that you did real good work here. Now, if you guys could stop with the whole just let us in, just let us be dollar store Democrats, it would be really cool. But yeah, seriously, great job to Democratic Socialists of America, great job to other people of New York. Again, Zoran has issues that I think he can work on on certain things, and he needs to be pushed on those very hard, just like you push anyone.
But at the same time, Muslim so Muslim kid kid like. In political terms, socialist won the mayor primary and that's awesome. Also sucks, but he's gonna have to face Quomo again because Cuomo runs his own party in New York, so he is on the ballot, the general ballot regardless. So yeah, I ain't never been a democracy, folks, not a real one. But hey, you take the dubs or you can get him. We did it. That's amazing. I don't think we have time to get into the whole Iran thing. But yeah, Trump, Iran,
maybe ceasefire. Israel seems pissed. I don't know. Yesterday it was a good day to be online. By the time this comes out, this might be seeming outdated, but we recorded this on the morning of June twenty fifth, so.
They hadn't assassinated him yet, or the.
Afternoon nuclear European Yeah, or you know, if the things in with Iran have it reheated. But yeah, good jobs oroon, good job New York. Awesome, that's it. Awesome. Revel in the worst people alive being mad about this. Oh, they're so mad, they're reveling there insanity, revel in the fact that they're like Zionist dog whistles, uh no longer really seem to work on people, especially no one under like
forty five or fifty. But like, yeah, good job. Also humorously shout out to white guys overwhelmingly voted in favor of Zoron, Like.
I mean, I love Dude's Rock Rock.
I mean the Zoron's election should put a nail in the coffin of like the way that people do identity politics in polling, Like, oh, if we just get this group, you cannot get a monolithic group of people. That's not how it works, especially not in this country. It's too broad, diverse, too weird does it work. So instead, you should just have a good message and people will come to it. People will and then be like, oh, well he didn't
reach out to working class people. I don't know. It seemed like some working class people were pretty fine with him. But yeah, it's.
I think my favorite thing that I saw because he like a homeboy obviously, like he's aimed at me, so he was like in my face a lot, obviously. But my favorite thing that I uh, a person that I saw him with was motherfucking Stavvy. I was like, not the Covid and Stavvy baby endorsement. I was like, come on, Starros, get out here.
Like yeah, the endorsements of him, just like walking across Manhattan are just so funny because people are just like, hey, it's that guy. I've seen him, I know him, my light.
You know, you're just like, wait, what Cynthia Nixon from Sex and the City Miranda Shoot indorsed. You know, yeah, like it's a baby, It's it's happening. You know.
Bernie and AOC took their sweet ass fucking time, but you know you got there in the end, I guess it's uh, folks, it's good news. For once, we got good news, and we're gonna say no bad news at the start here good news. Let's just get into it. Hello, and welcome back to We're Not So Different podcast about how we've always been idiots and sometimes maybe, just maybe a good thing will happen. Folks, We're back with the
monthly mail bag for July. As we all know, patrons who subscribe for just five dollars a month picture on dot com slash wnsd podcast ask us questions that we will answer on the show, and we're endeavoring to catch up by doing these mailbag episodes every month until we do. We're going to keep the intro pretty short and sweet this time. But if you can't get enough of your two favorite co hosts, we've got great news because we
are everywhere right now. Obviously, there's a limited there's the limited podcast series Welcome to the Crusades, the First Crusade that we did with the American Prestige Fellas. It's an eleven episode deep dive into the First Crusade and you can listen to the first two episodes for free on the normal podcast feed, and then purchase the remaining nine episodes for just ten dollars. Welcome to the Crusades dot com.
If the price has not yet gone up to ten dollars and is still eight dollars when this episode releases, well then huzzaf for you. Yeah, so check that out. We're extremely proud of it. But we've also been promoting the series all over recently. Eleanor and I appear together on new or very recent episodes of Western Kabuki, The Worst of All Possible Worlds, ten k Post, and Masters
of Our Domain. Additionally, you can hear Eleanor and Derek Davison talking it up on a recent Chapo Premium episode, and you can hear me talking about and or in real world fascism on Delete your account. Check that out after. But in the meantime, let's open some male question from Ali Kant. Did Vikings know how to do throat singing? Or is this horrible chud do? Is this horrible chuds doing revisionism again and appropriating it from Mongols? Well, I will say before we start, I think we should we
should do definition of what throat singing is. Throats singing is a very common practice across the world, like monks, websh like Buddhist monks, certain Christian monks with their chanting
and and toning and stuff like that. It occurs in Japan. Uh, the Inuit have a version of it in Canada, and I yeah, I'm sure Vikings did do it, because it's I mean, it's not every you know, like everybody can like or not everybody, but most people can kind of throat sing like you try to like inch down further into your throat, you know, and you try to do that. But like so, so I'm sure they did because it's not uncommon, you know, Russia, China, Mongolia, you know, Italy.
The whole thing. The thing that makes Mongolian throat singing different is that they do it in a specific way, which yeah, they get you. You vibrate your vocal cords in such a way that you create two tones. So if you remember the movie Doune and they have the throat singing throughout, uh, you know, in the beginning and it keeps popping up throughout, that is a version of
Mongolian throat singing. And it's not just Mongolanes, it's Turkic people's uh, Mongolic tribes, not just the Mongols themselves, and even uh and even some other others in West Asia, but or East Asia other but yeah, they vibrate their vocal cords to make two different sounds. And that's why it sounds so different and so remarkable because it because it is because it's it's a different way than a lot of other throat singing is done, which you know
is still great. You know, people love the Gregroy chants and stuff like that, and that is oftentimes a version of throat singing, but you know, yeah, the Mongols, uh, they just do it really cool. And I don't know, I'm sure, I'm sure there are people who teach themselves because I you know, I've seen you know, I've seen videos of random, random mass white people doing it.
But oh yeah, my my my brother, who's a noted quirked up white boy, taught himself to do it. So yeah, shut shut out, shout out to Nate Yanaga. Yeah, homeboy himself to do it because we were we were raised by hippies, so and what like when you grow up Badriyana just weird shit happens sometimes, so yeah, like Nate can do it. It took him a long time to figure it out, but he did figure it out. I want to shout out one of my parents hippie ass
CDs that spawned all this. There's a really accomplished throat singer, Kongar all On Dar who is a leading tuban throat singer, and he's got an excellent album that is called Back Tuva Future.
Fuck.
Yes, absolutely, it's like very in the kind of like deep forest vein of things. If you want to hear like some fucking kick ass throat singing, but they're like trying to make it modern. Check that shit out. It whips. But like, I guess what I have to say about this is yeah, like you're exactly right, Luke. They probably did do some form of throat singing, but it didn't sound like the Mongolian kind, right, It's most likely.
I mean, if we have no record of it.
We don't have a record of it.
It's something you would think they would.
It's so hard they didn't stop doing it. That's that's this is my argument, because fucking the tuban version goes so fucking hard, there's absolutely no way that shit's gonna fall out of practice. And when you already have cultures that do throat singing, which we certainly see from like other monastic cultures, then they would probably pick it up. So the stealing valor is the dual tone thing. That's what that's what's.
Yeah uh and yeah, Ellenor said it too. It's it should be called tubin throat singing. I think mungol and throat singing is too exclusionary to all of the number of groups that do it. But yeah, it's really cool. Go check it out. You can hear some on the Dude soundtrack. You can, I mean go type in throat singing in you know, Apple music or Wikipedia, and I guarantee some of it will come up and you can hear the lovely like two tone voices that they do. It's it's really fantastic. Yeah.
The Future apparently has a four point seven star rating out of five on Amazon, just saying in case you're going to go check that shit out, but you can also apparently check out the whole thing on YouTube. So yeah, I don't know, get zouited blaze a fat one for me brackets legally and check that shit out for sure.
Yeah, Ollie, thank you very much for the question. Next, we got one from I would whack five hundred miles. He says, I would love to hear about Baltic Sea piracy that plagued Hanseiotic League traders, and yeah that eleanor I'm given to believe that piracy was a problem on the high seas for uh, I mean basically until until very recently, and I mean it's still there, we just don't really talk about.
Yeah, like yoho ho bitch okay, like first of all, shot that down, but yeah, a really big problem both in the and also in the Black Sea. Huge problems with piracy in the Black Sea because they're such incredibly important trade routes and really good stuff is going through there.
So yeah, we we know a lot. And it's also one of these things that's really difficult because in the Baltic Sea, what we we know about it can get very confused because there is a tendency, especially in the medieval period, whenever someone wrongs you, if you're in the Baltic area, for them to be like Estonians, you know, or like whatever, because they're like they're going to go find the non Christians and they're gonna blame them, right,
and you know, ordinarily, if you're in the Nordic countries, they're going to be like, oh, yeah, i'll tell you what this is. Like, it's going to be the fault of like, oh gosh, their name is excusing me right now, you know, hurting reindeer, et cetera.
Oh, but that's from the Avatar movies. Sorry, No, they are the They are beautiful nomadic.
People, beautiful nomadic people who we should.
Be left alone.
Leave them, leave them alone, leave them alone.
They don't want to be bothered. If they do, they'll come, let you know.
So if something bad happens on land, they're often like Sami, although still there is also some blaming Sammi for like shipwrecks and things like that, because they say that they're that, like they like can do wind magic and things like this.
Oh that's great, yeah, normal.
But so they'll be all like Latvians or you know, Estodians, right, because they'll be like, it's those damn pagans or whatever, and probably it's just some guys, you know, But to a certain extent, they dressed it up like that because the idea is, you know, Christian on Christian violence is bad, so in which case it's got to be like it's got to be some like pagans air quotes who are
down doing this shit. So we do see rather a lot of it, and it does fuck with the Hansa And one of the things that the Hansa Ports was kind of supposed to be doing in theories sort of having patrol boats a little bit, like I mean, one of the things that you should kind of be doing is contributing to like policing as it were, the seas. But sea's big, so kind of difficult to do that. Very occasionally pirates get caught, not very often you will be killed, Like I can't stress that enough, but yeah,
it's it's incredibly common. You've got to you know, as it's as common as it was like you know in the seventeenth century, eighteenth century. You know, it's just that the seas are big places and it's very hard to police. Even now, it's very difficult for us to police piracy. So which is why you get danger pay if you
go through the Red Sea. And so if it's like if you're if you're doing like the Gulf of Aiden kind of run and that sort of a thing on ships, you get extra pay, which I know because I worked for a while in like an adjacent to the shipping business because my life is weird. But yeah, so you get that in if you do that.
Run yeah, And I mean, like, if you've ever seen a map of Europe and the way that the ways that that the Hanseatic League traveled, uh, you will know that you know the part of Denmark where you go north of Germany, north of Hamburg, and you know that little bit that juts out towards Scandinavia, and if you go around that to the east, there are a lot of little islands and stuff, and that place is just
pirate fucking city. Like you can lie in wait behind any number of inlets and coves and and you can you can take people from the land.
In some cases, these motherfuckers got fjords. These motherfuckers got fjords.
Like it's there there anywhere, any any place that you could possibly do it, both in the sea, and I mean then the the rivers that they took as well, they took you know, they did rivery trading down into Germany and and uh in Poland and of course down to Novogrod in Russia. And you know, yeah, it's there's a lot of it. There's a lot of piracy, and it's not really like the Golden age of piracy yet that would happen, uh mostly after the uh the Hansiatic League was was done and also be in like the
Atlantic and the Mediterranean. But yeah, like you got a cog. The cogs are good ships. They're sturdy as hell. They can take a beating. But like if you it doesn't even it doesn't matter if you have you know, like a lookout ship or anything like if the prevailing winds are pushing you in one direction and you know, or they they ground you or something. I mean, good fucking luck. You better hope you're somewhere where people care. Yeah, so I would wack five hundred miles. Thank you very much
for the question. Always love to talk the Hanseatic League and their goofy wool trade. Question. Next question from dog God, how often did kings actually wear their crowns? Medieval art always shows kings with crowns regardless of what they're doing. But Eleanor's sorry about William the First wearing his crown in the Ruins of York as a display of dominance made it sound like it wasn't a normal practice.
Yeah, that's right. So they're very expensive, Yes, you know, so it is not far off of now where you know, like here, the king will bring out the crown if it's like a big ceremonial occasion, like if he's meeting other heads of state, if he's got like a big religious thing happening. That's when you do it. You don't ordinarily like you're not wearing a crown to a party, like you're not wearing it like and you're certainly not going to like travel in it because you know what
happens if you get jump or something like that. It can be really difficult. So for example, uh, when Charles the fourth, just to make it all about progue, as per usual, when Charles the fourth takes the Czech crown, he remakes the Czech crown to look like they thought the crown of Saint Ventislaus had looked, and then or and then he gets himself crowned with it, you know, a big thing. Look, oh look at me, I'm just
like Saint Pislaus. And then he has the crown stay on the bust of Saint Ventislaus in Prague Cathedral, and so basically it's doing what he wants it to do. They're like, that is the crown ordinarily it stays with Ventroslas, so like it creates like this religious connection between between the crown and him and Saint Ventislaus, so you know, very important, but a myth making there and so yeah, that's the that is the kind of thing. Now. The reason we see crowns on kings and art is so
that you can identify them. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's the equivalent of just like having a little thing that has their name on it, like for people who can't speak. Right, It's like if you see a crown on someone in a painting, then you know that they're a king, right, And so they're not really wearing them around. Like if you met another king, you'd probably wear one mm hm, you know you'd be like, well, like you know, but if you're meeting them in battle, no, because you
don't want to like lose the crown. What like what happens if you know, all these things come together. But if you're like having some bing wetting and everybody's there, everyone's gonna like flex their crowns. It's like like that sort of thing. But they are for special occasions, is what they're for. Yeah, And they're uncomfortable, they're heavy.
Dude, you know, God, Yeah, heavy is the head that where's a crown is a literal thing. Metal is not inexpensive. So unless you're doing the late Byzantine crown where they made it out of leather and beaded glass because the Venetians took it all, it's heavy. They're very heavy. H yeah, and that's really cool. Uh fucking crowns are great. Oh yeah,
dog God, thank you very much for the question. Next, we got one from Mattera Sesino, who says, I know mass was definitely on Sundays and specific holy days, but would there be mass every day that people weren't generally expected to attend? I do mean in a local parish church. I'm not bothered about what occurred in a monastery.
Yeah, Like it just depends on whether or not your priest is good. There should yeah, there should be mass every day. There should be a mass everage. And indeed, in most most churches there is mass every day, irregardless of like what's going on, people just usually don't attend it. And so for example, the church that was attached to the Catholic school that I went to growing up, which is like near my parents' house, it has recently been
downgraded to a chapel. Yeah, because they don't have they don't have enough Catholics anymore in the hood and so and that basically means I think that they just have Mass on Sundays now, So it's like they don't have a priest that lives there, and like a priest comes in every Sunday and we'll do a Sunday Mass. But a church is going to have two on Sunday, usually one on Saturday, like one every day of the week, and like one at five o'clock on Saturday. Is kind
of like the usual way of doing things. You might have a really shit priest though, and this is this is super super common, like it's very common, and it's something that gets complained about all the time in reform literature, is that people will be given a prebend, like you know, you're given a really rich church and which gets you a good income, and then you live in the city and you never fucking go there, and so then those people are basically left without a priest. And that's something
that people complain about all the time. So in theory, yeah, once a day maybe if you go to really big parish church, like it doesn't have to just be like, uh, this isn't just cathedrals. But you know, often big parish churches, for example, the ones that will have smaller altars around the side, priests will be saying multiple masses day there because they're gonna be going around to each of the little altars and doing a mass because the families leave
money for that for perpetual masses. When perpetual masses are set for the soul, then that means that like once a day they're gonna get a mass at like the tiny little altar. And now it's gonna be really fast because there isn't gonna be people that are taking communion or whatever. They're just gonna be like no no, no, no no no no no Jesus wept no no no yeah, wow, damn, Like that's crazy, Like they're probably not gonna do a sermon, but they'll do the mass, right, And then that is
kind of like for the expation of souls. So it could be in larger parishes if they're rich enough, you could be having like ten masses a day in theory at which people can join in if they want. Like, if you want to go to that mass, you absolutely can as a regular person. But also, you know, regular people are killing the fields and shit could be on
the tilling game. But you know, if you're older, like say you're seventy years old, like you're not gonna be tilling every day, and like grandma might go to mass every day. So it's just kind of like a different way of doing things.
Yep. Yeah, just guy out there just like saying mass like like one hundred times a day. He's just so tired. He's like, you guys know how it goes. Why don't you come up here and talk about it. Yeah, Matta Rossino, thank you very much for the question. Uh. Next, we've got one from MG in your face. So it's been documented that I'm a Renfair fan, but there are but there are consom festivals that are more focused on sci fi. Lastly,
possible future. We all know medieval people had had that reverence for the Classics, But was there ever a imagine the year two thousand ball in Italy whatever? And I don't know for sure, but I am willing to bet if you could somehow go back and pull every Christian in Europe at the time that something on the order of ninety plus percent of them would not believe that the world would still be here at the year two thousand. Yeah, yeah, I mean that they thought the Lord was coming back
every other week, like like he's just he's coming back soon. Guys. It's like in the world's still gonna be here in eight hundred years. I don't know about that.
Yeah, Like when they do futurism, it's usually talking about the apocalypse, and they're like they're like, because that's going to happen in the future, right, It's definitely, it's definitely
gonna happen. I mean, so, yeah, they kind of one thing that they often talk about, Like if they're talking about the future, it's usually about like a continuing decline of morals or alternatively, you occasionally get people looking forward to the thousand year Reign of Peace or ten thousand year Reign of Peace, which will happen when the Last World Emperor takes back over after the defeat of Anti Christ maybe, right, because like some people some people think
that like he's like an optional extra, like the Last World Emperor, like he's.
A guy, he's here, yeah, and Elias and yeah, you know, and and.
Because yeah episode exactly exactly, okay, right, because like, you're not gonna lie this. They're going to come back. Anti Christ is gonna get so mad about that, and he is going to kill them, and then he is going to leave their bodies out to decompose for three days. And then he's going to try to prove a point by ascending bodily into heaven on the Mount of Olives, just to prove that Christ isn't special. And then he's gonna be struck down by the spirit of Christ's mouth
and die. And then and then the last world Emperor is going to come back and be like, see, you were worshiping Anti Christ, but actually I'm the good guy. And then you're gonna get a ten thousand year reign of peace. And people will talk about how like that's gonna fucking whip and they can't wait for the ten thousand year reign of peace. But not everybody necessarily like takes the track that that is going to happen, ye, But yeah they don't. It's just like their idea of
the future is really different. Because you know, one thing that you've got to understand about us is we're like technology pilled, right, Like the way that we think about everything in our culture is that there are going to be other technologies which are going to allow you to do X, y Z, And sometimes you get things that like that. You know, like people will talk about flying machines for example, like that's something they're like, wow, what if we could figure that out?
You know, some of them you've been tried to do it. There's a guy that tried the original parachute who jumped off of a tall building in Italy and it doesn't work.
But you know, yeah, you know, people are trying things, you know, so but also they just kind of don't. They don't think about society and technological terms, whereas we do. You know, for us, progress is necessarily linked directly to tech, whereas for them it's much more religious in nature. So for them, advancing any kind of discussion about history is going to be about religion. It isn't going to be about technology. So it's it's a different way of looking at things.
Yeah, I mean, conceptualizing the far future is like the way that we do. It appears to be a very recent phenomenon outside of apocalyptic literature now, you know, like most biblical stories about the end times, I mean they are like in the future, X will happen, and you know, in some of them it's gonna be a long time from now, and some of them it's coming. You know, two days could come at any time. But like that, outside of that, futurism is not like a thing until now,
maybe the seventeenth century. I mean, maybe there's a couple earlier ones that I'm that I'm not thinking of, but like, you know, we didn't get we didn't get sci fi until Mary Shelley and then we did, I mean, you know, something like that. And we didn't get you know, fantasy as we understand until like the middle eighteen hundre. So you know, it's, uh, it's a new thing. I don't I guarantee you most of those people would have been like, the world's not gonna be here at the year two thousand.
That's insane, Like God's coming out like he told us, you know, like and especially the early Christians, they thought that shit was happening like the next day.
Yeah, I think that they would be really sad.
Yes, actually, oh God, yes they.
Would be like, oh man, I thought that we would be done with us by now. So I think that they would be kind of sad about the whole.
Yeah, we'd be done with the shitty mortal coil. Yeah if junior face, thank you very much for the question. Next we got one from Quixotic, which is our Passages of Arms real or a Victoria Victorian invention? If they were real? Why? And yeah, pasta to arms? I think they were real. They appear to have been real. And if you're wondering what a pasta arm is, if you remember Monty Python and the Holy Grail and black Knight who's blocking the bridge until he demands satisfaction of his honor.
That's a very extreme version of a past to arms. It was basically, I would stand in front of a bridge, would be like, if you are a knight and you want to pass this, you have to fight me or or lose your honor. And you know, yeah, and why well eleanor Yeah, that's real. Why did a bunch of fucking meattheads challenge each other to cross bridges like this? Like common bridge trolls?
Okay, Yeah, So this begins in the fourteenth century, like all good things, and so it's big in the fourteenth century, it's big in the fifteenth century. And the way that we think about it is that we think what they were attempting to do is differentiate themselves like nobles, in particular, differentiating themselves from a common military right, because what happens also in the fourteenth and fifteenth century is increasingly people start killing each other during war. So you know, the
Hundred Years War really kind of changes things. You know, as I always say up because to that point, it's kind of like rich guy tag you have a war where you attempt to kidnap people, but then in the fourteenth century they start trying to kill people and everyone's like, oh, I don't know, I was supposed to do that, right, So at that point in time you also kind of
have the conceptions of tournaments and things like that really change. So, for example, it's during this period that we see move away from the melee being the major kind of tournament to jousting being the major kind of tournament. So what they're trying to do is be like, I'm not like you people, right, Like we are this the very specialized
kind of nobility, and this is what we do. So like we're not down there in the muck with you people, and we don't really want to like kill people, but we want to engage in this worthy sort of combat, and so you know, it absolutely happened. We've got tons and tons of records for this.
Yeah, like thousands, actual thousands of records of this happened.
And so it's like one of these things where much in the way that the tournaments initially with melee is what you would do is you would like nail a thing on a door and be like, come at me, bitch, Like on this day, I'll be taking all comers. It was like that. So you know, this is considered like a game essentially. It's a it's a form of incredibly stylized combat. But you know, you may as well be watching American gladiators essentially.
Yep. Yeah, it's it happens all over Western Europe, France, Spain, the Lowlands up north, it's you know, it's all over there. And like these are so widespread that there were strategies for dealing with them, like strategy ideas or even booklets about you know, this is how you deal with this, is how you get around this, and stuff like that, and yeah, you can there there are a couple I
can't a couple of articles. I can't read either of them because I don't speak Spanish or French, but one of them by Udell Blanc lestrettagis de la peru Don's Les des vortissement che cheval risk Sorry ninety seven and then uh Pedro Rodriguez Delina from nineteen thirty, a critical annotated edition of El Paso on Russo de suero de Quinones. Yeah, so those have a lot in there if you want to check those out and can read those languages. But yeah, they're very real. They are a kind of cool legacy
of you know, the Chevalric tradition. And also, I mean meat heads with CT you're gonna make up dumb games. It's not like we've ever stopped doing that, no kidding.
Yeah.
Yeah. Next, we got one question from Pearl River. I swear there was an episode where you discuss pipes like sewage pipes, not smoking pipes. I'm asking because I recently dug up a nearly two hundred year old wooden pipe, and now I'm wondering what medieval people use for pipes. I'm assuming bricks, but also they didn't have many things that needed piping, so you know, pipe layers back them are probably not as busy.
Yeah, so they often use wood, is the answer to this. So, for example, if you've got a bath house or something where there is piped water, a lot of the time it's going to be wooden. You can use brick, yes, in certain circumstances, especially in places where they're basically keeping the Roman the systems going that that is often what gets used and so as a result, we don't have
a lot of evidence for it because it decays. So what we generally have instead is kind of like the impression for where we can we can find where their pipes have rotted. But you know, it's a fairly good system. You know, it works pretty well. I mean, yeah, you got to replace her or whatever, but you know a lot of times that is fundamentally a private the thing that you're doing there isn't going to be in most
places a kind of municipal system for piping. So it's going to be just like whatever it is you want to do. So as a rich enough person to do this, you know, like you can just replace wood whenever you need to replace what That'll be fine. But yeah, it would, is the answer.
Yeah, yeah, they they did that. There were some metal pipes, but that was in the richest, the richest places.
Of Venice like this.
Capital cities, you know, throne rooms things like that, if you ever hear and maybe one day we'll talk about them.
About medieval automatons, which were like things that were animated by like gust of wind and stuff like that, and they use those, and I mean there were like for a while, the Byzantine throne had like a weird like perk cussive system under it where they could raise the thrown up by piping in hot wind into like a bellows and it would push it up so the so the emperor and empress would seem like they were on
an even higher keelan than they normally were. And like yeah, so uh yeah, it mostly gonna be wood brick, yeah, unless you're really rich in which and then you could like you have your yeah yeah, pipe fitter doing whatever. But yeah, Pearl River, thank you for the question. Uh yeah, medieval pipes not man, there's gonna be a lot of ship getting in your water if it's going through brick. That's just picking up so much, so much small debris, which is incidentally why the oceans are salty, Like they
pick up minor, minor bits of salt and deposit it. Yeah, from the Rocks. So anyway, Uh, next we got one from may Day. Can you speak on the lulla al slash hoodsite connection, eleanor why was Yan who's so enamored of one mister John Wickliffe. Ah?
Yeah, So it's that they have places in which they differentiate. But it is absolutely true that there's this huge connection and it is all fostered by the marriage of Anne of Bohemia over here to Richard. So basically it creates more back and forth in between the Czechs and England than had happened previously, because it was just like, why would we talk to English people?
English people? Why would we talk to Czech people?
Yeah, Like it's like, you know, the wolve's coming over here anyway, I don't like. I mean like English people will one hundred percent take the silver from Bohemia. Check people will one hundred percent take the wool from England. But like, other than that, no one really cares. But one of the big things that they get the English get along with Anne because Anne doesn't have to provide a dowry because it's such a down grade to marry an English king. They but they do get unfettered access
to trade in Bohemia. So you have a lot more English traders that begin to make the journey all the way to Bohemia, and they bring with them ideas in the way that one always does. And the law Lords are rather the big thing at the time, aren't they. So you know, the law Lords, for those who don't know, are led by John Wycliffe who is up at Oxford, and he's got a lot of problems with you people, you know, standard standard fucking I hate the church pope
as a fuck kill them all, you know. Fourteen thirteen.
Yeah, not bad.
He's got some interesting ideas. So for example, he doesn't believe in transubstantiation, that's right. He believes in consubstantiation. So he thinks that the host and wine contain both the body and blood at the the book, like they contained that and their essential breadness at the same time.
It's symbolic, it's actual, like it's not the actual the priest isn't you know?
Yeah, blood well kind of a little bit. It's like it can take on both natures at the same time. It's really.
His his was that detail? Okay? Cool?
Yeah, it's like so it does both. It's really weird. He's he's like, maybe we should do some more things in English. There is we now believe he didn't actually translate the Bible into English. We think other people did and they called it and yeah, exactly all you do. And you know, he's constantly stepping on toes because you know, he's doing the normal ship, which is like church shouldn't have money, et cetera. And you know, like he's really
into ordinary people having uh, having more opportunities to take community. Okay, so he does not. He manages to die before getting declared a heretic, although he gets like pulled in front of the church a lot. He's kind of like a millic in that description where it's like he's always pissing
people off, but they never quite get him right. And much like Milach as well, like they kill a couple of his boys and like eventually La Larderie it like becomes a heresy, but by then it's already got to Prague and it's really big in the university and these little bitches are nerding out, and in particular on who's is nerding out and he's the head of the theology faculty and he really likes this shit, and they're like you need to burn all of this's you need to
burn all of white Cliff's teachings. And he's like, okay, yeah, but I translated these ones, so it's not the same thing, right, you know, like this is my this is my translation, so I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, like you know, and he'll do shit like that, and it eventually becomes synonymous with in the university. They're like four schools in the university, which is like the basically they're divided in between the nations quote unquote that are
supposed to be there. It's like the Germans, the Czechs, the Italians, and the polls and the checks are like we love this shit. We're all like lollards now and everyone else is like what and they're like, oh, also we hate you. Get the fuck out of here. And they basically like drive everybody off because they're they're like specifically intolology. And so this is kind of what gets
in trouble. It's his refusal to denounce Wycliffe. It's really the thing that gets him brought, for example, before the Council of Basel. So yeah, it's it's all incredibly interlinked. Host takes a lot of why Cliff's ideas and expands on them. So he's the one who's really like all about like the people should get to have bread and wine. He actually does translate the Bible into check. He does a lot more talking about vernacular stuff than Why Cliff did,
although why Cliffe does some. But so they don't agree on every single thing. But like hussies himself as an extension of Wycliffe and going a little bit further. So, Yeah, basically, if your name was John at the time, odds are he might he might end up being he might end up being a heretic.
But yeah, it's it's Yan Yan, It's wide open. What's the French version.
Or Jean Jean, Yeah, Jehan Sean.
Yeah, yeah, you know, I don't have much more. Just two things. First, very funny that uh jan Hoo's did get he he did go to a woke university and it turned him woke.
And did it did?
Yeah, And then this was reciprocated later when some of the earliest Germanic and Slavic reformers were kicked out of the Holy Roman Empire and one of the places they went was dear old England, And yeah, that's how you get Puritans and the Church of England and all that jazz yep may day. Thank you very much for the question. Next, we got one from Philip. What type of weapon would you prefer if you were going into a battle as a levee melee sword for hire? Is a levee slash
melee slash sword for hire? Okay?
Uh melee? Okay, So Levy, the.
Longest halbird you've got, I want the longest halberd. I want that thing to be so long. I'm like tipping over that.
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I like a spear, don't I. I'm like, you stay over there, Yeah, you go, just stay away from me a poke poke. Yeah, I think that the spears is quite good. But I would just not to say a lands I want a spear.
Yeah, all right, I mean, and if I if I've got one, like I mean, if I just have to have something like to look cool, give me his way, Hander, give me that thing. Oh yeah, like fucking cool?
Is it's about flexing that?
Yeah, if I'm if I'm not there to look good, if I if I need to show up in armor and and look like a g I need this way Hander, Okay, okay.
Started laughing drinking water and I was like, I'm gonna mute, but I was like, also, don't spit water all.
So you were choking. Oh my god. I was so worried. I was like, holy shit, you can't talk. And then as you're muted, and I was like, oh, okay, well.
Then like this biture, just try out.
Hold up this m f spitting. Yeah, it's uh, give me this way hander. Like it's really unfortunate that, like the big fantasy swords don't really exist because they seem so cool. But like, yeah, give me, give me this way hand er. I'm gonna go out. I'm gonna die anyway. If I'm gonna die, I might as well have like a cool looking sword with a weird like thing in
the middle of the blade. Yeah, just give it to me. Yeah, or or if I'm trying to be or if I'm trying to be saved, I want the longest pole arm slash halberd slash spear that you got, and I want to be far away from people. But yeah, in.
The melee though, Yeah, in the melee, I think in the melee you have to you would need a short like even the zueight hander would probably be too long for the melee. If you, yeah, you want to be able to get close to motherfuckerss.
I think you like an axe, maybe a mace, like an actual mace, actually the metal the metal handle with the all on the end of it. Yeah, like an actual mace that like that would be insane because like, if you make contact with that, you're breaking someone's bones at the bare minimum.
Even if you can ring the bell real good at the thing, if.
You hit all armor, they're still good. Like if you hit someone like in the back, the lower lower in their back or whatever, they're gonna be pissing blood for like three weeks because you just fuck bruise their kidneys to S.
Yeah, I think that's the way to go. Yeah, I think that is. And in the melee, there's gonna be a lot less room for like fluidity, so you just want to be like bish bash I think.
Yeah, give me, give me, give me the shield, hold up the shield, put it down, bank shield, bank, et cetera. Yeah, Philip, thank you very much for the question. As you can tell, I would be no good in a fight because I'm a giant bitch, but uh I would try. They would kill me. But I would try anyway we got. Last one we got today is from Jia Hi Luke and doctor Eleanor. Your podcast is give me a greater appreciation for the difference between the Middle Ages and the Early Modern.
I started to notice when I'm when supposed medieval fantasy series is actually early modern, like those Wheel of Time motherfuckers having printing presses, oil lamps, and spring driven clocks. Are there any fantasies they stand out as being particularly medieval or not medieval, early modern, et cetera. I have heard, I'll give you I'll give you a serious answer, Firse. I've heard that the Malazon series, the Book of Malason series is number one, very good and also has a
lot of very realistic medieval style combat. Now, I mean, clearly it's going to have fantasy elements draped over if there's going to be magic and stuff. But he's very big into sieges, very big into like digging, tunneling under walls to collapse them, you know, all stuff that happened in the Middle Ages. So I've heard that is good. Elenor, I mean, I'm having trouble thinking of any that like really are on point. But I also personally don't think that's a big issue, but do you have I.
Mean, the thing is like, actually annoyingly, the answer really is this mother, you know, you know exactly what I'm going to say, is our good friend Germ. Like the Song of Ice and Fire books are like the closest I I he does. He's got away with it.
He does a good job. Like and I think if you look at it, like whether you like George R. Martin, whether you like House of the Dragon, Game of Thrones or the A Song of Ice and Fire series or not, I think if you look at that like it is
like that is how you should do fantasy. Now, to be clear, there was a time when he was like, this is the most historically accurate medieval fantasy series around, which may technically be true, but you still shouldn't say that because it gives and he has thankfully stopped doing
that a lot recently. But like, if you think about it, like it incorporates a whole lot of medieval stuff, and I mean obviously uses tropes like feudalism, or constantly talk about and like they have the pyramidial feudal structure that Eleanor likes to joke. You know that the pyramid has king on top. They have that, but like it has like realistic elements. It's really not moving into the early
modern too much. The Siage engines look pretty standard, you know, trebuche uh you know, I mean, of course they have you know, like the huge battering ram like grand type things. But I mean, like that's not to me, that's not an inaccuracy. That's artistic license. Like that's what makes it fantasy, because if it's all just regular sie ginges and stuff, I might as well just be reading about you know, I might as well just be reading about Siege of Baghdad, Siege Fantioc or whatever.
I guess one that I really like a fantasy series that I'm really into, which is ongoing, and I think it kind of straddles nicely into getting into like the more early modern. But again, you know, it's fantasy, so it's all over the places. It's the it's a series of graphic novels called Monstrous Well it fucking whips. It's by Marshay Leu and Sna ta Keda, and you know,
absolutely fucking fantastic. You've got like there's a group called the Arcanics and they're kind of like magic creatures, some of them can pass for humans, some cat and then there's like the Federation, which are like a bunch of like uh you know, think about like the Benajazzaret, but like even more evil kind of a thing. Very very fun. There's like basically the protagonist arm is a monster that will like eat people and it fucking whips. It's so good man, Yeah, really good.
Yeah, if you want you talking about that. The Dune series really is good about taking a lot of the contours of the Middle Ages and the Holy Roman Empire and putting them into space. There's obviously sci fi trappings on top of that, but like a lot of that series is about how like the Golden Path involve like essentially cutting off hyperspace travel for three thousand years and everybody is sent back into like a feudal lifestyle essentially on the planet that they're on. When that happens, it's
very hard to get off. And Frank Herbert did a great job of including stuff the the you know, the the governing body that they have, the structure that they have is very HR but also it's it's late medieval, but it's also early modern HR because of course Paula Trades is a Napoleon figure and he's going to take them down at the Battle of Austerlitz in space the Battle of Arakaslts, And yeah, you know it's I think
that one does a good job. I think when you're doing these, when you're looking at stuff, I think it's a good thing to just, you know, find one that you like and pick the medieval and medieval some aspects out of it that you do enjoy, and then just you know, absorb the rest and let them wash over you. Because like, no one's gonna do it exactly right, because if you did, it's not fantasy, it's not sci fi.
It's not it's just a history book. And you know, like when you when you start adding stuff on top of it, and instead of having you know, a normal battering ram, you have grand to the Ngrond and you have dragons, like you know, I mean they they thought medieval people thought a lot of them thought dragons were real. Like the first time Eastern Europeans saw Mongolian fire based weaponry like the fire lances and the exploding pots and stuff that they had, uh, I mean they thought they had.
There were reports that they had trained dragons like that, like, you know them a dragon being there is I mean to the medieval mind, like, oh, they finally came back. Cool. They were sleeping in whales or you know, in in Ethiopia or wherever it is we mentally store all these things. But yeah, I think that's cool. I think, uh, I like it.
I like it a lot.
And uh, yeah, I think I think those are some good options. I know there are a lot more, but.
Yeah, I just you know, yeah, those are like the ones that.
Hre go with Dune. If you want to see the Roman Empire in space, you can read the Foundation trilogy, the original win by Isaac Asimov, which is fun. It's like, uh, if the Roman empower was in space, but every thousand years or so, they woke up space Linen for him to tell them everything that they did wrong and why they fucking suck and how they need to fix it, and then they just put him back to sleep for
a while. It's actually pretty funny. But yeah, g yeah, thank you very much for the question, and uh yeah, that is going to do it for us today. Thank you patrons for these questions, Thank you everyone for listening. As we said at the top of the show. We are all over the place. You could check us out. But yeah, eleanor what do you got anything else going on right now?
I mean the main stuff is the main stuff at the minute. I've got some things that I'll probably be putting on the socials later in the month when it comes out. So for example, the talk I gave to get today for the checks will be online at some point in time when I will share it. So the best thing that you can do at the moment, if you're wanting this bullshit is to follow me on the socials at Going Medieval, except on Instagram, where I'm just
doctor eleanor Yaniga, which I never say. I'm trying to get better at Instagram, but you know, yeah, so watch that space because when things come out, I will usually put them on there.
Yeah yeah, yeah, Lucas amazing on this stuff. If you guys know that, you can find our own show, People's Sisty of the Old Republic if you want to hear me chat about us a very niche era in Star Wars. Otherwise, that's gonna do it for us today. Thank you very much for listening, and we will see you next time. Bye.