AI-powered competitive intel is the new snake oil, and executives are buying it by the gallon. While everyone's obsessing over ChatGPT doing their research in 20 minutes, they're missing the point entirely—your buying champions don't need a 30-page report about why your competitors suck. They need ammunition to win internal battles with their CFO, their boss's boss, and six other stakeholders who couldn't care less about your feature comparison chart. Tune in for the brutal truth about why most ...
Jun 26, 2025•47 min•Season 5Ep. 2
What happens when a product marketer leaves the in-house grind to start her own consultancy? According to Alex Virden, it changed how she saw product marketing entirely. In this episode, Virdical founder shares why PMMs aren’t traditional marketers, how consulting rewires your thinking, and what startup leaders really need when they ask for help. From messy handoffs to misaligned messaging, Alex explains the recurring pain points that surface in the go-to-market function and how external voices ...
Jun 12, 2025•47 min•Season 4Ep. 13
If you’ve ever felt a gap between brand and product marketing, we’ve had an expert who’s been in both roles and is telling us that there’s not that different. Brand and product marketing expert Jon Itkin joins We're Not Marketers to dismantle outdated perceptions of marketing. The traditional divide between product marketing and brand marketing is harmful — and that truly impactful PMMs must think and act like "whole hundred marketers." From mastering macro market dynamics to understanding why m...
Jun 05, 2025•50 min•Season 4Ep. 12
Is product marketing really marketing? Or is it something more (or less)? In this deep-dive episode, Humans of MarTech co-founder Phil Gamache joins the crew to unpack what it truly means to be a marketer today—and why product marketing often feels like a misunderstood offshoot of the craft. From the forgotten “P” in the marketing mix to the role of AI in shaping how teams work together, this episode balances reflection, tactical insight, and Phil’s unmistakable chill candor. Learn how product m...
May 29, 2025•47 min•Season 4Ep. 11
Is working fractional that secret weapon for in-house PMMs? In this no-holds-barred episode, Eric, Zach, and Gab debate whether product marketers with fractional experience have an edge when they return in-house. We dive into the gritty reality of juggling multiple clients, the mental health rollercoaster of working solo, and why most people don't understand what it truly takes to do it. Tune in for honest insights, soul-crushing reality checks, and maybe a few Mexican oranges along the way. Her...
May 15, 2025•44 min•Season 5Ep. 1
In this spicy episode, CEO & Founder of Foundation Marketing, Ross Simmonds reveals why content without distribution is just expensive digital paperwork. We dive into why product marketers ARE marketers (yes, even SEOs), how to build "content moats" that will still be paying dividends in 2030, and why LLMs will actually make SEO more valuable, not less. Ross drops some truth bombs about AI scraping the internet that might make you reconsider where you're spending your marketing budget. Why p...
May 08, 2025•54 min•Season 4Ep. 10
Are most B2B marketers actually doing customer research wrong? In this episode, Content Lift founder Ryan Paul Gibson reveals why "just talking to customers" isn't enough and why one-third of marketers can't even get access to customers at all. From his days timing how long people take to put cream in coffee to calling customers without permission, Ryan shares guerrilla tactics for getting real insights when your company stands in the way. Tune in for a masterclass in effective customer investig...
May 01, 2025•46 min•Season 4Ep. 9
Is sounding "enterprise" killing your marketing message? In this episode, conversion copywriter Jessica Malnik joins the crew to expose why the most effective copy isn't about being clever—it's about stealing your customers' exact words. We dive into customer research plays you can use now, why corporate speak is a conversion killer, and how LinkedIn "lunatics" sacrifice credibility for clicks. Tune in for practical tips on creating content that actually converts instead of just sounding smart. ...
Apr 24, 2025•27 min•Season 4Ep. 8
If you're tired of building landing pages that follow "best practices" but still fail to convert qualified leads, this episode will change everything. Whether you're a product marketer afraid of paid ads or a demand gen specialist struggling to get PMM buy-in, this episode will help you create pages that actually respect your buyers' intelligence while driving real business results. This week, we've joined by Tas Bober, growth marketing advisor and Scroll Lab founder. She reveals why the traditi...
Apr 17, 2025•1 hr 3 min•Season 4Ep. 7
Ever wonder why most bottom-of-funnel content feels generic and fails to convert? In this episode, content strategy advisor Lashay Lewis drops knowledge bombs on the critical gap between product marketing and content marketing. She breaks down why teams are working in silos, how bottom-funnel content fails when the reader knows more than the writer, and why product marketers are the unsung heroes of effective marketing. Why the knowledge level of the reader being higher than the writer kills bot...
Apr 10, 2025•40 min•Season 4Ep. 6
Is your win-loss data just expensive fiction written by your sales team? In this episode, Ryan Sorley (ex-Forrester, ex-Gartner) joins the crew to expose the hard truth about buyer research. From ripped jeans costing deals to bootstrapping a business while juggling kids and payroll, Ryan doesn't hold back on his journey from corporate misery to specialized success. Oh, and we uncovered the stupidly simple reason most product marketers fail at research. Tune in for honest laughs, real insights, a...
Apr 03, 2025•41 min•Season 4Ep. 5
Is your message testing just throwing random ingredients into a pot and hoping it tastes good? In this no-holds-barred episode, the boys tackle the chaos of message testing and why most PMMs are doing it wrong. From useless A/B tests with tiny sample sizes to executives demanding "just one more tweak," we dive into what actually works. Tune in for laughs, practical frameworks, and why your mom's cooking method isn't a valid messaging strategy. We're covering: Only 30% of product marketers have e...
Mar 27, 2025•39 min•Season 4Ep. 4
We have a rule here: Never get the same guest twice. Well, we’ve just broken it now because we’re getting Michele Nieberding for the 2nd time! The Director of Product Marketing at Metarouter, the Martech queen and two-time Top 100 PMM, returns to challenge one of the biggest assumptions about product marketers. We dive into the blurred lines between PMM, marketing, and product teams, why some org structures set PMMs up for failure, and how AI is reshaping the role. Plus, Michele drops tactical i...
Mar 20, 2025•49 min•Season 4Ep. 3
Product marketers with a sales background often feel like they have a superpower. The opposite is even truer. Kyle Coleman, CMO at Copy.ai , says yes—and he’s got the career journey to back it up. From SDR to marketing exec, Kyle breaks down why sales and marketing are inseparable, how storytelling (not the best product) wins markets, and why staying close to revenue is the key to career growth. Plus, he shares how he personally closed $350K in outbound sales while leading marketing. ✅ Why story...
Mar 13, 2025•45 min•Season 4Ep. 2
We’re kicking off season 4 with Chanel Chambers, VP of Marketing at Lakeside Software. As a product marketing leader and past music teacher, she’s joining us to break down the role of product marketing, why it's central to a business’s success, and how PMMs can increase their influence. From jazz improvisation to AI-driven business strategies, Chanel shares fresh insights on how product marketers can start treating their role with a business holistic approach and how to create credibility intern...
Mar 06, 2025•42 min•Season 4Ep. 1
In this special recap, we dive into what it really means to be a product marketer in the ever-evolving B2B SaaS space—from defining the role to gaining the trust of executives and product teams. Hear first-hand advice on establishing boundaries, shaping product roadmaps, and showcasing your unique value. Tune in to discover how you can go from feeling misunderstood to being the unignorable voice in your organization. Why product marketing often feels misunderstood—and how to change that. The “se...
Feb 20, 2025•22 min•Season 3Ep. 17
Product marketing and content marketing—are they allies, or just frenemies in disguise? In this episode, Devin Reed (ex-Gong, ex-Clari, and host of Read Between the Lines) joins the crew to dish out his hot takes on the tension between PMMs and content marketers, why most messaging decks collect dust, and the real secret to making content that resonates. If you’ve ever questioned whether product marketing is actually marketing (or just internal storytelling), this one’s for you. What You’ll Lear...
Jan 30, 2025•50 min•Season 3Ep. 16
Ever wondered how a band of misfits turned shared frustrations into a thriving podcast? In this episode, we’re sharing our origin story, revealing how they met, bonded over common pain points in the product marketing world, and turned candid conversations into a platform that challenges industry norms. Packed with spicy takes, behind-the-scenes laughs, and actionable advice, this episode is a testament to the power of finding your people and staying true to your vision. How PMM frustrations spar...
Jan 23, 2025•39 min•Season 3Ep. 15
Are you ready to take the leap into fractional work? In this episode of We're Not Marketers, Gab, Zach, and Eric dive into the realities, challenges, and triumphs of betting on yourself as a fractional Product Marketing Manager (PMM). They explore: The mindset shifts required to succeed in a fractional career. Lessons learned from building your niche and refining your offer. How confidence, community, and obsession fuel success. Why intentional trade-offs and clear goals are the foundation for t...
Jan 09, 2025•57 min•Season 3Ep. 14
The more knowledge you have on product marketing, the better you can be an expert and have more impact on your job. Today, we’re having Peter Kortvel, a senior product marketer at Scandit and the creator of the product marketing newsletter (with 1700+ subscribers). Peter has worked as a video consultant, in startups, cofounded an IoT startup and today shows us what great product marketing should look like. He has 13+ years of experience as a marketer and believes in getting things done (we appre...
Dec 19, 2024•38 min•Season 3Ep. 13
Making your mark as a founding PMM is very difficult, especially when the role itself has an identity crisis. That’s why we’ve asked three product marketers from our audience to join us to talk about their experience, and how to prove themselves valuable (especially when everything wants you to fail) This week, we’re inviting Shoshana Kordova, Aphrodite Brinsmead, and Elliott Rayner to discuss the multifaceted role of product marketing In this special episode, we’re covering: The significance of...
Dec 12, 2024•46 min•Season 3Ep. 12
Episode Description: In this episode of We're Not Marketers , we’re diving deep with Rob Kaminski , one-half of the dynamic duo behind Fletch PMM . Rob’s journey is a masterclass in transitioning from a generalist’s toolkit to a hyper-focused niche, unlocking unparalleled expertise along the way. Together, we explore the unconventional path that led Rob and his co-founder Anthony Pierri to redefine positioning and messaging for early-stage SaaS companies, focusing on the all-important homepage. ...
Dec 05, 2024•1 hr 3 min•Season 3Ep. 11
Ever felt like a misfit in product marketing? You’re not alone. In this episode of We’re Not Marketers , hosts Gab, Zach, and Eric dive deep into a hot topic for PMMs: discovering and honing your unique superpower to stand out in your role. Whether you're a product marketing veteran or new to the field, this conversation is packed with timeless advice, relatable stories, and strategies to help you identify your strengths and position yourself effectively. What’s Inside This Episode? Self-discove...
Nov 21, 2024•31 min•Season 3Ep. 10
In this next episode of We're Not Marketers , hosts Zach, Gab, and Eric are joined by Rahim Kaba, Director and Research Analyst at Gartner, to dive into the evolving role of PMM in B2B SaaS. With over 20 years of experience in the field, Rahim shares data with perspective on the function and challenges that come with it today. Key highlights include: - The Core Identity of Product Marketers: Rahim argues that product marketers are unequivocally marketers, backed by data showing 81% of PMMs repor...
Nov 14, 2024•50 min•Season 3Ep. 9
The role of the PMM is evolving and requires us to always adapt and be knowledgeable on new tech and initiatives. It can make a difference between a product marketer who is valuable and stack influence vs. someone who’s on the layoff list. Someone who keeps pushing the limit of practical product marketing and leveraging projects short-cuts to ship more is Jess Petrella, Senior Product Marketing Manager (PMM) at ZayZoon, and she has an amazing take on becoming an efficient PMM. We discussed how A...
Nov 07, 2024•31 min•Season 3Ep. 8
The worst thing about being a PMM is not having to launch a new product within 2 weeks, or drowning in sales decks. It’s all sharing the same trauma that people don’t understand product marketing. We’ve seen a lot of movement on LinkedIn about PMMs sharing horror stories. Michele Nieberding even did a talk about it at PMA Boston. And we were lucky enough to have her sharing them on the pod, just in time for Halloween 💀 our FAVORITE HOLIDAY 🎃 Michele, the director of product marketing at MetaRo...
Oct 31, 2024•39 min•Season 3Ep. 7
For PMMs, it can be difficult to have a good relationship with sales, especially in new roles. Win-loss analysis and interviews can be a good win when you see that close-lost column piling up on the CRM pipeline. But how can you take another responsibility on your to-do when you’re already swamped? Matthew Reeves, CEO and co-founder of GoldPan, runs a win-loss analysis agency. In this episode, he’s showing us: How to build rapport with sales teams The complexities of positioning and messaging Wh...
Oct 24, 2024•43 min•Season 3Ep. 6
Get ready for some real talk about positioning! In this episode, we sit down with the queen of positioning herself, April Dunford. If your startup’s positioning feels a little “mushy” or your product is getting compared to everyone under the sun, this episode is for you. April shares her no-nonsense approach to tightening up your message and teaching your CEO why positioning isn’t just some abstract marketing concept—it’s the foundation of your success. Whether you’re battling internal buy-in or...
Oct 17, 2024•1 hr 29 min•Season 3Ep. 5
Dealing with the chaos of being a PMM while trying to balance the rest of your life? You’re not alone. In this candid episode of We're Not Marketers , Zach, Eric, and Gab dive into the realities of managing life as a Product Marketing Manager, whether you're in-house or fractional. From overwhelming work expectations to the struggle of balancing personal life, the team discusses how to protect your mental health while handling an always-on work culture. They share personal stories, tips like set...
Oct 10, 2024•31 min•Season 3Ep. 4
In this episode of We're Not Marketers , we sit down with the one and only Jeff Chase, Director of Brand and Product Marketing at Vitally.io , who drops a major hot take— product marketers aren’t marketers (wait, what?!). But Jeff doesn’t stop there. He believes PMMs are the future leaders of marketing, and he’s got the experience and insights to back it up. Tune in as we dive into the evolving role of product marketers in B2B SaaS. From positioning and messaging to why PMMs have the potential t...
Oct 03, 2024•46 min•Season 3Ep. 3
