Daddy for Mayor

so much. Um, I think of thing that's bigger than Halloween. What. Oh, we have a new nephewinginging guests of the pod, my little brother Sam sister from Law Race to the Life Creator herself burned a baby early, beautiful boy. Let's not give all of his details. Social Security a way. I know you are so tempted to Social Security may or may not be number number number. I know you are on your way to listening his full name and street address, and um, we face time with him tonight. You did

are you jealous? What did he say? He said? He said, I'm a baby that was born early and I'm so tiny and I'm swimming in my one You know, I'm in my car seat and I'm dead asleep, but I still look exactly like your little brother, Sam. Man. That baby has no idea how hard I'm going to sniff his head. God, they're so tiny. It's such a little baby. Oh my god. Um, I don't yeah, I can't even process that right now. The baby is home. Everyone's healthy, racist family, a lot of family. Her mom's got in

town from Bosnia. Um, we're staying away because there's a lot of people around the recovery. We're not We're not into girl to the recovery. We would definitely just be a distraction from taking care of the baby. There's plenty. But boy, I want to go. I know I want to see the baby, but I also just want I want race to sleep, to sleep, a real sleep, the sleep of human beings where multiple hours passed um like

I just accidentally did before this recording. I fell asleep, you did, and you woke up like it was as you had a real moment, like a spiritual experience when you fell asleep in the bed, and then I left you to relax for a second, and then I walked back in and you you woke up like a toddler wakes up from a nap. You were like, you were like arching your bag and like getting into You're like standing on your feet practically. You're like, what is sleep? Like?

You're so you're drooling. I was drooling a lot. You had a really abrupt I was panic because I didn't plan to fall asleep. Yeah, it was scary. You never ceased to milk one of those moments for its full dramatic potential. See, you've always accused me of being overly dramatic. And when I like, but You're like, it's just you've you've been around Brent our kids, right, Yeah, who learned it from you? That's just how his face works, how what he thinks and fields. Just he's mimicking his examples,

which includes on a genetic level, he is. This is how we are, baby. We're expressive. It's nurture. Baby. Hey, this expressiveness is pays pays our bills. We we I'm making faces. Can you see it? They go showing up money making sounds like this mug um. But in the the spirit of mimicry, Our kids have rewatched the Charlie Brown Halloween movie called Something About the Great Pumpkin, Great

Pumpkin Charlie Brown. Yeah, they've rewatched it a couple of times now, and they've picked up some bizarre slang from the nineteen fifties or sixties, and so last night there's there's been a lot of like fighting and bickering between them lately for any and all reasons. Yeah, And so they kept I would overhear them talking and they'd be like, if you don't do this, I'm going to pound you.

And they kept they kept threatening to pound each other, like maybe they both do it seriously, and Brenn will be like, well, if you do that, I'm gonna pound you. And then and they clearly don't know what pound me. They were like sucking it out and they were like they clearly are, like they know it's like a threat. But then and you were like, it's hashtag idiots. They like, they really a lot of the slang from this movie has resonated with them. They've been saying rats a lot.

They're like rats and then encourage rats. Yeah, rats is fine. And then they're saying, um, sorry, I'm just leaking at my notes which are not opening there. Okay, they're saying, oh, so Brin was Keet saying he's like, you've got to stop that, you blockhead, and like every sentence he said

would be punctuated by blockhead. But he clearly thought it was like a funny thing to say, so you kind of laugh, and honestly, it would kind of lighten the mood of all of his confrontations, because he's been very dramatically confrontational lately. And he'll be like, you're a bad mommy. If you don't do this, you're not going to be watched TV this weekend. And he's like he's turning, he's using our language on us. Um, I can't tell you the argument that we had in the car today. He

was something about butts and farts. He's like, daddy teachers. Some of the teachers said, I thought it was really funny my thought about farts, and I wasn't fully listening, and then I tuned in and I was like, wait, you're dear. So you think your your teachers like it when you talk about butts and farts And he's like, yeah, most of them. I'm like, I find that hard to believe. He's probably right, and then he and then he goes, yeah, my teacher said to not ask her about it. I go, well,

you know a parent teacher conferences are coming up. I'm gonna ask her about it. And he goes, no, they said the rules are you're not allowed to ask. If you ask, the police will come get you and put you in jail. And so then I just was go to him on and I was like, it's not against the law, it's against the rules. There's a difference because he goes school has laws. Daddy's school has laws. You can't ask. I'm like, well, I'm gonna ask. You go to jail. Like, well, then I'll go to jail, but

I'm gonna ask. He started getting so upset, and then finally he goes, um, I don't ask. Um, Okay, they don't like farts and butts. I lied, I said, I know, they don't like tell the truth. He goes, okay, oh, there's a whole there's another shure. It's going to tell you, but first I'll tell you that he threatened to call the police on me this weekend. And I said, well, what if I call the police on you? And he

said kids can't go to jail. And I did tell him that, and then he repeated this outside because our neighbor who is almost exactly Brind's age, was walking up the stairs with him coming in from outside, and he was like, they were like just talking about some fantasy, nonsense five year old stuff and they're like, and then he'll go to jail and die. And then and they're like just like trying to say like the craziest things they can think of, and then they'll put his butt

in jail. And brand was like, kids can't go to jail. Like this is this his new this is his theme song. Kids can't go to down, Kids can't go to jail. I tried it hard, but they wouldn't let me in. Now kids can't go to jail. According according to his version of events, he has tried. He pulled the fire alarm and they threatened to put him in jail at school. That is when I told him because he said that

he lied to the police. I don't even know if he talked to the police, but I told him he should not lie to the police, and that he goes that anyone of the jail and I said, they won't put you in jail. They're not going to put the little kid in jail. So now he's bragging about how

kids going to jail. Here's one of the major stories over weekend, which I haven't told you, is that they I got home so Sunday morning, I realized that Brenna didn't have skating, and I had a very scant couple of hours to escape and try to do the mountains of work I have to do. And I came home a little frazzled, and my children were very stir crazy from being inside all day, and the house was a disaster, and they both were too edgy to get dressed in

any sort of logical, rational way. They were both the most difficult people ever um and when I would step away from them a second to like clear my head and like put things away, they would like come immediately trying to undo what I'm doing, or start fights with each other, or just like be horrible. So I kept having to pull them apart and like try to calm one down while the other one was like creating pure chaos.

And then I was with Maven and Brinda was in the kitchen and I was trying to get her dressed, and she was like continually naked, but like putting on mittens because I was trying to put the mittens away, you know, like just like annoying and she so then I calm her down. I get her to like finally start picking out real clothes, like I have to get you guys out of this apartment or you're gonna murder me in my sleep. And then Brent, I go walk

into the kitchen. Brent's standing on the counter trying to do something he's not supposed to do, and he spots me startles and not fully standing on the counter, falls off the counter onto the ground, rolls on his side, slams his head into the ground, has like a big bruise, and then he starts pulling a you, which is like wandering around the apartment crying to himself, like recovering, and then just like doing gentle sobs like circles around there. Wow.

You know, sometimes people will actually feel what they feel and their faces showing what they actually feel. I did think that's what he felt, but he was like I would I would be comforting him, and then he'd wander away and then he would just like there. It was just he told me this story lightly he and he told me this bump, it's not better tonight, he goes, it's not better it won't be better for fifty days.

That's how long the of this bump takes to get better. Well, it just it happened on the tail of just like so many many examples of me telling them to not do things that we're gonna hurt them or bother them, and just them both ignoring me. And so I was at that point and as a parent where you're kind of like, you see, go bump your head, idiot, but like I was kind of like I don't want to

like rub it in while he's crying. But there's points where he was recovered as like do you understand why you should listen to me when I am telling you

not to do dangerous things? And like it's just really you trying to find those moments because you you, you it's not good to do that, like when he's still emotional in Europe set and it's the like you see, he's not gonna absorb anything too, but to calm him down and be on his side and then find those little moments to go, do you see where this started so you can recognize it next time, so he can brag about it to Daddy later, brag about what bumping his head he's real proud. It was really such a

dramatic fall. We didn't even talk about Halloween. I was working that night. Was the first Halloween I ever missed. I took the kids around the co op buildings. It was good because we were not especially now that brand is in kindergarten. He has like three friends who live in our co op building community. So you're actually now friends for the first time for real. Yeah, they're like really just being kids. That are they've seen before. I was actually when I was walking in yesterday and we

happened to run into our neighbor across the hall. Her son that I was just talking about the Brin was like, hey, um, I'm really excited to go back to school tomorrow, like he was. He's just talking about like Monday at school when he was like, it's gonna be so cool. We're going to get to see each other. And this other mom was like, I'm so glad that they like school. They do like school except every day when I picked them up again, they're so tired and then they just

lie to your face and everything was bad today. I hate everyone. I'm never doing anything ever again. Did brind go to nature class this week? Because he supposed I didn't ask him about it, but theoretic he did not go to cooking glass um. But he was very weirdly, so daylight savings has happened, as you may recall, and the means uh, in the morning, when I take them super early to the car, the sun was up, whereas it was not up the week before. Brendan may Haven noticed,

that's interesting. When I picked him up it was dark where it was not last week. And Brenn thought that was incredible. It's dark and it was super dark when you pick him up at five. And he said, goes, Daddy, do me a favor and tell Maven when we go pick her up that you love picking me up when the sun is down. And I go, okay, sounds great. Then we picked up Maven, and of course I forgot about it because it was a very weird request request.

And then then really got upset because you didn't tell her. I go, what you didn't tell her about the secret? I had no idea what he's talking about. And then finally he had to like whisper to me. He goes, do you love picking me up in the dark? And he was like on the verge of tears and then I told you, hey, Maven, you know I love picking up breaking bread in the dark, and the Brin just

started laughing hysterically. Mission accomplished. They both keep getting caught up in some incredibly dumb logic where they'll start arguing with each other and then they both lost the thread that but they just keep responding to each other and they're like trying to win. They're like, no, octopuses don't do that, and like maybe it's like in tears and then they're just like, I don't dream of octopus. I don't. Yeah, it's just it's fun. It's fun, fun arguments we're having.

I've I'm learning the to just not engage. Britton goes, I'm gonna make up new rules. Okay, whoever, I eni MENI mini mo, they're gonna be the winner. Well, brand is classic you. He's like, oh, yeah, we can do this as long as I'm in charge. And I tell you that I get to have all the best stuff. Yep. Um. Last thing. I'll talk about it tomorrow. Slash Today, when this episode comes out, is election day. And I explained to Bryan what an election is and he understood it.

I used to for example, our town because I found there was a flyer for UM candidate running for mayor. So I kept talking about, you know, as an example, running for mayor, and he goes, are people going to vote for you? Daddy? I'm like, Wow, probably not. He's like, why you should be? I want you to be mayor. I will vote for you. And I explain I was like, well, brand if I if I am the mayor, I can't be a story part anymore, so I'd have to quit

that job and I have to run the town. And he goes, Daddy, I still want you to be mayor, so please, if you please vote for Peter tomorrow right, and Peter McNerney in whatever local election. Yeah, he'll take any city or town. Yeah, I'll run it if I'm

eligible and I have the majority of the votes. Another weird thing our kids have gleaned from this Charlie Brown movie is that they go off in corners and they're talking to themselves sometimes in and maybe it'll be like you sign the contract, and then they'll they'll just parrot things that they've heard on TV, where you're like, you

don't know what that means? What do you? Yeah? It just makes me realize how many things you know but you you you don't know when you actually actually understood what it was, but you've known it, you know, when you oh something one of those things where you've never stopped and actually thought about what the words themselves mean because it's just a phrase or something you've known your whole life. Are you going somewhere with no end of segment?

And now it's time for my headphone cable to get tangled. And now it's time for a segment called did you notice? This is where we share something we learned that's parenting related. Beth, my love? What do you got? Thank you? My love? Um? Okay, So I just wanted to share this blog post that um some moms I know we're sharing around this week. And I'll be honest, I did not research the heavily, so I don't have a lot of context thing of it.

But it's from a website called Graham Seabrook dot com and it's a blog post from this woman who is a mom coach, and it says an open letter to straight married dad's from a mom coach. And she started it by asking why are you here? Are you here to raise your family? And partnership with someone you love. And then she goes on and sort of asks these dads a series of questions like who is your child's pediatrician, dentist, optometrists, what are the names of your kids two best friends?

And sort of like how many times a week does laundry need to be done in your house? Etcetera, and just sort of she sort of questions the usefulness of heterosexual male partners in a way that, um, I don't necessarily think applies to you, but I think very relevant. I think was resonating very hard with women in different mom groups. I'm in um um. But let me get

to the end here. She says, Uh, parenting is not a spectator sport, and far too many of the mothers that coach tell me how much easier it is when their partners aren't home, because at least then there's no expectation that this time he'll do something to lift the load. If what you bring to your household is a paycheck, then why are you there. You don't have to live

there to support them financially. Are you coming home dumping your feelings about your day on your partner, sitting down to a table to eat and then moving on with your night. You just missed about a million steps, my dude,

and honestly, I'm done. I'm over it, and I've had it up to hear with meeting brilliant, caring, thoughtful mothers who are working to heal their traumas to give their children happy and healthy childhoods, and who keep running into a brick wall of husbands or partners who think that's simply because they're doing more than their dads did, their heroes more than five percent is only. Parenting is complicated, exhausting, labor, intensive, logical, emotional,

mental work. Holding onto your personhood as a mother in today's world is all of that and more so. Dad's my question is why are you here? And she goes on anyway, Um, I just started reading this article as you were sharing it, and you should. Obviously everyone's situation is different, but just starting to read these questions, uh um, really makes its point quite clearly. Can I read some of these questions? Go for it? Um? Okay, So yeah,

this is a good thing to ask yourself. What are the names of the people who care for and or teach your children? What are their school policies? How long does your kid need to be fever free before they can go back to school. Who is your child's pediatrician? Where they located? What is there, what are their hours? What is their phone number? Does your child like them? Dentist? Optometrist? What are the names of your two kids two best friends? What are their parents names? What size of clothes and

shoes to your kids wear? Where where do you usually buy them? Where are your kids were? What are your kids worried about right now? What are they excited about, what are they scared of? What do they want most? Who do they love? Um? How many times a week does laundry need to be done? It's you know, the child care is not always uh shared equally amongst parents, and that's part of the deal that different couples make

in terms of who's working and who's not. But by reading this list of questions, I thought was a really uh simple, brilliant way of painting a picture of what um a person is doing all day to take care of children, you know what I mean? And also I wanted to take that quiz because I could answer every

single one of those questions, every single one of them. Well, they don't have optometrists, but every single one I don't know if you like, I don't know if you would get on this quiz, ask me, I don't know if you get a percent on this quiz. That's true, but I like you. Okay, how many loads of laundry need to be done per week? Need to? I mean, if

we're doing it right, we do. This is the thing whenever like a mental load thing comes up that you're unaware of, you like hetero specual men trying to paint a picture of women as being like obsessive about it for knowing what needs to get that like if you're accumulating a certain amount of laundry pool needs to get done at some point, Like sure, sure, but I mean if if if we're doing it as much as like a part of a nice red of the routine, it's like four times a week, but you could wait a

little longer and do two overly big loads. Okay, But like this is how you are with like baths and a lot of things where it's like fine, I'll let it slide because you're more on top of other day to day things. But like the thing is, it's like the weeks where I'm not on top of it. It's like I go to me and our kid at his school on Halloween, and he's in a costume getting sweaty, and I'm like, this kid smells. This is a stinky kid. Because you know, I'm the only parent who is paying

attention to how much this kid smells. I'm paying attention. I don't. I hate I hate baths and I hate laundry. I hate I hate that time. I don't know why I gave them a bath tonight, because boy, they were stinky. I did it, but you're right I do. But also, like you know, I think we we have we have those things. For you, it's trash and dishes. I do more of those, and your's is laundry and baths, and we both make an effort on the opposite ones that we don't do as much. But you put dishes in

the dishwasher. I heard them into the kitchen from your desk, and like living room, in the bedroom and the table. I think we're definitely, we're definitely equal. But you have pointed out the things that I'm weak as that. But I don't take out the trash. That's one thing I don't do. You literally never do. But that's fine. I know that, and I take pride. I'm I'm the trash guy. I'm really good at it. I'm great. It's separating recycling. Wow, congratulations,

Um yeah um, but yeah. I think the difference is when as a woman, I think I'm much more likely to know the areas where I'm weaker in, whereas I think you, yes, I believe that the areas that you're not doing are either not important or not happening. It's you're just completely like associated from Because I have learned so many things, I've become aware of so many things that I was blind to before. I one, I'm like, oh, I see so much more than I ever did before.

So I accept the idea that there will always be something else that I just can't see right now. That's why everyone should always if you feel like you're doing seven percent, you're hope you're maybe doing fifty. Um. I subscribe to that more than I ever have before. But I think the thing that's great about this blog post is exactly that is, you read all those questions and you're suddenly shedding light on things that you just might not be thinking about. You look at all the work

that's going on. That's that's you're aware of. And you go, oh, I'm crushing it. I'm doing all this stuff, but read this super long list of all these little details, and then it's it's like it just shines lights in these areas you didn't even know where there. Maybe, And even if your duties within a couple are distributed differently and it's not doing the exact same things, being aware of what your partner is doing is the is incredibly healthy.

Incredibly healthy. Um yeah, I just think I know that you're doing a lot of day to day stuff. I just still think there's like big picture stuff that I feel like I feel obligated to be tuned into that I don't think you always are. And I'm not saying I'm shouldering all of that, but like, like, for example, this weekend, like when I left the kids with you to do work and stuff, I feel like you were at your computer most of the time while they were

just getting more and more stir crazy. And then when I get home, I have to like clean and deal with them and make sure they get outside and make sure laundry is done for the weekend, and then like realize that Brian's shoes are falling apart and he needs new sneakers, and like there's just like all those little things that you're like, Okay, it's a weeknda have to make the most of it and like make sure these things are running smoothly going into the week. Like I don't.

I'm not like, you do do a lot of stuff. So I'm not saying you do nothing, obviously, but there as is stuff like that where I'm just like, I don't always know how bad these things would get without you realizing. Well, those are great examples of where you know, the shoe falls apart, and then I'm like, well, time to get new shoes, and you're looking ahead on those

things I know that I am better at. But there's also a little like quality of light things where I'm like, I'm not saying I'm a hero, but like every day I make sure that like the blinds and like curtains are opened in our homes so we get natural light coming in the way human beings are meant to live. And I you know, the only the only reason I opened the curtains is because I'm like, oh, Beth will come in here and not want to see this. I do it for you if I do it at all.

But yeah, but where I am stronger where I am better? Is that like I'm going to pay all of our bills, I'm going to take the car, and I'm going to make sure the doctor appointments made. Your way of interacting with it is so funny to me because like you like you know the doctor's name, you know where he is, you know when the doctor year, the appointment needs to happen.

If our kids were getting sick, I don't know that you would be like, oh, maybe they should stay home, or maybe I should call the doctor and ask about this, or you like, what are you talking about? That's what I do. That's my job when they're sick. Yeah, who takes into urgent care every time? It takes the daughter I've got. I'm the one who saved an old doctor's

note on my computer. Is like I'm not talking about when you try to drop them off a daycare and then daycare rejects them and says, these kids are too sick. You need to go get it. I know this is you're talking about me. That doesn't exist anymore because you under the school sick policies, Beth, what are the schools sick? Yes? When can you take your kids back to school. I know how it is for daycare. It's usually twenty four hours without a fever. That's not what it is at daycare. Okay,

what is it. It's much stricter than that. That is what it is for school. You can't take them back and if it's been twenty since they've thrown up or had a fever, and in daycare it's you could never take them back ever until they've had twelve doctors appointments, and twelve doctors until they had a second opinion. And okay, so you are reinforcing. My appointment is that you know when people are forcing you to take your kids to the doctor. I know what the policy I'm talking about.

You know the policy, you know the names I'm talking about. I agree, And I am the one who will wake up in the morning, look at my kids and say, this is a kid who cannot go to school today. You are right, you know what I I will find. I'm like, how do I just how do you just get through this moment? It's fine, it's fine to a fault, but boy, I know all the details. I know all the factors, I know all the rules, I know where we're going. I just I'm not not so worried. I'm

not as worried as maybe I should be. Okay, well, um, I think we complement each other. Well, yeah, I'm not saying those things are not valuable. I'm just saying I just it's not the whole picture of what needs to get done. Someone needs to sniff the air and be like, this apartment is rancid, These children are rancid. Someone needs to sniff a butt and realize that button needs a tub. You know what you were at a very smart idea,

and this illustrates your point. I think, Well, is that you texted me or something about them needing to take a bath, and you said, we also need to clean out those cupboards. So when do you take one of those bath bombs to get them to get into the tub. You know what, Brenda wouldn't get in the tub, and I threw a bath bomb in there and he then he wanted to get in the tub. Yeah, that's because big picture. I'm like, Okay, dear Lord, I have to

renovate this bathroom. I'm gonna have to take that cabinet of the bathroom. I had to do X, Y Z ten million other things. That cabinet needs to be cleaned out. There's a bunch of bath bombs in there for some reason. I all, my kid needs to bathe. My my brain is like a serial killer's wall map of like trying to keep my children alive, and my brain is I'm I'm just looking at the current pin on the wall map, and then I go, oh, there's a red string, and

I just started following the red string. I go, there's another pushpin. I'm gonna follow this red string. You're You're like a boomer who just figured out how to drop a pan on Google map. Oh take that, boomers. Uh yeah, I need I do. I definitely need to step back um away from my corkboard in my dimly lit garage to take a look at the big map and not just look at the pushpins. It's a shockingly good metaphor. Oh boy, this has been Did you notice now it's

time for listeners want to knows? So last week um, a listener wrote in asking for recommendations of books where sort of gender roles were reversed. Specifically, she mentioned wanting stories about basically girls who misbehave um and boys who carry the emotional labor, and we were unrecommended, not very good recommendations. But luckily you guys wrote in with some more delivered. Um. So one message I got from an Instagram message says, um, they recommended the book called Marlene Marline,

the Queen of Mean. She says, it's a library book my daughter brought home about a girl who is the bully. If a female instead of a male bully doesn't break gender stereotype, maybe I don't understand the concept. That's what I think she understood the conpt. I think she understood the concept. That's great, I got. I got a bunch right here. Um. Someone wrote in. This is from Della.

She said, listen to your podcasts where a listener asked about some good books for challenging traditional gender roles, and she cited a list that she found from the New York Times. My kiddos only only twenty months old, so I can't speak for everything on the list, but I checked out a bunch and my little one, uh and myself really enjoyed them. My faiths were Frannie's father is

a feminist. Shows a little girl who likes to be a messy and dirty sometimes and her dad who takes on some of the traditional women's roles and Teddy's favorite toy about a little boy who loves a doll and is pretty superhero esque. Mom My kiddo's faiths were Shark Lady. Maybe he just liked the sharks. And Julian is a Mermaid. Oh, we just got Julian Is a Mermaid, which I read

this last night. I have to say, the illustrations in this book, as someone who is an illustration major who for two semesters took children's book illustration classes, the illustrations in Julian Is ammer made are incredible. Um. And they also sort of they reference like the Brooklyn Mermaid Parade, So it felt I don't know, it feels very reminiscent of my college experience in a way that warmed my heart. Um.

But it's it's really beautiful, I will say. In terms of reading it, there's pages without words, so you do have to kind of like explain what's happening on the page. Well, you know what I did, is um Normally I do that. I explain everything. I over explain. Yeah, you love to never stop talking. I love to explain, but I didn't. I just turn the page and I sat there quietly and I let them absorb each page, and I saw them really looking and listening and thinking until they started

chiming up about things. Well, I will say, what's cool about this book is, like we've talked in the podcast sort of about like books that deal with sex and

gender and different issues. And one of my peppies about this type of progressive books is sometimes you get ones that are too didactic or like like trying to force lessons down your throat too literally, and that the beautiful thing about Jillian is a mermaid, which has no words on some pages, as like you're watching this young boy sort of like fall in love with these mermaids and

then sort of put on this costume. And it's very ambiguous as to this kid's gender representation or sexuality or whatever, but it's just this kid. It's this kid's joy for those mermaids. Like it's great in his dreaming of himself. There's those pages where he's on the train or whatever

and he sees these women dresses mermaids. Then you see him thinking, and then there's illustration of him step by step morphing into a mermaid, and then they see and he's underwater as this beautiful mermaid with long hair and and they don't spell it out like, oh, this is a boy who wants to be a girl. No, it's not that specific. Uh, it's exactly that. It's just this kid exploring his love of being. There's no there's no

lecture to the book. It's beautiful and you know what's cool, It's like, um, Britain has been asked mentioned for a couple of months now the idea that he for some reason he wants purple sneakers, and only in the context of the sneaker discussion does he claim that his favorite color is purple in my experienced before. No, but so it's like, I don't really know if that's true or he's just saying that. But then I talked about getting him any per sneakers because his they're falling apart. And

then he said again, then he wanted purple sneakers. So we went to the toyster in town that sells sneakers, which was closed, and then we went across the street to this other store and they measured his feet, which is cool. And then we looked at the sneakers on the wall and there was some bully sneakers, but they

were clearly girls. Where they were like pinky purple whatever, and I was like, it was one of those weird things where you're like, well, I want to get him what he wants, but I want to make sure he really wants it and he's going to be comfortable wearing it. And so he pointed at one that was like it was just a really pale purple, whereas like, I don't I don't know if this is really what you want. But I was like, I'm going to support this. So I asked them to look for the size, and then

I took I took him down. I was like, I just wanted to be real because I don't want to pay for a pair of sneakers he's not gonna wear. I was like, okay, Bryn, if you like these sneakers, I will get them for you, but I just want you to know if you could wear these schools, some kids might call them girly, and I just want to make sure you're still gonna want to wear them even

if people say that. And he said yeah, and then they went to gether sneakers, and then they didn't have his size and that pair of sneakers, and then he got really bored of being in the sneaker store and we left and I was like, well, now I know his sneakers, isn't gonna order him other purple sneakers, So I got him some purple high tops that feel fairly gender ambiguous to me. But I was like, not that

it really matters what he wanted. But I don't actually don't think from past experience that he's like super comfortable with other kids commenting on his appearance. What are yeah? And well, it's just I don't know. It's more I think what I am sensitive to for some weird reason is like I it's it's like an aesthetic thing. And again I went to art school. I love all the colors. There's something about when things get like glitter e and girly where I it doesn't appeal to me personally. And

then if I don't know, I just my own hang up. Um, I have that too, But I figured it was it was some sort of gendered thing in my brain. But until Maven, who's like, I love glittery pink. I love her love of it because it is so deep and true, whereas brand one day saying I love purple, I'm like, since when I like her love of it? But I just think there's something in my brain that loves like saturated colors, which is kind of like not I don't like like pale pastel, like I want like a bold

version of the color. Every apartment we've lived in, the colors on the walls have gotten more pastel because we've you've we've started bold, and they've just come down a bit. But we still have bold colors. And I love it and I love you. This email goes on. You guys discussed gender a lot, which I really appreciate. The book I read a while back was quite interesting parenting beyond pink and blue. Wow, just like what we're talking about. Have you read it? Nope? I thought it was fascinating.

Some take ways for me were one, how often we say things that subconsciously enforced gender grouping. The book quotes studies that talk about how kids will strongly identify with any group they are put in, and we as adults constantly categorized boys and girls in our language. I'm a teacher, so this was very applicable to me. Things like girls came here, etcetera. Also language like wow, you're getting to be such a big boy. Why not insert kid instead?

To the automatic default to he when describing unknown gendered animals. I think about this stuff a lot and have done a lot of things to avoid gender stereotypes from my kiddos. For example, um era as i e. We found out the gender before birth, but didn't tell anyone so that any gift we received wouldn't be gendered. Try that everyone hates you for it. I was shocked when I realized how often I defaulted to the pronoun he when describing things. Oh look at that bear? What color is he? What's

your stuff? What's your stuffed horse? Can you bring him here? I've tried to be better, but it has been hard. Anyway, the book explains a lot more eloquently than I just did, and back stuff up with research. One last question, quite aware. Quite a while back you had a list on the podcasts of books for young kids that deal with sexuality changing bodies. I can't remember which it was. Do you have a written list somewhere or maybe you can remember

which podcast was? Thanks? I flipp and love your podcast, Adela. I've been thinking about all of those things, Della. In terms of the default pronoun of he, specifically for animals, I've noticed hard to break out of that. We're all programmed to do it. I mean, we're all programmed to do a lot of things. One thing I think me and a lot of people I know lately have been trying to do stop calling things crazy or insane. Like

it's just really hard to get work. Like you stop using certain words in your vocabulary that you're used to using. You know, um, it's working in story part says um. But has forced me to word like that crazy and insane. I've noticed when I'm telling them bedtime stories at night, because we always kind of come up with an animal or creature or something and then we'll say, you know, we'll start telling a story with that, and like, my impulse to label it as a male is really strong. Yes,

I've I've first story times, we make up stories. I've been trying to default to she. Of course it doesn't have that much so at best time, I'm going fifty um at best at best but yeah, but we're going to get our numbers up though. It's so hard not to be like those here's my big girl, who is my little girl? My girl? Why can't you say a girl?

I mean, just the these weird there are I do have the thought I think it's fine to be like, you're such a big boy, but there is something you are separating our I feel like i'm word, I'm separating our two kids by continuing to define them by their gender. I definitely worry about that, and I do think it is like it's worth watching out for, like where that

creeps into our expectation of their behavior. But I also think there's a lot of moments lately where like, especially with Mayven, she she's really loving being a girl right now, and I don't want to take that away from her. I want her to if like if that's if she continues to identify as a girl, like she should love being a girl, Like why you know what I mean, Like, um, yeah, yeah, there's it's really easy to fall into these the sort of absolute isms, Um, when you're trying to do the

right thing. Um well, I think also, here's the thing. It's like, you know, there's nature and nurture, and you're never going to create the best conditions for anything, and it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, because we're all unique individuals who are made up of a combination of nature and nurture. And what's sort of beautiful about it is, you know, these varying environments we've all lived in our own weird crock pot of identities.

So like when Mayven goes to daycare and she's around a lot of little girls, and the women who are in the daycare are Spanish speaking women who mostly don't speak much English. I do think there is a tendency of them in general to like glorify kind of like girly things, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's rubbed off on Maven a little bit. But I also think

Maven just has a tendency to like those things. So I think she's just you know, yes, it's reinforcing it a little bit more than maybe necessary, but like it's I think she's enjoying it. She's feeling like she's loving herself, you know what I mean. Like it's not well, there's

this thing. This actually is applicable to a text exchange ahead with my little brother today where I don't know why I was thinking of this, but he he's the behavioral science science writer and neuroscience and and so knows a lot about this stuff. I texted him, I said, is there a word for when people react? To learning that something they thought was a hard and fast rule

isn't entirely true. For example, some facts have unintended side effects by completely turning on the entire concept, for example, anti vaxers, and then I said, also, how's your baby? He said, good. Question sounds like the version of the base rate fallacy. So the fallacy is that people ignore the fact that the vast majorities of vaccines do not have unintended side effects, that's the base rate, and instead

focused on a specific piece of information. My point being a lot of times when people realize, you know, things like oh, gender norms are create to this negative side effect, and you realize that, oh, there's there's these negative things to go let's reject all of it a thousand percent um.

I've I've realized that a lot of those things I've gone too far in some respects where I realized, like, oh, there, for some kids like Maven, this is naturally what they are drawn to, and there's there is a truth, and there is a nuance two gender norms that they're attached to some real things many times, and it's it's it's of course always far more complicated nuance than these sort

of like absolute stances. Well, I think this kind of creeps into like our discussions of privilege sometimes, where like you, you know, we'll have different people who are privileged for various reasons race, gender, economics, and like you sometimes sometimes like people just to get a really funny example, so like, sometimes people have a privilege that we all deserve to have, but we don't feel like we deserve to have it

because we're so used to not having it. And sometimes people have a privilege that no one should have, but because we're so caught up in this rat race of trying to have what other people are having, we instead of realizing that no one should be able allowed to do that, we are mad that we don't have that.

So like I was, like, these are kind of weird just conversations I have with like cab drivers and lift drivers where I'll feel like we're on the same page of like wanting things to be better for the world

at large. And like I had a lift driver the other day who like this, this car drove by us, like really erratically and fast on the west side Highway and cut us off and whatever, and we both were just like, oh my god, like that's crazy, and I assumed we're both mad because this car could hurt someone and you know, kill someone. And my lift driver was like, if I drive like that, I would get pulled over. Like like he was like, I can't get away with driving like that, Like he was mad that he can't

do that. And this is like I think, where sometimes we make the conversation much cloudier than it needs to be because when you when we lose our focus on what's important, which is like in my mind, like you know, basic things like everyone should have housing, healthcare, um, a living wage, Like you know, we get we get thrown off because we're we get caught up in these like side discussions of like well, who's allowed to sleep with

their staff? And like you know, like it's just like, I don't know, it just gets off track, That's what I'm saying. I see what you're saying. I was like during that, I was like, oh, oh are we going this way with it? Like oh, okay, all right, I got it, But I like, I don't know. I think we make we we find this like one fault in the system, and then we try to we try to

make it broad sweeping statements about it that should not apply. Yeah, I'm just very attracted these days to nuance, you know, not the Internet and the way it's set up a lot of the time where you know, especially if you're in your your Twitter bubble or whatever in Facebook and you're like, look at this thing, this thing is false.

Let's reject the entire system instead of going, oh, that is an interesting example, Let's get into the bigger picture, you know, get out of your bubble, read some dry research, learn about it, and go to the boring stuff, because that's where things, the practical world stuff read the read

the raw transcript. Well, there was a really good quote um from Barack Obama this week where he was sort of talking about like this sort of like woke culture, which I don't even really think he's not really talking about being woke so much as like people who are really reactionary about it. But like he's talking about how like everyone's like looking to call each other out these days, you're slipping up or whatever, and he's sort of like, if all you're doing out there is casting stones, then

you're not helping, Like you're not. There's so many other things you could do to actually right these wrongs or like try to fight inequality or what other rather like And I don't think he is saying like you can never comment on things blah, you know, Like but if that's your only focus, like is to try to make yourself feel important by trying to call other people out, then like that's probably not really helping. It's like having

a again. It's like having a fight on Twitter. We're like, hey, here's a here's a real thought, and someone like, you know, in a hundred characters, fuck this, Oh great? Are we having a conversation just absolutely bad or absolutely yeah? And it's kind of like when there's important stuff happening, like you know, the presidential election and stuff, which I think in we should know more than ever is like kind

of an important thing um that affects people's lives. If people are going into that discussion and their only perspective is to try to like criticize candidates and never put themselves out there and support anyone or any idea or anything, then you're not helping anyone, you know. Do you do you? All? Right? What are you going to say? Do you want to endorse the candidate? Say do your homework, getting into the boring stuff, reading the boring articles, alright, we're past timing.

We have so many more recommendations. We're gonna have to do it next week. We're going to make a list of all the recommendations for books that you send in to prepare the next time. If you've got more, send him in. You guys are great. This has been another episode we know as parenting. If you'd like to write in, send us another recommendation, ask us question, tell us something we don't know, Send us a would who knows hypothetical

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