Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus, Abba Father, what a privilege it is to be here today recording, having conversations about things that matter in our world today. I ask for wisdom, for guidance, for both Adam and myself, and I pray for our listeners. I'm so thankful for them as they've been reaching out and asking questions and sharing things and even pushing back at times, and I'm thankful for all of it, Lord. We learn through it all. So bless whoever listens to this podcast.
Maybe somebody stumbles on it. Lord, may they be refreshed and encouraged and inspired. And may they someday be able to say, wow, we get to do this in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. It's Wednesday, March 18th, 2026. We get to do this. This is episode number 25. We get to do this. Yes, we do. We get to do this. Cheers, brother. Cheers. We got the Black Rifle coffee going. You got the Beyond Black. I'm doing the Just Black. Oh, I didn't know there was a different. I'm a notch
down. Oh, OK. Oh, there's so many different flavors. It's crazy. I'm in need of this. It's been an incredible week, a good week. a really good week so far. It's only Wednesday. It's a good week. That's what I'm talking about, brother. It's a good week. I've had good technical things, just good stuff happening. Had a nice afternoon with my wife and we had a nice dinner and just, yeah, just fantastic. every night almost. Tina's always saying, you know, I cook every night.
I'm like, I guess that walking in and out that I do is anyway, she, she does plan. I think it's the planning more. You know, it's like, okay, what should we have? This cut of beef or this cut of beef? There it is. Yeah. We just placed our order for hometown meats. Yeah. Those guys are so good. Love it. Love it. I had my last ribeye last night. So I'm like, We got to get
this order done. So yeah, we got that in. We did a tri -tip last night with espresso rub from Gigawatt Coffee Roasters by a man in Chicago in Illinois. Wow. So good. Remind me again, who did the pickles for us? Jody White. Well, it's she sends them to us. Thank you, Jody. She wants to make them, she wants them to rebrand as the Pickle Princess because we've promoted it so much. But man, those things are good. Oh my gosh. Did you finish it off? Almost. I'm rationing.
Yeah. So I'm down to the last like two pickles. And I think I've got an onion and a jalapeno. And that's it. I don't even want to eat it. I probably will drink the juice. It's that good. And Bo, right, makes some Did I get that right? Yeah, Beau. Thanks, Beau. You're awesome. It's been a long time since I've actually rationed myself on anything, certainly pickles. They're too good. Today's episode has been months in the making. And it really started, gosh, I can't
believe what episode that was. We were talking about... Yeah, it's been a few back. about replacement theology. Didn't we call it the Israel conundrum? No, even before that we were doing that. Before that. I think we were doing it before this. We've hit on this several times. We have. And there's so much spinning around in the podcast podosphere, as we call it. And it's literally like Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Candice Owens, who
am I missing? It's exhausting. And they're all yelling at each other and they're all like, you need to denounce him, denounce her, denounce this. And it all comes down to, well, this started years ago and certainly perked up after October 7th. And all we've heard is labels like Christian Zionists and all these. And this to me was like, I need to figure out where all of this is coming from. And it's kind of been presented as a binary option. You're either... Clarify that. You're
either a Christian Zionist or you're not. Yeah, there's no other option. There's no other option. And, of course, now everything is spun up with what's happening in Iran. So I want to give a little bit of historical background on Iran, our involvement in there, because people really don't know. Any history and even even I had to brush up a lot and like okay, where actually does this all come from and you know when you understand the history of Iran and The British
involvement and the US involvement. It has always been about one thing and one thing only can you guess? Oil I was gonna say money, but that's always been one thing and one thing only yeah, and so When we see the, it was a national security advisor, I think quit his job this morning saying two things. The president only focused on one, which is Iran pose no threat. But he also said, we've been led into this by Israel, basically.
And so when I look at this claim that we have been dragged into something for Israel's behalf, It's laughable on its face. Just because of, look at what's happening. What is the result of this? The result is the constriction of flow of oil through the straits of Hormuz, which have been a problem for decades and decades, but even in the last couple of years. I mean, it may have been cool to just watch the helicopter footage of the Houthis landing on the oil ship, but this
has been an ongoing problem. This has been an ongoing issue. And without the Straits of Hormuz open, Saudi Arabian oil can't come through. Qatari gas can't come through this. And of course, Iranian oil, which mainly has been sanctioned by all countries in the world and goes to China and to other places. So first, let's understand outside of the terrorism funding aspect, when did this
really start? And it started in the early 1900s when Churchill decided to switch the British Navy and the British Empire was a naval seafaring empire. They conquered all these countries and turned them into the big Commonwealth. The saying was the sun never sets on the British Empire
anywhere. They changed their naval vessels from coal which Britain had enough of to oil this was no combustion engine had come in now and so now we're going to use oil to power our ships, we don't have any oil so they went looking for
oil and Back in the day. Certainly if you go looking around the region, which was not Iraq or Iran or Syria or Jordan it was Persia Of course the Ottoman Empire which was this whole area and they were starting to break apart of their own accord because it's all just tribal They went, you know We should probably go take a look over there and you could walk through certain places and your feet would step into oil and
wow That's how they found it. Literally. It was just so much of it And so the Brits at the time had learned a very very smart trick, which they had pulled off in China which was opium war. So they got all these people in today, modern day Iran, and Iraq is also a part of this, got them hooked on opium. And so they got this great deal with the tribal rulers of the time in Iran. We'll take all your oil, and we'll give you 10 % of that. Typically, it's like a 50 -50 at least,
you know, so no, we'll take all of that. Have another toot of opium, you'll be fine. And so that was the beginning. But all of these different tribal regions, it was a problem because you had to continuously keep that flow of oil safe. There were some pipelines that they even put in early on, which is now modern day Syria, and
they were piping that up. So they decided to start funding all these different little groups and tribes to fight each other and stay occupied, you know, the divide and rule so they could just continue to get the oil. Now around this we got World War One coming up around this time actually after World War One, which was also partially about oil because the Germans now they were building
ships. They wanted oil. There was lots of stuff going on even in African region and the Brits and the French two guys actually Sykes and Pico. You may have heard of this a Sykes Pico agreement. They decided let's carve up the Middle East and you guys will be responsible for this part and we'll be responsible for this part." And they just drew some lines in crayon and a napkin and said, we'll call this Iraq, we'll call this Iran, we'll call this Jordan, we'll call this Syria.
The region of Palestine was really, a lot of it was Jordan at the time, mainly Jordan, some Syria, and of course it moved all over the place including Egypt. And that was really the beginning of the oil the oil dominance of the British. So they had the Anglo -Iranian Oil Corporation, which then was later known as BP. And they had this great, great idea in 1917 called the Balfour
Declaration. And the Balfour Declaration was, again, so we're looking at war times, we should probably Create a place for the Jews and why don't we make it in there kind of their homeland
here in Israel? Because they on one hand will protect another Import will be another force for another important part of the country of the world, which is the Suez Canal I knew that would come into play of course later and so now we have now I'm speeding through the years and I'm not a historian, but I have it pretty well in my head Even if you watch The Crown, you'll
see some of this. So you have the Suez Canal, and then there's always, like Egypt always has revolutions, like every three years there's some revolt going on, to this day almost. So Nasser comes in, he was a military leader, and he's like, you know what, we're taking control of the Suez Canal, so big problem for the Brits. It's arguable whether they funded the beginning of it or took a small group and started funding
them. the Muslim Brotherhood. And this to this day has been used mainly by the British, but also by other people and their own autonomous, they've grown so big to control parts of the region. So, you know, this idea of building a state for the Jews has always been historically a geopolitical initiative, not a biblical initiative.
And Napoleon even tried to do that. And, you know, he's like, He wanted the Jews out of France, which a lot of people still see him as a friendly towards the Jews, but he wanted to basically get them out, put them in the same place. It didn't work out for him. He lost in different places, and of course Waterloo, and that was all over. So the Brits had this Iranian oil, and we benefited from it as well, also to keep it stable. And then in 1953, Iran was essentially
becoming a republic. They had democratically elected leaders. They had a prime minister. And the Brits were like, this is no good because we need to keep these guys kind of disorganized and fighting each other so we can continue with oil. And so this was Prime Minister Mossadegh. And he said, you know, This thing that these Brits did, we got to end this. We're going to nationalize the oil, which would mean all of the rights to the oil go away. And now Britain
has a problem because they have this. And there's only three oil companies at this time. You have British Petroleum. You have Royal Dutch Shell. And the Dutch bought Shell. And you had Standard Oil. You had Caltex or whatever it was. So those are really the three big oil companies. And so we decided, and I say we, the CIA and the British Secret Service, MI6, in 1953, we implement Operation Ajax. And I love these names. And this is historical,
historical fact. So we now crush this secular nationalist path for Iran and we bring in Shah Mohammed Pahlavi. who his son is still considered to be the royal crown prince. It was really just some dude they put in there. All right, so now you're going to have the power. So for two decades, everything's going well. But the religious leaders, and this includes Khomeini, they felt that this had always been a betrayal by the Americans and by the British. which quite honestly, it was.
We came in there, did some regime change because we didn't like that they were democratizing. So the Shah at a certain point launches what was known as the White Revolution. And this was not accepted by any of the religious leaders in Iran. They kicked Khomeini out. He's in exile for 15 years. But this builds and builds and builds and builds. And then by 1978, 1979, the Islamic revolution is about ready to kick off.
And so the first thing, well, not the first thing, but one of the things they do is they, you know, so they send the royal family goes on vacation. They wind up in France. They've lived there for, you know, forever, basically never to come back. They were exiled. It's a whole big mess. And then they go in, the students go in, it was a student uprising, go into the U .S. embassy and they, keep all these embassy workers, I think it was about 50 or 60 of them, hostage for 444
days in total. You remember this. And why was this? They were getting all the documents that CIA had shredded. Embassies are always covered for CIA. It's the CIA station. So the CIA had shredded all these documents. that proved that we had done Operation Ajax with the Brits. And they took all these snippets, brought it over to the schools and said to the kids, you like puzzles, right? Put this together. And they spent these hundreds of days putting it all together.
So there was proof positive that we had actually done that. So Jimmy Carter, he was trying to get the hostages out. The whole thing was still such a mess because Ronald Reagan didn't want those hostages to come out before the election because he thought that Jimmy Carter would be seen as a hero for getting the hostages free. And no one really understood at the time what it was about. We only know that in hindsight.
So our CIA actually actively worked with the Islamists saying, can you just hold back just a few more days until after November? And Carter was actually trying up until January, you know, whenever the handover was, he was still as president actively trying to get that done. And then, of course, Reagan gets into office, boom, it's all taken care of. So this is really how the Mullahs and the Ayatollah came to power. And this is where all of the problems started, or the modern
day problems. So it was a puppet government. That's literally what they called it. They called it the puppet government. So now you know why the so -called crown prince son is like, oh, I should come back. But even that was the puppet. His dad was the CIA MI6 puppet. And so really, that's why I think President Trump is not interested in him. because they know how to do a secular, democratically elected government. And they were a republic, just like the United States, a republic.
So this has always been about oil. And now you just add to it that they were taking all of that. And I would say in a way on behalf of the the British system. It's not like King Charles is personally responsible, but the banking system, the shipping system, the insurance system, it all runs through the City of London banking system.
And the estimate is that for every barrel of oil that comes through the Straits of Hormuz, $5 to $15 is just insurance premium, just extra money that only has to be paid to Wall Street banks, City of London banks, City of London insurance companies are just banks. So they love this. They love the problems in the Middle East. Keep it going. And it's lucrative. Of course, the problem is Israel. The Jews turned out to not
be so subservient. And so they smart and they started fixing the country they had been given that, you know, and this is where the argument comes down to, or they deserve or they by covenant should have. And this creates all of this tension. The United States is allied, of course, with Israel because that is our, as we call it, the aircraft carrier in the sand. And this is where in the past we have also continued to poke and make sure stuff keeps. the tension goes on in
the region. I mean, and I could go into Kuwait and Iraq and Saddam Hussein who we all loved until we didn't love him. We are not good actors in all of this historically. So let's just put that in front. So at this point, we have Iran using their power to fund all kinds of destabilizing forces, not all necessarily just to get rid of Israel, but to destabilize Lebanon, destabilize Syria, destabilize Iraq, to some degree destabilize
Egypt. That has been the system that we just needed that to keep that sweet sweet oil flowing at a premium that really kind of the British financial empire controlled. And why was that? When the Brits converted from this global empire of land to a global empire of finance. And they were in the game way before Wall Street came along. So those two are kind of symbiotic. Okay,
so that's the truth of what's happening. And right now, President Trump, he did what every president has every president since Roosevelt has said, we need to take care of Iran. These guys are a problem. And whether it was the Wall Street people who said no, or whoever was saying no, no president ever did it. And now we see all the problems that have arisen from Iran being able to do whatever they do. Could they actually
have nuclear weapons? I don't know. I've been here next week for 10 years, maybe, maybe not. It was a pretext. But the idea was we've got to get it back to where it was. play fair with them, we want to have real trade with them for their oil, and this plays into what President Trump set up in his first term, the Abraham Accords.
This is what even historians say, this would be fantastic if we could have Israel as a part of all of these different Arab nations and have Saudi Arabia and the Iranians, Sunnis and Shia, who historically hate each other. That's why I'm always laughing if someone says, well, ISIS was fighting because of Iran. No, ISIS is the other side of Iran. So no, that's wrong. And there seems to be motivation for that. And Saudi Arabia, you've been doing all, this is what President
Trump did this term. You've been getting all, you know, you've been doing oil business. We're going to turn you into a data center, high tech. center of the Middle East, and you'll participate in the global AI race, et cetera, et cetera, for whatever that means. But that's not the way it's playing out in American politics. In American politics, all you hear is, President Trump got dragged into this by Israel because he needs to blow up Iran to protect Israel. Nonsense.
It doesn't even make economic sense. So the cope of grasping at Well, it's because he's being blackmailed by Epstein. No. I mean, it's pathetic. It's pathetic on his face where this is a game about oil and resources and money and who controls and who does not control and what's fair. And isn't it always? Historically. It's always about... We're done. That's right. Good night, everybody. No, it's always about oil, turf and, you know... There's always some personal stuff in there,
but that just is from leader to leader. So I've been trying to figure out where this notion comes from, that we have gotten into a position where you have, there's really two camps, and I learned recently, mainly through listening to you very carefully, that there's three. One is Israel is, is not important because according to the New Testament and Jesus, the church is the New
Israel. Then you have the other side who says we're really in the church age right now of the seven different ages, dispensationalism, and then there's a third that we'll get to. But what this results in is a confusion for believers, Christians. What am I supposed to do here? Am I supposed to defend support Israel? Is Israel the state, the region, the government, etc.? Or do I denounce them for so -called genocide?
What is genocide? Or should I just shut up and be really quiet, which I think is what most people do? And this is a big problem because you're missing a great opportunity to help people understand, in my opinion, and I believe your opinion, what God really intended and what He really said. Now, this has come to a head with podcasters who believe they are great theologians. I didn't know Tucker Carlson was a Christian until recently, and the same goes for many other people who have
at least expressed their faith openly. But I knew this was a real problem in our community when I hear our friend Matt Long on the Matt Long show just this week, and it's a very short clip, just to give you an idea of the confusion of where we are as believers in this geopolitical argument. about Israel. And so, well, that puts us in a bizarre situation because is the state of Israel, is the government of Israel, is that who God made His promise to? Did He make it to
Jerusalem? Did He make it to the Jewish people who descended by blood only to the Jewish people? These are all questions that a lot of us have, and many of us grew up with preconceived notions on that. Okay. So when Matt... I heard this, by the way. You played this on Hello Fred. As a promo. Yeah, you're right. I heard it. I heard the promo too. I'm like, wow, I got to grab that out of the promo. That's a good bit. So I'm going to try and boil it down and then we'll get to
the third option. But amongst a lot of people who are saying, literally saying, the Christians in America are Zionists. They're the problem. They let Israel get away with everything. The politicians are pro -Israel and they'll do anything to defend Israel. They come from the school of replacement theology. and we played some Nick Fuentes a while back, I think that's probably where we talked about it, where he said, oh no, the church has replaced Israel, and that is replacement
theory. Now, I'm gonna play a couple clips, and then we'll get into where this comes from. So Tucker had on former Miss California, Carrie Prejean Baller. And you may remember her from like 20 years ago, She was a shoe in to win and then go on to win Miss USA. But she said very clearly, no, I believe marriage is between one man and one woman. That's my faith. And so she got burned, you know, excoriated, of course. And that's when she became friends with President
Trump. And he kept in touch with her throughout all these years because she definitely went through some ups and downs in whatever career because she was seen as a nut job. as one does, and she winds up being asked to be on the Defending Christian Faith Presidential Board. And this includes a number of people, including Dan Patrick, who was, is he our attorney general? Attorney general in Texas? No, no, no. He's our lieutenant governor. Lieutenant, right. Who was our attorney general?
Paxton. Paxton. Okay, yeah, so he's... It's easy to get those names mixed up. Yes, and they're going to get even more mixed up, I think, once elections are over. And Paula White, who runs the Office of Faith for the President, I believe is his pastor, I'm not sure. But also, Dr. Phil is on there. But it's a prestigious thing. And she was asked to resign from the board, who? the Carrie, the former Miss California, runner -up Miss California, because she was posting
things about what Israel was doing in Gaza. And it was clear that it was more about politics than about faith. But as she sat down with Tucker Carlson, this is where it really got interesting for me, because you can hear exactly how the programming has been shoved in and how it works, this very binary choice, which is not ultimately binary, about the support of Israel. So she says,
no, I'm not going to resign. Then she gets a call from Paula White and Dan Patrick, and they're saying, no, you really have to, or you have to run all your tweets through us or, you know, sound like a very untenable situation. Here's her I have a couple clips of this. Here's her takeaway as to how this happened in her conversation with Tucker Carlson. Did either one of them explain why a requirement of the Christian faith is supporting the Netanyahu government? Did they explain the
theology there? You already see where this is going, right? Because I don't understand it. Yeah, no, they never explained it. They just said, you can't have your theology. You can't believe what you want. You have to submit to ours. But their theology is that Christians are required as a matter of faith to support the government of Israel. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Do you have any idea? Those who bless Israel will be blessed. That's exactly what Ted told you.
Yeah, I mean, he had no idea where in the Bible it was. Of course, that line is not actually in the Bible. It doesn't say that. But whatever, the leap between that, whatever that means, it does mean something. and the moral, the religious requirement to support the government of Israel. I mean, those are just like completely two different things. No, they don't think they are. A lot of interesting things just to start this off.
I completely take at face value the belief that she and Tucker think and have gotten the impression, and it may be very true, that politicians who believe in dispensationalism or whatever their belief is that the 1948 creation of the state of Israel was a prophetic fulfillment and we have to defend that at all cost to have the end times accelerate or whatever eschatological phase we're in. I need you to comment on just where
we are so far. Dispensationalism would hold that there's a place for Israel, there is prophetic implications for both current Israel then, when it was said back in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant, but also for today. So it's both now and for then, now and future. There's also another view which is completely the opposite of that, which would be replacement theology. And by the way, no one person came up with replacement. You can't go back to this person started that.
Well, the argument, and I've looked into this, is that for 1 ,500, 1 ,800, 2 ,000 years since Constantine... Right. I did hear that in Justin
Martyr and others. That that's when Constantine, who of course made Christianity the official religion, he could not have people believing that Israel was still a thing in order to keep power, and I believe that's probably been carried over through the Church of England, like, no, no, no, no, no, we are the new Israel, and that was for political reasons, that you just couldn't believe that. Does that sound feasible? So back to replacement theology, yeah, it does sound...
It says that Israel is over and done, that the Church is now the New Israel. It has replaced Israel. So all the prophetic implications were either fulfilled in the Old Covenant or in the first century of the New Testament, the New Age, so to speak, that now everything pertains to the church. Everything's about the church. Problem is we're doing this again. We're siloing these things and saying it's either or again. You use the word binary. Hold on. There's another way.
I know that's what I want to get at the end. I'll let you have the punchline. No, you're going to have the punchline, but I want to take us through because you mentioned replacement and fulfillment. That's exactly what comes up in this next clip. Did Paula White or Dan Patrick explain where you were wrong on doctrine? No. No, they just said, I cannot hold firm to replacement theology, which they don't know Catholics. It's fulfillment theology. We believe that we are
the fulfillment. You know, it's not replaced. They like to dig us and say, oh, you believe in replacement theology. No, no, no. We're the fulfillment. Christ is the fulfillment of Israel. Well, that's what it says in the New Testament. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it says it like on every page. Okay, the theologian Tucker Carlson. Bless Tucker's heart. So now there's kind of a little nuance here, so replacement versus theology, please. Well, she says we're not replacement
theology, we're fulfillment theology. I've never even heard that term. It's not an official term, but really what she's blending over into is what I would call a hybrid theology, which brings in covenant theology. And I would definitely lean more towards covenant theology. We're gonna
get to covenant. Okay, we're gonna get to covenant But she's pulling that in well as a piece, but she's not the nuance, but she's not here I haven't heard the whole no no no, it's it's mind -blowing my brother pastor Jimmy It is mind -blowing because this programming when I hear Tucker Carlson say it's all over the Bible I'm like no page. It's not it's like No, it's quite the opposite, and that we'll get to, but now we get the explanation
from her. And this is just a mom. She was a beauty queen, but she's a mom, and she's just trying to do the right thing. And I have to be honest, she sounds very bitter. She's got a bitter tone, and maybe for good reasons, but she feels like she's got... She's been screwed around her whole life. She's very hurt. But this is the conversation. This is what is driving the entire narrative.
And once we can get down to the basics of what it is and what it isn't, then at least we can feel good about defending whatever we want to defend. So, but they're accusing you of believing in something called replacement theology. For people who don't follow this, and I'm kind of one of them, I don't fully understand what that means, what do they mean by that? They believe that, so replacement theology, their claim is
that the church has replaced Israel. So, for 2 ,000 years, that's what all of the early church fathers have taught, that we are the new Israel, we're the spiritual Semites. They would literally be rolling in their graves if they thought that we were being told that 1948 Israel is some biblical prophecy fulfillment. I mean, that alone is insane. That they think that this political state of Israel that was created in 48, mostly by atheists,
is some biblical prophecy being fulfilled. And I mean, you're aware of Darby and Schofield, and this is the fruit of that. And I have a feeling that there are politicians who absolutely believe that the 1948 Israel is fulfillment of prophecy. And it may well be, but I'm like, whatever, God's timing, God's deal, I don't know if we're supposed to defend the government. I mean, there have been a lot of bad governments in Israel, a lot of bad kings, a lot of bad stuff has gone on
there. But this is the schism. And I don't think all politicians believe this, but whether they're using it as a reason to go along to get along with the military industrial complex, and they're hiding behind it, whether they fully believe it, I'm not exactly sure. But this is what leads
to this this label of Zionism. So when you hear Ted Cruz defending Genesis saying, well, trying to defend, you know, if you bless Israel, you will be blessed in sending money or supporting militarily the Israeli army government, etc. This is where the term Christian Zionism comes from, which this good Catholic girl has never heard of. Is there any other place in America, I mean, in the world, rather, where you have a big group of Christians who believe that 1948
Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy? No. In fact, do you know, Tucker, that I asked my priest, who I had several, I had about six priests guiding me before this hearing, spiritually advising me before this hearing, because I wanted to make sure. I need to make sure that I know what I'm saying and that it's actually accurate with what the church teaches. The church. And I'll never forget, he's from Spain. God bless him. He's so, so sweet. And I said, Father, do you know
what Zionism is? He looked at me like I was an alien. He's like, what's Zionism? I couldn't believe it. I said, you realize in America that these people like Paula White, Dan Patrick, Ted Cruz, most of our politicians in government who have power, who are in the White House praying over the president, They're Zionists. They believe that 1948 Israel is a biblical prophecy fulfillment. He looked at me like I was crazy. He said, nobody's
ever taught that. So this made me think, do Catholics in America, are they completely into fulfillment and replacement? That's a good question. I can't answer for Catholicism and their theology on that. I know that when we were in Israel in 2005, we were very connected to and involved with the largest messianic church there. These were actual Jewish people who had embraced Jesus Christ as the Messiah, and there was a thriving church up in the Haifa Bay area. Still there, going
strong, one of the largest congregations. They believe that 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy, that there would be a day where they would be back in their land, and the land that they believe God, by Scripture, promised them. And so, when she says something so definitive as, no one else believes this anywhere in the world, I'm going, you're wrong. This is the enemy speaking through her, obviously. I'm trying to have some compassion too. I'm not trying to nail
her. I'm just saying when you say those nowhere, nothing, no one, these definitive terms, you're using a very wide paintbrush and you're brushing these wide strokes. And I'm hearing that in the rhetoric a lot. where not many people are actually leaving room for the nuance to say, well, I may not believe everything exactly the way you said it, but yet I do see support for the truth or the idea in the book of Romans that we as the Gentiles have been grafted into the vine, which
makes us partners and brothers and sisters. And then I look in Ephesians 2 and I find, wait, the dividing wall has been broken down between Jew and Gentile. They are now one new man. So you can make a good case either way, but I think you can make a gooder, a better case for the C word. you wouldn't let me say earlier. This is where it's open for you. It's the idea of covenant theology, where God made covenants with Israel. She used a word that I would use, that
we're in this long narrative. You look at the narrative of the scripture, and a lot of prophecies are now fulfilled now and fulfilled then. So they're layered in nature. They don't always have just one thing. They're typically stacked. And so you'll see something happen then that pertained to that prophetic word being spoken, especially you hear Isaiah and all of them, Isaiah, Ezekiel, but there's also future implications. You get the book of Revelation and go, wow. He's
mirroring back to Ezekiel. He's mirroring back to Isaiah. So it's both and, not either or. And I think that's where I'm struggling to use the word binary, where it makes this hard definition between either or and no room for both and. Well, that's what I had to discover. I thought it was binary. I thought it was replacement theology, dispensationalism. And the more I listen to you and and the more we just had conversations, the more I realized, oh, wait a minute, you heard
the key word here is Schofield study. They say Schofield Bible, but we talked about the Schofield study Bible. And so the conspiracy theory, and this is my territory, you want to launch a conspiracy theory, I'm going to look into it. So the theory is that the whole Christian, everybody in Christianity believes in the fulfillment and replacement theology until this guy came along, and here it comes, and he edited the Schofield Study Bible, which technically, linguistically, yes, he edited a
study Bible. People take that as he edited the Bible, and I'm not kidding, this is the genesis of the problem, and created this hoax, this non -truth, so that people would now be politically motivated to defend the 1948 state of Israel at any cost. And this is the reason we're in the war and we'll pick up covenant theory right after this short clip. Yeah, it's really scary. Well, it's yeah. And especially since we just,
you know, wound up in a war thanks to this. I mean, it's hard not to see this as all preparation for for this war, which is resetting the world. And they had to get rid of the the only dissenter of that. of Zionism. They had to get rid of her on this commission before the war. It was within weeks. This is the enemy's best, best move ever. He has made people believe that because of this non -binary choice, because when I look at Schofield, I had to go and look at the study Bible, Pastor
Jimmy, this became difficult for me. He actually talks about covenant theory in there as well and rejects it. out of whole cloth. No, no, no. It can only be dispensationalism and it's these periods. So I'm like, oh, hold on a second. So he doesn't even think. So they may have actually, that Bible, that study Bible may have been set up for some reason, possibly, but nobody's talking about covenant theology, which to me, It's right there in black and white what God has, through
man, has written in there. This is not something from the late 1800s. It's not from a study Bible. This is from the original text. It's not somebody's opinion about that. No. And for people now to use this as the excuse, oh, this is why we're going to war. Excuse my French, bullcrap. It's about oil, and this is a sideshow which is hurting, I think it's hurting believers who want to just, like, and we learned this from our buddy Joe who wrote in and said, what do you mean you support
Israel? Yeah, yeah, that was good. I'm glad he did. It made us think it through. Yes, and I think this was God bringing us to this point, like, can we just discuss what is really going on here and from your theological standpoint, which I believe is the same as mine. I'm not a theologian, but I'm a Jesus freak, and I can read. Like, we pray for the peace of Jerusalem. I pray for peace in the Middle East. If the 1948 Israeli state is part of fulfillment of Scripture,
hallelujah! That doesn't change my opinion of war, or killing people one way or the other, or a government. Do I even like my government here in America? That has nothing to do with it. Is that a correct way of saying it? Well, eschatology, your viewpoint, and there's dozens of them out there, but we talked about the top three in terms of Israel. It does frame what you say. It frames your worldview, but it doesn't
have to change your worldview. And here's the thing is, We've got to be able to think and talk about these things and have good conversations about them as opposed to coming in, well, no one does this outside of America or outside of the White House is what she made it sound. They're the only ones. I mean, just the broad stroke language is completely what's been so frustrating over the last few decades in America where if you don't agree with me on every point, then
you hate me. It's more of that type of rhetoric. But now it's been drug into theology, it's been drug into Christianity, it's been into the faith realm. So now faith becomes a weapon again, not the first time. And I believe it's a weapon, political weapon, to break apart the conservative right, which is probably work of Satan itself. Like, he has fingerprints all over this for 150 years. You know, at the end of the day, we need
to be honest about things. Does my theology, and the word theology, all it means is logic -ing about theos, theos, God, Greek word, Koine Greek. Theology is the study of, or the logic -ing of, the thinking about God. The Scripture tells us we've been given the mind of Christ. Now, it doesn't mean we're using it, but we've been given it. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't mean I'm always tapping into it. There are days
I'm not. There are weeks I'm not. But at the end of the day, if we will pause and say, Lord, Your Word says that I've been given the mind of Christ, and it also says I've not been given a spirit of fear, but of power and love and of a sound mind, the ability to think well. Lord, I want to apply these things. I want to apply this truth to me as I think about, as I pray about, as I read, as I study, as I ask questions. And yet what we see are these, this bold bulldozer
type, it's not a conversation. These are just a series of monologues that are out there, especially on podcasts. Here we are. Instead of people being humble and saying, you know what? Prove me wrong. Help me understand. Maybe I'm not getting it. Maybe I don't know the scripture. I'd love to hear Tucker say, you know, I really don't know the Bible. I'm new to this. I'm learning. But for him to say blatantly out loud with passion,
it's on every page. I mean, it's just shocking to me the lack of humility that we should be approaching these things in. I see covenant theology as, I don't even know if it's a blend or a hybrid, but it's the middle ground of saying there's this beautiful narrative of God coming to earth in the form of his son Jesus to redeem the mistakes, to redeem the sin, to redeem the mishaps and missteps of mankind. Now how that impacts Israel, how that impacts anybody, at the end of the day,
it impacts every human being on the planet. So can we set some of this stuff aside and talk about the real issues here? And it is this, is Jesus Christ who he says he was? Is he the Messiah? Is he the one they waited so long for? Well, according to Simeon, the prophet who held up baby Jesus like Mufasa, holding him up, I can
just hear the song, right? Waited his entire lifetime to see the fulfillment of the Messiah coming and he came and Can we focus on what needs to be focused on but what these what I'm seeing in podcast land and I heard a heard a pastor say this recently on his platform is is They're not building anyone up They're in the business of tearing people down for likes and clicks and sponsors and it's like what happened to being a life -giving force on the air or in podcast
world on the internet of saying, let's build something up. Let's build something good. And that doesn't mean disparaging everybody who doesn't agree with you. So that's where my struggle is when we get into these arguments over which kind of theology you're living in. But I hear what you're saying because whatever that is, it frames how you see the world. It frames how you interpret a war where Israel and America seem to have partnered
up. A guy who did 11 tours in the Middle East whose wife was killed by an IED in Syria, she was also a military, he just quit his job because he is convinced that Israel dragged us into a war that we were supposed to fight for them. This breaks my heart. That's the level that it's come to. And so when Matt Long has a question like that, how can we as believers address this
without showing a binary choice? And also I would say to someone like Tucker, like if you know the Bible so well, perhaps you need to look at the you know, what's in your own eye when you're trying to get the speck out of someone else's, you know, it's like we can talk all day in proverbs and different scripture about who's right or who's wrong. The compassion has been thrown out the window and it is the enemy who just wants the world to hate Jews and Israel because that
is the result. So that has to be the mission and that by itself tells me that prophecy is underway and it's trying to be stopped by the ongoing war in the heavenly realm. It actually substantiates the prophetic narrative. Can I just share something about covenant theology? Covenant theology sees the whole Bible as one unfolding story of God's promises to His people. So there's continuity in this, often highlighting continuity, like the church being grafted into
the family of faith. That's something that a lot of people forget, is that we are not the vine. We were grafted into it. And that puts us not first, it puts us with. See the difference? Replacement theology, though a controversial label, suggests the church fully replaces Israel in God's plan, meaning the promises to Israel are now only fulfilled in the church. Covenant theology, however, usually sees a role for both. more of a grafting in rather than a replacement.
This is why if I had to identify and say, I'm this, which I'd wrestle with that because I'm all about definitions and nuances and it's almost dangerous to say, I'm this. It's like buying a prefabbed home. You didn't choose anything. You just stepped into what somebody else built. That's why I struggle with a lot of these labels. But what I would say I'm more closely aligned
with is covenant theology. and it's because of Romans, the book of Romans, about being grafted into the vine, and that we're to be thankful for that and thankful to the Jewish people for that. There's a lot of things going on here. I want to share a couple of things. Listen to what—and this is out of 1 Peter chapter 2, and it talks about this. It says this, but you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood. a holy nation,
God's special possession. Now, you just read that without any context, a lot of people are going to say, oh, well, that's Israel because that's from the book of Ezekiel. And then you have to come back and say, actually, this was written to the church. This was written to who were both Jews and Gentiles. That's why in This is why in Ephesians chapter 2, listen to this, 14, for he himself is our peace. Christ is our peace who has made us both one. And he's talking
about Jews and Gentiles. He has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility. So to me, when I read that, I don't see either or. That's the binary thing. I see it as both and. That's the continuity of covenant theology where, yes, God still has a plan for His people. And will I continue to pray for them? Absolutely. According to God's Word, I'll stand on that and pray for them and ask God to save them because it says until the time
of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Well, it hasn't been fulfilled yet because evangelism is still happening. The Great Commission is still happening. So in the meantime, I pray for the redemption and the salvation of Israel and Jerusalem, of course, that they would come to know Jesus Christ as Savior. I don't mean that to be offensive to any Jewish person. It's from a heart of love. It's from a heart of compassion. It's from a heart of somebody who was not always a Christian.
A guy who, like you, later in life came to Christ and was like, oh my goodness, this is amazing. Then, as a new Christian, you're looking out going, what are you guys fighting all about? Why are you guys fighting all the time? We've got business to do. We've got work to do. We have a good message to share with everybody else, but we're going to sit. You made a comment, this side issue, this side thing or sidebar, whatever you said, something earlier. That's really what
happens. These sidebar things become the main thing which distracts us from the real main thing. And that is sharing the love of God, sharing the mercy of God, the grace of God, the heart of God to the world. And my Jewish friends, Israeli friends, I'm looking at you, Sir Brian. I love that guy, by the way. What I love about him is we can discuss, I can discuss Christ with him and he'll just say, oh yeah, you know, just so you know. we see him as an insurrectionist, he
wasn't the guy. And we can move on from there. Exactly. And we can move on. It's not a hate conversation. And it's not like I'm not praying for him, he's praying for me. We are. And that's what's beautiful. It's just so unfortunate that our culture, particularly in America, but also in Europe and other continents, is obsessed with this. And unfortunately, I've seen the results of how some of this ends up, and it's not pretty. And then everyone is like, oh, that really sucked.
We shouldn't have done that. We should have killed all these Jews. Let's reboot, and we won't do that again. And it gets so bad where you get restrictions on freedom of speech, which are kind of creeping in very slowly, which I'm a little nervous about. I mean, to say to a university, you can't have this kind of speech going on, or we won't fund you. It's like, that's borderline. It's almost the problem in the opposite direction, almost like overcorrection. It's like overcorrecting
wokeness. Like, no, no, no, we can't have that either. So there's all these issues when ultimately, and this won't happen in the next four years, but I think we will see that President Trump did a very courageous thing. If he pulls it off and he believes he will, we could see an incredible flourishing of peace in the Middle East. And prosperity. Prosperity for all, including the Iranian people. Exactly. And the Syrians, and Jordanians, and Iraqis, and it really could get
to a great place. He did an amazing thing. I just have to mention this. Did you see the State of the Union? You probably saw the clip where he said, if you think Americans should be supported by their government over illegal alien stand -up, Yes, and you know half of the Democrats or more didn't get up Yeah, he in essence did
the same thing. He said anybody who thinks that we should be Taking down this regime and opening up the Straits of Hormuz and keeping that safe send your ships over he said that on on Sunday a Monday he said well There you go. You guys are no good. We'll remember. What that was was we're taking away that premium of $15 on a barrel of oil. We're going to take that. We're going to secure it. We're going to ensure shipping. Now, he's not there yet. I'm just going to pray
for him that he gets there. He's systematically deconstructing something that's been there. He's pulling apart a very old worldwide financial globalist system. And instead of seeing that and praying for him and for our military men and for everyone in the conflict, we're obsessed with this one issue that is all... ultimately meant to influence the midterm elections. Can I settle something? Please do. Can I just kind of go to the end of the story and pull a Paul
Harvey moment here? Yes, sir. Roman's 11, 25, and 26. This is where, in these arguments, whether it's Tucker and this lady or Tucker and whoever. Everybody. It seems like Tucker and everybody right now is always talking about this. No one has ever pulled this passage up. Romans 11, 25 says this. This is the Apostle Paul in his completely amazing epic work, theological work, Weight and Gravity, the book of Romans. It's the greatest
theology. It is big. He says, I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited or arrogant. Israel has experienced a hardening, in part, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. Boom. So right there, God In his plan, which is bigger than we can even wrap our minds around, he puts a cap on Israel, not to punish them, but to create an opportunity for us to come into the same blessing. This is huge.
This goes back to the grafting and the vine, but listen how he ends it. Verse 26, and in this way, all Israel will be saved. As it is written, the deliverer will come from Zion, that was Christ, he came out of Israel, he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. He's saying that because the Israelites in a sense were forced to participate in the fullness of the Gentiles, the Gentiles coming in, he's saying because of that great sacrifice, then they will be saved, they will
be redeemed. This is what Paul was trying to help understand and that it was a mystery because people didn't understand is why would why would God turn the Israelites the Jewish people's face away from Christ and It was in order that the Gentiles would be able to come in and when that time is up whatever then whenever that is all the fullness of time Then he says all of Israel will be saved. This is where I go back to when people are just losing their minds over this
stuff. And I go, can we just read the end of the book? Let's read the end of this treatise of the Apostle Paul who declares both is going to happen. The Gentiles are going to come in. The fullness, that's us. You and I are reaping that right now. But also the Jewish people, Israel will be saved. It's all Igbok. It's going to be okay. My favorite coffee mug. It's going to be okay. God has a plan. He's working the plan.
We can split hairs on it all day long and get mad and get upset and create 500 more podcasts. You know what I mean? Yeah. And get sponsors and clicks and lights and all that. But at the end of the day, we're taking something that's already been settled in Scripture and just pontificating about it. Amen. And slaughtering one another verbally. relationally. Families are divided over this kind of stuff. That is not the intent of Scripture, to divide. Although it does say,
Father, we turn against His Son. I mean, it does divide just by its very nature. He came to divide. By its very nature. And yet He's the Prince of Peace. You know, for me, it's heavy. It's like, I don't portend. Is that the right word? I don't know what God's plan is. Jesus said he'd know when it was all going to happen. Even the Son of God does not know when it's going to happen. So why would I even be bothered worrying about
it? I've got a job to do. That's one job. And that is, you know, go out and make more disciples. I think that's the only job. It's not my job to argue about other stuff. And here's what we know, and I'm sorry to interrupt. This is very important. He is coming again. He's coming back. And that was the primary driver of the first century when they said of the disciples, these men are turning the world upside down. That was the driver. Jesus promised he would come back
and they lived into that promise. And because he's tarried, because he didn't, that doesn't diminish what it accomplished. And it should be accomplishing the same thing in you and me. we're 2 ,000 years closer to him coming back. And tomorrow will be another day, 24 hours closer, which means the further this goes down, the higher the probability of that this could be the day, this could be the year, and that should drive us. What it should do is create guardrails on
our lives to say, I want to be ready. That's what the whole point of eschatology is. It's not to have charts and graphs and numbers and all this stuff. But that makes for a great podcast. Well, it sells books too. It sells books. It makes movies. It does all kinds of stuff. There's a whole industry built around this, but at the end of the day, it is meant to be a driver for us to give us guard rails so that we are ready when he returns, whenever that is. I'm going
to end it on that, brother. I really appreciate your insight on this. Of course. And I hope someone Someone out there got something from this and you can just calm down Calm down. It's gonna be okay. Yes And with that we will land this plane will be back next week with another episode of we get to do this