Debbie Rogers 0:19
Northern Power Women podcast for your career and your life, no matter what business you're in.
Simone Roche 0:26
Hello, hello, and welcome to the Northern Power Women podcast. I'm your host, Simone Roche and this is the We Are More season. And what is the We Are More season? The We Are More season is all about chatting to our winners, our commended and our partners of the Northern Power Women awards that we held earlier this year. And for me, it's been absolutely amazing to catch up with these fantastic individuals ,to hear about their stories, to hear about what they've been doing since the awards and what they are continuing to drive change and accelerating equality and fairness from the North. So it's a massive deal for me, I'm loving this series.
And we've had another record breaking awards nomination period with over 1500 nominations. And we've also got this growing Pay It Forward community where we've got individuals and organisations out there that are supporting more people to attend next year as well, which is great, because the more that we can celebrate and share and showcase is fantastic. And we're also on the lookout for mentors, we've been growing our Power Collective Power Up sessions, which are our one hour virtual micro mentoring, where gives you one hour of your time, over lunchtime, from the comfort of your own desk to just have a chat with people at the start of their career. So hence, there's the reason why we are more and someone who is more is the winner of our One To Watch award this year, the amazing Debbie Rogers and it's been so fantastic we've just been chatting before and I've loved watching all the success that is or recognition shall I say that is coming your way. Multi award winning. Debbie is the Founder of Sean's Place which was set up after the death of her brother. We're going to get right into the conversation. Because this will tell the story of who and why Debbie is. So welcome to the podcast, Debbie.
Debbie Rogers 2:18
Hi Thank you so much for having us and listen to past shows so it's, it's lovely to be asked to be on.
Simone Roche 2:24
We talk a lot about purpose and how important it is when you're starting an organisation. But tell me about where your story is. And Sean stories.
Debbie Rogers 2:34
Sean was my brother and he sadly took his life three years ago, but he wasn't always so unwell that there was no option for him. He started with anxiety and depression and things that a lot of us live with but have healthy happy lives. But for Sean and for many men out there, there was a huge gap in his support. So, we had a lot of medication, a lot of therapy. But really it was that connectiveness that sort of positivity to this day that reason for living, you know that the connections with people, a lot of people assume that men won't come to places like that, or that men don't need spaces like that. But I always knew for Sean that's exactly what he needed. And when Sean died, it was very evident that had that been a part of his life, he may never have got as normality did. So about six weeks after Shawn passed away, I was getting messages from loads of other people saying my uncle was exactly the same or this was happening to my brother and if he'd had somewhere to go that this would never have happened. So, I knew that we weren't alone in this and that there was still this huge gap. And I didn't want anybody else to feel they had no option but to end life. I began to build Seans Place. And here we are today, three years later.
Simone Roche 3:48
So tell me about Sean. What was he like?
Debbie Rogers 3:51
Sean was just incredible. We used to call them like our fourth child because he was just so full of energy. He was cheeky. I've got three kids and they were always like his brothers and sisters. He loved him that much. And they'd be hanging off the ceiling every time we come down, towards the end of his life, you know, sadly become very unwell, but it's nice to be able to remember how short was before then. Sean walked down the aisle on my wedding day. He was there at my graduation just a week before he died. He was such an important person in my life. And I just wish he knew that or I hope that he did know that.
But um, yeah,
Simone Roche 4:24
I know this would never have been something that you would have ever wanted to do is to set up Sean's Place because obviously it came at the loss of your brother.
How much do you draw on that? That Shawn that adopted child always says you say how much you do draw on that. And on that purpose when things must get tough?
Debbie Rogers 4:45
Yeah, I think it's really important to remember why Sean's place existed. It's really difficult to run an organisation like Sean's Place, you can get caught up in the bureaucracy of it and the day-to-day aspects of it, but there's a person behind all of this and there's family that are behind every man that walks through the door, and we have to really remember that there's so many people impacted. Like when Sean died, it was just so difficult like that it was grief like no other. There are so many unanswered questions, it was a lot of frustration and anger there towards almost a persistence. And I felt I let him down. And I have to put myself back in that position sometimes. And remember where that pain came from, to keep driving Sean's Place forward, to make sure that men don't have to worry about getting support anymore. It's there. It's free. And it's a media, and we can save lives that way.
Simone Roche 5:32
And how many men do you support across Merseyside?
Debbie Rogers 5:35
At the moment, it's around 150 a week that come through our doors. And we also support the families as well. So for every man who comes through the door, we've got about four members of the family who also come to our family support group, when we first started, we had two or three or four a week come in, but I think people are starting to trust now that these places do work, and that it's okay to come to places like this, and they can help. And it's massively prevented people being put on endless waiting lists or turning to medication, because the support is there when they actually need.
Simone Roche 6:07
And you talked about grief a lot, and the struggle to deal with grief. And many people keep that grief private, many people will not want to talk about it, because they feel like it's something they have to keep them to ourselves and an equally in company people don't always know how to deal with that and be part of that conversation about grief. How did how did that grief affect you? Because you talked about the fact that people were coming to you only six weeks after Shawn's tragic death. And all of a sudden you're trying to how did you deal with that grief and start thinking about I can do something good here?
Debbie Rogers 6:47
It was really, it was the most traumatic time of my life. I think everyone copes with grief completely differently. No one person will cope the same when they lose a loved one in it, you know, through any sorts of means. It was a terrifying time. I've got three beautiful children a lovely husband, I've got a lovely life. And for the first time in my life, I wasn't afraid to die anymore, because I just wanted to be with my brother. And it was a terrifying thought. But when I opened Sean's place, and we looked at the statistics around this, there's a huge risk of people who go on to take their own lives following the death of a loved one to suicide. And it's not spoken about enough. Those people are really vulnerable in that moment. There's a lot of pain, a lot of anger, a lot of unanswered questions, and there needs to be more support around that. I wish that I would have had the support at that time that I really needed. But instead, I had to sort of, you know, self-medicate, I suppose, which Sean's place became that medication for me, it was my source of distraction, my purpose. It got me through at time that I didn't think I'd be able to get through again. My family fell apart quite massively. Everyone was blaming themselves, wish that they dispatched at the signs. But also, on top of that, there was an investigation in the hospital that I was driving forward, we had an inquest, so I had to drive, there was an article to inquest, which is really, really torturous for anyone who's ever experienced it. Looking back now I do not know how I got through it. But I think Sean place was definitely you know, my saving grace. And there's a lot of people that I know now who have used their grief and their pain to create something amazing, like Sean's place as well. But for some people, that's not their way of dealing with this, some people just need to find their own coping mechanisms. So we were in a brilliant group and that was Sean's place to help those people to cope through the grief. And just know that things will get easier. And you can learn to live with grief.
Simone Roche 8:42
Tell me what advice would you give to anyone who's listening to this or know someone who is who's potentially struggling with their mental health? This is the week that we we recognise that it's International Men's Day. And that is very much focused and was created because of mental health problems in young men. But what would you say to anyone out there who thinks, oh, I can't, I don't want to lean in and ask for help, you know, I need to tough it out and do it over here. That's not who I am. What would you say? What would you say to those those individuals or those individual's families who think that one of their loved ones might be at risk?
Debbie Rogers 9:20
The one thing that I always say is I just wish that I'd had this, I wish I knew then what I know now, I feel like I know so much that would have saved my brother had I have had that education so earlier on in in my life, I would say definitely look at a suicide prevention course. There's so many of them around. Even if you don't think that your loved one is considering suicide. It's just something to have in your toolkit. When you feel like you're banging your head against the wall. You don't know what to say. You don't want to make things worse, you don't know where to turn to. It might be that you are turning to places and you're not getting the answers that you need. You can at least arm yourself so you can do something about it to keep your loved one safe.
There's also free apps like the Hub of Hope App, which is actually run by a local guy called Jake Mills. And if you type in your postcode or the person's postcode that you're supporting, the mental health services within that community will be listed. So you don't even have to do the hard work. But the app does that for you. And that's a free app called the Hub of Hope. And they're just two things that you will have in your toolkit. But also, if you are aware that you're loved one is struggling, they are wanting to access support and you feel like you're banging your head against the door and no one's listening. Don't take no for an answer. Just shout as loud as you can, because you know, your loved one that you'll know them more than the professional so and you'll know when something isn't right. So make sure that you just carry on banging against that or because someone will open that door eventually. And you'll find the help that they need.
Simone Roche 10:42
Thank you. And we'll put these links in the show notes as well. So there is information like you say there is information out there, you're not on your own. And can you tell us a couple of stories? The positive stories out of tragedy?
Debbie Rogers 10:58
Yeah, massively. We've got the two that I share with you. I think when people think about people who are struggling, they think that they must be on their own, they mustn't have no one to love around them. And you know, that's why they're in the headspace app they are. But sometimes that's not the case. We had one gentleman who came through our door, he sent us a really lengthy email at first. Because he just felt fraudulent. He was like, I don't know why I feel like this. I've got everything. I've got a wife, I've got kids, and I really high up on my career. And I've got money, of course, the car, he had the dream life, I suppose. But he was still considering suicide. And he was taking his families on holidays and days out. His families were living the dream, they were having, you know, an amazing time spending quality family time together. But he was actually making plans so that he could leave his family with memories for when he ends his life. And his family had no idea. And it got to a point where one night he was specifically scared by that he knew what he was doing. He thought this isn't really what I want to do, but I don't know any other way out. And he came to us, he went through some counselling, he had a lot of support from us. He then went on to become a mentor in Sean's place and help others. And now he doesn't need us at all. And his family are having that the time that they should be having quality time together for the right reasons, he's still really successful in his job. And he's gone on to live his life again. But thank God that he decided to reach out for support that night, because obviously, the alternative is unthinkable. So that was obviously something we were really proud of, we were really proud of him and his family as well.
And then we've got another young man who come to us he was our baby for a long time, he was the youngest one that come through our door, he sort of got into the wrong crowd where he was living and thought that was the life that was sort of paid out for him. He didn't really have many family and friends. And he found a group that he thought he belonged to making really bad choices. And but he knew that wasn't the life that he wanted. So thankfully, he too, he found Sean's Place well somebody else found Sean's Place for him. And they brought him to us. And for the first couple of months, he was so angry with the world, he was blaming everybody else for the way that he was, there was no sort of a hope there for him that we just thought he was going to be the source of, you know, typical sort of scalli lads who was going to end up in the wrong crowd and go down the wrong path. But he then went on to become a mentor two years later with us, he's just enrolled in university. And he's gone from living in supported accommodation to having his own place. And he's grown into a beautiful young man now and someone he can be proud of. And you know, he can really see a positive future for himself. And I suppose not everybody will have them extreme stories, some people would just need a little bit of a helping hand. But it does show that by reaching out for support, your life isn't paid out for given the direction that you may think it is that there is still always an opportunity for hope.
Simone Roche 13:48
Absolutely. And please do reach out, please do ask for help. Like I said, we'll have the information in the show notes that if you know somebody or you yourself are struggling in any way, then please do ask for help. Because there are people there that that want to support where you are in your in your life. Let's talk about funding. It's a really, really big challenge, isn't it? Especially in making what you've done come to life? How did you learn to do it?
Debbie Rogers 14:18
Yeah, I always say I feel I have done like three PhDs in the last three years, I've had to learn so much. I'd literally go into any job now and probably do it well, because you'll end up having to become everything doing something like this. And I think that, as I say in the early days, I was not going to take no for an answer. Sean's place was going to happen whether people wanted to support it or not. There was no alternative really. So I made sure that I've gotten myself in front of the right people or told them a vision and why I was doing it. And thankfully, there was a lot of amazing people who wanted to help. So at Sean's place we have about eight sponsors who are local businesses who sponsor us each month and they help to keep the lights on and keep the place warm. So that we can open the doors and welcome people. In terms of bitrate, and that I'd just done a degree and graduated a week before Sean died. And I did business degree but it was almost like I was just grateful he led me into university, I wasn't planning on doing anything with it, I just loved the whole experience. And I didn't realise that I was going to need those skills in the future, I thought I was just going to live my life as I usually would, but there was a lot of skills that I learned at university that probably helped in those early days. So I am grateful to John Moores University for putting up with me for four years. I suppose you just never know where life is gonna take you and the skills that you learned along the way, you never think you're going to use them, or you'll need them. But they're always there to pull out the bag. And thankfully, I did have a few of them in my toolkit that I was able to use to help Sean's Place get on that first step.
Simone Roche 15:48
Did you have any mentors or go to people around you that you were like, I literally have no idea how to do this. I've got the idea. I've got the will. I've got clearly the passion?
Debbie Rogers 16:00
Yeah, I did. You know, there was this. In the early days, it was a lot of community organisations. It was a dance school, for example, that let us use their space for free to start off Sean's place. There was a lot of amazing people who were willing to give their face some time. But there was a guy in particular called the Lee who runs a charity over on the widdle and he was me but eight years ago, and he was there to let me pick his brain to ask him questions, to learn about his mistakes, and to learn about the things that, if he could do it differently, he would have done. And that advice and guidance probably helped me to excel Sean's Place to where it is now. I don't know if without that we would have been able to grow because it was stuck sort of in those sorts of early days, I wanted to make sure that we could grow this into a full time sort of service.
Simone Roche 16:47
And what's next for you? And what do you need?
Debbie Rogers 16:51
If you'd asked me a year ago practice wouldn't have been the answer. It's making sure that people can have free and immediate access to support, it's reducing waiting times for people. And it's massively reducing anxiety and depression. So we don't want to keep this to ourselves like a hidden secret, we want to see assurance out nationally now. So we're having those conversations with some amazing people around the country, where we're looking at creating like the model assurance place across the country. So that men have this place where they can go and get support at the time when they need to. So we are definitely looking for that. But we're going to need people to invest in this, we need the healthcare professionals to trust us. We've got a really good relationship with Merseycare and they know the value of Sean's place. And we know that we can complement the work that they do. So if there is anybody who works in the healthcare service that would like this source of service in their community, come speak to us and let us see how we can serve to complement the what's already out there at the moment that is solely for men. And it means that we can reduce people's source of risk of feel like they've got no option but to end their life because the model is working. But we want to see this, you know, roll out now.
Simone Roche 18:01
It's that pay it forward, that collaborative approach to this will enable you to grow and reach more people, save more lives.
Debbie, honestly, it's been an absolute privilege to chat with you today. You are I think it's an overused word. But you are literally a true inspiration and anything that we can do to help support and promote them, we will do an anyone out there in the wider Northern Power Women community, which we know is super generous and super passionate about giving back, paying forward. Please do get in touch with Debbie. Just that one small act of kindness like the dance studio,opening those doors. You just don't know where this is going to happen. Sean, your brother would be so immensely proud of you, Debbie. It's been an honour to have you on the podcast today.
Debbie Rogers 18:50
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Simone Roche 18:52
And thank you, as I say you will put all information around Sean's Place. This is an amazing and amazing organisation run by a truly inspiring, thank you so much.
Please do stay up to date with everything that we're doing. Please do pay it forward. Please do get in touch one hour of your time. One email of your time can make such a massive difference to someone else. So thank you so much. Please do keep the conversation going on socials at North Power Women on Twitter and Northern Power Women on all our other socials. Join us next Monday when I'll be joined by another wonderful role model from the Northern Power Women community. I'm Simone Roche you've been listening to the Northern Power Women podcast. A What Goes On Media production.