Northern Power Women podcast for your career and your life, no matter what business you're in.
Simone Roche 0:26
Hello, and welcome to the Northern Power Women podcast. My name is Simone and you are most welcome to this the Be More You season and this season is all about showing that you don't need to change one single thing to reach whatever your definition of success is, we want you to be especially more you and encouraging everyone out there to be their authentic self while still reaching and smashing quite frankly, those goals. So we're looking forward to, again a great season ahead where we're talking to some fantastic humans. Thank you so much for everyone out there for joining us.
And if you want to find out what we're up to please check out our award winning power platform: Wearepower.net, you can find our podcasts, our webinars, our power circles, details about the awards, International Women's Day, everything out there. And actually, you can find out about all of our guests as well. And I'm delighted this week to introduce you to the absolutely in fact you used it in the intro was it a firestorm? I'm throwing that right back at you a firestorm of just awesomeness. Leila Mackenzie, welcome to the Northern Power Women podcast.
Leila 1:32
Thanks so much for having you having me. And I did. Absolutely. It's the first time I've ever used that word Firestorm. But that is the exact descriptor that I use for yourself, because I've had you as guest on our diverse, inclusive leaders podcast show, and you're absolutely incredible. To do this work takes a huge amount of tenacity, resilience and often the amount that you give of your personal self is off the Richter scale. And so I absolutely commend you for what you do. I'm very, very grateful to be here. Thank you!
Simone Roche 2:05
And thank you to you because what you've been doing over the last number of years has been absolutely phenomenal. You were of course on our 2022 Power list. And you're the founder and chief executive of Dial Global and it's very much about shifting and moving the dial for you literally the name is in the title there and you're an experienced business leader, public speaker presented chair, author and as you just mentioned, you have your own podcast as well. And you've been launching these amazing global diversity reviews as well. Now in its third year, am I right there. But amazing and you're working with some of the world's largest employers across the UK and the US. So looking forward to really catching up with everything that you've been up to cross everything that you're doing across your global hybrid summits, the global lounges, your app, your webinars, so much to get into. Let's just crack it. Leila, welcome. So where did this passion for diversity and inclusion, Ignite, or fire start, shall we say?
Leila 3:05
It wasn't something that was an intentional piece. In all honesty, if I take you right back to the beginning, diversity means different things to different people. And that's the beautiful thing about it. Diversity, inclusion, belonging, equity, culture, the whole intersection of everything means lots of different things to different people. In my personal instance, I'm a millennial, which is something that I'm kind of proudly saying, so I feel like I'm ageing rapidly since having a little baby but I'm Chinese. I was adopted by white British parents, I'm dyslexic. I'm super passionate about gender equity. I have a little baby boy who's eight and a half months old. His name is Peter, he is the love of my life. And he was a gift from the wonders of IVF and fertility treatment, which is nothing I'm terribly passionate about speaking of the moment. I didn't intend or know what really I was going to go into. I was interested in business, I did a Business and Management Studies degree, I was lucky enough to get a first class honours. And the presumption that I had at the time was that my degree will get me through the door within any one of the shining corporate organisations, which my peers are getting their roles in.
Leila 4:28
And the fact of the matter and I don't often always tell this story is I couldn't get a job at any of those corporate organisations. Now, I'm not saying there was a very specific reason for this, but it makes me truly believe and certainly know, when you start to look at the data science methodologies, that the cookie cutter model for what success looks like, is not the same for all.
And historically we've looked at success as being this very kind of specific area, and I've noticed through what pre Dial, when I spent a lot of time with an exec search and talent, the higher up the classical hierarchy you go, the lower and lower the diversity and by diversity, as I mentioned, it means many different things to many different people. And so whilst you and I certainly do, connect and love being very proud northern birds, which is ace, actually, there's so many other dimensions to this as well, the starting point is, it is different ultimately. And so this burning desire to want to level the playing field, but not just level, the playing field, allow diversity in its truest and most authentic form, come to life and be able to impact organisations, and the work they do positively. So that we can inspire Business Growth successful for all, not only for ourselves, our peers, but for future generations of leaders ultimately. And so, that is the whistlestop tour of why this is important and pertinent on a personal note, yet actually, each and every one of us is diverse. And so how we come to that party and how we allow our unique strengths to spearhead growth within our organisations and personally is often rather unique in many ways.
Simone Roche 6:36
And you talked about Northern, dyslexic, Chinese, you talk about these. But you also talk about that power of intersectionality. For businesses, how can businesses better harness that, as opposed to putting people into boxes and creating, like, as you say, cookie cutter doesn't work?
Leila 6:57
Well, there's never going to be a one size fits all model for success. And we talk a lot about equity, which I think is a fantastic word. Because really, in essence, it is about designating different resources as per the uniqueness of those certain circumstances. Organisations absolutely need to look at the actions, the interventions, the opportunities that sit within the talent within their organisation, but they also need to pay attention to where they are at right now. If in any other instance, I said to you in business, that you could be up to 35% more profitable, you would absolutely go for it. And diversity, I believe is not being utilised as the commercial lever with which it ought to be. And so understanding where you are at on the journey, within a business within an organisation is key.
And that means comparing apples and apples as much as you can do when it comes to certain challenge areas, what do I mean by comparing apples and apples. Well, when it comes to the data, and with the McKenzie Delis review, which we're calling the Dial Diversity review this year, we look specifically at CEO minus two. And we look at that CEO minus two level, because we realise that those who are full time executives within the organisation have got a huge power and impact to make a difference to the wider organisation not only externally, but hugely when it comes to internal talent as well and starting to put interventions in develop the pipeline out that allows us to remove any blockages for women, and many others within varying different groups of diversity to reach those senior echelons, if that makes sense. And so looking at 10 facets of diversity, which is what we do a huge amount of it weaves throughout the different work, we do at Dial so we look at everything from race, ethnicity, culture, disability, mental health and wellness. And all of these different areas combine if we look at where they are within that CEO minus two, we can track them exactly what performance is on those areas as each year goes on, I should say. And ultimately that what gets measured gets done. It's one of my favourite management expressions, but it is true.
Simone Roche 9:42
Have there ever been times that your otherness to people around you seem like a barrier, not an opportunity, and how did you refrain that?
Leila 9:51
I've become aware of my physical aspects of diversity previously but honestly, it was when I stepped into my own skin as weird as that might sound and embraced it. That's when the difference came about. So not trying to fit in and behave and act like others being a bit weird and a bit kooky is actually okay and ultimately in the realms of business, and organisations, if there is a different way to achieve positive outcomes and drive success when it comes to purpose and also commerciality, with organisations, it really shouldn't matter. I think there is, sometimes we call it the imposter syndrome, or we might, we might call it almost having that victim mentality ourselves, I think we can often be our own worst enemy, when it comes to things like that. Everyone else is not us, we can only be who we are. And so the exhaustion of not being yourself is a hard pill to swallow. So being yourself and actually finding those different aspects of what make you, and how you want to show up is really the best superpower that you can possibly have.
Simone Roche 11:13
I love that what a better way, you know, the exhaustion of not being you, I can totally feel that. And one of the things that you've set up across your community is their diverse, inclusive, aspirational leaders. So and you also talked earlier about sort of going through a business and as you get higher up that diversity, absolutely kind of falls through the floor. But what in your mind defines a great leader? And do you think it has changed over the last decade? Or in fact over the last couple of years with the pandemic?
Leila 11:48
It's a really interesting question. I, I truly believe that the old, stereotypical viewpoint of what a good or great leader looks like is starting to fall away. Leaders can't survive in that white ivory towered corner office situation, the stereotypical leader of that might bang their fists on the table or beat their hands on their chest and being loud and a very, you know directive? It's certainly not what we see great leaders being today. The most successful leaders that I come across today, those that have incredibly high emotional intelligence, and resilience. They don't actually necessarily know all of the answers. But they have empathy. They have resilience. They understand that we're living in a VUCA, quote, unquote, world, it's constantly changing, it's moving. It's adapting, if we don't have that emotional intelligence, that empathy, that resilience, that authenticity, how will people ever buy into the ultimate purpose, the mission, the goal of what we're trying to achieve?
The same comes for the diversity in the breadth of our stakeholders as well. This is not just individuals internally that want to follow leaders that have that authenticity, and that almost vulnerability, a lot of the time, but it's also external customers, investors, as well, that care that leaders are really looking at the social aspects. ESG is huge, as you probably know, Simone, and so the complexities of influence and understanding that leaders need to have today is far beyond the realms of what it used to be 10/20 years ago. I'll also add with technology with fantastic digital technology, there's so many things that can be emulated, that the human aspect cannot be emulated, by anything, and especially with our younger generations of leaders are millennials, Gen X, Y, Z etc. They care about leaders who really foster deep purpose. They can go on social media, we can go on to Twitter, or which and whatever the social platform is now and say exactly what we think was more accountability for leaders, it's easy to get found out if you don't mean what you say or if you're not willing to back up the actions of the words that you speak and so emotional intelligence I think is critical. I do think the role of the leader has shaped and evolved a huge amount but I do think it is for good. And for the right reasons.
Simone Roche 15:01
And we've said before on this podcast, people don't leave jobs, they leave bad leaders, I know you worked with an awful lot of huge organisations out there. Any great examples of organisations that are doing well, doing some of that transformation really well?
Leila 15:18
It's a really great question. I try now, not to look biased by calling out organisations that I think are doing great things. But there are a huge amount out there. The Co Op with a lot of its social equity and social mobility, I think is a wonderful, wonderful organisation. Of course, we have Shirine Khoury-Haq leading before there now. Brilliant leaders who came before her as well like Steve Morales, who's such an authentic and empathetic leader. Social mobility is key now to a lot of organisations strategy.
KPMG put some incredibly positively hairy targets out there when it came to looking at a lot of their workforce, needing to come from certain areas of the population and not necessarily now needing to have a degree or certain credentials from certain organisations or academic institutions. I think that is really transformative because we're then not looking at a small pool of the population and the level of privilege certainly with the knowing right people, right networks, etc, etc, those things start to break away somewhat. And so we give opportunity based upon the skill of the individual and excluding everything else. Pfizer, Walgreens Boots Alliance doing wonderful things about healthcare equity, health care, is a huge area, again, when it comes to the realms of diversity. And interestingly, private equity companies now and investors are really looking at how important the social aspects of ESG is, because their investors, their stakeholders care about purpose driven capital. So I hope that gives a couple of good examples of what is happening, but I could go one, there are many people.
Simone Roche 17:17
And if an organisation or a leader out there, irrespective of their size, their sector, their location, could do just one thing to help their employers bring their whole selves to work and unleash that full potential. What would that be?
Leila 17:31
If employers could do one thing, I'm going to sound really, really bias here. However, I know that it works because it is grounded in numbers and data, I would say, look at the data. The data doesn't lie, but make sure you're looking at the right data. We'd love you to get involved with our Dial Diversity review, which is entirely free to participate in, it will tell you where you're at CEO minus two across 10 dimensions, what gets measured gets done, but we cannot have the data without having the voice. The voice and the purpose and the stories behind each and every individual within the organisation is critical. So speaking out, will always be something that is the heart and centre of this because people's hearts, their minds aren't in what they're doing. They're not going to be infused about the work that they do every day and we can really grow and inspire change and drive engagement.
Simone Roche 18:46
Leila, thank you so much for joining us on this week's podcast and bringing your whole self well everything that you're doing out there you can find details of the review and of Dial in the show notes please do follow it and see what Leila was doing there and her team because it's absolutely ground-breaking shifting the dial moving things on, cracking on in true northern style Leila, thank you so much for joining me.
Leila 19:09
The pleasure has been all mine. Thank you so much for everything that you do.
Simone Roche 19:12
And thanks to everyone out there listening as I say please do check out Leila and everything around Dial in the show notes and do follow her because she's got so much insight there to do and so much that every individual leader can learn from.
Thank you for listening today. Please do stay connected on all our socials at North Power Women on Twitter and Northern Power Women and all the other ones and do stay connected via our power platform which is undergoing ongoing developments. You can see all of our short list of all of our new powerless future lists all details of all our events, our parent mentoring, so it's busy we want to be busy because we want to keep you connected. Thank you so much for joining.
My name is Simone and you are listening to the Northern Power Women podcast a What Goes On Media Production.