[00:00:00] Intro: Northern Power Women podcast for your career and your life. No matter what business you're in.
[00:00:26] Simone Roche MBE: Hello, and welcome to the Northern Power Women podcast. I'm your host and Simone Roche. and every week I'm joined by one of our phenomenal Northern Power Women community, who we can all learn from and take top tips. And I can't quite believe it, but today's is episode 150 of the Northern Power Women podcast. Who'd have thought it! We've been doing this podcast for almost five years, starting back in 2017 with a passion to create a platform, to talk about your career, your life, your lessons, and of course showcase those brilliant role models. So thank you so much to every single one of you has been on. And this week is no different as I had the pleasure of chatting to Ravinder Shawe Senior Legal Counsel for Siemens in Manchester and part of the senior leadership team for Siemens Digital Industries Business. She's been practicing law for 18 years, 11 of which have been with Siemens across several countries in Canada, the HQ in Germany, and now here at Siemens GB&I for the past six years.
[00:01:25] Rav has a strict attention to detail, but with that outside the box mindset, enabling creative and adaptive solutions. And in addition to a day job, which is very extensive is part of the EDI community at Siemens advocating for gender, race, and allyship, as well as founding the brand new race, equality network Empower UK.
[00:01:44] Rav mentors, apprentices, graduates and students, and in the greater Manchester community, as well as Siemens, including MBA students at the Alliance Manchester business school, something that we are very, very passionate about here at Northern Power Women and our Power Collective mentoring is so, so important.
[00:02:01] And you're also leading Rav on a pilot reverse mentorship, cross company program for the tech inclusion partnership, which is a group of EDI thought leaders collaboratively working to make the technology industry more inclusive. And rightfully so, this year rather has been added to the Northern Power Women list 2022.
[00:02:20] Welcome Ravinder!
[00:02:22] Ravinder Shawe: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's such an honor to be on this, on this podcast and it was an honor to receive the Power List award this year, thank you.
[00:02:30] Simone Roche MBE: Do you consider yourself a role model? I think that's one of the things we always wrestling with when we were going through our nomination program, you clearly are, but sometimes it can be hard to recognize it in ourselves.
[00:02:40] Ravinder Shawe: Yeah. Yeah. Do I see myself as a role model? I think yes and no. We've had this chat before or, you know, where I just try to fill the gaps I had in my childhood and early career in terms of not really having someone to look up to or someone to turn to for guidance, you know, and as you can imagine, growing up and I'm going to date myself here, in the seventies, eighties and early nineties, there weren't a lot of visible women in leadership or high profile roles.
[00:03:07] And this is even on TV. And I was fortunate that the few women there were, had done such an amazing job, blazing that trail for others like me. So I've always seen it as my responsibility to continue to pay it forward. For other young women. Some of my actions have been deliberate as part of that, paying it forward concept, but some actions that others see as role modeling are just part of what I do, it's just who I am.
[00:03:33] So, you know, whether it's pulling aside some of our younger female colleagues to chat about their careers or give them advice or to mentor them, or just learning to speak up in meetings and against behaviors that, you know, I know are wrong because again, that's just my personality. So some of our actions are deliberate.
[00:03:51] Some of it again is just what I do and what most of us just do.
[00:03:55] Simone Roche MBE: And I love the pay it forward. We always talk about, pay it forward, be generous with your skills and time and make a difference. And sometimes it says, just think it's those little conversations that can make that massive difference. I think don't you?
[00:04:06] Ravinder Shawe: It is. And you know, like sometimes you're just walking through the office. I see someone's face after they've just had a meeting and, you know, something's happened. We've been there haven't we where you can, where they've probably missed an opportunity to say something or somebody really upset them.
[00:04:21] Maybe it's a behavior or an action. And they just don't know how to respond in the moment. So you just, you know, go over and say, Hey, you know, come take a walk with me or grab a coffee and just sit them down and really just say, what's going on? Can see you're upset what's happening? And sometimes that's all, it needs to let that, that floodgate of frustration commit.
[00:04:42] Cause they don't know who to talk to and they don't want to be seen as complainers. So again, it's just that it's just, what we do and. The situation when you're walking through the office on these days, or when you see somebody, a good friend and you can see something's upset, then we just ask right? And a lot of it just starts with that asking.
[00:05:00] Simone Roche MBE: Absolutely. I think that was one of the conversations we talked about over lockdown. It's like, keep checking in, keep checking in on people. And I think I love the way you used the word sort of intentional. I think that's so important. Intentional and deliberate. I think that's something we talk about intentional and deliberate actions and stuff like that because they can mean such an awful lot. And you know what I loved last month or was it the month before now? Where does the time go? International Women's day. This year, you put a brilliant LinkedIn post out with a montage of women.
[00:05:27] Can you describe who was on your montage and why you posted it? Because I loved it.
[00:05:32] Ravinder Shawe: Yeah. I loved that montage. When I found that I thought, oh, this is the one, it was a montage of these brilliant television and feminist film icons and action heroes that I grew up with. So it was like, you know, Xena, Princess Leia, Ripley from Aliens, Hermione Granger from Harry Potter Wonder Woman of course, Arya Stark Brienne of Tarth from Game Of Thrones and like Sarah Connor from Terminator. There was just so many on there and it was so wonderful to finally see just this montage of people that we saw as role models, all in one place.
[00:06:05] And I chose this one, especially for International Women's Day this year, cause I really wanted to show the important, how important representation is in every aspect of our lives, not just in board rooms or at work, but on, you know, on television and in films, especially for young girls. So, you know, if you're a six year old, 10 year old, a 13 year old girl and you don't see someone that looks like you on television or in movies.
[00:06:30] How do you really know what possibilities are open for you, what you can expire to, or even if you'd be accepted. And I think that comes from, very early in our life. Limits are created for young girls based on stereotypes and gender norming. And sometimes it's in our own, in our own heads. So we need to celebrate these visible feminist film icons who break that mold and have actually become hugely important role models for young girls, including myself, especially when there is so few women in leadership or leading roles.
[00:07:05] Young girls need to see women like them who look like them, who are not Disney princesses and damsels in distress. You know, who are these brave women showing incredible leadership and very positive skills and young girls are not frankly, and they're not going to look to the corporate world or the political arena, you know, at age six, nine or 12, they look to television and movies and books.
[00:07:30] So if they see these really brave, innovative bad-ass can I say that?
[00:07:36] Simone Roche MBE: You can!
[00:07:38] So the traits we talked about, we've talked about bravery. We've talked about badass and kick-ass, you know, I think that they're really strong and they let you say this isn't the damsels in this distress is that, you know, these are the key traits that stand out for those role models.
[00:07:52] Ravinder Shawe: Yeah. Yeah. For me , I think, you know, being, bad-ass, a bit of a rebel, fearless and fearful, and they're fearless all at the same time and that's what makes them so kick ass and very, very strong and courageous because. You're still afraid. You're afraid, but you still do it. Isn't it. And that's that fearlessness part of it.
[00:08:10] So, you know, again, they're very, very strong feminist icons and you want to emulate those traits, you know, when you see these, these types of characters on the screen and how people all over the world react to them. So. I think at an early age, we have to start celebrating the power of this feminist film icon is a really true, fantastic role model that they are.
[00:08:31] Simone Roche MBE: And there weren't a lot of women of color in your montage. You know, the answer there's obviously a long way to go in Hollywood, isn't there when it comes to diversity. Cause I know representation is so massively important to you.
[00:08:41] Ravinder Shawe: Yeah, you're correct. There is, we are influenced, obviously I grew up in Canada, so I was heavily influenced by what was on American television.
[00:08:49] So there was a lot of, not a lot. There was some black and Hispanic and Latinex women of color in Hollywood. They were really in real protagonist or action hero roles. It was, you know, they had the Selma Hayak and Maria Conchita Alonzo, Lynda Carter who played wonder woman on TV, she's actually she's mixed race. She was half Mexican, which a lot of people don't know. Angela Basett, Whoopi Goldberg and Halle Berry, but Hollywood's never been very diverse until recently in the global film industry, including the British film industry have finally started to embrace these ideas of inclusion and representation and all the good that comes with it.
[00:09:30] You know, they're recognizing that celebrating diverse stories broadens that audience audience base. And we really see that with the success of, you know, some of the Marvel movies, Black Panther, Shang-Chi, Crazy Rich Asians, Parasite,Slumdog, millionaire, you know, like Disney's Encanto and Netflix series like Narcos or Squid Game or Bridgerton it's still a long way to go, but it's really refreshing that the film industry and audiences are recognizing that representation does matter everywhere and we need to see people like ourselves on the big screen, on television and celebrate these role models for future generations.
[00:10:09] Simone Roche MBE: And who was that one role model that you could identify with in business? When you started your career, were there any British Asian women or global Asian women in senior roles that you could identify with?
[00:10:20] Ravinder Shawe: There weren't a lot in the UK or Canada, to be honest. I had, you know, I work with some inspiring women more recently that I admire as role models. They weren't British Asian . It was much later in my career, like I'm thinking of my past two CFOs here in the UK, and that was Maria Ferraro and Angela Noon, who again, were both fearless and outspoken, assertive and so kind.
[00:10:42] And they always seem ready for battle. But I would say, you know, again, if we had to go the business world does not reflect society very well still. And that's our job, isn't it, our not our job, but I think that's our passion is to try to get it to that point where hopefully one day it does British Asians, you know, again, you would probably have to look to the film industry, you know, cause there's such a marked lack of, of them in movies, in television, especially when I was younger.
[00:11:10] You know, I was inspired by Parmender Niagara, from Bend It Like Beckham and ER, and another British Asian actress I really, really admire is Archie Panjabi who again is from Bend It Like Beckham and East Is East and The Good Wife. And they're both British Asian actresses who really open the doors and blaze that trail for other British Asians in mainstream television and film.
[00:11:32] But again, the business world is so far behind it, isn't it?
[00:11:35] Simone Roche MBE: And I think this is why we've got, we just got to work harder. Haven't we. We've got to work harder. We've got to be, we've got to take our responsibility as role models. We've got to un earth those role models, and we've got to celebrate those successes as well you know. And I know as well as representation and diversity, I know so passionate about growth mindset and shared a really fascinating article about asking for advice, not feedback. Can you explain?
[00:11:57] Ravinder Shawe: Oh God. Yeah, I shared that article on LinkedIn and it was on this paradigm shift of, you know, let's stop asking for feedback, you know, start asking everyone for advice. And it's really something that got, you know, the rusty cogs in my brain spinning, you know, we were always trained to keep asking our managers and teammates for feedback so we can figure out what we did wrong and fix it. And feedback really doesn't have a lot of impact on our performance.
[00:12:20] And a lot of times it actually negatively impacts us because we tend to focus on our past missteps and failures and always trying to figure out why we failed or didn't succeed and growth mindset. On the other hand, thriving on the challenge and change and not seeing failure as a bad thing, but as a catalyst for growth and to develop your own abilities.
[00:12:42] So in asking for advice, you're asking about future actions, you know, how do I learn? How do I improve and grow? Instead of seeking feedback, which is really focusing on past actions and errors and analyzing and over analyzing, you know, you have to think about what can I do. Better next time or what can I try instead?
[00:13:03] And you know, by doing that, you create this element of fearlessness in you about, you know, learning to fail and just picking yourself up and going again. And I think sometimes we spend too much time on the error. And we do spend too much time on the error part of it.
[00:13:19] Simone Roche MBE: We do. We'll obviously, you know, we even, we talked about the awards prior to this.
[00:13:23] You'll always think about the small things that go wrong rather than the big, massive success of things. You'll always go, oh gosh, I need to fix that teeny tiny thing instead of really amplifying that good stuff. And I think so I'm going to take, I need to take a leaf out of that. As for the for the advice, what can we do to improve?
[00:13:39] What can we do to really enhance? What can we do to make this better rather than go back and go, oh gosh, tell me everything that we did wrong? And that's, that's part of your, these conversations that you have as part of those bite-size mentoring chats that you have when you're walking through the office, isn't it?
[00:13:53] Ravinder Shawe: Yeah. And you have to, you know, I think we all do this. We tell everybody the advice we wish we took, right? It's like, you know, they say, what do I do? And I said, don't dwell on it. Figure out the solution for the next time you tried something, it didn't work, try something else, you know, don't dwell on why it didn't work.
[00:14:08] You know, we have to think about progress, not perfection, right? Like just keep going!
[00:14:12] Simone Roche MBE: Progress, not perfection. I love that. And finally, what's your advice to anyone out there who you want to be more Ripley or be more Princess Leia. What are your top tips and your top advice for standing up and being heard?
[00:14:25] Ravinder Shawe: Oh gosh. Yeah. Ripley and Princess Leia were two of my biggest role models are children. So, you know, again for being badass and kick ass, So I would say, my advice would be to trust yourself and, you know, let your fearless fearlessness out. I think we all have it in us and you have to convince yourself that it's okay to be fearless and try something, fail at it.
[00:14:45] Just pick yourself up and keep going. And again, when I look at like Ripley or Leia you know, you take the sci-fi aspect out of this, obviously, they're just normal women in extraordinary circumstances, no superhuman strength, their power is just ,you know, confident and a belief in themselves and they're fearless and they don't apologize for speaking up for making the decisions or, you know, taking over situations and being in charge. And I think we neither should we, you know, they're just, they're fearless, badass, selves. And so should we?
[00:15:14] Simone Roche MBE: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I love that. I think fearless. Fearless has been a big word for me today. So thank you so much, Rav for being here today and thank you for joining in our 150th episode.
[00:15:27] Thank you.
[00:15:27] Ravinder Shawe: Oh, congratulations. Yes, thank you for having me.
[00:15:30] Simone Roche MBE: If you love ,our episodes, let us know by rating, reviewing and subscribing to the podcast. Let your friends know about us or reach out on socials @northpowerwomen on Twitter and at Northern Power Women on all of our other social media. Drop us a line at podcast@northernpowerwomen.com.
[00:15:45] Our next power up networking session where you can pay it forward and pass on your skills or gain skills and knowledge takes place on the 16th of May. Over lunch time, 12 to 1. Please sign up in the show notes, whether you're looking for advice or happy to give it, these sessions are hugely impactful and we generated something like three quarters or a million pounds social value so far.
[00:16:05] We'd love you to sign up to our award-winning PoWEr Platform and Be Heard platforms. It's all about technology. It's all about connectivity, but we are passionate about paying it forward and leveling up the media and industry and events industry as well. So, but for now, join me next Monday, 151st episode, hasn't quite gotten the ring, but I'll be joined by another wonderful role model from the Northern Power Women community.
[00:16:26] I'm Simone Roche and you've been listening to the Northern Power Women podcast. A what goes on media production!