Simone Roche 0:11
Hello, hello, and welcome to the Northern Power Women Podcast. I am your host, Simone Roche and this is the We Are More season, which is all about chatting to our winners, our commended, our partners of the Northern Power Women awards. Since we held our fantastic ceremony back in March. I do not know where the time has gone. And this week, I am delighted to be joined. We're in two hats. Actually, we've got Jodie Cunningham, who is on our Future List, but is also representing the Rugby Football League who splendidly won the Small Organisation category this year and have been might have to say a little bit busy recently. Jodie, welcome to the podcast.
Jodie Cunningham 1:03
Hi, Simone. Yeah, very busy. From a personal perspective, and obviously from an RFL perspective, really big year for us, particularly for the women with a Rugby League World Cup that's just been finished, that I competed in and has been huge for us as a sort of domestic governing body. But for Rugby League as a whole. It's been absolutely massive.
Simone Roche 1:22
It has been amazing. And I know this has been a long time. I think we first met in Newcastle when you brought the trophy on tour over when we first launched Northern Power Futures. That was three or four years ago. Was that right?
Jodie Cunningham 1:36
Yeah you're right. That was sort of right at the start of my journey as being the women's ambassador for the Rugby League World Cup. And so yeah, had no idea where that journey would take me and how amazing this World Cup would be for Women's Rugby League. It's been brilliant.
Simone Roche 1:52
And it really has, hasn't it? I remember coming to an event at Old Trafford at one point and it was talking about the launch of the World Cup. And it was set out right from the start of being the most diverse tournament across any sporting organisations globally. And I think you nailed it, quite frankly, by combining the men's the women's the wheelchair tournaments into one, I think super mega tournament. It's just been so inspirational. I think as an overused word, but it's just been so kind of galvanising, I think is the word and why is it been important to you?
Jodie Cunningham 2:31
I mean, I think one of the straplines that has been used and was part of the mission really, of the World Cup was be the biggest, best and most inclusive. And that's that it's a bold statement that was made early on, and I genuinely believe it is from every aspect that you can think of biggest investor, number of teams, number of players competing, the sort of the money, the turnaround, everything that's been spent and everything that's been brought in its biggest and best and I think everyone would agree who attended the game or was part of the tournament that it absolutely was. And then looking at sort of the inclusiveness, it was the most diverse playing population that there's ever had it a World Cup men's, women's, wheelchair tournaments, which brought so much I think, to the overall feeling.
I remember when I first got asked to be the ambassador for the tournament, and Jon Dutton the CEO explained, we do men's women's and wheelchair together, they're going to be on equal platform, it really will be fantastic. And I jumped at the chance but equally, I was probably a bit apprehensive as to will it really be on this sort of level playing field that I'm being told it's going to be because it was just never my experience before in Women's Rugby League. And they absolutely smashed it out of the water and I worked for the World Cup for three years, and really saw the behind the scenes of how important it was to make sure that all the female athletes, the wheelchair athletes really did feel included in this tournament and like they were valued as athletes and 100% that was the case and if you ask any of the players that were part of this tournament, they've got memories for life and it is one of the most amazing experiences I was ever part of and now sort of in my job working for the RFL and doing women and girls development, it's all about taking advantage of this profile, we've now given the women's athletes and obviously wheelchair athletes as well because we have so much love and support and more eyes on the sport than ever before. And in my opinion, people talking about the women's and the wheelchair game, possibly more than the men's which is, it's a breath of fresh air and I think people are seeing the value and in really having an inclusive sport that is open to everyone to get involved, enjoy and excel in. So yeah, it's been a massive success and I think you know, it will probably be a long time till we actually realise the impact that it's had.
Simone Roche 4:46
And having seen some of our brilliant Northern Power Women community hopping on trains and coaches and cars to get across. The fantastic, Sandy Lindsay MBE was like kind of one our brilliant, I think she's been everywhere in the groups that we're part of she is without a shadow of a doubt. Every day has been in there being like the number one find going, please give this some love. Let's get behind this. Let's make sure this is living, breathing, forever. And I think that's one of the legacies isn't it is to kind of enable that feelgood factor to keep going.
Jodie Cunningham 5:18
Absolutely yes, Sandy's been one of our biggest advocates, since she got involved with the RFL and with Rugby League, she's always been fantastic. And it's just brilliant that I think people are really listening to what people are saying now and they've given it a goal, this World Cup gave them an opportunity to see it, you know, all games were live across the BBC, so people have the opportunity to stumble across it, or just give it a go. If you haven't seen it before. And unanimously, I think people fell in love with the sport, which is brilliant. So yeah, people like Sandy have been fantastic. And you talk about legacy and, and you say it sort of happened beforehand. And you're right from both aspects from from an RFL perspective, we spoke about pre legacy a lot about making sure that we take advantage in the sports in a position to make the most of all of the profile, we're gonna get all of the interests and engagement we'll have, and hopefully all of the young people that will inspire and everything was set out to make sure that beforehand, we're in the right position to take advantage of it. And definitely from a World Cup perspective, it was a legacy, I actually worked across the legacy programme as it was initially termed, but actually, we changed the title of it. And we said, you know, legacy is probably not the right term, because that does focus on everything afterwards. Actually, it's a social impact programme, and we're making an impact in people's lives, well before there's a whistle blowing to kick off the tournament. Loads of people had the opportunity to experience being part of the World Cup in loads of different ways, whether that be volunteering. We had an amazing inclusive volunteering programme, where hundreds of people with learning disabilities, autism, other support needs, had the opportunity to volunteer at tournament time, but also in loads of pre tournament projects that built confidence gave them skills and experiences that they could go on and transfer into loads of different areas of their lives. And, they may never pick up a Rugby League Ball, they can because we've got learning disability variants of the game as well. But if they don't want to, that's absolutely fine. But we want to make sure with this tournament that everybody could experience it, even if they don't want to play the game, or even if they're not big fans are watching it, you know, can you be part of the Rugby League family, as we like to call it without actually happen to want to play the game? Which I think, we did succeed. And we have so many different ways in which we did that with the social impact programme, the mental fitness programme, that ran alongside that as well, the education programme, we really did want to make sure that everyone could be part of it. And hopefully, we succeeded.
Simone Roche 7:41
Absolutely, fundamentally you have. And so you are now the National Women and Girls Development Manager for the RFL, which appears to me like it's your perfect role. What does that entail?
Jodie Cunningham 7:52
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a lot and I feel the pressure of it. I think, because I care so much. I suppose I'm very fortunate, everyone says, If you know, if you do a job you love, you'll never work a day in your life, which, you know, is true. But I think when you love what you do as much as I do, and are so heavily invested in it, it's also hard because it's not just a job, you care so much in the outcome. And you're so invested in the outcome that I don't think you have an off button with it. And I certainly don't. So yeah, I think my role is, is about helping, supporting change, putting programmes in place that take some of the barriers down for women and girls participating in Rugby League. And hopefully, we've gone a long way of doing that. I've been in the role now, sort of 10/11 months and looking at different ways that we can change. We've introduced a nines competition to help support, making sure that we've got all different clubs that can take part in a more level playing field, raise the profile, bring you commercial interest into the game, hopefully, which is absolutely what we need, and this tournament will have helped with. But yeah, looking at different programmes.
And then next year, we want to really focus on that younger age group that's seven to elevens. And, you know, at the minute, it's when you're under 11, you play in mixed teams, which are predominantly boys teams. So there might be one girl on a team now actually when I go around and see lots of girls in teams, which is brilliant. But that might not be the right environment for a young girl. If they're starting out for the first time. It might be a little bit daunting. And it's creating teams actually, why can't we have an all girls, seven year old team, eight year old nine year old team, we don't have to have mixed teams. And I think that's absolutely the way to go. We had our first ever all girls, under sevens fixture this year, and that just authentically happened. Girls have come together and want to play as part of a girls team. And how brilliant is that? It shows that there's a need for it. And that's sort of going to be a big focus of ours just to make sure that all young girls feel welcome in Rugby League and they can play mixed if they want to but also there's a different variation for them as well. And for me, that's sort of a big focus. It's using hopefully my experience, going through all the pathways that there has been right from sort of starting out at school through to playing for England at a World Cup, it's making sure that I can use those experiences, those lived experiences, which are really important to try and guide some of the ways that we do things. It's not about copy and paste what we do for the boys or the men. It's about making sure that what we put is the right fit for women and girls, it's what they need it, it gives them the best environment to excel and enjoy the sport. I'm such a different person, because I decided to go to that training session for the first time and pick up a Rugby League ball. And yeah, my life is completely different, but so much better for it. So hopefully I can help a lot of young girls start on that journey too.
Simone Roche 10:33
And how did you get you said, you went to that first session? How did you get into it? Because Rugby League has a massive strong northern identity, didn't it? So where was that pathway was it literally just picking it up that day?
Jodie Cunningham 10:45
Yeah, pretty much. I'm from Warrington, we've got a professional l team in Warrington walls, that's, very prominent in the town. But my family weren't Rugby League people. So very much football, lots of other sports, we were really sporty, but Rugby League wasn't necessarily one that really featured in our house. And it wasn't anything I'd ever really been interested in. And then feels like fate a little bit. I feel very lucky that the year I started high school was the year they started the champions girl's tournament for girls. So we already had rich history in the boy's game and lots of professional players that people will have heard of have played and in that competition and excelled and got to the finals. And they started it for the girls. So there was a big push around trying to get new new schools to try rugby league and get a girls' team involved. And again, I feel fortunate that me and Emily Rudge went to the same high school so we just got friends, became like really close friends really quickly, both really sporty. And she just had to stop playing with the boys. So she turned 11. It's hard to find sort of an all-girls team. So she was so adamant that we were going to get a girls team together. And she rallied round along with a couple of teachers who were really influential to get enough girls to commit to try Rugby League. And I'll be honest, I wasn't one of them. At first, I was scared, I think not necessarily about the contact more about, you know that fear of failure of not being good at something that was so new to me. And so yeah, I wasn't convinced at first and then the girls did really well. They all absolutely loved it. And they got through to the finals. And if nothing else, they would get into miss a couple of lessons and I felt left out being sat there in the classroom on my own so I decided to give it a go. And I said alright, go on Emily, I'll give it a go. And then it was sort of instant fall in love. I did so many different sports and everything else fell away at that point. I just wanted to commit all my time to rugby league. And we went on and we won that competition four times on the run and I just wanted to play as much Rugby League as I could so that was it. We were trying to find local teams and it wasn't wanting Warrington so my dad and Emily's dad actually created Warrington girls team. So we created our own club side and we ended up being champions at national level from a club perspective as well. And actually our parents now are best friends as well as us still being best friends which is which is pretty special. So me and Emily have been through this journey all through schools girls rugby right through to open age playing for England together. And our families have experienced that together as well which is really nice. So yeah, it's always I always feel like I've got that sort of comfort blanket with me whenever I'm on tour or in a World Cup. I've got that little bit of home with me and Emily were that big support network for each other
Simone Roche 13:25
And you talked about that, didn't you before is that this is a Rugby League. It is a family isn't it is a family that wraps around it. And you now have the Betfred's Women's Super League, don't we which is the flagship Women's Rugby League competition and I know this is a competition that you really passionately drive participation in, don't you? Tell me about the successes of this and what you're most proud of?
Jodie Cunningham 13:47
Yeah, I think for me, the Women's Super League is part of that pre legacy. So when we got back from the World Cup in 2017 all the focus on all the talk was how do we put England in the best place to win the next World Cup, should have been 2021. Obviously COVID delayed it by a year. So it was this year, but it was all about focus on that and how do we make sure that we grow and professionalise the women's competition into what it can be and what it should be. So 2018 was the first sort of full year of Women's Super League around creating this more professional competition where each of the clubs, that part of it had to be linked to a professional men's club whether that be Championship or Super league. And at that point I was playing in St. Helens for club and St. Helens started aside and basically a lot of the girls that played at that team were brought across to St. Helens. At the time again, I had no sort of real idea what this would come to be. And year on year it's just made the women's game explode in terms of interesting girls wanting to play and interesting fans wanting to be there and watch and support us. And I genuinely believe it was brilliant that we basically used the power of the badge and the power of the brand to get that interest.
So, there was so many young girls and I realised the power of it that very first year I was injured. So I got injured just before the World Cup and most of the 2018 first season I spent recovering from a knee operation. And I remember doing a presentation at the end of that season. And it was for my old club that, it was for the girls section and a parent came up to me afterwards and was like, thank you so much. And I was like I've not really done anything. He was like, no, you've made me not have to lie to my daughter anymore. Because she has said for years when we sat in the stands at St. Helens. Dad I am going to play for St's one day and that was never possible. I used to, I'd sort of pamper to her because I didn't want to break a little heart. And then now he said, I don't have to lie anymore. She can wear that kit, she can play in that stadium, and she can represent the club that she loves. And that was the power of what the Women's Super League brought. It was that already fan base that we had, young girls who were already in love with this sport, and this club of theirs, whether that be St. Helens, Warrington, Wigan, wherever it was, they now had the power that was the draw for them to want to play or stick in the game, because we have a lot of girls that sort of fall out of the sport at 15/16, when all the priorities come into play. And actually, this has really helped with that retention, because the opportunity to play for that club is massive. And equally from a fan base perspective, I've never realised how powerful a team can be and what a difference it can make in communities until sort of represent an employee of St. Helens and the support we get from people in the community and how much they say means when we were successful and they get to come down and be there. And what does in finals, it's massive I've had doctors come up to me and say, you are such a strong, powerful female role model just like the rest of the team. And that's really important for us to have for young girls in St. Helens, they need the likes of you to look up to and we didn't really have that before. And again, it's when you have conversations like that you realise what you're doing is much bigger than sport. You're creating opportunities and pathways for young girls who might not have other options in life. And that's really important.
Simone Roche 17:18
I'm just gonna say is that led me right into role models, it's the heart of everything we do is that young girl wants to play for Everton ladies, and there wasn't a thing. There was no such thing as female football. You are that role model? Are you comfortable with being that role model because you're flippin good at it?
Jodie Cunningham 17:39
You know, It's an honour to be classed as a role model. As you know, as we all are as women's players. And like I say, it sort of does add pressure, because actually you're not just representing yourself. And you know, when you're a sports person, you competitive you always want to do the best you can. But you're representing something even bigger than just winning that game or competing in that league or that competition, you genuinely are representing the dreams of what young girls can be. And we're just a stepping stone in that there's been lots of women who have paved the way and fought and knocked down barriers to allow us to get to the point that we're at, hopefully, we're doing the same so that these young girls now we're being inspired, who hopefully, we are role models for all they're in a much better position with even better opportunities, and hopefully don't have to balance a full time job alongside playing for the club that they love which that's the ultimate dream. So yeah, it's so lovely to be to be called a role model. But yeah, it definitely adds pressure, because I want to make sure that I am the best role model I can be. And I know when I was younger, I couldn't name you a women's player. So I didn't even know there was an England team. When I started playing. I just tried this sport, loved it, great. I'd never seen women or girls playing it. So it never even come on to my radar that that was an option. And then a coach said to me, he said to me and Emily, after a session, he was like you to stick at it. I think he could play for England one day. And as soon as he said that, it was like a penny drop moment of, Wow, I can represent my country in this sport. That's brilliant. Right? Well how do I do that. And where does that look like? How do we get there? It just was, there was no visibility of it. Whereas hopefully now we provide that visibility so that young girls don't need to be told that it's an option, they can see it already. They can strive to be that like, it gives them a way of wanting to commit and wanting to strive for a dream and work hard for something because they can see that it's there. It's not just this thing that someone has to explain to them. It's there. It's visible. And hopefully there's a lot of girls that see that and wants to sort of follow in our footsteps a little.
Simone Roche 19:42
Well, do you know what? It's absolutely amazing. If ever there could be an ambassador, a role model that is literally paving the way and that continuous paving the way for others. So, Jodie you are such an amazing role model. I'm so delighted that you've been able to join us on the podcast today after such a phenomenal tournament. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Jodie Cunningham 20:08
Thank you. It's brilliant to be here.
Simone Roche 20:10
We will put information in the show notes about how you can get involved, how you can be part of this social impact and get involved with Rugby Football League as well because it's amazing and everything that done over the last month or so with the tournament has been fantastic.
Simone Roche 20:24
But please do get in touch with us at Northern Power Women podcast at Northernpowerwomen.com. Stay up to date with all of our events, our mentoring, build your profile on our power platform and do leave us a review. We'd like those to join in the conversation at northpowerwomen on Twitter and Northern Power Women on all our other socials.
Simone Roche 20:41
Join us next Monday where I will be joined by another fantastic role model from across the community. I'm Simone Roche. You've been listening to the Northern Power Women podcast a What Goes On Media Production.