How to Accelerate Change Together

Speaker  0:19  
The Northern Power Women podcast for your career and your life, no matter what business you're in. 

Simone Roche MBE  0:26  
Hello, hello and welcome to the fourth episode of the Level Up season of this the Northern Power Women podcast. This season I've been speaking to our fabulous community of Northern Power Women from across all our regions and sectors, genders, bringing all those stories, tips, tricks, wisdom, takeaways, and more from those of you who are levelling up the North. 

By now, I hope you know, but in case we don't we published our Levelling Up by Powering On report last year with three key asks give us seats at the table. Let us be part of those conversations where decisions are being made, invest in our female led and Black, Asian and minority ethnic led businesses and invest in our future talent. A year on we have delivered on these asks, and have made fantastic progress and it's now time to report back on what we've achieved. But we want to hear from you and how you have been levelling up. If you click the link in the show notes, our ask, please complete the survey. It's all about the progress report, which we'll be bringing out later this year survey to ask how you have enabled people to take board positions, how you have taken positions and seats at the table. So please report back so we can shout about the fabulous work that we're doing up here across the north of England. So now someone who was very familiar with Levelling Up is my next guest the amazing Afiya Amesu. Afiya has recently completed her master's degree and postgraduate course for barristers, and is due to commence Pupilage what a great word in 2022. Alongside this, she has co founded an organisation called She Leads For Legacy to advance the representation of black female professionals in senior leadership roles. She's passionate about racial diversity and female empowerment, Afiya has written articles sat on student panels contributed to podcast to share her thoughts on how we as a society can better tackle diversity and inclusion. And I'm lucky to have Afiya here with me today. Welcome, welcome Afiya how are you?

Afiya Amesu  2:30  
I'm great. Thanks for having me, Simone. So thrilled to be here,

Simone Roche MBE  2:34  
where you totally jumped up at me when we were talking about, you know, we wanted to sort of say, do this progress report on Levelling Up. And when we talk about seats at the table, when we talk about being haired when we talk about female and black owned businesses, when we talk about supporting young people, I hate, we don't tick boxes here. But you absolutely represent every single one of those asks, don't you tell us tell us about She Leads For Legacy.

Afiya Amesu  2:59  
So I co founded this organisation with my mum early this year. And so our aim is to advance the representation of black women into senior leadership and board level roles. And that looks like both empowering black women to step into those roles, but also working with allies, non black women who want to support their black female colleagues and staff to get into those senior leadership positions. We're really passionate about racial and gender diversity. And so our mission is to really create a conversation and create an atmosphere where people can contribute to change.

Simone Roche MBE  3:32  
And we, you know, we see often a lot of posts out there and you know, we talk in our Levelling Up about supporting female lead and black owned businesses. But, you know, do these campaigns really hold value when when we ask to support black owned businesses? You know, I know one of your, your big passions is about, you know, let's not be waiting around for changes of accelerating change together. But, you know, what do these campaigns do in mean for you?

Afiya Amesu  3:57  
I think that supporting black owned businesses are essential. And I think actually, it's one of the most accessible and practical ways of being an ally. It allows you to sew directly back into the community irrespective of your job role or your socio economic status. You can support black businesses like shopping on websites like Jammy or go into black owned restaurants using black owned service providers. It also looks like attending black run events shows productions, signposting your family and friends to black owned businesses and using your platform to spotlight the work of those in your local community. I think it really provides an opportunity for you to see diverse talent for you to spotlight it and for you to practically show that you are willing and dedicated to support the black community.

Simone Roche MBE  4:46  
And if you want to find anything else about She Leads For Legacy, there's an amazing conference I attended a couple of Saturdays ago. It was brilliant content, brilliant energy, brilliant conversations and great actions have been taken from that. We will have details in the shownotes. So what message would you want to send to companies out there about how they can do better, and how they can speak more to their younger members of staff?

Afiya Amesu  5:10  
Well, generally, when you look at the representation of people of colour, or women in senior leadership positions, it is almost nil, or very, very few people in those positions. And it means that only certain views, perspectives or experiences are being used to influence key decision making. So companies need to be intentional about changing this. And this can look like three different things that I've identified. 

Firstly, collecting data, you can't address an issue or challenge if you don't actually know what the challenge is. You need to be aware of what you're dealing with, so you can tackle it effectively. It also means inviting different voices around the table. In order to understand the specific challenges faced by individuals in your organisation, you need to talk to them, you need to hear firsthand their experiences, and work with them to address the barriers that they face in their roles. And thirdly, and most importantly, you need to set short, medium and long term goals. Often we can feel overwhelmed by this task. And this is somewhat unnatural, because we are disrupting the status quo. So it's important that we break down our goals and the steps that we need to take to achieve them. And so this then allows us to set achievable targets and for leadership to be kept accountable for their promises.

 I'd also say Simone, that specifically for individuals in senior leadership, and encourage them to undertake reverse mentoring, firstly, because there is so much value in hearing about someone else's life experiences and letting that inform how you do decisions, or how you make decisions, sorry, and how you organise your timetable, how you conduct things in your organisation, I'd also say that unconscious bias training is really, really key, because to understand your own subconscious thoughts, or conscious thoughts, and to allow yourself to shift them, or be aware of them in a way where you can understand how you're making decisions and how that influences or how they impact certain groups, I think is really important.

Simone Roche MBE  7:18  
And the one thing I always love about talking with yourself talking with your mom, and She Leads For Legacy and what you do, it's always about real practical. So you've just stated some, you know, real key things, what's measured gets done, set those short, medium, or long term goals, the real practical things. And as you know, on this podcast, we will have a cheat sheet that goes along with this episode as well, because we want the we want the deeds not words, you know, it's really important, you know, and keep focusing on your age. But you know, what, how does your generation approach diversity and inclusion, as opposed to those you currently see in in senior leadership?

Afiya Amesu  7:57  
I think generally speaking, my generation is very much alive to the issues of inequality that affects different marginalised groups. And unlike some of those in senior leadership, we find them intolerable. When you look at the Sarah Everon, protests, the Black Lives Matter Movement, even the Trans Rights March, young people are taking to the streets to show the rest of society that they're dissatisfied with the status quo, and how it continually suppresses specific groups of people. So I think young people were alive to the issues, we are voicing our dissatisfaction with them. And our hope is that through our efforts, we encourage those in senior leadership to take action, so that these inequalities cease.

Simone Roche MBE  8:43  
And you talked about reverse mentoring. And in the last sort of question that we had, I'm passionate about any form of mentoring book, you know, I love reverse mentoring, and and we did a pilot way back at the start of Northern Power Women. And I remember how this group of amazing young women who were the mentors, and I remember we sat in this room having a briefing session, and it was like, is it just like teaching your dad to use Facebook and be like, well, not quite, but actually, there's that whole sense of, you just got to look at things through a different lens, and you've got to do things, you know, look at things differently. And and I think it's a this is a way that you grow those allies and I know you are massive advocate and you really shout out about the importance of allies and I think the word intentional ally, so you know, how important do why are they so important, how important is allyship for black women and business

Afiya Amesu  9:33  
Allies are absolutely essential. In order for us to achieve equality we can't work in silos, we need to work in collaboration. Everyone must take ownership of the issues that impact different communities so we can bring about change together. And when you look at previous efforts to bring about freedom and equality, whether that be the abolition of slavery, or the civil rights movement or the world wars allies have been is a key part of bringing about that change. And so we need to recognise that we can't work individually. We can't work in our separate communities. But actually real change and real shift can come when we bring ourselves together. And we actively say, we are working towards this targettogether. 

Simone Roche MBE  10:19  
And we do talk about allyship and advocacy an awful lot. And I know I've been on your She Leads For Legacy webinar as well talking about this, you know, and I know one of the questions we had when I joined your webinar was, you know, what, I don't want to get it wrong, you know, and equally, I don't want to swoop in with a cape on and going, I'm here to save you. I'm queen advocate, you know, but how can any men or women, white women listening to this step up without having that sort of worry or fear that they're coming in with a, you know, I'm here to sort of save, save the world kind of energy? You know, how do we do that? Because people are worried about getting it wrong?

Afiya Amesu  10:59  
This is a great question, actually. Because often goodwill can morph into white saviour ism. And that's a bit condescending, and can be patronising. So I think that first and foremost, it's important that we have really candid conversations, we create a safe environment where you come as a white person with a listening ear. And you're just willing to understand the issues that are affecting those in minoritized groups and marginalised communities, when you approach the conversation. And people know that they can speak vulnerably, that's when you really hear about the lived experiences, and you can learn from them. I'd also say that collaboration is key, I think the issue is, or the reason why people get it wrong is they try and solve the solutions on their own without actually consulting the people that the issues affect. And so it's really important that you engage with those communities. So you can create solutions that they want to see, you can create practical solutions and generate ideas based on their needs, and not what you think their needs are. I'd also say it's so important to use your voice at the table, you have the opportunity to speak sometimes on behalf of those if they're not in the room, to speak on behalf of those whose issues aren't being heard. And you can shed light on really important issues of inequality, whether that be gender or racial inequality, for those who might not be able to speak because they simply don't have the opportunity. So you in your role as an ally, can shed light on certain issues and bring practical solutions or even bring awareness where there may not be awareness at the moment.

Simone Roche MBE  12:41  
This is exactly the same advice as you you gave earlier, which is you know, about what can companies do? It's having those conversations, isn't it? It's as opposed to go and write okay, I perceive this as what this the perceived solution is, I'm going to put a plaster on this, or I'm going to create a policy for it without asking people that are involved or, you know, so I think that is absolutely crazy key. And we we've just talked about sort of the voices at the table, but how, as a young black woman, do you feel empowered to speak up? You know, is it hard to be the young person in the room or the only person of colour in the room or the only woman in the room?

Afiya Amesu  13:16  
Yes, definitely. I think every moment when you want to speak up takes courage. And it's important to have self belief and know that you have something valuable to contribute in that room. Like I said, every moment you have to really psych yourself up and especially when you know you're the only person from your your demographic in the room. Sometimes we feel like you're speaking on behalf of your group. But you just have to know that there's value in what you're bringing. And I'm a really strong believer in affirmations and speaking positivity into existence. So often I'll have like a little pep talk to myself before I go into meetings or just remind myself Yes, I have something valuable to contribute to this conversation. But obviously, this is easier said than done. And it happens every single time I do have these conversations, I do go into these meetings. But I would encourage any person of colour know that your lived experiences are so important and they need to be heard and your voice matters.

Simone Roche MBE  14:16  
I love that. I love that bringing positivity into existence. Afiya I could keep chatting to you for hours with your amazing wisdom and fantastic sound bites. As I say we were putting all this onto our cheat sheets. But thank you so much for coming on our podcast today. 

Afiya Amesu  14:36  
Thanks so much. 

Simone Roche MBE  14:38  
Oh, and thanks to all of you for tuning in today. Please do tell your friends about the Northern Power Women podcast. Reach out to us on socials at North Power Women on Twitter and Northern Power Women on all our other socials or drop us a line. We'd like to hear from you podcast@Northernpowerwomen.com. I'm Simone Roche and you've been listening to the Northern Power Women podcast. A What Goes On Media production