Building a Business and Balancing Life with Ruth Hartnoll

We release an episode every single Monday with listeners in over 60 countries worldwide , where you'll hear personal life stories , top-notch industry advice and key leadership insight from amazing role models . As we Are Power is the umbrella brand to Northern Power Women Awards , which celebrates hundreds of female role models and advocates every year .

This is where you can hear stories from all of our awards alumni and stay up to date with everything MPW Awards and we Are Power . Well , today I am joined by the amazing Ruth Hartnett . Hello , visionary B Corp-er . Thanks . Entrepreneur , superhero , multiple roles , matchstick co-founder .

Where did it start ? Yeah , there you go . Thank you , thanks for joining us today . Where did it all start for you ?

And then about six weeks into that journey it just became really apparent I didn't have the language for it then , but it became really apparent that we just weren't a very good match and it's because the culture fit was wrong .

But I didn't know that until I went on the journey of founding a B Corp and finding my now co-founder , greg hello , Greg , who's the one that took us on that journey and was like it doesn't have to be this way , man , it can be fun . I was like can it ?

So he sort of got us into the B Corp movement and he was the one that made us more purpose-driven . Then we figured all that stuff out together over the last five or six years . But yeah , I literally got started because someone asked it wasn't me being like I'm gonna go start a business . I was approached and said I'll do that .

And then six weeks in was like I will do that , but not with you . But how did ?

I think at that six week point I was just like it just isn't right , is it ? And that's okay , like I'll go on to do a thing and you can carry on doing what you're doing , and we just sort of parted ways amicably . It's really common . That isn't what happens .

It's loads of people I know , particularly recently , where they start on that journey and it just doesn't work and that's really tricky . So in that way , I was incredibly fortunate that it just happened to go that way . So thanks . Previous partner and we've already shouted out super Greg but yeah which is his full title that is in fact his official name yeah .

I was like , oh , a pint with Dave . And Dave was like , oh , this is Greg , he's a web developer . I was like , oh , what do you do , greg ? And we sat down and had a chat for 30 minutes and thus history was made . So he started out as a freelancer and sort of co-creator and after about I don't know , and that was like 18 months into the journey .

So it was about a year where I was doing it on my own really . But then , yeah , slowly , like , greg became part of it , became a director , and we're now where we are today . It literally wouldn't look the way it would look without him , and he's also the very definition of an incredible ally and male feminist .

He is , in my opinion , one of the greatest feminists I know . So , yeah , credit to Greg . We do all the b corp stuff and all that and that is so important like advocacy for gender equality is critical .

I think when I so , when I very first and the reason why Greg sort of vaguely knew who I was uh , pre-meeting , when I first started J&R as we were called , I went on a thing about trying to work with female founders . So I was very much like I want to work with other female founder businesses , I want to support you if you're a woman in business .

So I had like the kernel of an idea of being like support a group that is perhaps slightly under supported .

But then Greg sort of expanded that thinking and was like yes , absolutely that problem , but also all these other things that you might not have considered , and I was like , oh , that's really interesting , we can expand that thinking and make it to do with inequality rather than to do with sexism specifically .

And by opening that up it took us on the journey to B Corp and thinking about how to be purpose-led .

We need to recertify this year . It will look very different from when we first did it . I probably , to be totally honest with you , I probably wouldn't recommend it for micro businesses . Our business has changed shape and form over the years . We're now a team of two at the moment with a really excellent network of freelancers .

So for me , I probably wouldn't go through that process now , but at the time we did it , it was absolutely the right thing to do and we will recertify because it's so valuable to us .

First of all , because often what happens is you go up , you hit a massive pitfall . You go up slightly , a bit more , you hit another pitfall , then you go up a little bit more and a bit more , and sometimes you will have a couple of years rising . It's really likely you'll have two or three years where you fall quite a bit .

So I suppose one of the main messages I would say is if that happens , you haven't failed .

And there's so many things working against us at the moment . It is really unstable , uncertain times and there's also a mindset I find , particularly in places like LinkedIn , where it's like just try harder and it's like no , that's inaccurate .

It's so inaccurate to say working harder and using that old capitalist model of thinking will result in you having more turnover , having more profit and you having more staff members . It simply isn't the case anymore and I always have a bit of a rallying cry when I'm in conversations like this to say it's not just you .

There are so many things working against you and lean into that . So I think for me the biggest lesson over the last five or six years has been now that . So I think for me the biggest lesson over the last five or six years it has been now . Uh , it is not always an upward trajectory .

It is often a mix of down and up , and that is valid and good too and I think it's the learning , isn't it ?

So any Matchstick we've hired , if you're listening , you're wonderful and we're deeply honoured to have had you as part of our team . The other big wins finding Greg . It absolutely changed the trajectory of what we were doing . So , yeah , definitely that I think as well .

Going through the B Corp process and then having to embed that framework into everything we did . It's now led to the most recent iteration of the business that we were working on last year and sort of relaunching this year in February with our rebrand . It on last year and are sort of relaunching this year in February with our rebrand .

It's not just about originally we were very much a marketing and comms agency . We're now also doing stuff like business transformation , talking to people about how they make more work for small working spaces . That's because of B Corp and living with that thinking for two or three years . So big wins . Definitely B Corp trying to do more purpose-led stuff .

Just being a bit of a pain in the ass , sat in the room , just being in rooms where no one's talking about the fact that those old structures don't work and those old systems don't serve a lot of people .

So just being that person and being vocal and having the huge opportunity and fortune to do that um , being part of the boards I know we'll come on to talk about some of the positions I've got outside of Matchstick . Those are massive opportunities and massive highs and also , just like all of the work we've produced , I think , one of the things I like .

By nature I'm a copywriter . The trade that I learned was I learned to write and I applied it to a commercial setting . So anytime I got to sit down and write a case study , I get like PTSD because it's all I had to do for other people and I'm like god , I don't want to write another case study , written hundreds of them .

But anytime I do it for us , it's basically like saying look at all the hard work you did . So that's always a nice moment too , to be like shit , we did that . That's cool yeah , high five , high five yeah you talked .

Is it harder or easier , do you think , to build that culture within a micro , as it is within some of those big multinationals ?

I feel like we got the culture pretty right there and there was loads of stuff we made as decisions I was really proud of . However , going and shrinking to a team of just the two of us now , with a group of freelancers loads of the thinking that we embedded and thought about when we were the size of 12 , 5 , 10 people because it fluctuates quite a lot .

It's still present now , even the way that , like if greg's having a bad day , if I'm having a bad day , or if one of us is sick , or if one of us is getting married , like how do we handle that is ? It is part of the culture we embedded four years ago when we had team members .

So I think , as a micro business , if you go through those like levels of fluctuation , whatever you started with the roots of that genuinely loads that like loads of those values , loads of that thinking still transposes when there's just two of you . It also transposes to how you deal with your freelancers . Freelancers are treated terribly .

Um , we try to treat them as fairly as we can , as much as our cash flow will allow it . I'm sorry to every freelancer we've paid late . That's totally the cash flow's fault , um , but yeah , like anytime , we're dealing with people as well .

We just say if I was a freelancer , how would I want to be treated so definitely that If you're dealing with a larger organization , honestly I don't think I've got the experience to talk about that , because the biggest organization I've ever worked for was like 35 people . So I've always been in SMEs .

So the cultures that I've seen in larger organisations , I find that pockets of it do it really well and that's usually a reflection of like a little microcosm of the business and some of the values we've seen .

Really it's down to the people and how much they care about it , but across the organisation , I think much harder to achieve if you're a bigger organisation , for sure .

Now you were appointed when you was the the co-chair , so yeah , the deputy chair of the business and enterprise board for Liverpool city region . Um , it's a bit of a big organization , right ?

Um , I do it with my very brilliant chair , david Mayowitz , as a partner on that . Yeah , just an incredible opportunity that that board position has led me to be in a room full of very interesting , cool people who are working very hard to do good things across our city region . It's got me to the Houses of Parliament to talk about net zero .

Like loads of amazing stuff's come out of that that you can't predict unless you give yourself that opportunity . And like incredibly easy for someone like me , who's only like 35 , to be like why on earth am I deputy chair of the region's business board ?

That's entirely the reason why I am , because they had a very clear mission when they reorganized all those boards to do very differently to what they'd done before , and me and David were that criteria . So we got the jobs . So if anyone is listening or watching and is like I couldn't be the chair of a board or whatever .

Yeah , you can and you're way more qualified than you think you are , particularly if you've kind of got nothing to lose . I find when I'm in that find , when I'm in those board meetings , I'm a bit like well , I'm a deputy chair .

It gives it kind of gives you like immunity , just to be a bit like they won't finish talking , be quiet , like you can be a bit like no , no , stop . So yeah , I think it also empowers you to be slightly more confident version of yourself , which is lovely , and you talked earlier about using your voice in the room .

So , rather than say like why on earth have you made that decision , which is the unfair , cruel thing , particularly if you're someone that's been involved in branding projects , so much conversation has gone on to get to that point that you need to be kind and empathetic to the people who've gone on that journey .

So it's a bit like coming from a place of curiosity when was that insight from ? That's really interesting . And then it opens it up so people don't feel attacked . I think that's quite useful , particularly if you're not feeling massively confident . Just say it like feigning ignorance . You can be like so I don't know this thing .

That'd be really interesting if you could explain that to me . I'm curious to hear what you've got to say Like approach it with enthusiasm and a bit of curiosity and you will never look stupid . And if someone makes you feel stupid , that's with them , so it's not with you . Mental note , right here .

A part of the Lifted , the Lifted .

Again , going back to the point about feeling qualified or underqualified I know nothing about investment , can't stress this enough like it's something that my type of business probably isn't very well suited for . So I sort of approached that board position with a bit of curiosity , again , being like I don't know anything about .

It wouldn't be the great way to learn about it to be on a board with a load of people that do so . I just sort of put myself in the room and was like it would be really interesting to learn about this .

So I did so again , like even if you're applying for a board , you're like I've got no direct experience , that doesn't matter , you can still add something , so just go for it and what ?

We sort of really really felt the impact of COVID two years after it happened for our type of business . So it was everyone's budget shrunk . It was really hard . We had the biggest team we ever had and less income . So there was a lot of difficult stuff going on .

Then , 2024 , I think at the beginning of it , we just sort of both looked at each other and said this is the year we're just gonna have to look after ourselves . And in the entire time of running the business we've never said that . We always said how do we look after the team ? What do we do for them ?

We kind of needed to , partly because we were both very burnt out , but also because we had no other option . The option was look after ourselves or have nothing to look after . So we did basically , and in doing that and allowing ourselves that breathing room , all the stuff in the personal life .

Flourished because it meant when I was finishing work , I was really finishing work when I was thinking about I don't know if anyone's ever planned a wedding . Who's listening to this I saw it as like the ultimate creative live event . Brief . It was just like it was so fun to think about .

I feel like our colleague in the background it absolutely is , and I think as someone that puts events on with fire starters which is the other thing we do outside of matchstick um , it was just really fun to think about Like what a cool thing to think about . How can I entertain all the people I love for a day , like great brief .

So I think for me that made all of that stuff way easier . We also cheated and used the project management tool we have at Matchstick to make planning the wedding easier . Hot tip use Asana for planning a wedding .

Liverpool and it started in a fantastic lovely lunch at Marais , and we convene in big numbers , small numbers , individual numbers , but it's the power of that community and tribe particularly around female founders . I know we all have a million WhatsApp groups , families , business , you know , et cetera , but it is important , isn't it ?

So we did , we did it together , um , and then very organically , it became the female founders group , a part of and welcome other people to . Now it's such a that's such an interesting side entity to me because you can't emulate what that group does organically together and even the way we speak to each other in that WhatsApp group .

Like the last time we met up at Lovelane , a friend of mine , christine , was there and she joined us temporarily , then had to go to go home and she sent me a message afterwards and was like I just can't get over how lovely and kind you all were to each other and how candidly you spoke together and I was like it makes me really sad you don't have that

group , because we should all have that group , so we need to welcome her . But also , yeah , like find your tribe is such an important message . But I personally have found you often find that tribe by making it yourself . I'm very much a if you want it done , do it yourself person , so , yeah , we're very , very lucky to be part of that group of people .

It's such an interesting group of people , isn't it ?

You can do it in the office and then we I'm down in that , their London town , but it's all about female founders in London , so it's all good that's my , that is my get out of jail . But there is that sense and it is that it's that safe place .

And I was like isn't it lovely when someone else says what are we doing ? When are we doing it ? We're doing it here , it here , I've organized it , here's the invite . I often fulfill that role . I do it willingly because I have the capacity to do it . I'm child free by design , so it is much easier for me to give my time to those things .

And it is with someone with caring responsibilities . So I'm a bit like if I want to do it , I'll do it , and if I don't , I just won't . So anytime that I'm putting my time into getting people together , it's because I want to . So glue , glue .

Either you're not in a team at all it's very common to be the only marketer having to do a lot of things or , particularly if you're a copywriter , it's really likely you're the only writer in that company . I see it as a sparring partner .

So if you're trying to come up with , we do a lot of like brand voice work at Matchstick , so we'll do brand identity work and then it's my job to figure out a company's values and personality .

Chatgpt is a really good sparring partner if you haven't got anyone sat opposite you which is often the case because we do most of our work remote now at Matchstick so I think for me I use it as like , if not that this , then that , so you ask it questions and it'll be like this nonsensical thing .

But because it said a nonsensical thing , it pushes your head into a different space which gives you the answer you need . So I see it as like a brainstorming tool rather than a replacement tool . I don't know how other people use it , it's how you coach it , I suppose , and guide and train it .

I find it useful . Yeah , and we've talked about the wedding you know , there may or may not be sort of back to drums at some point down the line . There'll be a vision boarding but you've got the rebrands coming up very , very soon as well exciting . What are you most looking forward to ?

We've done the first iteration , which was J&R , we did the rebrand that became Matchstick , and then we've got this most recent version of us . Because we do so much brand work , we've obviously got really high standards for it and we know the process very intimately .

So I think , for me , I'm incredibly excited with what's possible with us doing that and who it introduces us to , so I'm really looking forward to it . It's also really soon , so it's very front of mind for me . So the rebrand is a huge thing .

I'm really looking forward to that , and it also means we can sort of properly articulate ourselves in a way we haven't done before . So also , even from a copyright point of view , quite a fun thing to think about , to be honest .

Um , so , yeah , definitely that , and also just the , the renewed energy we have after giving ourselves a year to recuperate and hide away and not be massively present , because we spent five years being really visible and doing everything we possibly could . Having a retreating year was actually amazing . It was lovely . Highly recommend hobbiting for a whole year .

Um , and this year we're back back at it , back visible again . So you'll see that from February going on and you've been so honest today .

If you want to start a business , try not to think too practically at the beginning , which sounds like a mad thing to say . You're forced to think that way as soon as you take on other people and you're responsible for their responsibilities .

So at the beginning , if you're considering running a business , my God , just go head and heart first and get on with shit . If I look back at the amount of stuff we achieved in the first two years of Matchstick , it's staggering . I couldn't do it now .

I haven't got the energy for it because all my energy got taken in those first five years of the business . So I think as soon as you've got the energy , get on with it and start doing it and get other people energized by how much you care about it .

So just throw everything at it if you're thinking about it and , equally , stay as small as you can for as long as you can would be quite practical advice I have for right now , in the current climate really do as much as you can with a very small group of trusted people and , as much as you can , try not to give yourself more work than you have to .

So which , simone , you're terrible at . So just as a note for everyone listening , simone always does too much . So , yeah , like definitely give yourself a manageable amount , but just go at it like really really throw yourself into it , because if you're not at that level of energy for your own business , you'll never . You'll never make it .

It's that clear to me , because if I didn't have that energy at the beginning , we just wouldn't be where we are now , at a much calmer stage . But I needed all that energy at the beginning to get to the calm stage .

So it's been such a fun thing to do . So that's been incredible . I think , also just like having the opportunity like over the summer , for example , it becomes incredibly quiet at agencies so we just said why don't we just do a four-day week for the summer ? That was a really smart move .

So we worked really quite hard for those four days but we had so much breathing room and we also didn't have to take that much holiday , which meant we could still be available to people . So really building in like routines around rest and then having a big thing to look forward to that that was the stuff that was really enjoyable last year .

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