Welcome back to the war against weeds Podcast. I'm Joe Ikley, extension Weed Scientist at North Dakota State University. My co-host today is Alyssa Essman. Alyssa, how are things in Ohio?
Things are going well. We just planted our first soybean trials. We're looking forward to field season, and it's really looking forward to this episode, I have to say it's one of the more fun and interesting topics we've had, I think, on the podcast.
yeah. So I'm also excited for this one. It's, it's tax day, and we're recording. So we figured we'd have some government officials on, I guess things just kind of lined up that way. But we're going to go around the horn introduce we have three guests today for what's going to be a very exciting topic for certainly, anyone who loves dogs, that's how I'll tease this up. So first, we're going to start with
Josh Wagner. Josh, why don't you tell the people who you are, what you do, and why we're here today?
I'm Josh Wagner. I'm the Montana Department of Agriculture's noxious weed early detection Rapid Response Coordinator. I work on collaborative projects across the state and surrounding states and provinces on the highest priority new invaders. And I heard your podcast a while back that mentioned the fantasy of having dogs looking for weeds and riding in the truck with you, and I reached out because I knew you, because I'm a big weed nerd, and said, Hey, we do that.
And that was the witchweed episode from the fall. So we've been working on pulling guests together for this one for for a while. Now, with that, we'll go to the next guest, Amber Burch,
good morning. Amber Burch, I am officially the weed coordinator for Beaverhead County. Beaverhead county is in the southwest corner of Montana, right along the Montana Idaho border. We actually have a little town called monida. Monida is Montana and Idaho combined. Sorry about that. So I'm also the Project Coordinator for the Montana dyers woad cooperative project, which was started back in the early 80s.
The cooperative project is focused on managing dyers woad in the state of Montana with the intent of hopefully eradicating or seriously reducing, which we have definitely accomplished, the number of plants in the state keeping it from spreading dyers woad is a top priority weed in in the state, and we have a great team that's that's working in managing that specific plant In the in the state.
Perfect. And then the last guest Ngaio Richards.
hi. I'm a canine handler and field biologist for working dogs for conservation, which is a Montana based non profit. And this year marks our 25th year anniversary, which is great. I've been with working dogs for conservation Since 2011 and I'm the lead on our end of the dyers woad work. My current title is forensics and field specialists, but I was hired on as the first canine field specialist for the organization, which was essentially an apprenticeship. And we partner
with dogs to find pressing conservation targets. So that includes, of course, noxious weeds like dyers woad. But the targets we seek with the dogs range from animal scat or poop occupied burrows and dens to animals themselves, just to name the few. And the targets that we see can be native, non native, and sometimes both.
We'll get into more detail on that later, because Dr Essman looks like she's ready for all sorts of dog questions. But before we get there, so we've mentioned Dyer's woad, just wanted to maybe take a little bit of step back and just focus on noxious weeds in Montana, and so maybe more pointed towards Josh and Amber on this one. But which ones you know? Which are the ones that keep you up at night? Big State, lot of weeds, I'm sure. So what are your most problematic ones?
You say, keep you up at night? That's exactly how I feel about it. I really am a big weed nerd. I think about it at work, and I think about it at home, and I think the one that concerns me most in Montana is rush skeleton weed. There's 4 million acres of it in Idaho. There's about 4000 acres of it in Montana, and we work hard to keep it that way. It's really it causes about $60 million a year of direct losses and grain crops in Washington. So we don't want to get that into our golden
triangle. Invasive Phragmites is one that looks like it's going to be big on my radar this coming season. We only had a couple populations of that up until 2023. And now we're starting to see more of that. And we have 36 weeds on our list, and I focus on about 20 of them, not necessarily all of them are on our list, but not as a invasive annual grass. That's a big concern. Medusa head, yeah, there's a lot. I could talk about it for a long time, but let somebody else go.
Amber, similar picture in your in the southwest corner,
yeah, I totally agree with Josh, especially on Rush skeleton weed. Rush skeleton weed, there's a ton of it in Idaho, being a border County, we only have a couple of sites in the in our county that are, you know, four or five years ago was the last time we found any plants. And so we see ourselves as kind of the first line of defense from from getting it into Montana, at least in the southwest corner, Northwest corners, definitely a different story for rush
skeleton weed in the state. But yeah, we're, trying to be that first line of defense to keep it from spreading further. Fortunately, we have the Continental Divide, so it's, it's super, super high, mountainous range that hopefully it won't come over as fast as it does in some other parts of the state. Also ventenata is huge. So that invasive annual grass, we think of cheatgrass as being bad. I call ventenata, the red headed step sister of cheatgrass, because it, it's,
yeah, it's bad stuff. So definitely those, those high priority weeds, are those, and then the day to day, we have a lot of hounds, tongue, Canada thistle, obviously, is is everywhere, especially anywhere wet. Spotted Knapweed is pretty widespread in the state. And then leafy spurge, those are
probably the big ones that are more widespread. So when you think of early detection, rapid response and those high priorities we're we're looking at Rush skeleton weed, dyers woad, blueweed is another one that is just really important to keep from spreading.
The farmers and ranchers here call leafy spurge that that North Dakota weed. It's one of our most common ones. And I guess another one we always thought was going to come from North Dakota, that we're kind of the last state standing in the lower 48 is palmar amaranth or waterhemp. It just hasn't established here yet, and it's blown up everywhere. And that's another reason why I'm familiar with Joe's work and admire what he does.
least tell you where we, uh, you've got us on pins and needles about Ventennata. So we're, we're happy to explore, not happy to exchange weeds. What we do anyways, I guess. But both of you had mentioned early detection, rapid response. And so, you know, Montana, just being a large state, I wanted to kind of transition to some of the monitoring challenges they
have for these noxious weeds. And maybe we'll kind of stick with Amber on the the regional level before looking at Josh's view on the state level?
Yeah, well, I have a little bit of the state level, specifically for the woad project. That's probably where I have the most experience. But beaverhead county is also the largest county in the state. I think it's like 5700 square miles. I think that's right, it's huge. And so limited crews, limited time, are the biggest issues with monitoring and getting out. We're also, I think, 62% public land in Beaverhead County, so there's just, there's a lot of ground to
cover. So that's probably the biggest challenge with any kind of monitoring. As far as the dyers woad project, we have an incredible task force. So it's a group of people from all of the counties involved. It is a statewide project, and so all of the counties are involved. The Agency, folks that are a part of the those areas are also actively involved. They help by going out and looking at those areas. I go out and look at areas. Josh goes out, and we all just work together as a team to
make sure that we're covering all of that. And then we have data for the dyers woad project clear back to 1999 at all those sites, we actually count individual plants. We have those records, and even broke down into growth stage, rosette, seeding or flowering. So that when we can also kind of track, I guess, different stages, we're seeing better management in different stages and when to target. Ngaio has some good thoughts on that as well.
I'll just say, with my job, it's all about and I guess all of our jobs relationships. I get out and speak a couple times a month across the state. I know people everywhere. I. Think everyone in Montana knows people everywhere. You can't get away with anything in Montana. You can't be a bad person, because your reputation would spread. But it's really just making partnerships and eyes on the ground. And
that's where I wanted to go to next. So we mentioned or alluded to the dyers woad project. And I want to know what the you know, what point did this relationship with the working dogs for conservation begin? And then we'll kind of turn over to everything great that that organization does.
So to start, the very first time we had dogs on dyers woad was back in 2007 was my first year as the project lead, and we had, is it? Alice white law, which is a co founder of working dogs for conservation, was working with Kim Goodwin from MSU. We had him down in the snow line site, which is almost on the Continental Divide in Beaverhead
County, found that super effective tool. Couple years later, we really started utilizing the dogs in multiple sites, and we really can tell a pretty cool story of when the dog started working in areas and huge reductions in the number of plants that we find. So it's been, it's been a long time since, since 2007 I don't know how I can't do that math in my head quite that fast, but yeah, it's, it's been a very cool partnership that has seen amazing results in our efforts
maybe be good, just to kind of go through that, and I'll maybe just Amber, and Ngaio just have you guys have a dialog, and Alyssa and I can sit back for a while.
This story that we often use, just because it's so kind of black and white, is on Mount Sentinel, which is one of our sites. So that's the other thing that's really fun and challenging. And a good way about this work is that we have sites that are hundreds of miles apart, you know, to the north, around the Kalispell or whitefish area, we've got a site and each site, and then we've got the most southerly ones,
just on the pretty much on the border with Idaho. And in the middle we have mount Sentinel, which is, you know, beloved recreational spot in Missoula. It's about 200 acres across the face, and it's been divided up in different zones over the years. And initially, you know, we did the pilot. We're comparing just a human, only observer, and then the dog
teams. And what we found was that the dogs, the dogs and the handlers, you know, supported by the handlers, were able to find plants from further away and more quickly, before they reached the dreaded reproductive stage, you know, before they went became went into flowering and seeding, and just in terms of the numbers in the first year, so you know, looking at about five or 600 plants, a lot of them large leafy rosettes, a
lot of them In that flowering or seeding stage. And over time, we've, you know, we've reduced the area to known hotspot zones where we're finding, sometimes maybe three or four plants, like tiny, tiny rosettes. And that's just because we are perched at those seed banks. We've got those all mapped out. We're just waiting for those little shoots to come out, and then we we pull
them. Another thing that was really neat that we we talk about just in terms of the the way that the dogs, the finds we make with the dogs, can help weed management efforts, is that there, there was one particular team where the dog kept alerting, and the handler wasn't seeing anything, but she was, you know, of course, the dog was very insistent, and she she marked those areas, and then when they returned a few weeks
later, they found these tiny, tiny rosettes. So the dog was actually alerting to the presence of the remnant roots. And as a result of that, that meant more targeted herbicide applications, as opposed to just hand pulling. So there's an awful lot to be learned from the partnership with the dogs. But I just, I just have to say what Amber and Josh have been saying. Just reiterate, because I was at a gathering with a dog a few weeks ago, a gathering for the Montana Conservation Corps crew
to launch the season. And you know, they're just asking a bit about the work we do, and they kept touching on love of the land and sense of community. And I have to say, you. For me, personally, what runs through. I mean, of course, the dogs front and center for us, but also just love of the land and that sense of community, because we do a lot of international work, but there is nothing more meaningful to me than doing the work right in your own I mean, literally for me, it's right in my own
backyard. You know, I can see Mount Sentinel as we're talking.
And when Ngaio is talking small rosettes, we're talking like pinky finger size rosettes that we as human with a visual, we would never see it until it's five times bigger. But these dogs are keying in and telling us when they're they're teeny tiny. So when you're talking eradication and trying to relative eradication within that site, you have to get every single plant and the dogs allow us to be able to to do that really.
So in terms of detection, is it primarily site, or is it scent, or is it all of the above that the dogs use to detect these weeds?
It's primarily scent, but there can be a bit of a there can be a bit of a visual for the dogs, but I'm glad Amber, you mentioned that point about the tiny, Pinky sized rosettes and and also the question in terms of the visual, because Amber and I were walking along on survey with this very fastidious Border Collie named Seamus, and noticed he wasn't with us, and turned around and he was sitting very intently at this funky looking plant. And you know, we were both like,
what, what? And he just was adamant, why are you doing good people? And so we, you know, we pulled it and sent it off Amber sent it off for DNA confirmation. And sure enough, it was woad. But again, just in terms of we are such visual creatures. And, of course, we are supporting the dog in their scent detection. But we also, you know, we have eyes and and we know what these plants look like, but that's been a really that was an unexpected benefit of working with the dogs, is
that all of a sudden we started to build in. We realized that, like, you know, based on, like I said before, the each different site has its own kind of micro climate. Each each site where we work is very different, which can, you know, require different dogs, sometimes different size dogs. And along with those
differences, come differences in what the plant looks like. And I mean, these, these, we we have, you know, because we're nerdy about these things, we have put together sort of indices that show, like, here's what Dyer's woad looks like up Mount Sentinel. This is textbook dyer's woad, but only at Mount Sentinel, because over here, because there's, you know, different drainage, whatever you can get these crinkly, waxy
looking leaves. So even sometimes, when the plants are large, you know, not Pinky size, you wouldn't even know that that's what you were looking at. But thanks to the dogs. Now, now we do now I look for those types of things as well.
We kind of do the same thing at in at the sweetgrass county site, because it's so, so different. We'll get into an area and it's like, you know, we're not 100% sure visually, is that? Is that woad? And so we'll actually, we'll bring the dog over into that area and have him just check and make sure that yes or no, kind of give us that confirmation.
Now I do have to hear the description of what a day working with these dogs in the field look like. Just pull up on a on a four by four and just go to town, just walk through, walk us through a day of a field. Visit.
I have some Well, first of all, I have to say it's it. I think it's the best job in the world, but it's also nowhere near as glamorous as as a lot of people think it is. I mean, I just I think Amber has probably seen me wearing the exact same pants and jacket every autumn that at that sweet grass site. But I have a particularly fun memory of going in with the yellow lab, the classic yellow lab in this wishful story you guys were talking about before, named
Tobias, and it was muddy, and we had just a great time. Three hours in the field. You know, we were coming back, and we looked over, and he had his head over this side, and when he turned back to us, half of his face was just complete mud, and he was his tongue was loaded out. He was just so happy. He was having a good time. It was like the best reward for all his hard
work. You know, in terms of a typical day, it's a. But in the summer months, when it's hot, so there's, there's managing temperature for the dogs, welfare and comfort and but there's also managing for the best olfactory conditions, like, when is the scenting going to be the best for the for the dogs? And so in the in the summer months, we can be up at between
four and five. And then, depending on where we're going, like on Mount Sentinel, it can take us about 45 minutes to an hour just at some of those more elevated start points, just to get to that start survey location. Then we'll be out there for a few hours. And the thing about working with the dogs is you have to be really present. It's like time kind of
stands still. You get them into their work vest. You know, you may fiddle with all your pack and everything, and then when you say, Okay, let's find it, it's like it switches on something in your own brain. So you know, you're out there, and either you're feeling like you're getting very good coverage, even if you're not making lots of finds or any
finds. And that's the same the scenario increasingly on Mount Sentinel and in some other places, is we're finding less so then you want to make sure you're getting good coverage, and then by the end of it, you know, you we get back down to our start point, and we're just making sure we're doing body checks or making sure that for the safety of the dog, you know, they don't some of those cheatgrass and others, you know, they're designed to embed into the fur of whatever creature, so
we don't that can be really hazardous for the dogs. So, you know, we're checking paws, we're checking the coat. But we also don't want to be vectors. So like, you know, I'm looking at my boots and all that kind of thing. And then it's a matter of getting back and, you know, crunching numbers on a spreadsheet and getting the dog settled in, making sure the dogs
resting and hydrated and all that. So some, some days can be pretty, pretty short, like, really, really start maybe five hours, and other days can be 12 hours of just going, but it's all around making sure that the survey was well executed, like you felt like, we went into this area and we really, we really covered it, well, cleared it, and also just making sure that the dog is in a great state of mind from start to finish.
In terms of management, you've mentioned a couple things. You've mentioned pulling and herbicide applications, and I just, I'm curious, kind of what, what is your management strategy? Is that something the handlers are responsible for, or does someone come back later? Or what's that look like?
So as a project, Dyer's woad has an accelerated growth rate, so it can grow up to four inches in a week. So we try to get to sites as often as we can through the growing season. Anything that is beyond a rosette stage, we pull if it's in a rosette a lot of times, we'll leave it, and then we'll treat with herbicide. If we have the dogs in the area, obviously we don't treat we don't want to treat where the dogs are going
to be, and so we'll let them clear an area. And then if we need to do a herbicide application, we do it once they've exited the site, but typically a combination of hand pulling and then follow up herbicide treatments. And we do anything that we pull, we remove from the site as well, because the plant could have enough energy to go ahead finish out set seed, and we just don't. This is eradication project, and so we're really wanting to not leave any chance of plants going and finishing out.
I would add, sometimes we talk about what's optimal use of detection dogs for different applications, and in an ideal world, an optimal application might be diminishing density, you know, because it it can be overwhelming for a dog in an area where there's just a huge amount of growth, you know, because you can see them like it's everywhere. But the thing that's really great about being part of this project is that
this is also an all hands on deck situation, you know. So if I'm in the Lima snow line area, I try to settle in there for a week with the dog, you know, and let Amber know where we're going. And in case, you know, somebody catches wind, maybe an infestation, or something, you know, to be able to just go there and look. And then sometimes also, I'll do some pulling, and then we might want to go back again in a few days and just see what else might be there. Just to be as thorough as possible,
focus, I guess maybe a little bit more on on the dogs themselves. Now, because I heard you mention a Border Collie, and now you the lab, so I. And also mentioned some sites require dogs of different sizes. So I'm just, you know, is it basically any dog that that you can train, or there's certain breeds that are better suited for this type of work?
Well, I'm happy to tell you, I mean, so on this project, we have had, you know, German Shepherds, yes, Border Collies labs. At the moment, we have, if you want to run the gamut, we have a pit bull and a Golden Retriever, among among
others. It's not, it's not any dog. These are, these are dogs that show certain characteristics, for certain willingness, for detection, work, drive, associated with searching, finding, identifying targets, and they so there are some characteristics that we look for, but it's not really breed specific, it's really, does this individual dog show
these traits? And then we'll we do some vetting. A lot of our dogs come from shelters, which is really important, because a lot of times these dogs are, I mean, they're not, they're they are wonderful, but they are not great pets. You know, they're bossy, they're in your face. And, I mean, not just boss seen in your face. I mean, it's hard. You just would have to experience how obnoxious it can be. Just, well, let up. And so,
I mean, I think that's marvelous. But you know, if ever I have friends over, who, my God, this dog is alive, and realize, oh, it's not. It's really not that these kinds of dogs are not for everybody. So, yes, we we select them very carefully, and then there's a whole screening preliminary
stage. And if they, you know, and they progress further and further, and sometimes they don't want the job, or they don't have as much drive, or different things, at which point we will make sure to re home them, find them the best, most appreciative home. Otherwise, yes, it's a lot of a lot of different breeds, a lot of mixed breeds. It's really the characteristics, and then also that comes into play, like, what
kind of target would this dog be well suited to find. And so for some of the sites, like our site up by whitefish, there's a really slender strip right by a guardrail where our partner up there calls it ground zero. It's where there's just there has been a lot of growth in the past. And so for that, you know, a lot of these dogs are very boisterous, and so the last thing you want is, like a, you know, a large body, wiggly dog.
And so the pit bull, she's got dwarfism, so she's especially petite, and she's a really fantastic candidate for that site. And we have, we have another, I think he's got some Border Collie in him, and he also is very, very good at that site.
So I am curious about the training, how, what, what does the training? Training Program is, what I would call it, I guess, for for these dogs look like as they become specialized in detecting. In this case, we can start with wood, but I do want to go into all the other things that that they are utilized for.
When they're introduced to a target, it's in a controlled setting, just to remove, you know, make it simple, straightforward, and it's just associating the scent and the recognition of that scent with getting a reward. And so just to go back a bit to characteristics, you know there are, there are some dogs who, you know, love to find things and love to search, but aren't necessarily very inclined to
tell you about that or to interact with someone. And so as you progress from the training stage, where the dog is like, Oh, yes, okay, if I this scent, gets me a toy or gets me treats. And then moving into a real world scenario, as we often call it, then you also want a dog as you're you know, you go into a field, and the dog not only is going to find it, but is also going to sit or tell you in some other way. Here it is, and want
to interact with the handler for that reward. So, so in the simplest possible terms, it's just here is the scent that we are concerned about when you recognize it that is associated with a reward. And that is the thing too about these dogs and maybe makes them, you know, less gray pets, is that they are really that's what they want all the time, is just give me that reward, reward, reward, reward.
And so how many would say an individual dog that that gets utilized, and how many different weed species? Or other things, will that one dog be able to focus in on? Is it like a a daily thing you here's, here's the scent we're looking for today, and we can go that way? Or is it just, is it more limited than that?
Well, um, the first, I guess part of the answer to that question is that these dogs have the capacity to acquire huge number of scents in their portfolio, if you want to call it that, we have had dogs on 10,20, 30 different scents. But there's a bit of a strategy to it, in that we want the targets to be complimentary or not interfere with some work,
you know. So if you have a dog who's who is assigned or starts to be doing a certain kind of work, you want to make sure that any subsequent targets are not going to interfere in some, in some way, there's, there's ways of working around that, but ideally, and it's not they don't need, you know, like a daily
reminder necessarily there they can be very contextual. And so, for example, a lot of after a time of returning to different places, you can see that the dog is like, oh, yeah, this is, you know, because, because they're also factoring in the smell, the smell of the place. So that's the other thing about you know, when you're in a controlled setting and you're just presenting the target in kind of a vacuum, and then as you're moving towards how it presents in the real world, you know, the
dog is also building in the rest of the scent picture. So I'm not sure if that answers your your question,
yes. Makes perfect sense to me.
Explain your example of the stamp in football field.
oh yeah, that's yes.
yes, good. It's a good like visual of of what the dogs can do.
Yeah? So if you exam right, if you think about how many olfactory receptors we have in our own noses, and you compare that to the olfactory receptors that the dog nose has, so for us, it would fit onto a postage stamp, and for the dog, It would fit onto a football field, they are much better sniffers, and we are Amber's question actually did just remind me, like, in terms of the number of, you know, plant targets, for example, we have dogs who are on multiple plants.
And you know, some of that is to do with, like, are they persnickety detail searchers, or do they, you know, prefer? Are they more ranging kinds of dogs? So, you know, in theoretically, dogs are able to just learn and recognize a tremendous number of
scents. But in, in practice, you know, it's a bit of a chessboard, like, what's what's going to work best, and and what might you encounter, you know, because if you're working a river bank for a plant, and then it turns out there's also moose and otter, you know, scat, to find that that need not be a problem, but it's just, just to manage it The most efficiently for the dog and the handler.
So, speaking of the different plant species, and we kind of have been focused on, on the Dyer's Woad project, but any other noxious weeds that they're they're being deployed for, or have you've thought about, you know, possibilities.
Salt cedar, pepperweed, um, trying to think, there's been some preliminary work on wild sugar cane. We did some preliminary work on Rush skeleton weed. There was some early work on what is it called? It's, it's yellow star thistle, which was an interesting one. So, yes, lots lots of plant work. And there was a really neat bit of work in a wildlife preserve that was looking at Chinese bush clover lespedeza. And over time, the bush clover was decreasing after the dog
surveys. But there was a year where they were the teams were also looking for milkweed. Whorled milkweed I think it was so that's an example of looking for both, you know, a non native and a native species. And that was really illuminating, because what they found was that there was a lot more milkweed than they thought, which was great news for habitat, and there was a lot less Bush Clover than they thought.
At the same time, I think whorled milkweed was one. Joshua shared a video with me of on these dogs at work, and it was basically a whorled milkweed. Of course, it. The audio mechanism. But you know about a about one inch in height. Maybe you're smaller than that to monks, maybe waist high to chest high vegetation. That was the impressive level of
detail that dog was finding them. WeaWe have a lot of Rush skeleton weed partners that are dying to get rush skeleton weed dogs on it, because as a rosette, it looks exactly like dandelion. There's no way you can tell until it bolts, and then it has stiff hairs on the stem, and it's got just very little leaf material as it gets older. So it's really hard to get herbicide into it, and it has an extensive root system. So if we can get dogs catching it in the rosette stage in May,
that's what everybody wants. So actually, right now, it's in the works. So we're excited about that. A lot of people are excited about that.
How much area can maybe a handler and a dog cover in a day or in a week, or kind of, what's the what's the range in area?
That is an excellent question, and it really depends on the target and also on the density in in the area. So some I know we want to focus on plants, but like, if you're looking for something like Bear scat, for example, you can cover like 15 kilometers a day, and that's partly because of, you know, the density that you tend to find bear scat in, in the way that the dog can be casting a little more broadly.
But for plant like dyers woad, where you want to make sure that you are finding every single, little, tiny bit of it, then you know you might be able to cover on, trying to think it would be, I would say it would be a much, much smaller area, so like on the order of five or 10 kilometers over a week and maybe potentially three hours of surveys every day. You know if it's in, if it's in the early stages of if it's moderately dense, and you're just trying to to make sure you're getting that
coverage. So that's the balance, I guess I would say to answer your question, is it's a balance between feeling like you've gotten good coverage and just this how much scent that target is putting out.
And as we're on the topic or subject of scale, I know we, we had discussed earlier some of the individual success sites, but Amber, I don't think we hit on if you have kind of some full metrics for this dyers woad program of how you know how successful it has been over the years.
Yeah, I actually do so when we look at 2018 because we have that data back. Let me back up. So back in the early 80s, when the project first started, the snow line site in particular, they estimated at at least 100,000 plants. I have pictures of it was solid yellow in some areas at that snow allow snow line site in 2024, we had 78 plants that spread across about a 15 mile stretch, and probably half a mile wide, maybe, if you were to encompass kind of the whole whole area. So
it's a it's a pretty large area. There's definitely those hot pockets that Ngaio was was talking about, that we really target. But that's a significant decrease statewide, when we look at the actual the the number of plants that we've counted over the years, we consider 2019 to be our highest population. We had a new site that was added that year, we had a little over 8700 plants found statewide. And last year. So '24 there were 140
plants statewide, half of those being at at snow line. So that's like a 98% 98 and a half percent decrease in numbers statewide. We've gone from, I think 21 counties that have had infestations down to 11 counties that we actively look at, but only five that have had plants in the last several years. So it's, it's pretty cool,
yeah, 100,000 in the 80s of one site. So I know the 78 Yeah, the 78 Yeah, yeah, for sure. I wish I could have the audible of success in row crops.
That's what I figured. Joe's his mind's working right now about these dogs running up and down the through the sugar beets and,
oh, I imagine a water hemp site. Um, the dog would just lay down and give up.
So how many flowering amber in 2024
Um, oh, shoot, I would have to, like,
two, right?
No, there was a little bit more, because we had Warren Bieber head, so we had 26 um, at the snow line. There were no flowering in Missoula, none in park. Six in sweet grass. Somebody can do the math. And then one in silver bow. So 26, and seven, whatever that is. So 3030, right? 33 flowering plants. We did have a couple, unfortunately, that did go to seed, which is that's like worst case scenario. Thankfully, a lot
of the seeds were still on the plant. And so actually, in the the Flathead site years ago, when it was a new area, I've even done like the whole like sneak up on them, tactic where you've got a trash bag and you're sneaking up, and you throw the trash bag over and loop it around, and then you scoop up some of the soil that you can see the seeds laying on? Yes, we take it pretty serious.
I meant to ask seeding. There's two seeding last year, right?
Two seeding? Yeah, yeah,
so, and that is one thing, you know, it's not entirely linear. Like we're seeing more protracted growing seasons were also, you know, like I remember from, you know, it's been, at least, it's been more than 10 years on this project. And I remember starting more in June, and now we start in, we start looking in April sometimes. And initially we were stopping in in early autumn. And now, actually, thanks to a snowy find by one of the dogs, try to extend a little bit further into
this season. But you know, like last year, the weather was just wonky. Is that's a technical term, I guess, for it, like we we went in and then we came back, and there were these little plants that appeared to, like, bolted and just seeded, like they were, you know, semi flowering, semi seeding. And it was, it was horrifying,
very upset, accelerated growth rate like it. It has a mind of its own, yeah,
you know, so that it would be lovely to be able to say, like, all right, when we I mean, they're there, the big picture is, like, yes, the amidst this incredible collaboration, the dogs definitely help significantly. That's the That's the bottom line. But then there's factors beyond our control, like when the weather does this stuff that is just so conducive to rapid flowering and seating, and then, you know, like, if we can't get into a site, for example,
sometimes there's a concern about just wildfires. And then you know that we feel that's another thing to keep you up at night, is like, what are they doing up there? Because we, we were supposed to go in two weeks ago, and we, we just can't, um, and then the last thing I would say, like, for Mount Sentinel, it's been really interesting. If you just look at the numbers
year by year. You know, some years you might get four, and then one year you might get 28 but contextually, we've also Amber, and I've talked a lot about, okay, so those four were at four different sites, different spots within the hot spot on Mount Sentinel, that 28 find that was all from the same seed bank, and that was all just those seedlings coming in. So, you know, with weeds, well, eradication and those numbers you're also looking at, okay, but what did those numbers break
down to? Because if you're just looking at, you know, four sounds much better than 28 but both, I would argue both, are very, very good outcomes, just different in a different way, good
and good and bad too. Because of our population size at sites, the dogs actually have to go into Idaho to do some refresher exposure. I don't know now if you want to, if you want to touch on that, you do know more on that end,
oh yeah. I mean, it's, it's a great problem to have, but as you're bringing on new a new generation of woaddogs, and this is this is an issue for for different targets, and we say it's a good problem to have, but or if you're giving refresher training to to the veteran dogs you need when you. Successful in your own area, at eradication, you need to go further and further to give those meaningful training opportunities.
Well, I knew this would be an exciting one, because I just looked at the clock. See we should. We should probably try to wrap this thing up so everyone gets out of here on time. I do thank all of you comment. As Josh said at the beginning, this is and we say this all the time, row crops. It's all about partnerships, and this sounds like a very successful one. And I know we all have administrators, and they love metrics and good metrics behind it too. And just
just a really neat collaboration. Did want to make sure every one of you had a chance to any final thoughts on this topic, whether it's woad or the relationships or anything, and then any other resources you wanted folks to find. Maybe we'll start with Josh on this one.
Well, if you just Google or use your favorite search engine, I pick Google, M, T, E, D, R, R, you could find my website, and there's all kinds of resources on our high priority weeds there, including webinars, and in about what five, six weeks, I'm gonna have Joe on my spring webinar talking about Palmer Amaranth. So yeah, we have a lot of Montana resources there, and I love getting out working on weed, so
I'm always willing to travel. I put on 10s of 1000s of miles in the summer, and I go to Alberta, and I go to North Dakota, and I go to Idaho, and I go to Wyoming. So if anyone has questions or wants to work together, I'm always up for it.
Perfect. How about you? Amber,
yeah. So again, the partnerships is huge. So thankful for working dogs, for conservation, all of the members of the task, for force, we wouldn't be able to accomplish the goals and have the project that we have without each and every one of them and the support from the Montana Department of Agriculture, we do receive funding from the noxious wheat Trust Fund, which is huge. It really allows us the ability
to do what we do. But then the other thing that I would say too about the dogs is they are an incredible public relations tool, and starting the conversation with landowners, agencies and just just everybody, because who doesn't love our furry friends?
And then Ngaio,
yes. So if anybody's interested in learning more about the work the broader work card that we also have a page on the Darius World project. We're at W, D for c.org and we have a Facebook page and Instagram. And, yeah, I guess I would just say, I pinch myself every every day that I that I get to work with these dogs. It's, it's, it's hard work. It's good, hard work. And I agree with Amber, the dogs are just
phenomenal ambassadors. I'm not a big a big talker, but it's really lovely to the way that the dogs facilitate those
interactions and that engagement. But I have to also just say thank you to to the task force and to Amber and Josh, and just just for all our partners, for the for the work, because without the work, there is no there is no working dogs for conservation and and I don't just mean the work itself, but also just that we get to give these dogs a purpose that they're pretty uniquely qualified for and that they're, you know, that that it lends itself well to their nature,
whereas they might otherwise be, you know, languishing in a in a Shelter. But, yeah, thank you very much. Just to all our great partners, because it's it's an amazing network to be part of, for sure,
audience participation, just throw in your slide deck one picture of working dogs and people love it. It'll always start the conversation. And thanks for having us on, because I love this podcast.
Yeah, again. Thank you all three for coming on. Definitely hear the passion you all have for this project and working with the dogs, and it's probably the perfect note to end this season on. So for the listeners, we will be back in the fall. This is the last episode of this spring season. So thank you, as always, to the listeners, and we'll catch you on the next season of the war against weeds. As always we thank you for listening to the war against
weeds podcast. Just another reminder, you can find our podcast hosted on the Crop Protection Network. Or CPN for short. So this is another great resource that's driven by extension, scientists at different universities for pest management. And with that, we will see you next week on the war against weeds. Podcast Bye.