No.3 Guilty Of Treeson

Jake Rogers welcome welcome with JK Boot's Podcast nice to have you finally yes yeah thanks is is so uh Have You released any episodes yeah actually not yet we're still just we're still Gathering a good collection before we can release him because we want to go for a long time and nice be consistent about it and you know have a really good guess but you are one of those guests that I was like okay we need to have uh James Rogers yeah but anyways Whats The Main Focus? um what we were just talking about so yeah I mean you know sappy supplies tree work all that stuff what's like your what's the main focus right now are you doing a little bit of everything or is it tree work is it sappy supplies what's yeah I'm kind of doing three things because I I mean my favorite is just cutting the the trees themselves doing the natural work yeah and you know probably a rational person would you just start a normal Tree Service you know that those can be really lucrative but I've kind of I started sappy supplies because I just noticed um with it seems like everybody I know that runs a tree service they don't actually do any cutting that gets to a point where they have to start doing so much sales and managerial stuff that they they kind of you know they're they're not in the every one of them says the same thing like oh I'd like to be on the field more but you know they're dealing with broke down chippers and people not showing up and stuff so but I I'm a contract climber so I'll just you know either do like no cleanup jobs for homeowners or contractors or all you know subcontract for a tree service when they need an extra hand so I actually got a job today from there's a tree service in Spokane that calls you up yeah well they wanted me to do this tree I mean I wouldn't usually drive it's like five hours from my house but also I don't know if I if I do the podcast and that's for you the same day then it's it's worth it yeah so I like doing that and then I uh you know I just I enjoy filming the process as well it's kind of like you know may as well it's not really that much more work just to film what I'm doing yeah do you The Tree Work Business think if uh if a guy like with no YouTube no steps button if if you're just doing tree work like can you do well with just doing tree work one guy alone you know on Craigslist or something like you know I don't know like how is that is that yeah you can yeah you can make really good money doing tree work it's it's harder if you you know it's just like with anything it's harder if you are you know working for somebody if you start your own gig then you know it's a lot more lucrative but then it's also sometimes it kind of washes out though because for instance like if you're a contract climber you know you can charge more money than if you're climber full-time at a company but then you might go a week or two without any work you know if you're if you're by yourself yeah if you're by yourself especially when the you know when the economy takes a hit it's like you know people are looking for work that the demand drops especially for something like homeowners are not prioritizing well that too but like tree services you know they've already got climbers and you know the contract climbers take the hit first you know yeah obviously yeah for the regular ones but you you can make good money doing tree work um especially you know if you if you build a a good company it's actually kind of amazing you see some of these guys that start tree services and it seems to usually work out it seems like from what I've seen more often than not somebody goes and starts their own tree service and they seem to always yeah they seem to always make it if they you know some things set you back like if you don't know how to do the work yourself and you're relying a lot on you know hiring subcontractors and stuff that's a really that's a really tough thing for a lot of people there are a lot of guys they'll uh I've seen it a few times where you know people will have money and they hear that you can make good money doing tree work so they buy a chip truck and chipper and they kind of get into it that way as an investment but they don't know how to climb or cut or any of that stuff and they really struggle um you know Finding climbers I think that the hardest thing about owning a tree service probably it's probably the the climbers honestly because it's kind of a niche you know vocation and someone who can actually climb and is good at it and knows how to do it and like all that yeah someone who who can do that who doesn't you know who like has a driver's license and you're gonna you know talk to the customers and stuff I mean there are a lot of guys that can they're really good climbers but they're uh kind of rough around the edges you might not want them running the crew you know wow or they'll be really good at removals but they're not that good at um you know they're not that good at pruning you gotta have a driver's license yeah yeah driver's license that's a big part of it it's really hard to find tree guys it's the same thing for you know if you want to hire ground guys too it's just hard to find people who want to do that kind of work you know because it's hard it's just hard and it's physical and you know you're working outside so it's nice you know in the spring and the fall but in the summer and winter it can be pretty rough so um just constantly I just hear and see it's it's hard it's just hard to build and then you know you might get a good crew this is one of the things I noticed early on just running your crew as a foreman you know I'd get a good crew I've got everybody trained everybody knows their their roles or stuff and then it's like it's just a a matter of time before the crew falls apart somebody's got to go in another crew or somebody breaks their leg or you know it's like so it's frustrating it can be really frustrating you you know try to build a team and then or what happens really usually is a climber will get really good you know and then they go start their own company so I think it's a constant struggle trying to keep employees happy interesting for Tree Service yeah because it is a niche there's not a lot of them and it's like if you can do it you might as well just go do it for yourself almost but see not everybody's interested in having a business that's yeah yeah and I don't I don't necessarily think that everybody should have a business I don't think so either yeah yeah that's for sure because there's it's hard there's a lot of risk you know and some people just don't want that risk and they just want to be consistent kind of have a good thing going and yeah absolutely just do what they want to do to do the work because they actually enjoy the work yeah and then you don't have to you know then you know what you're you know what kind of money to expect and you know you know what the job is and it's you know it's a lot of people they thrive on that on that uh routine you know it's a lot harder to have a routine working for yourself it is a lot harder to have a routine absolutely yeah so is there anyone you know that's like been you know tree climbing for a company for like 10 or 15 years or 20 years or something do those guys exist yeah yeah those guys exist um a lot of guys like that and they they make a good living those guys yeah yeah if you stick with a company for a while um this company I work for out east I've worked with them a couple times Shriner Tree Care in Pennsylvania they've got guys that have been there for like 20 years that's awesome they probably take really good care yeah and that's what they all say they say they take really good care of them you know um East Coast East Coast VS West Coast West Coast same thing different more or less easier harder I yeah that's one of the interesting things that I've I noticed when I started you know posting on Instagram and stuff I saw that all the West Coast guys are really critical of the East Coast guys and vice versa everybody thinks that everybody thinks they're the best you know what's the like what's the beef what is the criticism over you know it's funny it's basically over nothing it's really stupid you know the the guys on the East Coast they'll cut their their notches their face Cuts you know at an upper angle they called it a conventional and on the west coast a lot of guys will do a humble you know it's like it's it's stupid stuff they you know they they get worked up about really silly things yeah yeah just drama and it's the loggers are the exact same way they just you know because you loved stuff well I'm trying to get my foot in the door you're a follower more is that what it is well I I wouldn't say that but I you know I'm definitely an arborist you know by trade that's what I specialize in you know mainly climbing things like that but I've done I've gone Timber falling a few times with some different guys how's that and it's really fun it's really enjoy enjoyable I I'd like to do it some more I'm still trying to kind of get my foot in the logging world it's pretty it's pretty segregated from the you know the tree service World versus logging world just like and your boots for both Industries must just be awesome right yeah yeah Guilty Of Treeson's Boots yeah they are that's good those quirks are actually really comfortable they're just I was wearing those the other day and those are JK boots corks just clarifying yeah the Bison the Bison leather yep yeah they're really soft I noticed that when I put my foot in it they're just they're really soft you know were the corks 16-inch ones too no those are those tents I I think so I don't know yeah and then but your climbers were the 16-inch ones they're tall yeah yeah right now I'm wearing the OTS yeah that you gave me yeah those are they're great I actually wear them on the do you climb in them yeah I do sometimes like the other day I climbed all day in them just because I already put my spurs on and I was like yeah I'll just wear these so they're actually really comfortable no they're good they're good so awesome but I find that I wear the OTS mostly just going like you know wear them to church and I wear them to you know just go to the store yeah that's what I found myself doing too like yesterday so I was at church yesterday and I literally wore the same boots I'm wearing right now just because the same just didn't want to put on anything else I don't know I just threw them on because they're they are that comfortable like this is true same for me I went to church yesterday wearing the ones I want to wear right now I'm wearing the hoodies yeah that's funny yeah it's like I have my climbers in the truck and I've got that tree to do after this job that I'll probably you know if I'm in the tree for a few hours then I think you know those ones you should because climbers ultimately the OTS are not technically intended for climbing because they don't have that extra shank and they're everything but I think you can get away with it you know for a little bit here yeah that's what I do if I'm gonna be climbing for like an hour or something I'll just leave them on but if I'm gonna be spending a lot of time on my screen yeah then I put the well those are better too because they're I like how the leather is tall yeah because then it's just more padding yeah you know what I've been hearing um so oh like light I don't know if it's specifically lineman but like let's just say it's like some linemen or arborist or whatever they'll call in and like order they'll order online and they actually won't order a climber set and when I ask them why they'll say oh because honestly 80 of the time I'm in the bucket right you know and so I is that is that new is that are people just using no there's a lot of Truth to that and uh so uh I had another pair of uh similar you know lineman style boots from um another custom boot company and uh they they actually they do it seemed like they wore out really fast they were also really tall and you know it's true most the time as climbers we're not actually climbing the tree we're in the bucket or we're on the ground or we're driving to the job site yeah so most the time it's not actually spent on the Spurs uh but if you can afford it I think the best is if you have a pair of nice um you know linemen or climber boots and just wear them when you're climbing then they'll last for a really long time yep so the the two pair um method you know is something that I've been trying to explain to people for a long time not just because it's more boots that's not why that's a reason you know sure but it's more about you want one pair for one thing and another pair for another thing and actually I do believe that it's more comfortable for the for the wearer and I do believe that your boots last longer that way like this example just now um you know you can have a climber set specifically dedicated for climbing you're gonna have those for I'm talking a decade probably if you just climb in them you know and that's wise I think that's smart and then keeping another pair for everything that's like on the ground and obviously you know you flip-flop because some days I know you're just busy you don't want to unlace or whatever you know but I do think that's why it's like I remember sometimes guys would come in and they're like one day they're like a farmer for example they're in the mud one day and the next day they're in the shop then the day after that they're like welding something then the day after that they're back to in the nasty mud and the point of the boots is that they can do all kinds of different things that I've seen when a guy has like two pairs and he'll rotate or like a summer pair and a winter pair it just seems like they get more life out of them well you're utilizing your boots in the most you know optimal conditions right so they're gonna they're gonna be more durable you know right so the climbers are meant to be climbed in so exactly they're only climbing them they will last longer and it's only more boots you know it's only technically More Boots if you think about the the time scale being short you know inevitably you're gonna buy two pairs of boots eventually so if you buy them at the same time it's really not more boots it's just more money to put up at that moment at that moment but I do think it's it's worth it in the long run I've been telling people that yeah I do too I absolutely do because you're gonna your boots are gonna last longer and you're going to have a more specialized boot for what you're doing so you're going to be more comfortable yeah you know how many years have you been doing tree work 13 13 years yeah so I started when I was 18 I'm 31 this month that's awesome happy birthday oh thanks these are like a mentor teacher Learning Tree Work that you had or was it kind of self-taught YouTube I've heard some guys learn on YouTube well you know it's been it's been a lot of mentors over the years that's really cool it's been you know a lot of guys that's really really cool pick things up from that's awesome yeah and uh a lot of that comes from you know I found great utility and just being you know rather than being judgmental being curious when I see somebody doing something the way that I don't do it I try to ask you know why do you do it that way try to learn yeah because a lot of times they have reasons you know it's easy to think that you know I mean at the end of the day we're all just you know like chopping a tree down you know but there are these Niche things like I was explaining about the the different face cuts and stuff and if you just take a minute rather than just being like that's dumb why don't you do it this way if you take a minute to just ask them hey how come you did it that way you can learn a lot like and um like my friend Jed he you know I can't remember how long ago I started working with him maybe five years ago or something so I'd already been doing tree work like six or seven years and uh he came uh to work with me at Eastside and I learned a ton from him just you know because he just knew a bunch of stuff that I didn't know he'd been doing it longer and and now I travel around and I sort of you know make YouTube videos documenting tree work all over the place and everywhere I go I learned something that's really awesome yeah it's a really nice holistic view of the industry being able to travel and see how other people Jerry Beranek do things is there like a um I don't know like a like great great guy that it seems to everybody seems to say is like you know one of the best or like the ogs or it doesn't really work that way is it kind of more everyone's doing their own no there are a few guys like that like probably the biggest one that I know of is this guy called Jerry baranick you you might have seen some pictures of him he's uh he he did I think he he's uh he's retired now but was he like one of the really really great ones who's really really good back in the day maybe yeah like he wrote this book called The fundamentals of General tree work and it was pretty revolutionary it came out I think in the early 90s that's super cool yeah there are some pretty crazy pictures of him you'd probably recognize you know like these pictures of him topping this huge seven foot Redwood you know 150 feet up in the air yeah yeah he did all kinds of Northern California so lots of big trees but he wrote this whole book you know he he worked with a lot of different guys doing logging and residential tree work and he wrote this book about it he um really did a great job utilizing you know the industry's changed a lot over the years people have utilized a lot more rigging and rope work and things like that to make the environment more controlled and he you know made huge strides um in the industry yeah that is really really cool yeah I hope to I see you later he is yeah he's down there in a Fort Bragg but he doesn't work or do anything like that anymore I think he does like photography or something now he's I don't know how old he is he's probably like yeah he'd be a great one to get on I've tried getting a hold of him I haven't been able to so maybe we'll try to do that it is like really yeah you should try to have mine he'd be that he's he's like the sort of the um like the the patriarch yeah yeah of the industry like all the younger guys look up to him well you know all the all the younger guys I should say who are kind of on the scene yeah like online and you know um stuff like that is really really cool yeah it's really really so cool another big one is August hanuki yeah I've heard of that yeah yeah yeah yeah he'd be a great guy to talk to is he like your age approximately no he's uh in his 50s oh wow yeah yeah he he started doing YouTube video he he's kind of uh I look up to him because he was kind of the first guy to start really uh doing the YouTube videos that's cool that's super cool yeah so he but he's an arborist you know same thing that's what I do it's almost like this kind of Interest like Niche kind of like you know know each other and yeah big you know no it's not maybe there's a lot is there a lot of guys that you know aren't on so probably obviously right yeah social media aren't on YouTube that you just know you know and stuff like that and you meet probably working together with and all that kind of stuff yeah they're I mean there there are a lot of Hidden Blue Collar Heroes arborists there especially when you think about um you know the line clearance side of things there are a lot of guys out there keeping the power lines going keeping them clear I mean every Town's got people who are cutting trees in it so it's actually a really large number of people um yeah I think it's kind of an overlooked industry like people probably think about it probably yeah you don't think about it at all like ever um so a good example of that is like Wildland firefighting like I never before boots like when I was like you know I don't know 13 14 15 before I started working I don't think anybody thought about Wildland firefighting when you thought of a firefighter you thought of a you know slide down the the pole you know get in the get in the big red truck and like you know that's what you thought of um and so learning just about like while then firefighting was like whoa like this is an entire world and they're actually very important people because the force would all burn down and people would be dying if it wasn't for them you know and so it's like super dangerous I think it's probably the same thing everyone uses not uses but everyone's affected by I think tree work probably and climbers and arborists obviously but nobody like even like thinks about it or even you know just just no one pays attention to it yeah there are a lot of Industries like that these you know these Heroes that just get overlooked like the Wildland firefighters you know like yeah people don't think about those or you know I often think of linemen you know and the I mean not just the and also the arborists that do line clearance you know but also you know when the power goes out those guys that go out there and you know they're out there in the rain getting the power back on I mean that's you know you know fundamental to our civilization what they're doing out there and you know it's just something yeah you don't think about it you're just like oh you know you're annoyed because you gotta wait you know you're trying to drive you're trying to drive and you gotta wait a few minutes for them to fix something so you're annoyed but yeah those guys you know they keep they keep this place running yeah keep the lights on that's true 100 so what does what is the Knicks like you know I don't know three to five Next 5 Years years look like for Jacob Rogers and guilty of treason and what do you think you're gonna be doing it's hard to say because five years ago I certainly wouldn't have thought that I was doing a podcast at a boot manufacturers building in Spokane yeah I don't know I mean uh because I started doing I started uh you know doing Social Media stuff probably about four years ago so things can change pretty rapidly it's it's hard to predict but you know hopefully in five years I'd really like to be um you know hopefully sappy supplies you know basically I'm hoping in five years that sappy supplies is lucrative enough that I can because because I love uh traveling you know making tree videos like we've been talking about and I'd like to continue to do that but it's very expensive um I'm hoping by five years from now I can really be kind of traveling all over the place you know and filming I really do enjoy just uh you know filming and documenting the the tree industry you know there's many places I'd like to go you know in Europe and Australia New Zealand you know just all over the place so I'm hoping that I can do a lot more uh traveling documenting film documenting and filming yeah but it's a tricky balance because you know I've got a wife and three kids now just had another daughter congratulations thanks yeah a month ago so the traveling like I'll travel without them here and there but not too much yeah you know what I mean I don't want to be one of those dads that wasn't around so I try to take them with me as much as possible but that obviously makes it much more complicated you know yeah trying to I think you have a really cool thing going like I've told you like a bunch of times I mean I think that this is this YouTube channel you have is very unique very good I think you're good at it you know and people like to watch it and it's it's cool it's a niche you know and um I don't think YouTube was as big and popular and fancy as it was you know like four years ago you know I just it was popular obviously but it seems like people are just so much more into YouTube now and so I think you've got a really really good thing going and just keep going you know yeah it's gonna keep getting better and keep growing well I think a lot of people are tuning out of Dying Industry's Television you know I think a lot of people are tuning out of Television yeah yeah it's just not as magical as it was when we were kids now it's crazy if I if I actually you know um sit and watch TV I'm just shocked at you the ads and just you know it's all scripted and stuff YouTube you can find anything that you want and you can skip back on YouTube yeah yeah and if you do premium you don't even have to watch right exactly exactly yeah but don't do that because then we don't get paid all right yeah no no no but no that's that's funny um I think that I think that's true I am I don't know what's gonna happen with you know TV going forward but that's why that's why we're on YouTube you know that's why we're gonna keep hammering a starter bikini on YouTube and all the platforms just because I think that's the direction that it's going um you know streaming services all of this stuff like public television and just like cable I think is on its way out um I don't know though who knows it could change in it you know as quickly as it changed the other way to change the other way back you know I don't know but uh but for you specifically I think that you have a really good thing I think people really like watching you and I think it's I think it's very special so just just keep keep doing what you're doing I think it's awesome yeah thank you um appreciate that um but yeah five years from now hopefully I'll have somebody you know I'd like to have somebody with me you know full-time you know helping me manage my social media and you know filming me yeah something like that that would be really helpful you need that I'd really like to do more you know I really want to do more um how-to videos helpful yeah those tutorials because those are the ones that I uh you know people they will tell me you know this really helped me you know and that's that's really cool maybe you're gonna write a book someday Jake yeah yeah I don't know I don't know about that yeah that'd be cool yeah I'll say for us I Youtube think one of the things people really like watching with our stuff it's when I'll do a video about informational like instructional or just like educational talking about you know Kevin the cattle oil why you should do this why should that what kind of boots are for you you know different kinds of models talking about different types of leathers breaking down you know model versus model we did a couple cut in half videos you know people people really really like those um that was fun um and then so I did a cut in half video on our Super Duty model no I did one yeah on the Super Duty model which you don't have that model but um that was awesome and I remember people were like emailing us questions and like commenting on this stuff because they got to see the inside of it and like talk all about it I did a how to oil video and it was like 15 minutes long and we broke down like all of these parts on how to oil this how to oil that how to do that and I like literally we referenced that video in our emails like almost every day because people will email ask questions about this how about this and so I'll literally like just copy links into that video like it's very it's very very nice so even for like your true work but also probably even for sappy supplies I mean if you did breakdown videos of how to use this correctly how to use this correctly like people really that it's education it's informational they love to learn it's like you just keep gobbling up content and it seems like it's never enough like people always want to learn more always want to understand more I always want to see more which is good and then the awareness just grows and the reach just grows like that's what I saw with our YouTube and like the the build videos like how it's made people love that like that's awesome stuff because it is a fascinating cool process so I think that's what you have kind of going for YouTube right now is like people love actually watching you do the work and it builds trust you know the fact that you show every step in the boot so like I made that video here when you built those climbers for me yeah that was awesome people a lot of people watch that video they really like it and you know it builds trust because it's like look this is every step look how long this took like how much a bunch of glue and nails and layers and everything go into this you know yeah and it really puts it into perspective you know somebody's like all these boots are so expensive and then you see somebody build one and it takes that long yeah it's like oh okay customers you get customers through your YouTube channel oh I know I do yeah I just did I did two jobs last week for people from uh my YouTube channel yeah uh like I should Market myself better I should say in my YouTube videos if you want me to cut your trees just calls or something right I always forget to you know mention this like yeah people they they call out they'll uh you know they'll they'll they'll reach out to me and you know it's usually like you know they've got a tractor or something they can handle the cleanup they just want a guy to you know get the trees on the ground and uh you know I'll go out those are my favorite jobs to do what is just to go chop it down yeah yeah just chop it down leave it I don't do a lot of cleanup jobs you know because that's the part that I mean nobody nobody likes doing that yeah well it adds a a lot of complexity to the business once you get a chip track and chipper and you start you know hauling away with wood and the debris it becomes it takes up a lot more of your of your life you know trying to figure out where do you put the chips where do you put the wood you know is so it gets really complicated I like to just get it on the ground and just leave and just and just just cut the tree down and get out of there yeah do you have a abundance of of demand or a lack of demand or in the middle I would say in the middle it's pretty easy for me to you know even just like put a PO like sometimes I'll put a story up you know on Instagram be like I'm available for tree work and then usually I'll get you know a job or two from that so I'm in a fortunate position where because I've built a large social media platform it's you know it's easy for me to get work you know that's really cool and then if the work is slow you know because I'm doing so much social media and now I'm working on sappy supplies if if work is slow for a couple weeks I'll just work on those other projects I usually don't have to you know scramble to to find work yeah you know so you Jed know how how dangerous can this be I mean has has people have people legitimately died on the job yeah you know one of my one of my best friends died just on the job yeah on the job this year wow yeah that was my friend Jed what how what happened well I wasn't there um so it's the same it's hard to say but from what I hear it you know there's a situation where there was uh you know there was a storm a bunch of wind knocked over a bunch of trees and there was a maple tree and two Douglas fir trees they failed and they fell into this Maple so it's kind of the Maple's Still Standing but there are two large fir trees in the canopy and so it's just kind of a big Tangled mess and Jed went to just uh to fall the maple you know thinking that all three trees would fall together you know wow can you picture this kind of like two trees yeah yeah yeah so um when he started cutting the tree I guess he did his face cut and you start on the back cut and nobody really knows why but there was a there was a broken piece of Maple in the canopy that The Furs had broken but you know it didn't anyways the vibration from his chainsaw dislodged basically a large chunk of wood and he everybody heard a noise they looked up and this piece came down and right on them right on him oh my goodness yeah and he died instantly oh my goodness wow and the whole crew saw it you know but no but nobody saw the hanger up there so it's like a freak accident what could have what what should have been done or could have done differently that's the really um unfortunate part you know you hear of a tragedy happening and you go they should have done it this way or that way but it's like who knows you know usually things are preventable um but you know I actually feel I feel really bad for the um everybody involved including the company too because you know you can have all the you can have all the safety meetings in the world and safety protocols and all the right PPE you know all this stuff and then it's great you just have a hanger just Lodge yeah like no amount of safety meetings could have prevented that wow the only thing that could have prevented it was whether if if Jed had been too frightened to do the tree and he would have said no it's too sketchy I'm not going to do that you know that I think that's I like I said I wasn't there but you know I imagine that's the only thing that could have saved his life you know is it is that not something that you know like you can like examine the tree and like look or like you just can't usually you can you know usually from the ground you can be like oh that thing is looks a little broken or a little sketchy yeah but like I said there were two trees I mean basically three trees all tangled up together you know yeah I mean it's it's hard to tell what you're looking at sometimes wow especially our trees are really tall too yeah yeah so it's where did this happen What part of the country uh on my side the the mountains yeah wow it's insane very sad that's terrible yeah it just it's pretty wild but you know um you know they're they're you know there are silver linings though you know a lot of uh the community really did come together you know they donated a lot of money to his GoFundMe he had a wife and two daughters and um you know people a lot of people donate to the GoFundMe it was actually really cool to see the community in the industry kind of come together because um they knew who he was uh you know most people knew who he was from my YouTube videos that's really good at his job he's really good really knowledgeable really kind really humble you know wouldn't wouldn't you know that's actually funny so uh so um it's funny like I was talking about Jerry baranick so so Jed's the kind of guy that he he would never brag like he'd be famous and you wouldn't even know it so uh I I get a text message from August honeyke and he's like hey I'm sorry to hear about Jed and this is before I had made a video or anything and I was like how did you hear about Jed and he's like oh reg coats who's this other Harvest YouTuber told me and I was like I don't even know you guys knew yet and then uh but everybody knew him because they were on this forum called the tree house and so Jed knew all these like kind of famous uh tree guys but he never even said that he knew him you know and then I find out uh I had told that story to us talking to Emma Jed's daughter and I can't remember I said something about Jerry branic and she's like oh yeah we went camping with Jerry brandish once so I'm like of course of course the best kept secret in the true world yeah that's a good way of putting it yeah yeah so wow it's just a just a you know one and a one in a million guys really unique guy wow yeah it's such a tragedy that's terrible yeah it was it was really yeah do you think everyone now is kind of like I don't know when these things happen does everybody kind of like reevaluate oh absolutely recall safety like you know you just reevaluate how to do their procedure oh yeah I mean it's really sobering especially when it's a guy that's well respected you know and I'm really good at his job really good at his job really well respected you know um really good reputation I mean it's yeah it really You Know It uh it takes you back it kind of you know you kind of step back and you're like wow if that could happen to that guy that could happen to any of us there's this thing with um with Pilots with private Pilots where if you look at the statistics of like just people who get their pilot's license um if you look at this like recreational you know private Pilots if you look at this chart of plane accidents and you look at the correlation between who is getting in an accident like who's crashing their plane who's like dying and how long they've been a pilot interestingly enough that it's more not always but it's more often that the pilots who are very experienced and have been doing it for a long time actually end up in getting an accent because and and the younger Pilots don't because when you're a younger pilot you're extremely like you're all about your checklist you're all about your pre-check pre-flight check all these things you're you're very dot your dot your eyes cross your t's you know and then when you get sometimes when someone gets you know just older and more experienced more comfortable they actually can get like a little bit lackadaisical and there was like that thing you know kind of like in in in in in in in the pilot world you know just I know a little bit about that and then I remember they did kind of a similar study kind of with like race car drivers and things like that but I think that you know anytime an event like this happens it's always like and at least like in the pilot Community it's always very like like whoa like and everyone's kind of like oh my gosh like if that could happen to someone as good and and it's not always everybody's fault a lot of times it's just freak accidents that you have no control over but it's always very like okay like if this could happen to this guy who was like known as like amazing super good super experience really good pilot then okay everybody has to like go back and go back to your kind of roots get more serious cross your eyes I mean cross cross streets dot your eyes type thing so I'm sure that you know anytime anybody anything like this happens it's always very like oh my gosh like all right are we doing the right things because that's like that's terrible like you know that's so crazy like it's like out of nowhere you know he woke up one day and I don't think he was expecting to get hit by you know something as crazy as that like that's that's pretty that's pretty nuts yeah it's really similar in the tree industry you know when you read the the they have a monthly accident briefs in the tree care industry magazine that you can read and it shows the you know a lot of the it shows the fatalities that get reported and uh so it's not even all the fatalities but you can see just quickly scanning through them you know it's very common that it's people who have been doing treeck for a long time yeah and it's the same thing yeah they're complacent they're not scared you know and that's the thing with Jed like Jed you know like I said if he would have been frightened then that you could have saved it sounds like in this instance he didn't even really do anything wrong it was just more like a freak accident you know right yeah but yeah I mean it's good that you know you're not afraid and stuff but yeah I think yeah it's hard it's a fine line because you know it's like the saying a complacency kills I mean that that's true so it's a it's a fine but you know the one of the scary things about climbing trees too though is that you can actually it's very easy to get hurt because you are scared and you make irrational decisions based on your fear it's very easy you know for instance you might be afraid of heights you know so you're afraid to go up and take small top out of a tree so you take a huge top because you don't want to climb higher and you put yourself in a riskier position or the same thing if you're lowering a piece of tree with rigging you know you don't want to climb out to the end of the branch so you're gonna you know tie it on right here and cut it and it's this big branch on a bad Union and so it's very easy to or you're you're nervous and you're thinking about something else so you cut yourself with the chainsaw because you're not thinking about the saw I mean it's crazy so it you can really put yourself in a dangerous situation if you you know let the fear kind of control you yeah but at the same time you don't want to just be Fearless because then you know accidents Innovation Of Climbing Equipment accidents happen you mentioned earlier that the technology and like the roping and all that stuff has gotten better over the years is that true and then like has things gotten maybe like safer you know is there better equipment better tools better procedures now you know like has it has the industry improved I can't say I don't know if it's gotten safer or not um that's that's yeah I can't say if it's gotten safer or not I just don't know if it has I know that even since I've started uh you know climbing trees has gotten the gear has gotten much better uh higher quality gear higher quality but you know that's more geared towards you know uh ease of you know practice making the the trees easier to you know making it easier to move on a rope making it easier to you know so the the gear has gotten better but I don't know if it's gotten safer I would be curious to to know that as well I I think because um you know there's a big so there's a thing called SRT climbing so it's a single rope technique which has gotten really popular and I've heard since that has gotten more popular uh Falls have increased the rate at which people fall from the tree yeah because for you know a few different reasons but these are just things that I hear I don't really know you know I don't have any data I can't say if things have if things are getting safer or what is your Technique how do you how do you climb usually uh well you know SRT is single rope technique and then there's DRT which is double rope technique and it's just sort of situationally dependent on which one I will use for the particular tree or instance or the particular tree yeah exactly and um you know it's kind of a hard thing to talk about and explain without showing somebody like the ropes and the gear and stuff you just mentioned that earlier yeah yeah yeah tree work is hard to to talk about it's easier to show it's way easier yeah you can't explain to somebody how to tie a knot you and back to the the you know the How Guilty Of Treeson started on Youtube teaching stuff the scale like uh the reason I started a YouTube channel originally was actually because I thought that it could scale better because I was in charge of uh you know training and instructing people and I found myself really annoyed because I I made like a list of knots that I wanted all that I wanted everybody to to know you have to know kind of a lot of knots you know and uh I was just teaching people knots over and over and over again and I thought this is such a waste of time I can I'm just gonna make a video you know tell people to go watch the video I explain it there and so I just made a few uh not videos and then you know oddly enough people started watching and then I made a few like videos about tree jobs and yeah I but I originally my idea was just to try to save myself some time so I'd have to repeat myself that's why I made a few uh not videos but it worked and it turned into a big fancy YouTube just kind of it just kind of evolved people wanted to see like a job so then I film a job and be like oh show us some more jobs so it's really cool yeah yeah so I didn't expect it that way but it just goes to the you know that uh it's so much easier to teach at scale I think that there's probably a lot of people who have begun tree work because of you and like the other YouTubers too you know for sure and that probably you don't even or maybe you do know I'm sure they maybe they reach out to you or not I don't know but like that's really cool that's I think that's you're impacting this industry probably in a bigger way than you maybe even know and that's very like that's awesome that's very influential thank you yeah I do get that actually I've gotten that a lot people will sometimes people all you know write me an email just be like I mean they don't even want anything it's just like a nice yeah thank you it's really cool I get that a lot on Instagram too people just want to say thank you yeah and I feel bad sometimes I don't reply um just because I you know it's hard to know what to say so messed up yeah you know what's something funny I've noticed is so um in so like with you know making making work boots working men different Industries like you instruction alignment arborist firefighters plumbers you know oil rig Drillers and stuff it's like um there's there's usually figures like yourself kind of in every industry who are kind of leaders more more known um experienced and like other ones we'll kind of like look up to and it's funny that there's this kind of Common Thread not always but there's kind of this Common Thread where it's like usually guys are like really good at their job but they maybe don't aren't really like charismatic particularly or like super social media Savvy or something or like you know like email Savvy or whatever and so it's kind of funny to see that like this little example you just mentioned like someone wrote you think and like you don't even really know what to say like if you were in person you'd just shake the guy's hand be like oh thanks man you know but it's uh that's funny and that's so true because I think there's like this interesting now mix or mingle between the social media YouTube World which usually is people who are like you know very social media Savvy and like charismatic and they Rock and they can word stuff and then you've got this side over here which is like polar opposite it's this just kind of blue collar Blue Collar let the work do the talking um type thing and like know those things two things are mixing and I think you get situations like what you just had like you know it's like I didn't really know what to say to you you know it's a thank you like that's really nice you know I just that's funny I just think that's funny and it's good I think that it's only going to like these two worlds are only going to mix more over time and I think that's only a good thing and I think it people are going to learn about there's more Industries out there that no one really knows about like tree climbing is kind of an industry that maybe not a lot of people know about but it affects them it's like it's only going to do more good or like boots for us not a lot of people know that you can get a handmade pair of boots that you can be you know customized to your feet and custom boots and stuff like not a lot of people know that YouTube has done that for us and the Instagram has done that for us like it's only a good thing and even you know I I I want to put more effort into social media because it is so beneficial for reach and awareness and it's just it's like it's only good in my opinion like there's negative things to it obviously but like it's just funny to see that mingle and those two things happening like the cross section and I'm sure that like if it wasn't for YouTube you'd probably be doing a lot different things maybe or like you'd probably even be a little bit of a different climber maybe and maybe you wouldn't be as experienced you know so like there's a lot of good I think and benefits that that come from this and it's just it's so funny to see the mingling of those worlds that normally would not ever like talk like you mentioned Jed would never do like this probably you know yeah no no yeah he's a good example of somebody that's not tech savvy you know so he he didn't really make content or anything but because I met him you know I was able to learn the time I mean there are so many guys like that they're just a wealth of knowledge but they're not you know they're not very tech savvy or they don't have interest in you know post doing anything like this I mean there are tons of guys like that and they're out there and so it but it's it's a nice it's a nice space for people like you or I who can have sort of a foot in each world yeah you know because there are just there are a lot of good climbers and there are a lot of you know uh social media people Jacobs "Closest Calls" Story's but there aren't a lot of people that do both things so do you have like a crazy close call story hey uh I feel like I've got a few crazy close call stories um yeah I think the worst one actually talked about this in I did one other podcasts before on the educated climber podcast and I tell the story then I think that the scariest thing that's happened to me is I I I so I walked up to yeah we had this huge yellow chipper it's like 22 inches tall 28 inches wide the feed you know and I walked up to this chipper with so when you feed a wood chipper you're supposed to like stand on the side you know very carefully put the branches in there are these rollers these metal rollers that grab the branch and they slowly roll the branch into their blades behind the rollers and so that's what chips it so you put a branch and it just starts going in and there's there's a thing there's a reverse bar so there's a bar that you can push to sort of turn the roller so that they're going the other direction and um there there's also a thing called the they're called The Last Chance chords so there are some chords by those feed wheels and you pull those and that pushes the reverse bar uh in case in case you start to go in you pull those and it puts it in reverse yeah so I walked up to this chipper and you know just casually um I think I was on intercoms or something and we were doing this crane job and I was just like you know not really paying attention sort of that complacency thing we were talking about and I walk up with these two large Cedar Limbs and Cedar limbs are naturally kind of curly and I put them in each side and these limbs grab my ankles and they lift my ankles up and the the branch starts the two branches are feeding into the chipper and now my feet versus like up and what yeah and so I get like like my heart speeds up just telling the story so it's like going into the chipper and I'm like you know oh man you know I can see I'm getting closer to these feed wheels and I try to hit the reverse bar but the angle I'm at I can't really reach the reverse bar so and the area between there's the feed wheels and the outside of the chipper there's like this metal box you're in basically you know they call it the feed table so now I can't but now I'm like going into the chipper and I can't reach the the reverse bar so I grab the last chance cords and what what you don't know until you actually need to pull those is those are actually really hard to pull depending on the angle you're at so I was like sideways and I tried pulling on this chord and uh you know the first pull I was like oh this will fix it and nothing happened I pulled again and so now the chords like behind my head almost and my face is like right here by the rollers and I just close my eyes and I just like pulled as hard as I could and it was just hard enough to put the chipper into neutral not even reverse it's kind of between the gears and I was like screaming and you know Brian run in the crate he jumped off the crane he shoved the chipper in reverse and it spit me and the branches out it was like inches oh my gosh dude yeah it was insane I was like I was like oh it's over it was it was crazy it sounds like it was like a that's like a horror it's like a horror yeah oh my gosh and it like and it's you know almost deafening it's so loud you hear the you hear the branch getting shredded you know and it's just loud and these rollers are just gonna oh yeah I thought I was done but it got worse as I got closer because I couldn't I couldn't pull this cord it wasn't as easy as I thought so after that I was like hey we need to like make sure these cords are oiled up and he's scared of pulled up yeah it turns out these are actually kind of hard to pull when you're in that moment that's like traumatizing yeah if I had been any weaker I wouldn't have been able to do have used the chipper since yeah yeah many times but never like that I've never I haven't fed a branch in either hand like that because you know that sandwiches you between limbs you know I mean the two limbs that just close they I mean they just move together and it just it just pinned me and I I was like a rag doll it was just totally you know that's insane yeah yeah it was so crazy wow um another close one I had when I was I was probably 19 or 20 when this happened it was before um we had bucket trucks and I was doing a fur removal and it was raining and I tried like pushing on a limb to swing it over and the tips touch the the power lines and I got shocked by these like I don't know what the voltage is but they were pretty they're pretty big well it was clearly enough to hurt you but not enough to kill you I guess right yeah but it was just for a second but it was insane like the voltage it's hard to even explain what it was like it didn't you know if you like stick a fork in the outlet you know electric fence you'll see it electrocuted so I touched these wires and it was just for like a second the branch rolled off the wire but I like I tensed up so hard that it just it felt like I was getting crushed like I was under really deep water that's what it felt like the electricity was so intense wow and it was just for a second um but I was like I was like twitching and stuff afterwards I was um freaked out and I went to the hospital and they so they monitored my blood because electrical Burns you burn from the inside out so you have to have your blood tested for five hours to see if you have any internal um damage to your organs so that so I didn't have any damage but that was like that was just a crazy experience because tree work is a lot more dangerous than I thought originally yeah that's like really serious yeah well you know it's seriously stupid because you know we should have just had a bucket truck for a tree like that yeah yeah thing you know it's like now you know never to do it that way yeah well that one I knew you know I knew better going in right I knew better but it was just like yeah you know I was just talking about who knows what and you know just not paying attention so crazy yeah that Glue Room was just nuts yeah boot making doesn't have nearly the level of danger there I mean there are you know some small things but nothing overdose on that glue I mean you could you could try I mean I don't think anyone's done it yet you know but um actually a funny story on that so when I was like younger I don't know we had a smaller shop and um I think I was like maybe 14 and um these two guys came in and you know now as an adult I know what to call them they were like hippies you know but at the time I didn't really know what to call them and they come in and they're like hey um I've never had anybody asked this before mine just I'm like 14 I'm working with my it's like my parents shop you know it's like Mom and Pop Shop you know and they're like hey can we uh can we buy some glue I was like what I was like I don't I was like let me ask my parents you know and so I ran back I'm like Mom Dad they want to buy some glue and my parents are also like no we don't we don't sell glue like we're a shoe shop you know so I run back out and I'm like yeah sorry guys I can't I can't sell you any glue and they're like oh okay just asking you know like yeah okay like just curious yeah and now as an adult I know exactly yeah yeah so that's funny but no I mean like funny that they even how would they even know like oh yeah go to a booth yeah go to a shoe shop good stuff super fast acting you know yeah I don't even know yeah no at this point I think you get used to also we have like really good ventilation in our glue room we have a dedicated room for all of us oh absolutely because it would it would it's the blue room we're gonna go we're gonna go relax yeah interesting podcast yeah that's really funny that's really maybe we should do one later in the group like hey guys this is the glue room Edition podcast these guys are talking really slow yeah start talking about all kinds of stuff oh totally get off track yeah but no like the title of the podcast JK boots um it's it's very well ventilated and like you know it's not like that it's not that I think probably the the nastiest thing can be like it just sometimes makes you sick a little bit like if it's like a lot it like you can physically get nauseous because it's pretty it's pretty powerful like pretty potent you know but um that's really really funny or like at this point I'm already like numb to the smells of everything just because of time like leather and everything and black people will come in and like oh my gosh like this smells so good because the smell of leather is really nice and I'm just completely like I don't even I don't even smell anything anymore just because you're so used to it but um that's that's really nice I'd say the dangers like the only dangers that we Dangers of Boot Making have as a boot maker obviously you know smashing your thumbs smashing your fingers and stuff that always sucks you know but really realistically you're only doing that if you're a just learning or B it's not your thing you know like you know you do it once you do twice you usually learn you know after that um we use a lot of blades we use a lot of sharp blades um there's definitely the potential to cut yourself and slice yourself that's probably the most common thing like a little dangerous but that's nothing you know we have some Sanders that are just belt you know belt fed Sanders that you know the worst thing you can do is just Nick yourself on that and I mean yeah it's whatever but it's not anything you're not gonna lose a limb or a finger you know um the dangerous smoke probably like one of the most dangerous machines would be like probably also we have a trimmer that one's that one's actually very dangerous so we have a trimmer that trims the soles like in the yeah I think I showed that to you and it's it's kind of gnarly there's a lot of safety features on there though um and there's like an emergency stop and all this stuff and um and again you'd have to be pretty either poorly trained or not even poorly trained because if you train it's like very serious but I'd say like either very negligent or not really know what you're doing to like have something happen the way that machine works it's literally like probably like a it's like three or four serrated blades kind of connected together probably like literally like the width of my finger so if every finger was a blade and it's just like spinning and grabbing and it's actually rotating counter counterclockwise and I mean it will it will take a finger like probably like like nothing like a carrot or something but again there's like a guide and a gauge and a feed you know in there and so you're you're running it with a foot pedal and you know your hands aren't really anywhere near the blade very like they're close but not really and you're more just guiding the boot kind of like along this blade so again hard to not hard but like kind of a little bit more challenging to get hurt on that but still totally can um and then I would say our Stitcher machine so but again same thing like with the stitcher machine you'd have to like almost try I did once so like um there was a particular moment hard to explain but like I was stitching this like super old old worn down pair of boots for a resole and had a met guard on there do you know what that is a meguard like welders wear like this flap over the top of their boots okay yeah yeah okay and um I was trying to like save it and not have to replace the meguard for the guy and all this stuff and so I put my hand like underneath the boot like right where the needle of the stitcher goes to guide it along and like I literally just caught my middle finger on one of the needles and it like just pretty much broke through my nail ripped like the tip of my finger you know so like nothing insane yeah I thought my stories were bad yeah I had no voltage okay no no no about to get eaten alive by a chipper you know type thing so like I said it's very low low much safer so yeah if you're trying to compare boot making you know entry work but making is much safer you know the only thing we have is toxic chemicals and you might get a little high but that's okay yeah yeah it's covered in the insurance policy yeah yeah but that's it that's it um that's really really funny I never Experience At Work thought that you know obviously true work you know is like you can fall but I never thought that it was like the other stuff right because you see like a GoPro clip of a guy climbing it's obviously your brain stuff yeah falling but you know you could a lot of guys they get killed because they cut themselves and they can't get down to the ground fast enough you're kidding yeah no it's really a lot of people don't think about something like that and a lot of guys actually they you know they start the tree they don't have their knots and stuff tied so they can't quickly repel out of the tree they'll tie it when they get up there and but if you cut yourself you know you gotta get down fast yeah so that's a big danger is cutting yourself and then being up there because you know if you start bleeding profusely it's very hard for even for a trained person even if you have somebody else how quickly can you get down like if you need to get down like right if you're if you have taken the steps and you're properly tied into the tree you can get down to the ground in just a few seconds wow you know yeah but you have to have all your stuff set up that way yeah be anticipating that you don't get cut you know is there like a speed test or race like how quickly you can get up how quickly you can get down or it's not about that it's about safety and doing it like correctly like is speed valued like how fast you can scale up a tree the um you know you see yeah that's kind of a tough question yes and no I think you see a lot with new climbers you know guys in their young 20s they'll like uh you know they're really physically fit they try to like do everything really really fast yeah a lot of times it's the older guys have been doing it longer they just you know you can be really sort of you can move your body quickly but if you don't take the right steps to set up the rigging properly and to know where to cut things and how to manage your ropes and stuff like you can be very you know fast in in the physical sense but then you get your rope cut on a branch and now you're like stuck fighting it for 10 minutes right so they say uh fast is what I think I've heard somebody say like Smooth is fast or fast is slower I don't know something like something like that so that that's I see that with us too in this regards to like for example let's take a position like like lasting the boots so that's when you're you know if you've seen any of our build videos you'll recognize it when the guy has like pliers and he's like molding the leather around and you know making these pleats and you know trimming them and stuff it's like you're molding the leather around the last uh I've seen I've seen like guys like man because it is pretty physical it's pretty physical and I've seen guys like oh oh like struggling struggling like go go you know and then like we have a couple guys that they're a little bit older they're just got like you know 20 30 years under their belt and if you watch them work it doesn't really look like they're particularly like struggling physically or even like really kind of like they're not huffing and puffing so to speak but they're they like will work faster and get done sooner than the guy who like would be huffing and puffing and that's that's like a that's not always true because usually the guy huffing and puffing like they're learning still and they need some time to kind of get in the in this in the flow of things but that is true when you know how to like use your tools and you're like more smooth with it I think the saying is um smooth as fast and rough is smooth as fast and and slow is rough or something something I know what you're talking about yeah before yeah and um I think that's totally true and so it's like probably similar like in all these industries and like I'll watch some of the some of the guys work sometimes that have like you know 20 years under their belt and it's it's impressive it's cool like um you know they're just it doesn't really look like they're particularly trying you know but they're just they're just going you know that's just skill Customer Service that's experience one of the funny things about doing a tree job for say A you know a customer they have no they you know they they have no they have no idea what they're looking at so what's funny is you'll have a guy and he'll you know he'll do something wrong and a branch gets lodged where it wouldn't have if he would have rigged it properly and the whole crew's spending 20 minutes fighting the steward branch and you know everything's going wrong and at the end of the job and everybody's like sweating and they're like wow thank you so much you worked so hard you know I'll give you a tip and then you have a guy that's like you know very smooth and everything gets done written correctly yeah and they're like what am I paying for yeah like you guys are already done yeah they have no concept yeah they have no idea yeah they there's something sick to sometimes these the customers they like they almost enjoy seeing the people struggle they like think they're getting a better deal or something maybe it's definitely noticed that make it look like you're doing an extra good job yeah that's so funny oh my gosh customer service man that's yeah I worked with this one guy who's a contract climber years ago named Noelle and he said that he he's like one of the things that I'll do you know when I'm in the tree I'll I'll make sure you know when I see the customer I'll be like can you get me the pulley so that I can very slowly and carefully rig this limb down without hurting the customer's house he said it's like really corny but they love it yeah then they're like oh wow look at you know you're really good you care so much hey I need that block you know yeah yeah yeah so you'd like say that he'd try to put on a show yeah yeah yeah customer service is a whole and also customer opinion you know is a whole nother it's an entirely different world and it adds another layer of difficulty to an already difficult job you know like what you have and I think I think what we do you know can be hard and um yeah it's a whole other topic called another thing conversation or like even interpretation like customer and you can't blame people because they don't really know totally um sometimes you can blame them because if if you don't know then you should trust more yeah I've dealt with that a lot especially when you're talking about pruning like I hate pruning trees just because of the human element like I enjoy pruning trees if it wasn't for the homeowners but they're always like oh can you cut this too or can you cut that why don't you cut this and it's like why did you hire an arborist to do this right right if you know exactly exactly yeah that's absolutely the frustrating part about yeah pruning trees is dealing with the customers customer service is extremely important you know it is truly because you know ultimately you are here like for the customer you know um and maybe it's different because you're more of a service based um business we're like a we're also a service based business because we we offer the service of like repairing of our own boots and stuff but it's more product based business and like just customer service is just so important than that you know answering people's questions building the confidence explaining things to them correctly so like we that's why we're so like heavily invested into that like back to the whole YouTube thing like that's huge for us is investing in that so people get it and like they do understand but from time to time and honestly the truth is like 95 of our customers are like really awesome like they're great they're actually quality people like they're really great people they're hard workers they're true Americans they want to provide for their family they just want good quality stuff like that's wonderful and awesome so it's like a pleasure it's a joy it's just this you know small category this is five percent I think it's probably this way in every industry probably probably close to yours I don't know exactly maybe it's worse or harder sometimes in the tree service industry but like there's always that small category that just you just have to figure it out just work with it yeah it's it's whatever you know and and that's why you you have a team and that's why you have you know flows that you follow and that's why you have um policies you know as as light as you can keep them because you don't want to make the business all about rules and policies but you know it's like you need to have those for this five percent of people because you know like plus as you grow that five percent maybe it stays at five percent but it's a larger number and you know you don't want to end up spending your entire day just dealing with with problems you know and so um customer service is a huge customer experience maybe is a better term like customer experience is extremely important especially for us too like that's why I was telling you that we have like status update emails and we we try to communicate like like I don't think you can over communicate like I would I would want our customers to tell us hey like okay like you're over communicating like then maybe we would consider like pulling it back a notch but like I want to over communicate I want to oversimplify I want to um make the barrier to entry that's a term barrier to entry so like significantly tiny you know and so um I think it plays into both Industries you you know you have to have a good customer experience you know otherwise like word of mouth is probably the number one way that you grow your business in the tree service industry it's also very true for us too but because we're a product you know we advertise through the Facebook and through Google and you know there's SEO and YouTube and Affiliates all this stuff but like I'm sure that if someone has a really great experience with a tree service industry it's kind of like a bigger job they're going to tell their neighbor they're going to tell they're going to tell their family they're going to tell people just around oh hey I need this tree cut down oh I used you know oh I use guilty of treason guy on YouTube he was like awesome you know so I think that's probably super super big for you like have you been experiencing growth just from word of mouth is that how you people find out about you is it more through YouTube is it both yeah they uh they usually usually email me or you know you same thing they'll refer to their friends to me stuff like that referrals yeah referrals is huge probably yeah yeah yeah but the the customer yeah like that company I was talking about Shriner Tree Care the owner of that company Steve he does a really good job he thinks of all these like little details that a lot of people don't think about like um you know he like like every crew carries a bag of grass seed in their truck which is like weird but you know if you scuff up the grass dropping a piece of wood on it he said you just throw some grass seed on it and the customers they just they love it you know because it shows it like that you care that you care that's very cool yeah so just you know he's really good at just thinking of little tiny things like that you know very customer oriented oriented yeah and he's had tremendous success with you know both his customers and his employees you know over there loves those guys but yeah just little simple thoughtful just being thoughtful yeah yeah and it's it's um it's hard sometimes um because people have different expectations it's hard to sometimes cater to other people's your customers level of expectation and it's also difficult to know what that even expectation is like you have a guess over time with experience just because like you know if you've been in business for x amount of time you approximately understand your customer base so you know kind of like what they're looking for and that that's like comes with time but I remember yeah you know like I remember when we were first you know when we were younger and getting started like speaking for for myself I was never the type of guy to um like if I ordered something like I honestly would forget about it almost I like a borderline forget about it because there's just other things going on in life and like you ordered it and it's kind of like okay like whenever it shows up it shows up um but not so you know with everyone some of other people are very like they order something and they just can't like they can't it can't get here fast enough you know and so contacting emailing asking which is good and appropriate and right and I appreciate so much that people are excited to receive our product it's I it's it's actually a blessing like I'm grateful for that because that's cool and like that makes me feel like people want what we have so that's a really nice feeling but um you need to you need to take care of that like you need to address that and so that's why I even designing this complicated flow of you know status update emails which is like was really hard to get set up and we had a couple moments where it was like they misfired and sent people the wrong stuff and it's like oh my goodness and then that creates a bigger mess but that's all worth it in order to create this awesome experience for people because you know when when people are going to talk about your business I think that like it let's say the pro so our product is amazing I think we have a really good product but let's say let's just say for example your product is not as good as the next guy's product a little bit but your customer experience is way better people will refer to the customer experience they love having a good journey and a good experience and they love feeling treated just special just they want to feel like they just want to feel special and I appreciate that and like respect that and acknowledge that and like I'm all about that like even our unboxing experience we we have some really nice paperwork in there we have a note that's was we we made a note that has was signed by my dad so it was written by my dad right JK he founded the business so it's like a special note from him and it's his signature and it's actually his handwriting and it looks it's just really nice you know just you immediately feel like welcomed you know into like this kind of maybe culture or community and there's like really nice detailed paperwork on like how to do this how to do this there's a bottle of oil in the Box you know if you there's laces in there there's insoles in there it's all packaged well there's a sticker and that's like see like small things like what does a sticker cost you 25 cents but it's about like it's in the box it's in there and it's like oh that feels nice and so again it's those small like thoughtful things or even as like when I was back in the day and where we implement this now as well but like you know calling somebody a year later you know hey how how are your boots like that's first of all that's really cool if I got called a year later I would be so like blown away because that means that this company actually cares for me um but like that's an example of a a really Next Level customer service like that's really really cool and that's really really nice or contacting people throughout their process um you're six weeks in to a 14-week build how you doing do you have questions like are you good you know like people love that and so those things are hard to scale as you get bigger and grow you just have to get more creative about the way that you do it but it's 100 achievable and it's so worth it's so worth the trouble to set it up just to create that really nice customer experience and we don't always hit the mark like we've failed pretty heavily you know on some experiences before and you know like we try to own up to that and fix it and make it right but like as long as you just don't give up and you keep focusing on how do I make my customers happier how can I make their experience better um Jeff Bezos like it's kind of funny like word little drops in the bucket compared to that but like he did this Ted Talk and it just really stuck with me and he said he's like I always think about my customer he's like I'm always thinking about my customer I just focus on my customer and my thoughts that was like if that's and I believe him I mean I don't think he'd be lying about that because Amazon is ultimately like amazing what they've built it's incredible very easy to use it's very easy to use and that's why I like people put two and two together you know so it's like I believe that I believe him and his team when they say that that we just we just want to focus on our customer and you know honestly Amazon has raised the bar I think for the rest of the planet on customer experience customer service customer Journey you know all these things and like we're all about that like people oftentimes ask like okay like what's the goal for JK boots I don't want to just be a great boot company I want to be a great company just in general you know so that means more than just focusing on boot things that means all the parts and pieces that go into a transaction that go into that experience that go into that journey and so I just wish you the same things you know doing what you're doing like that's I found success in that focusing on the customer having a really good experience and journey and I think that if you if you just felt like and I'm learning that from Jeff Bezos and these guys and like looking like even looking at how like Ford operates and how they sell trucks to people and like you know you can go online and build your custom truck and stuff like that people love doing that and so just picking up on things like that people who have done it better than you've done it you know um that's like how my brain thinks and it's it's not magic and it's not a secret you just have to go find it see it and like and do it you know so that's kind of what we've seen and I'm sure though that you have obviously very good customer service and good experience because otherwise you know you wouldn't keep getting referred to people wouldn't keep saying oh call Jake you know like that wouldn't be happening if you weren't doing a really good job doing it so I'm sure you have your own you know special techniques and Journeys and experiences with that where you've learned how to do this better learn how to do this better like you know how customers react to certain things like it's even funny that you bring up the thing about like tipping if someone does it really really fast and really really well you know the customer is like no fat enough no if they do it clumsily exactly you know it's like that's that's really funny you know that's and that's something that you only learn by like being there like being on the job you know so that's pretty cool that's that's like I think I think that you probably have a really really good thing going on with that and I don't know like it's customer service hard you know doing this tree service stuff like is it is it challenging is it easy do homeowners like watch you the whole time well I'm in a really unique position because I just do these I just do like kind of small dinky jobs you know right yeah you know and uh the people that call me you know they know that uh I you know most of the people that I work for they've seen my YouTube videos so they kind of know what to expect yeah so there's a lot of trust and I should I actually think that's a really nice thing that's really really good yeah it's really nice um and then if somebody reaches out to me you know Todd told me to reach out you know I'll send a link to my YouTube channel and I'll be like you know this is the the work I do if you're interested and it just so for me that is what that's been really helpful that people just you know they uh they just trust me when I show up so I've had a really hard time I I know I've had a really easy time uh I I had a hard time when I was younger I started running a crew uh at you know when I worked at Eastside tree works when I was like 20 21 something like that yeah I started running a crew and that was actually really hard the customer service because people just didn't they didn't like you know how young I was they didn't like me saying this is how we should do this job this is how we should do this trees you know they so hard to get around I remember that being a very frustrating uh experience um and it was also hard managing people uh being that young but you know I really can't complain um people are people are really cool to me honestly um it seems like pretty much wherever I go and I'm in a kind of a cool Niche because I I really enjoy I get to work with a lot of different tree services you know because either I'm doing like you know smallish jobs for um customers or I do a lot of you know contract work and so I get a really cool view of the the industry but I can for sure tell that it's just the the customer service is is just huge um and and actually I can I remember when I first started doing tree work there was a company called uh there was a company called Evergreen and I could be wrong about this but I remember when I first started it was like every chip truck on the road it seemed like it was an evergreen truck and you know everywhere I went you would hear people complaining about the company they had you know bad uh you know customer service or you know their salesman was really rude and I heard this a whole bunch of times and over the years you know I noticed that I saw those trucks less and less and now you know I think they're in business but I think they've uh you know they're doing like smaller trucks and you know I don't know maybe they're maybe they're bigger than ever but yeah it could be totally wrong but from my perspective it's like I hear people complaining about this company and I don't see the company around anymore you know yeah and I assume that's just because you know you can only there's only so many people that you can work for once and then burn them you know because it's a you know it's not just that the referrals help you get more work it's also people will say to their friends if you did a bad job too and so it'll be harder to yeah it goes in the opposite direction and it goes goes both ways and I think what matters is as long as even if you do make a mistake just make it right try try at least to make it right you know and that's probably what matters more than anything and just care you just have to care you know and if if somebody doesn't care I think that's when mistakes and like not mistakes but problems occur But ultimately dude everyone's human like yeah our you know it doesn't always work out like you don't always hit every Mark perfectly like that's just I don't know like I want to you know like everybody wants to but sometimes it's it just doesn't work that way and I think what matters more than anything is like even if something didn't go out exactly as planned just make an effort to make it correct make it right and and come to good terms with the other side I think that like with this Evergreen situation like or whatever I don't know the details right whoever whoever whatever but like probably totally wrong like you know company XYZ like yeah yeah I think you only are in a bad spot if because every every company makes mistakes every company watches something like there's no company that's perfect ever that's just doesn't happen but what matters is how you come back from it and are you gonna fix it like okay something didn't work out okay like the team inside okay we know that this didn't work out let's attack it like let's fix it and then just move on to the next thing there's no perfect company it just it just doesn't it just doesn't exist even these big giants like Ford will recall a truck from time to time GM will recall a vehicle from 10 10. how you know like you ask like how you guys have engineers and it's billion dollar Corporation how like just like that you know just like that just just missed it you know like it just happened you know so I think that's like the human elements and ultimately it's okay and it just matters how you come back from it that's that's yeah I mean companies are just made up of humans it's just a group of people it's just people yeah but I've noticed that you know just a little bit goes a long way a little bit does go a long way customer you know I've noticed that with both you know now with sappy supplies too like you know I'll have trouble getting things in stock or on time and if you have back orders but if I just you know reach out to them before they reach out to me hey we're trying to get back for you you know they're they're really understanding exactly yeah I think most people are genuinely good and nice and kind most people are you know they're kind of like inherently that way but yeah they're still they're still your five to ten percent as they say I think you're supposed to allot for that amount anyways you know so it's fine yeah just be prepared yeah yeah Sappy Supplys most people are good but anyways but I've been amazed at how many emails I get for sappy supplies do you have this do you have that are you gonna carry this you're gonna it's like a lot of messages and but I'm the same way like I would just buy something and just I would never think to email the company neither would I I always either a lot of people do a lot of people do I I'm I never do that like I don't know why you know but like I never do that if I order something I just kind of there's even things that I know that I've ordered that haven't arrived yet yeah and I don't know like I almost I just know it's gonna show up like I just don't care enough to like go actually like figure it out you know but there are people that do and yeah I mean it's okay how is like customer service going with sappy supplies you respond to everything pretty much or you and your guy yeah me and my guy will um and then I'll like you know I'll just write thank you on like the packing slip and then I sign my name that's really cool people really like that you know so sappysupplies.com all your tree gear it's all there yeah all the climbing gear everything yeah and uh you know I'm working on adding stuff to it basically every week I'm adding yeah you know a little bit here and there do people request stuff and then let's say okay well I don't have that it's like I'll go get it on there or do you kind of know what needs to be on yeah or they they say oh I want this it's not on your site and then I'll add it to the site and buy it and then I'll be like okay it's added and they're like oh I bought it somewhere else I get that a lot I'm like come on whatever but I mean it's fine but uh you know I actually do get a lot of that it seems like people want something and then I add it and I just buy it somewhere else because they don't have the the patience the next guy will come along yeah yeah for sure but I try to you know do a good job of just I try to make it feel you know personable to the people I know that like uh you know I have to be able to compete with these other you know stores and the only thing I've got going from you know I can't compete with any of these big stores I've got millions of dollars of inventory and huge amounts of staff and all this stuff so I just all I've got is my customer service you know and my reputation you know in my videos and stuff so for me it's super important that I try to do right by these people because that's the only incentive that they have to buy from me right they could buy from any other store yep you know uh don't despise Small Beginnings you know it's like you gotta start somewhere those big time guys also started somewhere it just matters that you keep going everybody praises the beginning and then praises the end but the middle is usually always the quietest and most silent time that nobody talks about and it's in the middle that you have to just put your head down and keep going you know so yeah I've heard the phrase it takes 10 years to become an overnight success that's what they say yeah that's what they say and I think there's truth to that and yeah just keep going I mean it it will it will get better and you know it's good everyone should think about ways to be better than everybody else and be unique and try different things JK Apparel and sell different products and yeah you ever think that you'll Branch out into other apparel oh yeah for sure I would love to absolutely absolutely our customers ask us for all kinds of different things all the time in Boots wise and then also apparel wise too you know so mostly leather products mostly leather products mostly leather products but I think there's a lot in like the Workwear side of things and you know we already do a really good job we have a lot of quality quality is a big thing like our reputation is is is built on this and so I think if we were able to offer quality gear that was other stuff I think it would also do really well just because the name is there and that would be a joy and a pleasure to be able to provide more good stuff for people and I think that like I'm seeing a return to American-made American sourced or just quality products in general and there's still people who don't want to pay anything like you know they want to just get the cheapest thing that they can and that's fine and that's always been and like always will be but there definitely is a large category of people that they just want good stuff they just want quality stuff and price matters but it's not as important as can I get the best possible product you know so we apply that principle to our boots we try to price you know as as conservatively as possible but ultimately it is a really high quality product and it's you are getting what you're paying for for sure and more actually so yeah I mean we get emails all the time asking for this and this and this feature and this model or this style and oh can you guys do work here and can you guys can you make me a signature boot yeah exactly yeah exactly you know that's that's there and um so yeah I mean we're gonna do more stuff we're gonna do more stuff we're just so busy with what we're doing right now right yeah it's like hard to sometimes do other things but we will you know my brother and I are are young and we've got a lot of time ahead of us and a lot of a lot of accomplishments yeah careful around that Stitcher yeah exactly so yeah like we're in a good spot but um I think I think you and I will see AI like as time goes on and there's more social media and more AI like we'll see the business World change I use the AI to name my YouTube videos there you go that works it works good yeah it works really good doesn't it yeah it actually works really well yeah it's like the hardest part about yeah we do some of that stuff too and like you know you can you can write um it can write captions for you and um because you're sometimes your hashtags because sometimes the creative just juice like it's going to run out sometimes you know it's like you've been staring at I'm sure you overthink it yeah yeah like our media team I'm sure it can relate to this like you're just staring at one piece of content all day it's like oh my gosh like I'm worn out already and I want to use more technology to do a better job as much as as I can that's that's right that's the best thing you know and there are some things that technology can't replace like craftsmanship and experience all this stuff but um but you know writing a caption right you know even even like there's tools that will even like edit photos for you like that's amazing that's incredible you know that's that's a Time Saver so yeah we're all about that like I want to get better sharper faster from every side that we can or like organization of like inventory you know organization of invoices you know like I'm there's like AI tools that they're putting together to be able to analyze like an Excel spreadsheet to summarize it and like tell you the summary like that's amazing you know so definitely like that's something that I think we'll see with time the business world will change the social media world will change I think it's gonna change for the better and I think we just have to be really open to that and like adopt it as as quickly as you can usually if you look at all these revolutions individuals that like like the computer the internet social media it's usually I think you know camps or groups of people that like are super resistant to it they always eventually get into it just later you know so that's kind of been like my observation but we'll see I don't know yeah I'd expect to be talking about AI Youtube, Podcast, Growth on uh podcast but yeah so that's kind of where we're at but yeah yeah it's been cool just for me just seeing how much you guys have uh grown even just since I started following you yeah 200 000 subscribers to 17 to 16. yeah something like that yeah yeah that's awesome yeah what's what's the next you know kudos to you thank your team you know that yeah they're amazing they are amazing what is the next plaque after a hundred thousand subscribers you get the Millie yeah after a million you get the gold one and then what's after that uh I think you get like a diamond or platinum or something at 10 million wow yeah amazing it's a lot of support a million is gold buttons Millions gold yeah wow that's incredible right yeah that's a lot of people yeah we're close well more than halfway there more than halfway there yeah good but like 600. hey you never know maybe by the end of this year maybe yeah I think it's I think it's possible yeah but you know then I'm just gonna want two million so it doesn't really matter it doesn't really matter yeah it's funny I because I I lost my first YouTube channel I had to start over yeah you told me I had like 200 000 yep subscribers and like you know back then it was like this this huge amount this you know I was like I can't believe and then oddly enough starting a second YouTube channel and doing it again it's kind of like uh I don't know taking a lot of the yeah excitement out of it well yeah but in a good way you know like you know a million would be cool but then I'm just gonna I've kind of learned at this point I'm always just gonna want more subscribers you know just like everybody else yeah it doesn't even matter I think it's finding balance and you should be happy to accomplish goals but it's not it's not ultimately everything you know and yeah instead it's just finding you know fulfillment and excitement in the journey but I think it's important to you know also try to think about like the you know trying to accept you know like okay I've gone far enough with this you know yeah I think it's fine I'm you know I'm happy with how things are yeah and if it keeps growing on its own yeah exactly you know and if it if it pauses or something or not even in pause but if it's not as extreme okay like I'm okay with that you know and so yeah and also your main business I guess is really it's it's sappy and your tree work it's the YouTube channel is almost kind of like a support yeah kind of kind of a bonus yeah it's more of a bonus yeah you know and it's just something like I just fill my regular job so it's you know and now I have an editor so I sent him the footage and he so it's like not really that much more work to make the YouTube videos it's amazing that's been helpful too getting my head out of it because I tend to like overthink things if I spend you know 20 hours editing a video yeah like really you know overthinking everything yeah and you know uh Outsourcing that has actually really helped me just kind of like yeah if the video does well it does well if it doesn't it doesn't you know yeah which is which is nice you know keeps your head stressed so much about it that's awesome that's smart cool so cool good man hey well this was nice yeah yeah when are you gonna post it post it so I think we're gonna probably start airing them like really soon so this one will be like the fourth one in the line because I have three before this one so probably in the next like month nice yeah so that would be cool yeah that'd be awesome this is going to be on Spotify it'll be on Apple podcast it'll be on Spotify and YouTube just as videos yeah on YouTube videos yeah so kind of all the platforms that we can get out on and like we'll do clips and shorts and stuff and um I try to keep this as like guest oriented as possible because it's like it's really interesting to hear just like you know we had a we had a central Craftsman guy on you know that's gonna be like the first one that we do that was like really really cool and so this was like very interesting hearing this side of the story I'd like to get more Industries and all that kind of stuff in on it so it's going to be really fun to just it's gonna be like a cauldron of like a Melting Pot of all this different stuff well you're in a really unique position because you know you you have kind of an interesting window into so many different working class big time you know jobs yeah yes how many people wear boots at work you know like everybody that has a you know like uh everybody that's blue collar basically is wearing boots yeah so I'm very excited about this yeah I think it's good and did I do a good job yeah yeah yeah it was really a really comfortable smooth yeah I really like the uh leather yeah this helps I think with calm the nerves it's hard not to pet it the whole time exactly that was the thinking so yeah no it's actually like the headphones too I got used to it in my life no no okay so you're putting it back on it's not funny to hear the sound of my voice yeah now I'm ready for Joe Rogan there you go exactly you know now you're prepped yeah like that was a big inspiration I think for me was was watching how he does it and he's just so natural about it and I think that's like that's the best I think that's the best one it's just open form and it's very like not structured I guess you could say and it's more fluid and organic I think that's super super good yeah way better than the like I can't stand the way journalists interview people or they're like yeah you know it's almost like an interrogation it's like rude it's you know they're very form oriented yeah yeah and then but yeah I love Joe Rogan he just talks to people yeah yeah and I think props to Joe Rogan because you have to be a pretty good conversationalist to do that and be pretty charismatic and like open and not that I'm comparing myself to Joe Rogan anyway but I definitely like want to be more that way because he's just very naturally good at that and so just it's just I think it's social sociability social ability and you know being more extrovert which I am and being a little bit more open and um not being like just being comfortable I think I think that's the big thing is being comfortable I think the reason podcasts are so explosive right now is because I think people really admire the human element and they actually enjoy like listening and learn coming from other people I think that's something we're going to see is like AI gets more and more popular is that the human Human Touch, Jobs After AI element is going to be a lot more valuable um so things that are actually done by people and came from people that value is going to rise and it's like human-made labels on things honestly that might happen probably really funny you know like made by a person made by hand made by human you know like that sounds funny it's almost like Terminator you know yeah yeah but I think that it's going to be a it's going to be cool because all the mundane things will be done by technology things that like I don't know like even something like okay like like cleaning up you know janitorial like eventually they're probably going to have I think I've already seen it they like it like cleans a bathroom like they you close it closes the door and like sprays everything like cleans the whole bathroom everything like think simple things like the editing editing something you know like um even like proofreading you know and like um book editors and journalists stuff like that's probably there's probably an amplifier it's like mundane stuff will get taken care of but then the human element comes in and it's like things like things like podcasts things like movies things like music and art and um craftsmanship I think you know a person coming out to do a job a person coming out to you know planning a house building it you know somebody making the blueprints somebody framing this like I think just everything that's can be done by people will just raise in value so much because it's like oh wow like this was done by a person it's creative it's Unique it's different you know so like I don't think we're probably going to have robots or AI to replace tree workers because that's like oh maybe you know that's kind of crazy I mean we have a lot of machines that cut trees you know but you need people to operate them exactly and so what I've seen in the tree industry is like the machines are becoming more popular so instead of having yeah two ground guys you have one ground guy in an Avant you're like a machine that drives around and I was talking to you right yeah and so you know but so it's you know which is a more High skilled job I also think we're overestimating how good technology here's what I mean um there still is always going to be a human element involved in every even Ai and technology stuff because there has to be you know also like laws and things like that like government they're like there there's there's gonna be restrict like it you can't it's not just going to become this Terminator Utopia like overnight people are always worried about you know uh technology taking over I mean people talked about that 100 years ago just you know factories are gonna put Factory workers right and that never happened yeah because you know okay so this job doesn't exist anymore but now people have podcasts or make YouTube exactly like there's new jobs new opportunities are always popping up yeah and so some people lose their job it's tragic but it's you know I mean you just have to know that you don't know the jobs that don't exist yet right they're going to be exactly exactly so that's kind of my mentality more optimistic and I think open and I think that's right I think that's healthy and I really like Gary vaynerchuk do you know Gary vaynerchuk is garyvee on Instagram he's like a business influencer type guy and he's super positive and he always talks about this principle and you know just be open be optimistic and look for the next opportunity uh and you know I I even even saying to look for this I would only I wouldn't be worried period and in general at all but I would say again it's only going to be these extremely like super super super mundane things like for example I think it sounds funny but like one of the jobs that was like went extinct was like a um telephone operator so like you would call into the base then the person correct you you know like okay like that's really really mundane but because telephones and lines and cell phones well then someone had to go make telephone lines and connect them to homes and run them across the country and yeah sometimes get around the Verizon calls exactly when the Verizon call center blueprints like so jobs change so not those people were out of work they just they're just jobs just transition yeah you know I mean they used to have I think a thread somewhere they had 300 000 horses in in New York City in the year 1900 you know I think about how many jobs don't exist anymore that were you know you know people make cars exactly now it's different I think like everything media is going to increase like drastically you know I think like videographers photographers editors um media media media is only going to grow and get bigger I don't think I think AI is going to help I don't think it's going to circumvent or replace because again the human element so like I think that side of it is a big you know podcast movies YouTube then the more people that get into that it actually opens up more opportunity and it increases wages in the jobs that people don't want to do so much that aren't so you know lavish so for you know I was surprised so you know doing tree work like if you need to hire a ground guy you know somebody to chip branches it can be really hard to find somebody for that job and then you know so when I hired an editor I put the word out hey I'm looking for an editor I was shocked at how many how many people wow they're actually people want to do this job you know yeah they want to do chip hate yeah I need help with this tree job nobody wants to do it but people actually want to do those jobs but that just means that you know tree services are forced to pay more to try to incentivize people to do those jobs that's funny so it just means you have to be more competitive yeah and it's probably also just the gym generation I think too yeah yeah younger people they want to do they want to be influencers or you know they want to yeah do sit in a coffee shop Media stuff shop on a laptop yeah I know I always think that's funny like any coffee shop I go into it's like there's just people in here on their computers like yeah what are they all doing and they're all doing yeah exactly I'm in here to get a cup of coffee and get out and it's like there's just full every table is full of like everyone's like or maybe they're just killing time it'd be funny to just walk up to somebody just ask them what are you what are you not doing you know it's probably can do this at your house students or something you know I think it's it's about The Vibes you know that's that's the important they use You Gotta Have A vibe and there's a coffee shop Vibe and you're more I think there's some kind of study done like when you're in this kind of environment it's like more productive or something when you're around other people that are being productive you are more productive you know there's some I'm sure there's something too that probably fewer distractions you know like maybe if you're if you're writing your essay at the coffee shop you're not good enough to check the fridge every 10 minutes probably yeah yeah getting Outro distracted or turning on the TV yeah that's funny cool man thanks for coming on Jake really appreciate it it's my pleasure yeah this is good and I think we'll probably you know we'll probably do another update once sometime later yeah that'd be that'd be great and then I'll ask you if you you got your million dollar million subscriber or gold yeah yeah we'll see thanks for tuning in guys this was Jacob Rogers guilty of treeson go check out sappysupplies.com and also go to his YouTube channel guilty of treason that's t-r-e-e-s-o-n and this was walking with JK boots thanks for tuning in guys see on the next one