Unlocking Creativity and Positivity with Jessica Hische

And I was feeling super cool about it and it made me wanna go out and I'm gonna buy myself skis. I'm a grownup. I don't change sizes now so I can own skis. And I bought season passes for next year. 'cause they're super cheap if you buy them the year before. And yeah, so that's one thing that's my li that's my life thing I'm excited about. my work thing I'm excited about is, um.

I've been building this thing called Studio Works with my friend Chris Shiflet. And, uh, Sean and Nick are two super bro developer folks. And, uh, it's been epic and really fun to work on and I feel like my brain is now, I'm like, you know that meme where it's like the like shriveled head guy and then it's bigger and then it's like self-actualization guy. I feel like that's.

Me, uh, and uh, and then I launched this week a, online community for it that I didn't tell anyone about before I launched it. So it was like a surprise. And that's been super fun. And there's already like three, like almost 400 people in it and it's been really active and we're doing like Zoom hangs and people are sharing resources and posting events and stuff and it's really cool. I'm just really happy.

So I just wanna get a bunch of students in there so I can just be everybody's big sister and just be answering all their little questions

cause there's not really good casual hangs. And you know, even on all the fun, uh, texty places like Blue Sky and all that, everyone's like kind of bummed out and wants to talk about being bummed out and wants to talk about being worried about stuff. And I just wanna hang out and not be bummed out for a little while. That's my goal.

And then that just like is so intimidating and doesn't really work and mostly just makes people crumble and feel upset and everybody forgets that actually just like the small positive things that you can do, including just like protecting your own mental health and helping other people protect theirs. That ends up making an actual difference in the world because people that are crushed by. Depressing things or full of anxiety about the estate of everything.

What they don't do is take any action to make it better. They just crawl into a hole and feel bad. And that's, I mean, that's kind of the default way to do it, but if you feel like resort like full of resources and you feel capable, you're much more likely to go, oh man, you know, like, I'm done with my work right now. What can I do to like do a helpful thing or make a thing that like impacts other people or donate to a thing or volunteer for a thing or whatever.

Like you need to feel whole in order to do those things. And so I think it's actually just really important to make people focus on positive local community stuff instead of just spending all of their time looking at the big picture doom and gloom, because there's always big picture doom and gloom to look at.

It just vibrates out. It just burns off into the ether. That's like, that's how I view it. It's just this, this anxious, vibrating energy that doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't do anything. It's just, it's

So it's almost like you have to control what you let in so that you can actually still maintain the ability to do something about it, you know? I was at an event recently called um, Paradiso, which is put on by one of the founders of Off. Stefan Sagmeister gave a talk there, and I've seen him talk a million, billion times, but it was a talk about, a recent, like project sabbatical project that he did called now is better.

and he basically just because so many people around him were talking about how we're living in terrible times and all these terrible things were happening, he decided to sort of do a research project about like, what is terrible, like, like, you know, like. Let's look at the data of like all of the stuff. And it basically is just like, now is the best possible time to exist.

And the thing that was really interesting about it is he was on like a, uh, a podcast or like the news interview or something and they were like, yeah, but how do you, people in Ukraine probably feel about that? And he was like, yeah, well what if you're being like actively bombed? Obviously, like it's hard to say like, now's the best time. But what ended up happening is a bunch of folks in the Ukraine reached out to him and asked him to like put on a show of this work.

And he said of all of the places that the show ended up being, the best response was in the Ukraine. 'cause they just like needed hope and positivity so much. And so, I mean that's just like amazing. Like, I mean, it's one data point, but it's like really good proof that like when you're. You're the most receptive to like hope when you're going through tough stuff, you know, like that's when you really reach for it. That's why people get religious when they get cancer and all kinds of stuff.

You're like reaching out for like, what is the positive I can find in this?

And deprive ourselves or we're like, I, I feel like the overwhelming majority of people are like waiting for moment of calm to, to be able to claim that or to be able to pursue that. And it's like it ain't coming like you, it like,

Like it's all, it's all that. but the, the thing that I, that I return to, which is very similar to what you're talking about, is, and this is the kind of quote that I'm working on, uh, which is that some people are born to save the world and some people are born to show us why the world is worth saving. And so it's like the same thing of like, you need to see the beauty in the world in order to have the, like, fortitude to save it and, and the desire to save it.

'cause why would you wanna save a shitty place? You know, like you have to believe this is a good place to save it.

So if you posted 10 things and eight of them were positive and two of them were negative, people got a really good understanding about what your life was like, right? But now if you post those same 10 things, the likelihood of people seeing the positive stuff is way less. So they're much more likely to see the negative stuff and then get a false idea of what your reality is. So it actually changes the way that you.

Look at the things that you share because you're like, oh, if I share these negative things too often or you know, like I won't say at all. 'cause I think it's important to share some, but it actually will end up not only coloring your view of your own life, but also coloring other people's view of your life. And I think that it sort of forces you into this thing of looking at all the positives and posting those, but not necessarily in like a, a way that needs to be about projecting a falsity.

You know, it's actually about projecting what is the truth. 'cause the truth is actually that you had an overwhelming positive amount of stuff to say, and the negative stuff was a small portion of that. And so it makes you actually notice that a lot more.

You, you are like, you are like, I will show them, and, and you're using it as a, as a lens to be more conscious of your actions rather than just falling prey to the affordances of those things, which is just, yeah, the negativity, snowball, and like, yeah, we're all gonna dog pile on to, to get out there and throw an overwhelmingly unabashed, enthusiastic, fun, funny thing that's a freaking act of resistance right there.

It just all goes away and, or at least it does for the few of us that have reached that top of the pyramid feeling great. Um, but like there were so many things. That I would've seen as like dorky or cringe or whatever, that now I'm like, anytime that I get like a cringe reaction in my body, it feels like a moment where I have to do like personal work to like work through the cringe.

Instead of that, it's about like being anti, the other thing, it's actually like I'm grateful for this, for pointing out this cringe reaction that I now have to like work through and break up because it's bad to have that reaction. And so when I see people in the world that have like zero, like cringe reaction, I'm just like, these are the ascendant humans. Like these are the ones that have made it to the top. Yeah.

I have this idea for a big art installation in fact, one second I got props. this, I went to Goodwill Live, laugh, love, give, let

It's like, laugh, love, my God. That's like some of the most profound shit that like, it's, it's the truth. It's right in front of

Like, like, uh, that's I think one of the, the, the most unfortunate side effects of like the first generation of like social media is that there ended up being this like cynicism that took root, that it's like, you can't actually like something, or we can't, like, we gotta find the angle. Like, let me, I don't like this being up here. I gotta take it down a notch or two. It's like, let's like who, who says, you know, like, when did

Like, if someone's mean, everyone kind of has like a, that person must be going through some stuff, you know, like whatever. And I love this, and I hope that that's not just like a Bay Area regional thing, because obviously like I'm in a bubble. And so it's a different, different situation here, but. I don't know, like it was so cool to be mean when we were teenagers and in our twenties and like the mean kids always seemed to like rise to the top of the pile.

And if it's not cool to be mean anymore, that'd be great. That'd be so great for everyone.

but I, but I would have to think there is some semblance of, let's say like mental health being more of like a front and center thing that's like a, like that's a live thing. There's like, I think a lot more of like the psychology well, positive psychology, but just an understanding of psychology in general. Like it's no longer, like the first like hundred years of, of psychology was just all like weird Freud stuff and like all this like very like pathological stuff.

And I feel like we are now living in a moment where kids are growing up with like some, like, my daughter comes home from school, I'm sure your kids are the same way, where it's like, there's some stuff that's just like really good emotional intelligence stuff and just like good, like holistic, like wellbeing kind of stuff. And my

what's like the biggest thing that your kids have, like, taught you about the emotional landscape or the, the, the spiritual realm or like what? Like, because the lens by which kids exist.

Because my oldest, who is not that, she definitely is much more introverted. She like straight up, like will just be unresponsive to adults that are talking to her. So like if someone gives her a compliment or something, she just kind of stone faces them and I'll like talk to her about it afterwards and be like, Hey, you know, like it's okay for you to like give a response back or like show some emotion in your face, like when people say a nice thing to you or whatever.

And then she was just like, what if I don't want to. And I was like, it's totally fine. You know, like, that's on you. Uh, but she'll also like, we'll go to a, we went to like a craft fair or whatever, and George, who's five will like walk up to some lady their booth and be like, I love the earrings you make. These are the most beautiful bracelets I've ever seen. You know, like, and just be like really engaging with her. And then she's just like, take them, take them all.

Like, she just like gives him stuff. And then Ramona will walk away and be like, be like, how come I didn't get any free stuff? And people always give George free stuff. And I was like, 'cause George looks at people and makes them feel good. Like, if you walk out to people and make them feel nice, they wanna give you things. So like, even if that's not a natural thing that you wanna do, know that that is a useful tool that you can have with other people.

And so that's been really interesting to sort of see that play out in like real ways. And then, um, my middle, is also a very different person. Like he's also like a big goofball and a big clown or whatever, but he's also crazy sensitive. So he's both that like introverted sensitive kid, but also like a loud performer, like always the jokester, like trying to like, you know, be the, the, the show iest one.

And it's just been really interesting to see both my and Russ's personality traits come out in different ways in them. And then also basically both of us being like, well, I guess literally everyone in the family has a DHD and just has a different flavor of it because we're just seeing like, you see what the kids are doing and what they're going through and being like, oh, that's that you have that version, and I have this version, and that's why that one does that.

And so we're just, it's very, like, the thing that's really interesting is that we feel like such a unit, like, you know, like I feel like any, we just like hang out and everybody gets along really well. And I think it's because we're all like. Just neurodivergent in our own ways and so we all really get each other, you know? And, uh, that's been really interesting to just like be in a household full of people that kind of all have a similar, you know, affectation. So

And, there's something there where it's like you can just have that unspoken, you all know you're, you're built the same, you're wired the same, or you have your own, you know, equilibrium, your own like kind of family organism kind of vibe, and you're just able to enjoy it, lean into it. I think that's beautiful. That's amazing. So yeah, you, you have like a real stark contrast between. Like unbounded enthusiasm and exuberance with this. Like,

And so we're in the process of doing that because it's very clear that like all the, like she's just not happy because she just doesn't have enough happy juice going on and just wants to eat candy all the time and doesn't sleep very well and is moody blues and I just don't want her to be moody blues.

But at, but at the same time it's okay. It's just, you know, it's, it's genes and, and it's wiring, but it's like you could sort it out. And the fact that there's this, like you said, like born at this time to these people is such a gift. And we, we talk about it all the time that it's like we know, not to just be like, what's wrong with you? Just, you know, sit down and shut up or, you know, like, don't be

And I had, I just had to lean in and a friend of mine was like, let me just put it this way. No one ever has a second baby without an epidural. They might do it the first time and then the second time they're like, Nope, let's just go for it.

And I think there's this like thing where we feel like we have to try the absolute hardest way to do something first, because we see the medication as a cop out when really it's like all of those hard things don't actually get you to, it's like a constant maintenance cycle.

You know, like my mom also had like mental health stuff when I was growing up and has dealt with like, she has very severe A DHD clearly, but she's undiagnosed and um, had a bunch of depression and all kinds of things and she was like, yeah, the only thing that worked for me was like. Intensely exercising for two to four hours per day. And I was like, who can do that?

You know, like, like, you know, like there are things you can do to like solve the problem, like mostly where you can get yourself like 70 to 80% there, but it involves like gargantuan lifestyle changes that don't necessarily mesh with modern life or having a job or having kids and all that.

And so you do what you can to like mitigate things, but also like, I feel like people just cut themselves off from the ability to actually like solve these problems in a much more like easy way by just like trying out rebalancing your brain chemicals, you know? Because I think there's just this whole thing of like, yeah, I mean, I thought for sure it was gonna totally, I. Change who I like, change my personality or something.

And I just feel like, oh my God, look, I am like back to being my best self that I was like before I started having crazy hormone problems or uh, or like my best self when I wasn't being triggered by anxiety and was getting great sleep and was doing whatever. I'm not getting great sleep, but my brain is like in the same place as if I am. But yeah.

It's a, it seems like more deliberate and, and designed and whatever, but

Like I, if I feel like I'm in a yoga class all day when I'm on it and when I'm not on it, I'm like, Ooh, what about that? Ooh, what about that? No, what we should do, we should do that. Oh, we should do that. And it just like non-sequitur jump, jump junk I, I get that. If you're not like us, uh, or me, then it makes you psychotically wired. But like, I get way crazier of a wiry effect from caffeine than I do from Ritalin. Ritalin does not make me wired at all.

I don't get wired, but like, if I have two cups of coffee, I'm like, like crazy buzzy.

But I like, I like what you're saying that there is a, there, there's like a clarity in your tendencies. I 'cause like, it's not like a diminishment. Of,

And that's what the medicine, in my view, like for, for me personally, the medicine keeps the hummingbird moving towards actual feeders have actual nutrients in it versus just like flitting around going here, there, and everywhere. It's like it's a focusing effect, but it doesn't diminish the spirit.

But that happens so rarely that it's not worth living my life for that. You know what I mean? Like when in the, in the prior days I was, when I could be in control of my own time, I would just like hop from project, project, project, project to like make, keep the, um, enthusiasm going. And so like the whole procrast working thing was basically just a big A DHD coping mechanism.

Um, but now that I'm a parent and my, and my work days are more contained and I, and it's a little unpredictable about whether or not I can go into that hyperfocus mode or not, I need to make sure that when I'm at my office that I'm not being diverted because the diversions aren't helpful anymore. Like, those are really helpful when you're working like 14 hours a day and you can just like divert and then divert and then divert.

But when you're only working for like six to nine hours a day, then the, the diversions are like an absolute wrench thrown into the whole thing. And so. Yeah. I mean, and also too, like the, the other thing that I found is like, is similar to the four hours of exercise thing, like. My thing is I am so much less anxious if I can just like be in perpetual motion, like working on stuff, you know, like that. I always have something to do. You know, I'm a very busy person.

I just have to like keep busy, keep busy, keep moving forward like a shark, you know, like just have to keep moving. Otherwise, I feel like I'm gonna die. And when I don't have the capacity to do that all the time, my anxiety builds up and so. What, and that's because all that energy that I would've been spending on all of those outlets is building up and doesn't have a place to go. And so the taking a stimulant, like taking the Ritalin, what it does is it dissipates that energy that's built up.

And so I think like. If I could live, like there's probably a world in which I'm no longer on stimulants when I'm not so on top of the kids or traveling or like whatever. Like if I can just do what I want all the time, I probably don't need it as much. But I feel like now what it really does is just help that energy disperse so that I, that doesn't turn into horrible anxiety. 'cause like that's what it feels like to me.

And a friend of mine was like, 'cause I was kind of back and forth about whether or not I should try stimulants and she was like, dude, don't, don't sleep on how much it can impact anxiety. Like if you're like an an anxious person. It had the biggest impact for me in terms of anxiety more so than taking S-S-R-I-S-N-R-I and I, and I found that to be really true. Like, you know, like the, I definitely feel like the SNRI.

What that does is kind of like, not have me in these weird, like false reality shifts where I like have a false belief about what's going on. Because like every now and then you kind of like have that sort of like, wait, what is, what was that about? You know, like the, those kind of feelings and I, and those just don't happen anymore. And I think it's because I'm like way more leveled out because of the SNRI.

But in terms of just that like low hum of anxiety that kind of builds and builds and builds, the, the stimulants are what? Knock that out. Like if I, if I'm feeling kind of like ugh in the afternoon and I take a little boost of the Ritalin, I'm just like, ah, now I feel good. Now I can do stuff. Yeah.

They're like, yeah, I tried that and. Didn't work. Uh, and it's like, well, on. Like, it's like this, this binary kind of thing. It's like, it's like you,

Like, I, I, again, like, I feel like a lot of the conversations that I have with people that are or pushing back on that are like, they're like, no, but I like wanna stay in that like, low hum anxiety state, or I wanna feel like that energy's building up with nowhere to go. And you're like, but do you like, it's, it's like, what,

And with therapy it's also like, like therapy as an adult is so hard because our brains are like rigid stone structures, right? We've like built these pathways over and over and over again. We've walked the same roots over and over again in terms of our thought patterns. So trying to like unmake those walkways is so fucking hard.

It's like, it's like you're in, it's like you're on a trail in the woods and there's a trail that has been walked for centuries and you're now starting to walk down a slightly different trail that has not been walked for centuries. And of course, everything wants to divert down the centuries long path for a very long time. And it just takes so much time to build that new path.

And that's why like the whole, uh, psychedelic assisted stuff is really cool because it does allow you to like make those deep new pathways much quicker. yeah, I mean like, I loved therapy, but it took four years to like unmake some bad mental pathways of behaviors. Like it was the slowest, most arduous, most not noticeable thing in the whole world. And it worked. And it's like, because I did it, it's gonna stick 'cause I did the hard thing.

And the, and the pathways are there versus trying to like race to a good answer and then it can just bounce right back to the, to the old ways. But it's, I mean, who can commit to that? It was like $175 a week for four years. That's like, you know, it's like five or six grand a year. You know, like it's not, nothing. Like not everybody can do that,

And it's, it's funny you brought up the psychedelic speak, whatever you're talking about, the two to four hours of exercise the same thing. It's like that's, that's immediately where my head went is it's like, oh yeah, you could do years of talk therapy or going to meditate these intensive multi-day meditation retreats and spend a year long, like years long practice. It's like, or this way that hook will help you jump those neural canyons a lot fast.

Of course, it's a beautiful day. Like whatever.

But I had this issue I don't have like the best memory because I think I went through some like tricky yucky stuff when I was a teenager, and I just like don't have great recall for a lot of my, like young memories. But what, but I have incredibly vivid dreams almost all the time. Like my dreams are very real and I do a lot. I know that I'm dreaming sometimes, you know, where I can be like, you know, in the dream and I'm, I feel like I'm just watching it like a movie.

Um, yeah, it's like lucid dreaming. I don't necessarily have control in the dream, but I'm like aware that I'm dreaming and it's just because my sleep is like so yucky that I'm sort of in REM a lot. And what happened from the mushrooms? And this wasn't like while on mushrooms. This just happened for like weeks following. Is that. My brain started to mix in memories and details of memories into my vivid dreams.

So then I couldn't tell if the dream was like a thing that happened or if it was a dream, and that felt really scary. And so I was like, I need to stop doing this. And that's when I went on SNRIs instead, I was just like, you know, regular medicine is also great for managing your mental health and let's do that instead.

but I think it's more, I think it was more like understanding that I was capable of joy, like that kind of joy again, you know? And it didn't have to be because of like getting a little, like having a little bit too much alcohol and feeling that like tipsy, like extroversion thing. I was like, oh, like. this is like straight up joyful wonder. And the fact that you can experience that as an adult is amazing. And I was like, I need to figure out how to have more of that.

Like, however that happens, because I think you kind of forget. 'cause like kids are always like, that's crazy. Like for everything. And you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You just don't know yet. Like, you know. But yeah, I mean, it, it was, I do think that that stuck with me. I think it, it made me feel like prioritizing that was a real priority, you know, like. That finding that was something I really needed to focus on.

it's sort of that thing of like when, when stuff's going weird mentally, you don't really realize that, that it wasn't good until you're out of it and then you're like, oh wow, that was actually worse than I thought that it was. You know, like, and so once you're out of it, you're, you have much more perspective. And it's always so hard to know because it's such a slow build to get to like the bad part. And I think a lot of us get to a part that's bad, but, but we're still functional.

Like you're still totally capable of like doing work and taking care of your kids and doing whatever. It's just you are just like a robot doing those things, you know? It's just you're going through the motions and you're not doing stuff because it makes you stoked. You're just doing it because it's like another thing on your calendar. And yeah, and it was really nice to get outta that mode.

and frankly I think like as I've grown older and reconnected with things like music and art, I'm like, oh, that's what that is for. That's what it's for. Like I always was like, oh, I like to make pictures and I like to make music. And that's fun.

I. And now I, what I'm realizing with especially like kind of coming outta covid, going to those like first concerts post COVI, you are taken to that place, that, that, that, that same place that you're describing with, with psychedelics and there's like, it is, it is a real presence. It is a real joy. There's a sense of connectedness, there's a sense of elevation, there's a sense of, of like, we're all standing in this room together, sharing this experience.

And after being robbed of that for several years, that hit me like a ton of bricks. And, and just like you're saying to, to, to focus there is, I mean, why we're talking now on this, the, the show that's kind of like dedicated, I think to this attitude and I, it, and it's like there's a real importance that I think. need to be reminded of. And that's what, that's what the arts are for.

That's what these things that aren't part of your just everyday lived experience, that, that running through the motions, that's, that is where the trap can lie.

Even for creative professionals like us, like, or for people that, like we, we flex these muscles more than a lot of people, but it's like, yeah, I mean it's such like a, a trope, but at the same time it's like, yeah, people get in their car and they go commute to work and then like the next thing, you know, like 15 years them by and they're just like, wait, what, what, what was I doing? Right?

And that's where I think that those why the arts. are so important. Uh, and, and there are other ways to it, but I do feel like there are these just different modalities or different, different ways jolting us out of our, our normal routine that end up that kind of shift off of the normal walking path and, and into a place or at least has us reevaluating or evaluating like, wait, why am I on this path? Am I, am I enjoying this, this journey?

Or, or does this just feel, I feel stuck or do I feel like, do I feel okay or do I feel great? kind of bringing this all back to like the people sort of like bathing in the, in the guilt and bathing into despair and in the doom scrolling and all of that stuff. You don't get that time back. You don't get that time back. And as the, the, the days have turned into months have turned into years and are now turning into decades.

The people waiting for permission to reclaim that joy and reclaim happiness. It's like you, you lost it. Like you l you allowed yourself to lose this point, since 2016, almost a decade of your life to, uh, other people's shitty attitude and other people's shitty ways of being. And I, and I get it. It's like, it's bad, it's wrong and whatever.

There's a lot of concerning things and that's, I think maybe something I'd love to like pick at with you is just like, 'cause I've, I fall into this, this trap a little bit, or not a trap, but like, something that I try to reconcile is that this kind of positivity, optimism, hope, all of the good things that we've been talking about Can't come across as, as, as like dismissive or uncaring for the, the real hard things happening in the world, happening in society, happening even in our own lives.

Right. And it's like, I know that isn't true. And, and I could feel it in my bones that it's not true that I care very deeply about all of this stuff. In fact, I, I feel that this is, as we've already kind of covered, it's like this is an important way to fight that. But like, I'm curious if you feel that at all, like where it's like this, like you feel so juxtaposed against the negative that it, it almost feels like,

You know, like everybody's got their thing that has triggered them, that has like lit the fire in them of like, this is my thing. This will not stand. I must be for this thing. And I think it's just important to remember that each person has the cause that they are the most excited to fight against, you know? And so I think with like the positivity thing, the biggest thing for me is focusing on local, immediate community stuff. Because I think that.

My, my big thing right now is that like all of this work from home post Covid stuff has like destroyed all local businesses.

You know, like it's just had such an immense impact of local communities, of how people get together, of people's connectivity to each other and all that I wanna do because I know I can have an immediate impact that not only makes other people's life better, but it makes my life better and it makes my kids' life better by just being way more engaged in my local community and trying to create initiatives around getting the local community to like be more connected and involved.

And then what happens then from that is that like. Local communities stand strong against larger communities, against the largest communities. So like that's why it can feel really good to be in California because everybody in California just sort of agrees like, Hey, fuck all that. Like we, if we have to, we'll just be an island unto ourselves. And you just kind of have this understanding that we all are in this. And that we are not gonna let that corrupt us or whatever.

And it has to do with the fact that this smaller community feels aligned against this bigger or bad thing, you know? And I think that's, so that's my, that's where I'm at. But like everybody is really different. You know, like if you have a family member that's been personally affected by something, if you have been personally affected by something, you're gonna have a really different approach to, like how to deal with all this.

And I think the, the thing that gets tricky is when people try to assign a value scale to the things that people are upset about or are kicked up about, or care about, you know, like by saying, oh, well you don't, you're not putting all your effort into this other thing that is way more important. Therefore, what you are doing doesn't have value. And that's just not true. You know, like you are gonna be the most effective when fighting the fight that you care about.

And so, like, don't try to fight the fights that you don't all the way care about right now. You still care about them, but they're just not the top fight. And so just, we only have so much time, and so you have to just pick the fight that you're gonna win. So pick the fight that you're ready to fight.

If you are committed yourself fully to, you know, uh, gun control or women's rights, that means that you're not committing your full self to preservation of coral reefs. If you're preserving the coral reefs, that means that you're not fighting gun control. Like there, there is only so much of you, but like, because we are just inundated, inundated and it's just so loud and so noisy. And I think it's a lot of that sentiment is coming from a place of, I feel this in my body.

I feel this in my soul. know this to be important. And that sentiment is a reflection of their, their reaction to it. So it's, it's understandable, but it's not understandable to expect other people to do it.

But it's like, so, so that I, I. My, my take on it is it's like everyone has to do their own work, and that often involves taking a step away from the noise machine in order to reconnect with, with their values and what their life experience and what their skills and unique gifts and, and, passions and enthusiasms are. And then. will have a, a greater sense of clarity and purpose to be able to sort of move the needle forward.

And the surprising and kind of cool thing is that there will be byproducts of that that will end up rippling out into these other fields. Like if it's all grounded in, in love, ultimately, these things are interconnected. These, all of these systems, all living things are interconnected. And that, like, it really does require all of us moving and, and hitting things from our respective angles to make a difference to, to, to, to show up.

Like if we all pick a lane, it means that the rest of the lane's atrophy and, and bad things happen. So it really does require this, this idea of, um, I was just talking to somebody that the, the word, I don't even know if it's real, but istic is, is what we're describing here, is this like. Show up there, there is a pluralism to how we show up. And we could all sort of express our virtues. We could all build love, we could all build community, we could all help in our own ways.

that like your way is going to be different than my way. And that's okay. So long as we're all, good things together. Like that's, that's it. And I think we could appreciate that. Like we, we could learn to appreciate that.

But the issue is, is that it takes a lot of people, a lot of time to come up with a plan, and then they have to start rolling out the plan, and they roll out the plan bit by bit. But as they're rolling out the plan, there's other groups that are going, this plan isn't happening fast enough. We're gonna put together another new plan of how to address this system. And then everyone goes, you're right. That's not happening fast enough. Because 5% of that first plan has only rolled out.

So then a new plan, plan goes into place that then starts from zero. And what happens is when people do this, when people try to always address it from the top down, they're putting forth these huge systemic changes and only getting 10 to 15%. Done. And then all of a sudden everybody has a big rebellion and says Not enough is happening. So it never gets to a hundred percent. Whereas if you just tackle small problems bit by bit and just work through them, you can actually get stuff done.

And so like, I think that's another thing to remember is like that all this stuff that we're talking about is just about like taking action now and setting yourself up in a way to take action. You know, like building up your personal reserves, getting yourself kicked up about a thing, doing a thing that you can have immediate impact on, even if it's small. And understand that many small things equals one big thing. You know?

Because a lot of times when you try to do one big thing, It's really difficult to roll out that whole thing because people always wanna come up with the new big thing. They wanna be in charge of the new big thing they want, you know, like everybody's got different ideas of what the new big thing should be and it's just really hard to do that.

And it just, you just see it over and over again where people have these really grand plans and they never get a chance to actually actualize them because be because everyone's impatient. And by the time they start rolling it out, other people are like, well, clearly this wasn't working. We've gotta rethink it all.

It's really like the big focus now is. How do I set myself up financially so that I can do more things that are more fun, like both workwise and lifewise, you know, mostly workwise because a lot of, you know, the higher paying projects are you working in a silo? It's a, it's for like a big commercial thing or whatever.

And the more fun things are things that don't always pay the best, things that are more like collaborations than they are, client projects or, volunteerism through design and work and that kind of thing. And I feel like I always want to do those things, but have a hard time balancing it against needing to earn an income for my family and stuff like that.

So just really trying to figure out the way to make it so that I can do more of those things in five years and I can make more of my life's focus around that, you know, like.

That I, it's not just about like donating money to local organizations and more just about like, what can I do to actually do things like, you know, can I turn studio works into, uh, have a nonprofit where like I take my salary and anything that goes beyond that goes into a nonprofit that goes towards local arts organizations or towards, you know, grants or whatever, you know, like a way to help sustain everybody else. You know, I feel pretty strongly about like.

Local retail and things like that and how difficult it is. It's like just almost impossible. It would be amazing to just like be able to have some sort of program to help people do small scale retail. Be knowing that it's not really a big money maker, you know, that it's just like a thing that you have to do, or like, if you wanna do it, it's not meant to be like your next career 'cause it's really difficult to succeed at.

Um, but that, those things are really amazing for local culture and also just for personal reasons. And so, I don't know, just like try and I, I wanna figure out a way to like take all the skills that I've learned and resources that I have and help other people with them. But I also know that I need the financial ability to do that. And I don't wanna be reliant on other people.

You know, like I don't want it to be like setting up a thing where there's donors and then board members and blah, blah, blah. Because I like it just, I don't know, I just feel like people with lots of money always screw things up. So.

like tick that box so that you could free up your, your mental, you know, spiritual energy to, to do more worthwhile things. It's, it's, it's money is a tool in that respect that can be wielded to unlock many good things.

They have to charge a lot for things like permits to do things or whatever, to like make up for the fact that they just like bleed money over all sorts of stuff. So it's just like, there's certain organizations where like more money does not equal more effectiveness. And actually, like I.

I'm just saying that like, if you're thinking about direct contributions to people, there's probably some really smart ways to set that up where it actually does have like a really big short-term impact on both them and the community.

You know, like one of the things that I was thinking about doing and this was just, this is sort of a down the line pipe dream in, in terms of doing something that's a more nonprofit thing, is setting up a fund that people can apply to to host local events like community events. So it's basically like you, you get a grant to do a community event, which then unlocks the community in terms of their like presence with local retail and other restaurants and all that kind of stuff.

So it's less about like giving money to a person to do a thing and more about like, if you are doing a community related event, we will help you file all your paperwork and we will give you money to like set to do rentals and, and permits and like whatever, like that kind of thing. Um, so it's like thinking about ways where the money goes towards something that's very immediate and actionable and has ripple out impact on the other local businesses and not just on that one person's business.

But, but I guess like, kind of like back to, let's say like personal finances though. So hard to grieve with all of that stuff, and that sounds great and I'm looking forward to you making that. But also like whe when it comes to like your like personal.

Financial situation and it's like, okay, you got a family and there's that, there's that kind of like balancing act that tends to happen where it's like, okay, like what's our obligation to provide stability for our own family versus like the, the world at large and community at large. And obviously like as your financial situation changes, so does that balance Right?

But I like what you were saying earlier, 'cause it's, it's almost like, it's not even about like the money, like where do I point my money? You're, I think you're really describing like, where do I point my energy and how could I free up my energy by way of just kind of like taking care of my personal financial situation. Getting that almost kind of out of the way so that you're free be able to exercise your and point your energy to these really important. Projects, right?

That, that maybe it's not that you can't trust other people with your money, but it's like, no, you, you have ideas, you have gifts, you have skills that

While I have the energy to do stuff, you know, like I'm 40, I feel like I'm gonna have a lot of energy until I'm like 55 or 60, and then I'm still gonna have energy, but it's gonna start to taper, you know? And I just feel like I've got these, like two decades of, of proper go get 'em energy. And then I, I just wanna do as much as I can during that time. I wanna be the person who makes a suggestion, then actually tries to do it.

You know, not the person who just like talks about it and tries to get someone else to do it that is not as invested as me or whatever, you know? And that's, that's really what it is, is like, it's not, I'm saying that I can do it better than someone, it's just like very few people have the ability and that attitude and the tenacity to actually do stuff. And I know that I'm one of those people, um, just because I love just hammering away at a thing and, and making it happen.

It's like, it's really thrilling to me. And so I wanted. Make myself more. I wanna be like, I want people to be able to use me in an effective way. I wanna be, I wanna be a resource to people, you know, like if they have a thing they wanna do, I'm like, how do we do it? Let me help you do it. And, but I do need to make sure that we're not like, freaking out financially as a family. Like, you know, 'cause I, you can't do that.

You can't like, give yourself to other people if you're not taking care of the people that you're in a, in a house with. And so that doesn't mean that I need to have like, crazy trust funds for the kids or whatever, but it means that I should probably start their college funds. Like, you know, one of them is 10 this year, so it's probably time to start a college fund, you know?

Uh, and like, not that it has to be all the way saved or anything, but you know that before I divert a lot of energy into another space, I probably have to make sure that my kids aren't complaining about me in therapy, uh, in 10 years time.

there's kind of like a reframing of like the selfishness, but Yeah. A hundred percent. Right. It's like there's a difference between that level of kind of pragmatic, like, I've got mouth to feed and kids to put through college and they have a trust fund and we have a, a yacht and, and whatever,

What if one of the kids has a problem? Like, you just don't know. I mean it, like all kinds of stuff can happen. So there always has to be buffer, but there's a real difference between like being practical and safe and planning for like potential hardship that might happen or might not happen versus like hoarding like money and sitting on top of a pile of emeralds. Like it's a very different thing, you know, like at a certain point everybody will be fine, like you can just start giving it away.

yeah, I mean, just getting to the point where everyone would be fine if I got knocked out or if Russ got knocked out or if one of the kids got knocked out or like whatever. Just like getting it to the point where we'd survive as a family. We wouldn't have to go bankrupt. We'd be able to like take care of. A big problem that happened and it wouldn't be an incredible hardship. That's all that I want.

And then anything, once we have that, those assurances, anything beyond that that doesn't need to get saved up, that's fine. That can go towards cool, helpful things.

Like, like you've already turned over a lot of stones, uh, in the creative realm, which is awesome. Um, and I guess like how do you see that breadth and depth, like how have, how have you, how do you describe that and how do you like, see that changing in the, in the coming decades? I.

And then also coming up with my own things, which usually have to do with me learning a little bit of a new skill and wanting a way to practically apply that skill or trying to like work in a certain way or think a certain way. And so it's like projects end up being the way that I'm like, oh, I really like doing this one thing, so I'm gonna come up with a way that I can do that thing for a while.

Um, and so that all is still gonna exist, but I think like I would, I do want to be a person who can like, loosen up a little bit more in terms of how I create and, you know, like. Try new things and get a little sloppy and get a little bit more experimental and maybe like exist in the world as a bit more of an artist and, and a bit less as a commercial artist designer.

Um, I don't know when, and if that'll happen, if it'll ever happen, like maybe things will just totally keep shifting and I'll just keep getting more and more like problem solving and pragmatic and whatever, like, who knows? But that's one path that it could go down. I'm not sure. I also would love to teach more 'cause I like, uh, being around young people and, uh, that's fun.

Like, I, I love that and I haven't been able to do that because I just have been too busy and haven't been able to pin down and whatever. So I wanna, I would love to do that more as I get older, and that would be really fun. Um, also just like hoarding uh, maker equipment and doing a lot of stuff with that and letting other people use all my maker equipment that's, that's big.

Like Russ wants like to get some sort of workshop space at some point when he doesn't have to work in tech anymore so that we can just like accrue a bunch of maker shit and just like let people use it. Um, I don't know. I feel like my, my thing for my whole career has just been about helping people. both myself and other people, helping them get unstuck and getting them excited to like, make stuff and not feel like it needs to be this whole intimidating thing.

And I feel like that's just gonna translate into different things as I get older. Like whether that's like I'm doing it through money ways, by setting up like scholarships or like whatever, or whether I'm doing that through youth programs or through arts programs or through like having a maker space that people have access to or like whatever. It's just about like, how do I break down the friction to make making stuff for everyone and for myself, you know?

Like I think that's, that's kind of the biggest thing. Um, so I think that's just gonna always be, that's just always gonna be part of it, you know? And it's just gonna have different forms, you know, it's just gonna take different shapes as I get older.

I've been one of the things, and you can validate this 'cause it's a hundred percent true, whereas like people are bored and exactly who they are, right. You know, like they come into this world and they are fully formed people. And so my big thing about parenting is the only thing that you can do to impact your kids is to either add friction or remove friction on the path of who they're becoming. Right.

So as a parent, you are either throwing things in their path and preventing them from taking that path, and they have to go around your obstacles to get to where they're ultimately gonna be, or you're actively removing the things that are in their path for them and helping them through that.

And I think that like having that approach to parenting and understanding that like people are, whoever they're gonna be and everybody has different blocks, and the whole thing is identifying those blocks and helping them move them outta the way. You know, like whether I can physically move them out myself or I can show them how to move it out and like that's the whole thing. And so I think it's like, it's both like a parenting thing, but then also just like a general creative life thing.

Is that like identifying the, that we're all on a different path and everybody's got different blocks and that we can actually go and help remove those blocks or teach people how to push their own blocks aside, you know?

But if the idea of the family business is, Hey, this is the thing I've built, what role in it could you have? You know, like what would get you excited that would make you wanna participate in this? That's a totally different thing. You know, like it's not all about, you know, handing down the ownership. It could just be about handing down part of it that they get excited about, you know? So I, I don't know. I think it's. It's just very interesting and it's fun to model.

Like a lot of the things, like, that's my favorite thing too, is just like living my life. How I hope that the kids live their life. You know, if they see me working after hours and make a comment about how I'm working a lot, I'm like, I'm only working right now 'cause I really love what I'm doing. Like, you know, I'm just really excited about this thing, so I just can't stop working on it 'cause I'm excited about it.

And so I'll just be like, I hope that you're excited about a thing to the point where it's bedtime and you have a hard time going to bed because you just wanna work on the thing. You know, like, we'll see.

And that's why, again, kind of coming back to this idea of, it's like in this moment in time, I feel like there's a, there's a constriction or, or there's a, there's a, you, you can't, you can't do that. You can't say that you can't, you can't, uh, share those, those eight positive things in, in this moment in time. It's like, no, it's actually imperative for you to, to do that because people need to be reminded that these things exist.

That they can, that they have agency, that they have that same spirit inside of them, even if it is dormant or even if it, if it's underutilized, you're helping give them permission to exercise those muscles. And, and that's, that's a really important gift. I cannot believe that we made it this entire time without digging into music in any real

And then let me look into my, my recent liked songs. Um, oh, I really liked the band Bronco, and they're young and touring. They're very fun, big into them. there's also a band named Fiddler, which is like a kind of drunk teenage band, and I love them a lot. Right now. I can't play them in the car with my kids 'cause they curse too much. But no, I just listen to the same tired music over and over again.

My camera doesn't wanna focus on it, but there it is. That one's a good one. And then this is new. I have an updated version of my IMP Progress book, which is now a thick boy 'cause I added almost 90 pages to it. And so this is on pre-order right now and it, and it comes out in May. So you should get this 'cause I'm proud of it. And it turned out really good