What if?

has never been kissed. It's hip hop. But I'm like, how metal is this? But if you want to play the dozens, we can settle it quick. I get every rebound like whenever I missed the Dope Ama laugh plus yellow and Chips. Nick Yo name is Dope Knife And we are waiting on reparations. But you know, if slavery never ended, maybe you know we have nothing to wait for. Yeah, it's all good. We're still you know. That's a groom way to open up the ship, isn't it? Well? You know,

how are you doing today? I'm good. I'm doing all right. It's rainy. It's rainy day here at the Georgia, But I can't really complain too much. How you do. I'm good. It's been thunderstorming off and on in Savannah for like the last week, so same sort of thing, you know what I mean. I don't feel like leaving the house. Climate change some day, drying up this field, the pain, you know what's crazy as the rain is going but

it's still hot as ship. I know. I was like yo, in the South, it'd be raining and then some come out afterwards to just steam us like a bag of crabs. Every time I was walking into the store the other day, I couldn't tell if it was rain or like sweat pouring down on me. It's just the yeah, I mean, you just gotta go with the flow. So so today we're doing something a little different. Um, we're doing a movie review of a two thousand four film by the name of C s A The Confederate States of America.

This is a movie that I saw back in college years ago, and I don't know, it's circulated throughout the

crew and everybody. You know. It really was a subject of discussion amongst my you know, inner circle of friends and all of the people who saw it, and it's something that just as years went on, I never really understood why it wasn't not necessarily more popular, but just more known about considering that it was made in the era of the Chapelle Show, you know, and things like that, and you can definitely see in its humor that it is it isn't that I wonder why it never caught on.

I mean, it's it's definitely has more of a serious tone than Chappell's show. But anyway, I know that we're we're talking about it and we're being kind of a but that's because we want to kind of go in depth and in it on this so we are going to explain to you the premise, the plot and everything, but just to give you a little synopsis of what's coming. This film is a mockumentary about retelling of American history if the Confederacy had won the Civil War. Oh and

it's available. It's available on YouTube and various other streaming platforms, so, like, you know, check it out. We do get a little spoilery in our discussion, but I don't think it ruins the film because like it's worth it for the way the humorous instantiated. Like, well, we're talking through some of the plot points, but it's still very much worth it for the chapels. Yeah, and the way that I mean, I guarantee you that what we're the things that we

do go in depth on. It's not even scratching the surface of how much there is in the movie, you know what I mean to sink your teeth into. So we're just it's something that i'd I'd been wanting to get Maria to check out for years just because you know, you hadn't heard of it. It was again, it was like, damn, yeah, I think this would definitely be something that you would

find interesting, you know. So we're gonna talk about that and more after Oh no, no, no, I forgot Um yeah, well, I mean the uh, I guess the inception point for this whole thing was based off of a pole that I recently heard about. It was a new you gov poll that revealed that sixty six percent of Southern Republicans support secession. According to the results, a fair share of Democrats, independence and Republicans in different regions can't imagine leaving the

US to join a smaller union. Um, and I think of it. It's potentially a positive thing. Um. But an only one region, the South, did a majority of one group come out and strongly in favor. I was six of Southern Republicans approving of the idea of a secession of Southern Chane. The thing is, I can remember, you know, we all thought it was when when I saw this movie with my friends back in the day, we all thought it was funny. We all thought it was pointed and sharp and and made a lot good points and

with a good commentary and all that stuff. But there was still definitely a there was a fantastical element about it, you know what I mean. There was there was definitely a like, damn, that would be crazy if that happened. And now, almost twenty years later, thinking about it, it's like, damn, this feels like it feels like we could get there. Not not likely, but it just feels like a lot

more probable of a thing in the movie. It makes the movie seem a lot more grip to me when I watched, like watching it now for this for this review, it's like on a point, you do hear a lot of libs, Like on the internet you see those maps of like okay, if you had to pick four states to seceed with four contiguous states, you know what states would you pick? Or like, oh, let's break off the South from the rest of from the coasts or whatever and like join with Canada like this dream of like

let's just like get away from racism. Let's just like essentially most black people to exactly the Republican overlords in the Red States where we you know, generationally, you know, it's not a yeah, it's not a good thing. You know, it's not a good thing. And it's it's something you hear both sides entertained as like a Nana Nanni boo boo.

Like even if it wasn't that, like, even if it wasn't on that like lib fear raging ship, it would still be like a fucked up sentiment because like you said, it's like, well, you know, I guess everybody who lives there, we can just abandon them and it's all good, you know what I mean. I know that's not what we meant black people can come to. It's like, oh, I'm glad that we were the afterthought in your dream of just leaving behind your problems rather than confronting and addressing them,

which is just like liberal wed dream. But anyway, yeah, well we're gonna get into this. Flix c s A and more after the jump. All right, we are back, so c s A the Confederate States of America. It's a two thousand four movie that's mockumentary that was directed by Kevin Wilmot, who's the writer and director and is long focused on black issues in his works. He's collaborated with Spike Lee often, and they share an OSCAR for Best Original Screenplay for the twenty nineteen movie Black Klansmen.

Spike Lee is also a producer on this flick. Have you seen Black? I have not, you know, if I had tried and I fell asleep or something. I'm tripping admittedly because like I don't think I've seen Spike Lee's last three joints. In general, I'm not a huge movie watcher. Um So I'll use that as my excuse. But I mean, you watch a lot of horror movies, or at least when usually when I do see you watching movies, you're

watching like so this movie was perfect. Um So, it's a it's an alternate history, as we said that for the jump, and where in the Confederacy wins the Civil War and establishes a new Confederate States of America that incorporates the majority of the Western hemisphere, including the contiguous United States as well as the Golden Circle, UM, Caribbean

and South America. And it details the history of you know, significant political and cultural events UM in these Confederate States in America from its founding up until the early two thousand's UM and the viewpoint is used to kind of satirize real life issues and events and shed light on the continuing existence of discrimination in American culture. Now, the thing that separates this from other mockumentaries is, I guess I would have to say, is the perspective that it's

told in. So it's it's brought to you as if it's a British documentary. Like just imagine like a sort of BBC type of channel, and imagine that you're watching that and on this BBC channel, you're there's a documentary about the history of the United States, So like you're in England and you're watching some about American history over there that you know, BBC produced production. And in in between it, you know that that's kind of the perspective

that is told in. So you're watching, you know, television in this world where the Confederacy has taken over so interrupting the program you're watching. You have these commercial breaks that we're gonna get into later on, but it's it's showing you what I guess advertising and marketing would be in a white supremacist slave culture. And then it has two talking heads that sort of provide a lot of

the narration for the film. There's Sherman Hoyle, who, um, I guess it is is supposed to be a parody of this dude, Shelby Foote, who was sort of a historian that was a leader with the you know, um, the Lost Cause movement of like, oh, you know, the the heroism of those that fought for the Confederacy, and then now it wasn't all about slavery, that whole branch of of history, making um, the attempt to arrest control of the narrative away from the linus UM. And so these

are conservative seven are given his take. And then on the other hand, you've got a black Canadian professor, Patricia Johnson UM providing commentary throughout the film. UM. And then you've got this dude, John Ambroise spawn Troy, great grandson of one of them men that helped found the cis A. It's also interviewed and what's interesting is the narration UM explains the fake historical news real footage UM which is either acted acted out or made of genuine archival footage

dubbed with fictional narration, which I found really entertaining. And one of the things one of the reviews that I read about this film is it was kind of like a critical review, but they were just saying this film suffered because the budget was very low. Yeah, it was like they were making the point that it made it seem a lot maybe more hokey or more satirical than I actually think the budget in that sense that you

just made up or that you just pointed out. I think the budget helped it out because some of those scenes where they have like archival footage next to their stuff that's like re enacted. Because the budget is low, the quality of the film makes it like blended. So it's like, oh, man, is that you know what I mean? Like for a second, you're like, is that really a video of Abraham Lincoln? Like you know what I mean?

Like that really like an old video of Abraham Lincoln like talking, because it looks like actually Grady photo video next to like these old Civil War photos and stuff. Like that. I thought that I thought that helped it. It It made it look genuine. I think I think it holds up. I mean I think that thinking back to like the History Channel documentaries and ship that I saw him when I was a kid, maybe late you know, late nineties, etcetera, this is very I mean it's very similar,

very similar, at least in the way it looks. And so I don't know, I don't think that um pretty good the critique stance, But you'll be the judge. I can check it out after you listened to this episode. Kevin Wilmot brgan production on the film with funding from the National Black Programming Consuscordia, or the NBPC, and he

wrote the first draft. He had earlier written a screenplay about abolitionist John Brown, and he told interviewers he was inspired to write the story after seeing an episode of the ken Burns nineteen nineties documentary The Civil War. I've never seen that documentary view No, I have not. Actually I've seen the Vietnam one that ken Burns did. That's

like a famous one. So let's get into some of the things that kind of stand out about this film to you, Like, what were your somebody what were your initial just first and foremost, since I finally got you to see it, what's your initial like thoughts about the movie? Well, and watching it, you know, I was aware that it was intended to satirize and sort of um speculate about what if with a lot of American history had the

Confederacy one. But as I was watching it, I was like, Yo, some of this kind of like did happen though, like in real life, like for real, for real um, particularly as I was thinking about like um um the so um in the film, they the Confederacy goes on to conquer not only the contiguos United States, but Cuba, South America.

They build a wall between America and Canada, the Cotton Curtain, um, to to to separate the abolitionists and the runaway slaves from you know, those territory in which slavery is illegal. But thinking about like the conquests that they undertake of Latin America to sort of spread their capitalists ideology, I mean,

you know, like using humans as capital um. I was like, Yo, that's sort of like real ship though, because if you you know, study the history of US Latin American relations, um, we've been involved in like regime change in Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Costa Rica, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, pretty

much every single country. Uh, then you can name if you throw a guard at a map, you hit a country where the CIA and you know, US backed forces have been involved in the destabilization of democratically elected governments, um. Such so that um, you know, we can continue to you know, exploit their resources, UM so that you know, socialism or other forms of organizing the economy don't take

on and then get exported to other countries. When people are like that actually works out really well, they're like they come in, it's like, nope, we're gonna make sure that you're working classes are held as chattel. Um by coming in and there militarily or covertly through espionage another means like I think com neoliberalism. Yeah, it feels like that's the point of the movie kind of show that.

It's kind of like showing that just because the mask was on doesn't like differentiate the actions, you know what I'm saying. So it's like it shows you how this how the Confederacy one and just continued on this like white supremacist sort of agenda. But it was just like open face because it's like, hey, we're the Confederacy, you know what I mean, we got But then when you think about it in parallel to how history actually played out, it's like, oh, wait, we were doing the same white

supremacist thing. We just weren't calling it that, and you know what I mean, And that just we just weren't

being open with the ship. Yeah. And as an abolitionist myself, I mean, like my key, my like core political framework is the come stemps in the belief that slavery was not abolished, like with reconstructions failure, with a pull out of Northern troops from the South during the period of economic um they're rebuilding the South economically, our failure to provide um stable supports and protections for people of color during that period um, and and the way that our

you know, our criminal justice apparatus apparatuses were restructured to maintain social control, like that stuff never ended. And so I think that I mean, from that lens, like a lot of what they portrayed the movie, if it very much fits into that, was like white supremacy ultimately still one even if slavery was nominally abolished in the form

of like, you know, chattel ownership of of humans. So let's let me give a little, just a little like bullet point timeline of how they have events sort of happened, right, So the Civil War happens for all of the reasons of the Civil War happens. But in in the film, the South decides to like decidedly declare that the Civil War is about states rights. Like that's there. That's their main propaganda push is that it states rights instead of you know, just openly being like we're fighting for the

right to preserve slavery. So this, well, I mean, you know, the ambiguity of it is strategy. So them doing that then opens the way for Europe I guess feel good with getting involved at this point. For example, in the movie The Battle of the Battle of Gettysburg, it's the Northern troops that fighting the Confederacy, but also French troops and British troops and stuff like that. The Confederacy ends

up winning. This leads to a chain of events like Abraham Lincoln getting exiled and then he has to run away to Canada where he dies. Um Harriet Tubman gets

gets found and they execute her. They do a they do like a Northern Northern reconstruction where they pretty much go in and then implement slavery throughout the nation, so that in turn makes this giant fascist state that yeah, they like offered tax credits for like Northerners to get them, to incentivise them to own slaves, and even got a picture. You're like, well, you know, this government benefit makes it very lucrative. I mean, I don't know, I can get

a picture it. Hey, here's what I can picture, right, and this is this is what I can picture. Okay, So seventy five million people voted for Donald Trump, right, mm hmm. I feel like if Donald Trump looked dead, dead eyed in the camera tomorrow was like, yo, we need to bring back slavery. I kind of think that at least seventy million people would still vote for Donald Trump. Well, they'd be a little yeah there, There'd bet million would be like, oh, that was a deep fake. I don't

believe that he's a good guy. And then another are probably like, yeah, let's do it. Other historical things that you know they portrayed the film that we're not too far off from reality. Um, I think in World War Two they go America goes to fight the Nazis, but not because um, they want but because they prefer that

the Jews be enslaved rather than yeah, exterminated. Yeah, because because we're this uh giant Confederate fascist state that's taken over um, South America and has their hands rooted in everything. And also they're about some right supremacy ship. The Confederacy allies with Hitler, and while he's getting ready to do the Holocaust, they suggest to him this character who's kind

of his generation. This character font Roy, is kind of a recurring character throughout the movie, like in the different generations of his families are Like you see him in the Construction of the Confederate State, and then you see his grandson who's running for office now. But that senator, that congressman. He suggests to Hitler, a, you know, you

should enslave the Jews instead of killing them. So then that leads to access power that includes the US and Germany, and then we end up invading Japan prematurely and taking that over. It's it's crazy, man. I mean the whole thing, the way that I'm describing it is almost sounds like it's a fucking like sci fi thriller and ship like that. It's very much, you know, done in the style of

a documentary. But I think that the ideas they're dealing with, it's just there's just so much there, you know what I'm saying. When you just think of it from a story standpoint, the it's really a cool work in world building because they really thought of every aspect of how

history would play out. And I think it's a number of parallels here, but one that popped out to me was that the Confederate recruited slaves voluntarily released by their owners for military service as soldiers by and promised them their freedom after the war and exchanged for fighting I promise, which turned out to be a lie. And that this does not stray too too far from the reality of black veterans returning for more, whether it be within the promises made by the g I bill, UM for mortgages,

for access to higher education, UM. The g I Bills language didn't specifically exclude African American veterans, but it was structured in a way that ultimately shut out I think like one point two million black veterans that served in the world War two who served in resegregator ranks by the way, UM, and so they actually used some of the tactics that had previously been used with the New Deal to ensure that UM. The g I Bill helped

a few black people as possible. UM. You know, for example, some couldn't access benefits when they got home because they had not been given an honorable discharge. UM. A much larger number of black Urrans who were discharged were discharged dishonorably than their white counterparts. As well, UM, a number of veterans UM who did qualify couldn't find facilities that

delivered on the bill's promise. For example, black veterans UM or offered access to a vocational training program, but the only place to get it was at a segregated high school and in the and then for in this specific example, it was in Indianapolis, UM because because they weren't allow because they weren't allowed to use the facilities. Because if there's a segregate UM and then intimidation from the public, you know, MOB rules also leverage to discourage black veterans

from taking advantage of the benefits they were promised. UM. For example, in a crowd hurled rocks at black veterans as they were moved into a Chicago housing development. And you know, thousands and thousands of black veterans were attacked in the years following World War Two. UM, some were singled out and lynch and so just like street violence, in addition to you know aarious uh you're bureaucratic or other otherwise you know, policy means used to actually ensured

that like yelling, get shit. UM. And then uh, the discussion of Interestingly, this is a theme that's carried through and some of Spike Lee's work, UM, the Five Bloods that came out into UM talks a lot about actually the focus of the film is a black federalist treatment returning from Vietnam UM, which also UM in my study, I've been reading the hub P Newton Reader, and UM,

it seems like, particularly the Vietnam conflict. While it doesn't really like the factor in the film here, this idea that all you go fight you know, abroad and come back and to you know, a better life, because well yeah, but you really come back to being a slave. UM was a reality that like a lot of black revolutionaries were keenly aware of and that really informed their anti imperialist uh stances in a sense of internationalist solidarity um

during that period, umcause they're like, are you kidding? Go fight a war again, people who have more in common with and the folks sending me to go fight, um just to come home and be like called a nigger still Like like that whole part is actually my favorite part of the movie, when they get into the sixties and stuff like that, because by the time they get to the sixties in the film, you know, everything as far as like, as far as they're concerned, the Confederacies

in tranquil peace and everything is the way they wanted to be, and the you know, the whole entire thing is thriving. But then you start having an abolitionist group that's Canadian bass called the j BU, the John Brown Underground and they form as freedom fighters slash terrorists to the Confederacy, doing bombings and things like that, and this

creates more tension between Canada and the US. And in Canada, by the way, since free black people are in Canada, Canada is the country that cultural elite ribs where you've got blues and jazz and rock and roll and all these things, and uh, the US pretty much stays like you know, Dixie. So it starts this tension between Canada and the US and they build like they pretty much

they use abolition as a substitution for communism. Yeah, so the Red Scare in the sixties and the film is like a scare about the spread of abolition, and there's a there's a really cool part where they show a snippet from a fake nineteen sixties movie called The Abolitionists, and it's like this woman confronting her husband and she's like, you've been reading all of these books the Life and Times of Frederick Douglas, Uncle Tom's cabin. What are you

doing with these? And he's like, I'm reading them. I'm an abolitionist. Don done Dune. Yeah, yeah, I know. That's that's mad funny. What would you say it was your favorite part? Um? My favorite part? I honestly, I know you're gonna talk about this a little bit, but I thought the commercials really particularly understanding some of their like origin, the origins of the I'll let you get into that

in a second, but that those little snippet breaks. You never knew what was gonna You never knew it's gonna be like oh, commercial brake, let's see what it is. Yeah, So okay, so let's get into these commercial breaks, because I guess if there's any sort of like hook to the film, and it got it's such like a dark,

darkly humorous thing. But the hook of the film, I would say, is around the commercial breaks that are, you know, interrupting the document documentary that you're watching and in this fake world of the Confederacy, in this fake world, but in this in this world that the movie creates of the Confederacy running things you have ads for I mean pretty much the sort of advertisements that would exist that existed in the US in the time of slavery, but

you see them updated through time, you know what I mean. And then also they do parallels with shows in products and things that we have now to kind of peel the skin off of the onion to show you, you know, how some of these things themselves are rooted in white supremacy to begin with, the best example of this is

their interpretation of the show Cops. So they have a show, you know, there's a commercial break for a show called Runaways, and it's it's just cops chasing after runaway slaves and through the theme song instead of having the Bad Boys theme song. It's like, you know, Southern Dixie, run boy run boy By, you better run run run boy run boy By, you better run Runaways and all the twitters that you're seeing it looks like an episode of Cops.

But in the context of this, it's like, I mean, for me, just growing up, Cops was always just whatever. I never watched it, but it was just a thing that was on TV, you know what I mean. And it was debiquitous, yeah, exactly. And it wasn't until I saw this movie back in the day where I was like, oh wait. Commercials range from there is a toothpaste called Darky Toothpaste. We've got the sambo X fifteen motor oil commercial and that commercial and is pretty, um, pretty disturbing.

It starts off with kind of like a what are they called smoke? What's not smoking? In the bandit the Dukes of Hazard. It kind of has like a Dukes of Hazard duo who are who are sitting cleaning their car? And then you know, a famous NASCAR ish driver appears. He's like, you know, you you're having car trouble. Try sambo X fifteen motor oil. We've got um nigger hair cigarettes. We've got a spoof on the Leave It to Beaver show called Leave It to Beulah and was a real

show one. Then yeah, it definitely was like that where it's like ha, but then it's like, oh, shift, No, that was like real ship though. Um the Coon Chicken in which was a real restaurant that I think lasted up until like nineteen nineteen fifties. Oh, and the nigger hair cigarettes that I mentioned, if I'm not mistaken, the movie says that that was actually that, like it was a product that existed until the nineteen eighties. All this ship so much it in here was like, nah, I

actually had some real ship, bro. And so it's like, unless you know your history deeply, it's like chuckle, like, oh that'd be That'd be ridiculous if that happened. It's like, no, we had lived in a ridiculous reality currently. Well, I mean, I just I just like that and and maybe this is completely anecdotal, but it's just, you know, the personal experience that I have with the film because you know, the crew, the caps that I hung out with, we were all you know, it was literally like my crew

back in the day. Was literally like one of those like Burger king kids clubs sort of looking cre I mean, it's like we've got like three Asians, we've got like four black guys, we've got a white guy, we've got two girls. One of them's Latino, you know what I mean.

Just like everyone was covered and we all you know, and I just remember like us watching this, and we must have watched this like four times as a group, you know, and just Sharon Blunt's and having like in depth discussions on just our feelings about race and politics and culture, and you know, our reaction to the film. So it's always going to have that sort of special

sentimental like feeling for me. But I can't help but think that in a group of like minded people, it probably can spurre the same sort of discussions and understandings that we got back in the day. So it's definitely a recommended movie for me, recommended you know, for for groups of friends, you know, definitely you know, some people, It definitely definitely trigger warning, trigger warnings all around there. There's definitely some things in there. I'm not gonna lie.

It's a little hard to watch times because it's just like like in Sallustlers in it, you know, for I guess to keep that world building aspect for it to seem as realistic as possible. But I flunched a couple times.

God damn fun. I mean, I think it's I think that's important though, you know what I mean, Like, I feel like I feel like if it didn't have that, say, the fact that when we were watching it, there was stuff that would happen in the movie where all of like the black people in the room would be like and like all the white people would just kind of be like silent, like white white Like Yo, I don't laugh at that, but I want to laugh. Yeah. So it's like I said, it's that Chapelle era sort of

racial commentary, you know what I'm saying. So, but jumping back to the commercials, I think Richard Bardie in The New Yorker, in his review of the film captures what like the function of the commercials really well. He says, above all the folk commercials captured the blithe contentment of white people, um a fantasy of white supremam white supremacy that it's inextricable from American history, and continues to sell

goods and in elections today. The crucial threat of c s A is the delicate balance on which even the current impaired state of sub rights depends, ingrained premise of racism on which the United States is built, the relentless effort that it takes to resist the realization of that premise, and the restoration of its institutions. Um, and the tiny flicks of historical switches on which matters of gravest of

the grave of moment depends. UM. But yeah, like the I think that like up cut throughout the film are these moments where it's just like looking at how happy, why people are in this scenario, and like that's to day, you know, again drawing that the host the parallel to our timeline that's so much of white supremacy depends on just like maintain the maintenance of just white um to

petman and complacency. You know that in order to get your brunch on Sunday morning and have your fancy mimosas and shipped like, you're gotta exploit a worker that's making to thirteen an hour UM and tips. And you know it's whether or not they can pay rent or not, or whether they're like bill or pay for from the college, like all of that, Like that's the bedrock on which

all of this still rests. And I think the commercials kind of like they play that up because it's like so over the top, how like cheery and content contented the white people are. But like that, I think it speaks a lot to like, um, what white supremacy looks like today. Still. Have you ever seen a Spike Lee movie called Bamboozled that came out like two right? Yeah? Literally too that I think I saw all right after

it came out, which means it must have been like twelve. Yeah. Well, you know what, I think that the next time that we ever do do uh episode where we're reviewing a movie, we should we should check that one out. I think that's another Forget one because it's pretty much kind of about the subject of It's almost like a prequel or sister movie to this because it's it's kind of about white supremacy hidden in in current day marketing and the media and stuff like that. So that could be an

interesting thing to check out. Um, we do not have a music discussion today or do we? I don't know. I don't think we do. Yeah, I don't think we don't think we do have a music discussion today. So anyway, in closing, highly recommend this movie. Um, I think it's it's important, it's funny, and you know, it definitely will peep your interests in some things about history that you did not know. Because there's a little before before Marvel

movies we're doing the end of the credit scenes. This movie hits you with the ill end of the credit scenes to let you know how close to reality it actually is and how it's not like just wild speculation and fantasy. So if you like Spike Lee, if you like mockumentaries, if you enjoy the humor, the style of humor of like The Chappelle Show era, I would recommend

this movie. Um checking it out, Thanks for putting me on MAC kind of you're talking to me for a long time and I finally thought no doubt and now I get to spread that with all of y'all out there. So we are going to be back next week like we always are. But for now, it's been a long time. Shouldn't left you left without dope? Rob step two step two step to step up here, Hey yo, Joe, drop a beat a I'm dope, Knife Lingo Franca and we are waiting on reparations. See you next week. Next Week.

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