The Art of War

athlete cross legs in the folk arms. But they have a conversation with soul conte knife lingua Franca's volte tron Ya ain't never heard ship Yo holds on Yo. It's dope knife Franca and we are waiting our reparation. I had to I had to throw that in there in the spirit of our topic today. Yeah, I know you beat me to the punch because I was gonna like throw in one too, but yeah, yeah, So to this week. Well, before we get into the topic of this week, how

are you, what's good? What's going on? I'm good, I'm good. Um, you know I can't complain about much, just super busy, but otherwise, you know, life is life is treating me pretty here in the process of opening a studio. Yeah yeah, I'm I'm you know, I got myself a little studio space, so I'm like still in the process of getting all the equipment in and stuff like that. But you know, it's just you know, just doing a little little side

projects things. I started working on a new album too, but fantastic yea, you know, all that sort of stuff. But we we have a extremely stacked episode and one that I'm pretty excited to deliver, so I think we're just gonna get into it today. We're gonna be talking about aspect of this hip hop thing that we both

have some experiencing. We might have mentioned it once or twice or a million times on the show before, but we're gonna be talking about the art of battle rap, being should I say, the culture of battle rapping of one of the two The lines are they're kind of blurry, but um, there's there's there's a lot of things, you know, when it comes to to doing hip hop and also being I hate using the word conscious, but being you know, involved or aware of politics in your case, involved in politics,

like directly you come across a lot of aspects of it um that are kind of ingrained in the culture as it exists now that don't necessarily vibe with who you are politically or ideologically. We kind of touched on this in the more Money, More Problematic episode, but um, I would say, and and we probably haven't experienced that as much, but because we know we're both on the more on the recording performing side of things, but we have, like,

you know, background dabbling in battle rap. But the aspect that I think would probably find you conflicting with that the most would probably be battle rap, you know what

I'm saying. Yeah, akin to the momenty more Problematic episode where we talk about like club bangers that you put on you kind of ignore their lyrical content because it's so fine, but like you just you just get in the moment, I think battle rap culture and then like the cipher as a space UM is another place where like you kind of have to leave your your moral your your moral compass at the door, you know. And so we're gonna talk a little bit about that today.

It's like, um, you know, some a wise m C once told me when I was first starting, he was like, uh, finding your voice as like a rapper, it's all about finding who you are. It's like who you are in real life, but with the volume turned way up, you know what I'm saying. And like the battle rap when you get into battle rap mode, when you do it seriously, when you're like just you know, messing around with your friends,

it's one thing. But when you're like doing it in a competition format where you actually really want to win, that's when that like character mass comes on and you're like, you're not You're not Kendrick Mac anymore. You know, because anybody who knows me personally like I'm I'm always smiling and ship, you know what I mean. But it's like in battle mode, you're like in a fugue state of of of wrap in in like lyrical sparring that It's

it's kind of hard to describe. So we're gonna get into that, and we're going to be talking about that very subject with um battle Rapper Extraordinaire and left this activist soul con who's gonna come up. We're gonna talk about how he deals with that conflict as well as his background and hip hop and how he got into battle rap and just how he's witnessed. It evolved through

through the through the days. So getting into things. Battle rap, you know, more or less is believed to have started in the East Coast of New York back in the nineteen eighties. But Mariah, if you had to describe to somebody, like if if someone you know had hadn't even seen eight lile, like someone coming in that blind, if they just like asked you, what is battle rap? I heard

of it? How would you describe it to them? Well, I feel like someone might be familiar with the concept of freestyle, but ahead of their awareness of some of the some of the conventions of battle rap as a subgenre within that general style. And so with freestyle, I mean, you're imp it's improvisation, it's metered, it's rhymed um. But

within battle rap, it's it's a contest. And so it's drawing on anything from the physical mannerisms and manner of speech, the per where someone's from of your of your content, if your fellow contestant, of the person who stepped into you in that space, um to determine who has not only the best lyricism with regards to like metaphors and analogies akin to the way we might um evaluate rap for large but I think there's particularly a comedy component

that you don't always see in a lot of other rappers. I mean you see a little bits here and there, but particularly like making jokes on someone and making the crowd laugh, like you know, making like making the crowd like freak out with um your your quick thought, but particularly like bringing someone down to peg with you know, references to what choose their wear and what have they got on that something a girlfriend, but that that sort of things like the punchline a peg is a little

bit of an understatement. You're trying to bring them down like a whole, a whole like of bringing them down, you're trying to make it so that they never returned to that venue again, exactly. Know, I I agree with like that description is like spot on. I think it's like, uh, it's like a when you get past the musical element of it, and we're gonna get a little bit into

that too. But when once you get past the musical element of it, that it's you know, rapping and uh, you know over a beat, it's kind of like a battle of wits, you know, especially when you get into the freestyle zone, it's like who you know, because you can come in with stuff prepared or things in mind, but when you're reacting off of what the person said, and when that person is reacting off of what you said, or you're reacting off things that happened during that day,

and you're bringing it up in the battle, like all of those things add to it, but you're bringing up the comedic element. That pretty much is the key. That's like the strategy to like winning of battles is if you're funny and if you make people laugh at your opponent. You know that that's kind of the goal right there. So however you can do that, I know some people that are able to do that in like a a

very self apprecating Seinfeld sort of way. There are people who were able to do that in like a tough guy screaming sort of way, and and everything in between. But that's kind of the goal of it, I think. I mean, there's I will never forget this picture rap bottle I was in where um uh, this m C I was up against won the battle by taking away

everything I could possibly say about him. I was up against this like short white guy and everyone always made fun of him for being short and white and like you know, imminent comparisons, and like he got out there and was just like super self deprecating and had everybody roll it, losing their minds laughing, and I had nothing left to make a joke about him about because like what am I gonna call him short again? Like what am I gonna you know, like call of the keepler elf?

He just he literally just did that. And so yeah, there's you can't flip it on your head. But mostly those, you know, slights are aimed at your opponent. But I think I think where this intersect with like On's person politics is like you're discursively positioning yourself in the space and a hierarchy of skills, the guardsire, linguistic dessarity, um, et cetera. But in the joke making aspect, you're also positioning yourself in hierarchies alongline race, gender, class, ethnicity, sexuality,

street affiliation. Um. So you're putting somebody down like, oh, like you know, you ain't really black, or you're a woman, or you're gay, or you're or I think you're gay, or oh you're Mexican, or your Latine or your Latino, You're Asian as a way of like through the word play creating a hierarchy you know, based on like the black the straight black male is at the top of the hierarchy in in a battle wrap space, and everybody else like whether real or perceived, UM, trying to put

someone on you know, a lower rung than you, and so whether or not that actually aligns with your politics outside of that space, you know, whether or not you really like think lead of of less than you or you really want to go around making jokes about LGBTQ people. Um is where there's where like the the moral rug gets a little slippery under your feet in the space, and I guess like something that we want to kind

of unpack today. UM. I've definitely um been in some circles where I've been in you know a lot of odd hip hop circles, but I've been in a lot of battle spaces where you know, it's in real life, it's like all all sorts of people who are there on all different you know, from all different walks of life, but within the confines of the arena of battle rap, there's kind of like that understanding amongst everybody that you know, it's it's just battle rap, you know what I'm saying.

So from that aspect, people don't really people who are in those spaces don't really take it that way. But to like to an outsider being in there, it's like you're look, you're listening to You're like, oh my god, can you believe that person said x y Z? And can believe that other person said x y C. This is this is crazy? And then the two of them were like shaking hands and getting a drink and like smiling afterwards, and you know, it's exactly exactly yeah. And

I often referenced that aspect of battle rap. It is like very formative for like how I operate within the puddle sphere and why I think that battle rapping and free styling activities like that actually gear people up for like civic leadership into this weird way because like when I go to a meeting at city hall, I can like be yelling until I'm spinning in people's face, but afterwards like, oh, you know, have a you know, have a good have a good night, Mike, I You'll have

your wife and ship. Um, just like in a in a battle when someone come at me like oh you're left being you don't shave your legs and your hand nappy a lot and the like. But at the end of it, like you you dap and you have a shot together and it's like all good or not. Chill um regularly with yeah, sorry, yeah, I go friend, no no, no, I have a good story about telling. I'll tell it at the end of it. Um. But yeah. So so let's uh, let's get into some of the earliest references

to battling. So so, yeah you brought up the better rap started with East Coast hip hop during the nineteen eighties. But really, this this ritual or this tradition of ritual insult go it within the black community goes back. You know.

It was first documented by the psychologist John Dollard in nine UM when he was taking a look at the way people played the dozens so trading verbal insults in a joking manner before an audience of associates, you know, jabbing the people about hygiene or sex, homosexuality, ugliness, intelligence, your mama, etcetera. Goes way, way, way way back in

just like Black vernacular culture generally. But then as we found our voice musically, um, with hip hop in the eighties nineties by it sort of got retooled as a way of resolving beef, a way of showing your linguistic dexterity, the way that you would do the same over a beat in a non like competitive manner. But yeah, so it has deep, deep roots in just the way that uh, like, I guess, like black culture's love of language play and also the like kind of working with each other in

playful way. Yeah, some of you out there you might have heard, you know, your experience with battling, if you haven't, like checked out some things on YouTube, you know, perhaps you know about the new renditions of battling, which involves two people reciting I mean, I guess you could say it's like almost poetry in a way, like spoken word rhyming poems that are you know, with the same sort of intent that battle rap has, but it's over no music, and you know, one person takes a turn, the other

person takes a turn, and it's pre written and they memorize it before they go in. And there's an art in a whole culture to that in itself. Um, the battling that I'm used to is, I guess at this point is a traditional I guess it's considered, but it's the freestyling off of the top of the head. You know, one person goes for forty five seconds or something, the next person goes for the same and maybe you do two rounds of that crowd and some judges determines the winner.

What do you what do you think about the new style of battling. I guess it's not into it. I mean, like I feel like, you know, people, people older generations are always hating on the new thing, right, so like hip hop in general isn't as good as it used to be, Like you hear old Head say, and so I'm not trying to be that person and being like, oh that's not real bad rap, that's not what it's

supposed to be. But I came up. I I personally disvalue the ingenuity of improvisation over he wrote some ship down to ahead of time, and like I was looking at somebody's Facebook page for months, like checking out who their girlfriend is, where they were, you know what I mean, And like, yeah, I like for me. I'm also I like music, you know, And there's the element of like the fact that battling is like a musical was always

a musical. Competition to me, is what was appealing in it, Like, no disrespect, but I'm just not like, I'm not the sort of cat who goes to like slam poetry events because it's just not my jam, you know what I mean. So the acapella battling kind of has that vibe to it, you know, if it feels to me like you you just kind of have to be dope with words, which is a whole skill and discipline in itself. But I don't think you necessarily have to be a good rapper

to be good at doing that stuff, you know. And I talk about all the sort of things with so Con too. By the way, you um that it's pretty long. You think we should get it started. Yeah, it's happened to it. All right. We're gonna be back with leftist activists and battle rapper extraordinaire soul Con right after the jump. Alright, y'all, So we are about to chat with someone who I'm a huge fan of. He is a m C of the highest caliber and also an activist. It's my homie,

soul Con. What's up, man. Pleasure to be here, Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate you taking the time to come talk with you. Man. So, how's how's life been treating you in this this crazy world the last year two? I think it's okay. I mean it's uh. I would say that I am encountering

more as men the last year. I've encountered more hurdles than some and far fewer than others, both a lot of it having to do with just the emotional toll and physical toll of living in a in a much less connected physically connected world, especially because I live in New York City and that is a and and one of the reasons I love it is what's usually the life of the city and how many people are always here and moving and engaging with each other, and you know,

at all sorts of hours, and seeing that necessarily contract and the name of public health goals. It's been tough. It's been tough. It's really tough. For the first couple of months of the pandemic, I did not leave a ten block radius basically except for a couple of times. Um, yeah, I feel you on that. I was the same exactly way so, but I'm you know, things are they're nice developments in my personal and professional life, and got new

music on the way too. And that's so I'm you know, and and there's an a very energized though in reasonably embittered, uh left wing in America. That's that's fighting for what they need to. So that's also good. Well, that's I want to like delve into a lot of that with you, like heavy, but I guess let's h let's get some of the the burning questions at the top of my brain out of the way first. So when how did

you get into hip hop? I got into hip hop because, um, of two things at once, basically, one of which was NTV, which I was not supposed to watch when I was a young kid. Um, not that I think that there was a I think if I were to not if I was back then, if there were reasons to not watch MTV, it wasn't for the reasons that you think it might have been, because like at the end of the day, was like them just selling people stuff. That's

that's commercial television. But I think my my family daughter might be like two adults or whatever, but like it was fine. Um, but it was MTV in tandem with my mom's selection of radio stations in the morning, which she take me to school. She would always you know, listen to either like Boldies News or Rapid Fan. She is to a lesser extent than I am, but but she's you know, both as a result of what I got into and where I went with my music and

who I worked with. You know, she she has sustained her you know, connection with the music as a listener. So that's how you got into it. But at what point or what prompted you to start wanting to make it? I started rapping when I was about thirteen years old. Um, badly, very badly. Yeah, but like it's there. You know, I was whatever a wonder kind is, I was the opposite of it. I got under kind or something. I was just I was dreadful and I didn't I was always

trying to sound like someone else. Um. And I really have a real sense of my actual voice and my distinct voice. Then I was also a teenager and that

it was this way for a long time. Um, and I you know, like ciphers in high school and middle school and or in high school that I'll be like high school and uh, you know when I went to college, you know, and I periodically go to places like Project Blown because I was in l A. You know, it was like a bi zillion year ride from my corner of the valley to there, or like go to like the other events and stuff plays like the basement there,

you know, so it's there. I I had a a somewhat if not a tenuous, sort of like corporeal connection to hip hop community in l A. It just was, you know, because of geography, Um it was. It was very limited. Um and I didn't drive at all in Los Angeles, which is that will make it hard to get around. Yeah. I rely on the kindness of friends and you know, so if I wanted to go anywhere to see anything and would have to be either because you know, my mom felt find it drive me there.

She always was supportive of just you know, time she was basically by in my teens she was a single mother and me she was a library clerk, and she I mean, honestly, given the quality of the father ing in my household, she was kind of a single parent the whole time in most regards. Uh so yeah. So but like I you know, and when I got to college, I uh you know, had a informed a rap groom, me and a couple of friends and as I approached

the end of college. One of my friends, you know, talking to me about what we were going to do, you know, what everyone's plans were. And one of the one of the kids, it was younger by a couple of years in me. Um, you know, I told him, I, oh, you know, I think probably gonna like working like a congress person's office or something. You know, that was going to be the trajectory and then we'll see what goes

where we go from there. And they said, well, that type of job will be around for a little bit at least there are rats to get it into it. It was very like insightful, uh, you know, take from a twenty year old and uh they said, you know, rapping might not be um and back then, you know, these are the early aughts, the age uh stigma was just wildly in effect still, you mean the age stigma in terms of like, you know, I think I can't be a thirty year old like and that's now we

know one kids a damn about that, which is is beautiful. Um. I think that actually there are there are factors behind that. It was really bad back every I mean everybody was setting that deadline on themselves like cats that were that are dope. We're like, yeah, man, I just got two

more years in the game. And it's mad funny when you think that, like some of the motherfucker's just dropped, like an album like Yesterday, and like and and Beer's you know, two chains blew up finally at the age of thirty six, like what I mean, obviously play a circle, but like the the explosions like thirty six years old, Yeah, they're they're there are adults ca yeah who is and also shot out to god dear man who is obviously doing uh he's done great work and professionally as a

musician outside of music too. Um, but yeah, the longevity is that, you know, I think hip hop grew up. I think a lot because of the fans grew up two and they recognize and also a lot of even the I feel like at a certain point, um, all of the because the music industry fell apart and all the people who used to be just like chasing the next new big thing couldn't dictate the terms of everything

that will blow up. Um, other voices and other people's tastes were able to uh, you know, people who value talent, regardless of the age, were able to say like, no, this, this is still worth it if you don't have to, you know, to try to chase what the kids are into. We're not kids, get over it, like exactly. It's like it's not this, yeah, and it's probably best reserved for kids. And that's like like there there can be I don't know.

It's just like I don't know why anyone, if those people even still out there, but I don't know why anyone has that sort of view that like hip hop has to be like this homogeneous thing. It's like, no, like there should be adult oriented rap music and you know, young adult there should be like Harry Potter version young adult novel wrapped in you know, like wild clubs that you know, there should be room for all of that.

I think I think people sometimes almost like do a straw man of trying to say that, oh uh, why why are you guys or why heads who are like, you know, more along the lines of like that that sort of quote unquote true school, old school, you know, vein of things. It's not necessarily that the diversity in

styles and stuff is an issue. It's just merely like it's more of a media criticism in terms of like the balance and what gets exposure and what doesn't you know, absolutely, and it's funny I was thinking that, Well we talked more about later, but like this is I did think a lot about that, about who sets the parameters for who becomes famous, and just thinking about how even because the other day, like I tweeted like it was really you know, no one said as rapid or widely celebrated

of of an ascendance as DMX did. And it's crazy to think that even act then a very like major label driven thing like his his like prime era. UM, it felt almost like more authentic then then a lot of stuff does now because it was out in the open and they were like, yes, Death Jam Records wants

you to listen to d m X versus. Now it's like, uh, an independent team that secretly was programmed by you know, a PR agency UM and a brand partnership with you know, of average company is organically suggesting that you get into this cool new artist that totally isn't a product of engineering that we did. Like that's it's very you know that and very there's a there's a plastic nous ship. I mean, you know, I had not to go to

wild all over the place. But I find it is in like a lot of entertainment video mediums where it's just like there's this aura of like and it almost feels like it's the eighties, Like it feels like a like a parody of like somebody making fun of how the eighties were, where it's like everything is just really like soulless and the the the there is no pretense

that capital is the biggest motivating factor. Everything exists absolutely, and and and and then there's they still try to put on the veneer of relatability, like you know, the classic example being brands tweeting brand the tweets is the is the real soul of you should if you watch like a making of on like a DVD that was made in like two thousand seven, and then you watch the making of for a movie that was made like two years ago, just look at the difference in what

their person that in you is, like the behind the scenes look. It's like like one of them is clearly like a reality show fake shit. Hell yeah, really weird. That's a good challenge. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna pick a good pick a real good one and just yeah, no now I'm hype for that. Okay, so I'm sorry not to And so what was the name of your rap group? Oh? Back then it was called VPM. Was what did that stand for? Oh my god? It was beat People's Movements? Like, yeah, I mean it's not the word,

but it sounds. I mean, someone could also have mistaken it for us, saying like being like a paramilitary or something, or an attack squad um, you know, like the but but we yeah, it was like beats it beats you know, Uh, it was, and I think it was. It was sort of one of those reverse engineered things where we thought like it would be cool to call ourselves VPM. Hey what does BPM stand for? And for? We've got coming up with the reading afterwards? Absolutely, and that's that's fine,

you know. By some of my first tattoos kind of have that sort of a good Yeah. I mean it's it's it's it's sort of like and it's sort of like that. That's also true that the spirit of songwriting in some cases where you like the way some words rhyme, and then you're like, what do I have to say that will make these words make sense? Yeah, that's how good it happens. All the time. I think we don't want to do it too often because it feels like you can tell. You can tell when somebody is doing that,

oh yeah, oh yeah, it's usually glaring. If they're not like a really good rapper, then cover it up. Um. That's sometimes it's the worst, just sitting with a couplet or like a rhyme scheme or like I could if I make this happen, I've I've triumph, I've I've conquered rap sit there for twenty minutes, You're like, Oh, let's think of something else. Let's let's try something else. Otherwise I'll hate my life, myself and this art form that

I'm trying to be still a tribute to himself. You know, the way that I heard of you was through the battle scene, and this is like I wanna if I'm going back to win. Like the first video that I can recall seeing if you, I mean it must have been like two thousand nine was when my first one came. It was around two thousan is I think I saw

like grind time stuff. You see, It's like I have I have a a nuanced relationship with that style of battling because the scene that I came up in was the freestyle scene, absolutely, and there's still like run there was an overlap there. Yeah, and then that at that time period, there was like I like I had missed out because my father worked for the State Department, so

I grew up overseasons. So by the time I had come, you know here to go to college, sucking, you know, scribble Jam and stuff like that was going on, and I wasn't like established enough to get into that scene. So when that started dying out is when the grindtime stuff started kind of rising. And did you do both? I actually did because there was no New York I think I either missed or there wasn't a New York

City Scribble Jam qualifier in two thousand seven. And so I went to Traverse City, Michigan by myself, which is a weird thing to do, and I did the scribble prelimbs there and I was in the semifinal. I was in the finals of the Scribble Prelimbs for Michigan, which is hilayer for Traverse City. I don't know if there was a Detroit one, which is wild to think about. I'm I'm I'm messing up because so we don't be

too insider. Yeah. So Scribble Jam was a huge hip hop festival in the you want to say, late nineties early three thousands, and he started in Ivink nineties six. I think, okay, so yeah, and I mean it's it has a huge legacy. For example, the most famous one is eminem Uh came in second place a scribble Jam, and I guess he handed off his debo or at

least the legend goes or some something like that. But Scribbles it's it's a really Olympics is where he did, I think, really really blow up um and and Scribble Jam though, was a big, big moment with him versus Juice. Uh, did you did you freeze? Did you do freestyle battle? And so obviously if you were in so it was freestyling on grind Time for the first couple of battles

with maybe some like premeditated stuff. I didn't write anything down because I thought, oh, that's cheating, and every still freestyling, except for maybe the people who did raps that were like more general and weren't personal. Um And when I found out that everyone was writing after my first battle that I lost in Grindtime, I was like, oh, whoops, Okay, I'm not gonna lose another one. We're done with that.

We're described to the listeners. Right, there's there's two different battle I guess is would would the word be scenes or styles? It's both because they there's regional There was definitely a regional difference in in regional emphasis on spontaneous freestyling in the West Coast more so I'm not saying it wasn't a president at all, and also in like the Midwest, um, whereas in New York it would be more about like honestly having a zero personally living material,

but like relying largely of stuff. It's like because there are the DVD battle scene, it was really big in

New York in the East Coast. But describe the difference the differences, the differences like between freestyling on beat, so spontaneous wraps about and against your opponent over a beat that you both get to wrap over taking turns um usually like thirty seconds to a minute per round um and the other style at the time, which is prevailed in a lot of ways like these basically people wrapping acapella for several minutes at a time, basically doing verses

like they could be like, uh, there there was a rap battle, but like you could view for the moment. For a lot of cases, you could have used their verses against one person, interchange on a song, or against anybody else they face. Um, And it's just sort of a wrap contest, like how well someone can wrap versus how well versus the freestyle one, which is a lot more about like how well can you dis your opponent

directly in a relevant way to them. So I've I've always had this analogy that I've made with it that I'm sure somebody who is as accomplished as you are in the written battle scene is, but I want to I want to share it with you anyway, just to see what you think of it, Right, So I always kind of looked at it as freestyle battling and the pre written battling. It's like the difference between UFC and w W E. Yes, when you watch a UFC match,

you honestly can see anything. It might be the greatest fight you've ever seen, or somebody might get knocked out in the first five seconds, or like anything can happen, Like somebody might be nervous and mess out and get knocked out and whereas with like a w W E match, it's like it's all it's all choreographs so that you the watcher are entertained. Note like everyone's gonna get to do their moves. You're gonna you know, you're gonna get to see everybody like perform and show out, and then

you know the like the winner is determined later. Absolutely, And I think people like, yeah, I think wrestling fans care less about like w W fans care less about outcomes than performance. They care less like who won the match versus who who did the coolest ship stuff? That's it, that's what matters. And I feel like that, Yeah, it's a good analogy obviously, Like there there are technically winners and losers, and times they'll judge battles in written battles.

They used to judge them more. Um, But you know, I I got over the whole non judge battle hang up that I used to have once I did a non judge battle, like, oh, no one cares, So did you did you? Like? Stop? I mean I know you you like I guess you didn't do battles for a long time and then you came back and did a battle. I did a battle not to like a year or

two ago. Yeah, And it wasn't a very auspicious return because I think I just I was doing too much other stuff and like I was coming off of a divorce, a difficult work year, and like transitioning to different medications, like it was a it was a rough time, and like it was like in a super healthy relationship. Um so I ate ship as far as I'm concerned in that return battle against disaster, and I have always owned that there were some glimmers and flickers. I think they

would be better. But like I flew directly from like a work evan to go to Oakland. I was like nauseous the whole time because I had I was like transitioning back from trinteleics to will beutran Um, and I just was not ready, you know. And I was just misallocating my time, both in terms of the prep that I was doing and just the time between deciding how much time I was been preparing versus not preparing, you know. And I'd been off on Chew. I thought that I

was writing something that would fill up. I think if I wrapped it at normal speed, my my return battle versus would have built like maybe twenty minutes instead of like, um, but I was like sort of mentally stuck trying to remember all my stuff basically doing like like something that was just like a speech at a certain point, and I hated it as it was happening. Um and killed me to like be in the moment and feel that.

Like I it was fun and it did did really well, except for the material that was unnecessarily problematic because he would have won without it easily. Um So, I mean, do you think you're gonna take another shot? There are a couple of impediments to that, one of which is that, I it's just so much time and attention and energy. Um Like, I don't. I don't even know exactly what

the full story is behind why you left. Actually, I was like there was a stigma that and there isn't now, I don't think really like you can if a new battle rapper can drop music, and granted, it'll be tougher to get it out there without having some of the music only platforms pushing you, um like, if you're not on any blog, serves playlists or whatever, like, it will be tough. You can't just do it via battle rap

unless just the algorithm blesses you. Yeah, or we have like a publicist working with But then in two thousand and ten, and the less I battled and the more I distanced myself from it, the more music opportunities came my way like a switch flipped. And it was not fair like that, doesn't I think folks Scott took that personally battle fans and battlers and that it was too good for It's like, no, I just I had a different priority. I went for that and it wasn't anyone's

fault that. That's how the market and the climate was then. Um. And it's a lot more rewarding to do both like monetarily and and terms of energy that you put into it. It's a lot more rewarding to make a song that you can perform over and over and over again, or have people play over and over and over again in a variety of settings, um, than it is to do a battle. That's so much more writing that has one use. Yeah,

and I don't I could, you know. So it's a lot of time, there's a lot of energy to put into it, and I would I could do it. I think I could do it. I could make up for my performance the first time around. The Other issue is that, like I think a lot of battle rap hers and fans I think are mad at me because of like

a Twitter controversy like a year ago. Um elaborate. Yeah, you know, because I think it's important to explore because there's a lot of misconceptions about it and like opportunistic people who just don't like me or standing for anything and actually living up to it. Um who likes snats jumped upon us, like a lot of rap floggers and stuff like that, a rap floggers and stuff. Is this something that would that that would be better prefaced by us talking about some of your activism work. No, I

think it's fun. I mean, like just so people know, like I just I've always been a leftist, but I haven't always embodied those principles. And when it came to my art, both battling in music, I'd have content that was you know, misogynistic, homophobic, like racially insensitive, you know, basically all stuff that like on a level of like

a stand up comedy thought was okay as a thing. Yeah, And I was like buying into that because I thought it's just a joke or it's just a line and you know, I I wrapped with that, and I've spent a decade reckoning with that and still reckon with it publicly and privately and with anyone I meet who discovers that I have wrapped in any of these settings. And I could be doing that for rest of my life.

And that's the onus that one has when they do something that has consequences like that, regardless of my intentions. And you know that being said, there was back when and then you know, I'll say this, I was. I recognized where I aired on this totally, but there are places where I did not, where I was miscast by

a lot of opportunistic folks. UM. It's like right after UH Kobe Bryant passed away UH in that tragic helicopter accident and his daughter and I saw so a lot of there are a lot of There are a lot of folks, dear to me, who were UH survivors of sexual assault. And at the time there was there were

folks who wanted to even talk about that. To mention of Kobe Bryant's life, UM, not necessarily, not not since like perpetually condemn him, but to like be mindful of how it might impact other people who are survivors of sexual assault, and not to like relitigate it even but just to like not erase it. Yeah, and especially given the fact that he himself made efforts to reckon with this and and which is rare, which is very rare

for someone of his prominence. Um. And I said, I initially tweeted something the effect of, like, you know, people are saying it's it's it's offensive to mention sexual assault, So how offensive is sexual assault itself? You know, like people were getting more offended about the mention of the thing than the thing itself being overlooked or being and like so like a couple of places where I sucked up is like timing wise, Uh, you know, I didn't

like the day after it happened. And I think I was just very reactive and raw and feeling sad seeing my friends of different gender racial backgrounds who had experienced

sexual assault. UM, feeling like diminished um. And there are ways to not diminish them or that issue while still recognizing the many uh you know, accomplishments and virtues and and and Kobe Bryant morning him and I sort of like got people's responses to me aside from just like being a set of timing where also people trying to say,

like all this stuff never happened. You're like trying to you know that they're like comparing what I was saying to like him until and I was like, yo, I don't I first like and people like, oh, you're trying to be like you know he was you know, found not guilty in courts, like the court system doesn't do anything. It's like, I don't believe in the court system. Like I think people got a twisted they thought, like I thought, we're saying the dude should have gone to jail, and

I don't believe in jail. I don't believe in police. I don't believe in prisons. I don't think most they're held a lot of survivors of sexual assault don't believe in that stuff or don't think that they'll find healing and that stuff, largely because they don't even when it's

actually addressed by the by these systems. Um So, like I was just I was talking about sort of like my whole comment an issue is just about like public record and discourse and and and sort of talking about an issue, and it got buried in like issues of like insensitivity about the timing of the tweet, and then

like my defensiveness against people. Uh and and you know, I think, you know, there are a lot of battle rap folks who were like like fans, battle rap fans will probably never listen to my music or anything and probably never read anything. They probably you know, probably only started paying attention to me again because of my coming back to battling. We're like just not in good faith dealing with what I said or my attempt to address it at just trying to make it the worst possible.

So there's a YouTube video someone saying like soul concept like some battle rap blogger and wrap the blog by other stuff too, like this is like soul con says that morning Kobe is disrespectful to sexual salt picked. It was like I literally never said but that was like the tent, Like I literally there's a tweet that says I didn't say that you shouldn't mourn this man. I did not say, Like there's nowhere I said that said

that whatsoever. Um hell, they were like even some like sort of legitimate journalists who I know who were like trying to like milk this for like clicks and likes and it's it's embarrassing and you know what it's And the funny thing at the end of the day is people like to pick and choose what they're offended by

or what they find to be outrageous. Um, you know, because I never you know, and then finding ironically I had a line in the battle about like when I diss do Fox, I basically said that he would like that. People say, look like Kobe, but who's actually the one who was getting a paraphrase assaulted in this just tear you know, it was terrible then, but these people were going nuts for that. These same folks probably were losing their mind. And my biggest battle three million views, never

as anyone at that time, and that was years. That was several years after the the you know that that case and what what it was that was that Okay, where are the where were the comments? Then I'm not saying even that that like you can't change your mind about things that I'm or change your mind about how you react to things, or you know, I'm living proof of that. And everyone should evolve and everyone should should think about these things in an act involved a way.

But no one cared bad um, No one cared when like Diz in the movie bodied even you know, it's like the battle rap movie post eight miles. It's interesting, it's it's I mean, Joseph Cohn, the guy who made it, is a real is a is a knob head. He sucks but like based on is really shitty. Uh all lives matter, wish attitude about everything that's him uh swollen recently. But this has a lot and I'm not this is not me being like to knock Diz, but just rather

like no one. There was no outcry when this movie came out only a few years ago where he brought this up earnestly, not like with a wink, like oh, he didn't do it like that. He said a line that has premised on the assumption that that you think that this man is referred to did the sexual so you know, like so people pick and choose. I mean, like Ron had a line about Eric, like calling big t like Eric Garner like mirror years like and and that's again he can move past the eye, but he

regrets it. I'm almost sure of it. But people really just I think people wanted a reason to get me out of here or whatever they want to do. A battle rap. You know, Childish Gambino had a trade online. Ohn, yeah it it's it's and I think he said I would die for yeah, like that's and that's and and I'm sure they're in his mind. Then he was like, oh yeah, that's really powerful. There's no there's no problem here. Um but yeah, so like that happened, and I think

I probably you know, there was talk about me. I feel like that might be one reason might not get booked again by a lot of folks. And that's but you think if they're not going to book me based on that, that's fine. My Spotify numbers didn't go down at all. My YouTube subscribers didn't go down. My my type, you know, the music fans stayed as I always have, even though I'm a turtle about releasing things. So that whole controversy, I like dipped off Twitter for a couple

of months, just like let people be like. I just I got off you know, of Twitter for a little bit after that and Instagram just because I thought, let people not have to see my face and get read re aggravated. It wasn't about me, like because I mean, how I do get some death threats, which sucked. But like you know, I'm always legally armed, So like, I

don't really sweat it too much. I don't believe it mysterious as to what that means exactly, but there's a I think I think they're like, it just wasn't It wasn't It felt like no one would get a chance to get over it. And I mean that like, uh oh, just get over me, but like to really genuinely like not have to. People were upset about his death, I don't need to. They don't need frustration to be compounded with it. Um. So I was like, all right, I'm I'll be out for a little bit. Um. So you

you mentioned earlier, um that not at all time. You know, you've always been a leftist, but you that hasn't always been reflected in your art or how you So, how do you find like recon eiling your leftist principles with not only the art that you make, but just the genre that you're involved in. I mean, just earlier you know this is definitely a leftist podcast, but you know, just earlier, me and you were kind of reminiscent DMX.

You know what I'm saying. If you go through d m X catalog you're gonna find a lot of ours here and there that aren't, you know, especially in Yeah, You're gonna gonna be looked at as quote unquote problematic. So like, how do you reconcile that? I think it's it's for my just from my part, like my contributions. Um, I just for the stuff I've already done that I

don't approve of. I just for the most part, I just sort of like have a general overall disclaimer for it that you know, I regret a lot of it, and if someone wants to talk about it and air what they're feeling about it, I will always be receptive to that. As my responsibility anyone who is hurt by directly or indirectly anything I've ever wrapped it is. It is there for the criticizing, as I think any art is.

But like, as the artist, I encourage people how they usually take me up on this, But like because I think you can tell, like I'm earnest about it. But if someone feels if someone feels like there's something I haven't addressed in my that catalog, whether songs or battles,

that is screwed up, then I'm fine. I'm fine addressing that and not you know, like, oh, I'm sorry you were offended way, but in a in a way that hopefully affirms their experiences and their feelings and shows that I sincerely learned from it and that it's it's it's hopefully I wouldn't repeat such indignities. And there might be stuff that I've I've dropped on my last project, you know, this past year, that I'll regret in a little bit too.

I don't think so, like I even like change. There's some stuff I changed going in, Like I had one line about like um, I said, like all right, like would you stand up or just stare at your feet embarrassed a something like embarrassed too scared to compete? And its like before the lines, this is like like when I first read this old not old verse, but I've repurposed older verse from like a little while ago, not

like a decade ago. But I said like stare at your feet or like remain in your seat like a paraplegic. And it's sort of like the rhyme scheme sounded dope, but like it basically was inadvertently kind of he was ablest you know, like like likening arab apolegism and and and and a disability to a like a lack of courage basically in the context that one like lining standing up as they you know, which I mean remain in your seat still. Maybe like that's a stretch with the depot.

But the fact that I got outright had it, like the word paraplegic in there, it was like, yeah, no, I don't need it, and so like like what when I had the chance to like redo this song for this project, it was like, that's going to change. It's interesting, you know. I was I was talking to a Mortal Technique a couple of weeks ago, and he saying that he was on the show and he was saying that on his next album in the middle passage whenever that comes out, he said, he doesn't use the N word

at all, Like he's like that's taken. He's like that's out of his vocabulary even in regular life too. So that was you know, people, people change all the time. Yeah, it's fair to admit, it's fair to I think it's just if people are honest about it. That's what matters. If you're honest and open to to to have like a good faith talk about it and and grow from it.

That's that's what matters. If I don't think the point is to like perpetually self flagellate and perpetually get like, I think that we also need to have a society where people can not just to be rewarded for their growth, but where they aren't perperpetually you know, condemned for it, you know. And unfortunately the Internet doesn't help with that. And this isn't about like cancel culture. It's rather about

like the unproductivity of accountability culture. Sometimes because of the fact that like pears cyclically, someone will like discover a bad media moment for the first time from someone who's famous, even though it's already been litigated before years ago, over and over again, and we there has to be some

more raise or or sort of norms around that. It's not can't be formalized because that sort of thing isn't thing you can really formalize, but things need to sort of promote the idea that if X person who did why bad thing makes earnest amends that we don't forget about everything. What's the point of amends If it's forgetting you, You don't learn something from that. But people can feel like they have the room to go on and we don't.

And the problem is it's funny that the people complain most about like cancel culture and like usually conservatives who helped build such and sustain a very punitive society, you know, and the ones who are always like, if they didn't create this punitive society, then they wouldn't have punitive judgmental

norms around everything, and that make them afraid. It's like the whole ideas, like it's the irony of like if Brett Kavanaugh hadn't been part of the world, then Brett Kavanaugh built, he might have there might have been a restorative justice space for everything that he did, you know,

but there isn't because of men like him. Yeah, why you know, and that I think that that that the same goes for like the anti PC culture folks, Yeah, anti s JW tis Yeah, yeah, you know if they they in other aspects of life, are very punitive, are very you know, love to shut down stuff that they don't like, so they're helping. I mean, that's like the whole chief organizing principle of their ship is to shut

down stuff that they don't like. It it's a fascism shuffle, is it's strictly just like what what is it that they like, you know what I mean, It's like they don't they don't even they literally don't even view it that way. It's like they have a blind spot in their mind that they can't even put that into a context.

How how they're like actually the biggest cancelers anybody in the country, and they and it its the ultimate the ultimate conclusion is like just like violent fascism, but like one of the places they go is like you end up with someone like Stephen Crowder who's like wandering around a different planet fitnesses or crunch Fitness or wherever, uh, pretending to be a trans person uh, and just being

obnoxious just for any gender uh. And and mean like oh look they're just you know, like like these stunts and because they don't actually have any positive vision of what life could be and wow, it could be better. Crowder reminds me like there was this about when I

was a kid, there was this comic book. It was like a Superman story where like Superman landed in communist Russia and Red instead, yeah, Red Sun, and he grew up to be like Stephen Crowder is like if Jim Carrey's shuttle that brought him to earth like landed in Russia MBOs Yard and he absolutely, yeah, No, that's a great. Yeah, it's it's it's weird because you have these folks who just because they either didn't get or they rejected an

intellectual cultural framework of like rational like modern thought thought. Yeah, they they're stuck with this ship. They're trying to fit, you know, a critique of modern ship into a very old fashioned, narrow minded and uncreative Hey, they can hold and they can't do it. They can't square it because it is not built for that. I mean, like you have people like you have, they're like anti postmodernism, even like people like which doesn't you can't, you can't compete critically.

Then if you think things like that, there's nothing like hearing somebody who's obviously stupid talk say stuff like postmodernism. Yeah, you know, like like seeing something like neck Beard anti s JW YouTuber like cultural Marxist post model, like you shut the funk up. And if if people haven't watched, I think the best um sort of video exploration of this issue is Natalie wins Uh ContraPoints video about Jordan

Peterson recommended. It's like that. It's it really delves into how it's a whole movement that is predicated on having basically not done the reading you really have to like, and that happened when when slavo Zek and Jordan Peterson debated, you could tell that, yeah, blood bath, it was terrible.

It's like you, you know, these these right wingers, especially like these YouTube proud and like the Internet era folks, they tend to be very uninformed and or just order wholly misinterpreted really like like the whole cannon that they think that they know they don't understand you, and it's it's but you know, to be fair, a lot of them wouldn't think the way they do if they I

did understand it, that's the problem. And whereas there are other folks who do understand this stuff and they don't care and they don't try to have the veneer of like, no, my vision of society is better for everybody. It's I don't care if my vision of society is better for everybody. That's not the point of society to me or this point of life. That that type of conservative or or or right that's I think that's starting to be the dominant form, like that they're coming back there, Yeah, because

that was the thing. And I think that that even Trump folks try to life. They want to feel good about themselves as people. I think everyone wants to, but like they like want to talk about how Trump like hell black people, for instance, like this is the lowest black unemployment ever. I think there's a conservative strain that's like who gives a ship? They don't care about that either, and they are going to be more openly genicidal in

their rhetoric. Rhetoric. Yeah, and also right now, I think like their their game is pretty much about like securing the bag first. Like I think they're trying, they're trying to be they're trying to be more inclusive as long as everybody's under the umbrella of fascism, you know what I'm saying. So it's like, yeah, what are you doing? You kind of zones? You black? But you fascists all right? You're cool? What are you doing? Milo? You're gay? But are you fascists all right with us? You know what

I'm saying. I think they're at that stage now, and then if they were to get their way, then they would worry about the particulars afterward. Yeah, then yeah, exactly.

That that's that is the that's been the game, and I think people will need to look at that's when when you know, I caution friends of mine and would be like, oh, you know, like when gay marriage became legal, They're like, oh, that's amazing that things are gone the way are are to a brighter future, and like there are like active like LGBT ashists in Europe prominent, and that's and then fast forward, we got my low fastward, you know, like it's not a we need to chill

on the whole, like premature congratulations on a brighter tomorrow because we're not there yet. And it adapts like a capital can co opt anybody, fascism could co opt, and like anyone could be co opertive. No one's immune to that. So can you talk to us a little bit about well not even a little bit, but like, can you talk to me talk to us about some of your activism that you do. Sure, I like, what's your what's your what what's your flavor of active? Yeah? Yeah, So

there's a couple of things. Um My, my nine to five is like supporting advocacy for immigrant rights in New York State and City and also a little bit of the federal stuff. I'm I'm a I'm a happy cog in the operation. Um, but you know, I also like no my lane. I like as I, as a white man, would feel very weird taking like a front row role or whatever like alter. You know, so happy to be a operations and logistics type of that's that's very happy too.

But then you know, and contribute my thoughts as needed. Um, what brought you into that? Like? What was I was in another job that was not cool. It was like just a desk thing that was not me. Um, and I got laid off and one of them and someone who I met in my activism with the Democratic Socialist in America, you know, recommended me for this job. And uh, you know at d s A is I work with them a lot. I was uh member of the South Brooklyn Organizing Committee of d s A for a couple

of years. I you know, have been uh you know, part of its electoral field operations before, Like I trained hundreds of camvusers before for different candidates. We've endorsed, and I've done you know, like martial and public safety, you know, work with their with the d s A marshaling like organization or you know something that I already call it. Uh. And so I do stuff like you know, getting I'm involved in like street protests for like uh, anti police,

anti racist stuff too. That's that's another another thing I do, UM and trying to think through how to do that in a productive, safe way safe for the protesters. I don't give a ship about safe for the cops or property that can whatever. So UM, I imagine you've been really busy with that stuff this last year. Yeah, And initially I had to, like when it first really really blew up in the early summer because of COVID, because like I just didn't know what was up and what

I had. I liked my mom was very very vulnerable, uh through to her health, and like I just I guess I was still in that like ten block bubble, very limited sort of life. I kind of waited a little bit, like several weeks after the first initial like a bunch of protests, to be like, are people getting COVID from this, because like it'd be one thing for

me to risk myself. I can't, you know. But like then I was like helping my mama's stuff, you know, like this is when we didn't even know whether like surface transmission wasn't an issue yet for COVID, and I, you know, I you know, got in and started going to actions and marches, and it coincided with pushes for the New York City Council to defund the police, which they did not, and they basically did a whole like shell game that made it look like they took money

away from the cops and they ultimately didn't. Um And that's still ongoing, still ongoing fight, and that budget is coming back up for consideration in the streets for that. UM. Yeah, I've been active, Yeah, very active as a result. That's what's up man. Well, yeah, it's been super fucking dove talking to you. Yeah, I appreciate you taking the time to talk to you. Man. Where can people find you at your music and just your work? So if they just go on if they google me, you know what, actually,

screw that, go of the platforms themselves. I think that's the best way. Spell my name s O U l k h A N. And whether that's in searching on Spotify, on title, Apple Music, or on Twitter, Instagram, I'm usually the only I'm usually soul con on everything at Facebook, like I though I'm not on Facebook as much, likely on my fan page, you know, like and there's I just dropped the project, I should say just it's almost a year ago. But in July UM dropped an EP

called grow Up. It's really good. I think people should listen to it. I it's on soul Spasm. I think it. Unfortunately, their timing was kind of set and I didn't know how to change that. And if got overshadowed by everything happening, and that's okay. It would be weird to complain about that. UM. But if if they see like people are like, oh I like soul comm but I didn't realize release anything, there's probably a reason because the other more important stuff

was going on. It still goes on, UM. If you know, I'm hopefully going to release another thing by the summer, another EP, and we'll see from there and hopefully people like that. And I'll be doing more videos of me rapping just in my home probably and it should be cool and I hope people enjoy the music. If they ever see me promoting something that they can get involved in politically, I encourage them too. And if people have questions about how to get more involved in many types

of activism. I'm happy to point them in the right direction if I'm not the right person to get them involved. And yeah, yeah, my My my main priority right now is doing whatever I can while being a healthy person. Two further better world. That's what's so bad? Yes, sir, that was Battle Rapper extraordinare so kind. I was really looking forward to that interview. I'm really glad I got a chance to finally do that. He is. That's it's It's funny. I've been watching his uh clips on YouTube

for the longest time. And then I was just by chance doing a show in Brooklyn and he was in the crowd and I saw him and he was just there like super incognito, and I was like, yeah, what the funk? I know who you is? Yeah I can't act like yeah, okay, but um yeah, y'all make sure y'all check out some of his stuff. I'm not only you know the things that he's into politically, but y'all also check out some of his music and some of his battles online. But let's get into this music discussion.

We're gonna be taking it back talking about some classic classic Battle tracks just over the year, or is the art of battling on wax is a completely different animal, you know, in itself. You you've got the battling on stage, but then you have another art form in itself, which is when two people have a problem with each other and they write raps about it and record whole songs

that live on forever and ever. So up first, we're gonna be going back to probably what is considered you know, the most not the first battle, but like the most impactful battle. Actually, I think this is my many considered the first rap battle like really like the like the first rap Like nobody, nobody somewhere did this before this happened.

This was like the first like add a show like in the in the in the in the spirit of like eight Mile, like ed a venue to rappers, like had a battle, Okay, so that yeah, this is like the Harlem World Christmas celebration. In the severer of one, Cool Moody went up against Busy Be and I guess, you know, at least the most celebrated but by many

considered like the the quintessential first rapattle. They used to be that like mainly like party rockers would win battles, and you know, as long as you get the crowd hype, the person who gets the crowd the hype, this is

the one who wins. But this is like, this is that instance where you know, Kumo d got on stage and really just out wrapped Busy Be and showed that like lyricism was like a whole new gear taken, taking this battle rap stuff into So let's check a lout a little, right, because I think I think like at the inception of hip hop, the m C was sort of like a hype man for the DJ and that like it was about just adding an extra layer of cadence and like getting the crowd hyped up, et cetera.

This was like, nah, actually you can take you can take em C into a whole different level where like yeah you'll see you'll see Yeah, everybody in cempo clubs, the con you can win, they're all fed ut come in, but you know you lose. You pick up wanted to shoot. I got fat new because they they're gonna hear some

movies like you're taking the pub, you're packing. Yeah, I mean it's like nuts that Busy Bee was like up there hyping the crowd and then called out Coolmodi who was in the venue, and Cool Moody was like, not funk that, and it's like went on stage and just three styled at Busy be like Helena, and it was all hits, all hits, like like everything that Kubod was, he wasn't wasting any motion. It was just all disses.

Every line was a diss but he he eviscerated him in that in turn, you know, grew the legend of Kubo D, who went on to have of various other classic battles you know down the lines, including one famous one with l O cou Ja. Yeah, let's hop onto the next one. We got uh between Boogie Down Productions just KRS one and Scott l. Rock versus the Jewice Crew. Um, it was like a misunderstanding that the Juice Crew said that hip hop started in Queens when BBD came out.

So they came up with South Bronx, Um, you know, a song about where you know the true quote unquot true birthplaces of hip hop and then Jewice Crew responded with kill that Noise and then b b D came back where the bride is over Yes, scathing response, let's check that out to help them, Nickio making the Brooklyn Keepslo taking the bronkeeps in the Queen's keeps Fake come

up to it. And so I feel like this was kind of the beginning of a trend that we see nowadays where rappers who have beefull trade tracks and kind of go back and forth, like as we've moved from like an analog age into a more digital one where you might not be in the same venue on the same night and calling each other out, but you might have soundclouds, you might have Twitter, and you might talking shit at each other all these virtual platforms like you

you go back and forth with like SoundCloud tracks about like you know, fuck you, I heard You've got a secret child. Like Also, this adds like a new personal layer onto it too, because it's like what was once just like a competition that happens in the moment and then it's over. Now you're adding in the layer that it's like, hey, these dishes are going to exist forever. It doesn't matter that it doesn't matter now that it's

like thirty years later. And these guys were probably you know, a lot of them involved to probably like squash be for moved on or in different phases of life. But you have, like this insult that you said about this other person that lives on forever, it's always gonna be there. And not only that, but it's too it's to slam in music people people are gonna listen to for other forever. So I've I've only had one distract made about me once, but it got the guys who did it took it

down after I made my responseship. It was like it was like it was my first you know, I was looking forward to, like going back and forth. I was like, oh man, how how y'all gonna stop after this? The

first one I was just gonna started. But that brings us, That brings us to the last track that we got, which I mean, in my opinion, you know, I've in preparation for this and just for other things, I must have listened to like sixty or seventy different battle tracks, obscure stuff that none of y'all even heard of, because you didn't even know such and such were beefing and

stuff like that. But I have to say, after listening to all those battle tracks, I think that this next joint is probably the best recorded battle track in hip hop's history. In my opinion, this is Cannabis with second round knockout. Let's check this out. And like a truck free role model, you discussed me. I know, bitches to

see you smoke weed recently. You walk around showing off your body because the sales postable avoid the fact that you ain't got scales mad at me because I kicked that ship real nick a spell when I did not

be sending your fans with high hells Kumo feed to change. Yeah, and so here we see a little bit of that like discursive hierarchy being created, like when he's talking about like, um like most of your fans, and most of your fans were like oh applying that like oh you're more feminine because you're a fan base is feminine reinforcing, you know. Let me give a little backstory to this beef. So this is uh. This was the Cannabis uh response in a battle between him and Legendary for L. L cool

J and I can't believe that I'm old enough. You know what I'm saying, but it's it's crazy. So they did a music video shoot and Cannabis looked up to L. COUJ like you know, like a god and ship and this Cannabis was a new rapper and he was doing this song with a method man, Red Man, DMX and

l Couj. Right, so for Cannabis is like, oh snap pho on the song with these guys, it's crazy, And um, l Coj has a famous microphone tattoo on his arm, so I guess something happened in Cannabis like made a comment about like, oh, I want like a microphone tattoo just like that. So they filmed the video and then l rewrote his verse and mentioned that conversation like you

can't grab this mic on my arm. So you know, it was kind of like a disk and everybody knew it was a disc to Cannabis because Cannabis and then you know, went and got a microphone tattooed on his arm, and then that song came about. So Cannabis made this is like the response and started like a whole thing between them, which you could make a whole documentary and a podcast about the battle between those two dudes in particular.

But oh man, where where can I start? I mean, it's definitely has a cringe moments, you know, it's and obviously the sensibilities of it or definitely out of step today, but from just like a technical aspect of a battle rap song. It's again what Kumo'd did in his freestyle back in the eighties. I think what Cannabis does with this is like he creates something where every line is

about l O COO J. You know. And for me what made it refreshing at the time is that it was something that was solely based in rap and in music. This is coming off of the heels of Tupac and Big You both getting killed because of some street ship that you know what I mean, that the media kind of manipulated into being being involved with music when it

really wasn't. So for me, you know, it was like being young when the song came out and seeing that it was like, no, this was a beef between two rappers about how well they rapped over some rap ship, you know what I'm saying, and and and you know, and like like everything that they said about each other was based in that that field of like, yo, I'm

a better rapper than you. Even like even even the line that that um, the line of your fans were high heels is more in reference, you know, just at the time was more in reference to like, yo, you're not even rapping for people who like listening to rap, because that was the stereotype back then, is that girls want to see L COJ when a shirt off and

YadA YadA, YadA dada. So but I mean, it's it's it's a class Just just even thinking about that makes me smiles, Like I wish that when rappers in the two thousand's have beef with each other and they're making songs that it's like a battle of wits and people like, you know what I mean, like exaggerating ability and stuff like that, and not like yo, I'll spray your grandmother with the drum, you know what I mean, Like I'll pissed the whip you with the smack you with the tool.

You know. It's like, yeah, maybe I'm just nah. I mean, I've been talking about a lot of these shootings here in Athens in recent episodes, and I was talking to the father of one of these kids that got killed. Apparently people was like jealous that he was blowing up musically, and people like and like a bunch of people conspired to like take this twenty year old child's life. So like, yeah, it goes like, Yo, I'm gonna spread your car up and then let people to people a literal literally go

spread your car up. Yeah, I mean yeah, Hey, if if it's like the words are power, you know what I'm saying, It's like we we all have the right to say what we want. But it's like ship can manifest, you know what I'm saying, So you to that extent, it's like you gotta be mindful of things that you put out there in the world, you know. But that's it for us today. We are going to bounce, but you know we're gonna be back next week with some dope ship. Hey, Joel, you drop a beat reparations waiting

the refaration? Yeah yeah, Yo, Who the hell ill of the knife? Riddle me that? Do you all know where I'm lyrically? Yet I'm lyrically at a level levitating you chumps because I'm sitting in the woods meditating with monks. Then I'm breaking a blunt and I'm thinking a skunk because i gotta smoke like every day to month. I want battle's first place, not a favorite stunt. Should I make a favorite rapap staying a slump, I'll rework it until let's see perfect. I did freestyle battles, No read

her ship. I did freestyle battles, don't read her ship. I'm on stage to be Batchel, thinking to myself to look how peek got gap teeth, to watch taxis more the fat keys, the class geek a better slash beets. I'll be going for his family like, hey, ty, your mama got a supper walking last week? Or maybe I was passing the gases trashy but to look a little closer, but the fragrance were so nasty I had to hal a taxi to a different galaxy. Now the crops clapping

and gas thing, I'm beating. That's Battley mother for a little stad We we can tearing each other down for props and freads, specially when he's in fact on my mom's dead. I'm Franka. I'll dope knife and we are waiting, and your mama sucks dix in hell. I hate everything about you, hate the way you look. Hey hey, hey, hey hey hey, but for real now we'll see you next week. Listen to Waiting on reparations. Something I heard radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast A sk