Portland on my Mind

taking your back. You don't listen to them, and they're shooting you in the back of like funk that, and you know I'm about to attack. I'm about to go and just dunk on them like our name was Shock and this is not basketball and make a fall when they got to grab the fucking phone and call them black carrot. You about to raise a red Harry. And now I'm about to go and just show you that I'm piercing because I'm the dope knife and this is Lingua rank everybody coming, thank God when I come up

in the place. So yeah, I'm about to hit you in the face, make you feel like you're a lazer. I'm more lazy on the feat when I slightly haven't done it lately. It's all right because I'm skate team so smoothly. She's skate teas all these motherfucker's seat he hate team. Now I gotta show you how we're about to do the late thing. Get up on the microphone recording late at night. Everybody know we be the illest with the mic device and we hold it down. We're

coming around with that bomb fast. Motherfucker's get on the mic. Listen to our podcast. You better call us god fast because I got robs in it. Out last something that salvageable, like the first part I did, hold the whole first two. Whole first two was fine. Okay, we are waiting onations. Hurry, So how's everybody doing out there? Can hear? You'll give

you three seconds. It feels like the nap thing to ask, like, you know, now that we're getting the groove of it, you know, I got my sunglasses on at night, I feel like I should like break the freestyle with, Hey, how's everybody doing out there? I said, how's everybody doing out there? You know? Oh man, don't get me reminded about being on stage. I know, I know, I know,

I know. So how was your week? It's good. I actually just got back from a rally in solidarity with Jacob Blake, who we're going to talk about a little bit today at City Hall. About a hundred people showed out, and we kind of put it together pretty last minute, I mean, because this is like breaking news. Um. There were like four counter protesters. There were wearing maga hats, um, no maga hats that didn't have Jesus related signs, and one of them kept yelling like y'all, Like what was

he saying? It was like black babies don't matter, that's why y'all support abortion. And they called me out by name on some ship, but we were like just chanting, like chanting too loud for anyone to actually hear them. That allortion one actually might be fresh in their head because the Republican National Convention things going on right now, and they had this anti abortion lady who was talking about how plant parenthood was racist, eugenics campaign to destroy

the black community and stuff. Yeah, because you know, the maggots are the most concerned with what's going on in the black community. But that's I've been, you know, doing my political junkie thing and watching the these conventions and the coverage and analysis and stuff like that. Just say, it's very difficult to do. But I've been doing it since I was like sixteen, so I might as well just keep tradition going. But it's sucking, yo. I mean

we were talking about a little bit earlier. But people who were you know, I guess of the left persuasion, it would serve them well to not completely be in the dark about what's going on on the other side because they're fucking nuts. I mean, that ship is like fucking trap music for white people. Yo. They are just soaking it up and reveling in some pretty ugly stuff over there. But um, speaking of ugly stuff, the shooting at Jacob Blake. Yeah, let's go ahead and get into

some of that. So on Sunday, uh, as many of us know by now, twenty nine year old father Jacob Blake's breaking up a fight in this neighborhood and Conoshal, Wisconsin. When the cops arrived on scene, and subsequently social media video circulated of Blake walking away from the cops, who had their guns drawn while attempting to get into his vehicle, and the cop pulled on the back of his shirt and fired his gun seven times, point blank into Blake's back.

Three of his kids were in the car when the shooting occurred, and in fact, it was one of the children's birthday. Seeing that on your birthday, that's gonna Yeah, it's gonna change that child's life forever. I mean yeah, forever. Ever, straight up traumatized. I mean, how do you feel that the whole thing terrible? I mean, I know it's it's

like another one in a long string of cases. But does this strike you in any particular way at the same time, Like, I feel like, you know what happened if Jacob is terrible, and I'm really glad that he's okay, even though he is less on the ways down from what I've heard. Um, Like, this kind of has to keep happening in order for people to continue to push. Like there was a really big explosion of energy earlier

in the summer. In some places it's been sustained through the summer, and other places they've taken early losses and kind of picked up their ball and gone home. In places like Athens, for example, where people feel kind of discouraged when their initial efforts were thwarted by some of their city officials, etcetera. Um, And so I'm glad people are back in the streets. I'm glad people are margining and protesting and you know, taking up this mantle again.

It's so sad it takes this to happen for us. You get back that out there and keep fighting. But maybe it has to be this way. There are martyrs for the cause of drawing people's attention to the the deeply just deep down in its core, rotten nous of our system of policing. I just don't understand if you're gonna be that scared of ship, Like why are you even a cop in the first place, Like, I mean, the police job is supposed to be. Is it a

thirst for violence? I really know. I think it's like if you want to be treated as a hero, then the whole thing about it is that you're like not supposed to react like a normal motherfucker with the situation. You know, like your job is supposed to be to risk your life, to protect everybody, that risk everybody's life, protect yourself, Like like I mean, obviously we don't know why the cops had their guns drawn in the first place,

but it doesn't matter. Why do you have fucking guns drawn? Like, like, I mean, there's just there's no there's no explanation that could come out of it that justifies shooting somebody seven times in the back. There's nothing. Nothing. Even if they were to say, like we were afraid that he was reaching into his car to get a gun, it's like, then fucking get shot. You signed up for this job. I mean, you signed up for this job to put your life on the line for the citizenry of Kenosha wherever.

Like why, Like I don't understand. It's ill. How when when you don't want the motherfucker's to use any for us, then they're beating people's ass. Yeah, when they should just beat somebody's ass or rough them up, they're shooting them

seven times, you know. I mean, it's like, what the there's never like, there's never like proportionate for It's never a proportionate I mean, like, in all honesty, if that had been hey don't go to your car, Hey, don't go to your car, and then they grab them and stopping him from getting getting his car, we're having a completely different conversation right now, completely different conversation, and somebody's

not paralyzed from the waist down. And I mean, I hope he gets a grip of money from those motherfucker's, you know. But when he does get a grip of money from those motherfucker's, it's gonna come out of the city's budget that could be otherwise spent. It's not gonna come out of the police pension. It's not gonna come out of the police budget. Is going to come out of their general fund um that could otherwise have been

spent on youth development programming, on cultivating community gardens. And so that's problem with I mean, like, yes, get the money, but like we gotta fix the way that city governments do that ship too, Like the Kenosho City Council. Whoever, when when they paid out that money for Jacob Blake, they need to take it out of the police budget

or the police pension. Well, we talked in a earlier episode and I kind of mentioned how just personally I didn't think that defund the police was necessarily the best

slogan as it were. But if you want like an idea that I think a majority of people could get, get you know easily get on board for as if you make when cops get sued for misconduct and stuff and police departments get sued if it comes out of their pension, like more like that'd be like if you'll suck around one more time, like if something like that, if something like that did pass, watch how quick stuff would be. They'd be more hesitant to pull out their

gun on somebody. So in response, connotions took to the streets, knocking an officer at the scene of a shooting out with a brick to the head, arching on, breaking into the police department and ransacking it, setting fire to the county courthouse, as well as a garbage truck that have been positioned as a barricade. UM. I believe it later exploded um in addition to several dozen cars at at

least one auto dealership. And that was just Sunday night, Okay, So Monday night protests continued with about a thousand, two thousand people taking to the streets, setting fire to the Department of Corrections, provoking cops to deploy tear gas second night in a row to disburse the crowd. Echoing seems familiar. As protests reached their ninetieth Day. Yeah, I saw at least one Portland based organizer tweet out for weeks people

all of the world marched in solidarity with Portland. Tonight, Portland marches with Kenosha, which brings us to our topic of today, Portland, Oregon. Portland quickly blew up and somewhat faded from the national consciousness as earlier the summer they fitted off federal troops deployed there to quell the uprising.

But we're left with some lingering questions, particularly what is really at the root of the Portland protests, How does Portland hip hop community feel about the Portland uprising, and how has it taken part and a little bit we're gonna be talking with Max Smith, Portland based hip hop journalists and police abolitionists. But first some background in the Portland City Council budget talks of the summer, and some lessons other municipalities can gain from the work they've done.

Their work. Many would argue still have a long way to go to Portland's seventies percent white, but it's no stranger to cops gutting down black Portlanders in the last decade. Former Portland in a CP president and the first ever black women elected to the Portland City Council. Commissioners Joe and hard to See called out white Portlanders for their silence around the slayings of Kendrick James in two thousand and three, Aaron Campbell in two thousand and ten, and

other black residents in recent years. Now mid that silence. The Portland Police Bureau's budget has gone from two hundred and fourteen point nine million in two thousand seventeen to two hundred and thirty one point six million twenty eighteen to two hundred and forty one point five million twenty nineteen.

In May, the Portland City Council unanimously approved the city budget that included amendments allocating six hundred thirty three thousand dollars to the Portland Street Fund, a city contract police alternative that we'll talk about a little bit later, as well as five hundred and forty seven thousand dollars in local cannabis tax dollars to fund social equity grants. Together, fire and police makeup about six of the half a

billion dollars city budget. But then just a couple of days later after they approved this initial budget, the uprising began costing them word to go back to the negotiating table and trying to meet public demands, which at the time community consensus was a call for a fifty million reduction in their children forty something million dollar police budget. On the second go around, the Portland City Council passed a budget that redirected more than fifty million dollars from

the police bureau to other city programs and initiatives. The cuts included disbanding police units that work in schools, that investigate gun violence, and those that patrol the regional public transit system, bringing the police budget down to about two d million dollars. Now that reduction on police that investigated gun violence, is that necessarily a good thing, though, so

I believe. I read that they had done an audit of the work that this task course had under undertaken in recent years and found that, you know, it was over policing black Portland, it was discriminatory. And so I mean, sure, investigate gun violence generally, but if the system you have in place isn't working and echoes calls that you know have been become common across the country at this point, that you disband the rotten system and put something new

in place that actually gets the work done. So from the way that you're talking about, it sounds like it might have been one of those like rogue you know, rogue units that they create, like the crash unit in l A that went rogue, and it was pretty much being drug dealers themselves, like pretty much just abusing the part when you have these little you know, special task force within police departments and they have like special powers and special you know privileges that kind of get away

with things and then start going overboard with us. So I would argue that in this case, it's not even going rogue enacting what police departments do effectively, but when you actually like get into the data of that looks like on the department department or you know, are they actually are they actually stop? Yeah, so um complicated vote.

You know, some folks that research and our practitioners and alternatives to policing have found that with particularly gang violence, having um former gang members mediate gang conflicts as a way is can be a very effective way of like producing at least gang related gun violence. And so there's alternatives that exist that maybe can get funded in their

next year's budget. But I think cracking down on in like you know, wiping out uh sub department that's not working like kindative is in line with this abolitionist way of that is resting all across the country anyway. So Commissioner Hardesty had harsh words for the folks who have said it isn't enough. I want you to know that it is not appropriate for you to say that I have not gone far enough. She said, you don't know the shoes that I've walked in for over the thirty

years that I've lived in Portland. And I understand where she's coming from. I mean, cop between the seemingly utopian demands if a radicalized public and the dead end realities of governance, like when you like the police of the police to bureau is going to argue that every single dime they get is essential and that there can't be any budget cuts anywhere. And so that's the nature of like most government agencies. They're gonna they're going to argue

for their survival by any means necessary. And so it it hinders our ability to think critically and creatively about where cuts are possible, because if someone's telling you, if you're asking supposedly the experts on how a department is run, where can we cut the fat? And they're not giving you anything, Like you're not the expert. How are you supposed to know? Like how are you supposed to call

them bullshit? And so I run into issues like that all the times, where like the framing of the debate of what is possible, Like like we we turn to these experts, these engineers, these you know, traffic designers, these steward experts, and you you like want to like rely on their expertise, but you don't know, um uh, you don't have any specific what do you can talk about? Do you specific example? I mean like, um, I mean

the police department here? Yeah, fucking police department here. Um. When we're designing anything from like sidewalks, you're leaning on the expertise quote unquote of like these uh design contractors, etcetera. Like I don't have a background of that. I have to most of the time trust that their calculations and their estimates and they're all that stuff is you know, informed by you know, is data driven and informed by

like really robust educational background. But what if they're fucking around? What if they're fucking line to mean, what are they funk about? To me about how much sidewalk costs. How might I supposed to another line to me about how much the sidewalk costs. And so you know, that's what we run into all the time with civil servants that have to be these jack of all trades for this variety of kinds of public good the government is in charge of delivering. So let's talk a little bit about

Portland Street Response. Yeah, so they up their investment in their police alternative program in the Portland Street Response to four point eight million in this revised budget. Now. PSR is modeled after a program in Eugene, Oregon known as CAHOOTS or Crisis Assistants Helping Out on Our Streets, which is run by um an organization called the White Bird Clinic.

So Whitebird Clinic launched CAHOOTS as a community policing initiative in That's all right, thirty one years ago, before we were even having this conversation in the main stream, the HOOTS was operating as a police alternative that the city contracts with the handle crisis related to homelessness, intoxication, and

substance abuse. The program mobilizes two person teams consisting of a medic there's a paramedic getting at something like that um as well as a crisis worker who has to stand till training and experience in the mental health field. The COHOPS teams deal with a wide range of mental health related crises, anything from conflict the resolution the substance abuse, to welfare checks, suicide threats, and more, reling on a

trauma informed de escalation and harm reduction technique. Now, according to the newspaper The Oregonian, CAHOOTS, the o G version of PSR fields about of all calls to nine one one another non emergency lines to the Greater Eugene, Oregon area in two thousand eighteen. Of the twenty two thousand calls the CAHOOTS responded to, less than a hundred and

fifty led to CAHOOTS requesting police for backup. Program leaders estimated that it saves the city of Eugene seven million dollars annually in medical costs and an estimated eight point five million dollars in public spending every single year because so many of the people that the non police teams help would otherwise end up in emergency rooms or you know, in jail. So how so that's been going on for

a while. Thirty one years they've been doing it in Eugene and I'm not sure how recently they piloted it in UM in Portland the PSR version that's sort of modeled after cahoots. But uh, with the additional funding that was approved for it in their second round of their budget talks, they're able to to like spread it out over wider area in the city UM And uh, yeah, well,

I mean that's that's interesting. I wonder if the police backup comes with them on the scene or if it's requested, like after they got check out after Okay, I was I think I was reading or watching something with someone who was a social worker who that they were talking about defunding the police, and they were making that case that they were like, well, would I be able to have back up with me just in case I needed it?

Because they were talking about how domestic domestic disputes usually kind of do end with violence that they might Yeah. So the way it works here, we have mental health UM response teams that consist of a mental health professional and a police officer that are floyd when there's suicide threats or someone having some sort of mental health breakdown.

Our crisis and that model is okay. But like if I am on the verge of killing myself and the cops show up, it's like, that's a perfect I'm going to provoke that motherfucker so that he'll shoot me and it's suicide by cop. We've had that. I mean, we've had people, you know, like one of the police murders that happened last year, a gentleman had a knife and he was shouting at the cops to do it, do it, do it, and they did it, and they fucking shot

him dead. And so I mean the way that armed response if any kind, escalates these kinds of situations, you know, weighing that against yeah, what does what happens if it does escalate. But in the case of who it's twenty calls only a fifties, they need to call armed back up and they were able to, you know, non violently. Otherwise the escalate the situation. Um. So, I think this is a really interesting example of expanding specialized responses to crises.

What police abolition could look like is piloting more and more programs like these, tailored let's say, to domestic violence or disputes, hiring former gang members, I go saying earlier to de escalate gun conflicts until you've got this really wide umbrella of crisis responses, in addition to, of course, full funding for social services that help curb crimes of survival.

This month, Oregon Senator Ron Wyden has recently proposed a national alternative to using police's first responders to mental health crisis. The Cahoots Act is modeled after Eugene's eponymous program and would provide medicaid match for local municipalities across the nation that implements such program. Too bad they haven't expanded medicaid in Georgia. Fucked again. Portland has surpass us it's eightieth day of continuous protests since the George Floyd uprising began

in May. And today we're joined by Max Smith, Portland hip hop journalists and promoter, an advocate for defunding and abolishing the Portland Police Bureau. You're gonna talk to us a little bit about the Portland hip hop scene and its role in the uprising. There, Mac tell us a little bit about who you are and how you got where you are today, particularly your involvement in the Pacific Northwest hip hop scene through projects like The Thesis and We out Here Magazine. Yeah, I'm Max Smith. Um, I'm

a dad. I feel a concerts here called the Thesis, and I've run We out Here magazine, which is an online blog that focuses on hip hop culture for the last think it or so, Um I've been I thought what the Thesis for about five years until the COVID hit. We had five years traded concerts and and most of the things I do, the goal is to not really become like a big corporation or a big you know, a big organization, but rather to just try and bring in profit or money and then it spread that throughout

our community. So like with a Thesis, it's a concert that's completely um fueled by a door fees and so it's a really no frills, no guest list type of event that actually has a lot of of culture and art involved in it. And we ensure that all the artists are are are paid and so there's no money that goes back to anybody. It just all goes to the artists. So in most of the projects that I work on, they kind of work in that way where it generates income for people who are doing the work

and minimizes the incomfortable that are organizing. So with that, um coming into this, all of this um protests life, I'm no stranger to dealing with the police and dealing with the different city organizations that kind of have have worked to oppress so over the years to just based on working in music, not being a person that that coordinate with the police has always been a thing in

my life. So UM, as this came up, I kind of had a position already in that regard and people already knew me in that regard, so um that allowed me to do the work pretty well. How often have you been out in the streets since everything started going down and what type of things if you witnessed out there? UM, I would probably say, without saying too much, I'm probably out of the nights that we're out. Um the nights

I'm out. Um. All the work though, isn't done at night at the protests, you know though, that's I think a big thing to keep in mind that with the protests being there, you know, the physical portion of being there with the police and all that, that's really just a small part of the protests. So I mean, realistically, I'm active every day, is there is there anything in particular that you see that's kind of being misrepresented about

the protests just in the broader national media. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a that's a deep one. Um. Pretty much everything is being is being misconstrued about the protests. I mean, from who's protesting to what we're protesting for. Um, it's all been misconstrued. So when you think about it, this is a protest of Portland, Oregon, a majority white city where you have a lot of people all banding together two to dismantle the police, um as they exist here.

So that's really the purpose of what we're here to protest for. And UM, that's that's rarely represented in the in the main media. I mean they're almost always just saying that we're here for black lives matter, We're here for um, you know, education reform, we're here for financial reasons, and we're not We're here to disband the police and and use that money for our communities. UM. I think

that's that's probably the main thing. The other thing that's often misconstrued is that is who's running the protest, and really it's a really multicultural assortment of people who are into this. UM. But there's this idea that it's being fueled by like Antifa, white kids who are definitely out there part of the collective, But that's not the whole story by any means. Um. There's also a lot of

stories about the violence that occurs. And um, the same thing kind of happened in Seattle where people who really weren't a part of the protests started doing crazy stuff and then the police blame on the protest. So there's a lot of that currently going on. And also they're not talking about how we're being repeatedly attacked by white supremacist in the streets and the police student do nothing about it. In fact, a lot of them areful there

were shots fired. I actually had a bomb with the recently and then and yeah, and so I follow a lot of independent Portland journalists who cover that kind of thing. But that's not the type of thing you see on CNN, not at all. Is the no. No is the protesters defending themselves or they latch onto property damage and things like that, rather than right the lives that are at stake. When someone tries to drive their truck there a crowd. Yeah,

and that's and that's factual. That's factual. Um, that's what they do. They allow these this violence to occur on one side, and then they and then they on the other side. They just don't even talk about it that I think it's not even happening. It seems like there's almost like an effort to push the narrative that there's not many black voices that are behind the protests. Why

do you think that is? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean all of the attempts to change the narrative of what the protests are about or who is behind it, I believe are coordinated. I don't believe any of it's accidental. Um, that's not how these things work. People don't just start saying I'm going to go to the protest every single day and cause problems like why would you do that? You know what I mean? So I definitely think there's

coordination on all levels of it. Um. I think there's coordination to try and change the narrative of who is doing what and and also who's in charge of what, because in real this is a very natural organic grassroot, this thing that's occurring here. There's no one saying, hey, we're gonna meet every day at this place, and that's what happens. It's literally people just deciding and going to spot and that's why you're seeing protests, which they also

don't talk about. You see protests in different parts of town every day, so the protestings aren't aren't huge, but there's also like there might be thirty people at the police station in the north, a hundred and fifty people at the union office, and there might be another fifty five people somewhere else that you know, a county building of protesting and the police are dealing with all of that as a result instead of just disbanding and and

re building. Can you talk to us a little bit about some of the behind the scenes organizing that goes on that doesn't catch the eye of the media that you were referring to a little bit earlier. So, yeah, there's a lot of organizing that occurs in the in the form of mutual aid. So that's been that's been a huge thing they've also not talked about much in the media. And as well as that, they've also used um they've also at hacked our mutual aid. So there

have been a really some really good things. When the protests first started and they were going downtown and whatnot, especially after the East Side big parades kind of ended. Um, there was a lot of mutual aid. A lot of actually came out at the big place on the East Side. But there were systems that were put in place for medical care for the protesters. That's for your charge, uh, food around the clock for the protesters, as well as the homeless, and the and the and the medal care

also applied to the homeless. So over the first probably a month and a half two months the protests, there was a ton of mutual aid. Crime actually dropped around the city. UM. And if you don't, if you don't I know about I think like sixty percent of our

emergency calls go to work homeless situation. So when the hobo started getting fed every day and eating every day off of the donations from you know, just crowdsource the donations, UM, that changed a lot, changed a lot, and it changed our narrative that this this revolution really one of substances. It is one that actually provides for the people where

the city and the government have not. There's never been an end to hunger importland until we started protesting, and we end hunger too early, and then we had a free healthcare. We in fact, you still have a free healthcare athority protest because we have so many doctors and nurses and medics that have that are are volunteering that they've just organized and created essentially free healthcare. I got a shot in the face wearing a face shield and unfortunately at a supper day a pretty good nod in

a concussion. And I didn't get any big, any bill for the chief that I got. And other people actually shop like with bullets and they've actually pulled bulls out of people, so you know, it's it's it's a real thing. There's no ambulance views, you know, if they have to take you to the hospital. And that's the whole thing is like through the struggle, there's a lot of positive you know, a lot of positivity that can be enacted.

It took you know, Obama was elected twelve years ago and obviously universal healthcare and and we did it in two weeks. So it's really a mental will in a manner of saying that if we are resisting, then we are resisting everything. And as that grows, start to see them attacking our mutual aid. They destroyed riot Race, which was lighting the food. They they've tried to to destroy the med trucks, the med cards, They've been popping the tires on the snap bands, um, all those kind of

things that libor food and sustenance to the protesters. They've attacked all of those things. So that's a really big point is that they're they're not attacking those things because attacked, but reason they're doing it because they don't want us to be independent. Yeah that's right, that's right. Yeah, what has what was the mood as the national media at the federal jack boots descended upon Portland, and what has

the mood been since those forces have retreated. I think the big thing about the federal occupation was that it was really unexpected and it was really violent. Um. I really just feel like it was an escalation that was intended in order to in order to be able to de escalate later to the normal levels of a police of violence and be able to consider that to be

a win. UM. So kind of you know, if someone's bullying you and you could playing, they bully you harder and then they go back to bullying you, you know you normally and you just say that's as close to no, um, But that's not something that we're falling for. The mood just basically got more aggressive when they came. We just became more upset. You know, as they escalated their tactics, we escalated our defense tactics. And that's really what the mood you know was. They really just got us tighter.

You know. Well, since the fans have left, a lot of the people are out of the battle. You know, a lot of people really came out because before the fence came, there were a few hundred people every night. I've just centered, you know, protesting and get mad whatever else. But um, when the fans came there with thousands, everyone's like, no, screw that, They're not gonna come occupied, you know what

I mean. So that brought out a different contingent oftentimes. Um, and when the fans left a lot of those people went home. Okay, we've fought off the fans and we're done. So we kind of expected that, like you had to expect that drop off. Some people came out because the Feds were here that they don't actually have a big beef with the police. They might support it, but the fans are are I'm going outside. So a lot of people now are back in their homes and they're still supporting.

Some people have states since the fans came because they just saw how bad it was and they realized the whole game plan. But the the the numbers are lower now and at this point right now, UM, we're really dealing with a lot of the counter insurgency stuff with um, you know, again the protests that are not a part of the protests that are attacking people downtown and doing

things that the nature that get really bad press. Um. You know, if you see a black guy downtown and he attacks somebody, then all of this and it looks like a black you know, Lives Matter protest or whatever is doing something. So there's a lot of bad right now.

And so the the mood right now is very tentative, especially with the fact that we have white supremacists coming down armed this weekend that they have you know, and they did last weekend and shot at people with with with a paint balls and plastic balls and pepper balls and all kind of other things and bear mason people public. So when you have that kind of stuff as well, then people start to escalate. So the mood right now

is very tentative. People aren't sure if they want to come against the white supremacists with their own weaponry, or are they going to you to be defensive or at what point does it escalate to these random citizens are shooting at us and we're gonna start shooting them back. So there's a lot of questions right now that they're going on. There's a lot of conversations about why we're here,

you know, are we here for a peaceful thing? You know, for not a peaceful thing, because there's no justice, so there's no peace. But are we here to be non violent? Are we here to be aggressors? Are we here to push that? So there's a lot of conversation around that, and people have different opinions. Obviously, people have different levels

of hatred for the police. Um I, personally, I am not a person that believes in hating people, but we definitely don't agree with the system of policing and we're definitely remitted to dismantleft by enemy is necessary. So um I think there's a lot in there, and there's a lot where is it a point where people are really are actually wondering what's next? And the mood is very very uh, it's it's very tentative. Where do you think Portland's unique resiliency in this battle against um, the police

state comes from. This is Portland's you know, if you've ever seen a movie like you know, uh, what's that movie where they avery what's called all those movies where folks like you know, uh, the terrorists come and and the and the and the white man go to the mountains and become you know, mountain minute fight back. That's like, you know, that's how they think out here. Like you know, when the fans come or the government comes for us, we're gonna arm up. This is the Northwest. Like guns

are very easy to get. There's not a whole lot of laws about that kind of stuff. You can get away with a lot in the Northwest. So there's a lot of you know, it's very a pioneer state. UM. And over the years they've heard they tried hearts to not let the black folks be a part of that, but we've become a part of that too. And just the culture here in Portland is to always protests. They've been calling us a little the bey routs since I

think the eighties. You know, Um, this is a place where if there's injustice, then people hit the streets Director of Democracy is a very very real thing here. So this is nothing new for us. The duration is new, but you gotta keep in mind like we had the Occupy a High thing here forever, we had the w h O protests, We've had the Trade on Martin protests,

we had the Donald Trump a protest. We've had I mean, I've been in more put the back and I can think of I've been a going protests for almost twenty years. So this is definitely it's it's it's nothing new. So with um Portland's having a lot of protests like that is the uh is the hip hop scene politically active there as well? A little bit differently seeing here is definitely political and that's part of why I've been involved

for years. We had to fight at the cops here a few years ago, I think five or six years ago, we had to actually do a bunch of stuff and the police were shutting down all the venues. That or the police in the five department we're working together with with O L's sec fueled the Liquor Commission here to shut down hip hop shows, hip hop parties at any clubs that played hip hop music. People that wore black

looking clothes all that stuff. So we had to fight a lot of battles with the media and with the police and in city hall to try and get this stuff done and it hasn't been easy, but we definitely are getting it done. So it's so yet the politics here in the hip hop scene are definitely evident. All the hip hop artists are not into politics, and I wouldn't say that, but there's actually definitely a strong um hip hop under a current that that follows these protests.

In fact, like every other Friday or so, there's like a hip hop stands up event. It's like a protest where there's a concert involving. There's been a lot of of of music, especially black music um played here. There's artist here named named uh Na a Swiggle Mandela and he's got a song called uh Deer Portland Police that he put out a few years ago, and it's really become like the unofficial anthem of the protest. People just walk around with speakers and play on loop and you know,

during the protests. So and in the Star Wars death Mark kind of like our yeah quick aside, every episode we do a music discussion and so we'll definitely be playing that and uh uh that's acting. That is a part of this episode. Anything else, do you want to shout out or highlight? Um, while we've got your what got you here? I would say, you know, shout out, shout out everybody black. I'm rooted for all of us. Um, you know, I would definitely say Harris m aggress right.

You know that being said, I I do think that as people, as a people, as black people, UM, we definitely oftentimes fall for the performative, you know, and the goal of hey we got something, and I think that's really been to our detriment historically. So um, you know, I know that there's no control over the national politics at this level, so you know, I definitely support the better of the two evils at this point, I guess.

But Um, the biggest thing is that here important we understand that a democracy can be a direct it can happen directly in the streets. Um. We don't have to wait for everyone to understand what's going on. We can just start teaching them and making the difference to ourselves. And that's I think is what makes this whole thing here in Portland, this whole revolution here in Portland a last so long is that people are seeing the long and story and not just you know, getting stuck in

the day to day. As as long as we can do that, then I think it is gonna continue on for for quite a while. Well, hey man, thank you for taking the time. I'm sorry about the technical difficulties at the all right, thank you, all right, we'll happen. Good night, Thanks so much. Now let's turn to our music discussion for this week, focused on on Portland's hip hop artists, particularly who've been involved in the movement there. So up first we have artists Swiggle Mandela and his

track which is part of his Dear series. This one's called do you Know Where You At? Has there ever even been a governor over a mayor that was black? That's definitely got like a really strong, like spoken word vibe. Yeah, I like that. I like that. It's a real smooth on this rective meditative yeah. Um. It covers a lot of issues. Opens with your why Portland, why can't it afford a house in Alberta, addressing issues of gentrication and

rising housing costs. Um. I think it's really interesting, he says, how come I couldn't sell weed? But you can kind of touching on equity issues in marijuana legalization because of prohibition for so many years, was particularly used to target black folks. Uh, what happens now that giant you know, we entrepreneurs, conglomerates and stuff. Yeah, with their trust fund seed money for these giant grow operations are the ones that are really cashing in. We're going to change. We're

going to cover that definitely in our Weed episode. Yes, Um, I like the use of breaking up pretty much every line with that flow. So like you were saying, it has a sort of spoken wordy sort of quality to it, and because it has that broken up aspect to it, but when a line sticks with you, it really sticks because you have that room for it to breathe after

he says it. So like that part where he was like a dear white Portland, why won't you treat me like a man, and it just you know, you just get the beat playing after he says it, with an echoing like, I love that. I love that. So Swiger Mandell also, you know, part of his Dear series, this is the one um Max Smith was talking about the kind of it's become like a protest anthem in the streets of Portland. It's called Portland Portland Police. I just

want my peace. They don't free little swag, keep back on the street. Street. They traded and they she stay traded and they we don't fun. You don't want to beat fucking bangs? Actually, hey, hey dear Portland police. Hey, that's cool. That's cool, and I think that so it

premiered earlier this month and ship bangs. Honestly, I mean that's definitely is part of that, uh you know the ongoing theme that we're always talking about, which is if you have a message and you put it into the right rhyme or the right song and right beat, it makes them usage just so much more so much more. I feel palpable and like translatable, you know what I'm saying. I feel like you could put this on for somebody who's not even necessarily up to speed of what's going on.

It's just like your poor little police. You know, there's this aesthetic overlap between hip hop and like protest culture with like really catchy call it responsor. It's like if you can figure out, you know, just how to encapsulate something in like three words where that that were like that that base is sort of implied and and all, like all the weight of the message just behind like

you know, a simple like slogan. It's so good. Imagine what that ship is like when they're like actually bumping it like on the street and you're just like surrounded by people. Yeah, yo, yo, this is an interesting one. So this is Mike Crenshaw, rapper, activist, an educator. He's originally from Chicago, but he's been living in Portland since the nineties. Now we're gonna listen to a bit of

his song and then get our reaction to it. But I'm going to tell you a little bit more about him afterwards because it leads into the artist that we have after him. So this is Mike Crenshaw with the track heavy Bag. Saw something that always raised this struc being totally producted heavy Heavy Bag with this heavy I was bumping this like multiple times in the room. Yeah,

like in a row. The beat is ill. I like how in the video he's wrapping this whole verse like a a fucking clans dude that you got held up? Oh Portland, y'all do that? Y'all got that right there? That's a good one. That's a good one. He's the founding member of the Anti Racist Action, which is a decentralized network of anti fascist and anti racist in North America, which has existed from nineteen seven up until two thousand and thirteen. Mike Crenshaw worked with a global group of

artists to found Africa Hip Hop Caravan a mission. Their mission is to connect artists across Africa and the dispora through annual performance and tours through Eastern Southern Africa. The white guy gets to be strong, like yeah, and it heavy. And this first guy is Mica Fletcher. He was a

survivor in the two thousand seventeen Portland train attack. So pretty much this white supremacist was on a train and he was yelling anti Muslim slurers two teenage black girls, and he got confronted by three men and he stabbed and killed two of them and stabbed Mica, and Mica survived and he teamed up with Mike Crenshaw and they recorded this album together as a duo, The Last of a Dying Breed. So this is one of the tracks from it. Let's listen to Mika's part. I hope I'm

saying that right. It could be Mica, but his MC name is cool chief Rockers, so let's listen to his pro every day. Up next, we have C three, the Guru. I couldn't find much as far as his music online, but he has been a fixture around the protests for the last few weeks. He's a performer and activist. Let's check out a little clip from him actually on the scene and approaches women. We're not going down down, down

down down. Okay, Okay, that's right. And he's been doing that like live on the scene, so you know, I mean, it sucks that I couldn't find more of his music. I'm sure it's you know, it's probably out there somewhere. It just wasn't easy to find and I didn't have enough time to find it. But that clip is enough

to get me to be a fan. And plus C in an m C like actually pulled the microphone especially you know, if you could find no way to do it in these times, you might as well do it for a cause of seeing MC like in a crowd just getting busy on the mic for like a purpose

is that's a beautiful, a beautiful thing to see you. Next, we got Karma Rivera with Can't trust Now Karma thinks joy is essential to keeping everyone engaged in the movement, and recently performed at a Black Lives Matter protest organized by nonprofit snack Block. Started the set with the song Can't Trust, and at first Rivera said that she was nervous that it didn't match the serious tone of the protest. But as soon as that, as soon as the record dropped,

it was like everybody's energy change. It went from super serious to like everybody's dancing at least, this is what she told pops think out loud. Um, that's kind of where I fit in, she said. My music isn't overtly political. It kind of tends to disregard respectability, politics affairs, using music to support local organizers and activists to her building spaces where protesters can let loose. It is crucial to the Black Lives Matter momentum. Celebrations sustains activism ship and

that's what I was selling people tonight at the protest downtown. Um. It's also it's not just about like lamenting the loss of life. It's all about celebrating the lives that were lost because they were all beautiful lives. Celebrating the fact that Jacob Blake is still alive today celebrating um our power. And so I think that non overtly political jams like these are very important for the movement. We need to

sustain our energy. We need to have a little bit of fucking fun because this ship is really stressful and depressing, and if you're you know, it's good to remind everybody that ultimately we're there for like love. Yeah, I mean, I'm all about my bread like a methodist. I keep the most seen in the messages, and you know I'll be looking like the estimate I can't trust. I can't trust all about my bread like a methodist. Okay, girl,

I hear you. It's cool. It's a nice little pop wrap. No, it's good to break to break up some of the tension and bring some levity in some of these like very heavy process. That's interesting thing that she brings up though, because especially since I started uh hanging with you and ship, I get approach to do events that um just you know, things where I personally have to ask myself, well does my music fit in at those things? Seems like everyone

to hear about some some other ship, you know. But it was it was cool reading about her saying that that sometimes it not even sometimes it's a necessity that these things aren't mired in just darkness, you know what I'm saying, Like, sometimes you need things to come enlighten. The tone in the mood to that put it puts everybody in a positive headspace. Yeah, I do. On that note, maybe we'll leave everybody with some some flex bars. Oh yeah, the episode and heard how this ship started. We got

that into the rab abile. Let's fit. Let's get a beat ah ah, waiting a reparaceous Yeah, we're waiting a reparationous, so better take a pick up a visis NI can get missing in this slericisn't the missrs is freaking ripping? It lifted on the slip of the sticky. They call me kick a rest for the flow warm of the glot or but but chick a resk had his whiskers crips and then think us skip them total since a fist cross the river six and sist and someone's mike, Kate,

how my phone to leave your pistol? Win? But I ain't trying to kick your kids. I'm just trying to elevate you out, like come mine, he might without a switching flick flings and all the other witches on the quidditch pitcher. It's got nothing to do with fashion, is stacking up intimates. It's a prigate ripping Pakistan, and it's so syntactically disid it's practically since it's like, what end this way? God MC, that could only be one. You need run cutter Rapper's hand off and leave him. I'm

all the power of course. I saw see the beast done. I'm a fat rap nut. You ain't even peak. Come you see son. You never see sun when you're buried beneath dumb if you're skirt of my speech? Ever heard of streets that I'll beat from watching Murder? Will beat when I heard him season release. Some they just person to streets, some emergency kick trito. My chadhood was shaped by West Africa Massaca. Now one days it pays if your less than half spectacular. The cameras wrappings a stuck

faster than Dracula are wrapping too. The day that my face is packed with the capita. All right, I'm lingo franca, I'm dope knife. We're waiting on reparations, see you next week. Waiting on reparations, as a production of I heart Radio. Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.