Mo Money, Mo Problematic

And while we're at it, playing a plot of fender leaping when the Greens on every street and pay incarcerated folks for you in the ring to tend to be in. So every neighborhood has got to create the food, and every neighbor has a stable roof and all the basic needs to say that emotional in behavior rules. That's the fatal world of state. To pull from the stranglehold of the state is quote. But I can make the change alone. That's why the day you join us is my favorite

day to come ship. Wait, no revarations. Yeah, we're waiting our reparations. Now you got that one that'll be the intro. Hey, this is like, well, Franca, I'm dope knife and we are waiting on reparations. Hurry up, please do please hurry up. Oh, we were busy this weekend where we got out, how does the payment for this district attorney's run off here

in December? Here? Next week, next two nights week. It's crazy. Yeah, it's been crazy times in doora down here, man, But it was hopefully we can elect you know, progressive district attorney that's interested in bringing restorative justice into like the d a's office and eliminate some of our disparities racially and socio economically and our sentencing. So we were out canvassing for Debra Gonzalez, who is running for d A

here in Athens, Georgia. So Mariah, like for people who might be a little fatigued with the election season, or maybe they're only anticipating like the big ship like the Senate joint coming up um, or just people who don't even really know, like explain to him why it's important to get up and make sure that you go vote for you know, your your local d A election, not

just in Athens but anywhere. Like it's crazy, man, Like something like Athens black men make of Athens population, but sixty of those uh sentenced to prison in state court. I think of folks sentence in municipal court five times is likely to be arrested for marijuana UM, despite the fact white and black people use it at the same rates.

Half of the juvenile justice system cases or black youth like all the ship oh and the Georgia Center the Georgia Institute for Transitional Justice found that even when you adjust for criminal histories and like other aspects of a defendants background like uh, black men versus like a year longer in jail in accents than white men for the exact same crimes for the crime and so, and this is all ship that, like a district attorney can because

she chooses she hopefully if she wasn't, will choose what cases to bring against people, so she could just be like, you know, make a little balance yea Canada, says Deverre Gonzalo. She's a former state House representative UM now running for district attorney. Actually an entertainment lawyer, but very committed to

like racial and social justice. But I think one of the most badass things about her is that Kemp Bryan Kemp actually tried to steal this election by just canceling it and appointing someone as r d A. She sued him in Superior Court and one to get the election to happen. Yeah, she sued him in wanting the election to happen. So like, I guess Kemps having a bad week, isn't he? Like first Trump blames him for Georgia going blue, and now he's part of the Venezuelan George Soros Santifa conspiracy.

And then you know this election is about to go down and hopefully she's gonna win. She's earned it, and so we're gonna be out here knocking on doors for her the whole next week. And oh and I got the true pleasure. As much as I love knocking on doors and bringing political messages to the masses, I got to see Mac in address shirt and so I felt

very very hashtag blessed that day. You can't you can't go up to people's door and ship like with a mask in a biggie shirt that says ready to die talk about let me talk to you about your local elections. So I had to I had to spruce it up

a little bit, a little bit. Now, when this episode is coming out, it's gonna be Thanksgiving, so I know that some of you, a lot of you, probably won't be able to listen to this on the day that it drops, But for those of you who are happy Thanksgiving and all that jazz, it made us a little reflective on every thing because this podcast has been going on since June of this year, but it's been in

production since October. Often as a matter of fact, we recorded almost eight or nine episodes, like from October nineteen up to January before we took a break, and we had like nine or ten episodes stocked up, and you know, just while waiting for a launch date, a post COVID, post George Floyd world just kind of made those episodes not seem as striking as perhaps we wanted the show to come out being off the jump. And not only that, but we were also green. We didn't know what the

funk we were doing. We were trying to figure it out. So the format of what we recorded back then, it's not what we do on a weekly basis now, but just kind of celebrating anniversary issue, you know, of the time that Mariah and I have spent working on this show, and Joel and Taylor and the whole you know, everybody, the whole team of everybody that helped us bring this

podcast to you every week. I wanted to celebrate a really fly conversation that we had this time last year with Mike C. Town from the popular YouTube channel Dead and hip Hop. It's a hip hop music review channel. We were talking about like problematic aspects of mainstream hip hop that we all still love anyway, and then that

kind of turned into some other ship. It was all over the place, but it was fly, and we ended up bringing Mike's Town back now so that we could talk to him just to you know, get some of his thoughts fresh in the post COVID, post election, post George Floyd world. Um So we're gonna get into that after the jump, and I'm definitely gonna be back with some new raps because the ship that I spent last

year I don't like anymore. Ye Uh. This week we're having a discussion about the problematic aspects of the mainstream hip hop we can't help but love and where if at all a line exists that we can't cross as self identified progressive people. We're gonna be talking about problematic music that you can't help A day's too nonetheless, music to fire to turn off, even if the lyrics themselves

are a turn off. And I want to talk a little bit about the concept of sonic narratives, as it's been argued by hip hop feminists, by hip hop beat, that tells the story might be different a little bit than the lyrics, the lyrical content of the of the song itself, which allows consumers to turn off their critical listening ears and enjoy the story that the sounds can

tell us. And we'll be contemplating the possibility that you know, the old slogan goes for you mine and he asked will follow, but perhaps it is the other way around, perhaps, And talking with us today, we're gonna be having this discussion with one of my favorite people. Officially, I guess officially you can call him a music critic or a music personnel, making faces that I'm saying that that I

don't know what to call you. I don't either. We're gonna be talking about Homie Mike's Town from dead End hip Hop dead End hip Hop music review review channel on YouTube. I personally have been watching for like it was like nine years now. Yeah, I mean I started watching into something like said, yeah, why don't you tell the tell the people a little bit about yourself? For for those who don't know you. For those of you that don't know me. Um, yeah, so dead in hip hop,

we do album reviews, we do culture conversations, um. Outside of dead and hip hop, we also have a podcast calls is the Mike Still On where we talk about stuff outside of hip hop. Um. We even talked about movies. We have another podcast called Frames per Second. Um. But outside of all that, ship, I also got my own ship that Mac did not mentioned. Why you know past it's only me here, you know the mother dude they

hear so so we're gonna talk about me. But yeah, I have my own YouTube channel as well, where I talk about records, talk about um, I don't know, socially as you talk about whatever. Um, Mike c town dot com. That's m y k E c tw N dot com. Check me out, you guys gotta check it out. And also when you when you check out the dead End hip Hop channel, there's a review that they did to this guy Dope nice album, Things got Worse, sound terrible, found sounds like a Travis State. Check it out. Don't

listen to it. But speaking of the music, we do listen to despite it from a ideological standboy being somewhat of a dumpster fire. Let's get into the topic of today. I guess the first thing that I would want to know is are we operating first from a standpoint where we think or consider everything that a rapper says that we take it literally, like they definitely mean that ship.

I'm only asking just because, going by me, I would imagine that to a certain base degree, a lot of rappers probably say ship in songs that they wouldn't say

in real life. Do we disagree? I kin't just a little bit of what well, because I was listening and you were saying that, you know, it kind of seems like uh, rappers will say things in lyrics that they wouldn't say and everyday life they might be also calling to somebody a bitch absolutely at the streets at the strip club, as much as they would in their actual

songs about being at the strip club. I guarantee that rappers that are calling people the F a G word are doing it in real life and probably on a regular basis. I mean, would you say that is the norm, and I mean I think Vinny Pass probably calls people that the the F word on that's seem me regular basis, even if it's like a quote unquote joke, or if it's like I'm angry he's using you know, as devoted hip hop listeners were no strangers to misogyny and hip

hop lyrics. I think there's female as well as male rappers who be calling ladies bitches and hose and otherwise describing women in disrespectful terms, explicitly describing sexual acts less goes on. Um. The same can be said of depictions of violence and drug activity hip hop songs. But I think Y'a'll be talking about a little bit later in the episode. Um. But at the end of the day, what people really resonate with is the feeling that the beat and the cadence in the rhyme of a song conveys.

It's like it tells a separate story from that which

is actually being manifest in the lyrics itself. I think that you can sit down or you can stand up rather in the club and hear a song and not necessarily parts the specific topics that are being talked about how they're being talked about, But you can be moved by the story that the beat tells you and by the aesthetics of like the rhythm of the delivery, the style of the delivery, the way the words coalesce around rhyme, and things like that that like altogether kind of get

put you in a mood and that transport you in a sense through the purely are like creative aesthetic side of of the music. Before you get to say, like, well,

he said, what what I mean? I definitely can vibe with that, but the I just don't necessarily know if that is most of the case or some of the case, or you know what I mean, because I definitely feel that there's some songs that that is the reason that people like you know what I mean, Like I think if you took a song like bad and Bougie with the same exact beat, same exact cadence, the same exact flow, and you simply change the concept of it, I don't

think as many people would like it is the concept defensive. I've never really paid attention to that necessarily a matter of the concept. Let me against them. That's that's where this conversation kind of like to me gets interesting, because it's like, what do we mean by problematic? First of all, let me just say I'm coming from the standpoint of I don't use words like problematic the way that motherfucker's used words like problematic, like I would never describe some

issue I took with music is problematic. Well, give me example the short one, of course, because that's the thing because when if you ask me, i've heard bad boogie, probably doesn't if not a hundred times, right, But I can't tell you what it's about because I don't know if that's not what matters to me, because you don't know what then they're saying because of the new solid rabbits emerging that is instead like appealing because it has a certain cadence to it, this sort of indecipherability that

you know might be purposeful but really just you know, creates this aesthetic aura around it that you get down to regardless of what they're saying. And then the beat itself that is why people are listening to it. But if so, if Bad and Bougie were about hygiene and good relationships, do we like do we think like people be like wrap about relationships, You're going to do well? But that's what it's like. It's it's almost as if like but to the to the to the counterpoint, though

we don't know what bad and Bougie is about. That's true, but I don't think that what it's about is necessarily relevant to what is said. And let me make sure that I read this right. My bitch is bad and bougie cooking up dope with the ouzy my niggas savage ruthless, we got thirties a hundred rounds too now to me personally again, disclaimer over a hot beat with a dope cadence niggas is in the studio fucking around. I think this should fly. I have no problem with it whatsoever.

But there you haven't. Right There in the lyrics we got misogyny, my bitch cooking up dope, glorific asian of drugs with the oozy glorification of guns, my niggas a savage of ruthless. Feed in the stereotypes, we've got thirties and to more stereotypes. I don't think that most people found bad and Bougie to be a problematic song, but we just heard the lyrics. I mean, it is what it is right, It sounds about right, It sounds like

a good Friday. My bitch is bad and bougie, my nigga is a savage and ruthless cooking up with they. I mean, like I said, I don't know that's to me, it's such a generalist song. But just I got some guys that business that to me doesn't even register. It is like a problematic, highly problematic time because it's not

a point. So then that's what I'm saying. So then I feel like if I had enough time, I could find a bunch of black people over the age of forty who the lyrics I just read, being like the number one hit in the country is highly problematic, you know what I'm saying. But again I would disagree with them, but it's just like so they're wrong, but then somebody else who's mad about another aspect of something, they're right, though I don't know. It's just the inconsistency of this

ship man. I mean, that sounds like a bod idea, but it doesn't sound It doesn't sound quote unquote problematic particularly agregious sure to me, and I agree with that.

It's not problematic to me, right, I know that I have a sixty four year old mother that it is problematic for you know what I'm saying, Like, you know, all I'm saying is when she said that to me, I do, I wrote, mize, But the people I feel like people who would the type of people who take it upon themselves to be the arbiters of like this is problematic and this ship is not problematic. They have a very inconsistent, uneven way of doing that ship that

just elicits like skepticism. If on Saturday you're in the club or on Twitter talking about how you're shaking, you're asked to bad and Bougie and how you love that song and that's your jam. But then on Monday mc get busy said some line that you didn't like, so it's like, oh no, he sexius though, then the only reason that you don't feel that way about Bad and

Bougie is because you don't take it literally. I think as hip hop listeners, perhaps we are a bit desensitized in terms of what strikes us as problematic, because like we hear very like ordinary allusions to selling drugs and doing this and that in the music all the time. It's not it's this to me, is not an over the top example of lyrics that are problematic. So that's what I want to get. What is over the top? What is too much? Because that to me, it's just

like another day in the neighborhood. Uh well, I mean we are we talking solely mainstream rappers? Are we talking about people I brought in were mostly mainstream? I don't like, I don't have any It doesn't necessarily even have to be something that people dance to, but just something that generally is like, I mean, okay, So like when you're talking about that Mego song, I guess it doesn't really

phase me that way. It doesn't. It doesn't sounds advocate by bringing up the Mego song because it doesn't phase. But I feel like the people that would be extremely bothered by that song would get bothered by just about

any rap song period. Probably am just just from a just from a standpoint of and again this is all anecdotal, but like from my experience of engaging with people in the Twitter sphere, unlike conversations like that, that's not the kid that they're okay with most songs, but they're bothered

by it. Sounds like, you know, this is my like Chip or Kip that goes to like Georgia Tech and doesn't really have any black friends and he's bothered by that doesn't doesn't sound like a rap fan would pull this song and be like, oh my god, cooking dope with the oozing. No, I'm done. No, I don't think there's I don't think for the most part, anybody's bothered

by bad em Bougie. It's like it was a hit number one song that people listen to all across the world by the hundreds of millions, you know what I'm saying. So I don't think that there was any sort of like reaction to bad and Bougie as it being problematic. As a matter of fact, Kicked with No Black Friends probably loves bad and Bougie more than most black people. Knows every word, especially the niggas of Savage and Ruth's part, probably knows how to wrap that whole hook by heart.

I am not bothered by that. I know you're not. I'm trying to. I'm trying to parse down the people that are and should we as a hip hop community even being concerned with these people or should we be more concerned with ship Like I'm grabbing snitches and putting them in lakes and ditches, and if I catch aids, I'm gonna start raping bitches like would be? Would be? I feel like the sort of person who would have like some sort of moral outrage against Bad and Bougie.

They also would not funk with that line that you just said. But I feel like somebody, let's keep it real, somebody younger who doesn't funk with that line that you just said, probably doesn't have any problem with Bad and Bougie, And if you got like an honest, heartfelt answer from them, I'm pretty sure it would boil down to, well, I like me, goes, I don't like that other guy, which is fine. I mean, some people somebody rubs you the wrong way that you take their ship more serious than

you do other people's ship. That's fine, that's your prerogative, but you know that is what's going on. At least it feels that way. And I'm really glad you brought that up, actually, because a lot of what I came to talk to about today was misogyny and hip hop lyrics, because I guess misogyny has been more pervasive in my life experience and so that it to me is where

I draw a line. However, I had not really interrogated the fact that if in a song they're talking about like squeezing the trigger, you know, Bussanoosi whatever, I kind of I don't really hear. I don't really hear that. I don't only worry about that because that is not as like I just think it's interesting. I don't think. I don't think. I don't think you're wrong for not

hearing it. I don't know what I'm saying. I just but the fact that you talked about how the influence of one's life experiences then colors what you hear, is you know, problematic or realistic or or persuasive in these songs interesting. I told you the story I think last night or the night before, I'll tell it to you, right, and it's it's it's funny because it's like related to the bad and Booge selling again. So I was watching basketball game and this is like two years ago, and um,

I was like whatever feed I was watching. You could see the halftime show, right, and it was like a Boston Celtics game, So this is like Boston white people and see you know what I'm saying. And the halftime show there was like this troop of kids who came out to dance, right, and it was like, oh, word like that. So it was like it's like a truth.

It was like thirty of them white, you know, eight eight nine, nobody was like older than ten, right, fancing to an unedited bad and Bougie, And I'm just sitting there watching it, and there was just something about in that moment watching it, and it was like, there's something about this is not cool. None of them edited. None

of those kids knew it was unedited. They didn't. But it's kind of the point because what you hear is and you get this, you get this sort of like impressionistic view or experience of the song when it's when it's coming in here, when you're dancing on the baton

Boston Celtics court to it. That like all you're hearing is like the sum total of the song, which is which is musical, it's not, it's not being with it whittled down into like line by line, Oh, he's cooking up he's cooking up crack with the like nobody, nobody's getting to that level with white the white kids that

were dancing to it. You know. I think that what it comes down to is like if if rich, stuffy white people had a moral problem against bad em bougie and didn't want their children dancing to it, I would like it more. But the fact that they don't have a problem with it just sense all my spider senses off that something is terribly wrong. It seems like there was a time when just hip hop got more pushed

back forth. Really, what was this? Like the nineties win C the Loris Tucker was fucking taking steam rollers to ice tea and ice cubes and what did that do anything? How can you say it didn't do anything. That ship was like specifically against misogyny and rap, like they were like C the Loris Tucker was doing that ship specifically about songs like Bitches Ain't Shit or Bitches a bitch or n w a one less bit you gotta worry about,

Like that ship was. It was important. I mean back then we were rolling our eyes, was like, oh, they're old,

they don't know what the funk they're talking about. They hated but like twenty five years later you look back at it, it's like, damn if hip hop wasn't getting at least that sort of pushback back in the nineties, Like if the gangster era of rap was just allowed to go unfettered with no sort of criticism from within the black community in the hip hop community itself, like niggas might literally be caveman right now, literally Queen Latifa's you and I t y. That is a reaction and

a criticism of hip hop from within, like these things are important. And what it did is it kind of made more like thinking rappers like Iced Tea and Ice Cube to have to be able to defend their reflect evolve or even digging in their views. But you're confronted with it, and then the next generation of hip hoppers learn, which is why you have a new generation of the generation of hip hop that came after that was more

conscious to issues like that. In the generation that came after them was more conscious issues like that from a mainstream level. I don't see that ship anymore that you

don't go there. I disagree. I feel like we're in an era where everything gets put on the under the microscope to a much higher degree because everybody's got my fucking blog, you know, Blevity or Bustle or whoever is gonna make a click quick buck off a clickbait article writing about how Taylor Swift is actually not a feminist or whatever like so um, I don't know, man, I necesarily this is starting to creep into the area of respectability politics. But I don't really funk with that. I do.

He's I think when you when you start going down this road, that's kind of because she should be complaining about rap. I'm of a certain age. I'm not going to say I should be complaining about rap because it's kind of a young person's sport and disagree with that. Oh god, oh god, we can't agree on anything. Nas got props because he was a kid that sounded like a grown ass man, not because he was a dumb fucking kid that was sounding like a dumb kid on

the mike. This aspect of the ship is to be continued. Yeah, every every person in the history of ever who got old started to crying. Yeah, the habits and the customs of the newer generations as somewhat deteriorated. Yes, I'm going back to ancient fucking greed. Yes, really, how all those newer generations kept that Greek empire going after all these

years too? They're thriving. If you guys are on the train that the reason that a fifty year old in nineteen wouldn't like NASA's Illmatic album is the same reason that like a thirty year old in two thousand nineteen doesn't like Takashi six nine. I think that's nuts. I don't because I guarantee if you played any rap album for Salors Tucker, she'd say this is trash. It didn't matter what rap album was. She just picked Ice Team

Ice Cube because they were easily like targetable. Yeah, but if you played her fucking I'm trying to think of of a clean wrapper from the night played like a she might be Okay. Will Smith, if you played their Tribe album, She's gonna find something. Will Smith had, Will Smith had a racist song. Will Smith had this one song, Oh yeah, she was Asian that I do remember that. It was like like that it happened, didn't happen. It was literally like yo, Fresh Prince got that one song

where he said, but did you really say it? Though? That's weird to me. But anyway, we're back back. We're back. We're talking about problematic content and hip hop songs where we draw the line, if any So let's talk about that lite which line the line like where is the I mean, I don't I don't know where is everyone's line? Mike,

what is your line on? Like? What is it. What are the things that is, you cannot allow the slickness of the rhyme or the beat or however you feel about the song to like, let's what you just heard slide. I mean, I'm not even gonna sit here in line. I don't think I have a line, because you know, unfortunately, I mean, I'm privileged enough to not have to worry

about certain things. So I mean, even even though I'm listening to something and I can critically analyze that thing, at the same time, I'm not gonna lie and be like yo, if I'm trying to think, Like if if killing Mike one day slips up and says some really fucked up ship in the bar, I'm just gonna be like, all right, I'm done with killing Mike forever. I'm not. Yeah,

I'm not either. I'm not either. Um. But even even on a personal level, you know, I'm not saying like I'm gonna go public and be like, yo, everybody stopped listening to this certain rapper. Even on a personal level, I'm not gonna be like, all right, well, I can no longer listen to any of your music because you

said this one thing. I don't think I have that and again I think that comes from a place of privilege, because I mean, what can outside of a white person calling me, you know, nigger, what is there that a rapper could possibly say that will personally offend me to the point where I have to draw a line. I don't have that issue, So I can I have the privilege of ignoring certain things. That's kind of what I'm

getting at. Yeah, And I mean I feel like with the misogyny inherent and a lot of hip hop music, I don't have that privilege when I hear certain things. Take the classic example, the blurred lines Robin Thick, Like, when I hear that rape kind of insinuation being made, I mean, it doesn't help that it's a rip off of fucking Marvin Gay and so say, I'm sorry, I know you want it. You know you're an animal. I know you want it. Is that legits like the hook hook,

you know you want it. It's blur blord lines. The idea that like taking advantage and like domesticating women like their animals. I'm a domestic like whatever, like so see and you got this face like, oh I do. But if Benny said that should probably like, yeah, blur them lines that that, and you know what, I think the pupil's reactions should be. Like for me, it's kind of like what do I believe? You know what I'm saying?

Like if I hear somebody say something that does hit me in that spot, then it comes down to do I genuinely believe that this person is like advocating something? So it kind of comes back to that like literal question, what do you take seriously or not? I mean, I know with me, I have I say ship that I don't mean all the time, either just jokes or I'm

just wrapping or making a point or whatever. I'm totally open to somebody being like, oh, that's in bad taste and them not working with it because I feel that way about other ship. But for somebody to make an assertion is if they know like who I am based on that, Like I'm not about to meet al Pacino and start yelling at him about like why did you Kilfrado? Because I'm sure he would look at me and be like it's a movie, dumb fuck? You know. So it's

like not everything is real. Yeah, I think with alternative or underground hip hop as well as mainstream, a line of new draws when people are reporting on facts versus like touting like a way of life that others should endorse an embrace. So if someone's like, yo, I shot a nigger, like, I'm gonna just I'm gonna have to just listen to that and not take offense to it.

So that's just sucking real life, a real, real last thing that he's reporting, Like, I'm not gonna you know, but I don't know though, even in the case when we're like yo, Wenna, come buy your block fucking light, yo, shut up, Like I'm not gonna I'm probably not gonna WinCE at that because I don't know. I just don't really normalized And do you listen to that stuff though? Does it not? Does it? Does it not turn you off? No? Okay, because it does to me, Like, yeah, you know what

I'm saying. I I I'm one of those sort of cats where it's like I try to make an effort to listen to like a lot of ship and and as much stuff as I can, just because I like rap. I just like to consume wrap and you know, I mean at least be able to say I've heard something once. But like because of how I know the stuff that

makes me feel some sort of way. It makes me feel it's like yeah, like the none of the beats are hot enough for me to be like, oh yeah, I'm just gonna listen to this song because it makes me feel sort of way. And I know that about myself, so I'm not gonna like listen to it just so I can get mad, you know what I'm saying, Like like if I put on a music video and I see a bunch of like sixteen year olds pointing automatic weapons at the camera, Like, there's no part of me

that thinks that that's cool. Therefore, like I don't feel any pressure to like say that I like it or anything like that. I don't think that it shouldn't exist or that people who do like it shouldn't be able to like it. I just know that I don't funk with it. I feel, you Like, when I was younger, you know, I would listen to sex Style all the time. You know, Um, I would listen to fucking Kool Keith records.

I would listen to Necro records. But as I get older and I start realizing, like, yo, nah, lot of that ship you're saying is really fucked up. You rapping about chaining women up in your basement. No, bro, I can't lack with that anymore. Yeah, I mean I did when I was younger. And the thing is, uh, when I was younger, I felt like I was really in this struggle. I was out in the streets from this this quote unquote PC thing. But I was still listening

to the ship and it didn't bother me. But as I'm older, it's just like, man, nah, that ship is really fucked up. To me, it's the to me listening to old stuff like that, the pointlessness of it is what gets to me. You know what I mean? Is this just like it's like it's not funny because I'm not saying yeah, yeah, but again, you know they weren't sixteen when they made isn't that kind of weird? Yeah?

But but again it all goes you know, I know that people, you know, the comic consensus is that intent doesn't matter and it's all the only thing that matters

is what happens. But you know, there's a certain there's a certain level of like Necro for example, right like as a specific example of Necro, where it's like, you know, I I know that Necro like has like a family with like you know what I'm saying, and nephews and nieces, and he's like and I know that he's like really in the horror movies and and old Italian horror movies

and stuff like that. So from that perspective, it's like everything or in that in that light, like everything that necro does in his music makes sense from that standpoint, it's like, oh, this is like a horror movie fan who's making you know what I mean? Now, if the basis is no, horror movies are wrong and it shouldn't exist because it's problematic, I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's the stance that I feel that you should

come at that from. I don't know what you're talking man, Okay, Necro is a I guess you could call him out. He's a horrorcore rapper, to put it simply, more simply than it should be put. He's the sort of rapper who like he watches horror movies a lot, and he'll be like, Yeo, I'm gonna write a song as the slasher who's going after the babysitter, and the whole song will be from respect. You know what I mean? That

that sort of. I kind of sort of get what you're saying, because I mean a lot of a lot of those old Italian horror movies, as yellow movies, are very much misogynist because it's just about hunting and killing women. At the same time, he's not stupid, he's not he should know, like, Yo, I put this ship in here, and that's what it is. I feel you're about that.

I'm hit you with a different one, al right. So remember remember back in the day when Rick Ross had that line about putting the pilling her and everyone was outraged. And I mean, I didn't listen to Rick Ross anyway, so it didn't make a difference to me. I was just like, either way, I'm not listening to his music. But I understood why people were piste off, and I was like, yeah, that's a really fucked up line. Why

would you say something like that. That's crazy? And I remember, no, it's the Necro line there on the On the Run the Jewels album. Um, No, neither rapper said it, but Prince Paul had like this interlude type of dealing. He's like, Yo, it's probably that half of Molly I put in her drink. Yeah, And I remember I listened to an album probably thirty five times, and that line never ever even popped out to me at all, and it was just one day at the gym. I was like, damn, that's kind of

fucked up that heat like even. But at the same time, I don't skip that song because it's the intent. But what is though, I have no idea, no idea what that think when they write he's trying to be funny? Is that is he trying to be funny? I mean maybe I'm just like, look, but I don't hear that skit and think, oh man, Prince Paul's being a really that's like a really cool dude, Like yeah, that's like awesome, Like it's I think they're like satirization, you know what

I mean. But again, it's just like all specific, you know what I mean. It's like it's that specific line and what I interpreted it. But let me ask you, Mike, why don't you skip over it? Not as a challenge to you, but like what makes it make it so that? Yeah? Because I'm I'm interesting, because I'm interested in like what makes it so that people make give a pass on certain music? Because I definitely have music I give a

pass on to yeah. I think again, it goes back to the idea of I have the privilege to ignore it because I, as a man, I know it happens, but it's a lot less likely that I'm going to go to a club and someone's gonna spike my drink. Yeah, I that's not something that I have to go out into the world and really worry about. So I have the privilege of saying, you know what, Yeah, that's fucked up in the sense of I wouldn't want anything like that to happen to any of my of my friends,

but I personally don't have to worry about that. And also it goes back to the aesthetic thing that we're talking about earlier. It's a fucking dope song and I have literally I've listened to the ship out of r t J and I can't even pick out what you're talking about. I don't even I don't even remember. It

doesn't jump out because it's the exciting experience. And that's not even me trying to criticize R t J. It's just it's just a matter of because I mean, Mac is right, they were obviously, you know, trying to be tongue in cheek. I just but that goes to the thing you're talking about earlier though, that if I just handed you that line and nothing else, you had never heard the song. If I just put that line in front of you, where he's like, why is this girl

so happy? Oh, it's probably the half of Molly I put in her drink, and I just gave you that walked away. You're gonna think, oh my god, run the dual supports rape, So should they have to explain that or should you actually have to like bear the responsibility to go hear the entire song and determine, okay, are they actually endorsing scumbaggery or it all comes down to

like a personal choice all the way around. In my opinion, it's personal on the fan on how they want to interpret it, and it's personal on the artists and on how they want to interpret it for me personally, Like my most popular song, I have a line where I said Obama killed way more kids than Adam Lanza. I wrote that in I meant every single syllable of it

when I wrote it, because that's how I felt. You fast forward to three years after that, and if I'm doing a show, I gotta like think about how I'm going to rework that line, because somebody could come up to me afterwards and be like, hey, so I heard that ship you said about Obama, So like what you funk with Trump or something. Now, as an artist in

that situation, you can have one of two reactions. You can either have the reaction of I don't give a funk what you think, you think, whatever the funk you want about my ship, I ain't explaining ship. Or you could be the sort of artist that's like me. It's like, oh man, I don't want somebody to go away with the wrong impression than what I intended to elicit with the art I made, So let me explain that. And it just comes down to comes down to that that

interaction right there. Do you know how many parties I've gone to and someone finds out, like like Detton hip Hop did this thing with Patreon in uh in California, and this white dude came up to me and Fivo and found that we did hip hop stuff and I can't remember exactly what he asked me, but he asked me something that required me to defend some kind of lyric. And you can ask Fivo I got my ship. I still up and I walked away and Ralph asked me later, He's like why, And I was like, Bro, I'm not

doing this with people like he. He he wasn't curious about my opinion. He had his opinion. He was waiting for me to give half of mine so he could give all of his. It was not an inquisitive question, and I can sense that kind of ship out. This dude didn't listen to wrap. He clearly didn't you know what I'm saying. So it's like if you came up and wanted to ask me, like, Yo, what do you think about this? Yes, so now let's talk about it.

But some random dude off the street and a fucking Abercrombie and Fit shirt, no, bro, And that's not like a racist thing. He could be black and white whatever, but I'm just not going to entertain that kind of ship. Hey, dope, knife here. So that was just part of the interview that we do to Mike c Town a year ago. There's still an hour and a half of that interview left because we didn't know what we were doing back then, So who knows, Maybe sometime in the future we'll post

the rest that up. But um, fast forward to now present day. Um, we brought Mike back on this show just to touch base, just to get some of his thoughts and pick his brain a little bit about some of the things that have happened in between when we recorded that interview and now. Um. Yeah, So, how do you feel about the way that rappers are engaging with our current political moment or just the current life moment, life moment, you know, whatever moment this is right, this

moment that we're in, this moment in human history. Do you think in general rappers are like, well, what do you think about what they're doing? Yeah? What do you think about the chants? I mean, I guess it depends on who we're talking about. I mean, talk us through a couple in your eyes, maybe the highlights and then

some of the low lights. I don't I don't honestly know that I have any highlights man like that out here It kind of is, Man, I don't really see Like, I know this sounds bad, but I don't really see a lot of rappers that are like really stepping up to like you know what I'm saying, Like at least not like these like mainstream guys that have like a lot of young eyes on them, you know. Unfortunately, I'm kind of just like let down by you know, big

time mainstream rappers right now. They're like they're just kind of more focused on their money than they are people. Man, what else would you expect really from a mainstream rapper anyway? I mean, I mean it's they've been telling you for years they don't give about nothing but but the paper.

But I mean I am of a mind that like, if you don't have something to say, don't just say something to say something, so they admire that some folks are like, we have anything intell didn't to articulate about this situation, And they don't because when people do, they started running up saying ship and everyone looks to them like a leader of a movement. When they're like not actually on the ground doing organizing these communities, then it's just like shut the funk up and like, let us

do what we're doing. So I actually I'm very thankful for those that have not spoken out of uh at least everyone had a good take or like, you know, but they don't. So it's better than they're quiet. Aren't we supposed to be in a recession? Didn't like people lose their job and ship, and it's just like, I don't know, the that hasn't affected the big money talk

at all. You know, it's it's almost liked the words yeah, because now now you're really bragging to people that don't have ship, and then you're wondering, I know this sounds bad, but then you're wondering why, you know, ship that happens to people like Boosey, and then ship that happens to people like many of the Butcher Like I was, you

wonder why these things happen. Like you're fucking bragging about your chains and all this ship, and then you're riding through neighborhoods where motherfucker's don't have anything and you're riding arounding rolls royces. Yeah, of course you're gonna get run up on. Those are just two names, and like a list, there's like been like five or six cats who have been shot in Texas and stuff, and it's been, you know, weird because it's all been happened, you know, bunched up

in a short amount of time. But then you just have to wonder. Coincidentally, last weekend, there was like one of the longest food lines that we've ever seen in American history. In Texas, you know, like six thousand cars were lined up for a food bag. So that go hand in hand with the desperation that people feel and situations like that. Yeah, I mean I I look at that, because we talked about that today a little bit, But I mean I look at that now. I don't want

to blame Benny for what happened. I mean, I hope he's okay and all that good ship, But with Benny, I don't want to make it seem like I'm like, oh, well, you know, you should have known better, You shouldn't have been doing X y Z. No, that still sucks if you got shot in the leg because somebody tried to

rob you. But at the same time, I would think that maybe once everyone calms down and understand situation and thinks about it, it's kind of one of those things where it's like, yeah, this was kind of bound to happen, you know, for people that are less fortunate. You can't like roll through the hood in a Rolls Royce like you just kind of can't. You know. The last time that we talked, you know, we were talking about problematic

lyrics and things of that nature. So I guess at this point in my life, I don't particularly look to rappers to do these kinds of messaging. I don't know if that's good or bad. Um, I guess I don't really look to musicians period anymore to to get these kinds of messages out, which I guess that is kind of sad, isn't it kind of a yeah, isn't it kind of a bad thing? And I don't mean that

on hip hop. I just mean that just in general, that we have such a cynical view towards like artists and ship It's like we just we expect the default of them is to, you know, kind of not be worship as far as things like that go. Yeah, no, Yeah, the more I'm thinking about it, it is kind of bad.

But I also understand that most musicians are working for the machine anyway, so it's just kind of how things go, and you know, And at the same time, I'm also getting to this point where I don't necessarily want to put that burden on musicians anymore. I think that people having access to social media and all this, they should kind of know who to look to, Like I don't. I don't think people should be going to Little Wayne

to get political advice. You know, I don't think that people should be pulling up a Kanye West tweet to say, oh, you know what do I think about this bill? Or you know what I mean? Like, at this point, we all have access to the direct thoughts of political analysts. So why are we still waiting for fucking push a t to tell us who we should vote for? I can, I can give you kind of an answer to that. We shouldn't. No one should be looking towards the Donald

Trump for anything either. Sure know what I'm saying, because like he's the same manner of celebrity. No one should be looking to Paris Hilton to get any advice about anything important. Nobody should be looking. But unfortunately we're just in that reality to where we are to the to the tune of seventy one million people. You know what I'm saying, who, and it's it's I don't. I don't think.

I think the biggest explanation for is celebrity and the celebrity culture that we live in where and you add in social media, where people can cultivate these like bubbles in these cultural personality, you know, in in a positive note for artists, you can use that to sustain yourself and to strive, you know, and you cultivate your fan base that will support you no matter what and they're

gonna ride with you. But then if you see what what happens when you add in a couple of couple million dollars and some political uh political strategists and ship like that, and you can make a megaphone that just hypnotizes people in a way. So I guess in a certain way, it's it's kind of out of people's control to a certain degree. Yeah, I don't know. I go I go back and forth about this quite a bit. You know, this whole idea of I want I want rappers to talk more. And then I start thinking, like,

why should they have to? Like an artist's job is to create art, right, And on one hand, I'm like, well, they shouldn't be held responsible for anything outside of that. But at the same time, if this is also a culture thing, like you know, if you're if you're at the forefront of a culture and you understand that your culture is the most popular culture in the world, then I feel like, wouldn't you kind of want to make

things better? Wouldn't you, like, do you almost like a would you feel a sense of because yeah, like if you know, I'm trying to think like I can't say Kanye because Kanye is going through some ship, but like I'm trying to think of like a rap like I don't know. I hate, I hate to always throw this on Kendrick Lamar, but I mean, I guess he's probably

the most popular example of this. But if you're a Kendrick Lamar and you know that your words have heavy, heavy, heavy meaning and they they you know, wouldn't you want to like at least understand the weight of your words and use them in a way that could make things better? Or would you rather just keep rapping about the same ship that everybody's been rapping about for the last three decades. Part of me wants to say, well, ship, why aren't you using your voice right now to amplify the other

voices that are saying like what's going on? Or what you know what I mean as opposed to just being a part of the status quo. And I don't know, I don't know the answer to that. So UM I saw on Twitter when UM like fifty in them were when everybody was getting on maggot out towards the end of the election there that was kind of pissing you

off a bit. I mean, as as it was all of us, I guess, but I mean I I was one of the people who I just I knew I wanted to just like sit down and talk and just like pick their mind about what they were thinking during that was you so okay? So with ice Cube, he actually pissed me off the least out of the whole group of rappers that all of a sudden started talking, mainly because I don't think ice Cube meant any ill will with what happened. I think that ice Cube got played.

And that's that sucks is ice Cube either doesn't understand that he got played or he doesn't want to admit that he got played. But he got fucking played. And my whole thing is, I don't blame ice Cube for trying to use his platform to make things better. I blame ice Cube for being ignorant enough to think that this was going to work. Like I didn't see this contract with Black America. I never signed on for this ship.

And if I had a choice of the people that I would want to represent me in something like this no offense to ice Cube, but it wouldn't be ice Cube, you know what I'm saying. So like, but I don't blame him for taking his contract to Biden and Trump.

I think what sucks is the narrative got switched up after that to where it was like, oh, the Democrats ignored ice Cube and Trump listened to ice Cube, when it was really like, nah, man, the Democrats saw that your ship was basically in line with what they were already attempting to do. And Trump said, oh, look a nigger. I can use nigger to get other niggers a vote for me. And that was all it was. And eventually ice Cube never saw that, and I that's what that was.

That's what I meant by disappointing. I didn't mean it was it was disappointing as in he was like a bad person. It was disappointing as in, yeah, you know, I grew up thinking that like if something like that happened, that ice wouldn't be able to or ice Cube wouldn't be able to get like played by some punk as politician like pro you know, yeah that you know. So it was just kind of like a finding out there's no Santa Claus type of ship, like, oh man, that

could happen to be He's just the regulative um. But looking at it from ice Cube standpoint, right, ice Cube just got into politics. He said this, Yeah, he said this. He just got into politics. He writes up this contract with Black America and almost fucking immediately he has the President calling him being like, yes, let's talk, and he's like, what ship? This was easy? That's all I had to do. Wait,

I want to ask you something really quick. Were you actually surprised by not ice Cube, but people like fifty Wayne. Were you actually surprised by their stances on this? Here's the thing, here's the thing. Mm hm. Fifty was frilling to a degree, but no, I wasn't. And and this is this is part of the thing, right, And it's like we're it's not gonna work with what we had recorded before. But it's kind of like a a thesis that I've had where it's like, Yo, I think a

lot of these rap niggas are right wingers. Yo, you know what I'm saying, Like for real, I think I think we're I think we need to stop getting in this mode. And I think that the Trump is um stuff is kind of like bringing bringing making this more of a point it But we need to stop getting in this idea that like being black as a progressive position, you know what I mean, it's not I'm with you, like that's that's not that's not how that works like that,

you know. So, So with that being is like we need to understand that the fact the reason why a lot of black people vote Democrat, or I should even say why a lot of black people vote against Republicans is because Republicans have openly embraced like weird Nazi ship in fucking clan shit, you know what I'm saying, instead of them, if Republicans were just smart enough to be like, yo,

let's I'll just be racist. But let's not say that we're racist, Like let's like, yeah, let's just let's be like we love money, poor people, We love money, I love Jesus and my guns and blah blah blah. Yo, you have a lot of black people in America that would be comfort But with that, like for real, like that's wrapped about the same ship, like exactly, yeah, I rap about shooting guns and hating gay people all the time too, So let me get in you know what

I'm saying, So I think that's part of it. And I think Trump, in his connection to hip hop in the past, like the sort of the figure, the stature that he had as a figure, I think that's helped come into play to where I think a lot of guys I might even heard Ebro talking about this on the show once, but I think a lot of cats or silent because it's like they don't really have that much of a problem with ship. I mean, fifty Cent

in his troll summed it up best. I know Trump doesn't look like black people, but damn six in taxes. That's That's like they've been telling us this for forty years. Yeah, you know, it's about time we listen some Mikey, thank you for coming in and talking with us man one more time. Let the people know where they can find out all the stuff you're doing. Sure, um, you can find me on dead End hip Hop at YouTube dot com,

forward slash dead End hip Hop. You can find me personally, UM through my own avenues at mike ctown dot com, m y K E C t O w N dot com. I do other kinds of reviews, talk about records, talk about other nerdy ass ship you know, so yeah, you can get all your bases covered. You'll make sure you go check that out and supports coming on to come in. Well, that brings us to a close today and uh, I guess I'm gonna be the one closing the soft fire and m right, we got a little carried away with that.

Interview is a second episode in a row with no music review. We gotta do a long one for you all next time, yo, Joe, let me get a beat one more time. Make sure you follow dead End hip Hop. Check out Mike Satown their reviews. Follow linga Franca and Dope Knife on Instagram, fillow Dope Knife and Ling with Franca on Spotify. Subscribe to this podcast. Thank you guys for supporting one year old. Do you believe it? Yo? Yo, y'are swimming in the kids pool. I'm trying to let

the world know I even got the drip too. I'm pimping in the fur coat. I hit you with the big stool, swam sipping merlow and get up off my dick, fool. You probably call your girl bro. I'm knife, I in wonder, I brom when I'm in slumber. My mama or woop my ass on my music. I hired it from I bury these rappers not in the casket, but lying under the gap, spraying out more loads in the briant pumper. I'm the precipice. Ain't nobody fresh is this? And it's

like my Bible. Yo just rasped my will and testament remainstream. Niggas wanted to tell me I'm a relevant dog. I will reach into your ass, pull out your skeleton. You'll never win. That was uncalled for. That was uncalled for, an problem. I'm sorry, y'all. I'm gonna try to do better. Hey, I'm Lingua Franca. I'm dope knife. We are waiting on reparations. We'll see you next week. See you guys next week. Happy Thanksgiving, y'all. Waiting on reparations as a production of

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