Gang Shit

Watching is the bearer on the cops, so that it ain't have been flare up the blocks, Egg, you better prepare yourself. We keep the monitor past the binoculous dropping pair of scope. We're sending in Leslie Nope, front of the auspices of robbing hood. We got no other option. Take a portion of the part distributed to the barrio

marching in the Congress, taking down across America. Pay homage to the god of the rob should you motherfucking wrappers like a clover in time black version of Optimus Prime. But my product design served the last person with a sign of R nine. I'm leaving y'all into twine and you caught in a bond. This mad topics to find though when I'm under ground to the cheers, fade away

and it's time to retire. I'm painting the yash you're hoping with, dying of fire and ships make believe and what I'm busting sun I play for keeps you bumps and nothing but a bunch of motherfucking waste the beats. I'm a beast on stage. You're on a vacant streets, stepping a cipher and they bowl with that. You're making speed. I knock them down. Shakepeare's with a lot of style, box of mouth, giving you faking tears and crocking dials and you crack smoking. I'm only half choking. I'm baanging.

You're the bat poking. Get your back broken dope. My name's Dope night and we are waiting on reparations. Hurry up and we are back again for another episode. How

are you doing? I'm fine, only I'm just tripping because, like so earlier today I saw my psychiatrist all the little scummels because zoom once you know, skype or whatever, and I was talking about, you know, the upcoming wave of evictions and the waning of the protests and the unemployment benefits running out in Congress not getting shit enough about working people to like pass anything to help us. And he was like, well, do you think your medication

is working? And I'm like, does it fucking sound like it? You hear the tone in my voice as I describe the horror with which I am surveying the world. And it's just an interesting moment where he was like, Oh, you're right. I guess there's nothing really I can do to help you because the world is a fucking hou escape. Have a good day. That'll be two fifty bucks. You're welcome. It's ridiculous that it's like the first thing that he would think to say is do you want some drugs?

Or are you taking your drugs? But if you draw to the dress artist, like do you what the fund? Do you think? Now? I feel you though? Like, um, for real, I got hit by like a wave of depression like a few days ago where I was just down,

like for two days straight. And it was just because you know, normally, since you know, you know, the whole deal is like when you make music independently and when you when you're like an independent artist, you're always thinking like two or three steps ahead if you're smart, you know what I mean. You think you're thinking about what you're gonna be doing, you know, five months from now. And it's just like with everything going on, it's just been it's been hard to have that sort of vision

like and envisioning like the future like that. So it was just putting me down. But I didn't had to start working on the episode that kind of brought me up. So here we are. Here we are yeah, um, oh

you know what else did happened? Yeah? So um. Earlier this week, the police Department here at Athens release the result of their internal investigation about their conduct the night of May thirty one, which was the big march that I led and then a bunch of my friends got to your guests and shot with Leslie's ammunitions and the fun What do you think they fucking found? I'm assuming they didn't do anything wrong. According to that, we investigated

ourselves and found we did no wrongdoing. And it's so funny because like at first they didn't admit that they used like bean backgrounds, and now they admit they did. They claimed that like protesters were hiding like bricks in their tents and they were going to fucking throw with

the cops. And now they admit the no bricks were found on the folks they arrested, And it's like they're admitting to all these lies in this report that supposed to it was all of any wrongdoing, because because they conducted at their own investor, it doesn't even make sense that they did anyone do an investigation on themselves like that. It's like have you ever have you ever read the

comic folk Watchman? No haven't, or there's like, yeah, yeah exactly the film, Yeah yeah, but who watches The Watchman? I mean like it's it's on some street level ship of like nobody snitch exactly. But I mean that's just how it is, Just like any sort of like gang er organized group where everyone's looking out for each other

and no one's gonna there. They look at everybody else's being the outsiders, and they look at themselves as being like, you know, the inner circle, and they don't deviate outside that quote unquote family. So yeah, first rule of five clubs. You don't talk about five club They don't fucking say ship to nobody to turn in their own under any circumstances. What does that sound like to you? Sounds like a fucking gang to me, gang gang gang gang gang gang gang.

That brings us to our topic afterday. Before we get on that, let me give a shout out to the homie One Cosby out of Cincinnati, Ohio. He's the one who's provided the beach for today. That's One Cosby at one Cosby on Instagram. So go check him out in holler med him for some beats because he's got some fire. All right. Yeah, I think when you look at the history and then of police saying look at the history of gangs, there's so many parallels and moments of intersection,

uh that kind of spring up. And so I mean, at this point it's almost like, you know, we say it all the time, and that's what this episode is about. But at this point it's kind of even a cliche the comparison of police to gangs, because it's like something

that everybody pretty much accepts for this point especially. And when I talk about parallels, I'm not talking about like a linkage between like police budgets and like crime rates, because nationally that has not been found to exists, but rather the way the parallels culture, culture and the way they operate. Yeah, and a touch on that we're gonna be talking with hip hop and spoken word artists propaganda who's the co host and hosts, respectively of the Behind

the Police and Hood Politics podcasts? But um, how did we end up here? Like, how do we end up with what we have as a centralized police force in America? Policing in the United States mirror the development of policing in England. One informal form it took was referred to as watch or private for profit policing. Yeah, so the watch system was made up on like community volunteers, but the main duty of warning incoming danger, so between like like sixty six and sev hundred um. A similar night

watch was created in Boston, New York and Philadelphia. Now, the night Watch wasn't really that effective at controlling crime because for the most part, those guys were drinking and falling asleep while they were on duty, and most volunteers were trying to avoid military service. And we're drafted into service by their town or we're performing watch dudis is punishment. Another system was the constable system official law enforcement officers.

They were paid a fee for warrants they served. Constables had a bunch of non law enforcement jobs as well, including land surveyors and weights and measure inspectors. And then in the South, policing had its roots and slave patrols, a squads of white volunteers given the green light to enforce laws related to slavery, capturing and returning escape slaves, calling slave rebellions, and enforcing plantation rules with harsh and

often statistic punishments. The first slave patrol was in modern day South Carolina in seventeen o four, and they had three primary functions to chase, down, apprehend, and return slaves to their owners, To provide a form of organized terror to deter slave revolts, and to maintain a form of discipline for slave workers who were subject to plantation justice outside of the law if they violated any plantation rules.

After the Civil War, these vigilante groups merged in the modern Southern police departments, mainly as a way of controlling freed former slaves who are now working in the agricultural cast system, enforcing a set of racist government policies called the Black Codes, designed to deny ead black people equal rights and access to the political system The codes also

restricted traveling and housing. In eighteen sixty eight, the Black Codes were rendered illegal about the Fourteenth Amendment, but within twenty years Jim Crow segregation laws got around that ever adopted across the South, and enforcement of those laws so put it in the hands of Gusts fucking who. The in the eighteen thirties is when the idea of a centralized municipal police department first emerged in the United States.

And it's really funny because I got an arguments with people on Instagram about this because on four the July I posted about the fact that you know, we're celebrating this holiday about the founding of our country, and in seventeen seventy six, the police as we know it did not exist in America, and for the majority of human history, indeed, policing as an institution, as the centralized municipal police department that you know I read to the eighteen thirties did

not exist throughout human society. And so when we talk about abolition, etcetera, we're really talking about in a sense, getting back to our roots of like other forms of accountability and other forms of um UH security and public safety through like community based like, you know, not just seeing your neighbors, not not not sorry, not just watching your neighbors, but like seeing them for who they are

and understanding them, understanding them. Yeah, and so um, I mean, does I feel like that's what a lot of this moment and what's going on is about, is about like completely changing people's whole way of looking at stuff, you know, more so than just necessarily reforming an institution. Yeah. No, I think I think the idea of like even you know, defunding the police or police abolition requires us to stop

outsourcing all of our problems to the state. It asks a lot more of us as private citizens to you know, be a and like surveying the conditions on our street, not just for crime to occur, but crime prevenge strategies

and making sure our neighbors have everything they need. I mean, we could talk about expanding the quote unquote welfare state as a way to deter crime, but ultimately it does do think it comes down to like mutual aid and like mutual accountability on the community level, and like the responsibility that requires of us. People are like I don't have to do all that ship. I want to make

sure my neighbors got fucking cheerios and fucking milk. Well, I mean, the thing is like a and this is I guess it's kind of where, you know, not growing up here kind of comes into perspective for me. But it's just like, I don't know how if you know that there are people who are hungry, Like, how do you walk around it like thinking that there shouldn't or won't be crime of some sort, Like you think people

are just gonna like starve. I mean, I know it's all relative, like everybody's definition of what they're but if you we all live this life in America knowing that it's unfair and it's unequal and a lot of people have it harder than other people, we're gonna what do you think is going to happen? I'm not saying that that's right, I'm saying, what do you expect to happen?

You know? Yeah, I was helping organized folks UM as a part of the National uh Strike for Black Lives where SCIU and Teamsters and the Poor People's Campaign and other UM allied organizations across the country were encouraging workers to walk off the job. And how I was explaining, like what this what relevance. This held for the moment that we're in is that economic justice is racial justice.

In a world without crimes of survival, are reliance upon institution of policing is greatly decreased, some might even argue eliminated. And so when we address those economic justice issues of people having those foundation foundational needs met UM so that they can thrive UM through you know, living wage employment or through strong social safe being, it that helps them gain UM and keep meaningful employment, we won't have to we won't have to worry about you know, homies down

here fighting outside the homeless shelter. But anyway, I'm sorry, I got a little bit off time. UM. So police have only existed in America for like a little little shy have two hundred years. UM. One reason that they first emerged was that cities were growing and with the US no longer being a collection of small cities and rural towns, with urbanization occurring at a pace that made the watching constable systems no longer good enough to stop

this disorder. They had to transition to something more centralized. And we'll come back to that word disorder, but yeah, the general public disorder was more visible and less easily controlled in growing urban centers than it had been in rural areas. Increasing crime and visible vice, you know, public

drunkenness and sometimes prostitution. Mob violence, for particularly violence directed at immigrants and African Americans took place frequently, um, but there is no evidence that there was like a crime way back then that made them say, hey, we gotta start a centralized police force. Like that's not really what

was going on. Yeah, I think the keyword here is visible vice because I think Alexandria Cossio Cortez in a recent interview was talking about how what folks and this has been contested by abolitionists, but like we was talking about how folks uh need to think of defunding the police as advocating for black communities to be police like white communities. Are white communities where visible vice is not

so much of an issue. People aren' drinking down the street corner or standing out, you know, up by the stop sign hooking, because they're doing these things behind closed doors on private properties, whether or not seen, and thus it kind of keeps this image of public order. Kentucky University criminologist Gary Potter and his paper The History of

policing in the United States stated more than crime. Modern police forces in the United States emerges a response to quote disorder will constitute social and public order depends largely on who is defining those terms, and in the cities of the nineteenth century America, they were defined by mercantile interests, whose taxes and political influence supported the development of bureaucratic policing institutions. These economic interests had a greater interest in

social control than crime control. Private and for profit policing was to disorganize and to crime specific inform To fulfill these needs, the emerging commercial elites needed a mechanism to ensure a stable and orderly workforce, a stable and orderly environment to conductive business, and the maintenance of what they referred to as the collective good. These mercantile interests also wanted to divest themselves the cost of protecting their own enterprises,

transferring those costs from the private sector to the state. Hey, so we got a special guest today, Oh yes we do. Who is that? We have? Jason Emmanuel Petty, or known to the world as a propaganda games the same amount of jail time. It's eighteen of cocaine, but eight say the same thing. It's crooked, stay eat known kind and must worsnd instead of celebrating shine and hip hop and spoken word artists and poet from Los Angeles, California and the co host up behind the police and politics prop

How are you today? I'm all right man. You know you gave a full government though YO said, I didn't need to put the fans just watching. You know what I'm talking about. I don't really talking about the police. No,

we're good. I'm all good man. We uh we um on a personal note, or like the house we're renting, we're looking into buying, so which is super dope, which means now I have an office uh over here like not recording in my bedroom with my like daughter taking her nap right on the other side of the wall. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, So tell us a little bit about yourself for folks that may not be familiar with their work. Yeah, yeah, How would you describe yourself?

Man um Almo Tall drink of walk Nona. I am south central Los Angeles, you know, born and bred in l A, moved around the cornucopia Los Angeles. Um, I don't know how familiar listeners are. But like Sand Valley, Whittier, Long Beach, I've lived in pretty much all of it. Lived in i E. For a little bit. Um My Uh moms from d C. Dad from Texas. My father was a black panther. Uh. Fell in love with hip hop at in Lamart Park in l A. And Um.

I went to college for illustration and in their cultural studies, and then I went on to get a masters in social science. I taught history for six years. Um. And I was just a hardcore battle rapper the whole time, you know. And then uh, yeah, you know what I'm saying. Fell in love of poetry in college. Um and in our story right right yeah, and uh and just kind of been like you know, there was a moment where I had to make a decision as far as like was I gonna continue in the education to be a

teacher or like you know, those opportunities were arising. It's kind of funny story, I don't I know, ya ya yr listeners to appreciate it. Like I was crew I was with was Was We produced album on Caress one, um, and he was going to take us on tour. So I was like, yo, I'm out this job. The teachers didn't take me to shot and uh and it wasn't my shot, but but it was an amazing experience. You

know what I'm saying that I'll never forget it. But either way, that was Like I I left the classroom around that time and then, um, yeah, I kind of been doing music and poetry and sort of activism. I come from my activist family. Like I said, my father was a Panthers, So I kind of came from that already and just kind of been doing that of a since. So what so what was his involvement with the Panthers,

Like was he an organizer? Was he? Like? Yeah, so I know they did a lot of different kinds of things, Like yeah, so Pops was after school tutor and he was doing like some of the some of the the bussing, the transfers things. My father was at the watch chapter forty one and Central down here and the one that went the CIA bottle, the one with one of the ones that c Yeah, so yeah, he was a part of He was a part of the the after school tutoring.

My dad. You know, after he came back from Vietnam, he was a went on to to go to u C. L A And get his Afro Studies degree in sociology. So my father was very intelligent man. And UM, so his big thing was like education is the way, so he that was that was that was where he participated the most, was in the after school tutoring. And how has like the how have those activist roots influenced the

way you move in the world. Man, It's it's like it's hard to not see the need and it's hard to not see you know, sort of a a a much more sort of intersectional kind of like a very disinclusive understanding of what you know, interlocking systems of the justice look like how to have advocacy across different borders and different lines. Um. Because of again the way that like I was taught to even understand power and how you interface with power and how power uh interfaces with

with the population. You know, it was just because of that sort of like like I said, like very well read activism that like my father had. It's like you just you were you were able to see it every everywhere. And then secondly, just being from l A, like I was on the east side of South Central. I know it's a lot of directions, but um, on the east side of South Central. It bordered the Latino community, so

we're we're butting up against UM. Like the next street over was an area called Huntington Park, which I mean there's no signs in English in Huntington Park, you know what I'm saying. So like I I lived on this like borderlands to where I just I understood the immigrant the you know, specifically the Mexican American immigrant UM experience UM and could just see so many like I'm like they that's the same ship, Like they're doing that, you know what I'm saying. So it was just hard to

not It's hard to not notice it. And realized that like a lot of our work where we was doing and what my father was doing for the black community was like yo, like y'all could do this too, Like y'all need this to you know what I'm saying. And UM. So that like sort of intersectional understanding I think kind of came from having that lord like activists like father, know what I'm saying. Are there any like areas where you're hip hop and your activism like intersect I mean

the whole time, Like that's the funny part. Like again, you know, I the wing of hip hop I fell in love with. And I know that's another similarity because I saw the song as y'all chose for this episode. It's like, you know, I grew up going to you know, Uh, I don't know how familiar you are with just like the l A Rap scene as far as like good Life, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I grew up going to that. Like I was too young,

So I was too young for the Good Life. I snuck in snug right, but it was a healthfu cafe. So it's like, I mean, so what for people who might not know what that is? What is? What is? So the Good Life wasn't wasn't open mic sort of like workshop that evolved into sort of this battle scene,

but you couldn't curse. Yeah, it was very clean. You couldn't curse because of uh sort of our our our kind of patriarch of that area, like the Mert Park is the sort of like l A's Harlem, so a lot of like activism, old jazz, like a lot of the sixties stuff. It was right on Cranshaw Boulevard again,

which is like Black Renaissance areas of Los Angeles. Um, so it was already a community that was like there, our elders were activists, Our elders were like you know, were these So if hip hop was going to be born there, it was gonna look like where we were born in, you know what I'm saying. So freestyle fellowship. So these were like my heroes, you know, um yeah, so yeah, so freestyle fellowship. Like I mean I saw, you know, I saw, I saw. I remember seeing Corrupt

and Snow you know what I'm saying. I remember seeing these guys come to these open mics. I remember people flying in. I the Juice and Supernatural battle like that was was that blow? You know what I'm saying. So like, yeah,

so we saw these things. I remember, you know a Unity which was over on the American Miracle Montains do with all these like l A deep cuts, but like, uh that's where are when when M battled this guy named Otherwise you know, for this for this event that like Drey saw him at like and lost, you know, like that particular battle he lost, you know what I'm saying.

But like you know, the Rhyme Fest battles, like all these different like moments, all these people were all already their hip hop was already an active protests so if that's sort of the primortal suit that I kind of came from. It was like this is what I knew. You know what I'm saying, this is this is what I understood. I you know, we were in l A. But like, like if you saw the good documentary, like we all weren't we all weren't defunk, Like we all weren't.

We all came from everybody there, there's a bunch of different flavors. Yeah, you know, we all came from ganghoods, but like we didn't all we weren't all gangs. So yeah, so that's kind of like that stuff really saying to me. So transitioning, Like, so you've been a hip hop artist and an activist for all these years. How did you get into the podcast game? Because you're the you know, you're the coast of the Behind the Police podcast. Also you got the Hood Politics podcast. So how did you

get into that? Dude? I So I started as I started doing music, and you know, and the type of music I was doing, I was getting a lot of like speaking opportunities, um, and then sort of you know, I wrote a few op eds for you know, a couple couple of outlets and people started saying, Yo, you should do a podcast, you do a podcast podcast. And at the time, I was like, man, about what man, Like, you know what I'm saying? Like I don't. I don't know what you want me to say. You know what

I'm saying it? Who's really going to tune in weekly? You feel me? And at the time, like when it first started, I was like, well, I'm an artist. I don't have you know what I'm saying, Like, you know, you have these like lofty ideas of not understanding like multiple streams of income all this stuff and just what a what abroad like fully developed artists you could be. So anyway, I got offered a show that me and my wife actually started doing. It was called The Red

Couch Podcast UM, which was where it originally started. I was offered by this this magazine called Relevant. They were launching this like whole podcast network. They wanted me to be like the flagship UM, and so they were the ones that were like, you can write, you can do whatever you want, and I didn't. I was like, I don't uh about what you know what I'm saying? So so so memo, I just kind of made up the podcast.

You know what, I'm saying, and then out of that groo hood politics, because that pub politics at first was just a section in the broader. It was just one of the bits in Red Couch, you know what I'm saying, And then it kind of took its own life and and was just people were tuning in just for the first twenty minutes of the show, you know, just for the red just for the hood politics section, and then

tune it out. And then other people were tuning in for the last forty because they just wanted to hear my wife talk because she's brilliant in her own right, you know actually and more right, she's PhD and a policy and social context is brilliant. This is gonna be the hardest thing you do in your life. I'm surprised our marriage last. Yes, uh and she almost is funny at the end of that, she almost didn't want to like go through the like the ceremony and like walking

across the stage. I was like, girl, I'm walking across if you're not gonna walk an walk like that was the hardest thing. I can't believe it anyway. Uh so yeah, so so, so it became like for me, podcasting was just like this like creative, uh way to get ideas out that I didn't have sort of like my identity so wrapped up into like I did with like hip

hop poetry. Like so it was like this could just be I could just like the pressure was off, you know what I'm saying, because I just feel like I didn't. I didn't. This wasn't this wasn't the air I breathe. And then it kind of like took on a life of its own and now it's like, dude, I really love like podcasting. And then Behind the Police thing was like legit just a d M. Like, yes, I was

following you know Robert show. His show was just you know, I don't even familiar with the show show Behind the Bastards. I was just yeah, I was just a fan of it, and so I started following him and we started like chopping it up back and forth, cracking jokes, and then I did a show on the Panthers with him, like he again direct messaged me like hey, because he said he was working on one, and I was like, oh yeah,

my dad was a panther. So then he direct messaged me and was like, hey, you want to be on the show, And I was like, yeah, well let me so I imped it that called my pops to be like, let me make sure I have like my timeline. I don't want to make a fool of myself on this thing. So, um, so we did the show. The show, like you know, the numbers were pretty good. And then he had later on had this idea about the behind the Police thing and was like, eight, do you want to like calls

with this? This would mean it was legit, just a direct message. It's good to know that, like you can still like that could happen anyone with the social media, democratized information, democratized relationship making like it happen anybody. But yeah, talk to us a little bit about, um some topics that come up on her politics, and then we'll talk a little bit about some of the highlights for you

from being a part of Behind the Police. Yeah. So her politics is it's based on a really basic premise of if if you survived inner city in any city in America, if you understood gang life, you understand geo politics. Hell, if you if you survived the eighth grade, you know what I'm saying, you understand geo politics. Because I honestly believe politics is just gangbanging in nice suits, like it's

it's the same. So what I wanted to do with this pod is take whether it's like hot takes from just like the current events of the current zygeist, or it's like, you know, continual threads, like you know, whether it's America's like involvement in the Middle East or what

what the hell of colde War is? Or how do you explain sanctions and tearraffs, and like all these things that um, you know, are are are have its own language, have its own like you know, vocabulary and stuff like that, and like people like you and me are oftentimes, especially if you ain't got no like you know, self fixes at the Indian names, you ain't gonna like degrees and nothing, you kind of feel like these people are like smarter than you, like you know what I'm saying, Like you

can't like I'm not welcoming to this conversation. And what I wanted to do with this pod was be like, actually, you understand this stuff very well. You know, you've been living at your whole your whole life, especially from the hood.

So I say all that. For example, let's say we were talking about Let's just say we were talking about sanctions, right, Um, so China's you know, trying to I don't know you was losing the tariff war and we was gonna sanction uh China, China, this YadA YadA, like what was going through all this stuff? And just might say, well, what the hell is the sanction? And I'm like, well, it

kind of works like this. Let's just say, um, you, Mariah are the plug, right, so you got all the weight, It's all in your hands, right, And um, you know, I don't know your little cousin Pookie, right, he lived on the other side of town, and he wants to sell your weight, right well, and so so Fookie over there with the Mariah with the Mariah Waite, right. But Pooky's neighborhood gets to be like wait wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, hold up, we produce our own weight.

You're not allowed to. We got our own plug over here. You can't just be selling. You can just be selling to my neighborhood like this, right. And if you are, then like I'm I'm feeling like I'm attached you for this, Like then I need for you need to run back to this block. If you're finna sell over here. Right, So at the end of the day, your cousin trying to sell your weed in his neighborhood, but his neighborhood not allowing him to sell unless he pays, you know

what I'm saying. So I'm like, that's like, so you know that's already know this stuff. You already know how this works. It's just new vocals and they dress it up in language that's unfamiliar, but the processes themselves are incredibly familiar. Already you already know it. Right. We all know a Kim jongle. We all know one. We're all knowing. It's it's your little It's it's a little brother who's just mad that his big brother always gets to shine.

And you can't never say nothing to him because he's he's always ready to scrap. And if just in the way to handle that dude, and you know he ain't gonna throw the punch, You're not gonna really do. He just talking a lot of ships, just yell at the time. He just always talking ship. So you're just like, yo, the best way to deal with him is to be like, Okay, it's your world, big it's your world. Dog. No nobody wanted with you you good? You good? Can you just

chill though? Right? And then and then and then his his big brother, which would be South Korea, being like, y'all, can't don't rile this one because I gotta go home. And at some point and at some point if he does lose it, he's gonna listen on me first, he's gonna lose it on me, So y'all need to chill. Like, so I had a question. So it's it's funny that, like you draw that comparison between geo politics and hood

politics and things. So do you see any you know, people always talk about how the police are the biggest gang. There's a couple of songs that we're gonna be talking about where you know, people make reference to that. So like what's your opinion on like just that parallel or that analogy between like police and them just being another gang on the street like the other game. I mean, it couldn't be more accurate, like especially when you go into like the stuff like just the history of the police.

I just don't know, I have no I can't see any distinction from a historical perspective, and then also from my own experience, it's like, Okay, if I'm gonna talk about just my own experience in inner city Los Angeles. If i turned down a particular street and I'm walking home with my new like no, my new Jordan's new Air Force ones, and I turn a corner coming home from school with a backpack, and I catch some boys

in blue. Whether they crips or cops, it don't make no difference, right if I if they come around that corner, one of them is gonna flag me down, like hey, hey, hey, hey, Hony, where are you going? You know, it's like here we go. I'm going who who, Where you stay at? Where your where your grandma stay? What you're doing on the street? Right? Um, I'm just I'm just cutting through the that's my my family bank, this stay from there? Yea, yeah, You're like,

oh where were you from? You know what I'm saying that you started going to ask me all these questions interrogations, and and my only way out of this is either I'm gonna catch a fade or I have to hand over equipment. Right So I'm like, or I'm gonna be in trouble. I'm like, Okay, that's that's street loss, Like all right, this what's gonna happen. I'm gonna henna, right, I'm here, gonna run my backpack and run my shoes or I have to be like I'll die for this.

And I said always, I have to answer this dude, like, listen, I would die for my backpack. You know it's stupid, but it's like that's those were the rules. So if I come around the corner and it's the cops, who hey, hey sir, how are you doing young man? What do you we? Are you doing here? Really really can't see your idea? Where do you live? I'm like, I'm having the same scenario. Where'd you get those shoes? Yeah? Did

you do? You steal them? Maybe somebody got them? And I'm like what I even asked me, like no, my both my parents were right, Okay, well you've seen the fifth description of someone that was causing trouble on this street. So I need to see what's in your backpack? What's this? And I'm like, it's the same scenario. You are gonna go through my stuff. I'm about to get search and if I don't keep it cool, I'm gonna catch a faith.

So I'm like, I just don't and y'all not gonna say nothing about each other even if somebody is out of line, because I mean, I mean, the thing I was kind of difference is that the police police the

gang supposedly, but nobody polices the police. Nobody policing him. Listen, listen on one of the episodes at My Homeboy, Bamboo, he's part of Soule Assassins, even famili but like, yeah, so yeah, so Bamboo was talking about like, man, there are times that like and I was asking him, like if he had any like if you remember any of the little hot heads in his in his life, in his hood that would get everybody in trouble, and he

was like, yes, it was my own cousin. So like, you know, you all sitting you all sitting down, you are sitting down like mone of your own business. And then this fool starts mouthing off, which is basically which is basically what happened with with um, with us shooting Sulamani. Right, It's like somebody started mouthing off, right, you know. And

so he was like, yeah, that's what happened. Somebody starts mouthing off, The homeboy starts mouthing off, and then he turns back at you and he's like, hey, hey, we got beef with these fools, like y'all the enemy being a ride and it's like, no, no, no no, no, no, no, no way, but we have who is we fool? Like you you're the one that started stacking on this fool, just like you're I'm sitting here in the taco you were banging on homie. So now, but you know what,

Am I gonna say that in public? Hell no, I'm gonna go ride like because that's my squad. And that's so like you have that same exact mentality, the same rules, even even though you see a guy that you're like, this man is completely out of line. I mean, that's what we're watching in the news right now. We all know killers of Brianna Taylor, we all know the killers of Joyce. Everybody there know they were out of line.

Right anybody's gonna say nothing because it's good ship. You're not gonna say nothing, I know because I wouldn't if this was my hood. I'm not. I mean, I'm gonna checking when we get you, feel me, But I'm not gonna check him in public. And that's what I feel like. Cops don't really understand that like they would if if they would just check themselves, they probably would be given

a lot more benefit of doubt about stuff. It would be so much easier for the just on their on their behalf, Like this isn't like on the yes, when I think about, they were to come up with like a rule amongst themselves and they're like, alright, look guys, all right, for every tenth person, for every tenth unarmed person that gets shot, we're all going to agree that that one's bad. If they would, even if they would even give that ground system, few people wouldn't. It wouldn't right.

I think about, Like I think about again, Like the street part is like at some point one of the shot callers are gonna come from jail, right, so one of the ogs are gonna be like, all right, Parliament, you know what I'm saying. And I know that's what happened in l A. That's why drive by stopped. It's because the O g s made the call from prison like hey, this is and I hate to say it, but they were like, look, this is just not g

Like you can't just what are you doing? Like you can't just draw you hitting innocent people like this is ridiculous, you know what I'm saying. And that was because the gang checked the game, like you know what I'm saying, like, and if you have somebody in your hood that's mouthing off like like you know, Bamboo's cousin, there was always a big homie I could call and be like, Hey, I don't know what's up with this fool like. Look, I mean we we handled it like we went down there.

We did we had to do, but like this fool like he set us like we didn't. We didn't have to have this problem because guy was like hollering and then that dude's gonna check him and be like all right, tell uncle, you know what I'm saying. So like like like you said, like there is it's weird, but there is an infrastructure in some way with just like street it. Yeah.

So I learned a lot from behind the police about how police unions kind of operate to shield folks from accountability and keep folks on the job, to sort of close the ranks up in these ways. Did was there anything else from you're working on that show that really stuck out to you as like a highlight of like a piece of history, you learned about the way police

operate that was new to you. Yeah. I think that, like the things that really stuck out to me was like the difference between what was happening in the North and what was happening in the South, and then how they were different, but how they were interconnected, like you know, the the the north, you know, was what the research that we saw was, like it was really about like protecting sort of like property, right, Yeah, the first police departments came about to break up like labor strikes and

to like capital, and they were operating something in the South with slave patrols that turned into police departments protecting capital in a different way. Yeah, exactly, so that the capital was just humans. Yeah, you know. Uh so, so I think that like that sort of like differences and sort of like the mind bender. It was when you had sort of like labor unions striking and then the

company's hiring free black people. That's like what do you like saying, Well, I don't know what to say about this one, because because and and then and it's like how that stoked so many like even even a divide even for are between poor people in general. You know what I'm saying, but like and and it's like, dude, how do you how do you untangle that? Like these are these are free slaves that are just like, yo, you mean to tell me you're gonna pay me to work?

That sounds great, you know what I'm saying, And and being like and there and from their perspective, not even understanding why anyone would possibly strike, like why would you why would you do that? You know what I mean? And um, just that that jugs the position. Just that moment in history I think was like the most like the one I didn't know it. And then too it was just like dude, like you you can't, Like history is just so man, girls, it's so entangled and twisted. Yeah.

I had been aware of the way that like the white and black working class have been kind of pitted against each other to protect capital and how that is like kind of hampered label labor struggles, particularly in the South historically, but I did not know about that particular piece of the history. Yeah, am, people sort of like came and undermine the moment. She's you know, and it's like I just like, you can't. It just reminded me

of like, I know, it's trivial. But it just reminds me of like the the Breaking Bad series to where you're like, I don't know whose side I'm on, you know what I'm saying, Like when you're whether it's like Walter or Skyler, I'm like, I, damn, I don't know because I I don't know, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, So it really like it really it really threw that section,

like really threw me for a loop. And then it was like, but one of the takeaways I really appreciated about this event is like or that that series is that all of those things that poor people or people of color and specifically black people have kind of just known but had no receipts for. I feel like, yo, you're not crazy. You know what I'm saying. Here here

is eight hours of receiving you know that. Like so I just I appreciate like Robert, like Robert was like, man, I mean he did the lord's work for this one, like he did he did I mean the the lifting of the receipt of the of the research, you know, and um yeah, I just get like that feeling of being like, listen, we have something we've given to the culture that's gone staying. You know, let's go, that's here forever,

you know. So now, so for today, we're gonna look at something well known and something less well known songs addressing the police. In specific, I wanted to pick songs that were more or less about police corruption, the first being J Dells The police ste Business. Okay, so do you what are your thoughts about the police prob I mean, first of all, I just I'm already like a Dilla nerd,

you know, So there's that, right, Uh. I think like I think that the interest of that one or the one of the things so interesting about about this particular song is like you know, the backstory you heard the backstory about it that like you know, he he was apparently he was working on an album for Busta Rhymes and his basement got rated, you know, at mom Duke's house, you know what I'm saying, Like you like call his basement got raided. They destroyed page, they destroyed, like, he

destroyed so much stuff. So that night he made that song because the police just like rated his mom's house because they heard something, you know what I'm saying. So, and Dilla being who he is, like you know, in the beginning stades of this lupus and just all this stuff was happening, like so like the backstory behind this song for me makes it even that much more like no, not dilla, you know what I'm saying. It's like it's like it's like fresh, it's fresh, palpable anger, like that

should just happen. Yeah, and you can hear to me, it's like you could hear that in this song that it's like it's very it's definitely angry. Yeah, definitely, it's definitely a reaction. Yeah, this just happened, you know what I'm saying. And yeah, so for me, it's like that's why it's always been such a like um, such a stickler for me. And it's just like you know you obviously we had the n W A one, but like this was so like it was such a B boy swing because it was della and it became for me

more more of an anthem. Even on my l A Boy that song came. And then also around the around like the time that I was coming up, at some point they ended up using the instrumental for this for some anime. I'm trying to remember what it was. Was it Sam? Was it Samurai Champloo. I can, like, when I really listened to it, I can hear the like I don't remember, Yeah, I'll go back and find out. But it was one of those joints I used to play on adults swim. But I just remember, like you would.

You would hear it because all of my own homies were watching that that show, so you would hear that beat. And then b boys would always break two. And then I remember the first time I heard the first time I heard the song and heard the lyrics and it I was like, oh, the songs like about something hearing the instrumental for years. Yeah, No, this was definitely like

you know, the Cipher song. You know what I'm saying that Little Groovers would just like you know, hit the hit, the hit the middle of the start going to start from doing a freestyle dance because it because it's just so just that first those first eight ball first eight like bars are just so big, you know. All right, I'm next. We got Big l The Enemy featuring Cat y'all want so bad you want to frisk me and sold the old kind of names, trying to hurt dude,

just mad because I'm with y'all. Cat so I think I think the theme, the overall theme for that one, it kind of is like, um, you know, we're we're legit. Now we're successful, so we're not really like committing crimes anymore. But Big L. Shoos is like convey that message like almost entirely through his interaction with police, and like how that harassment is carried on from before he was famous

to now being famous. It's just like dual consciousness, right, It's like, Okay, so we you know, we understand, you know, I mean, you know, crack sales isn't good, Like this

wasn't this wasn't good for us, you know. But at the same time, you know, we understand that you know, this stuff didn't happen in the vacuum, you know, and and and and it wasn't necessarily the desired route for everyone, you know, just like trying to figure out what's the best way to do this, and then when you get to a place to where you're like, okay, I could put these were you know, these were crimes of survival.

They were nobody scrubbing them clean, not saying that these were bad things, you know, done, but but raut of it now, you know, and just that letdown of like but it's it's but it's you can't save you. Yes, it's the same. I'm still seeing the same you know. Um the yeah, like the hard part of being like I I remember, it's like you we can't clean up enough, you know what I'm saying, Like you can't. There's no

this is not respectable. Respectability a policy and you get bit by dogs and fire holes and being whip yeah, and it's like you're saying thing, We're like, uh, class you know, we have all these class aspirations um as hip hop artists, Like it's a part of our class aspiration is a part of our culture. But these things can't can't save you because ultimately of the streets on you, when you roll down the street, when you know, get pulled over, they're gonna immediately be like where's it gunn

at are you selling rocks? Like all of these kinds of things, They're going to be scared the same way and have the same sort of reaction in the rational fear and ship like yeah, yeah. What I think about when I listen to the song is like I feel like if it's like it's um, how do I say this, Like there's a lot of interesting ways that hip hop access like journalism for conditions on the ground, for people

of color. And you know, you have a lot of songs that sort of impressionistic lee capture like life on the streets in terms of like what you see in your surroundings, people standing out on the street, corner altercations going down, things that are happening in your home. And

then you have this other kind of sub genre. It's funny that you brought up like, oh, this is jay Z before jay Z, because I think like nine of the Problems has a very similar um structure as this song in terms of like it being an anecdote of a personal account of of an interaction with police, and this is very common encounter of like specifically getting like pulled over and like you know, asked all these questions and like you were talking about at the beginning, like

well your mama say that, like um, and so I love one day to like take a look at songs in this like I don't know the subcategory, this classification of these like personal accounts of this kind of interaction because similar to like Shakespeare had its sonnets, and then you know, it's like love poems, et cetera. And this is like a special kind of hip hop song that you see over and over again. Oh can we can we just take one second just to comment on just

how ill that big L versus? I mean, boyd, this this ship just makes you want to like, Yo, why am I rapping? Yeah? All right? Our next song is karus one Sound of the Police? What would you be doing that? I got the same. This is so dope. Like the parallel between with the overseer and the officer. Ye was the one thing I'll say, do you want

to talk about the stupid? That is a stupid? Was the one overseer one on the plantation officer I patrolling all the nation, overseer could stop you, what what you're doing? Officer of a point, just when he's pursuing. It didn't hit me until it didn't hit me until I was much older, when he was going oversee you, oversee you. Obviously obviously the officer was a special back then You're like, oh did you caress what's that? Yeah? I was like, oh he's the greatest. Yeah, I didn't remember what he

did that. I was like, oh yeah, this is yeah, Oh there was um. Recently, I think just the other day, Kanye West put out a new song, and um, the beginning of it had it was like a recording of his mother reciting the lyrics for the song. Yeah, it's really Yeah, do you want to go into the next one? Oh? I mean do we need to be what else? What about this one? I mean it's it's you know, it is your officer thing. And then he kind of puts it in it's like historical contacts with like the lineage

of police went. At the end, He's like, my grandfather had to deal with the cops, my great grandfather had to deal with the cops, my great great grandfather had to deal with the cops, and then my great great great great winner gotta stop totally. And I think, uh again, like you know, so so Dila's you know, Dealer's the police was more around my adulthood to where I understood what was happening. You know, the sound of the police like that was more of my childhood. So I didn't

really really understand what he was saying. You know what I'm I mean, I got it because I knew, like I knew I liked the police, you know what I'm saying. No,

I feel that heavy. Like to me, it's like, um like Sound of the Police, Like when I was a kid, it was kind of like a movie almost right where you knew it was kind of you knew it was based on real ship, but there was like a certain disconnect from it, whereas like the Dealership, like I was in my twenties when that was going on, that ship was like actually happening to me, like exactly, that's what

I was saying. Yeah, I was like, it wasn't happening to me with care Us doing it, But when Dealer was doing it, I was like, yeah, I got Yes, I got the perfect like the Sound of the Police is Godfather and J Deller's The Police as good Fellas than perfect. All Right, I'm next. You got looking to the eyes of the Ship. We should be on the p I think this one might be a unique long hip hop songs for the perspective perspective, Yeah, I mean

definitely for now. I think I have heard some other songs where people were rapping from the perspective of the cop but this is definitely a standout one of the crop,

that's for sure. It gets so personal. Wake up in the morning, kiss my wife, goodbye, hug my kids, telling my love and mom out hit the ride, like kind of like it's a little uncomfortable, I think, given the current discourse of like you know, like be within the labor movement or trying to kick cops out, and like the violence that we see on social media and the news, um and then the like a thin blue line people want to bring up like oh, they have a family

and they not kids. But like it's really hard to put yourself actually into that mind frame of like someone that could perpetrate such just ability. Yeah, it makes it it's more nuanced picture of the situation. Yeah, and that's what makes to disconnect so much harder to swallow when you're like, yeah, exactly, you have a family, you have children, You understand how how broken you would be to lose someone like this, Like you understand, don't you understand? Like

you know what I'm saying. So it's like so then you have to walk away and go okay. So my only conclusion is you don't see us as human, you know what I mean, Like, because you just told me you've got a family and children, so you understand. Yeah. And one of the things I learned, like in working in local government. You know, when I came into it with this um mindset that like, okay, it's me versus the enemy, which is all these conservatives that are perpetrating

off its white supremacy. And then you get there and they're like, oh, I like your blazer, what's up. I'm like, hey, would you like to get a beer in this afternoon?

And like really nice, cordial and polite people who seem very normal, And it's very disarming for disarming, and you canna forget the mission because people are like normal in terms out and it makes it harder to focus on the fact that like not just how you convey yourself in terms of niceties, but actually what you do with like the policies that you either create or you operate under, how you enact, like your you know, form part of

systems that are oppressive. Like that's the judge of character, not not whether or not like oh, they kissed his wife goodbye and like you know, wave to the focus the doughnut shop on his way to work. It's it's this other things like that have to be disaggregated from the civility that like creates this sheen over the whole, the whole scheme of operation sometimes and it makes it harder to like, uh effectively critique how are these things? Uh?

How do they say it's operate? How these things work? Well? Thinking like another? You know one of the I guess in citious, sinister lee ingenious things about Like the way some of these like racist systems work is they're kind of established to the point where they don't necessarily need like bad actors in order to operate, you know what I mean. Like it can like systemic racism can operate

without individual racism being present, you know what I mean. Right, So for example, it's like it's like the scheme the motives operandi is like to over police a black community. You're not like going out and specific like in all the people you encounter in that neighborhood are black. You're not like, oh, I'm not specifically targeting anyone. It's just everyone I you know, have countered that day and that

was doing your crime. I brought them down. But the system has already put you in that scenario where if you operate according to the standard procedure, the outcomes are going to be racist, no matter if you're buying kids ice cream, cones or like posing for selfie is what the b ball court with whoever inherently with the way that the policy operates to put you in that area

the first place, is inherently a tool of oppression. Is the biggest, The biggest takeaway I think of our series of the Behind the Police series is that like the racism has taken on a life of its own. And I think that that's the part that's hard when it's hard to communicate when we like, listen, I'm not talking about your uncle Dave, who's a great guy. Like that's not who I'm talking about, you know, And they're like, well, who are you talking about? It's like, no, okay, how

do you like? I don't. I just don't understand why it's a system, you know what I'm saying. And and and that is the most insidious part, like you said, is that like the the system of policing, no matter how many good apples you put into it for you to survive in this system, you can't stay a good

apple because because the system is bad, you know. Um and yeah, yeah, So I think that that's like so important for the discussion and the discourse around like abolition and um, you know, uh, just criminal justice as a whole, like we obviously we focus specifically on policing, but the whole thing to where it's like, yeah, there's probably you're you're right, there's a ton of good cops, there's a ton of good judges. You're missing the point though, you know,

and that's and it's it. But it's it's like if you are like function in the world, like you said, of just niceties and that there is a which I found from just understanding like from a sociological perspective, you know, where the conservative movement in America is trying to get to, or at least in the West, you know, conservative liberal their transitive verbs. So it's like, you know, you're conserving

what like liberal liberal, you know, liberating from what. So I'm not going to say all conservatives are this, but the direction that the conservative movement in America is going to is at the end of the day, they have an ideal as to how society should look and work. They just happen to believe that they're the arbiters of it um whether they know what or whether they know

they believe it or not. They almost feel like it's like I think that's why I like a lot of like Western like evangelical sort of like you know, or just just religions specifically, would end up leaning conservative because they believe there's a transcendent ideal of how society is supposed to look. You know what I'm saying, it's transcendent. It's like, it's not us, it's it's above us. That's

the way we're supposed to be. So we should all act like we're supposed to act, you know what I mean, And we're this is the natural order of things, you know, that was given to us by some sort of transcendent divine if you want to call it God where you wanna call it. At the end of the day, Conservatism, at least here believes that there is somewhere out there the answer and we need to like and they have figured it out. It's like they try to tie it

towards the natural order and stuff. So going back to the song, I didn't want to we don't want to take us too far off at tangent. But um, I think that this this song definitely the Cyper's Hill Joint. It definitely has like of aura of um like fantasy and entertainment like purposes towards it. Doesn't seem as serious

to me as like, for example, have we did. We had a song on a few weeks ago by a dude named Marlon Kraft, a song called Gangship, and he kind of does a similar thing where the first verse he dedicates it solely from the perspective of the cop and it's very it's much more serious. It doesn't get like training day with it, where it's like seems like you're listening to like a Jerry Bruckheimer, you know, crime thriller or something like that, which I feel the cypers

Hill song kind of does the Cyper I don't. I don't. I don't really take away from the Cyper's Hill song that it's like a serious like political statement of a song, like a socio political message at all. It's just like it's a creative writing exercise and inhabiting a different perspective sounds like it sounds like, yeah, he just sounds like he was just picking a character to like to do. It could have easily been a sanitation worker or like

a shoe mender or something like a serial killer or something. Yeah. In terms of like, oh, the shock value of like looking into this different worldview or this different lifestyle for a second. And I think be Real's like tone and his like lyrical ability at the time of this song, like it's hard, it's hard to commute. I don't even think if he was trying to be serious, he wasn't developed as an artist well enough to to communicate that at this moment in his career, you know what I'm saying.

As he got further along, it was just like, oh, like be Real is like we need to cement him in in the cannon, you know what I'm saying. Um, But I think at the time it was it was still just this like Southgate, like you can just kill you the fan that the fan that kind of dan, you know what I mean. It was just this like you know, just this like DJ Muggs just this like four by four you know, just ryan pattern that like he just had. He hadn't developed it yet, you know

what I'm saying. Um, So I I want to give him that to where it's like same thing because I feel the same way. It's like I kind of feel like maybe we're getting there, but like I don't know, I just it feels a little more lighthearted. Yeah, well that's gonna I think that's gonna do it for us today for the music discussion. You know, I wanted to thank you Propaganda for coming through our show. Hey can you tell the people where they can find you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

you can find me at profit Pop. That's all of my socials and and uh it's my website to profit pop dot com. Uh. There's also a little thing we're doing for coffee and black people. Uh it's called which is profit pop gotting backslazed Coffee. Uh you know, off, you only grow at the equator, right, so like, so who liver? So? Uh So we just got a collection of like you know, like by poc, like roasters and shops that like if you you know, I'm obviously I'm

a coffee dude. So like just ways to support like smaller roasters that are like doing the good work. That's what's up. Yeah, Well, thank you so much for coming on today. Pleasure. This is the dopest I said yes off the strength of the name of the pod, I was like, let's go. Yes, I want to be on this well ship. We're starting a little tradition of you know, spitting bars to open up and close out the show. So I think you're gonna be our first guests. Bitter

with us today, Yo, let's get a beat. Let's get this ship popping having me on the show though, yeah we does. But let's be downloads and is and blew this all we knew red rags of badges are the same when it came through, flaming through the gardens, the jungles like where you stay at? You don't look famili you won't play that home me say that? What's that tat? Or you run with that other click right, we've seen

you the other night. Dug and right, and I'm gonna need somebody and the reason you round these parts on set, we got the burners on deck. Are we prayed for his life like lit lunar me. He didn't call the backup. He come, he's far me. Your odds are if you're living not far from the hood. They pulled up in a squad car to your odds. I'm losing cool up and nothing. I'm losing counter of the comics, Jacuzi po bumbling into the sound of the samba thunderclouds. The gun

you got you coughing like what the bear for? You wanted to ground them down in vodka mix, but who could they not under like a puppy chowling on the down park park bitch, let me up, police and take seven seats on the park bench. Look me in the eyes. What you know about darkness? Please call the police and Darren send the squad of cars now while they sit in up. I got a bust of Freestyle forty five on TV talking like you see now, I'm gonna go and cure the world's like I was in green Out.

I'm not a politician. I'm not a fucking actor. Whatever you think of asking, I do it for the rappers. I don't got a post piston and I don't have a master, So why don't be singing dancing the coolners for the crackers. I hope that you don't get a fit. Let's take it to just pretend. If you touch my microphone the hello through my little friend, I really know that it's just too crazy. Waiting on reparations like fun you pay me dope Yo. My name is Dope Knife Franca,

and we are waiting on reparations. See you next week, see you next week. Waiting on reparations as a production of iHeart Radio. Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the i heart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.