From Atlanta to Lekki

secured the weird. Fuck the proud boys, but I'm down with the married men. Take from the rich, give to the poor. Dope knife reasons they can't keep licking in stores, sending races down in Georgia. Were prepare for more, but these hands are like roller. You can get it indoors. Nigga. Fox News is lost in these lawsuits is nonsense. They want sue Philly, but we trust in the process. Check

the popular vote, we gain a separation. What's your Biden, though, we're waiting our reparation in the mean times and then an email to the attorney Blue Georgia. Yeah, we turning doing it. The whole world be burning if we don't pass a green new deal real soon. Yeah, we're gonna have to go get the nerdy scientists to tell us because everybody else be denying this, and toe Biden is about to pass it, but it's like it because we

elected him in hot fashion. Up, I have to go and bite the bashes because they're trying to do what cool. Motherfucker's no, blue, No, I don't acknowledge it. I'm about to try to abolish. I like to call it is. My name is Dope night. We are waiting, ladies and gentlemen. Down goes down, Down goes five? Is getting back up? Is getting back up? I don't know. Okay, tell well. I mean, you know, it's definitely old news for y'all

at this point. It is Monday, November nine for us as we record this, and I have no doubt that by Thursday, when you guys hear this, that there's gonna be like all new revealing house of horrors with the situation. But for now, you know, motherfucker's in the street and we're going to be in a little celebratory mood right now. And plus we're in motherfucking Georgia, and so this is a whole another level of big deal for people down here,

no doubt. Well, just to recap u over the weekend, the election was called and Joe Biden is now your new w w E champion or President of the United States. Speaking w w E. I'm gonna keep harping on Georgia this whole show because we came out with the steel chair in the dead of night. I would awake at like five o'clock in the morning the last hour watching it when it flipped chair and it crept, and then when it flipped over and it was like six votes up.

Like I was exhausted and utterly delirious because I got maybe like fourteen hours of sleep last week. But now I was just kicking it in the crib with like election coverage on, you know, the laptop, and to be honest with you, I kind of checked out, Like I felt so damn wound up by the whole thing intense that like when the day finally got there and the votes started coming in, I was like, yeo, I'm just turning it off. I had a bad feeling anyway, So it's like I'm just gonna turn this ship off. And

just see what happens in the morning. But your experience was completely different, right, because didn't you go to an election watching party or something. I was, so I went up to Gainesville to watch the results come in with my boyfriend Paul, who was a campaign manager for candidate for Congress up in with Georgia. But I am dead and Pandy running in a really tough district um but you know, celebrating all all kinds of small victories that are one with regards to turn out, with regards to

other candidates that were running. So my question I have for you is, like, it's one thing to see all of your like live or progressive friends like, oh yeah, Georgia turned blue, Georgia turn blue. But for somebody like you who's actually you know, I mean whatever, would it be unfair? Would it be like a mischaracterization for me to say you're somebody who's kind of on the inside track of that effort to get Georgia to turn blue

within this last like two years, right? I mean definitely with regards to just getting people engaged inside outside as presidential elections. Yeah, I mean, this is a beautiful moment. It feels like it was never gonna come like the odds were so impossible. And as someone that's like on the left left, you know, I recognize that this is that you know, we don't choose incrementalism, but we accept

it when we have to. And so we have put in so much work to at least open the door to a world where the things we won't were possible, I think, and to to kind of just like step back and think about all of the efforts that have been put in all across the state in these tiny rural towns where you know, these people feel like they are the only ones, in places like Athens, where we're surrounded on all side it's by very conservative areas and

just like constantly fighting, you know, with jerry mandering and whatnot, just to have our voices heard. That like the to like breathe in like the threat the sweet smell of like what collective action, Like what those fruits of that labor smell like? Like uh it was, you know, Like I I remain like a realist and like recognize that it's going to require a lot of grit and tenacity and persistence and frustration for us to continue to fight

to achieve them. While you want to see I believe that, you know, through the selection, we've gained the enemy that we want um. But you know, I drove down to Atlanta on Saturday and we got the got the notice that the election have been called in the car and we showed about a rally that was supposed to be like count every vote being put on by like Sister Song and like a lot of like progressive said of

lefty like Bipop organizations in Atlanta. But to show up and then like the mood was so different, like everyone turned on a dime and immediately was about, all right, how are we getting medicare for all? You know? Sunrise Moving was there and they're talking about a Green New Deal and we're still in Georgia under Brian Kemp, you know, and a Republican control legislator having to deal with a tax on women's bodily autonomy and like continuing that fight.

But the fact that people were able, but like the fact that people were so tired. Everyone was honking. They're playing like nuck if you buck and the return of the Jedi and ship like if you're watching the news, just like each each city in the world that they were showing a clip of of everybody was just in the streets celebrating, like they defeated the empire and ship.

Yeah and I guess. And so Saturday was really meaningful to me to be there in the park with all of those organizers because it felt like proto organizing energy. It wasn't like like a victory had been one. It was that we were excited and energized for what is next. Um Like we were getting like like it was like a like a like a like a pre a pregame at the at the at the crib. What you're doing shots with all your homies on the couch of doing power power before you go out for the real you know,

the go out into the sub thirty degrees. All is pretty much kind of like a detour. You know. It's like a like the ship is obviously not over, and it's like whatever whatever, whatever thing that people were scared of encountering with the second Trump presidency. It's like, you know, we're all kind of on the hangover still of being happy that he's going to be going away, but we're only taking a detour. You know, this is a joke because it doesn't seem like there's gonna be a coup well,

I mean, it's not losing. It's only Monday. Let's give these niggas sometime. Let's let's meet here next week and let's talk about what's going on with that, because I don't know. The last thing that I heard today before we started recording was the person whose job it is to sign off on the transition is refusing to sign off on the transition. They've got mad lawsuits out everywhere. They're trying to prevent states from certifying the vote. So

I mean, like I said, this is Monday. The ship was just confirmed, the Biden one yesterday, and the fun he starts already, So I don't know what the hell is gonna be like on Thursday. We'll see how that plays out. Before we think we're out of the woods yet on Trump and his little coup thing, because I mean,

you know, Lindsey Graham ted cruise ship. There's a long list of like people who have been in Congress for twenty thirty years that should know better better on TV talking about Trump never lost, so I have I don't know,

We'll see, we'll see. There's the problem with distractions like that because we have to put all hands on deck and turn our attention to the elections coming up in Georgia, right right, and so you know, it's been an exciting kind for Georgia's could remain kind of like an annoyingly exciting time for Georgia for the next TIWO weeks and that like every national organization, all eyes were on Georgia pouring in money and people, and Andrew Yane announced that

he's moving here, and like all these Facebook groups have popped up and people like how do I donate, and like I'm gonna send you a thousands buttons and I'm just imagining our mailbox is just stuffed just to the brim with like mailers and the ads. But the struggle never ends ends, so on the cited, like, I feel very energized to Like I wasn't excited about Warnock or

us off before. They're pretty milk toast neo liberals. It's with the exception, I mean, like we're not kind of came around like a federal job guarantee you, which is

like pretty legit one of my favorite policies. Um, but now I'm like, oh shit, if we at least like have the Senate like Medicare for all and like a federal job guarantee are a lot more possible if we have the Senate that if we don't, so I might as well fucking put everything I got into the next six weeks of trying to elect these motherfucker's just to create the world in which the world I want is a little more possible, no doubt. Well that was a long ass intro, but we got a real dope show

for you all today. We're gonna talk a little bit more about the elections coming up in Georgia. But later on we're gonna be talking with the hosts of nprs new podcast, Louder than a Riot, some really cool people, and it's a really cool show you guys are gonna dig on. We're also gonna go over some new music real event to our times for the music review. That's gonna be cool. We've got some stuff dealing with the NSAR situation in Nigeria. We've got Jim Jones and his

election theme track. We're also going to dive a little bit into the case surrounding newly released rapper Drake EO and his court situation. So stick around at some dope stuff. We'll be back in a second. And so with all

eyes on Georgia. We want to get some shout outs to organize this across the state who have been doing work on the ground for years to bring us to this moment and who will continue to push us into the future as we you know, not only celebrate this moment and celebrate not only celebrate this moment, also celebrate its potentiality. After I went to the rally on Saturday, I met up with some latinage organizers from mostly North Georgia. Um, who were you know, celebrating, but also we took a moment.

It was really weird, but like inspiring. The host Maria del Rosario Pelacios, kind of took everyone like paused the gathering to ask everyone, what does the nation? What should the nation thank you for for this moment in Georgia. And everyone went around and just said what, you know, whether they're organized or not, just answered the question, like, you know, what does the nation know you for this moment?

And so I asked. I found really inspiring some of their answers, and so I asked some organizers from across the state answered the same question so that y'all can

give him proper props. And I stopped with local youth activists and daughter a former state House candidate, Mocha Jasmine Johnson Daln White, who gave rowsing speeches about the importance of voting at Black Lives Matter rallies over the summer and a final push land Bass at voter suppression that I get out the vote rally here in Athletes the

Saturday before the election. I believe that the nation should thank any local activists in Georgia for what's happening in the state because we were able to relay a message and information to the citizens when we needed it the most in its upcoming election. To basically put somebody in office stats here for us and the people and be the change that we wanted to see by being a

beacon and just spreading light to all. I spoke with Brendon Buchanan, former charity Metroy Letter Democratic Social America, which is the largest UH chapter of d s A of

the South. The folks in power in the state of Georgia have spent the last twenty years convincing people that change is not possible, whether that's through control of the media, control of elected officials, control of the suburbs, or control of that goofy racist flag that we've had going up until like two thousand and three, and we've been working just as hard the same work you're doing to convince

people that change matters and is really possible. You don't have to thank us for what's happening in Georgia, but you're welcome. But yeah, I mean to kind of unpack some more takes that have been circulating around the election.

The NYT reports that nine of the ten voters sided the summer uprising as a motivating factor the decision to vote, three forces of calling it a major motivating factor, and a fifth of voter saying it was the single most motivating factor for the decision to participate in the election. Among those who sided the protests as a factor, of them voted for Joe Biden voted for Donald Trump. According to their survey, it seems about what you would expect.

I know a lot of people anecdotally who weren't really that engaged or interested in the election, just from the typical thing that you would expect, like Democrats and Republicans are the same, and what really is the biggest difference between Trump and Democrats and so on and so forth. But after the clearing out of Lafaye Square. Yeah. Yeah, I have a lot of friends who were like on that day, were like, oh, you mean it's like really real.

It's like, yeah, we've been saying for the last three years. And I feel like for people that are like not super politically engaged, whose primary Civics education came from high school, like this is how a bill becomes a law, go vote, like who maybe are inconsistent or non voters, Like it makes sense that in the summer of sudden, a sudden like quasar of goddamn political activity, people's first day they're

gonna do is get vote. More so than like writing to their legislator or organizing direct action or mutual aid.

The thing that they has been inculcated in their minds since they were like they were instant infancy was voting, and so yeah, it makes sense that like people's media reaction would be to make sure they participate in the election, even if honestly with regards to regards to their visionary goals, the visionary demands that emerged from the uprising, like really like we don't fares well either way, but I mean, yeah, I think we should look at it as you know,

obviously everything has to be with proper perspective, But I don't think that there's anything wrong with people looking at it as like a victory and a sign of progress. This easily could have flipped on the other It could have that, could have this, this, everything right here could have been reversed for the negative. You know what I'm saying.

It could have been fifty three of them voted for Trump because of the protests and then the's and then in the NYT piece they do talk They did talk to voters who said they saw the looting and the vandalism, and they got scared, and they wanted a law and order president, and they went out and voted. They decided that, oh, I gotta as all offense, but I'm gonna go out and vote for Trump. So well, let's here's my final thoughts.

Unlike the Trump supporters. Look, I know that there's seventy million of them, you know what I'm saying, seventy million people who are willing to go and vote. And I know that with all of the craziness that the Trump administration was throwing at the wall, that it's hard to keep track of everything. I personally am not one of those people that like loses track of ship. One day, one morning in July, the President just woke up out of the blue and tweeted out white power. Seventy million

people are cool with that, completely cool with that. So just keep that, you know, I mean everyone, just keep that in proper perspective. With all of this like unity talk and oh we gotta like repudiation of fascism, it's like fucking barely, it's barely. It's barely, way too close for comfort. Are you fucking kidding me? But yeah, let's just keep all of that in mind. That just that there are seventy million people who accept Donald Trump and

everything about Donald Trump. So you the listener out there, whatever thing that you take away from this past four years about the Trump presidency that you personally that affected you, that you think was especially bad, seventy million of your fellow countrymen and women have zero problem with it, whatsoever, whatever that issue would be. I just want to keep that in mind because obviously we know that the the Centrists,

they're gonna start coming out of the woodwork. They've already started coming out of the woodworks with demands of bipartisanship and working together in YadA YadA, YadA. Oh it's never These things are never brought up when the Republicans win. Like, I do not remember any news source that was like, hey, you guys know that some of these policies that you're the most ulim band in this wall, Like, you guys do know that these are like fringe right wing like ideas.

Are y'all really just gonna poist them on the American public without like you know, trying to like find any sort of like middle ground. No one's what was asking Republicans about any sort of middle ground. The Democrats win and the next day they're like, all right, so you guys gotta work together, right, we gotta reject throughout the lasts, you know, I mean starting to peel their masks off now and show the goblins that we hated for a

decade before Trump. Yeah, it's it's very frustrated speaking of we speaking of interpretations of where we go from here. Um, there's so there is a lot of talk about like do we sees on our new power to push things left? Because honestly, funk the niggas like we can do whatever we want now, you know, we're more Republicans voted for Trump this time the last time, so fuck them and we don't need them. We didn't. They didn't vote for Joe Biden. We don't, you know, did cater to them.

That's the Lincoln Project you can thank for that votes for Trump. Yeah, good job, great jobs, five million more votes. And John Casey didn't give us Ohio nailed nailed it. Boys. You know, we got Minnesota, thanks Alan Alont Michigan, Thanks

Rush Lead. I'm just saying, so, y'all thrown out the radical lab Meanwhile, Democrats who lost re election failed, you know, if the most part failed to support policies like Medicare for all, and the ones that did actually ended up winning there, Yeah, and putting in swing state and swing districts like fucking Katie Porter. So I mean, well, I'm sure there's more to it than that. Results are results, you know. But there's gonna be plenty of time for

these debates in the weeks and months to come. But enough of that for now. Let's get into the fun ship. Let's bring on our guest today. Today, we're gonna be talking with two extraordinarily dope people individually. They are a reporter and editor for NPR Music Sydney Madden and NPR Music's hip hop writer Rodney Carmichael. And if this was like a live studio audiences where I'd say, makes some

noise for riding everybody, can you tell this performing? Yeah, I have you seasoned music journalists, but together they are hosts one of the freshest podcasts out right now. NPR is Louder than a Riot. So, Sydney, Rodney from the job, can you explain to our listeners what the show was about and what they can expect to hear when they dive in. Man, you want to take that? Yeah? Absolutely, Well, first of all, thanks for having us, y'all. I've been binging the show, so now I'm a fan. I'm a

new fan. So um, Louder than Riot is all about the collision of rhyme and punishment in America. So what we do on this show is really traced the historical and socio political timelines and intersecting timelines of hip hop and mass incarceration from the nineties till now. And we do it through real life cases of rappers and hip hop luminaries that have been touched by the criminal justice system.

I was really curious and how you set it on this particular intersection between hip hop and politics for the focus of your show, since in our show we talked about many ways that policy touches the lives of the of those in the hip hop community. So why mass incarceration particularly, I mean, I think we got our first

signals from the music, you know what I mean. I think if you if you you grew up in the in the eighties and but especially in the nineties, in terms of being a hip hop fan, if you were listening, if you were listening to the music at the time,

you know, they were making these connections. They were they were critiquing the the prison industrial complex on a ground level plane spoken, you know, the way we talked each other, and then you know, in ways that I'm sure the academics were as well, and then the activists and whatnot. But if you were just a straight up hip hop head, it was information. And you know, I think that that that sense that there was just you know, connection or

you know, was it conspiratorial. It's just an idea that's always kind of resonated. You know, a lot of conspiratorial ideas resonating our community because you know, honestly, a lot of conspiratorial things have happened to our community that we were never told about, and we had to learn about ourselves and connect the doubts ourselves. Yeah. So so I

think that's that's that's where the connection came from. I mean, you know, I think you know, Source magazine back in the early two thousand's when they did them behind Bars issues a few years running. You know, that was a really huge thing. I remember at the time, um and and and just I open it in terms of like, oh, there, there, there's there's a connection here, or at least a way to explore the criminal justice system in a way it's impacting us through the thing that we love so much,

hip hop. You know. So is there any is there any like one particular case that kind of sparked off the interest to go in this direction. I don't think it was. I think it was the fact that there

were so many cases, you know. I mean the idea is it's really about trying to expose the fact that this this you know, mass and conceration and over policing impacts us so much, you know, and it's like, how can you talk about this issue in a way that isn't just academic isn't just statistics in a way where you can tell stories that will pull people in and and and and really you know, get you to think

about these issues. So hip hop really is almost just the vehicle to look at, you know, how how this stuff is has been affecting us for for so many decades because you know, hip hop is popular, you know what I mean, it's popular with us, it's popular with people outside of our communities obviously, and a lot of people who claim they love black people don't necessarily seem to always understand the way, you know, issues and systemic racism and whatnot how to impact them black people specifically,

and so it's like, let's let's use this thing that you love, um, you know, whether you're black or white or whatever, and and and expose these broader realities. Um. So, yeah, it was just the mass amount of cases that that made it seem so you know, it's like like so

inevitable together. And that's the through line that we really, um saw because when a lot of these cases started popping up, whether it be uh the meat mail pro violation or twenty one Savage getting getting yoked up at the Super Bowl for citizenship violations stuff like that to too. To an untrained eye and untrained ear, it can all seem like I selated incidents, and it can all seem like, oh, well,

rappers get in trouble, that's what they do. They sell this type of criminal outlaw lifestyle, so when they live it, you know that's what happens. But these these cases don't happen in a vacuum. In these cases have so much overshadowing and overarching systemic themes, systemic racism, themes throughout that

we really wanted to drive that connection home. And it now seems like obviously it's been a topic that's evergreen and pertinent, but now it seemed a perfect time to do it because as hip hop is the most consumed, most stream genre in America, and America incarcerates more of its um population than any other country per capita in the in the world. So it's like these superlatives, they

don't live separate from each other. They're all intertwined because the art and the culture, it's a it's a mirror to what what is happening in society. So that's why we really wanted to draw it out. So how did y'all like linked to to do this podcast. Oh that was the easy part, I means part. Yeah, we started at the same year. Uh. And at NPR Music, I

started at the beginning of the years. It came towards the end of the year, and you know, we we were we were I think we were really kind of hungry to create a platform within NPR Music, uh for hip hop. You know, obviously there's the Tiny Desk, which um, you know, we we both contribute to uh as well and has has in it in itself in a lot of ways become a platform for for hip hop and

R and B in black music. Um. And there was you know, the the early hip hop podcast microphone Check, which was one of the first things that really made me start checking for NPR Music before I worked there. Um, but you know, uh, Franny Kelly who started that podcast, she had moved on at that point, so it just wasn't a platform. It just felt like, uh, you know, hip hop, like like we already said, you know, hip hop is the most popular genre, and you know it's

it's the two it's the two teens whatever. You know what I'm saying, it's it's crazy that we don't have a bigger platform here to talk about hip hop, and so I think, you know, we we were already in brainstorm mode and and you know it kind of we're going to create something whether it was right, and it was. We really saw openly for ourselves with it because we were both coming to it as hip hop journalists music journalists who were at the time like newes to MPR.

But you know, NPR has it carries such a name of high caliber journalism. So we really saw that crossroads of like cultural confluence that we bring naturally to it because we're of the culture and we cover the culture and we are the culture. And then and then marrying that with real in depth research, reporting, editing, producing, um, soundscaping that NPR is known for. So we were like, there's nothing else out there like this, So let's do it.

Fellos Firs and name mother than a rioting from oh Man. Well that was first. We went through a lot of names we had. We won't we won't mention any of the we had. Um, some just weren't right, others were

not available. UM. But you know, in the midst of this, you know, we've been we've been working on this, this podcast for over two years and so in the midst of us kind of finally coming down, ramping up to getting ready to release it, all of this stuff everything of starts to happen, right, and so you know, it felt so um, it just resonated with with with with everything that we were talking about, you know, and it felt like, you know, let's try to pick a name

that not only uh, speaks to this moment, but speaks to the history that hip hop has in terms of, you know, being a voice for the voiceless and speaking truth to power and you know mL case you know famous quote a riot is the language of the unheard. It just kept resonating, and it's just like, you know, what, what what better genre of music is there in hip hop when it comes to being a soundtrack for the unheard?

You know? So um, just the idea that hip hop has been rapping and raging about this stuff for forty plus years and for whatever reason, America on on on some level, you know, whether it was short lived or not seemed to to hear. Uh. You know what we've been um, you know, crying about and pointing out for for forty plus years, uh, four hundred years. You know this this summer it's just we we just wanted to kind of land on something that connected all of that together.

And you know, you know if if if if share so if. That's just kind of how we landed on. And it's really a lot about just to add on to that, Rodney is being humble, but he came up with that great epiphany in like the eleventh and a half hour because they were like, y'all, all these names are taken. We need a name. Ronney's like, I got it.

But just to add on to that, there's so much um um negative and derogatory connotations to the word riot, and riot has become something of of a racialized term and a politicized term, and we really wanted to um circumvent that and subvert that and and put it in front of your face and be like, nah, this is the deeper context that you need to look into and you need to listen to. And and that's exactly what our show does. Our show is a lot about context.

It's a lot about historical um um backdrops. It's a lot about um intergenerational trauma, community settings, disparities that informed the music that that turned UH young artists into into scapegoats and into martyrs for the culture and for and for the law. So so casually, uh, and so that's what we really wanted to do. We wanted to signal in the name that this is going to be more than what you just think it is off jump. So that's why we we went with something and we actually

made ours. It's a new phrase, and it helps that you know, now when you say louder than the riot, all you can think of is this, right, So it's easy for search terms too, So shout out to Rodney. So, like back in the early two thousand tens, like I personally, it's like before falling down the YouTube rabbit hole had like a term to it that was like diagnosed. I was kind of like susceptible to some online just conspiracy theories and stuff like that in the early days of

that sort of thing. And I remember one of the early things that I remember stumbling across around them was the letter, the infamous letter that you guys deal with in the first episode of the show. So I wanted you guys to first explain to our listeners just the story behind the letter, and then why did y'all choose to have that be like the jumping point for the first episode, the stars like what you guys dealt with? Okay.

So so the letter, the letter in question, um, uh, which I guess doesn't really have a name to it, but but we kind of named the hip the hip hop Willie Lynch Letter. Um. I've heard other people call it. To Dr Regina Bradley, who we we interview in the

DJ Drama episode, she she calls it that as well. Um, the letter, the letter you know, it reports that there was a meeting that to place in the early nineties that brought together music executives and private prison industry executives and proposed this, uh you know, this this this meeting or this connection between the two in which they would get rich together if the music executives began signing, marketing

and promoting hip hop. That uh you know played into a lot of the criminal stereotypes and and therefore with you know, help them feel their private prisons. Uh. That was that was the idea, right and um, I think in a lot of ways, the idea resonated because you know, like so many people that we interviewed talked about it kind of you know, fits with the evolution of hip hop.

That was happening that began to happen, you know, early nineties, as as as gangster rap, you know, explode it and really became the most popular form or subgenre of hip hop. You know, you saw this transformation from you know, like the pro black afrocentric era kind of East Coast driven, although there were a lot of West Coast artists a shot after, artists like Paris and whatnot, that we're on that same tip um. I mean it with every everybody, the whole. I think hip hop at at large what

was on that tip um. But you know, you definitely saw a transformation, and I think there was market forces that at play behind some of that, but it was also cultural things happening behind some of that um and and so I think the reason why we wanted to jump it off like that is is because I don't know, I don't think we could have avoided it. Honestly, if you're looking at the intersection, but the potential intersection between

mass and conceration and hip hop. You know, even if even if the thescy theory is letter is a is a is a hoax or just a theory, it does so much of the legwork in terms of getting you to think about the potential connections between the two or why we as as as black folks, as hip hop fans would be so anxious about the potential connection, you know, and and what what is what is driving this connection and and why are things changing in ways that seem

to be beyond our control? Um? I mean you just look at like so many forms of of of of of black art. I mean, think about like the so called black exploitation error and film. You know, it starts off as an error where all of a sudden, you know, black directors and creators start getting access to to make bigger budget films through the Hollywood system, and you know, the the next thing, you know, you know, no matter what you think of the Black itation era, which I

love a lot of that stuff. Um, I kind of like grew up on that stuff watching this stuff on VHS, I'm saying, uh, but you know, in a lot of ways, it has the same trajectory that you see hip hop having.

You know, it's like it's a cyclical thing and sometimes repeats, and I think it's just it's the job of capitalism in some ways to you know, uh, market and exploit and and kind of reduce things to you know, the lowest common denominator in some ways, because for whatever reason, that seems to be the way that the system can can more easily market you know, uh, you know, like the black experience or something the outside of black folks,

you know what I mean. So it's just like, let's let's let's figure out a way that I can't imagine how we would have explained why we were, you know, exploring this connection if we didn't have that conspiracy theory letter to to fall back on, so to speak. Word, I heard you mentioned something about you know, market forces in Sydney. Earlier you talked about the community backdrops that

sort of influenced the pervasiveness. And you know, the recent in recent decades, the explosion of the prison industrial complex and as um conversations around you know, defunding and abolishing the police and like abolishal prisons have become mainstreamed. Over the summer, a lot of people are thinking thinking towards the other factors of public safety and our communities with regards to access to healthcare, access to education, other sorts

of preventative measures that make our community safer. And I was wondering how much those other sorts of UM influencing UM pieces of public policy UM make their way into your discussions of the how under investment UM spurs the prison industrial complex, if at all in the show. Yeah, that's a great question. And we are about halfway through our season right now, and a lot of it has been UM dealing with cases that have to do with

criminalizing hip hop culture at large. Where that that be with UM DJ dramas, mixtape raid or or lyrics on trial, which is a pervasive tactic by prosecution, and that's what

the case of Mac Phipps UM. On other episodes that are coming up this season, you're gonna hear about Bobby schmurder and cycles of structural, cultural, and direct violence in underserved and and under UM underfunded neighborhoods, Black and brown neighborhoods specifically, You're going to hear about police tactics and the lineage of profiling and and parole pitfalls in South central l A. Which is the place where Nipsey Hustle

called home. And then UM you're gonna hear about specific prison conditions and how they are meant to psychologically and physically break you as a human being. Uh, you're gonna hear about uh and then sorry, and then we bring

it home. We're talking about where we are at this present moment and how you said a lot of conversations being mainstream this summer about defunding the police, abolishing the prison industrial complex, and what and what reality will look like on the other side of that when we don't live in a world of of crime and punishment and

guilt and innocence as binaries. So with every hip hop story, we we've in these these lessons and these and these updates on on certain jurisdictions, certain protocols, certain laws, but we do it in a way that's applicable to somebody who just chilling on the block, who would see like, this is how it relates to me type of thing like not like, it doesn't have to be um you know, it doesn't have to be something that is so above your head and so um foreign to you that you

think it doesn't apply to you. And one thing I love about y'all's last episode, which you're talking about the power of voting and hip hop's influence when it comes to getting the vote out and stuff. I think it was I think it was dope knife who said it. But you know, we're talking about having the power to focusing on the power that you have to control what

you do, which is your human body. If you are able body, do have the power to protest, and you have the power to go out and get and get in line and vote in person and until you have until you do not have breath in your body, Like that's what you can do, you know, like you want to, you want to have applicable choices of what you can do.

And I think a big aim of this show is about is about the power of disseminating the narrative, like informing the narrative um um, aligning the narrative, and sharing the narrative with people who it's very much about, but they don't really get to hear it themselves, and they don't get to hear it in in the way that

they talk to each other. And I think that's something that we always carry with us whenever we're whenever we're whenever we're diving deep into the historical laws of when lyrics on child are being used, or when rego laws are being allowed to criminalize the mixtape, or when the power of the prosecutor pushes someone who's eighteen years old into a plea deal without his lawyer. President things like that. We're up. Okay, So what is everybody listening to? Laid

on me? What? What's everybody bumping right now? Oh? Man, yo, I gotta tell y'all. I have not told you, have not told anybody about this because it's it's not out here. It doesn't come out next week about He's always like he's out music. I don't even get music early like that. But uh, the first person for for Goodye Mov's new album snent it to me the day of the election. I think was the day that I listened to it too. That so like two days ago or whatever. Man, I'm

a good mother fan. Especially first I heard a new song and had like a video. I don't know if that was that the one that you're talking about, but yeah, that's that's that's that's on the album though, is like, this is definitely their best album since uh since Still Standing, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's executive produced by Organized Noise, Cool Joe is on Fire, Gift is on Fire. See Low sounded like see Low

from the hood again. Oh my god, I feel like all of my things like Dwarf and comparison to that. Damn you're talking about legends, Okay, and I only listened to it once, so you know, I might just be super hyper. But don't try to backtrack now, dare you? Okay? Anyway, my favorites are things that are already out that people

have already been debating and dissecting. But with this, we've really been, you know, diving deep into these stories that are you know, like headlines from a couple of years ago that are like we're trying to tell the story behind the story. So I haven't been super deep in like the Rollout, but I'll say Polo g dropped one of the best projects this year to me, um uh gritty, heartfelt, soul full, um real um Spillage Village. I'm very I'm

keeping my eye on them. I'm very much keeping my eye on them because they already have like so many of my favorite artists separately, and now I feel like it's like, I don't know if I'm going to over overhype it. I don't want to say the Avengers, but it's like like I feel like they're really coming together and like all the rings are being put to I don't know, uh yeah, um who else? Who else? And always I mean I just have I just have favorites that I always go back to, like like Kendrick no name,

um out with something new. I don't know you ever heard? I heard heard Kendrick's next one is going to have kind of like a rock theme to it. Really, that's what That's what I heard, So okay stuff what I mean? I mean he was leaning a little bit into more into more, like into more percussion and gets hard than usual on damn right yeah yeah, but I mean like the yeah, the track that he had with Bono, and like if if he kind of takes that queue and just goes off with like if you had a whole

album that was nothing but those songs, right yeah? Okay, Nickas needs to just stop wrapp him yea yeah? Alright, Well, where can we find your podcast? Where should people tune in to listen? And when? Yeah? Yeah, Louder Than a Riot drops every Thursday in your phees twelve and one Eastern. Check for it, subscribe and stay ready. You can find out on Apple podcast, Bodify or wherever you find your podcast and if you wanna, um, if you want a hollyback and tap in and tweet at us. We're at

Louder than the Riot where that what's up? Thank you guys for talking with us. Yeah, I would be surprised how many black people who do not talk to you about this podcast. So it was great. Well, please spread the word about waiting our reparations. Alright, music discussion time. We're gonna be talking about some contemporary tracks today, some new things and their relevancy to the ongoing political discourse

of the day. So what do we got first, Marai? So, jim Jones is back a little bit talking about the election last week with his new track actually titled election. Let's give it a lesson real quickers you want to reapproaching the next election, trying to coach you up? Stuck down, it's just deception. This is one of those I mean, I think it's cool. I always hey, I am advocate of old Nick is still doing it. That's like, like, I love I love seeing that ship and it's dope

to see Jimmy back and forth. But this definitely kind of comes across as Jimmy had a new track that was out and he wanted to put it out around the time of the election, so he named it Election Day. There was like two bars at the beginning of that that had anything to do with the election, and the rest of it was just you know, the capo the capo.

I don't really think this is like Jim Jones's statement on the election him in particular, I've heard him speak about the election more in like actual interviews than he mentioned in the song. Yeah. I mean, I was interviewed but Magazine recently and they asked me about um not like whether or not are an artists try to raise awareness about issues for economic reasons try to capitalize off of like a cultural zee guys. And my response was that, like,

I don't. I feel like, maybe I'm naive and maybe I like to believe the best in people, but I feel like what comes off what comes across as an attempt to like hijack a cultural moment, like titling a song election and then mostly talking about your jewels and stuff is really just like a lack of something really interesting to say. I mean, there's a problem. That's the

widespre problem. We had an episode about hip hop artists and their duty to participate in the discourse around social movements when it's like, frankly, if you don't have you to say, that's okay. Don't position yourself as someone with a very nuance to take if you don't, because you're taking away air. You're you know, in uh, you know, an ecosystem. There's a lot of people who are art organizing on the ground who need to be heard, and so it's fine if you don't have any to say.

I don't think, um, I agree with you on that that that is a thing. I'm not sure that that's what is going on. Like, I think this is more akin to uh. I mean, rappers do stuff like this now, where like they'll name a song after a celebrity or an athlete and it has nothing to do with the song is about, but you know it gets the song traction on social media because it's named after someone famous, or it's named after something that's going on. I think

this is similar to that. You you look in a feed of something and you see, oh, Jim Jones has a new track called Election Day, and you know, some people might listen to it with no expectations at all, but you know a good amount of people are gonna be like, oh, what does Jim Jones have to say about the election and you would be disappointed with this. But it's a hot song though if you like that,

like off kilter dip set flow it is. It is more aesthetic than it is like yeah, it's it's in a that I more than it's it's a it's an aesthetic style choice. I think you know obviously none of it. We haven't talked to Jim Johnson. We don't know, but it feels more like you know, Okay, there's an election my track yes, please please. And up next we got a track from Nigerian rapper burn a Boy with his song twenty, which was a tribute song for the Lackey massacre,

which we'll discuss in a little bit. Let's check this out to come out playing open your money should not fire. Now to fill you in on a little bit of the Lackey massacre, we gotta fill you in a little bit about the End Stars movement in Nigeria. So SO

Stars is the Special Anti Robbery Squad. It's a special police unit in Nigeria that was originally started in nine and throughout the years that it's been legged with accusations of abuse from rape to extortion, kidnapping, intimidation, murder, even committing acts of organized crime selling drugs and racketeering and

stuff like that. So in two thousand seventeen, twitter campaign was launched with the hashtag and Stars and built off that movement and mass demonstration that followed it, it swelled into an outpour of you know, people calling for Stars

to be disbanded and ended. Now, as the years have gone by, this isn't necessarily the first time that there's been calls to end the Stars, the Starters police unit, and usually when it has gotten to a bit of a crescendo, the government usually says, okay, we will disband it so they can get everyone to calm down, and they end up not just disbanding it. Um this time it does appear to be different, as they have a read that they're going to immediately begin disbanding Stars. That

will remain to be seen. But the amazing thing to see is to to look and see that there's mass demonstration and mass protests going on against police brutality and all the way on the other end of the world kind of coalescing with what we have going on here. It's it's cool to see, perhaps you know, inspired to greater mobilization by seeing what had happened in the United States and internationally around the George Ford uprising over the summer.

I think it also really hearkens back to something as the David talks about in Freedom, is constant struggle about the importance of international solidarity and like a global abolitionist movement because so much of like the person industrial complex, like is transnational, Like the things that like the Israeli defense forces are doing two folks in Palestine, like in the US, we're sending cops over there to learn from them and like bring those tactics back to America to brutalize,

you know, protesters in Ferguson, Missouri thousand and fourteen, and so like there's there's these global flows of like learning how to abuse power and uh and ultimately it's it's just a reminder of how many of our struggles are the same and when we like band together and share tactics, share resources, share information, to share capital both social and like literal like monetary monetary resources with folks that are fighting similar fights in other places, Like you know, we're

trying to deliberate everybody. Unfortunately, last month, the city of Leaky was the site of what is now known as the Leaky massacre. Members of the Nigerian Armed Forces open fire on peaceful and stars protesters in Leaky at the Leaky tollgate and Lego State in Nigeria. Officials have not disclosed the number of casualties originally, but but there was reported to have been at least fifteen people killed in

the incident. In addition, there have been complaints about missing persons, friends and family members, and few have been confirmed to be in the hospital and critical condition a day after the incident. This was on the twenty one of October. The government of Lego State initially denied any loss of life by the gunfire and even the phrasing of that laws of life by gunfire. They denied that the police had murdered people, but later they admitted an interview at

CNN that two persons were killed. Amnesty International stated that at least twelve protesters were killed in what the organization described as extra judicial killing. I mean, I never lived in Nigeria before, so I never experienced oars. But I know when I was living in Cameroon around my teenage years. You know, you start going out and shoot like that.

I definitely have experience with the shake down nature of African police forces for sure, So that's definitely a common thing, like extortion, like getting extorted by the cops over there and stuff like that, and that sort of ship is happening to kids whose parents are diplomats in business. People like those kids are getting locked up and your friends gotta go bail you out and ship like that, or scrounge up some money so they can pay off the cops to let you go so that you don't get

in trouble with your parents and ship like that. So you can only imagine what's actually happening to the you know, actual local populations, what type of abuse as they're subject to by the police there. But damn even explaining all that, ship, we kinda we kind of lost track of the song. So the song Burner Boys, let's talk about that a

little bit. My first initial reaction is fire flames. Yeah, and like it's got like a like a soulful, like contemplative kind of vibe where but at the same time, the rhythms, perhaps it's just a cultural nuance that I'm not aware of because I'm sucking American. But it feels like celebratory the same time, like flabratory of bows that are that were lost. It's like a celebration of life

more than a morning of death. Um. It reminds me of when, you know, when I was a kid, my mom used to listen to quite a bit of you know, like anti apartheid like music just from different you know, regions and stuff like that. So it kind of reminds me a little bit of that vibe, has that spirit to it, like like move real movement music type, you know. Um, now that that that song is really fresh, I've never heard of Burner Boy before, but I'm sure that my

mom has. My mom is quite the consumer of like Nigerian entertainment stuff. She loves Nigerian movies and and she's always trying to put me onto the new Nigerian music that's coming out. And I'm always like, yeah, Mom, I'll get to it. Get to it. Well. Our last song for consideration today, Uh. It was just dropped last week by Drakio the Ruler who is out of jail after

three years. South Central Drakio the Ruler has been released from jail last and it's clearly dead set and picking up where we left off, according to his attorney, remediately pumping and a jail. He went at the studio for six hours to work on new music, including this track by Stone Matter off his upcoming album We Know the Truth three shots based in a final naked I'm an leaving bid in the stream with his eye from seven when I left the coupon you saw with banana peels.

I think that's like a callie thing. Now, it's because that's how blue Face raps. That's that's that's I mean, you know, I'm not too versed on it, but that reminds me of like the blue I don't know who came up with at first, but that's like that off kilter blue Face style where like always seems like it's teetering the edge of just completely falling off the flow,

but it just it still keeps it up. I wonder if he's been advised by his attorneys to like be cool in his lyrics and in his music videos now, because so the full story is that, uh, you know, he had. He emerged victorious from pretty harrowing legal battle against murdered attempted murder charges. He was originally arrested in seventeen for an incident that left the twenty four year

old man dead. He was acquitted in twenty nineteen, but what kept was kept locked up as prosecutors used his lyrics and music video is proof that Draco's rap group Two Greedy Stink stick with Stink Team. Okay, the two Greedy Stink Team was a violent gang in Dracio as the leader. In California, if you are a gang member, you can be charged for crimes other members of your supposed gang committed. Earlier this year, he recorded thank You for Using GTL, which was recorded entirely over the phone

in prison. And GTL is the telecommunications company that it's like a for profit provider of phone services to folks in jail. Um, And so so that was his way sticking it in, sticking it to him. Yeah, I mean, he was in solitary confinement for nine months out of the three years that he was locked up, and so that he used his time with relative freedom while inside to record an album that Pitchfork actually called some one of the best albums that this year. It's pretty dope.

But yeah, I wonder if like now that he's out um, the prosecutors offered him a deal of time served, and now he's back to his family and stuff. I wonder if, like in his lyrics and music videos, is gonna be like a little more careful. Um well, I mean, judging from this song, it doesn't sound like it. I mean, he's still talking about spraying people up and stuff. Look, people are probably gonna get mad, but I gotta I gotta keep it real. A lot of rappers wrap about

out the stuff that he raps about. It's kind of like a common thing now. I don't know how many rappers are out there talking about Man, I was just mind of my own business and I just got hit out the blue with a double murder charge. Don't you hate it when that happens? So, you know, I don't know. I'm I'm glad that another dude is another black man ain't in jail. But you know, as far as using

his lyrics against them, again, I think that's bullshit. I'm not sure how like widespread of a practice that is, like our d as across Is there an epidemic of d as across the country really utilizing rappers lyrics to get put bogus charges on them, because that would insinuate that every rapper has multiple murder convictions going on right now because everybody is snitching on themselves about how many people they're spraying, and that very well maybe the case,

I don't know, it seems unlikely. So I know there are some cases where Motherfucker's is genuinely like, yo, I killed this dude on this day, and I put the evidence in my mom's house is underneath my floorboard. If you check their at eight pm, you'll find it. So there's some people who are actually leaving evidence in their rhymes and ship and I don't know yet, there's profiling Motherfucker's with their rap lyrics, and then there's detective work.

I think in this particular case where his music videos and his lyrics were used to like try to saddle him with like enhanced like gang like gang enhancements for his charges. It's kind of bullshit because like I think that, and I've seen this in you know, as a legislator in my own community. Or it's like you see a bunch of young niggas hanging out and it's like call the cops. There's some dus like, Okay, these kids are fourteen years old and there's not after school programs for them.

To be in and ship and they're just hanging out, and they look like a gang because they're just kids and they're just hanging out with their friends. And so the idea that any sort of like organization of black people that is not institutionalized in some way is like a gang, it's very dangerous. And so I think in

this particular case, like that's total bullshit. And then you know, the Drakos attorney himself, John hardasaki Um called him out for you know, wasting years and millions of dollars trying to person this guy for life. Um, and so it's it's kind of bullshit. But I mean, I just but I mean, I do think it's I fear unwise for rappers till I be talking about the crimes they do. I fear it was the big details in the music.

As far as the music end goes, it's um, I mean, the song is fresh, you know, if if you can get into that flow, it's kind of like the Jim Jones thing. That's that's funny. We have two very specific flows in the music that we listened to today. And

then this particular case. There's so much to unpack here from the way our tax about dollars have spent in the judicial system, plea bargaining, California gang enhancement laws, the importance electing progressive district attorney, the question of whether progressive prosecutors even exist? You know, is that like in that like an oxymoron? Exactly? Um for profits communications companies like storting incarcerated people, as exemplified in his album Thank You

for using TL. I mean, we can do a whole fucking episode on this case. Well, it's gonna have to wait for another episode because I'm getting antsy and I feel like rapping. Let's get a beat. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, waitation, yeah yo yo, dope, knife on the microphone. I'm never quiet eat MC's till I really need a diet. Motherfucking step to me. Do you just retire? You hope one day I'll beat louder than a riot, bust re stals

and a bus my bars, I smoke, man. We need till I'm hot life stars to support everybody trying to outline stars. I love everybody. No, I'm not hard. I got nothing. I'm gonna stop in this place. I don't want to leave no evidence for my case, just in case the d want to listen up, I'm done. I'm done, Yo, legal freaking what the kids start from? Alenatuda, Jerry, we find in stars, messing conservation. Yeah, we pined like piggies.

You're about it. Listening to Rod in Sydney and if you run in with a friend of three, that's again watch out. You'll give the depth pendalty and I got plenty beats from the background. Yeah, I'm never about to back down. Everybody at clown, I'm wan, I'm dope knife and we are waiting on reparations. See you next week. Waiting on Reparations as a production of I Heeart Radio. Listen to Waiting on Repper rations on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. M