Bars and Sentences

prison fo all the time? Envision if we prioritize strong ties in the neighborhood so that distabler to stop crying at the mission of abolition. It's been this for a minute, in existance for independence within the margifacts in the alleys with our allies and the ballot and power for people we find received free for our time. Hey dope, knife, I'm lingua franca. We are waiting on reparation. Hurry up. So how you been this week, bron Man, I've been

busy as what my bad, Joe. They're still popping off Memorial Day fireworks outside the crib, like right outside the window, because what way to better honor the troops then induce PTSD reactions by firing explosives into the sky. I'm in the hood right now. So I'm hoping this all fireworks. But anyway, what are we what are we talking about today? So people was going down today. We're talking about the

election of progressive prosecutor Larry Krasner. Um. He was up for re election two weeks ago and so, and it's kind of the de facto like figurehead of the progressive prosecutor movement and so, um he recently was featured in a documentary, a little docuseries by PPS. Is that how

you heard of him? I was aware of his work like over the last couple of years, but um, I think he's he's gained increasing popularity and like his work has drawn increasing awareness through this documentary that recently came out. And then yeah, he just eased reelection UM two weeks ago. And so we're gonna talk a little bit about progressive prosecutors,

what d A. Krasner has done up in Philly. Um, some of the dynamics of his reelection uh campaign and UH and then look at the impacts that das have had on some rappers that we know in love. We'll talk about the musical relationship that rappers have had with the d A's office and as well as go into some real life examples of the adversarial nature between rappers and prosecutors. So I know about the work that you did with the district attorney and Athens back in December,

but what's your usual interaction with district attorneys. Well, we both you and I we got out and we canvassed for Debre Gonzalez, the progressive district attorney in A two thousand in December two thousand, twenty UM. And so, uh, we're gonna talk a little bit about like what a d A does as what what does it matter for

criminal justice reform um? But uh, right now, as we work on the city budget, she is the d a's office has requested I think like hundred seventy four thousand dollars increase in the budget recommendations for all these new programs, all this new stuff, and it's inciting a lot of conversation among myself and my fellow leftist commissioners about you know, we've been in this moment of like realizing that public

safety starts outside of the cars rool system. It starts before the police arrived, It starts before you get to the District Attorney's office, where they're slapping you with charges and whatnot. And so ultimately, and we'll as we'll sort of lay out in our definition of what a d A does in a moment. You know, these people are prosecutors.

These people are tasked with like deciding if people go to jail and for how long, and you know, what their bail is and all this kind of stuff, and so, uh, like there's been some hesitance to invest additional resources into an office that ultimately it's progressive as it wants to be,

it's still about putting people in jail, law enforce. Well. Yeah, you know something that I noticed, um when looking up things with the music is like as you as people see within hip hop, a lot of the the regard that people that that the d A has had has almost been identical to that that the police have, like like identical, you know, I mean almost to the point where their reference in the same sentence usually you know, right, parole officers, district attorneys, police, they're all sort of like

a part of the system. And as layman, as people you know, listeners who may not be involved in the criminal dostice system, if you don't have a criminal background

or have family members or friends that do. You might may not like peg a d A or someone like that as like the villain and the story as clearly as as the police, where we see these images of police like brutal as people, etcetera becausin and and I I say it's a false equivalency to say, you know, a d A is just as bad as the cops, because the cops are the ones that give them all these cases that they didn't have to prosecute in the

first place. Are they supposed like so they're like they're not supposed to have that's well, obviously they're not supposed to have that relationship. They have to work together, but they're supposed to be like separate things, right, separate entities like the d a's office and the police department, right Like, it's not supposed to be like law and order where

they're kind of like one big unit together exactly. The police like bring somebody in on certain charges and then they decide whether to pursue those charges or dismiss them, you know, potential sentences, negotiating clean bargains, all that kind of stuff. And so d as have typically run on like tough on crime stands up like colluding with the police. Were like round them all up and let's lock them all up in your life and get them off the streets forever. And so both here and up in Philly

there and across the country. Um, there's this movement of people who are coming in to try to reform the system from the inside by you know, it's not pursuing low level crimes, you know, or prosecuting them more lenient sentences, more rehabilitative or restorative justice techniques to actually help people

get reintegrated into society after they have committed a crime. Um. But ultimately to me, and this has been my struggle recently with deciding whether or not to like better from the day's office is like that hundred seventy four thousand dollars could also go into programs that would prevent people from getting picked up by the cops in the first place, similar to like, similar to like the logic of defund like their cops arrived when the crime has already happened,

but like if there had been a program in place to help support the person that committed the crime, they why do you need the cops for? Similarly, I feel similarly about about district attorneys. But um, there's it's it's a hard calculus, and we're gonna get into this more throughout the episode. But um, let's go ahead and hit the job and we'll see you all in a second. So, a district attorney is the chief prosecutor representing the US

state and the local government area, typically a county. The prosecution is a legal party responsible for presenting the case against an individual suspective of breaking the law, initiating and directing further criminal investigations, guiding and recommending sentences for offenders, and are the only attorneys allowed to participate in the

grand jury proceedings. The prosecutors decide what criminal charges to bring and when and where a person will answer those charges and carrying out their duties, Prosecutors have authority to investigate persons, grant immunity to witnesses, and accuse criminals, and plea bargain with defendants. So, for example, when we talk and think about like prosecutors decide what criminal charges to bring.

A recent example here in Athens, there was a guy who got into a domestic dispute with his girlfriend, wouldn't leave her house or wouldn't let her leave the house or something like that. So the district attorney's office how to decide whether to charge him with kidnapping, which has a mandatory life sentence, or false imprisondent, which is like

ten to fifteen years. So those are the kinds of decisions they're making about people that get picked up by the cops with regards to you know, the charges, and then it follows the impact on their sentencing whether the person who got in a fight with a girlfriend is going to jail for life or ten to fifteen years if convicted, you know, found guilty for the crime. Well, here's a question. This might not be something that you know, but is there like any sort of like a checker

of the d A? Like is there anyone that checks why they present certain charges the cases? I mean, obviously you can't do everything in real time on the day that every case is filed. Was there any any sort of process that goes back and and looks after that

sort of thing? I would say there's probably not a formal like role within the office or within the criminal justice system more broadly that is, like checking the d A. I mean, I guess it would just be something after the fact, like after scandal or something that you would check it sure and so what so what r d

A has been doing? And I believe something that Larry Krasner has done extensively in his tenure in office is reviewing is case review, so looking back at the sentence thing that happened before they came in and determining, uh, you know, fairness, like is this is there any discrepancies based on race across like the data on who has

been sentenced in for how long? Um? Was there any sort of misconduct in the way the trial was was undertaken, um and so and and and and a lot of times, I mean, we haven't had a case here yet, but often in other municipalities we find that people get exonerated. It turns out that like, actually this is sucked up that uh, they were sent to jail for this and for this long and they actually end up getting out. So district attorneys can check the work of previous of

their predecessors. But in terms of an existing check on that office, I'm not really sure. I'm not really sure if there exists outside of like public accountability and then like public defenders, you know, who worked to defend the folks that are brought before the prosecution, um perhaps having some role in and like taking a look at how they're deciding criminal charges and sentencing and trying to weigh

in against that if it's unfair. But yeah, across the country, there's been a lot of reform minded prosecutors setting a new precedent of winning elections on platforms committed to both

public safety and reducing mass incarceration. Uh, Folks within this quote unquote progressive prosecutor movement have pursued a range of policies including using diversion and treatment programs as alternatives for your people convicted for drug related crimes, refew using to prosecute crisis brought by officers with a history of this honesty or unreliability, and then reducing prosecutions for lower level crimes.

So this is like a wave that's been sweeping the country in recent years, with the probably probably the most prominent figure in this movement being Larry Krassner, who was elected to fill as Philadelphia's district turning into thousand seventeen. Prior to seeking the district attorney seat, he worked as a criminal defense lawyer in Philadelphia for about thirty years, specializing in civil rights, frequently representing protesters that's Black Lives Matter,

Occupy Philadelphia protesters. He would do a pro bono so that earned him that anti establishment cred. When he was a candidate in seventeen, Mr Krassner announced his first run after Donald J. Trump's presidential inauguration, and his promised to stop prosecuting drug possession and prostitution and to hold police accountable for misconduct attracted a coalition of young progressives, labor unions, and moderate black voters behind him that boosted him to victory.

It's I mean, and he had kind of had like the the cred, the track record to back it up. You know, when he was talking about holding place accountable, he had sued the police for civil rights violation seventy five times prior to his run for office. So he had the bona fides, I guess to bring out young progressive, bring out black folks, bring out people in the labor movement to support him because like he had previously walked the talk. Yeah, he showed them that he had the

experience to like actually get the ship done. Yeah. And then Yeah, indeed, during his first term in office, he ended criminal charges against those caught with pot ended cash bail for minor misdemeanors and non violent felonies, pursued reduced supervision for parolees, and sought more lenient sentences for certain crimes, and even wouldn't given the opportunity to climbing to the

death penalty in capital cases. Um and as a result of all these efforts to phil DA's offices lower the number of people in the city's jail by more than and cut the city's appropriate rules by a third. This workers are in Krasner the support of Philadelphia based and raised rapper Meek Mill, who talked about on the show before, and who's had a couple agressions with Krasner's office following

Meek's own charges incarceration in probation. Throughout the early two thousands and two thousand tens, Meek co founded the Reform Alliance, a project dedicated to getting one million people off probation, and has since been very outspoken about probation reform, having experienced at firsthand the way the terms of probation hindered

his own rehabilitation. In addition to tweets and support of Krasner's reelection, Meek could also deny the purported link between Krasner's policies and the spike and gun crime at Philadelphia. He said, Larry Krasner did not put three thousand ghost guns and phillies and is not to blame for the rising murder rate. We don't do three D printing in the hood. So something happened, Meek tweeted back in April. A good point. I mean it's like, what are you thinking, Like,

where are you gotta a dress? Where the guns are coming from the coming from the d A's office. But

we'll get more into that, uh in a second. Krasner's work has also been praised by the a c l U, particularly the work of a Sentencing Integrity Union, which has exonerated twenty innocent people who combined lost hundreds of years of their lives in prison during his three plus years as d A. As well the a c l U s opine, none of his predecessors has been as committed to rooting out violent cops Krasner see, for example, the Philly DA's office taking a case to the Pennsylvania Supreme

Court challenging the Commonwealth use of force law in a case stemming from the prosecution of officer Ryan Pannell, who shot and killed David Jones as he fled from the officer. So he's cracking down on cracking down on violent cops, exonerating and I said, people letting people out of jail, Well that are in there for low level crimes or lessening the burden of probation on folks that are you know, doing quote unquote community supervision. Sounds great, right, Well, we're

still in the pandemic. So, you know, during his tenure in the last year, especially homicide and gun violence in Philadelphia, they're on rising levels not seen since the nineties. Skyrocketing homicide ray resulting from the pandemic has now created public cries for making more rest and getting killers off the streets. So we're talking about people were people are saying, oh, this guy is leaning on crime, he's letting people out of jail. He was not prosecuting people, and that's why

gun violence is spiking in the city. So the police seized upon this pandemic driven rise in crime to promote Mr. Krasner's opponent, Carlos Vega. Vega and assistant d A. Hu Krasner or former sist in da Hu Krassner fired upon taking office two thousand eighteen. However, criminologists have said it would be impossible to substantiate the claim that Krastner's policies had led to more gun crime, with gun violence has risen sharply in many cities at last year, regardless of

whether their prosecutors were considered progressive. So, I mean, I don't I don't understand how people are like pointing at like anything that was happening post pandemic to like as an explanation for the rising crime. Like the pandemic hit, the economy took a hit, and there's mad guns in the country, So like, what do people expect is gonna happen. That's not like the result of a progressive district attorney, obviously, It's just it's like a stupid you know, it's like

a stupid explanation. And my view is that for every person we incarceor rate, we create another criminal. For every father we take out of a home and put behind bars, that's another child that's gonna become destabilized because they lost a breadwinner, because they lost a mentor, and now that kid's gonna go out and start robbing people and shooting people, or like looking for supports outside the home because he no longer has one of his parents and it's gonna

start rolling with the gang or rolling with folks. You know, let's go around breaking in the houses. Oh, let's go shopping and um. You know every time uh mother loses a son to the car stool system. Uh, you know that that drives that drives um, alcoholism, that drives drug addiction, that drives hopelessness in despair, that then forces people to turn to more crime. So, you know, on the one hand, we have people saying, oh, you let people back off

the streets where they're reoffending. At the same time, I think that every time you put someone away, were further to stabilizing a community. Quite taking away a family member or a friend, or a breadwinner or colleague employee, you

know whatever, that ultimately drives crime further exactly. But yeah, So, the Fraternal Order of Police, the union that represents fourteen thousand current and retired officers in the city of Philadelphia, has thrown everything they have at d a craft and an attempt to oust him, and even when so far as to park a soft serve ice cream truck outside the District Attorney's office to emphasize that Mr. Krasner had been soft on crime, which I love, I love, I love,

I love Larry's respond In response, Mr Krasner's campaign released a statement of support from Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's. The unions given hundreds of thousands of dollars to Krasner's opponent and has encouraged Republican voters to register as Democrat in order to vote Krasner out of the Democratic primary. Yeah, so Vega was running against Krasner in a Democratic primary. It's like I think, uh uh, Democrats out number of Republicans in the city of Philadelphia like seven to one.

So whoever wins the primary, usually it's gonna it's gonna be the d A. Yeah. Yeah. So. Krasner's attractive criticism from the left too. He's basically been called by the A C. L you for backing away from his promise to eliminate cash bail to stop holding juveniles and adult jails. His prosecutors routinely seek to detain people and have been asking judges to issue bail orders of a million dollars

against certain defendants. Once a huge proponent of ending cash bill for many offenses during his first term, he actually criticized judges for settling bill too low for gun crimes. On juvenile justice front, virtually the same number of youth are being charged with adults is before Krasner became district attorney do in large parts of Pennsylvania's direct file law, which requires that young people accused of certain crimes start

in adult court. So an additional critique I was leveraged by Ernest Owens, who wrote in Philly mag as a black queer progressive who was called for the defunding of the police. I find Krasner's performative wokeness, a pattern of behavior in which he spends more time acting self righteous on social issues than achieving progressive goals, distracts from the casts. I believe it for starters, the concept of being a progressive prosecutor is oxymoronic. Prosecutors, just like the police, are

part of a flawed system that incarcerates people. Prosecutors are committed to convicting people. That's the job. Whether a d a's office decides to offer less to charges or not. The idea that it can served as a progressive institution is patently false. I would never consider a police commissioner progressive. Regardless of how many reforms commissioners may plan to make,

they're still operating within an oppressive system. What makes the d A's office any different gave it the institution's longstanding history of criminal injustice to poor black and brown people. This next part kind of gets at what they reveal a lot through the documentaries to the docuseries, which I

actually did watch some of recently. Ernest continued, as much as Krasner would like to pretend the calls for more law and order are only coming from Trump or the Fraternal Order of Police, they're also coming from the black and brown communities he claims to be listening to. In the PBS documentary following Krafsner's first term, a black mother expresses rifle rage at Krasner after his office frees the man who killed her teenage son because investigators accessed incriminating

evidence without a warrant. So, and then there's another example from the documentary where the certain members of the family of a Slatin police officer wanted Krassner to pursue the death penalty for his murderer, and he had he had, you know, running a pledge of not pursuing the of the death penalty, and so ultimately he kind of went against not what some of the victims family wanted. Yeah, and these are black and brown and low income people

that live in Philadelphia. It's one of those things that it's like, you know, people aren't a monolith, and like, not everybody, you know, not everybody is as a tied to ideology is like has like us sometimes get when we're in our bubbles of like dealing with other people who are as political as we are all the time, you know what I mean, you forget that like some people. Yeah,

I mean and and like I like we all. I think we all struggle with a desire for vengeance, you know, and we have very deeply socialized into us conceptions of what justices and it often means making the person that hurt you suffer. Um. And so I don't think we can even blame people for like turning to that in their most in their darkest moments when they've lost a

member of their family. Um, because that's what we're taught all our lives, that justices, and so grappling with that, like what does it mean for us to listen to those voices to center those voices in the work that we do. Even if we disagree with this orientation towards punishment and revenge as as as um means of justice is something that he has to grapple with and we all have to grapple with in this in this work of criminal justice reform. I mean, it's it's definitely a

tough job. I can definitely see how it could uh be conflicting for somebody who who is you know, stepping into like that role and maybe they have uh, you know, of view and a philosophy. That's one way. But just like being part of that machine requires you to have to make decisions that you know what I mean, just fundamentally you're gonna put you be, make you be opposed to what you or wise would would be cool with,

you know what I mean. It's it's one of those things where I always, like, I I don't know if I ever asked you this when we were canvassing for Bernie and stuff like that, but like, did you ever like that anybody who's like a Bernie supporter ever, like wonder if like whatever issue you want to think about it, that Bernie or position that like someone like Bernie Sanders has now and then they get and then he gets into office and like he hears something that none of

us have privy you know, information to where he's like, oh, okay, well then that ship that I was saying, I can't do that obviously, you know what I mean, Like because of the job just makes you fundamentally from the very nature of it. In order to do it a certain way, you know what I mean, you either have to throw out how it's done or you have to like kind of like go again some things that you might believe it.

I faced that as I faced that in politics constantly, where it's like balancing my own values against my duty to be responsive to the folks that elected me, and like living in a representative democracy being the people's voice being versus uh, I guess like embrace embrace of the position that that people trusted me to make the right decision based on my consciousness when they voted for me.

So maybe I am just allowed to do what I want to do like they were very They're often very conflicting views on a number of policy things you have to vote on, and also like which voices do you listen to, like people want to pay like black and brown communities is a monolith like, oh we you know, we black. Like all the time I hear black people like, oh,

black people don't want to fund the police. And then all the other side, like the black people are like all my niggas like screaming, well, ah, my niggas be screaming foxwell what And each each side wants to claim that they are the voice of their democrat of their community, like I really represent the community. What do I say? Really? Yeah, I don't listen these niggas over here. So um no, it's really it's really tricky. It's really tricky. It's conflicting.

I mean, you know, that's things like that. Those are the things that make me, you know, very very respectful of people to anybody. There's a there's a certain base level of respect that I have for anyone who approaches getting into politics and good faith to begin with, because it's like, man, there's some hard decisions that you gotta make. Yeah, yeah, straight up. So in the end, Larry Krasner ended up dustin Carlos Vega. Krasner earned more than double Vegas vote total.

Krassman's victory two weeks ago likely assures his re election ahead of November's general election, because the registered Democrats there out number the Republicans like seven to one up there, so he's a safe bet to win the whole thing. What's interesting is that Krassner's mandate is now far greater than it was after his initial elections thousand seventeen, when he won the Democratic primary ut percent of the vote

in a multi candidate field. This year and a one on one race, he got about sixty five from the vote. Some more people voted for him this time and then last time, despite the spike in crime, despite some of the critiques in the left, And so it's interesting, um

that yeah, here we are. I mean, I think there's a number of like of like uh aspects of the zeit guys that manifested, you know, made this manifest like the fucking biggest social movement of my goddamn lifetime last year, or that we're still in you know, I'm assuming that the So the Carlos Vega guy, he was the Republican candidate, well he was running in the Democratic primary, but he was a Republican candidate though or was he writing in a Democratic he was running as a Democrat. Yeah, backed

by the cop Union with like hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yeah, and so what some had to say about how, why has happened? How has happened? UM? Nicholas old Rourke, the organizing director for the Pennsylvania Working Families Party, supported Krasner pulled the nation voters reacted the FOP spear based propaganda and send a fear message. We cannot incarceerate our way into public safety. So I mean this this general idea that's reimagining of what it means to make our communities safe.

I think uh expanded his support as the consciousness has been raised around UM the need for us to just do things utterly differently, more so than it was in two thousand seventeen when he was first elected. Kendrew Brooks, the Philly councilwoman also elected with the w f P party line in two thousand nineteen, had this to say. The uprising clearly articulated that the power of the people was greater than any one election or elected official, that if real change was going to happen, we would have

to fight for liberation every avenue of power. And so I think this again, one of the results of the uprising People's Uh Uh increased the earness and attention paid to local politics, that things like defund that, things like ending mass incarceration start with your d A. They start with your police department, it starts with your public defender's office.

It starts with your local county jail. It's not you know, going to Biden and like expecting him to fucking do anything about X architected the fucking system we're living in, and the federal level doesn't have a ton to do with what's happening in your neighborhood with regards to people getting picked up by the cops and sentenced to decades

in prison for stupid ship. Um, all of that is controlled, you know, locally, and I think maybe out of last summer's uprising came an increased awareness of that and increased engagement with that, and that using every avenue of power to dismantle the system of mass incarceration, even one that

is inherently complicit in it to a degree. So yeah, I mean, like this said, you know, progressive prosecutor definitely has oxymoronic a vibe to it, But you know, you gotta work with what you got, and sometimes you can't be so idealistic in terms of like everything kind of has to be, you know, the perfect way that you would want it to be. You kind of have to just you know, go with what you got, and what

we got right now is the system. So you know, you can't bring it down if you're completely incapable of infiltrating it. So you have to try that first. So let's get into the music portion of things, where we are going to be discussing the relationship between hip hoppers and the District Attorney's office. We're gonna get to that after the jump. You don't give anyway. That was a line from um the late Notorious b I G on the song Realist Nigga feature in fifty I think I

was like a two thousand two the mixtape joint. But anyway, Yeah, the district attorney as the character, if you will, and hip hop has has been regarded like the police, like we were talking about in the beginning of the episode,

it's mostly like an adversarial relationship. Most of the references of it are in resentment or with ill will, people expressing like a funk the d A. There's the famous outro ad libs at the end of Tupac's pitching me rolling where he's he's literally just addressing the d a's like a d A. Can you see me? I'm rolling, bitch pitching me rolling, you know that sort of ship. Meek Mill was in a courtroom in his hometown Philadelphia

back in two thousand twelve. Based on reports, the judge present ideing over the case, it's scolded him for the youth for his song titled the Ride. We're gonna check that out right now, but I don't understand. We're not just to show in front of damn. That's so, I mean, this goes so deep. It's like she takes taking taking her frustrations out on people in her courtroom. I probably need a man, I mean, that's like a harsh critique.

But the Yeah, the judge admonished him for the lotter a bit right, Yeah, and uh you know, instructed him to not to mention the d A in any of his future recordings. Um. We've also discussed the nationwide phenomena of local d as using rap lyrics as evidence in cases against uh, you know, local local rappers in their areas, with the example that we had of Draco the Ruler

some sometimes back. We have that example, but justin in in searching, there's almost too many cases for us to even really reference because it seems like there's one going on in every state. I highly recommend this article. Uh. It's an NPR article called rap Lyrics in Court Art

versus Evidence. But it's pretty much a breakdown of like it's kind of like a debate article between like a you know, a criminal justice advocate and then like some legal minds and they're pretty much going back and forth about why so many district attorneys offices are using rap lyrics and stuff like that, and on what basis they're using the lyrics to do that? What are your thoughts

on that whole thing. Well, I actually participated in a panel with this woman named Andrea Dennis earlier this year where we were talking about the idea using, uh using rap lyrics in trial. It's interesting because, uh, myself and my friend Montu who are on the panel, we're talking about how, oh rap is the CNN of the of the streets. You know, rapis list is journalistic you know, expression of our lived experiences out reality. And then the

author was actually like, actually, you all are wrong. Rap Lyrics are fictional. Rap Lyrics are impressionistic. They are not talking about actual things that happened. Most of the time talking about things and they would like to have happened or thinks they want to boast having happened even though they did not. It has like a flex that is not actually grounded in reality. And for that purpose and then for those reasons, rap rap lyrics should not be

used on trial. And I actually it like fus with me because I was like, damn, Like my my argument for why, like oh rappist journalism rapids is that also can be used against us of like oh rapis journalism. Well, this nigga said he shot four people in this song. I think it's like a case by case basis, you

know what I mean? Like it for me, I just can't comfortably be like I generally think it's out of bounce things because I can think of specific examples just imagining it in my head where it's like, okay, I would understand that, Like for example, if like Eminem's wife we'rena go missing and the cops are like, yeah, we want to talk to Emine because we heard some ship.

Like I'm not you know, all I'm saying is I'm just saying I would understand why a detective would be like, oh, I'm going to look into that, you know what I mean. Like I just feel like if you can go on somebody's Instagram account and like, oh, this person was posting that they did this, and they were posting that they did that, and oh we we we connected a plus B and oh that person got caught because they snitched

on themselves on Instagram. And it seems like people would probably do that in rap songs, you know what I mean? And and if there is I know that there was that case of what was his name is why y m W Melly y MW Melly. Yeah, Like again you know, I don't I don't know the full details of it, so I I, you know, hesitate to speak on it

like that. But like from my general understanding of how that case was going down, he had a song called Murder on My Mind that was like a huge hit, and it's like literally like giving evidence, you know what I mean. It wasn't it wasn't like a stretch like oh, we're just gonna grab any of You're just gonna like take all of his songs, and it was like nos, like oh no, when he said this, it meant you know what I mean in that particular song and like

something like that. It's like with me, I'm like, oh, well, I don't want to see somebody go to jail. But at the same time, like literally talking about somebody that was killed and that person needs justice an accountability to So it's complicated and d as do that. D as can bring in lyrics as evidence happened, drinking of the ruler happened, Melly happens all the time, and then their legal minds on either side of the issue trying to determine the legitimacy of the practice. Yeah, yeah, I'd have

to start seeing it happen. So I don't know. It's one of those things that I don't know. It's it's a very very for me conflicting, conflicting issue because like, on one hand, I definitely can imagine like a totalitarian state where by the fund is it just pulling up people's writing and their artistic expressions and manipulating it and using it to lock people up and ship like that. But I don't I'm not necessarily sure that that's what's

happening on that front though. Yeah, I mean we talk Abo had that whole episode about Pablo Slho had lyrics about praising terrorists and insulting you know, the insulting the monarchy. So I guess it just like it becomes a slippery slope thing as well. Like at one point it's like free speech, not can you not just say like sh like just because you want to say it in a song, and now you're criminalized for it. In the way things are headed now, I can totally see if they can

start convicting people on stuff like this. Then if you make a song that's like a protest song or like something that's got like a run the jewels, eat the rich and burn down a bank to it, Oh, you inspired them to burn down the fucking YadA YadA bank or to break such and such window. Now you gotta

you know you incited to riote with your song. That's probably what Keysha Lance Bottoms called up killing Mike and said when she got him to that press conference last summer where they were like burning down the CNN Center Like, well, Mike, I actually have the d A on online too, and um, we're very concerned about your lyrics about uh giving them CEOs hell the burning of the sofa. Goddamn I left to smell. Well, when we find them, we don't kill them.

We just warter boredom. Um, So I'm gonna need you to come down here for this press conference. Other wise, Um, look outside your window, a p D is sitting and waiting to bring you to the Fulton County Channel. Even want to put that bad ju ju in the air because I definitely got some stuff out there that could definitely be twisted. On the next subject I wanted to

talk about. This last thing is this uh situation with Mark Jones who was a district attorney hopeful a year ago he was running in a Columbus, Georgia for a district attorney and that how do you pronounced that? Chattah Chachi, the Chattahoochie. That's that's quite quite a word, the Chattahoochie judicial circuit. Now, he uh filmed a video was to get out the vote video with a rapper called Judge Boy. We're gonna listen to a little bit of that right now.

Freedom and legal Yeah, yeah, people we need Why don't right now? No kid? He want the band he wonna be preaching and talking about it. Oh my god, all right, that's enough. What the fund did? I just watching. Yeah, the video, I'll explain to the video. It's like a bunch of people hanging out cars parked around them, very like hip hop video Stale Boy Jays wrapping people got

like Mark Jones signs. But then Mark Jones is this skinny ask white boy in like a blue suit with a red tie, and he's like bouncing giving the thumbs up, like what the fund is this? And arrest warrant was issued shortly after, just thirteen days ahead of his Democratic primary by the Columbus Police, and they charged him with four felonies and two misdemeanors connection with the video that was posted to Facebook after the police said his campaign had failed to get a permit to for the shoot

in the parking lot of the Columbus Civics Center. Now,

the charges included check this out. The charges included conspiracy to commit criminal damage of property, conspiracy to commit interference with government property, and conspiracy to commit reckless conduct, and they were filed after Jones gave a stinging criticism of the District Attorney's Office of Columbus and the Columbus Police in response to the reports that officers were confiscating marijuana and consuming it while on the job, but he won

the election is currently he ended up turning himself in, but he's currently the district attorney elect. So I I assume everything worked out. I didn't follow too much on the case props. I gotta give the man props to that ship. Yeah, that's why that's I'm actually I'm gonna try to I'm gonna try to reach out to him so we can get him on the show to talk to him, because you know, he's he's billed himself, at

least I can tell from his Facebook page. He's build himself as the People's d a, you know what I mean, And he's hip hopping around, so I kind of want to talk to the dude and see what that's all about, you know what I mean. So we might have to follow this up on this episode. Well, I mean, that's what we got for today, and we will be back next week as we always are. I think we are going to be if if if if the things aligned

the way that's supposed to. I think we're going to be talking about battle Rap in the next episode and some of the political and social implications that that has, just in the culture of hip hop and justin pop culture in general. That's gonna be a fun one. Can't wait to do that. You got anything going? Um? What I got? Nah? I'll see you all next week. I got I got shift for y'all. Alright, well, everybody be safe out there. Uh, you know, we can't go anywhere

without spitting some some funky fresh traps. Ao Joel, can we please get a beat? Hey, this is Dope Knife Lingua Franca and we are waiting on reparations. See you next week. Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts m