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like this. You like it when I'm doming it. Hold me in your hands again, be stiffer than the mannequin. Look me in the yard. Don't move until I jam it in. I don't want to hold you, just want to hold you down to your squirt and then I drowned like the funk I'm told to. Since you left has been some kinky sexs have been exposed to. So I hope you cool. If I got ship, I'm trying to show you a little disgusting like fruitcake. Hey leave them struggling with two when I write on Nigglas like

they kind of pillars in the shallow river. Cool rain, ain't miss me with that group things. I'm sitting home every Tuesday, I'm pissing off of the power dealers and kissing on all those the cute gigs she's had, And what an average figure. I'm a shower witter? Is that bad to consider it? Is it in the drag that your girls in my lap? Again? Like she a napkin and dinner. She was a capitalist unattracted to women until

I came mckin on Twitter. Now she likes Jacobin and dropping banners from Brendain's and dunking on fashionst but glitter. So yo, I don't think I heard that one. Okay, I'm dope, knife, I'm Lingua franca. We are waiting on reparations. Hurry up. So how are you doing. I'm fine. You had a little adventure this weekend. I always have an adventure,

just having an adventure. So I drove down to Stone Mountain where white supremacists were gathering to defend the Confederate monument Hard in the Face of Stone Mountain, the largest basil based relief sculpture in the world or something like that. I saw that on like Twitter, like it was kind

of crazy. There was so we showed up. Um there was a coalition of I think like thirty different organizations around the southeast from as far as the way it is like Birmingham, I think they're actually worth some anti fascists that came down who flew in from Portland to take part um, to resist the gathering of white supremacists there, to defend the Confederate monument and to call for the

sin blasting of Stone Mountain. So what went down because like, as far as it looked like from if you were just you know, sitting on your ass at home watching you know, TV and seeing it's you know, on your Twitter feed, it seemed like it was a full on clash of like different groups and stuff like that. So the white supremacists were not issued a permit for their protest, and so they actually ended up locking down Stone Mountain Park to prevent them from gathering there. But they were

showing up nonetheless. So we were gonna show up nonetheless, um and just make it known to them that you know, you weren't going to stand for it. I can stand for that ship. So was there a protesting Stone Mountain earlier in the summer? In the earlier the summer might have been, Oh yeah, So it's back then, not sucking around. Coalition gathered in Stone Mountains. Yeah, like a couple of hundred,

maybe even a thousand people deep. But what really happened maybe two blocks away there was another gathering and there was like a big Confederate flag kind of waving back and forth above the gathering, and all these people dressed in black. So people just started going over there. They're like, fucking funk here, Kendrick Lamar, We're gonna be all right, Like we're gonna go fucking take it to them right now.

And I was kind of nervous because it seemed like a similarly sized gathering as the anti fascist gathering that we're all part of. That. I got over there and what discovered is that all the people clad in black, we're also antifa um. And there was only like eleven like white supremacists with all of their guns and their camo, etcetera. But once the huge group started rolling up on them, we just like very quickly surrounded them, started like getting

them to back up, started back away. You're channing, go home, racists, go home. Would you say the demographic was of like the antifa um? It was mixed. I mean a lot

of different ages and races. I'd say probably mostly white people, but um, because I've noticed that there's been especially since um, in the months since the process has kind of calmed down, I've noticed that just in terms of like the corporate media narrative, there seems to be kind of like a painting of progressivism in general or just leftists thinking in general is like being a white thing, and they're trying to like painted as cases like these when white supremacists

are showing up with tons of guns. Uh, Like, it makes more sense to me for white folks to put their bodies on the line to push back because like, of course they're going to pull the trigger more easy if it's like a bunch of up. Yeah, And there were you know, like there were like a lot of black people. There also a lot of people from Stone Mountain that came and joined us, And so that was the early part. And then later on we did a march around the block and encountered some more groups. I

guess the white supremacist sort of consolidated. There's only like twenty of them versus like a hundred to two hundred of us, and so we were like I didn't I was not participant in this part, but I watched with glee as their you know, Confederate flags were getting snatched and burned other sorts of altercations. Unfortunately, they eventually fought back and one of the white supremacists started spraying raid

in the faces of the Antifa folks. Um and then the cops showed up, and that's when me and my contention like, yeah, They're like, there's no like concrete demands to get arrested over. That's what's gonna ye guess to jail. Who knows where they're gonna take us to jail where from appens. I'm not trying to get locked up in Fulton County or something. So we split, but um Hall and all. We humiliated them, and it felt really good. Yeah, I mean there they should be used to els by

this point. Yeah, you know I was. I was kind of shocked when you came back, because, you know, when I brought up possibly what we wanted to do the episode about, and you were kind of aware of what was going on. I was shocked, as busy as you are that you know that you even reached your radar. But this whole situation with the Cardi B and Meg the Stallion song how do you I would pronounce it? Whatp?

How would you pronounce it? Like? Well, I mean it started a bunch of discussion and got you know, both of us thinking. This episode, we're going to be discussing the history of abscenity law in the United States and it's implications for the conversations that have come up surrounding Cardi B and mag The Stallions song Wow concerning uh primarily you know, sexually explicit lyrics and in particular, you know, hip hop and society at largest reaction towards women taking

control of the subject of sexuality. So on August seven, rappers Cardi B and Meg the Stallion caused the mini uproar with the release of their song Whop, which is an acronym for wet ass, pussy, raunchy and explicit club banger with the ladies. You know, they run down a checklist of their sexual wants, needs, exploits, and abilities. You know. It's it's it's got funny innuendo, punchlines, trap bat it's standard ship, you know what I mean. It's like typical

club banger. It's got a dope sample from that nineties dance song. There's some Whars in this House by Frank Ski. You know there's some wres in this house. There's some more you heard this ship? Yeah, but could it be considered obscene? My immediate answer would be no, And I'm not really sure that it is considered obscene? What do

you think? I mean, I think, having done some research into how obscenity is legally defined, and we'll get more into that in a second, I would say no because it does have artistic merit, but we'll come back to that. But culturally, what do you think? When I talk with a lot of friends that my age where always we always talk about where the generation that's old enough to have known life before the Internet was crazy all over the place. But we're young enough to have grown up

a little bit in the Internet age. And I find kids these days are exposed to a lot more quicker and just culturally compared to when I was a kid, Just like sexuality and sexual expression is much more accepted than it was even ten years ago. A little bit about the trailblazers that made that possible. Within music, I feel that's gotten lost in some of the the conversation

around the song. Is you know you obviously you have the people who are grand standing on like some moral basis and it's like, oh my god, I can't believe that there's a song where they're talking about us pussy, you know. And then you've got uh the hotels who are like, oh, women shouldn't talk about these things and she should were children. Yeah, it's like, I don't even know why we're entertaining what these people think. But obviously

those voices are out there. But the reason that in that that's not like the dominating opinion is because of people who Blaze put that work and made those songs and made those statements so that there's people who walked on glass and hot coal, so that Cardi B and Meg the Stallion could gallop in the field and we're gonna we're gonna pay some homage to them today. I feel like the song is definitely growing on me. If I weren't for COVID, i'd definitely be the answer to

this at church Bar every Saturday. First, on the topic of it being obscene, because since there's so many people that are pearl clutching, you know, like they've never heard something like this before, why don't we break down a little bit of what obscenity actually is and how it's been dealt with in the American legal So, the first ever federal law restricting the distribution of obscene materials came out came about in eighteen seventy three, largely thanks to

the efforts of anti advice activists and total kill joy Anthony Comstock, who famous anarchists Emma Goldman referred to in her autobiography as the leader of America's moral unis. The Comstock Act prohibited sexually explicit material to be distributed through the mail, which included information about birth control and abortion, which I think is an important fact. Sneak those certain things in there, don't they? Right? It's all I mean,

like it's about it. And I think this history is important because it shows how laws restricting freedom or speech when it comes to sexuality and the ways that that trickles down into the culture have always been about controlling women and controlling women can do and what women can say. However, the legislation UH did not define obscenity, and they said left it to the court determined on a case by case basis, and us um obscenity law is actually unusual

in this aspect. And that there's no uniform national standard um. There's an explicit legal precedent, the Miller tests, which we'll talk about in a second UM, that allows something which is legally obscene in one jurisdiction to be legally fine in another. UM. There doesn't exist as specific listing of a which exact acts are to be classified as obscene on like a national all scale. Now, preceding the Miller tests, there were several standards historically by which something could be

deemed legally obscene. In eight the case a Rosen versus the United States, the Supreme Court adopted the same obscenity standard as had been articulated in the famous British case Regina versus Hicklin eighteen sixty eight. The Hicklin tests defined material as obscene if intended to deprave or corrupt the minds of those who are open as such immoral influences, you know, people whose hands a publication of the Stork could fall into, which I think is interesting because it's like,

what is depravity? What is corruption? Because on the other hand, you might consider, and many do and are considering, a song like WAPs to be very sexually empowering because they're talking about what they want, talking about what they can do, they're talking about what their standards are in articulating for themselves. They're like agent, they're sexual agents rather than being like sexual objects acted upon. And in that sense actually h

like bolstering, like confidence bolstering. But I don't know, I mean, like, on the other hand, it sounds like a very fancy way of saying people who were maybe frightened by their

own directions came up with these laws. That's the Yeah, Okay, So this got thrown out in the mid nineteen fifties the Hickland test, and then it was supplanted by the Rath test, which said that something is obscene if to the average person applying contemporary community standards, the dominant theme of the material, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurian interest. So if it makes you feel a little if you feel at a little tingly, that makes you

a little uncomfortable. Yeah, if you're if you get a boner and you're scared. But yeah, it's like, oh my god, and you're an average person applying contemporary community standard. And then also you rewind ship by like two hundred and fifty years you know what I'm saying, like ankles and collar balls, Like oh or not? What's happening to you? Mom? Uh?

There you go. The test got another upgrade in nineteen seventy three with the court case Miller versus California, which established the Miller test as the new metric for obscenity that we still use today. Um and with it, you know, determining whether or not materialist protected by the First Amendment.

So the Miller test, also called the three pronged obscenity test, says, UM, whether the average person applying contemporary community standards would find that the work taken as a whole arouses some kind of sexual desire anxiety, Whether the work depicts or describes in a patently offensive ways actual conduct or expratory functions. It's actually interesting how those are looping together, um, specifically

defined by applicable state law. And then the last was whether the work taken as a whole lack serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value, which is it's last because it's the last line of defense. So it's like if if they if none of the other stuff could be proven, then it's like that last bit, it's like, I don't like this, what's the thing. If all three conditions are satisfied by the texting question, the work is considered an obscene. So

it can't just be talking about an excrittory function. It can't just be whether or not you get a scared boner when you listen to it. It has to be all of these things together. Okay, so let's go down, let's let's try to let's let's put it to the test. Then does whop past the Miller tests? So depends on how you to find the apples person applying contemporary community standards because, like you said at the top, a lot a lot of teams today grew up in the wild

west of the Internet. It's really when I was a kid, let's say when I was like thirteen twelve, I'd say, is around when I personally think I don't know what my parents think, but like around the age when I think my mom probably would have like been like, you're

listening to what you know? So let's say that age, Yeah, I would have had to go into a record store to buy you know what, I mean, to get ahold of it because they probably wouldn't have played this on the radio, and there was no Internet where I could just hear it uncensored, so that would it's the average person of my day, not like a kid or anything like that. I guess would have been in their late teens,

early twenties. Right, Okay, now the average person that's gonna be exposed to it, just keeping it a buck, right, we're talking like eight year old. Yeah, that's a good point, you know what I'm saying. That's just if we're keeping it like honest, eight year old has the time to like stream one song twenty seven times on Spotify, you know, Like that's not like with like bills and responsibilities. Well, I think the work does depict in patently partently offensive

sexual contact. They talk up the other like you know, I wouldn't say patently offensive. Cultural standards have changed, just just to go back if we're talking about then yeah, you know I can I can totally understand. We've got this dynamic of the Christian right and all that sort of ship that doesn't exist at all. Like there literally is no one that has any sort of moral high ground to like get mad at a sexually explicit song. I just don't. I don't think so there's there's no

one that's living up to that. We're all I think at this point we all kind of under I think at this point it's just patently hypocritical to think that anything in the song is patently offensive. Yeah, but then there's the third point whether the work taken as a whole lax serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. So I think with this what I mean, you can I do think the song has our two sick merritt. I

do think Meg's cadence, her flow is pretty dope. I mean, and I'm not a super fan of Cardi B's like flow is um pretty standard for her. But political value, I think it has unintended political value, you know, kind of kind of like what we were we talked about on a few episodes ago about people's intent, and it's kind of one of those things where I don't think that it was intended to be that statement, but just in the midst of the uproar about it, it's kind

of I don't like Cardi B is pretty smart. I wish you understand. Not really a question of whether or not Cardi B is smart or Cardi B like, it's not about her capabilities a matter of fact, she is like, you know, on record recently, amiss all of this, like pretty much putting that out there. That was like, Hey, I tried to make a serious song before nobody streamed it. People streamed when I talk about my pussy, So I'm

gonna talk about my pussy. She's like, you guys should stream she She's like, you guys should stream the female rappers that don't talk about their pussy. That was pretty much her her argument for it, which, hey, you know, it's like, do you think I get it? It's just she's done songs like this before, so I don't understand why this one unless her whole entire rap stick is like, this whole thing is for the purpose of sexual expression

and empowerment. And I get that that makes sense, and it very well might be the case, but I don't know why this song would be the song that is chosen to make that statement when the City Girls Torque song that she did just last summer was pretty much the same song with a better beat in my opinion.

So in the nineties seventies we kind of developed the standards for obscenity that are still while they used today, but the battle over obscenity and music really ramped up in the eighties with the Parents Music Resource Center p M MARC list of songs deemed unsuitable content and levying particularly heavy criticism against Princes Darling Nikki after co founder of Tipperacre heard her eleven year old daughter saying the lyrics, which included an explicit mention of masturbation. Let's uh, let's

backtrack and check out those um fifteen songs. We've got Princess Darling Nicki, We've got a Sheena, Eastern Sugar Walls, Judas Priests, Eat Me Alive, Vanity strap On, Robbie Baby, Motley, Crew Bastard a C d C. Let me put my love into you. Twisted Sisters, We're not gonna take it. Yeah,

So Twisted Sisters were not gonna take it. Got put on there for violence, and I remember being a real little kid that like they were actually were, you know, in the halls of Congress, actually testifying, you know, towards

the whole entire situation. Yeah. Yeah, so um. The Record Industry Association of America responded to this complaint by introducing an earlier version of their content warning label, and then PRMC pushed back and proposed that a music rating system work more similarly to the Motion Picture Association in America's

film rating system from movies. The r I a A. The Record Folks alternatively suggested using a warning label reading parental guidance explicit lyrics, and after a continued conflict between the organizations, the matter came up in a September hearing of the United States Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. Uh and so as you were saying. Notable musicians Frank Zapp, John Denver, the Snyder each testified at the hearing was strong opposition to the p m r c S warning

label system and censorship in general. Approximately two months after the hearing, the organization agreed on a settlement in which audio recordings were to either be affixed with the warning label reading explicit lyrics parental advisory, or have its lyrics attached to the back side of the packaging. So you know, we all know the parental advisory sticker. It's really funny. It's really like I remember saying that as a kid

and being like, I want that record, mommy. Well you know what the you know how like I'm a huge Iced Tea fan, right. Iced Tea was one of the artists that was like mired in this and at the forefront of it. So it was a huge backdrop to a lot of his early albums, Like he had a song called freedom of Speech that was literally the story of this whole thing. And he had a rhyme that was um Pio Marcy, you stupid fucking asshole. The stickers on the record. That's what makes it sell gold. Can't

see you, alcoholic idiots. The more you try to suppress us, the larger we get. I can't believe. I just remember that. It's one of those things where it's like when a song comes out like wop or any any sort of song, and people who are fans of it because hey, everybody's got a reason a night like something. And I make music too, I don't make it with any sort of expectation that everybody's gonna like it. So hey, everybody has their reason, and everybody's reason can be legit to them.

But when fans of a certain artist feel that criticism against that artist for something, it's like persecution or oh why you guys going against you know, It's like Yo, At a certain point in time, artists were really being persecuted, like by the government, not Twitter comments and ship yea.

Broward County, Florida Sheriff Nick Navarro arrested and charged recoistaurant owners who sold the rap group to lab Cruise album as Nasty if they want to be to literally getting persecuted by the government for like the circulation of obscene materials. There was a case of it being sold to a fourteen year old girl. Um, and yeah, I mean it was if you haven't heard Nasty as you want to be, you know, it's it's got the famous single Misa Horny, you know, so it's, uh, it's what you would expect.

So Navarro believe the album comes constituted obscenity, and then they ended up going to court over and now Skywalker Records, which was the company that put out the album, and two Life Cruise lead performer Luther Campbell and the four members of the group filed a lawsuit in federal court seeking a judicial declaration that their album was not obscene and the actions of Navarro imposed an unconstitutional prior restraint

on expression. A federal District court judge declared the record obscene in Skywalker Records Versus Navarro, applying the Miller test from Supreme Court decision Miller versus California. They didn't think that missa Horney had like political value wait for it. However, the plaintiffs appealed to the leaventh Us Circuit Court of Appeals,

which reversed in Luke Records versus Navarro Nity two. The appeals court explained the plaintiffs had submitted expert testimony that the album contains serious artistic value, a contingent not refuted by the sheriff through any expert testament other than you know, he just submitted a tape recording of the album. And I was like, can you believe this? Yeah? And this is all from David L. Hudson Jr. Who's a law

professor at Belmont who publishes widely on the First Amendment topics. Now, many other rappers have been threatened through the years with obscenity charges and just different types of censorship. Like I was saying before, Ice T was a pioneer of this

too short just come under fire for his lyrics. A rap lyrics became the subject of the U. S. Supreme Court case A Loneus versus the United States two thousand fifteen, when the court evaluated whether a man committed a true threat when he posted rap lyrics that allegedly threatened his ex wife and others. Now, can rap music make people violent? That was the essence of the argument filed by attorneys for three family members of the slain Texas State Trooper

Davison versus Time Warner. Now, the state trooper was killed by Ronald Howard, who was listening to the Tupac album to Apocalypse Now at the time. But that's a whole other issue for another episode in itself. So let's stick to talking about the sex stuff. Alright, sex stuff now, music discussion. We've been talking about this Whop song, and you know, I don't want to I don't want to

get two Insideryhannes. So let's not just assume that everybody has heard it, and let's just listen to a little bit of it right now my mouth, pick my eyes to sign in the wave of everyone having their takes

on the song. From what I've been seeing, there's a lot of the sentiment of finally, women in hip hop are expressing themselves in this way, or you know, in in people's effort to dunk on the trolls who are been out and having something negative to say, I feel that to give Cardi and Megan props for putting out a song like this, I feel that people are serving a blind eye to the type of artists who have come out before and put out songs like this before.

Sexually explicit lyrics and hip hop aren't a new thing, vibe any any stretch of the imagination obviously, you know. With with that is the issue of the double standard between when men make sexually explicit songs and or have sexually explicit lyrics and when women do. I mean, it's mirror as much of contemporary life. So uh, I think that why why do you think that is though? For the men who do like what? Because because there's still a prevailing notion that women are sexual objects and not

sexual agents. Like it's you know, you see a girl, what a fatass? You like? Damn girl? Try to get your number? Uh? Like talk to like bragging on his sexual exploits. It's like a it's it's like a really uh pernicious but like pervasive aspect of like masculinity. Uh. And so it's like just horrific and totally subversive, not groundbreaking anymore, but still really challenges the prevailing to paradigm one whip and claimed for sexual agency and talk about

like if it don't hang, you can't bang. A common critique of just hip hop in general is how a lot of it's kind of like, you know, somebody finds something that's dope and that works, and that catches on, and then a trend follows, and then for everyone rapper who's doing their thing, got like fifteen cats who are like bite right, So that's like a common thing to begin with, right, So do you think that there's any room for perhaps the critique that with some of the

trail blazing female hip hop artists who have blazed that trail. You know, I can tackle the subject and be in control of sexuality and I can be just as sexually aggressive as like a man and rapping about the topic and ship like that. Do you feel with the artists who kind of found success with that that that perhaps has started a trend that maybe has lasted to create. It's created a profitable lane. Like you said at the beginning, Uh, Cardi is talking about like I put out songs that

were smart. Yeah you know my listen to them, but I make millions off of talking about my pussy. So I'm going to talk there's until there's a there's an

incentive motive. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. I just for me, I'm not shocked when like people who I know who are like a bit snobbish about their music taste don't funk with stuff like this, because it's like, yeah, I mean, why would you, you know, Like something like this doesn't strike me as it being necessarily made for someone who's thinking really that deeply about the music that

they're listening to. I mean, I think like getting linguistically imaginative and the way you're describing sexual scenarios, there's a lot of room to grow. Still, like, uh, Cardian Meg aren't talking about it in the same way that Little Kim Dead back at Night WHOA Well, I would I would have to, I would have to um, I would

have to disagree. I think that it could definitely be argued that perhaps the Little Kim's of the world were more explicit than I mean, first of all, we don't even have to take it back to card We can talk about contemporaries right now. There is a contemporary. I mean, have you heard of cupcakes? We reviewed cupcake songs on an episode before Cupcake, Who is Cupcakes not like an international I'm filling up stadium. But Cupcake is by no

means a small artist. In Cupcake, I would say on a song by song basis you know me, I'm want, I'm I'm a rap file. I listened to rap just constantly all the time. Cupcake is I mean Cupcakes team ship is like worse than what for real, for real, And I'm not I'm not even exaggerating about that. As a matter of fact, I pulled up a Cupcake song or further on our music discussion that we can check out.

But yeah, like Cupcake really goes in. So even amongst her contemporaries, I don't think that this classifies as like super bad. I think we're really getting people is just the hook, just the wet ass pussy aspect of the hook. And that is a common theme with people's rejection of certain dirty quote unquote dirty rap songs. But let's first talk about the sub genre of porner rap slash dirty rap. Okay, so the genre has been around since this nineteen seventies

with Blowfly in his rap Dirty album. We we talked about blow Fly when we talked about how Chuck D was inspired by his lyrics for a line in the song fight the Power. It wasn't until the nineteen eighties an Oakland rapper Too Short release the nineteen eighty three album Don't Stop Rapping, containing multiple dirty sex subjects, that

sex became the central focus to life. Crew garnered much negative publicity, however, and it wasn't until their ninety nine album As Nasty As They Want to Be that dirty rap became a legitimate subgenre in itself. You Got so it makes a lot cool, Keith Nelly, I've been saying that wrong. Nobody corrected me, and this all time contributed along the way with songs like what It Didn't you Know? And the album Sex Style but One Woman, We Feel really took the style of being sexually explicit and wrapped

and harnessed it and brought it into the mainstream. And that is low Kim. I mean, I want to say we feel, but I think it's kind of at the end of the day, when especially when we're talking about the music stuff. We're fans, and you know a lot of this is our opinion, but I think with this particular issue, it might be safe to say the little Kim is the mother of this mainstream sex rap ship and all these bitches as her sun. But um, just

HARKing back to just memory. It's like, it's not to say that few women artists didn't reference sex or talk about sex as as you're gonna hear, I mean salt

and peppers. Let's talk about sex. Precedes Little Kim by once a decade and a half ye shoots by at least like you know, five, three or four years you know before a Little Kim But just the uh making that like the part of the identity to the extent of how it was too Shorts identity because, for example, a rapper like Too Short his first album had a couple of sex songs on it. People dug those sex songs, right. I ied T had a similar thing where every album that he released he had a sex song on it,

and people dug those songs. It was like than you expected when you like listen to I C albums, like, oh, he always has one song that's like graphically like sexual, but the thing is too Short adopted that as his like rap given where he was like, okay, I'm the rapper who makes sex songs, and that became the defining element of two shorts music. You know what I'm saying.

I s T didn't go that route. There have been other like you know, female rappers who have done the same thing, who have made their music and it's like, oh, they'll have a reference, they'll have a shoot, or they'll have a let's talk about sex. But that's not like to define their like their overall rap character. Little Kim took that on and said, no, this is my rap character.

The name of my first album is hardcore. We're going in. Yeah. Literally, So she completely reversed the roles of sexual objectification and rap. It's every bit as wrong she and explicit as anything an email artists had done before or was doing. And it was like aggressive and the aggressive expression from a woman in hip hop on a record. Um and people, I mean I was. I feel like I was. I was probably I was like how old were you in

like two thousand nine nine? Yeah, So when Little Kim was at her peak and popular, I feel yeah, that's that's when you were nine. That's yeah, little when Little when Little Kim, when Little Kim had out like a song that was like on TRL yeah it which is this is another thing that kind of irks me out about a lot of this discourse about the Cardi b in Mega Stallion song. It's like Little Kim had a

song called how Many Licks Does It Take? That was like a hit song feature in Thong song Cisco that was like on TRL like number one, number one, you know what I mean. It was like Britney Spears Eminem in sync Little Kim, how Many Licks does It? I will never forget. I will never forget accidentally finding that song on Napster and being like scared my parents are gonna hear that I heard it, and also getting like weird feelings like that. The beginning of my sexual awakening

was how many Like smile Kim. There was a there's a little passage that I found in a article with Dave's magazine. It's an article by um context Okay, so this is this is a quote uh Tim Hall in the article Contextually. We live in a world which just saw one of the most powerful countries elect the president

accused of rape. Despite claiming to use his power to grab women by the pussy, Donald Trump has succeeded in his bid to one of the world's most influential titles, and as a result, looks set to threaten the rights of women and minorities across America. Elsewhere, a rise in queer and female led porn has sparked a new sexual revolution of sorts. Sites including Ache Love Not Porn looked at to pick the more realistic portrayal of sex that

actually appeals to the desires of women. Yet the truth remains that promiscuous women and sex workers are still routinely and institutionally discriminated against. Events such as slut Walk may be challenging prejudices towards promiscuous women, yet women's rights continue to be threatened and undermined. Ultimately, Hall continues the all encompassing message of hardcore is not rooted in any one

time period. Twenty years later, Kim remains an anomaly due to her willingness to flaunt her sexuality and flip the script on men with raw, sexually explicit lyrics. She may have been sexualized, but she was never unaware. She was more than willing to strip down, sex up and dare men to desire her. By doing so, she set an example for women. Restructed by conservative values that tell women they can either be smart or sexy, but really both, women are taught that to exploit their sexuality is to

value their mind. Kim's stuck two fingers up at this, achieving unprecedented success and critical acclaim while simultaneously flaw and take her beauty and starting men to fuck her as she wanted to be fucked. That's putting it perfectly. And I mean, just like looking back at it, it's like, you know, it's almost like she took the the caricature. It's like we've we've had the same issues for so long.

But it's like, I remember when the video Vixen was like there was just a point in hip hop when just there was a lot more awareness, and it seems to me that it was like, hey, you know, women are depicted really fucked up because it's like the old, the biggest, you know, we we have our female mcs that are out there, but it's not like there's enough

of them. And then the depiction that we see of women after that is the video Vixen, scanally clad, emotionless in most cases, girl just standing there staring either at the rapper or at the camera, like no expression, just I'm here, I'm part of the set, I'm a problem, And it's almost like little Kim took that caricature. It was like, that's gonna be my rap character. Like what happens with the video Vixen can rap. You get to

hear what the funk she's thinking. So and I feel that it created like a lame and even a sub sub genre in itself that I feel the likes of Nicki Minaj and Cardi B and Megdal Stallion are kind of following in that tradition, you know, of of that sort of I guess you can call a style, right rap style. It's hard to really put it into context. But in a pre Internet age, Little Kim was like the hip hop pin up God is sex symbol that

whole thing. At the end of the day, let's just not let's just not just act like we've been here before, you know what I'm saying, Like this, we can like our ship and we can elevate ship without forgetting about ship. You know what I'm saying, Just if something happened before some of us were born, doesn't mean that it no matter, no longer has any sort of relevancy or anything like that. You know. So let's talk about some music. So let's talk about sex released to Night to ninety one on

their Black Magic's album Salt and Pepper. Sample here, I'll take you there by the staple singers and hip hop history is made. But let's talk about dick. But now the people at home were to crowd keeps coming up. Anyhow, they discussed the song was rolling stone. It's not a song about sex. It's a song about talking about sex. But as we kind of touched on earlier with the title wet ass pussy um, even the mention alone um

of getting it on was enough to turn heads. And so the fact that this tong was titled let's talk about sex, like had people really fucked up. Salt recounts somebody saying to her dad, I used to love your daughter's music, but now she's going too far, and her dad said to him, have you listened to the song?

And then he the man came back later after listening to the song and apologized for writing it off as sexually explicit, and really it's really not sexual explicit at all, but it's really about sexual communications, which is so important. One thing I will say is that this song is surprisingly long, Like I mean, the verses are short, but there's a lot of the song where it's just minutes of them saying let's talk about sex baby over and over again and nothing else. That's you get points deductive

for that ship to jump ahead in time a little bit. Um, when we talk about Shawna's getting some head? What year was that to the and shaunas two thousand and eight? Getting some head chokes me And the hook is really the most salacious part of the whole song. The lyrics themselves are pretty standard you know, street ship, except for when she says, Hey, little Mama, can you give me a sec I got something some about as big as your next Yeah, And then um, it's cool that she

sampled for that hook to get in some head. That's two shorts voice that she sampled, so it's like she sampled in like the notorious sex rapper too short to like say, getting some head In the hook of the song, I'm going back to salt and pepper. They later on would go on to release another famous song, women Singing

at Every wedding that happens in America. Shoot not fully when I get what I finally interesting about this song, and I think it's really telling for the time because it's just like kind of prel comb big Twins verse on is the raunchiest verse on the and so it sort of speaks to what people were allowed to say then, like you know, Salton Pepper had to be like very you know, like metaphoric and like oh I want to

shoot uh. And he's in there like this Nike is coming in like I'm hitting skins for the hell of it, just for the yell I get for the smell of it, I mean, and the and the thing is, it's like you gotta remember too at a time that this is happening. There is in a way a sort of sexual revolution kind of going on in hip hop at the time where just rappers across the board or like more openly and just you know what I mean a matter of fact, he's talking about sex. It's just on the men's part.

It's manifesting itself in bitches, ain't ship of Homes and Tricks and Salt and Pepper are doing stuff like this, which I would argue is more creative. So up next, we're gonna take it back to Little Him with her song how many licks from down South you should like me to spank it? Comments? Now I think there's I feel like this is a sub genre of sexual song where they go through a list of all the national

nationalities and different types of people they fucked. Is it just me or like it's like Cold Party five by Afroman That is the like it's like a thing. It's like the nationality or the racial makeup of the sexual conquest is definitely, uh, it's like a style of doing it. But the straight up song presented as each verse is a list of sexual you know what I mean endeavors. That is the basic structure of most like porno rap sex rap songs. I knew what chick name this, I

did this, I knew a god name this? You know I mean, like, that's pretty much how they set all of it up. So even if you listen to uh what, it follows that same sort of structure. It is like, know this, I wanted that, I wanted this, I know what that I'm doing this. It's just it's just that that's the format for it. And then up next we had Little Kim's Not Tonight, Come On Not Tonight. At the time that this song came out and got I'm

aging myself so much on this guy Damn podcast. But like at the time that this song came out, like for whatever reason, there was like a movement in hip hop that motherfucker's were really trying to start that was like, Yo, real niggas don't eat pussy, We're nigga what. Yeah. I don't know this for certain, but I feel that this song isn't defined to that whole ship. No totally. Had you heard the song before this episode? No? I had? Actually yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean what I love about

the song. It's gonna it's gonna very classic R and B, slow dam type vibe. And they're like, oh yeah, what's that The bottle of the wine got the candles lit. And then she's like, I'm kicked about the because because he wouldn't eat my pussy. Like it's just like what oh this this one, this next one, I personally feel is the best objective songs. This was one of my favors when I was when it first came out, Classic Timberland production, Oops oh my by tweet featuring Yeah totally

about masturbation. But it's again like the like, shoot, it's subtle, and it's not the subtle. It's not the subtlety of it because I don't want to be misinterpreted. I don't think the subtlety of it is what makes it. It's like the point, it's like it's like lyrical ingerie, and that it leaves something to be desired. I mean, trust trust me, I know that there's a double standard. I'm

not denying the double standard. All I'm saying is that generally amongst rappers, like if a rapper is gonna make like a penis reference and it's like the most creative thing they can think of is big, you know, I don't there's there's there's not like a contingency in hip hop that matters and that's like fun. Yeah, Like I think most people would be like you couldn't think of any flyer away to say that, you know what I mean, like like that's there's no other way, Like like we

haven't heard that before millions of times before. So I think that, you know, argument, just just an argument can be made that the bluntness isn't necessarily a creative place that the song could go. In some cases, it is

not even necessarily what sounds the best. You know, sometimes less is more like for example, a part in wop that has that For me, I'm sorry, I know we're about to talk about tweet, but I just want to go back to this apart in what that has that for me is there's a part where she says, I want you to hit that dangly thing in the back of my neck. See that's what I like. That was creative to me. I was like, yeah, I dig the exactly.

That's what I'm talking about. If if wapp was like a bunch of lines like that on an MC level, I think I could funk with it a lot more and be like, oh yeah, they were going in though, you know what I'm saying, Like some of those metaphors were like real, real good. Sorry anyway, Tweet, she was kind of a one hit wonder with this one kind of yeah, I mean no, it's not even any kind of about it. I think Tweet definitely. I can't think of another Tweet song. But if you're gonna have one hit,

this is a hit. And I remember the summer that this came out. This came out the same summer as another song that we have on the list, But there was a lot of female leisurement going on the summer two thousand two, I'm telling and you tweet led the

forefront with this. This was one of those songs where everybody, like when it was one of the songs where somebody would tell you that it was about masturbation and you would be like, and then you would listen to it's like, oh ship, because it sounds like a standard R and B song. If you're just kind of passively listening to it, you know, it sounds like you know, you baby, it sounds like you know, R and B swooning, crooning fair. But when you like really listen to it, and it's like, Yo,

this is explicitly about masturbation. It's just that's like a that's something that's hard to pull off as a songwriter. So very well, it's on tweet wherever you are now, Yeah, please you'll make make a sequel or something show why are you? Next song is My Neck My Back by Kia, which NPR in two eighteen ranked as number one four on their song Century Women. I agree, I mean, like,

I mean, who am I to agree? But yeah, I would say it's definitely one of the most important rap songs because again, I'm only I'm trying to be as objective as I can, and I always approach all the music stuff from a rapper lens, and this is that It's like the song is about oral sex, and up to this point, the way that she's going in about the subject, Little Kim didn't do it like that, you

know what I'm saying. She picks a single sexual act and describes it in every detail that you possibly can throughout the entire song, Like every rhyme in the song is like related to whereas this is other sub genre. That's like I met up with Mary Jane and we fuck, and I met up with Mary Beth and wait fun he's She's like, I'm gonna talk about the next the six hours of my day. Yeah, and I mean in micro details. So you have the macro level, you've got

the micro level. And just to just to let you guys all know that everything is full circle, trust me, there was a whole contingency of the fucker's that were like, I don't think a woman should be rapping about that, and people had to point out, Oh, but um, what about the n w A song She's swallowed it. Yeah, you ain't got nothing to say now, all right, shut the funk up, you know. So the tradition continues today.

The last song that I put on here and you haven't heard this yet, is uh this Cupcake song and I wanted to I want you to check it out because this is a contemporary who, again, like we said before, is not like a small artist. So here what she's doing, and compare this to even WAP. This is Cupcake with black Jack and she's just going in with bars like that throughout the song. The video is her disheveled in a room with a bunch of half naked guys like

they all just had a fucking orgy. And ships have any creative metaphors exactly, And that's that's all I ask. It's just go in, you know, like you can do so much with rap and you can be so creative with it. We both obviously know this with the topics that we choose to talk about. So it's like, you know, nobody likes some fucking pretentious motherfucker who's like, oh, you should rap about this or what this is? What this

rap about isn't important or whatever whatever those dudes. Yeah, but there is something to be said about if it took you like five minutes to write some ship, it's gonna sound like it took you five minutes to write that ship. And there's no reason that why when you're rapping about wet ass pussy. You know I'm saying that you don't go as in on your rhymes. Put some put some sank on it. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Just hell, grease in that ship. You know me? Come

on with a metaphor. You heard what she said? She said you in that till it's looking like a hula? Who what? Well? What you got in terms of bars? Oh? I got you know. I told you I'm my iced tea fans, So I try to keep up my my one sex song album tradition going. So I got some sex verses. Let's hear you here. Okay, let's let's do some sex verses. All right? Yeah, look we get a beat? Oh shit, you know what? You know what? We don't do enough? Me and Lingua Franca are pretty good at

this rap thing. You guys should go check out our music online. You know what I'm saying. We get busy. You got a first Uh, we're waiting on reparations, were waiting on reparations. Hurry hurriya. Number heard that I was a charmer and he wasn't wrong, but he hadn't heard that. He ever got that. I'm fond of violet paranas and shipdn't mount Ronie Beach like the lines of performers, so little buy me drinks of talk. Next no one on

top and he's hardest rocks gotten don't stop. Told him me like you hate me because luft of power struggle and then when you don't get out of my house, we ain't seen it yet, coastes feeling next fucking eating flash secrets, Campus of best to pats. Don't want to keep a check, keep it wet with the fucking freaks. Wouldn't even guests need to rest some so fucking be from this convenience. Sex Yo, dog got me hanging in the net, tell me I ain't ship with a hands

around my neck. Get sick of the work. I want to go out and play because when I get you all alone, I don't know what to sakes. So my name's Dope knife baby, I'm Lingua Franca and we are waiting on reparation. See you next week. Waiting on Reparations as a production of iHeart Radio. Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.