INTERVIEW CLASSIC: Sean Waltman talks WWE without Cena, Jericho sandbagging Ryback, his biggest paydays and years, more

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trying some new things and having some of my Factor favorites. So head to Factor seventy five dot com slash Wade fifty or use code Wade fifty to get fifty percent off. That's code Wade fifty at Factor seventy five dot com slash Wade fifty to get fifty percent off. Now PW Torchen Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic, where

Wade Killer interviews one of pro Wrestling's newsmakers. Earlier this week, Sean Waltman, known as of Course says Xbox, joined me for special Killer Conversation VP exclusive podcast looking back at the career of Terry Funk, sharing some memories, and getting the wrestler's i view of what made Terry Funk so great ten years

ago. Sean Waltman joined me for a live interview with live callers and we talked for two and a half hours about a wide array of topics, including what WWE would be like without John Cena, Chris Jericho, sandbagging right back and getting Shawn's wrestler's eye perspective on that. Sandbaging is when you're not helping your opponent look good and you're making them rely on their strength to execute moves and it makes them look weak. Also, Sean talked about his biggest pay

days and his biggest earnings during his years of wrestling. Also Curtis Axel's progress. Sean was real close with Curtis's dad, Kurt Henning. Also the Triple H Wade Keller controversy from that week. Also Scott Hall, Steve Boston, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, the state of the industry, and much more. This live streamed on August twenty third, twenty thirteen, and it is Today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast Interview Classic for Saturday, August twenty sixth,

twenty twenty three. Remember when you could become a VIP member. You don't have to rely on us to present you with our great archived interviews. They are all available on demand in our archives on our ad free v IP exclusive website, so Go VIP Pwtorch dot com, slash Go vi ip. That's Pwtorch dot com slash go vi ip. All right, so here we go with this long but excellent conversation. My interview is Sean Waltman from ten years

ago, Toste. Welcome to the Pwtorch Livecast. I am wait Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty seven, pwtorch dot Com since nineteen ninety nine, Pwtorch Apps since two thousand and eight, and this show to Pwtorch Livecast and sist two thousand and nine. I am here Tuesdays and Friday's Tuesdays with Jason Powell of Pro Wrestling dot Net and Fridays with our weekly interview. But this show was on the air five or six

days a week, Monday through Friday. You can find up at pwtorch livecast dot com. That is the u r L. That is a link to find our show live or on demand if you can't listen live Pwtorch Live Podcast dot com. And we are here five days a week, Monday through Friday, every week and on Sundays after TNA and WWWE pay per views and our guest here on interview Friday Today, Friday, August twenty third, twenty thirteen is Sean Waltman, also known as XPOC and six and the Lightning Kid back

in the day. All Right, and Sean, are you there? Yes? I am. I think we've maybe maybe gotten ourselves, both you and I connected and on the air take three or take four? What a miracle. I'm gonna ask the chat room if we are live and if they can hear us, and they're saying yes, So that is good. Welcome to the show, Sean, welcome back. Oh thanks, it's always good. It's always good to join you. It's absolutely good to have you on the

show. We've always good to talk to all your listeners. All were educated listeners, well most of them. Well there's a couple. There's a couple. Which ones aren't the ones that disagree with you know, the ones who asked the same questions every week or you know, well, I don't know. You know what I'll do, I'll just point them out as they call. Okay, how's that? Okay? So let's start out first of ball, real quick, what's well, not real quick, but what's happening?

What's happening with you these days? Keeping out of trouble man. You know obviously you know the injury, uh that that I sustained, Uh, you know in Minneapolis there for Jerry Jerry's retirement match put me out of commission for several months, and so you know, uh, things have been slow for

for the last couple of months. But starting like the thirty first, Uh, things are I'm gonna be busy, like like like I'm gonna be really busy with appearances or matches both both both on the thirty first quorn Pasadena, which is a basically Houston, Texas It's Clutch City Promotions, I think is the name of the group, but uh, it's Kevin Scott and I uh the Wolfpack, uh headline and uh and and a whole cast of characters like you know, basically who's who of guys you know on the on the convention

circuit sou and I think they might even be having a match later in the night, I don't know. But and then you know, I got tons of stuff. I mean, I got a new story. Like here's the thing, wait is every time I come on your show, I always just come on just you know, because I love talking wrestling, and I never I never really have anything to plug, but but uh, nWo wolfpac dot com actually uh has some has some stuff up if anybody's uh wants to support

the cause. And nWo wolfpack dot com. Yeah cool. And have you uh have you been hanging out with at WW developmental at all keeping an eye on things or have you been busy with other stuff or actually I haven't even been to the new facility yet. Wow, And that was that. And I was just in Philly for for money in the bank, and uh, you know, a hunter was even telling me, Hey, I'm sorry. You know I've been meaning to get you, get you over there, and

just uh, you know, you know how it is. Yeah, yeah, they're busy and uh you know, I'm not the most important thing on their list. So yeah, yeah, I can't understand why, Well what I want to do and I got a million things I can talk to you about, but we can save some of that for the BIP after shure what I'd like to do some sweet have colors on hold who have been patiently on hold as we worked through our technical issues. Our conference line is after two

years. It's never not worked like that, And I'm gonna not blame you. Sean and I'm not gonna blame me even though there's a ninety nine percent chance it's your fault for my fault, and I usually it's my fault. Well, I'm not I'm not distributing that ninety nine percent publicly. I'm just saying between us it's probably ninety I ever said, but there's a chance the conference line was the problem too, It's not. It wouldn't be the first time ever. So we did leave our callers on hold for a while,

so a little quicker than normal. I want to move to them and see what they have to say. Vipears, if you're on hold, you know what to do to move to the front of the line. We talk about it on the VP audio shows. So do that. And one person who did that was Brian calling from Minneapolis from Eric nine five two. Yeah homeboys, Yeah, Brian, what if? Please? Uh tell us what's city? And many in the Mineapolis Saint Paul area you're from? I am from

Bloomington, home of high voltage radio. You can I teams it and the Kennedy Eagles, Wow, right down the street from you. Wade. Yeah of my old my old stopping groups. Yeah yeah, friend, sorry to talk over you speak up just a little bit, where a more trouble than usual hearing you? All right? Am I better now? Yeah? Yeah? Okay? Cool? Uh two quick questions toyon and I'll let you kind of go over them. You were speaking about Jerry Lynn, and Jerry's one

of my favorite wrestlers. I got to see him so many times in ECW take on some of his uh some patriots that were more his style, and Sean wrestled people that so much worn't his style. More often. He'd be in the sixth man tag versus macho and I would never turn down an ultimost

sixth match, but I didn't get it often. So what's the difference between you and Jerry that landed two guys in different spots at the end of your career and throughout you know, you guys are considered counterparts by many, especially in your early part of your careers. And then question do you want me to answer that the second part? That's a great question too, by the way, I think, Uh, there is a bit of difference in our styles, uh, because I mean we worked so good together, you know,

Uh, I mean I can't even explain to you. It's hard to explain to somebody that's not that's not a professional wrestler. Like what it's like when you get in there with somebody and you just you just feel like, uh, the magic right away, Like I mean you just know, I mean you can just feel the chemistry and uh. And we were on the same page and we were both welling to put you know, put it all out there for the people. I mean, I mean, Wake can vouch

for it. I mean he's been he's been to some of these shows that we worked in back in the day where we beat the live in hell out each other, like, you know, uh, for the people, and and just you know, I think a lot of it. I Mean, the I'm gathering what you're asking me is like, how come like uh uh, I I'd be you know, I was able to become more quote unquote successful or whatever. I wasn't I mean in that way somewhat goshan somewhat more

successful. But for me, it was just the career paths you never obtained like that. Jerry, Jerry don't have enough asshole. That's the bottom line is Jerry Jerry doesn't have enough asshole on him. He's way too nice of a guy. And sometimes you got to be an asshole, you know. And uh and and and I mean it's a it's it's a it's an industry bowl of uh some really good people and some are really bad people and some

real dicks. And I learned that firsthand. Yeah, you know. And so I just uh and and plus I you know, I was fortunate enough to be aligned with with some very powerful friends, you know. I mean, the five of us stuck together like uh, like super I mean you couldn't you know, you couldn't you couldn't you know, you couldn't get in between us. So you know, but uh, style wise, I I

I know Jerry, Jerry's uh, I don't know. I always thought he was a harder worker than me, to be honest with you, I always thought he was like where where I was looking to be more efficient, Like he wasn't afraid to do to do more, you know. And I'm not saying I'm not I'm not calling myself lazy. I'm just saying, you know, uh, you know, I I don't know what I'm trying to say. You wrestled like w W E style, and that's fine. I don't

it's marked you for it. Yeah, it's it's it's hard to explain sometimes you know, to to to the to the l a person. But hopefully I did an okay job. You know. It was that charing from your perspective acceptable, especially from someone who's been around is in the industry so long

as you have. Which leads me to my second question, which is, uh, pick some wrestlers that you didn't get to work programs with or ever, or maybe just short ones in your prime And as a caveat, I'd like to throw on some current people in developmental like a Leo Krueger and such, who you'd like to work with in your prime today in their primer, but you know what I mean, together in your primes. Who would you like? Yeah? We Krueger, Yeah, Leo Krueger has been on my

list for a while now, for a way over a year. He's been on my Uh keep an eye out for this guy list him. You know. Uh, I only had I only had the pleasure of working with Daniel Bryan twice. Once was at the Aoki Dojo in Santa Monica, California, at a time when I was still in a relationship with China and I was doing a lot of drugs in no shape to be in the ring, and we still had a hell of a match. And uh the second one,

I just blew my knee out completely and was barely able to walk. And uh, but I couldn't take time off like I was down in Mexico and we had a tour of Australia and I was I was fortunate enough to work with Bryan, with Daniel Bryan over and uh and in Perth, Perth, Australia, And in spite of the fact that I could barely walk, like good to help a match actually and it was, it was, it was, it was, it was great and uh, Daniel Brian even actually said

I was the first guy that he ever worked with that uh, that would like work a hole like like like when like when he had me in a head box, like I would come up out of it into a top wrist lock, but I would really work it and get the people behind me and and and you know, and and it was surprising to him how easy, like like, oh wow, that was simple, you know, I mean you always did effectively though, was you know, getting smaller guys you know

in WWFF at the time, and how to use that kind of workability to get yourself more of it, especially in like your Cuban razor, you know, I mean, because I believe it as a kid, this little guy is gonna take down Goliath. And my golly, you did it. I went crazy. Yeah. Yeah, And Vince was real smart on how he used me, because like he still he still had me do jobs, he still had me lose. And and at the time I didn't understand it,

but it was for a good reason, you know. You know, if if all of a sudden, I'm beating everybody who I'm not, I'm not really much of an underdog, then you know, so I even though it for Sunday hurt me in terms of Daniel Bryan in that aspect, yeah, yeah, and and and and try to look at it this way. That

means it worked. Yes, I know. That means it works because even though even though you got even though uh, the fans are are are smarter today and they're hip to you know that it's a work and this and that like it's still pissed that it's still pissed Daniel Bryan fans off, you know. And uh and even Monday when they left him laying, Uh, I thought that was fantastic. You know. I mean, yeah, there's some holes in it, like yeah, we could pick certain things apart about it,

but overall I thought that was great. I thought that was great for for for Brian, Yeah, great match for both him, Yeah, Daniel, Bryan and John seen as well as the cmpung Frock Weasner match that match with absolutely, I dare say I love this. I watched it again. Well. Thank you so much, Sean. It was a pleasure talking at other people, talk to you and ask you questions and look forward to what's that next time I'm in Minnesota. Hope you come up to see me.

I will come up to see you. We'd love to have you on High Voltage Radio sometime. Absolutely, Sean, thank you and you guys have a good at rest of the lidcast. Thanks both, Thanks Brian, goodar from you. Thank you for subscribing to the Waight Keller Pro Wrestling podcast and Waight Keller Pro Wrestling post shows. Don't forget we got a whole lineup of other shows called the PW Torch Daily Casts. It's free. Just search p W

Torch in your podcast. Stapp a different show on a different topic throughout the week, including shows dedicated to a e w n X, t MM, A Ring of Honor, and more. Just search p W Torch in your podcast stapp or check out links to the latest shows at our main website pwtorch dot com. Well off the VFT members you know, as always, uh, let us know when you're on hold and Sean. We got a lot

of email questions too. I know some people listening live might not be able to call because there at work, or you know whatever, any number of reasons. Yeah, I retweeted your tweet earlier, so I'm I imagine you've got a few that you are all yeah, yeah, And we've been getting them all week and I've gone through them and picked out some good ones.

But if you do want to send in a question right now during the show, or just a topic you want Sean to talk about, either here live or on the VP after show is always on emails, indicate if you are a v T member. We always prioritize your questions and often save the best ones for the VP after show. Send that question to pwtorch Livecast at gmail dot com. Pwtorch Livecast at gmail dot com. I'm before i go next call, I'm going to work in an email question. This is from Cody.

He says, I know Xbox teams with ten years ago. Did you have a good relationship with Glen Jacobs? What do you think about his career up to this point? Are there any road or locker room stories you could share about the Big Red Machine? Thanks Cody from Iowa. Yeah. Sure, I had a fantastic relationship with Glenn. First of all, Uh, we've both come from the same dojo, from the we both have the same maestro, the great Malenko, and uh, you can't get you can't get

much better than that. When uh, when you talk about teaching and uh and you know, learning from somebody. So uh so we already had that in common. And when when they put us together, I mean, mind you, we got along uh really good in general. But when they put us together, I uh, I just I uh I loved it. Man. I loved having him as as a partner. And uh, he's he's a real he's a quiet guy, you know, like and and he doesn't

like to rock the boat. And so you know, they would ask they would want to do things, and they would suggest things like you know, uh that that weren't fitting for for Kane to do. And like he's did not rock the boat type of guy. And I am and so like I would be like, no, Kane's not doing that, you know, and that was why, that was why it you know, he didn't speak for

such a long time, which was which was a good thing. Uh and uh, you know, and also he lost a little bit of weight for for for a while, and some of the agents slash producers were like, well he's not that big anymore. I'm like, it doesn't matter. He's still came. Everybody still has to sell form the same and the people react accordingly. And uh and I was right, So I I just I see

him, I see like I saw the team, you know. Uh, I don't know what they called the team again, Hell yeah, team hell yeah, hell no, or something with Brian team hell it's a team hell no, I think. But I always get these mixed up. Yeah.

Well, I mean it's hard not to compare the two, you know, it's hard not it's hard not to compare Kane and I and and and and Darie O'Brien and Kane and I thought both our team and and their team are both equally great, very cool and fresh stories go like he he was a world champion at one point and they still had him sitting and coach and he

was so pissed off one time. Uh he actually ripped the end off off of the seat and in the in the airplane and uh and uh I actually used that line to him too, I said, I said, Glenn, you know, sometimes you got to have a little asshole and you you know, and uh, you guys too, like I'm like, your world champion, you're a world champion and your your main inventor here like and I even said to some the higher up, So I'm like, come on, man, just because the guys you know, uh uh plays Paul you know,

don't do him like that. Man, he needs to be in first class. He's six foot ten for crying out loud. Yeah, all right, uh the let me see here, okay, cool, just making sure everything's working here, Let's go to let's go to another phone call. I think we covered the Glen Jacobs situation, although I did want to ask is he Glen Jacob's a big show? Paul White and Mark Henry are the most tenured wrestlers who still go out on the road. Which of those guys is is

a locker room leader? And in what way are they a locker room leader from what from what you've seen develop over the years. I know you're not on the road right now, but I think you're plugged in enough to kind of knows those three personalities because you've been around so long. Man, it's

hard. It's hard to say because the guys don't The camaraderie isn't the same as it was when I was full time there, you know, And I've talked about this before, but you know, everybody has their own bus now, and if they're not you know, if they have downtime, they're usually

chilling in their bus. And you know, there's not you don't see a lot of locker room situations where everybody's in the locker room just chilling and bullshitting with each other and and you know, having a good time and friendly ribs and you know, all that the kind of stuff that builds camaraderie really, you know amongst your car weeks. Yeah, that's being said, like uh uh, don't believe it or not? Mark Henry, Uh, the Big Show, I'd have to say, are probably a tie for that. Yeah.

And Glenn is more more laid back or or interested introverted. Yeah, yeah, yeah, except for like, uh, you know he uh he's politically active and uh you know when he when he's when he speaks uh uh you know on politics, he's not introverted at all. Yeah. And about libertarian absolutely absolutely, much like myself. Yep, C on Punk on Monday. I'm gonna ask my own question and then we'll go back to phone lines. The phone number, by the way, six four six seven two one

ninety two eight. If you're on hold, hold tight, got several of you on hold, living on hold a while. But a quick question on CM punk. He got to the ring day after Summer Slam. A guy in the crowd shout something and then he turns and and just focuses on that guy, called him a fat boy, challenges them to come in the ring.

Uh you saw that right Monday, of course. Did that ring to you as something that when you're watching it live, did you think, oh, that's a plant, it was part of the script, or do you think, oh, punks in a mood or he went out there looking for someone? And you know what, what was your take on that situation in terms of how it came about? And also is that something you think management liked the way it was handled. I I it wasn't a plan. I im I'd almost bet my life it was. It wasn't a planned Yeah.

It says that's too much. That's too much. We're being put into something so insignificant, you know what I mean. Yeah. Uh As far as his actions, I don't have a problem with it whatsoever. It's just like when you go, uh see a comedian and uh if you if you, if you choose to called the comedian, you get you know, and he lamb based, sit, you get what you got coming to you? Yeah, you paid and he even said you paid your price for your ticket.

So you have the right to to boom me. But you know, at the same time he has the right to uh rak him over the coals too. Is that is that a Is that a move that top level made? Event? Heels? Do? I mean? I just don't think it's usually not, Yeah, usually not. But honestly, like he was, I think that, you know the nature of of the the promo he was cutting and the ray emotion, I think that I think that it was fine. Yeah, And I'm of mixed feelings on it, you know, because I

don't have a strong feeling. I have a wide range of conflicting feelings, because when he did that, it was novel because you don't see that a lot, you know, you can see that happen. And to what you just said, John, it fit the mood of the moment, the mood that he was in he lost to Lessener. He's still mad at Hayman,

and you could just we've all been there. We've all been in that mode where it just took one trigger in somebody who isn't the person at falls gets all the stress built up inside of us unleashed at them, you know. And and you know, Eric Bischoff used to joke that Terry Taylor was the guy who no matter if Eric had a bad day, it would all get let let loose on Terry Taylor. Yeah, for Terry, he used to take the print from everybody. Oh, Scott Scott Hall used to be fish

brutal on Terry sometimes, yep, yep. And so I get that, And it worked in the sense that the crowd went nuts. That's our CM punk. He's chewing out that fan and you know, it's like its fist punk characters. So I agree with all I for all those reasons. I don't have a strong opinion against it. But I have my reservations, which is, like you said, making a lot of spending a lot of time on something that maybe didn't deserve it. And two, should he be challenging

a fan to enter the ring when you open that door? I just think as a corporation and legally, what if the fan and stepped over the railing? What then then what? You know, what if well, then you have to beat their ass yea or hopefully hope you know, Hope it's scary,

you know, gets in the middle of it. Yeah, I've had shit like that backfire on me. Ye And you know, you go back to see him Punk when he swung his arm backwards at a fan who he thought was hitting him on the back when he was doing a promo in the crowd, and then he ended up hitting the wrong fan. You know, Punk has a temper of some type, and you know, and but I don't know. He might have gone out there with the idea being I'm gonna find a fan who's giving me hard time, and this is what I have

in mind. It's not scripted, but highly I highly doubt it. Yeah, yeah, highly doubt it. And as far as management, like, uh, they might have said something to him, but I doubt that too, really, I doubt it. Yeah, I mean I think the piece of business was was good enough that uh that they you know that that that wasn't quite that was that wasn't half you know, Yeah, it was big for too. We forgot about that. And bus. I'm sure that guy

was drilled. I mean, that guy had something something to talk about for the rest of his life. Oh, absolutely, yeah, I don't it's I don't think the fan has any I'm sure that made the fan's day.

Absolutely yeah. I mean I saw some people's Twitter comments, you know, oh that's bs and you know, I just like, you know, like not you know, I told you you don't get it, and and you get to go to a show and the only I mean, I would disagree a little bit in terms of it being a perfect analogy between stand up comedy and wrestling, because wrestling is meant to be your cheer, your boo. It's established with sena you're you're there to engage and you're encouraged to boo and

heckle and cheer and jeer and whatever. And I thought punk came across even though across pop for it. I think there's a level of thin skinness that said, look at what John Cena has taken for the past eight years, and Punk gets one guy in row three heckling. I mean, he loses it. It's like thinking, you know, get a little tougher than not everybody's gonna love use Sam Punk. And I thought that was a potential backlash if it seemed like he couldn't handle even a heckler. But I but I

get the circumstance. The day after Lessner, I think fans like that he tore into the guy. Heh, here's a ding too, see him Punk. In my opinion, he's not a baby face. He's see him Punk, right, So he can be booked with Rock Lessner, he can be booked with John Cena. He could be booked you know, yeah whoever, I think the great thing about c him Punk is that he doesn't change, don't matter which no matter whether he's used as a heel or a face.

But what you don't like about Punk is that he's not a thin skinned woos who's going to freak out anytime somebody dares to question his perfect his perfectness. And that's and that came across like, oh, how dare you boo me, I'm the great Sam Punk. You know, there's there's a chance of that. It's like everybody gets tackled a little bit, but not everybody completely has a meltdown like Punk, And I think there's a danger for his care.

He's somebody who I think is cool and fans like him because he's cool, and maybe brushing that off or not for un attention to it makes more sense than letting some average do in the crowd get to him and then picking on him for his weight, which you know, it's just I don't know, it's just I, like I said, I got mixed feelings. Ultimately, the crowd pop huge for it, so that's kind of the verdict.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah. VP sale Alert we're running a sale going into all in and all out as we conclude the summer, and you can get nine dollars off any v IP subscription, which brings a one month subscription down to just ninety nine cents. Just go to Pwtorch dot com, slash Go vi Ip choose a traditional VFP membership, So don't do a Patreon membership because a coupon code does not work on Patreon, and you have a choice between three coupon codes. If you think MJF is going to come

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the ads and plugs removed and a ton of other content. And that also includes my forty minute Keller conversation VAP exclusive with Sean Waltman this week talking about Terry Funk, who he wrestled ten years ago, by the way, at an indie show and also was on shows with him early in his career and grew up a fan of his. So again, that's Pwtorch dot com slash go vi ip and then enter coupon code m jaff if you think he's turning heel, Cole if you think he's turning heel, or friends if you think

they stay friends. All right, look to the coline I've promised and go to Erico three one nine next three one nine takes a colin. Please state your name and where you're from. This is Andrew from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Andrew, Thanks Colin. What have you got? Did you say Xandrew? Andrew? Andrew, Andrew? What's up? Maham? Now? Mind? I've called you like this is like the fifth time we should like hang

out sometimes, like call me like every one nine just season. Oh that's right, because we were talking about how NW has sold out pay per view was from there. Yeah, yeah, pretty cool. I got a question. The w WS talked about you being in the Hall of Fame. With DX. Triple HS right now is not in the Hall of Fame. Do you think it would make sense if next year Triple H is inducted into d X and also inducted by himself, because even when he's by himself, he's

going to talk about d X anyways. So I was thinking, like, what if DX can be inducted and then later that night he can just do his own thing. Uh, that's I'd have to say, you know, I think he deserves to be uh, to be inducted on his own first, you know, I mean that's you know, Uh that that means I have to wait an extra you know, however long if I'm inducted as a as a group for d X, but I could also be inducted uh with MWO, which might be a little harder since there was so many people they

put in MWO. Uh, I don't know. I mean, Uh, Paul deserves it. He deserves his own night. He and UH and I'm and I'm fantastic come first, doesn't If you want your first Hall of Fame to be for your singles career, and then later a year or two three, whatever, you know, then then you come in, go in as a group absolutely. Yeah, and and you might get inducted as a singles wrestler first before d X or I and and I can't. I mean I might be just because it's me and you know, and that I might.

This might come across, you know, wrong to some people. But I think my career as a singles uh. If you look at all the other inductees, uh since the Hall of Fame was started. I I think I can. I could be inducted on my my merits as a singles You're at least Coco beware. Thanks Andrew, What have you got for us anything? I got another question? Okay, I got one more question. Let's say that you were at home and you were streaming in a pay per view.

How would Triple H spiel if you came to your house and saw you not order the pay per view? Like, would that ruin anything? Steal it? You mean, yeah, yeah, I just watch it. He just comes to your house and you're on in your laptop being hey, I'm watching backlash. I don't think he would. I don't think you can make walboards three out of it, but it probably think it was kind of lame. He might he might hand you some money and go you must need money,

right, Yeah, yeah, exactly. Help brother. If you got the money to do something legally and legit, and there's out you do that way, that's just that's you know, Yeah, that's lame as hell many honestly,

if you can afford it's it's really lame to be uh. You know the shop if the shopkeeper in a in a business goes into the back to look for some merchandise for you, when you start loading your pockets with craft and you feel good about it, you know, that's what you're doing when you're taking a pirate feet because you're taking I mean, there's all kinds of rationalizations and people have them and everybody makes their own decisions, but you know,

when you're stealing, you're stealing, and you can rationalize it ever you want, but there's a price. Take good on it, and guys like you, Sean, but give so much for that. And the more money

the pay per view makes, the more money the wrestlers make. Yeah, it's not yeah, I mean, i it's it's hard for for the average person to to imagine just what goes them to, uh to putting to putting a live raw on, let alone a pay per view the countless number of semi trucks, uh, the countless uh number of of uh people that they

have uh working for them that make that thing happen. Uh. You know, the preparation that goes into it, from from the writers to uh to to the boys, you know, the performers, and uh it's it's stealing, you know, I mean, it's I can I can't even begin to imagine how how much money is lost uh due to piracy, you know, of that nature. Money in the bank came in under two hundred thousand buys.

I bet, I bet there were hundreds of thousands of people watching pirate feeds, you know, and yep, and uh in that you know, I mean, every little thing counts. I mean, I don't want to get into a lecture for people. And there's worse things in the world and all that, but it's you know, you're you're wrestler. You know how much of a difference it makes your pocketbook if everybody who could afford it paid for instead of stealing it. It makes a real difference for the price you

pay and and and the sacrifice you made. Not you know, there's a lot of wrestlers were on around their kids growing up as much as they'd like and having all kinds of injuries and all kinds of sacrifices, and every fan who who who goes legit watches it on their TV on and I Death on big screen and gets the full experience but pays for it. It's a fair exchange with what wrestlers go through. But like I said, get through preachy because some people hate when we do this. But no, bro, I

mean you know, yeah, he asks the question, so exactly. Anyway, Andrew, thanks for the call. Yeah, thanks, funny, Yeah, you're welcome. Hopefully Andrew's not sheepishly walking away from the Uh No, I'm sure Andrew's on the up and up on everything. Yeah, I mean too, wink wink. Yeah, all right, next up, I'm gonna bounce back and forth. Email the phone call. Just be sure to emails

here because I did hype it all week. Chris from Warner Robbins Georgia says, do you guys think mentioning Daniel Brand's size is a way of the come but he owning it, much like how music manager or what music managers will have clients with something that might be seen as a deficiency by others, but they pointed out first to take away that power from naysayers, basically like saying, hey, this might be this blank, but he beat seen it and

he can beat anybody here. And I'll add to that, Sean. I think it was Robert Kennedy going way back to the sixties who said the policy for politicians should be hanging a lantern on your problems. In other words, don't let somebody else point out your problem. You know, your deficiency or shortcoming. Hang a lantern on it. And this was not a Wyatt family reference, but shine a light on it and make sure everybody sees it before

someone else points it out. Is that what ww's doing or does this have to do more with bensick Man and Triple H and the culture of WWE over the years, feeling kind of insecure having a guy as short as Daniel Bryan be their quote top guy. I just think they're pointing out the obvious.

Yeah, you know, I mean, that's I think I think to be foolish to think that people don't look at those two guys standing across from each other and uh and not think about the size difference that being said, Like, I mean, that's like, okay, what you were saying about Robert Kennedy, Uh, you know, saying, you know, shine a lantern on your problems. I I like to live by that. By that, you know, by that, I I think it's a good I think it's I think it's a good thing. But is calling him a little troll?

Who who needs to start? Who needs to learn to lift weights? Daniel Brian walks down the street, any average street. He's the most muscular guy walking down the street, including when he's walking past most gyms and most health loves this guy. You know, he's a he's a weightlifter by any other

standard. Sure. And so when you do that and call him a troll and all these things, I think collectively, there's there's such a thing of shining lantern on your problems, and then there's a you know, and then they're just holding a microscope up to it and shining a spotlight on it and announcing it constantly. It did seem weird to me, like it almost was apologizing that the best guy they've got is so small. But then again, it turns out they're all heels, and maybe that helps rally that. Yeah,

yeah, I look, I look at it completely different. I think that's that's where, that's how, that's where you have to go now in this day and age to be an effective heel. You know, I mean, the old stuff, the old fagg of tricks doesn't work anymo anymore, you know. And and look look it pissed me off. And I'm you know, I'm in the industry. Yeah, So I think I think it

worked now and I think I think it does work. I mean I was, I was that you know a lot of the stuff that that that Paul said, you know in that last segment, it got under my skin, it really did. You know. I want to I want to challenge challenge you a little bit on the the you're saying. It's just obviously have to point it out. You know, Daniel Bryan standing opposite of of John Cena. Is there a bigger size difference between Brian and Sina or cum Punk and

brock Lesner overall, or is it relatively comparable. I think there's a bigger size difference between between Brian and and Seen. I probably yeah, it's and I and I and I kind of agree because because Punk is is thin by almost all wrestling standards, thinner than Daniel Bryan. But he's tall, but Brock is a beast. I mean, yeah, that's in her nickname. But nobody ever talks about CM punk having thin arms and he needs to hit the gym. You don't have Trip Blache take and swipes at him like he

did. Chris Masters of Suits doesn't fit you anymore. It's fallen off you. Like Punk seems immune from that, and I think it helps Punk to not every week at people pointing out that this guy is so rail thin relative to every other top guy who's come along and held a world title. Right, yeah, And I mean look, I mean we've already been down that really with him. I mean, you don't need to keep doing it. He I you know, I mean he's got he's one of the top three

merchandise sellers. Yeah, which that that right there, that to to management, that that is is is is huge. Yeah. Yeah, you're talking about punk punk. Yeah, that's what I thought and though too, you know, and and and I thought that, you know, the the the promo that Brock Luster cut on on Daniel, the teleprom t promo, which I thought was great. But yeah, I'm I'm uh, I'm pretty sure that Paul Hayman had a lot had a lot of input in Matt. Yeah.

And and that's a great thing that Paul Hayman makes Brock, Welshner and w Wade. I mean you've seen his career from the beginning too, or you know, he is absolutely unbelievably good right now. Yeah, yeah, totally. And you know what, I'm happy to say that, like you know, him and I we weren't we weren't always you know, on the same side of the tracks, if you know what I mean. Uh and uh uh I'm happy to say we have a good relationship relationship now and uh,

I have a lot of good, good talks with Paul. And he's he's uh, he's he's a change guy too, man. I mean he's

a father now and stuff. But back to the back to there's just like you know, Punk doesn't need a mouthpiece, right and and so like I thought it was I thought it was it was great that that they brought Paul in to be to be uh Brock's mouthpiece because at first when Brock got in got in there and they were doing that contract signing and and they gave Brock to Mike, I was like I was texted, I was on on my phone text and uh, texting my buddy, I'm like, don't ever give

him a live mike again like that, you know, I mean, because really that could have killed it. Yes, you know, it really could have. But it was just rambling and all that. But like with with Paul Hayman, brock Lessner's awesome commodity happened ww right now with Paul Hayman. Yeah, so I know, I I know I veered off the subject here,

but we were talking about, you know, the size difference. Yeah, you know between You're a good person to ask because I mean you were you were you were head good height, but you were thinner obviously the most wrestlers too, and and you you know, you faced it to a certain extent. And yeah, so I wanted your perspective. It is more than most people you can see, And I'll take height. I'll take height over over size, like any day of the week. Yeah, any day of

the week. Yeah, I can always I can always pack on you know, so uh the pounds of muscle, you you know, unless you put the Herman monsters on, you mean, the Chris Jerichos. Yeah, unless you do that, you're not gonna get any taller. Yeah, yeah, I I I shouldn't take on Chris like that. It's but I mean, he's must It's true though, I mean, it's true, and he's over. I mean he wrestles on his tiptoes. He wrestled his entire w w E career on his tiptoes. That's why he gets so much. He at

first was because people didn't realize that. Yeah, you know, and and he was. He was kind of a little bit clumsy. Yep, I need potato, guys, and he hurt him. Yeah, you know, but yeah, I said something. I mean, it's, you know, just pulling the curtain back a little bit. But you know, Steve Boston and Rick Flair and Steve Boston's podcast are talking about blazing and where you hide a razor blade. So I guess everything's open now. If you got those

two guys talking openly about that. Sure, yeah you know, but but yeah, I mean it's it's like, you know, Jericho did what he had to do to make up that difference. But you're right, a tether a pack on some weight. So but the thing is is, you know, w wat you know Vince in Triple HS Takekead for size fiends, But when you look at Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benwa, Daniel Brien and in different

ways seem punk. I mean there are, and there's a lot of exceptions to the first place they look, which is the Batistas and the Rybacks, and Rybak right now is essentially a mid carter and Daniel Brownson made an enter and you know that that shows something else that's going into evaluating who gets the main events than just being massive. Yeah, I invite you to email the show with feedback or questions or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast

at pewtorch dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us on Twitter at pw torch and follow me at the Wade Keller. That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller. I'm actually I'm actually kind of a fan of right Back. I mean, I mean, he has his uh, there's obviously there's you know, he has his his faults, No, no, no doubt about

it. But I'll be honest with you, and I like Chris Jericho, like I'm a huge fan and everything, but I think you sambag right Back at money in the bank. Really, yeah, and why would he do that? What? What? Whe w? Why? I think he's stick of doing jobs if I do guess, yeah, yeah, and and is that something? I mean, come on, right back, schoolboy, come on, yeah, yeah, you know, and then he shoots him across.

He shoots him from corner to corner and just like just doesn't even take a step out, shoot dry back to the other corner and right backs got a fucking tiptoe across the across the ring to the other. I mean, but that's something that's that's something Jericho has done his whole career though, too. I mean, yeah, come on, that's that's Those are a little those are little tricks that that green guys don't realize are being pulled brown him. Yeah, yeah, no, I it's a good observation. I certainly

wouldn't I certainly wouldn't disagree with that. And I think that actually crossed my mind a little bit watching that too. But I thought, Jerry, I mean, Jericho says all the right things publicly. You know, he's there to put guys over and he's honored to do it. And he helped make Fon Dongo and he helped make right back. But if he doesn't really believe that, that's one way of I guess, making himself feel better. Well, I think and I think he just figured, well, like I put

all these guys over, how about the bone in? You know, at least in between guys you want me to put over? Do you think management notices that kind of thing? Or do you think you all right? Guarantee you hunter? I'm noticed too? Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right? Cool? Does he does? I mean? Look at the match yeah with RVD the next night, I don't even I don't even remember. It had hell of a match, but right in the middle one to drink? Oh gotcha? Yep, yep, makes sense. All right, Let's let's

jump to another phone call here. Let's go to four oh one. Next, four h one. Thanks for holding, we stay your name and where you're from? Eric Island? Hey? Eric, thanks for calling. What have you got for Sean? Oh? First of all, holy crap, I can't believe him. On Welcome to show, Welcome, thank you, hey we got thank you for having me on the call on and congratulations and get w e comments from Triple this week? Yeah, but uh it lads

to have Triple name drop you I'll take it. I'll take great line dot com set you know, put put my you know, clarification in there and a link to my longer explanation. I was totally fine with it. I mean, you know, we haven't gotten into it yet on the show, but I was on with James Caldwell yesterday and went over it. You know, it was just just triple h doing remembering a story you know, wrong enough to make me look bad, but you know, it was twenty years

ago. I don't think he had malice in mind, althoughways trying to make me look bad, but you know, yeahlicious person, Yeah, yeah, it is awesome, Sean. By the way, I think it would be the stable of the wach community. That's awesome. You know much for you've done great. You've been awesome listening to UH, including a I jacking that Scott Hall's interviews a couple of months back. It was so great to UH. It was a great interview to start, but you completely added to it.

It's very fun to listen to. By the way, I had a good time listening to it, and I positive to take too long. But since you guys brought that Daniel Brien's knee snatched at the face for finish was incredible, Like the knee it is such hard hitting, effective and a basic move we're talking about. No, yeah, we just like've seen U set

up boom need in the face one. I couldn't believe it, you know, and I thought that was a great like surprise finish like it was just amazing to be honest with you, and uh, I agree with you, Sewan see him punk is not a beauge chase. Uh. He doesn't look like a skinny wolverine, but he's acting on a big, big face.

But my question is sewn to you, it's actually not redd maybe personal, but I heard an interview with Lead before that you had Chris smoking, and I was curious to see, oh cigarette, Oh yeah, yeah, okay, reason no, that's often books. But as far as like a cigarette's go, I just want to know how it went and if you still don't smoke, and if what program is any uh that you did it, or if you just had a mental attitude to say just no and not by cigarettes.

It's fine because I really was like, uh, I mean you were coming up today and I was waiting to, like, you know, ask you like a besting reading question. But I bought a pack of cigarette's like an idiot. But I thought, you know, back you mentioned that you Chris smoking. I just want to find out how it went. Well. It was just one of those things. Man, Here's it's like you you're just not You're not gonna quit anything until you want to. I mean,

that's all that's all I was to it. And I just got sick it. Man. I got sick of just smoking one cigarette after another. I got sick of stinking the high heaven, you know. I got sick of women being turned off by me smelling like cigarettes. I got sick of spending hundreds of dollars a week on smoking freaking cigarettes. I mean, and and I just one day just quit buying them. And and I and uh, you know, I just something else, something else got me distracted to where

where I didn't even think of it. Son, you wanted to sound better on the live cast. That's really your main motivating. That's why what's smoking weed? Yeah? But there's a but there's a really good book that uh that Wade could tell you the name of uh that that if you're really having a hard time quitting smoking, a Wade could tell you the name of the book, and I've heard nothing but good about it. Yeah you can. You can look it up. It's called The Easy Way by Alan Carr.

It's sold through Amazon. It's got one of the highest ratings of any book sold on Amazon. And the review I don't have to say anything, just read the reviews from people who read the book. I read it because I had some loved I haven't been a cigarette smoker, but I have what I had loved ones who were and wanted to you know, I'd heard good things about it, and I wanted to read the book instead of just you know, handing it to them blindly. I read it and I didn't hop but

work or not. But I thought it was really well done. It's it's it's hard to describe why quote a book would work. It's like shot said, you have to be ready and no one preaching you or showing you pictures of lungs, you know, ugly, you know, lung that's not gonna that's not gonna do it. That's not that's the moment. Yeah, that's not enough. And this book and I don't want to give it away because

I would do a bad job. It's like you say, yeah, you know, I'm really see that you read a book that eat that's awesome. Yeah, and I was. I was blown away by it. And all I can say, though, is when people who were smokers, who who wanted to quit but didn't know how, and they read that book, they excitedly as the book instructed, decided when they were gonna have their last cigarette, and for most people, it wasn't until they read the last page of

the book. Because that's what Alan Carr recommends is keep smoking during every chapter of this book. Don't quit until you get to the last page, because he sets you up for success. And people they read that last page, they went outside, they had their last smoke, and boom. Almost everybody who read that that I know, and every it just was kind of My

friends recommended it to their friends and I don't. I probably can name it people who've quit smoking and not gone back because of that book, which I think is awesome. So I'm not sitting here saying, because I'm a no one wants to hear of someone who never smoked tell them this is what you need to do to quit, simply relaying that I heard good things about it, I read it, I passed it on to people who family and friends who smoked and it worked, and that's all I'll say. And then read

the reviews on Amazon The Easy Way by Alan Carr. I just I love talking about it because I know I've gotten emails from people because I mentioned it on the show and they've emailed me and said it worked for them and they're grateful. So that's great. Yeah, it is a it is man. I mean, smoking cigarettes is terrible, you know. I mean I can't like Okay, let me just put this guy tell you how bad I think about cigarettes. I'm more embarrassed to met uh that's a cigarette smoker than I

am to shooting up crystal meth in my in my veins. So that's kind to tell you how what I think. Uh. Well, Eric, if if you get the book and you read it, whether you like it or don't like it, email me or call us back let us know. Oh absolutely, thank you, thank you so much. I you know, I hate for the asking like a non wrestling question, but I remember Sean,

like you know, in a couple of visis. I like talking about non wrestling stuff because you get the same stuff a lot over and over again when you do interviews, not with Wade, but like your average you know, show that that you do, which I don't do really hardly any uh, to be honest, like you know, I'll do Wade and and a couple of others here and there, but I just don't you know, I mean, you know, you get to what's your who what was your favorite match?

Who's your toughest opponent? You know what I mean? But anyways, Yeah, well you've got a lot of matches other whatever. I'm sorry, d I believe that it's hard. Thank you so much for it. Don't be so sorry. You're great. You're great. I appreciate the call. Good topics. Let me uh, let me see who's been on the whole the longest year and try to bring them in. Nine one seven you're up next. Nine seven. You're on with Sean Waltman on the tw take Live

Tests. Please stake your name. Nine one seven. That sounds familiar. Yeah, Hello, this is Christian New York. Hey man, what's going on? How are you doing? I'm doing fantastic, Chris. Thanks. I have two questions. The first one is about Hulk Hogan. Did you see w legns deal in the future or is he says it to sign it

because he doesn't want to give over his wrestling name to VisiC Man. I I foresee Hulk Hogan finishing his career under the w W E umbrella and as far as at some point eventually, and as far as the issue about him worrying about owning the name, No, no, I don't think that's an issue at all, Chris. Question number two, the second one is about TNA. Do you think that TNA has hit a ceiling or do you ever see them coming becoming a close competitor of Insect Man, it's kind of hard

to touch the ceiling when you're in the basement, man. I mean, you know what though they're on they're on Spike TV, which is a second tier. Yeah, that was huh. They're drawn U you know, million to two million people a week watching their show, you know, somewhere in between there. I mean, they're and any other, uh like TV type of show that would be considered a success. Yeah. I mean, w WB is so successful. I mean they've been doing a twenty years ago they

did they popped a three point four rating on RON. That was a big rating early in Rod's history. Is I think it was? It was the I think it was a week before you headline or wrestled Petty Biassi on the show. We did a three two. Okay, So I think we did a three two because I talked about it in the locker room and from that point on for quite a while, I was the three two kid. Oh okay, it was our it was our return match, me versus Razor for

the ten thousand dollars. Oh yeah, six weeks because I had to go to New Japan to the Super Junior Tournament. Oh okay, So I had six weeks of promos I cut, you know, turning them as offers down anyways. Yeah, so so yeah, I'm saying about that is Row's been doing from you know, early stages of ROW twenty years ago, and they had some peak runs, but you know, three point o plus ratings most

of the time, sometimes a little more ons lass. That is the kind of the number that you judge as to quote successful wrestling show on TV. You know, one point over them is better than average. The demographics aren't great, but they know if they want t NA, it's gonna be around long past some of these reality shows having expiration dates. So it's not horrible, but I think what people do is they look at all the mistakes that are made and all the money that's wasted, and yeah, and that that's

what frustrates. You've bought TNA and yeah, no, I mean, and I have some I my issues with them are are how they treat uh uh, certain people like like what you know, just people like they'll pay for you know, And I know it's it's not a Sari world made. You know, it's not a perfect world. But you know, I think they

could have handled Jesse Swarrenson thing a bit better. You know, if if if it's true like that that his mother went bankrupt over it, that's that's that's the s I mean, I mean, you know what I mean, I come on, at least, I mean, you don't have to get the guy's job for the rest of his life. Come on, that's that's that's a little much. But I mean at papers, papers, goddamn medical

bills. You know that you got hurt working for you. Yeah, Dixie, Dixie isn't a cold hearted promoter who said, hey, we hire guys, we tell them get medical insurance. But they're grown men. It's their job to pay the you know, a couple hundred bucks a month as a healthy twenty year old to get medical insurance and and you know, they should do that before, even before they get into wrestling, because it'll just you know, carry over, and they'll have it and then none of this happens.

That's not Dixie's attitude. And if a promoter had that attitude, you could decide whether that was good or bad, but at least it be consistent not paying Jesse. I think the issue that people have with Dixie is that the claim that she said to the you know, to Jesse in the hospitals, pack carry you. You know, we'll always make sure you are right, combined with the fact that Dixie Carter she said the same type of thing to me about the hepatitis. That's why I know it's true. Yep.

In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight years Back, we'll be

taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's early history. Joey, Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members and what I was can d to then what I was gonna add also to that Sean is Dixie Carter is not Joe Penicino. She's not She's not somebody who isn't well off. You know, Dixie Carter could go well, you know, pen Energy won't pay

for us. I'm gonna sell one of my seventeen cars or go without you know, made service for a day, and I'll pay for Jesse. It's like, I think people have that perception that she could do it, and why the health can't pan the Energy paid for it. They're a billion dollars company. I know they're a very rich company. Wouldn't it wouldn't even I mean, it wouldn't make no difference to them. It's a write off.

But even if Panda won't, I think because Dixie said what she said, people are like she could even write a checkout and privately do it and make it go away and do what's right, even if she disagrees with the corporate decision. Right, and I'm not those things she's obliged to do. But if she's gonna cover Jesse and then she does, and she's gonna take heat

for it, and people are going to think less of that company. And you're right, and and you know what, I kind of I started to feel bad recently, Like god, I was really hard on Dicksie on Twitter recently, and you know, and and and I kind of was, but like, I mean, it just gets so frustrating, you know, like uh, watching people and it's not even me, you know, it's like seeing other people get treated like that, you know, And and uh, you know the kid, the kid, Uh he's got a medical clearance to

works now, that's the thing. Yeah, he's cleared medically to work, So why not at least book him? For Christ's sakes? Ye, he's got no more. I mean, I mean they're they're using Curt. I mean, mind you, Kurt's you know, taking care of it. His his deal right now. But uh, you know, I mean he's got Kurt angle and and she's got you know a lot of guys they're with that kissues. Yeah you know, I mean that you learned how to work better when you when you have an injury like that. Yeah, yeah, all

right, Chris appreciate the call. Let's jump to uh seven seven, oh, next, and then eight six two after that our phone number six four six seven two one ninety two eight. We're down to our final minutes of taking phone calls. Were already Yeah, yeah, time flies by. We're we're over and hour, we're over an hour under the show. Well, I mean, I'm you know, I mean, do you want to go

longer? I'm I'm I'm down. Well, we got a lot of emails, but I'm not sure our switchboard is gonna let us go more than eleven more minutes. So okay, that's that's the challenge. You're so, I'm gonna prioritize calls if they come in. Had a couple of people drop off because it just they couldn't hold on any long. Sure, and I apologize to all those people. Oh yeah, and it's it's mostly Chris's fault. Let's band Christ from New York eating all right? Uh seven seven uh eight

seven seven? Oh you're up? Next? Stop? We state your name and what part of Atlanta area you're from? Sorry, yeah, Laric from Atlanta? Right there, Emory, what's up? What's going on? Man? And then it's going good, you know, always glad to hear you Sean on the live cast. My question I gets, oh, you're welcome. My question kind of ties into the deally with kind of weight and Triple

A in the Grand Land situation, and I'm just kind of wondering. I guess they brought into the spotlight a little bit more sort of the dynamic between wrestling journalists and you know, the wrestlers being covered, you know, religions, sort of those interpersonal relationships, and yeah, I thought, wait,

I thought your rebuttal was was really good. I mean, I know, when I was reading it, I'm kind of like, oh, well, you know, DDP wasn't that great in ninety four ninety five, and he was kind of coming up, and I thought, maybe there's a great at

truth to what Triple Ate was saying. And when I read your rebuttal and You're like, well, you know, I've I've been critical of, you know, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, and Sean Waltman, you know at times where I'm like, yeah, and you know, I've been vi IP for about four years now, and I've I've heard so much audio and I'm just like, you know what, He's totally right. I mean, now that I think about it, I can't remember you holding your tongue about you

know, different guys. So so, Sean, I guess my question to you is, you know, how does sort of that that interpersonal dynamic work between you and you know a journalists like Wade when it's you know, obviously you guys are friendly, you know you have that history, but at the same time, Wade, you know, make criticize something that he's seen, like you know, a promo or how you've treated another wrestler or you know what you've said you know online or something like that. Uh is that is

that? Is that? The gist of that question is that that, Yeah, okay, how do you handle all that? It's it's funny, uh I I And this is this is a case by case thing because there's some guys that are ultra sensitive, some guys that can't look into mirror and see

what's really there. Uh. You know a lot of things I've I've never ever had a problem with it. I can maybe even go one thing and it was just something I told Wade, and and that I thought I'd told him incompetent and maybe I didn't, you know, I wasn't as clear as I should have been. And uh, it might. I think it made

it, you know, made it into the news letter or something. Uh, but like like Waight Keller's probably uh not probably as far as I'm concerned, he has the most integrity of any journalists and uh and back covers wrestling and so uh he can't help but take me the task for you know, when I'm not in La showing my ass, you know, running around with China, making stupid sex tapes and you know, doing uh ridiculous amounts of drugs and act like an idiot? Uh? How does he not? How

does he not take me the task for that and keep this credibility? Uh? You know he's never done He's never written anything that hurt my feelings. I might have gotten a little like but hurt like uh uh with some of the three and three quarters star ratings instead of a four, it's like, Jesus, do I get like do I get do I get punished for being your friend? Like? Do I get a quarter star? Like taking off of my deal just because I'm your friend? What do I overcompensate? So?

But it's really so I just cobducted. Well, and that's that's that's the thing, Larry, that that was you know, rough about one Hunter said is I know, if that's all anybody hears about me, I mean, I think there's twenty five years of evidence saying the opposite. And you know, first of all, he was wrong. DDP didn't call me about

what I wrote. He called what about what Bruce wrote? Because as people know who've heard me and Bruce, Bruce is a lot less of a fan of what DDB contributed to W s W than I was, and even early on I was. Maybe I was just more privy to how hard DP was working and and how dedicated he was, and I kind of had a soft spot for the fact that he started off as this manager in the AWA,

and I had seen his career and I knew where he came from. But I was hearing good things about him and and how hard he was working, and maybe Bruce was commenting and just saying, you know what, that doesn't matter. What matters is what I see on the air, not how much the guy's doing. And we just had a different lens we saw him through. But you know, Bruce's job is not for me to edit him and

say be nice to everybody. I let I let the call him this as long as they're being fair and not malicious, right bluntly, and I did. And DDP. You know, he's not the only wrestler who's called me over the ears and said, hey, this this is in your newsletter. Why do you let this guy write this about me? But the idea that that Hunter portrayed in the article was that I was ripping on DDP. And he quote he quoted me saying Dallas Page is a waste of human skin.

It's like, that's just not my style. And then well he did, but it was a paraphrase that doesn't sound like anything. I would say,

no, no, it doesn't. And then he said, well, after Dallas called him, then you know he he completely changed and started writing in and I think about him, it's like, well, sorry, Dallas Page one from Wrestling Renegade in the opener to having four star matches give or take maybe three three quarter with Randy Savage and really having standout matches and w s W desperately needed a baby face and Dallas Page was one of the key guys

who helped give them that opposing course to the nWo. So if my if their star ratings and one I wrote about Page one up, I wasn't alone, and Dallas didn't call everybody, you know, it's not like you put in a called everybody. Everybody was saying, wow, look at DDP and what he's doing. Now, this has really come up. So I thought it was just unfair to say, well, if your opinion changes about somebody, it must be because of a phone call. Because A, my opinion

didn't change. There was someone else's who wrote that, and B everybody was you know, Eric Bishop included thought Dallas Page you know, was deserving of a move up the car. Actually it was actually Eric was the hardest on him, Like Eric because they were friends, like like like uh, you know, Scott Kevin had to had to like really really push Eric and the letting, you know, letting him get to them, because that's what really did it for Dallas was when he got to the Mwoh yeah, you know

I should say as but the main two were Kevin and Scott. Yeah, you guys might if to follow off about Okay, yeah, I really and I pause because I forget which WW creative team member mentioned this, But I kind of was wondering both of your perspectives, mostly Shawn again since he's a guest, but about, you know, Triple Asia's influence. I'm potentially holding

the guys back. Now. I'm not like a big conspiracy theorist about how that works, but I just remember the example that stood out was the I think the two thousand six Royal rumble when Raymond Siria went over after Eddie Guerrero's death, and that's been up to the day of Triple As like, ah, you sure you want to have ready to win? I can win, you know how, I'm right here, and so I'm kind of wondering what's

the extent that was that? Was that the story? Yeah? I mean, yeah, the story was that Way was an underdog and had kind of, you know, the spirit of Eddie you with I'm not like that, but you know what I mean. But I mean, was that the story was that the rumor going around that that thought that Paul was was the writer the writer the writer who said that said he explained, I mean, he

said he explicitly saw Hunter. Yeah. So I'm getting your perspectives on how, I mean, do you think the reputation is unjustified or do you think it's kind of somewhere in the middle, because Hunter basically said I never do that what are you talking about? You know, I mean if the guy really believes that that was what's best for the company. And uh, and you know he's not doing to you know, burry the other guy like maybe he's wrong, but I wouldn't, you know. It's hard for me.

It's hard for me. I try to be really objective and I answer questions like you know about about that. It's hard too though, because I mean, I mean, not you know about any of my friends. Well, and Sean, let me tell you running and remember your thought and I'm sorry later. But is a fan of Triple h. He believes in himself he would not be absolutely guy if he did not have a massive ego. Ego drives people to do the things that it takes to be good at the E

W E style entertainment, at wrestling. And so Triple did Triple Huh. Like you said at the beginning of this interview, was he he got to have a little asshole in you. You have to have You've got to be your number one proponents could coach. When I interviewed Hogan ten eleven years ago for the Torch newsletter and did the longest insider interview he's ever done, I think, and I challenged on some of the stuff, and he didn't apologize

for it. He goes, it's a dogg eat dog world. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but he said, I'm not going to apologize for looking out for me and doing what I needed to keep myself on top and fight off threats and and you know, so he'll deny the micro you know, Oh, I didn't sabotage Brent Hart when he came to w W. I don't know anything about that. But on a macro sense, Hogan admitted,

yeah, that was this policy. So if Hunter was doing that, it doesn't mean objectively somebody might not look and go, you know what, I'm not Hunter's mom, and I'm not Hunter's brother, and I'm not his best friend. I think Great should have gotten that spot, but Hunter. But Hunter is a guy who for his own push and advocated for it and he was effective at it. And if he owned it and said, everyone else should have been doing the same thing, and ultimately it was insect man's decision.

I don't think he has a lot more to apologize for. No, I agree, I agree with with you on that. I just like you know, I mean, if you're not, and this is one of my favorite expressions. Actually it's funny, So it's funny that you brought it up. I always tell somebody like, I'll take a guy on my team that is a mark for himself any day of the week. I'm like, if you're not a family of yourself, why the fun Why the hell should anybody

else be be family yours? You know? Yeah, sorry, I almost dropped the f that's right, no problem, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna try in our remaining seconds here to squeeze in one more call and then we'll go off the here. I have so much good stuff. Yeah, sorry, I couldn't give you a longer answer on that. It's just you

know, for you know it on time. I do want to let people know if you're not VIP and you I want to go VIP because we're gonna get into a lot of good stuff with Sean, including talking about SummerSlam and the Row the next day and all kinds of good stuff. I mean, I've taken notes throughout. Go to pwtorch dot com slash go vip. That's the sign up page. Pwtorch dot com slash go vi ip and you'll get full beatils on how to sign up and become a member. You won't regret

it. Nobody does. It is twenty five years of archives and tons of new content. We'll take it behind the scenes like no one else. Check it out. I have to agree with that. Thank you, Sean. Support us on Patreon starting at four dollars in ninety nine cents get these shows ad free and bonus VIP content. That's four dollars and ninety nine cents on Patreon, Patreon dot com slash Pwtorge vip. That's Patreon dot com slash Pwtorch vi ip. That is the quickest, cheapest and easiest way to support us

and enjoy these shows with a streamlined listening experience. The Waight Keller Post shows, podcasts, and the Pwtorch daily casts, plus some random VP bonus content. All right, let me try to squeeze in here our eight six two era code off plea stick your name and where you're from? Kayland from Nework, New Jersey. Hey, Kylin. We got about twenty seconds, so I gotta hold you to one question because we were going off the air. Hey there, does Cassius oh No really have a bad attitude as he's been

labeled as heaven. No. I just think he's very misunderstood. That's that's my that's my that's my. Uh. If there's any I didn't even know that that was like what was what was being said. But no, he's just he's just misunderstood. He's a very very very very humble guy. And uh and that he's you know, he's excited, he wants it. He wants to go out there in that great match. All right, maybe they take that drong way. John Woman, Thank you so much for being my

guest. Follow Sean at what's your on Twitter handle at the real xbox, and you can also support the cause at MWO wolfpac dot com. Excellent on the other wolf Pack with a c Noka good good station. All right on the other side of the music vi IP member, stay tuned. We've got really good stuff for you and we're gonna talk more about Elemental two and SummerSlam, a j South Confert situation, what a shoan think of him as worker? And oh on and on and on wants good stuff. So we are

down to the final seconds here. Thanks everybody for joining us. And on Monday, Tress Brand, Druce Mitchell on the show and check out Sea Freto two days ago on with petnic Meal on the Live Past. Thanks everybody. Visit peutorch dot com every day and read at pwtorch the most popular news feature and many years on our website. Find out why footed every day PW Torch dot Tom asked Peter with the Torch found out this money are cool. We are now in the v IP have to show a portion of the program.

Sean, thanks for doing the black cast. Yeah, it's fun. I always like doing that. Yeah, it's cool. I thought it was great when you're on sucks when the sucks when you have time constraints. So like that last question while the guy was actually was a little more than a question. He was kind of getting himself over on on yours. Huh, we got some callers to do that. That's cool though he was. I mean,

he had good stuff to say. Uh, but like I didn't have time to give him a really good answer because it was a good question. Go ahead and expand for VIP members, that's what they paid for. I just you know, like in general, uh, it's just Hunter Hunter as a friend and traveling down the road with him, you know, and business

wise because they were really intertwined. You know. Uh, he has that more in him than I do, you know, to where he's willing to maybe do more like like he was he was in on the screw job thing, you know, uh, you know that type of thing. I don't know if I could have been in on that, yeah, you know, And you know that's that's just he's got and that's why he's more successful too. Yeah, you know, but I just I don't I don't see Paul's

Paul's all. He's about what's best for business. He really truly, yeah, and honestly, like he's one of the few things that's really really good for I mean not one of the few. There's a lot of things around there now that are good are gonna be good for business, but you know, he's he's he's one of those guys that you can pull out of the shelf for WrestleMania, you know, and be one of the top matches.

Speaking of just kind of philosophical changes, you've got. You've got Steve Austen on his podcasting agreeing Rick Flair, and they're talking about, you know, all kinds of insight stuff and it's great. I mean you, you know, when you and Dustin Rhodes are on for a few minutes and I just sat back earlier this year and listen to you guys talk. It was, you know, flying the Wall too. It's funny because I didn't even think

anything of it. That was I thought we were born people, right, But that feeling of oh wow, two wrestlers talking to each other with their guard down, they're comfortable. Most fans don't experience that. They experience the rest is maybe at a Q and A talking to them, but it's the wrestler to fan style of converse thing, and it's different when two wrestlers who respect each other talk. And that's what's cool about the Austen podcast. I

don't know if you've heard many of them, but he's great. Yeah, So my question is more specifically here, I'm gonna do one too, you know well, that was one of the email questions people want to know when you're gonna be on since Paul I MSH have done it. Well, I'm looking forward to that one. Oh No, I like, I don't know when I'm gonna do. I don't know if I'm gonna do one. A ski box, I'm gonna do my own podcast. Oh okay, well we'll

stay with the awesome thing then for another thing. Well let me get my question off before we get Mark Henry on the pay per view on Sunday. I don't think they showed it on Raw. But Mark Henry was in some Dorito's contest where a fan one a contest got picked out. He got to move up, you got to get extra tickets or something if he allowed Mark

Henry to splash him. And they put the fan in the ring and Mark Henry splashes them and then Mark Henry helps him up, and everybody's all smiles and all the corporate people are winking and you know, high five and it's like, oh, this is a great promotion. And they show it during the pay per view that this average schmo takes the Mark Henry splash and then

stands up and you know, a little nervous but basically totally fine. It's like seeing the fucking excuse me, sorry, yeah, It's like it's like seeing the boom mic on the top of the screen right when you're watching a movie. John, How does that make the airways or is I you know, they are willing at times. I've seen it in the task to to to be on the tip of one of these big corporate sponsors, because you're talking about millions of dollars to do something like that, you know, and

on on a on a lesser scale. Uh. You know, they had Captain Kirk with no big old red whiskey knows and he was and he was hebriated, you know, throwing road dog around the ring, you know. And in Houston, you know, just to appease the star, they're like to appease the Sidy group and WCW. They'd bring the celebrity and make him do a job, you know, the football player or whatever. And and I just don't want some schmuck from Doritos marking out and that's offensive to me.

Yeah, I was offended watching it. I mean, I just you know, and I you know, but it's not if it's Henry Etta blade it in. I know, seriously, man, I would have laid them just enough to where that guy had a hard time getting up, yep. And I'm not kidding. Or just have it obviously be different, you know, have Henry do be really bad book him, yeah, or do a press slam and hold a guy in the air and then set him down gently

and go, yeah, I don't want to break this guy. You know this guy, you know, like there's a way to do it, and just get way to kill markoff in that in that building. Yeah yeah, So anyway, I just want to make sure I wasn't missing something. I love Mark Henry, Yeah, I love that guy. He's great. He's

great. So that's what made be sad too. And it was like when Mark Henry and del Rio were heels, I think it was late last year, and they showed him at a charity function smiling with kids and hugging them, and I'm like, no, if you want them to do charity, I would even disagree with that, but go ahead and do it, because if you do it, don't you do it, but don't show it on

TV. Don't show on TV. And you know what, kids should be scared of them if you're doing your job, and if they're not scared of them, and if they're scared of them, they shouldn't be at the charity apparances. I don't know. I told them I wouldn't do then I wasn't gonna do. I made a big stink. This is what a pain in the ass. I was all the time, I was like a thorn.

Right, Yeah, when nine to eleven happened, I was like, if this is gonna be a media freaking stunt just to get fucking pr I don't want any part of it, Like I don't want a bunch of cameras and that going to the different fired stations and yeah, you know, and they didn't. I mean they still did at ground zero though, Yeah, but like they didn't make a huge It wasn't like totally exploit exploitive, you know.

Yeah, well, all right, I had to get that option chest because I need I need, I need your assurances that I'm not the only person who sees a problem with that. No, I bet you there was a lot of people in that building that we're not happy about that. Triple

H has power now. And he didn't like he didn't like tough enough at first because it showed too much, it pulled the curtain away too much, And he said in the grant Land interview, he's like, you know, I was a Chris uh some some famous magician who offered to take him backstage, and yeah, an Angel, Yeah, Chris Angel. Yeah, I thought it was him. And he's like, I don't want to know. I just want to enjoy the show. And so, yeah, we don't

have very we have very few things that actually entertain us. Right, Yeah, that's that's a good way to put it. Because yeah, and so why can't why why can't that apply? Why can't Triple H see that that should apply to me? And every view were out there. We don't want to see somebody get up from the mark Henry Splash, who's right, brilliant, Yeah, we don't want to see the wires. Yeah, there's a million ways to satisfy some schmuck from Gritos. Then letting the first bad idea

be the way. That was one of the worst. That's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of. Yeah, yeah, all right, well, let let's get some other stuff here. Got email questions marked. This is Julian who says where should aj Styles go when his contract with TENA expires? And I'll add to that, Sean, two things, what do you think of aj Styles as a worker? And also did you read the Triple at Grantline interview? I didn't like It's not embedded in my in my brain.

It's just that I wanted to be familiar with what was said, yeah, and so all he'd One thing he said is he wants in a couple of years everybody on WrestleMania to have gone through developmental. He wants everybody to be a developmental guy. And and the way I read that, plus other things I'm hearing, plus other things independent wrestling. No, but there's it's nuanced. And I want to tell you the nuance that I interpreted because I want to know if this sound's fair, and I think it does. I

still agree. I think what Trip later saying is we're not going to take somebody like Bobby Roots, Game Storm aj Styles out of CNA and shoot them out of our TV right away without putting him through developmental and making sure they know how we do things here and kind of setting a message to everybody, you gotta go through this turnstile and spend some time here before we get the main roster. That doesn't apply to Rob Vandam, Rob Vandam or Christian or

the Dudleys. No, they've already been dead. Sorry, yeah, they've been They've been through the process. They need to stop. But if you're Robert Rude, James, Storm, j AJ Styles, even anybody like that, he's saying you're gonna go through developmental first and we're gonna hubble you a little. We're gonna make sure they know. And I don't have a problem with that either, not at all. But if I'm a TNA guy and that takes away a lot of it's gonna be a big ego hurt, like

spruce to the ego. Not only that, Sean, but if you have to sign, if you're negotiating with TNA, TNA now knows what you're negotiating against. Is the twenty five thousand dollars downside contract. Yeah, at least for a year or two, you know, at least first spaces or something. And that hurts the guy's negotiating a leverage, but you know, it

is what it is. I mean, but does that to me? I don't see a huge problem with Triple H saying that, but I am it does hurt ages Styles, Robert Rue, James Storman, you know a number of other guys who are TNA, you know original well from a business standpoint, then I think that it worked perfectly. Yeah, I mean, let's be honest with you, Like he's he's like being groomed and basically running a publicly traded company. Yep, you know, I just I mean, he

has to answer to stockholders. I don't want to be that guy that's like just given the toe and you know, given the BS talking points, right, you know, I don't want it to be that at all, but it really is. You if you've never been to w w E, I'm sorry you need to. Why do you think Chris Jericho had such a hard time when he first came. He's taught read his book. Yeah, I

know, I had to teach. I had to tell tease him out to do you know w w E's playing event style, Yeah, you know, and he he was a lot of people who thought Jericho was just all you know, had learned everything he needed to learn before two three or two thousand. None of that was timmy thing. Actually yeah, yeah, they did. It's but Jericho, you know, over time admitted he had a lot to learn, and what worked elsewhere or what was good else rose in there.

But there does seem Yeah, so anyway, that's that's fair enough. I just wanted to because I don't know, I don't think trip La should take heap for that. That's the thing that bugging me about Triple H has taken that you know, inaccurate, and I thought kind of unfair dig such as it was is I'm reading this nodding along. I agree, there's like five ten percent. I vehemently disagree with him on but I might be wrong, you know what, But I my my position is no, don't do

that. But maybe there's an whole you know, more details the story and it's not his fault. And he doesn't think that. But when I read that interview with him, I'm like, wrestling has been pretty good hands, you know what I mean. He's a yeah, sure, I think he's got He's one of the smartest guys that you would want in charge. And I think he's all so flexible enough that when necessary to change a little bit, if he needs to that, you know, he will change his mind

on some things if it seems like that's what has to happen. There was something I had a major issue, well what I thought was a major issue. I get. I texted him and it was a big marathon text like and I'm sure he gets you know, I know how many texts I get for Christ's sakes, you know, So I mean, you know, he's got a million things to worry about and uh, you know, I get a call like from the Legends guy, and uh you know he said,

I got and he's got Summer Slam going on and everything. He's like, I got three different text messages from Hunter to take care of this, and you know what I mean. Yeah, So, I mean he's he's really got a lot on his plate, man, Yeah, a lot. And he's really the only guy that can do it. He's the only guy there is. I feel like I feel I'm hearing the PW Torch livecast theme song in the background. I don't know why. How are you hearing some You're

hearing some limb charms? Oh okay, well that's some people would say that would be an improvement. Not me. I'll say it because somebody else is thinking it. But do you remember when Hulk Hogan shocked the world and formed the New World Order, or when stone Coat Steve Auston passed down on the Sharp Shooter to break the hit Man Hart. I'm Torch contributor Frank petty Ani, and I reviewed these shows and many more for my exclusive VIP podcast,

Pro Wrestling Than in Now. Together with a rotating chair of co host, We Go Back ten twenty even thirty years review pay per views from top to bottom, talk about where the wrestlers were at the time and compare what took place then to what is taking place now. You get exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part of your PW Torch VIP membership, which is compatible with the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com slash go vip for details

and sign up for all. Right, what's uh, let me go another email. Well, let me make sure we answer that adequately. Oh but aj what Yeah, what do you think we do? Yeah, let's get back them. Well, I would if if you can get into the into the development, if that's what Honter want, if that's if that's that's the policy, then I think he should go there because honestly, you that the contract is is just a piece of paper. Yeah, they can fire you

anytime they want, you know. So he's he's great enough to go in there and uh and get everything on his merits you know, coming in the door. Once he gets established and becomes you know, becomes successful there and gets emotional equity with the with the w w E universe. I's saying that at all, he's universe thing you know with the fans. Uh. Actually, the universe thing kind of has grown on me a bit, a little bit. I mean I get it still, I get it. If it

wasn't part of the kind of I think it's just forced too much. It's the George Orwellian language control aspect of it that is a little bit of a turn off. It feels a more corporate than wrestling. Yeah, we all kind of want wrestling to be, but it is the new reality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you think of Aha as a Worker's he guy having been through Jericho's went through and you've seen enough of his work in CNA obviously and worked with him. Where where is he as an overall worker?

Is he somebody at his age mid thirties now, who who you think would be able to step into w w E with very little turnaround time and be sure valuable? Guys? Sure? I just as far like his like his talent and his ability, and is uh his wrestling acumen? I I pro wrestling actman. I think uh, I think uh he can adjust and he will He'll comprehend, you know, uh, just Finn, you know, he'll excel. Yeah. I just think that his look stands in the

way. It's because it's hard, like you know, him walking down down the street. It's it's you know, you don't you're not seeing A. He doesn't project like outside the ring. He doesn't project the star, right, I think superstar saying yeah, No, I thought he's been an issue with him. That's why you know he's wearing the ball cap. And you know, I always thought AJ's best gimmick was, you know, but best gimmick would be to be the kind of the everyman, you know, like

the Petty Haskell yeah, or doesn't. I thought I was always thinking the character or in a in a superhero movie, who before he puts on the superhero outfit, he's the average everyday guy. And and to me, AJ becomes a superhero when he steps through the ropes. But he is and he's your neighbor, you know, before then and something happened Peter Parker, That's

exactly it. Yeah, Evin, I always thought that was you know, they bounced AJ around a t anda with so many awful gimmicks, and to me that that made to me like he shouldn't be a He shouldn't be a gimmick. He's AJ styles Yeah, yeah, Well we'll see where he goes. It's tough. You know, if T and A's not paying, if they're cut splashing there. Oh and if they know that, they're gonna really

really stick it to the boys exactly. But you know what if that's what it pays, you know what if they're not really if they're not if they're not uh, if they're not drawing numbers, if they're not uh, you know, making revenue, you know, earning revenue for the company, and then really like you should like you should be paid on on on what you're you know, what you draw, you know, I mean, like Jerry Jarrett used to say this, He's like, guys are complaining about fifty dollars

payoffs, but look at the grad look at the house, like, you know, nobody's drawn anything, but they want to be paid. Like you know, No, you took the words out of my mouth, Sean when you really interrupted me, because that's where I was going. Did I really only interrupt you? No, Actually wouldn't be a verse time. You know you were. You were quite polite and interrupting me. But I've politely and rudely interrupted you on the show too, So I'm just I don't keep scoring.

I got my little hashtakes here. I'll let you know how it is. All right, let me do another question here. Oh, this is a comment from someone John from Greensboro. I'm a VIP member and I don't have a question for Sean Walman. I just wanted you to tell him how much I appreciate his thoughtfulness in his candor when he appears on your show. His interviews are always interesting, informative and insightful. My triple word construction copyright

Paul Hayman. You know, Paul always does that, sure three words in a row to start with the same stuff. But he's interesting, informative, and insightful. So a nice later that's really cool, Like you know what though, that kind of stuff that means a ton to me, you know, I mean, honestly, you know, there's your there's your stereotypical wrestling van that can be annoying or or I don't know if that's your word do you use? Yeah, but you know what I mean. Yeah, I

hope you do. Uh. And and then you have you know, I'm great, probably a majority of the people that are really really cool like that, yeah, yeah, you know, and and you have a lot of smart you have a lot of smart callers. Yeah, we do. We do a good job at educating our callers. We we uh we are our emailers, our readers. We make sure that uh that that we kind of brainwash them into being very smart torque round. Well, they're they're they are

taking it. Like when they when they you know, when they ask me a question, it blows me away. Sometimes. Yeah, the uh, well that's cool. I'm just so used to being so awesome. I don't even notice anymore. And you know, so thank you to that guy. Yeah, it means a ton, It means a lot to me. Yeah. No, that that's very cool. All right, let's uh go to

this question I alluded to this. This is VIP member Tommy Steve from Detroit, big fan of the Kid, and I was wondering, since you are friends with Sean Kevin Scott and they've all done Stone Cold podcast, when are we going to hear from you on his show? And he pants off talking Triple H into doing Steve Boston show or this show. Hope to hope to see continue success. We'll love to see the click return at the Hall of Fame. But I'll try to wait, but try to wait for us.

Maybe thirty two because Detroit's on the short I want to see it there. I don't know about Detroit getting man. Yeah, you know what's else there's a story you know that could be something that could help that down out though, you know, and it should. It should be thirty three, so it would be the twentieth the thirtieth anniversary of WrestleMania three, and it should be a big deal about look at what Yeah, and then you say,

look what we did for this community. We've been to New York, then we went to New Orleans and helped you know, we're an injection into that that economy after a Hurricane Katrina. But imagine all the cool pieces they could do about about Detroit and be, you know, go on the streets, go to go to some of the tougher areas and the schools with the wrestlers. I mean it to be a real feel good year. Yeah, but why wait? Why wait two years? Three years? Though? Also just

for the anniversary do it asap? They could use it, Yeah, I mean they don't. You know, it's that's you know, it's not w w e's uh responsibility to help dig Detroit out of the But I'm just saying if it's a good idea now and it makes sense either this year or next year or the year after. I'm just saying that town, could you know, use it sooner than later. But you're right, they got to do

its best for their themselves. And obviously the chocolate I think so you know tells Telly's a good good, a good you know, a good city for that. They got the hell of a stadium there, Yep. They haven't had WrestleMania there since I were at wrestled Chaney on what would I guess what went down? Is not one of the better WrestleManias, right yeah, but all right, our Matt is pretty damn good. Yea. So all right, you can elaborate on this if you want. It covers a topic.

Oh I never answered the stone cold thing. Oh you're right, I'm just jumping all overs. Go ahead. Yeah. Uh you know I'm not one to call somebody and go hey, can I be on your podcast? You know what I mean? Right? Yeah? You know when he asked me, I'll be, I'll do it. Yes, yes, you know I would love to. I'm a he He's always been really good to me.

Uh. We we've always gotten along really well. Uh we we uh we had good chemistry in the ring is you know, didn't get to lock up with them too much, but what a machine, you know, and and just uh a great conversationalist. Is there anybody who is a bigger star who's as big of a fan of pro wrestling after his wrestling years than Steve Austin was? I mean, you know, Kevin Nashville loves wrestling, Scott Hall

still. But like there's it's it's weird. You get to see the people who succeed in wrestling during their peak years, more often than not, are bigger fans of wrestling when they wrestling days are over than the guys who didn't make it. And I think that says something. Yeah, you know Brett's like that, he's a big fan of today's crop, Bret Hart. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I and I heard him say that on Steve's

Fuck Steve's Show. I just think if you are a fan of wrestling before you get into wrestling, if you're still a fan of wrestling when you're in it, you're more likely to succeed, and you're also more likely than to keep watching it when you're done. That's not one hundred percent true. You know, not everybody who was a big star wants to go watch it when they're done. But you don't listen to Steve's podcast and he just I mean

not that he watches Robbery week start to finish. I'm not saying that, but he's talking about how he watches you know, Luca Livery watches him. Hey, he's just like he can't get enough of it and it's just in

his blood. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Scott's getting Scott now is like Scott's the guy that Scott Hall for those of don't know who I'm talking about, Uh, is the guy that was found an ice and uh looking up like our Buck Rogers style like like and all now all this technology like you know, uh, he hadn't no idea that all of this was that was was there for him, like YouTube and you know, the Internet and like all of just every like every match you can think of you can almost find

on on online. Yeah, you know, and uh and he's and that's you know what, that's a that's a big part of of of him keeping healthy and uh clean headed, clear headed. Yeah, yeah, absolutely he I talked to him today. We were talking about that just that very subject. Yeah, we were talking about getting the you know, doing the like because we're doing the Wolfpack thing. This this on the thirty first in Pasadena.

Watched City Productions, I think's the name of it. Yeah, but you know, uh to take that on the road and uh and and do you know Q and A's and you know, uh even the Mike Tyson type show because I went to Mike's show and when he was here in clear Water and he did a fantastic job. At the same time, it was it was something that any one of us could have done too, you know. Yea, and we have some fantastic stories for the people that are into us. Cool. Let me bring this next one up. This is Robert from

every PA. Question for Sean if you feel comfortable speaking about it. Which pay per view did you received your highest payoffs for? What's your highest grossing year in w w E. Thanks Wade baf came over here and as usual loving all the audience. Is that to have a good deal, I mean uh, I mean figures. I'll say that for one mat for for my match versus Shane WrestleMania. Oh cool, well, yeah, I'm I've made uh for for the Osaka Dome fifty thousand dollars. Uh Jesus, Uh,

my years were my best years on paper? Well, I shouldn't say this, don't want I arrest of it. I'm listening. A million and a half A million and a half million and a half was you know, that's before hotel and travel and road expenses. Yeah, that's gross. Yeah. I just want people to know that a lot comes out of that because you guys be very contracted. So yeah, exactly. Do you have a sense of the pay scale today compared to Sannon? No, No, I really

don't. And I guess there's some guys that are making some good scratch. I think it's I think there's a really wide and then there's some guys that ain't aren't making dick. Yeah, there's a really wide discrepancy. Now a lot of ranges. The Randy Orton divorce proceedings and you know, the wife and her the ex wife and her attorney are gonna, you know, take the best years you ever had and add everything together and not take road expenses.

But I mean they were talking about you know, they claimed Orton app was averaging like three million a year and or four or more than that maybe. Oh yeah, No, I can see that for sure. Yeah, yeah, but that's I mean, you know what Austin is best year made eight ten million Hogan and w s W. You know, not far from

that in w s W that you know people top out at that. I don't know what John seeing a top down I but I bet it's in that range because the merchandise, it's it's probably a little more with John, yeah, just because he is the guy. And yeah, because when you're the man like you, you get you get that that pay slot. Yeah.

Yeah. One way that you can help us sustain our schedule of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving us a five star rating on Apple podcast Just go to Apple podcast and look for our Weight Killer Procesing podcast and Weight Killer Processing post show and give us a five star rating. We hope you think we've earned that score with our fast turnaround times and our quantity and quality of wrestling analysis throughout the week. So take a moment out for us and

do us favor and give us a five star rating and Apple Podcasts. That helps us on search returns and helps us grow. And if you want, you can add a few comments about what you like about the programs in the comments section, thank you so much. But yeah, you know, then there's a big drop off for developmental guys. And I mean you got to earn money to make money. It's like, yeah, I remember my first year, my first six months, I mean thirty grand yep, and that's

grows yea. Bob Holly wrote about that too. You know, he was just like, you know, in his book, he's just shocked that it's hard to make. It's like, damn man, you get that, you get that draw and then you get your check and it says zero or negative or with a minus sign. And you know, I mean, hey, that was all the Florida those all the Florida towns and you know some of the Canada towns back then. Hey, is always going up and down, up and down if you're not in a salaried position, you know, whether

you run your own business, I know what it's like. There's been ups and downs for a wide variety of reasons over the last twenty five plus years. And uh and the uh if you work for somebody but you're on a percentage pay basis, you know, like you know, ostensibly w W E is if there's a talking about incentive based the what's the minimum guarantee type situation. Yeah, I mean you're gonna have ups and downs, and like UFC, you know, people like, oh do they pay enough? And some

of these guys are working for a thousand bucks or you know freels. Yeah, that pisses me off. Well if some of them, I mean, come on, man, it's you know how much it costs just to train for a fight. That's the thing. It's one thing to say I made three thirty thousand dollars or six months before expenses, but you know, you

could get by on that. But if you're fighting once every eight months and you're having to quit your job and pay for the gym, pay for trainers, you know, all that stuff, and you're getting a thirty five hundred dollars payoff for winning a fight on a pay per view, that does you know three hundred or eight hundred thousand buys at sixty bucks a shot. I would like to see USC stay. We're going to make sure everybody who fights, you know, full time for US can make at least a decent downside

with the money they're making. And but you know, what can you do? I mean, you know, I don't get far from that. For for for for what I you know, for my independent booking, Yeah, I know, yeah, and I'm doing you know, and we're we're out there telling us putting on a show. Yeah, and you're not preparing six months for that one fight, and you know there's exactly and you know, there's five hundred or a thousand or actually when I'm there is usually a lot

more than that. But I'm just kidding, you know. Actually, you know, I feel real fortunate people still seem to come on and watch us, you know, yeah, you know, whether it's just me or Meek Evan and Scott or I mean Scott or you know, I'm real grateful for that. Or when I when Billy and Bart and Dog were before they got rehired, we were doing six man hell, we were doing thousand people on

night all day long. Yeah, that's a lot of independent shows. Let me see if I can get Marity on Kashisono because this is uh, what do you think Catchasono and NXT is our specific reason he's been in developmental for three years or is it a case of just having to wait his turn if he was brought up to the main roster. Do you think he'd be a good spit to team with Hayman and Axel, to work with Punk in order to tell a good story and get using that psner at Mania. Thanks for

taking time for my questions. V I remember Ryan from Scottsdale, Arizona. I'm a Methanic of of Christ of Kashasano. Yeah. I don't know what to say about about that. I really don't. Man. You know, there's a lot of guys that have been there. Biggie Langson was there for four years. Yeah, I remember, and came and left and came. Yeah. Yeah, I was just I was just BSk and with Rip Rogers about that. Oh yeah, yeah, because Rip kind of help train uh,

sand Out. But that's why sand Out wears the pink trunks. Oh, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, so hell man, Uh, I'm I'm a little bit lost now where we're just past. Yeah. How would he how would he fit in if they moved him to the main roster and would he be a good Paul Hayman guy. M quite possibly. I mean I was always like I like this stuff him and him in Claudio you know, in r O H. I'd like to see Claudio move up to the next level as far as work wise, I'm a huge I'm a huge

fans, but like step it up. Yeah, main event, you know, get that main event feel, you know, and that main event flow? No to me? To me, tell me, because I obviously respect your opinion on this huge How does to me? Uh, he's he works kind of a slow, deliberate, all set the pace pace that doesn't he doesn't switch gears enough. Yeah, And like Steve Austen was talking about that with Samoa Joe and in as podcast last week about how they're like, you

know what, you can't do that anymore. It's twenty thirteen. It sucks, but you need to work at the pace of the business, not have the business slow down to your pace because you want to tell a story old school And it seems like he's kind of stubborn that way. Triple Age, by the way, in the late nineties I thought was kind of stubborn about that, and he kind of learned to switch gears and that's when he took

off. And is there a comparison there and what does it take to get somebody to think that way and break from their instincts Like, okay, I'll use an example. We uh, it was road Dog and I were teaming and the Dubis came in and the Dublies came in, and they had a lot of heat because Bubba Wash you know or eight time ECW champions, and he was telling people's stuff like that in the locker room. Guys, he

was working with them, mark you know, that kind of thing. And I think he'd probably be the first to admit that's how he was back then. And uh, and then we'd put you know, we tried to put a match together with them, and uh because we we hadn't we you know, we didn't angle it. Don't know, we were working with them on when they came in. Uh uh, and they just were intent and it was mostly Bubba because he was he's pretty much the leader of the team and

the spokesperson. Uh. But they were just so intent on doing so much and and not waiting for the you know, you know, just I know, I'm kind of bumbling my words here because I'm trying to figure out how to put it so people can understand it. But uh, but what just let me just just go to this point. Once once they listened, once we we finally said, look, just trying our way tonight and and and if and if it doesn't work, okay, we'll try it your way.

And they come back from the ring and it was like, oh my god, I had no idea, you know, and they had no idea how to work a proper tag match, and they they they caught on, you know, and and uh and they ended up obviously doing great. Yeah, you know, they were very formulaic, which is fine with me. You know. Uh made it easier easy to work with them every night. So yeah, yeah, and hey, if the crowd's responding, I mean, why why do you have to change something up if it's nothing else, nothing

else matters? Yeah, or a very few other things matter. Well, what the what the dirt cheats say about you? You know that matters? Yeah, that does. If you're getting big pops and making a lot of money but a little not getting great reviews and the cheats are you know that that's very really a failure. Hey, you know what it does? It does have an effect what is written about you? Yeah, yeah it does. I mean people can say what they want, but it does. People

people would say you to did cheat this? And then yeah they're sitting that, you know, they got one coming to their house. Yeah, you know, uh, for Chraist's sakes, another one of your competitors was actually on their payroll, ye for Christ's sakes. Yeah yeah, well, uh, development wise, you haven't been to the Performance Center, but from what you heard about it, I mean, you spend so much time down at SCW, and what's the previous set up? Are you? Are you a

fan of what you've seen and heard? And I like you. I'll add this big picture thought bubble to this. I'm watching I watched Total Divas. I'm seeing WrestleMania twenty nine was essentially as much for the for the corporate sponsors was for the fans. You know, all the look at how great we are, look at all the great things we do for the world, all those videos in between the matches. They were entertaining their corporate sponsors as much

as they were entertaining the fans. So you've got that, you've got the George Orwellian speak, you've got Total Divas pulling the curtain back and showing this whole other side. It just on and on and on and now the Performance Center and tripolates saying we want one hundred percent of our guys to be developmental we're not. We're almost divorcing ourselves from anything that pre existed as as the wrestling industry, and we're now becoming a corporation that happens to promote what used

to be known as pro wrestling. That's kind of what it's that's kind of what it's become. It feels like man, Yeah, but it's still foresighted ring. Yep. And just like the other night, the word wrestling was used at least half a dozen times, if not more. Yep. And I like that. That counter well, good good, that's good enough. I'm not glad he's not totally on that on that you know, creo light but the or at all for that matter. But nevertheless, it does seem

like w w E the mcmahn family dream, which they've been. You know, sometimes you've got to fake it before you make it, the old saying. Sometimes that's a speaker. Yep. And I and I believe it. I believe in that. I think that works a lot, and you can find exceptions, but I think it works a lot. But but you have to have a game plan and do the homework and work hard and all that stuff and still a little luck. But take it till you make it does

is a good step. But anyway, what I want to say is WWE faked that they weren't pro wrestling, going back to the late eighties when vincego our competition is not WW and Jim Crockett Promotions, it is Walt Disney and Disney on Ice. And if people just roll their eyes, but they really have. It took thirty years, but he's kind of gotten to the point now with a performance center and all this corporate sponsorship and the total Leava's reality

show. WWE is. I think this year, this year more than any other, was a tipping point where WWE is almost completely disconnected, is almost completely cut the cord from what from the from wrestling being a genre of which they're a brand in it. They are now WWE with no need for any wrestling to exist outside of their bubble. Yeah that was a long question, but yeah, okay, yeah they can do that, but it's still a

bubble, still gets sucked down at suck to a vacuum. Yeah. I don't know if if that made any sense to let me, in one sentence say that if everything that wasn't WWE but was related to pro wrestling or was pro wrestling in the United States went away. By the end of the year, every indie want shut down. It was out loud. Whatever TNA shut down, every training school that exists that wasn't the Performance Center shut down. Wwe would not be largely impacted over the next five years by that relative to

any time in history, by wide margin. Yeah, well, it wouldn't affect them at all. I mean, well it would, but like you know, very little, Yeah, very little. And I and I think that, and I think that's that's smarter of them as a company. Yeah, yeah, and I but they've I think they've wanted to be there for

a long time. But I think the Performance Center was a huge moment for them opening that, because it really did I think for the last time for you know, was that final step to saying we really are fine if DNA doesn't send us talent, if we don't get talent from our wage, if we don't have guys on the indie And I think that is in a way liberating for them. And I think in a weird way, then go ahead say yeah, in a weird way, I think it'll make them more open.

It'll take a couple of years more open to being to looking at the INDEC and looking at TNA and looking to Japan for talent, because they won't feel they need to. So when they do it, it'll feel like it's by choice, and so in a weird way, it might kind of have a reverse psychological effect and there might be more open than to bring in people in from the DC and instead of resenting the fact that they started outside of their bubble. No, I don't think that's going to be the case.

All I think that they're gonna embrace good talent from the indies. But like they've done with Jennerico, Yeah, yeah, you know, I think that's gonna it's gonna continue to go like that hungry. His words to me back when like things were still pretty bad at Developmental H was that you know he had he had just just just taken over the developmental UH system, and you know he told me that, like, of the problem is that there's no

there's no new talent. The talent that we have. When they're done, there's nobody to replace them, and that should be their number one priority and and until now it hasn't been. They've treated they've done it. His poor job until now of of of developing new talent and triple they might as well let him stay on the endies and then they wouldn't have had to pay guys full time salaries to learn their craft. Well but Hunter's Hunter's argument was,

and I agree, I agree, it's a lot of it is. There's a lot of guys who have had trouble because of bad habits formed on the NDCAM working in front of seventy five people or two hundred people, understanding how different and accepting how different you have to be when you're working in front of fifteen thousand people. That's right, and that sometimes to unlearned things, to get people on learn things can be more effort than just starting with a blob

of clay and molding it from scratch. Yeah, so I don't know you want it's a constant tugle war. I think, Yeah, I've told I've told agents before, like I'll take the worst guy you have as long as he listens to me. Then that guy right there that thinks he knows what he's doing. Yeah. Every Sunday night, catch Wrestling Night in America on Pwtorch Dailycast dot Com, hosted by me Pwtrch columnist Greg Parks. Each week, I'll welcome a co host from the Torch family to discuss the big shows

and pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails. You can listen live most weeks beginning at eight pm Eastern on Sunday nights with a WWE or Impact pay per view, we go on the air. At the conclusion of that pay per view, you can listen live, but of course, the full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs. Visit pwtorch Dailycast dot com and click the live stream link to find the next scheduled live show

link. Search Pwtorch and Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe Wrestling Night in America every Sunday, Pwtorch Dailycast dot com. Yeah, Curtis Axel A few months in, Uh, how you feeling about him? Good? Yeah? Good. I mean I'm gonna be honest with you, like, I don't think he has had a grand slam. Yeah, but I think he had a good solid double Yeah. Uh. You know, I mean he's you know, I when you you know, he's been in developmental he hasn't

been you know, to the big well. He did the mcgilla cutty thing and all that. But you know, when you get your first real push, like, you get nervous sometimes. Yeah, you know, I mean said like I think it's I like it. I think he's feeling good. I think he'll sharpen up on the mic as he gets older. Yea, yeah, you know its sometimes like sometimes you just don't have anything to talk

about, yeah, because you haven't done anything that you know. Yeah, but I don't know, what do you think I'm nervous about whether he's uh got top guy inherent, top guy in factor charisma. Now I am not ruling it out, but it was funny last Friday on SmackDown. You know answers, we're talking and I really my ears perked up when I heard this because JBL was saying, you know, I think Paul Hayman's been spending too

much time thinking about brock Lessner and not giving Curtis Axel enough time. And they were like, maybe after Summer Slime that will change because Curtis Axel deserves more Paul Hayman's attention. He's obsessed with them punk in that match with Lesner and I kind of, you know, I listen to that under two different you know, of two different minds. One is storyline, but the other is I wonder how much is true. I wonder how much Paul thought I

need to get. You know, they're they're thinking Paul is going to work his magic on Curtis Axel after Summer Slim when he has to, because I just I haven't seen the mightas touch on Axel's on air persona yet. I don't. He can't be mister Perfect Junior or Larry the ax Junior. He's got to be his own guy. And I see something different personality wise in

him than Kurt. I don't see a real resemblance to what I saw it Kurt at a younger age in the a w A much less, you know, really, yeah, because I kind of thought he was doing doud He was like kind of uh, you know, probably right where he you know, would be at that point in the game. Like well, I mean, you know, Kurt was really young when he was a w A champion compared to Curtis now, who's into you know, into his thirties, and I bes way easy. But but they didn't start at the same age,

you know, right. But at the same time, I think if you're in your thirties, you should kind of know who you are and I don't sense And again I'm just totally speaking of watching him on TV. Sense Curtis Axel knows who he is yet, and I think fans sense that sure, And I think they're waiting to get all those everything SYNCD up. I understand exactly what you what you're saying. Yeah, and and and it's funny your

your your spot on on that. It's tough, man. People know when when when you're not sure of yourself, yeah, you know, uh they know, yeah, they know. Man, Uh, you don't have the greatest catch phrases in the world or anything like that, but you gotta believe in yourself and and and you know project that to the people and and uh you know, hopefully you get better with that. You know. It's hard for me to not be biased, of course, you know, I hopefully

people understand that that are listening to this. But uh, I'm I'm happy. I'm happy for him. Yeah, you know, uh, maybe maybe they shouldn't just get you know, uh, let him go along at a at a different pace, you know, and not shove them up so fast, because when you shove somebody too fast, people are bound to spit it out, you know what I mean? Yea, yea. So hopefully that's not the case, but you know I would, you know, I just just let him throw them out. It's like throwing somebody in the pool and

let him swim, think or swim. Yep. You know. Nice to have Paul Hayman as your mouthpiece, that's for damn sure. It should take some pressure off, but you also want him to feel pressure to figure out what his voice is too. Yeah, not just you know, rely on

him two months. Okay, this is a fun question, Josh Mustachio to your VFQ member, big Fan. Shown always wondered when you and d X went to Nitro and they didn't let you in the building, what was the plan if they did let you in nothing and we didn't have one, we were gonna we were gonna just do something off the cuff. The thing is is as and I've said this a million times, I told Bruce Pretcher, we need to go down the ramp first. If we do all this other

bs first, they're gonna know we're coming. And when we go down that ramp, they're gonna shut the door on us. And that's exactly what they did. Ye yeah, And we would have we it would have been and maybe that's fine. Maybe that's as far as it should have gone, because I'd hate to put anybody in a situation working for them where they think they

actually got a fight if there's something stupid like that. Exactly. Yeah, you know, uh, because obviously our problem wasn't with any of the talent, you know, it was with it was a w C W and you know and Vince's uh obsession with Ted Turner. Right, Yes, I got a couple of phone calls from Vince during that era, which was which was funny, which like, okay, if if if you can, if you've had that kind of relationship in the past, I can't see why you can't

get an interview with Paula vac in two thousand and thirteen. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was funny about Vince, would you know call me up and I swear there eat you us said, I am surrounded by quotes from Ted Turner by you know, and my assistant gathered them. Wait do

you want to believe how crazy this guy is? And he starts reading me crazy things Ted Turner had, Ted Turner is crazy but anyway, Yeah, but it was just funny He's like, wait, I just you need to know about Ted Turner and how crazy is my My secretary gathered all the stuff for me. Listen to this ten years ago he said this, you know, and then this magazine just six months ago we said this. It was he was obsessed with him. Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting time.

Yeah, well, I mean, you know it's Jens was in trouble man, Yeah, you know, I was. I never doubted that he would that he would be okay though, yeah, because you can only take so many guys, right, you know, And that's all that was what I mean. We were having some good shows too, That's not lie, you know. I mean, it wasn't all about us just stealing talent, steal on talent, but definitely not. I don't know, man, all right,

darnielle uh announces he's gay. And what's the history of that in the wrestling industry as you experienced it. Do you think in the in the mid nineties or throughout the nineties that a wrestler, how would a wrestler have been if he answered a media question like that, whether management knew ahead of time or not, how would that have been taken in the locker room? If somebody was open about it, as opposed to you know, a small circle

knew or nobody knew. It's hard for me to say that because it was it was, It's never been, has never been something that's happened. Yeah, you know, God, I I think it's one of the best things that's happened in a while, to be honest with you. And Uh, it's it's it's somebody that's that's a talented guy, you know. Uh,

he's there on his merits because he's you know, he's good. Uh. He came out the people I was worried about, you know, some dear like vocal minority of assholes Tanton faggot or some bullshit like that, you know, which you never know, he might get some of that down South unfortunately. Uh. And that's something that people should be mindful of. You know, there are the ignorant assholes left in the you know, even in the

business. You know. Uh, he'll I think that Uh, in the past, people would have been just I mean we're talking about wrestling here. Man, We're a weird bunch of people. Anyways, man, you know, uh, I mean people knew if Pat was I mean, he never came out and said, and uh, you know, and in public because he was like an idol for the women. Yeah, you know, he's good looking guy. The women loved him. Yeah, you know, he's

got the good the women, so he get the guy. But are you asking me, like what their attitude would have been about him coming out publicly? Well, how would how would he? How would a wrestler have been accepted in the locker room if he were open about it, if he wanted to bring his his partner, his boyfriend backstage at a pay per view and be treated like everybody else. Is that something that that could have been done in nineteen ninety seven, Yeah, totally, yeah, yeah for sure.

Yeah yeah. And were there wrestlers that you knew of in major company w W, w WWF Global whatever, were who everybody knew and they you know, went in they you know, checked out guys and talked about guys they liked in front of other wrestlers. Are there a guy and other words, other wrestlers who were open about their sexuality if they were gay in the past, well down in Mexico for damn sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that doesn't even count. That's funny. Why it was just culturally because there's

so many of them. Yeah, yeah, there's so many of them, and like some of the bigger even some of the bigger uh, even some of the guys that like women are like, you know an other way too. Yeah, you know, like until Kabla and uh and Triple A, he was known for being pains you know, yeah, pains boy. Yeah, uh in that way. But he was and the women loved him, yeah, you know, and the guys knew what he was doing, he knew why he had he was he was a he was a chippendale dancer.

Yeah, so he had some heat with the guys. Put still treat them like fine. It wasn't nothing, you know, homophobic bull crap. It was just it was just like somebody sleeping with the bus and a heterosexual relationship. Get moving up now, Yeah that's all. But yeah, no, they got the drag queens down there, and they ain't afraid and they'll whip your ass too, and they can go pimp. And La Scarlatta is one of the is one hell of a wrestler. Yeah, but uh, there's

never been. I mean, most of the guys, like I think I honestly are you know, are married too. Yeah. A lot of a lot of those guys. Yeah, but that just without I'm not asking the name name, but are during your times in w WF, did you or the other guy just go yeah, he's not admitting it, but we know, you know who he's gone. We know sometimes he's walking into the hotel room with something, you know, with a guy, or he's you know,

noticing the guy. Is that something that just from up percentage point one or two or three guys at any given time a couple of times, and some of it wasn't I mean, everybody knew about Orlando, yeah, you know, yeah, not really. We had some we had you know, we had a lot of employees, like like the merchandising guy was you know, openly gay, and yeah, you know everybody. I mean, it

was just it was it's it's just really was never an issue. Yeah, nobody was ever like I am working with that guy, right, you know, Well Scott was Scott was nervous about gold death, you know, working Yeah, but that was the perception of the people he was worried about. Yeah, exactly, and he's you know he's look, I looked wait and and you know he I can't talk about Scott's past. I can't talk about mine. Uh. I was sexually abused by by more than one man.

Uh so when I was younger, Even when I moved to Minneapolis, I had instilled in the homophobia. Yeah, you know, I didn't learn until I moved to Minneapolis that gay people are just is the same as as anybody else, right, you know? Uh? And I mean I remember one time who who you know? I lived with a guy named Marvin Reuben and like I walked across I took him, walked across the street with him across hennep In Avenue because I didn't want to be seen walking with him. Uh.

By the gay nineties. Yeah, that was my ignorant you know what I mean. Yeah, it sucks to tad to admit that, but I mean I had experience that made you know, you know what I mean, Yeah, being abused it made me think that, you know, and it was bullshit, all right? Shift shifting gears. Uh but odd Scott, all have you seen Cody wrestle much? And are you uh you can see some real prospect and we're having you had a chance to see Aim money,

of course I've seen him. I've seen everything he's done. Good. Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm one of his mentors. Yeah, so you're still watching his progress absolutely, yeah, even though he's been Yeah for sure. Yeah, we're tagging together, coming up soon. Oh yeah, Scott's going

to be in the corner. Yeah, and uh, you know, we'll hopefully we'll do some Scott, no, some you know, myself, Kevin and Cody who's Scott, you know, so we can have like kind of the Wolf kind of like Jason Bonham played John Bonham's part and read Zeppelin's Yeah, you know it's up. Thank god, Scott still alive. Yeah, No, he's gonna be He's gonna be a huge star man, possibly the man. Yeah, cool, cool. A couple of quick ones and then

we'll wrap up Samoa. Joe might be in a similar spot as aj Styles at some point unless TENA, you know, decides to really hold on him. Is Joe? Do you think Joe would work in WWB? Is there anything about him that would cause triple a spensic man, Kevin done, anybody of influence to go. We don't want this guy. I don't let it give him an opportunity, man, you know, yeah, you know,

there's there's a lot of Samoans in WW right now though. Yeah, but you know, Joe's not Joe. It sounds weird to say this, but Samoa Joe, there's something about him. It looks more like an American Indian than the Samoan. Yeah, he's not he's not Fumaga, he's not off of He's not. No, there's just something he's like. I'm listening to him on Austin Pocket. He's just a cool dude. Yeah, he's just

a cool guy. He just is. He's real. But you don't cross him, like if you I almost think, like if mislic Man has never seen his work, I think Ben should just listen to if you could strip out the name Samoa Joe from the promo and Evans just listened to this wrestler named Joe talk and they edited the audio and he listened to him. He'd be like, Oh, I can do some of this guy. What does he look like? Like, Well, he's a bigger guy. You know, he's kind of a bigger guy. But he's got that mm A credibility

to the way he works, and you know, he's kind. I don't know if you want to say that to Vince, but you know what I say, he's he's a bigger guy. He's not real muscular, but he's got you know, good solid height, a little bit above average. And he carries himself like he's a badass. Yeah, and he can go toe to toe like he can he can get he can be in there with the

biggest of him. You know. That's something Austen said, is Joe's unique in that he can have a credible match with Daniel Bryan or uh sem punk or right back and everyone's gonna believe all three, all three levels a guy. Yeah exactly. Yeah. So I I just think, you know, he get I'm all about like the guy getting the opportunity, you know, bring a guy into what he's got. Yeah, you know, I mean what against him? Besides, he doesn't have the you know, certain body

type. Nothing Yeah, nothing, yeah, nothing except for maybe the fact that he's a TNA guy. Yeah yeah, I don't know, he should be seen as an ROH guy. And sure de tour at TNA. Sure he should probably lead TNA and and UH and go to Japan for a couple of years. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's not fair, it's not great, but just so wash the TNA off of it. Yeah, because I mean I just don't think Vincent Hunter want to think that TENA is their feet

A promotion for that accounts for something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have to wait for the weight Keiller Pro Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of Monday Night Row and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report we'll tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, and it will also analyze key segments and give my random

thoughts end quips on what I'm watching as it airs. So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay perviews. I cover those live at pwtorch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you can find other TV reports from other contributors to pwtorchs such as nxt ROH, Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV and pay per views.

Written reports are cool and then uh is zach Ryder. I get emails on this all the time, so I gotta throw it to you. He gotta push In part this is my answer to people. He got to push above what management things he deserved because he initially he took such initiation on social media. Then after he they sampled him in a promocina, they started to really see the things about him that they felt. This the guy's not a top tier guy's a second tier you know, just utility guy. They put

him back there. He started complaining publicly about it. I think they probably got a little irked, but for the most part just said we got more things for worry about whatever, and they just haven't thought about him since. Is that probably about what happened pretty much? Yeah, yeah, yeah, excuse me, I got a bug in my mouth. I he really was like at that level, and he did what Hunter was saying was lacking in the guys today. Nobody is rolling to dude, go that extra mile or

do something extra special. Fuck, you know, go out on the limb, you know, uh thing that you have to do to set yourself, you know, make you stand out. Yeah, oppose all the rest of him, you know. Yeah, we're running to Bob Holly. Transcript from his couple appearances on the Live cast that in VF. You have to show you about it right now. I just enjoyed that out of talking with him.

You know, I've heard people, you know, I've heard people say, oh, he was an awful guy in w W E total you know, total jerk, volly, he's totally in denial and maybe maybe some guys, but he was always good to me. Yeah. And the thing about him that I'm wondering again, because we're running the transcript, I get more questions about this is what do you think is you're around for most of his

time there? What happened was he just not quite stone called Steve Austin, but kind of of the same mold, a little bit stuff other and a little bit ball, a little bit badass, a little chip on the shoulders, but he just wasn't at Austin's level. So he completely got lost in the mid card Or do you do you think he got the career he deserved. I think he was successful. Yeah, we talked about this before. Yeah, somebody asked stump somewhere before. Yeah, I think he was successful.

Not everybody can be Steve Austin. Yeah, you know, I mean people say, oh, they they should have done more with you when they when they're talking to me, I'm like, they did a lot with me, man, yeah, you know, I mean I gave them a lot of reasons not to do anything with me, and they did a lot with me. Yeah, and they really did. You know, they would have given if I would have been, you know, played ball better, that I could have been way way higher. Yeah, I mean I was even

I was told bad as you know. I mean, so I can only blame myself. But like you know, you know, it's like sediment, you know, everything falls into its into its level, you know. Yeah, And uh, I always thought people like liked Loob. I mean they knew he wasn't the main event guy. Yeah, is there anything he could

have done in the locker room that that would have no? Man, it was on the ring, yeah, and what was on it was I think he could have been had more fire in the ring like at times, or just let it hang out a little bit more, man, you know, just just just give it to him, you know, give it to people.

And I'm really you know, like when I go out there and I just start going, you know, you know, really getting into and you know, moving around and stuff, and like the people they feel they start getting with that, like you know, uh, he never like he was he oh he he was kind of like, you know, not bland, but he only kind of like I said about not switching gears. Yeah, he like that's how he was, like like talking wise and stuff. Yeah,

you know, not that you got to talk too much. But when he was real now like like like like the tough enough stuff, he's way better. Yeah, I know, that's the thing some guys. He's gotta be You gotta be able to make yourself believe it's think it's real, and like to be able to cut a good promo like Ken Shamrocks, a guy who was always better and more money when he couldn't agree more on MMA on USC than when else on the LA came on and wrestling he said, it

don't have to be a wrestler. It's like Tito and uh and what do you call it right now? Rampage? Yeah. Yeah, they look so out of place. Yeah, like kind of like nervousness, you know, yeah here in the head bites type of look you know, yeah, or I have to be something other than what I am because it's wrestling, right Yeah, No, no, they're right end to be like to be Tito or Ts and Rampage Jackson. Yeah. And if they start doing spots it's going to kill him. Oh god, I know they need to work like

black Lusters figured his style out good. You don't see him doing any tackle drop down, get it? You know? Well you know what I mean? I know, yeah, yeah, you can't do that. Come in like that and all of a sudden be a doing pro wrestling, you know. Yeah? All right? My final, uh final topic is John Cen is out now for you know, three five six months? Wow? What what? How much of an impact does this have? And do you think they have from watching you know, Rob and just WW in general and knowing

the roster? Is it Daniel Bryan cm punk Uh? You know Ray comes back? Uh? Like? Do they have Rob and Damn challenging for the world titles? Is that enough baby face power and charisma and bramatos to kind of carry the brands at the end of the year. Yes? Yeah. Is it good for WWE and John Fita to have him out of the out of the way for a while and other people you know fill in that gap? Very good question. Yes, yeah, it's a terrible thing like that.

He got injured so bad. It does suck for their you know, as far as their plans go. But it's going to give a lot of people a big opportunity to try to move up. And and let's see how hungry guys are and and and let's see what guys have right now. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, obviously they don't want to take a big hit in attendance or ratings, or they won't because their brand is

is what sells their shows. Yeah, for the most part in my in my opinion, Yeah, they announced WWE and uh, they don't even announce a card, I know, you know, and they sell they sell a lot of ticket. It's kind of a different world in that respect. Well, that's they did a lot of work and and and getting that brand over. Yeah, you know, that brand is the is the most valuable thing

they have. Yep. Were you were you surprised that Danny Bryan got a clean pit on seen at the time or especially knowing in retrospect he was going to be out for a while. Nope, Yeah, not surprised at all. Yeah, I think they would have done it anyways. Yeah. Uh, and Randy Orton is he is he ready to be the more than anyone else the centerpiece guy for the rest of the year, because I think I think it will be a heel centric Uh, They'll build a brand in a

kind of a heal centric way. Because Randy's just still good. I think that he needs to act like his heel self, and I think the people can't help but cheer him. And I think they should not let him, not have him age a bit, but still have him work with heels. You want him to work. I want him to be Randy Orton, uh in that baby face spot, but kind of like punk because is in a baby face the same The same goes for Randy and because I just the way

Randy and I don't what's money in the bank and that's the gimmick. But the way he won that title and the way he would was unapologetic about the way he won the title. How can how can people in my people are gonna like him? Anyways? Well, I'm not saying, I'm saying if they do the promotion and Randy Orton aren't doing their job, I think they should get Randy over as a heel. I think they need him to be okay, then then then that's awesome too. Yeah, But you're right.

I mean Randy's the biggest star on that show. I mean he's a bigger, bigger star in a lot of people's eyes and Punk and Brian. So people are going to just cheer for a star, and I get that, but I think the new smart fan is booing the heels that they respect and love, not cheering the lead the heels that they respect and love. That's the best way to enjoy wrestling is to be a fan and not just go against everything just to proof our smart yard. It took a while to get

people to start getting with that too, you know. And I think it's I think Randy Orton is so good at what he does, and I think there's there might be a way to get people to say to get the fact that when you cheer a guy you'd like and he's a heal, you're you're pissing on him, okay, And and I'd like I just think of twenty thirteen, it's time for fans. But the baby face doesn't, that doesn't bring it. It's not gonna happen. That's true. That's my whole that's

my whole fear of that. Yeah, that's a good point too. I mean Yeah, you're right. Fans are going to cheer for the guy who's got the most confidence in the most admirable traits and the guy that you know, the fans look up to the most, the biggest star yep, yep, the guy who pairs himself like he is a star and and and can back it up with great work and a rest. Yea cool, Sean,

thank you. I hopefully went long enough where he sounded disappointed an hour and fifteen minutes ago on the show when the Life of Many, I ain't even been counting a cool we're going on. I wouldn't even tell you all two and a half hours. It's great. Catch it up tells you what kind of life I lead these days. Friday night, it just happens everything. You're forty now, so forty one buddy, Yeah, you're in your forties now. Yeah, so you know, nobody expects you to be out partying

nor even apologizing for not being our party. Yeah yeah, I just you know, every now and again, I go out, and you know, for an occasion, but not just for the sake of going out. Yeah yeah, yeah, I don't want to be around a bunch of drunks when I'm not drunk. I don't like drinking or just a bunch of you know, people who are at a different place in life. And sure, yeah,

you know, sure I go to concerts and stuff like that. Yeah, you know, uh like I went saw Corrigan when when Smashing Pumpkins were We're here and you know, they had a big music festival and stuff and you know, cow Heads band played and you know things like that. You know, that's the active in the community of that. Ye. So you know I do at charity stuff. Well it's cool that you might be doing

a podcast too, so keep us up there. Yeah man, yeah, I just you know, it's finding the right people to to be on on board with you on something like that. Yeah, Like I mean I can't do that that alone. I don't have that ability. Uh. And I know there's a lot of great Uh, there's a lot of really talented people people out there on the internet, Wade, Like somebody just sent me.

I mean, just you know, the the you're you're fans, I mean, you're you're subscribers, the people just the people out there like that are on the internet like that that pay attention to us. They are So there's some of those people are so talented at like graphics or video producing or things like that. I mean, it's crazy some of the stuff people have made me. Yeah, yeah, you know, so, Like I just i'ld like to get somebody to like, uh, to do that, to do

that with the podcast thing. Yeah, no, I the readers of The Torch over the years, in so many different ways have they're they're stepping up and saying, hey, I got a special skill and I know you're a small business and I want to help you in this way. It's like the great things for my business. So I know what you're talking about. That's

cool. Here's my dilemma on it, Wade. Yeah, you know how like everything is so you know, add society, short attention span, all this crape, Like, Okay, we just did two hours in thirty minutes. Do you think that that's less people are going to be likely to listen to that being that long? Like or should I like, I mean, if it's it's just hard, like one question for me takes a half an Hourady answered to christ say, yeah, we are only on question five.

No, No, I don't think that's in it. I think it's all about format and it's all about what people respect. I think if you're going to go on YouTube and do a YouTube show, I think if you're at three minutes and fifty seconds, that's probably about the right length for a YouTube show. But if you're going to but if if you want to do a podcast, or someone's going to put it in their car, uh, you know, on their MP three flare in the car for a road trip.

They're gonna take it on the jog, They're gonna take it to the health club, they're gonna put it on while they're doing some housework. Uh, that that format works. I mean two and a half is you know hours is an exception. But I think when you know we are depends on who you're doing it with, like who your guest is too. Well, it does And I said we by definition, our audience is the Torch audience expects an in depth interview, and we've driven away the people who don't want it

and we've attracted the people who do. So it's just kind of an evolutionary thing. You know, people who are people who come to the Torch are going to listen to a long interview. If that's what you're good at, that's what you want to do, then that's what you have a passion for it, and then you do a long one and the audience there will be an audience for it. If that's not what you're going to be good at, then don't do it. But I don't think you should do only you

know, a twenty minute now. I don't think it's possible to be honest with you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So Yeah, I just I believe you do what you do, what you think you're good at, and what you have a passion for, and then try to find, you know, try to make sure the audience that'll that'll like it can find you. Yeah. Cool. Thank you for the advice. I'm that sure. Thank you. Thanks for all your time today too. Don't worry about it,

man, it's always fun, very good. Well, thanks to all the VAT members for sending in your topics and your emails and also sending for calling the show earlier in and yeah, everybody can go to NWL wolfstac dot com too. And according to in according to Sean, buy the damn paper you quit stealing it. Yeah, that would be a good idea. Yeah.

Well here's my thing. Get some friends and chip everybody chipped them for Christ's sakes, yeah, you know, or to go to the Waiting House or Buffalo Wild Wings or whatever the hell the name of the place says, that shows it for free and you know, can buy your soda and nurse your soda the whole time, and don't tip the lady before you leave. No, you got a tip too. That's don't be one of those rests. Well, that's a whole. That's a whole wrap on rests at those places.

Yep. Well, and that's kind of what I feel about paper. If you're if you would go to a restaurant and and if you think you could get away with walking out without paying the bill, or even more so because you feel all the food is marked up so much and they throw so much away in the back, they're not going to really miss anything. So you don't tip, and you don't pay the bill and you walk out, you know, or you have even if you pay the bill but you don't

tip. That's I mean, it's it's a it's an anonymous crime and you can get away with it, but it's kind of dick it. It's flame of shit, man. Yeah, it really is, like people should be ashamed of theirselves that do that kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean I don't you know, I mean they really should. Yeah. I My comeback

to that too is it's my old Sam Goody analogy. If Sam Goody hadn't raised a price of CDs from eleven ninety nine to twenty six ninety nine for a new release right before the bubble burst on CDs and that after came around,

then people want to ben looking for something reasonable. And my counter argument everything you said and I've said so far is WS be careful and ufcs to be careful when people feel gouged, when they feel that they love a product and they feel an ownership in it, and they feel that the corporation has taken advantage of it just to please Wall Street and they're gouging them in order for them to see their favorites and something that they're invested in, then they

rebel and they look for free places to see it. And so my counter argument to that is the promoters and the corporations that run these shows, they have to keep the price as low as they can. Well, well they have to give him as Losy can will still making a healthy profit, but don't test the fans by gouging them because they will rationalize at that point finding other means to get it and the technologies out there. So that's my counterar

give it to it speak and it's a good one. And speaking of which, I gotta give it up to Kid Rock for for his dance like on the on the Rolling Stones with their with their outrageous concert ticket prices and and you know his are like fifteen dollars or something crazy like that. Yeah, you know, I mean, I just think that's is how much money more money the Rolling Stones need for Christis? I know, I know, I know what you're saying. Yeah, all right, man, cool, Thanks

Sean, Thanks the IPP members. Hopefully Sean will be back soon when we've got more stuff to talk about the rest of the world Keeper turning forward. Absolutely have a go one Buddy VP sale alert. We're running a sale going into all in and all out as we conclude the summer, and you can get nine dollars off any v IP subscription, which brings a one month subscription

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