INTERVIEW CLASSIC: Keller talks with ex-WWE Creative Team Member Matt McCarthy about Cinematic Style WWE matches, NXT vs. AEW so far, more

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is a professional stand up comedian. He's been on Conan O'Brien and many commercials over the years, but also worked behind the scenes of DEBI to be in a big progressing fan, provided his insight into WWE's booking approach from his experience working there and observing them for a very long time for each of the scheduled matches on the upcoming Horror Show at Extreme Rules pay per view, I

had kind of forgotten about that. He also talks about the booking strategy going into the Drew mcintarytell Zigler match, the I for an I match with Roy Mysterio and Seth rollins a Paula Cruise against MVP Oscar against Sasha Banks for the Raw title, and also Bailey versus Nicky Cross for the SmackDown title. And then in the previously VP exclusive after show portion, we talked about the AW versus NXT battle to date so far less than a year in with a focus on aw's production values in

grading their presentation of several of their top stars. So a wide ranging interview here with Matt McCarthy hope you enjoyed.

Even yeah, Roddy and gold dust. Yeah, I guess it's funny to think gold dust is kind of the was the father of these things with those back to back, but at any rate, yeah, I mean, the swamp match. I don't know, we'll see it. Put it this way, with a j and Undertaker, I didn't know what a boonyard match was. And I loved it. I loved it up and down and all around. And there really wasn't

There really wasn't any goof to it at all. When when it's Bray and Braun, I worry about there being some goofiness to it, just just because Braun, I mean, Braun's kind of goofy, and Vince makes him into such a you know, superman, that there are going to be illogical feats of strength. I would assume, you know that that happened just on that would happen on raw like on a good day, bron Strowman, you know, can lift

fifteen tons of steel. But the I don't know. The only thing that I don't like the regression of Bray's character. You know, he's back in the swamp. They just kind of Vince's I don't know, taking his foot. I don't. I don't know it's even realize that the you know, the Fiend character even happened. I have just completely nobody remembers he was the Fiend. He's a guy from the slump with a hat, but I I have high hopes just because I think they've done a fairly good job.

My worry is always what kind of goofy sound effects they're gonna use, because I assume that there is going to be, you know, the sounds of wildlife. I do want Braun to wrestle an alligator at some point. I think it's a perfect opportunity for Steve Kern to make a cameo a skinner. But we'll see, we'll see, we'll see what happens. But I don't know the bray element lends, you know, just the fact that they're calling it a

horror show. I already know what Vince McMahon's idea of comedy is, and it's for anyone who doesn't know, it's it's someone getting their foot stuck in a bucket. That's that is high comedy for Vince. But with the horror stuff, I mean, look, no, I was never a big fan of the Firefly fun House. I think that rained a little goofy too, but it was also you know, the fiend stuff was scary. So we'll see, we'll see, hopefully

it is. You know, I don't know, they've always kind of done even when Randy showed up at like, you know, Bray's house and they had that fight in the kitchen and the and all that stuff. I really like that. So we'll see what happens with this one. But I'm I'm more positive on it than than I am, Like you know, die versus eye for an eye think, but we'll see, We'll see what happens.

And oh, well, let's you know you could I can't even I mean, I can imagine, but the brainstorming session that led to horror Show as a nickname, but this seems like, you know, they're they're trying to use gimmick agree to get you to pay attention to them right now at a time when you know, I think they fear your attention might wane and you might cancel your network, and so they want to create these curiosities and understandably so,

you know, like I mean cinematic matches. I don't think they're going to work really well if they go on when there's people who paid, you know, hundred some dollars for their ticket and they're staring at a big screen for an extended period of time. But I think during this era, even I I should say even I, but like I feel like my parameters for what what I should even not just accept be grudgingly, but embrace has

has expanded. You know, desperate times call for desperate measures and doing something so outside of the box of this Often normally I'd be like, come on, you know, this is kind of undercutting the foundation of what makes kind of pro wrestling as a you know, structurally kind of work. And yet I think they get a good grade so far for all they've pulled it off. Actually, I want to step back to just a wider lens for a moment.

And you mentioned the undertake er A J. Stout saying is is, does cinematic wrestling appeal to people who otherwise wouldn't watch wrestling? And does it turn off people who have a certain idea of what wrestling should be? And how do you think that is playing out? Putting even just kind of your personal enjoyment aside? Do you think there's a that it's bringing in new fans on the bright side, but it might be turning away some people who are like, this is not what I tune in for.

Although looking back now, where we're at an age where a traditional fan grew up with you know, the horsemen jumping Dusty in the parking lot, albeit that wasn't a match, but they were we were already getting into the era of going outside of the arena. The casual fan, it's always a u in the air, or like the non fan, it's always up in the air. Because on the one hand,

I could see them digging. I could see the person who thinks that it looks less fake than wrestling in the ring, just because some people just conditioned to think wrestling in a ring is fake. And probably the other end of that, or similar to that, would be it looks a little bit more like an action movie. They could accept that more. But I think the other end

of that would be part of it. Part of it could look like, you know, a fight seeing on a soap opera, you know what I mean, the way that it's shot, because it's not shot you know, like I don't know. I mean, it's just the way that it looks on video although you know things because it's just the way that it's shot. You know, it doesn't look like an episode of Life Out or something or you

know whatever, law and order and stuff like that. It has a little bit more of a soap opera, you know, shot on I don't know if it's the cameras or sliding or if it's both or whatever, but so there is that aspect to it, like the aesthetic thing, but I mean I go off of what my wife would like, and my wife does not like wrestling. In fact, your catchphrase when it comes to it is always met. I have tried, but you know there are certain things like

you know, put it this way. I showed her Orange Cassidy versus Pack, and then she started following Orange Cassidy on Instagram because she was like, this is amazing. We didn't watch the Boneyard match, but I could see maybe that having some appeal. But I could also see it, you know, she's she's just such a student of television that I could see her picking out the fakeness to

it because it's strange. There is something the thing that makes professional wrestling that I think guys like us and people listening appreciate is that the fact that they can do it all in one tape to a I don't want to say untrained eye, but people who haven't it's

an acquired taste. I think with pro wrestling compared to fight scenes in movies, because it's actually much easier to see the trickery watching like an action movie where they cut so much and they they shake the camera so much where it's like they're trying to hide those things.

Whereas that I feel like, especially in an American audience, not maybe even just worldwide, because we all basically have the same movies and shit, have gotten used to this is what a fight looks like, you know, this is what a punch sounds like, Whereas it's you know, it's just it's it's just kind of that cherry candy thing like we all we all know what like, ooh, cherry candy, this is what but you n an actual cherry You're like, oh, this is not what it tastes like at all. I

don't know, it's just I don't know what. I should watch the Boneyard match with her actually, just to get her opinion on it. But I mean, it's just for me as a fan. I think it's exciting and they're

doing it well. And you know, because the Hearty Compound stuff was fun, it was and it emphasized fun more than anything, Whereas I think we've we're getting into a place where basically there was no laughs in the Boneyard match, and I think that that works too, Like we can do and this is interesting that they're you know, I mean it's Vince Vince to the promoter, give them something to promote, like, Oh, it's gonna be a horror show. Yeah, it's gonna be like Halloween. What's better?

more benefits through Patreon. Let's pause, ands at the table and introduce ourselves. This is the Wade Keller prog Wrestling Podcast. It's a Thursday edition previewing the Backlash Horse Show pay per view on Sunday. The voice you hear is Matt McCarthy. He is a frequent guest here on the Wadekeller shows for years and years now. Can you believe how long it's been met since you've worked for Dowe?

past interviews. And it's always you always find there's always something happening today where there's something that happened to you with your time on the creative team that you can pull, pull an anecdote or an example about man in that adds some color and layers in a analysis and perspective to why things are happening today that might be wildered some people. So great to have you on the show, Mat, Oh.

would throw me some assignments. I would write things up, so you know, not that I can take credit for everything that I was involved in, but you know, I wrote things like the Daniel Bryan Caane anger management segments or you know, leading up to uh MS, and like I wrote the Miss Maurice parodies of of of Total Bella's stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah.

I again, it was you know, at the time, I was like, you know, because I'm I've been doing the Wee Watch Wrestling podcast since I left h w WE and and but I couldn't report with those guys, and you know, I they would often often say to me, you're the only ex writer who still loves wrestling. I don't know how true that is. If you follow Gen Bloodsworth on Twitter, she's she's she's just the best. I didn't work with it directly, but we became we became fast friends. Uh Once I was back on the outside

of the real world in the comedy world. But you know, obviously Kevin Ex still loves it too. He's over at Ring of Honor. But yeah, you know, lifelong wrestling fans and uh, you know comedy actor did a lot of stuff with college humor. You know the Batman videos with Pete Holmes. I was on a p home show. That's really what I left WW to move out here and do h He had a short lived talk show after Coning, and then I've since gotten, uh the opportunity to performance

sketches on Coning quite a bit. You know, a lot of commercials and you know, stand up and all that stuff, and always pop it up somewhere. I always every once in a while, the other guys will be on TV and I'll get a text from somebody or a tweet and they'll be like, oh my god.

over the place. It's just two friends, you know, hanging out and talking. You know this last time, God, what do we get into on Wednesday? We were talking about I don't know, We're always just like goofing about like brock Lesnie looking for his reading glasses or like whole Covid leaving voicemails for vincemick Man, trying to get back on TV and stuff. I mean, it's just like it's you know, and you know, and you know, I spent a lot of time with Vincick man, so I have

my Vince Oh god, yes, you know. It's just it's a lot of fun. So so check that out. I highly recommend it. And yeah, we watch wrestling available wherever wherever podcasts are sold.

variety of approaches to doing them it is? Do you think they should just do more like go go more in or all in if you can't have, uh, you know, an an arena full of fans, because this works better than what they're doing otherwise, where are you on that?

I think about it, it was one. I was thinking of Mania that they had the two, but they were on different nights, so it's kind of just the one and maybe one is enough because even though it was in the performance center, you know, the the Edge and Randy Jorton, you could make the argument was a cinematic match because of the cuts and the retakes and the you know, piped in noise and the Howard Finkle bs. But I don't know, like the money in the bank

was good and bad. Like I ultimately I really enjoyed it. But again, when Vince goes for laughs, it's always well the fact guys eating food, you know. But I love I love going out an adventure, you know, and I love when pro wrestling does that for me, like I miss world class and the character profiles are just like going to the Freebird's house where they're shooting pool and making fun of Van Erks, you know, that type of thing.

So I feel like there's a place for doing an entire match like your little mini movie on the pay per view, like a boneyard, like a stadium stampede. But also I feel like going in the direction of the World's Greatest wrestling match was a good direction of going not necessarily for the in arena matches. I think I still prefer a one take wrestling match, you know, warts and all. I'm a deadhead, like I just want to listen to something unedited and see did it work, did

it not work? You know? I like that. That's the music of pro wrestling. It's jazz. It's if they go out there and they try things and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and that's the art in it. But I think the direction that they went in, what I'm getting at is I would love to see some more utilization of smaller pieces, some smaller than yettes. Not the vikings and the and the the what are they? It's not private party. They're the street profits. The street profits.

Thank you. It's just like two teams with the same gimmick started at the same time. In my head, I don't like, wait, wait, which is a party? Yeah?

people have done, and this is what we've done. And because I think when as a quick aside, when Vince gets hung up on what other people have done, he immediately dismisses it and says, well, we'd never do that. Oh God, the last thing we do. So thank goodness that he has been able to. Thank goodness, somebody convinced him that it was his idea, the cinematic matches, that it didn't start in W cw ort and A, that he's the one who came up with it or a w.

It's like there is so much depth to that guy beyond just you know, the guy who makes mistakes all the time all the time. You know that that that type of thing there is there is they There's so much that they could be doing that they just aren't. And that will never make sense to me. Why sometimes it's just Vince's Vince's just Vince. You know that's sometimes that's the only answer we get. Vince and Vince, you know.

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they weren't here. How long they would need to stretch out the footage they had, and they did more, you know, memorable things that were pre taped. And now they've moved back to you know, on the way to the arena right down. Six matches and three promos. Point the camera at the ring, and then let's see how it plays out,

you know, real low elbow grease production. What do you think of WWE specifically and how they've how the atmosphere has progressed with audience members and the plexiglass and the enhanced crowd noise and all of that.

fakest sounding thing I have I've ever heard. I mean, like when I worked there, we were doing the like one one raw I got a signed when Will Sasso and the other guys who played the Three Stooges when they when they did a Three Stooges remake, I was just mortified because I was like, they are going to add in like goofy sound effects to this, like I knew it going in and then sure enough that's what aired, and it was like, I don't even remember. We must have.

I must have been in the room with with like Sasso and then watching it. Now, there's no way I would have been a gorilla. But at any rate, I don't remember specifically, but like SASO's a really funny guy, and he's he's a really meticulous performer, and it's a perfectionist, you know. I mean, that's the bottom line. He takes

what he does very seriously. And I can't remember specifically him being like what the hell were those sound effects, but I'm pretty sure that that was exactly what happened, And I just kind of was like, dude, I'm just

happy I didn't get yelled at. Thanks for being a good sport, But I mean, I don't wwe cannot help themselves sometimes in making the product when they try to enhance the hurt and when they I was such I was so relieved when they finally added in in audience members and then very quickly was like, oh, this is terrible because it's like it's just so fake. It's just it's because they're wrestlers. They're trying to get noticed. They're also young in the company and everybody is everybody in

that place is terrified of making a mistake. It's like walking on glass. There's heat everywhere and you don't and there's no consistency, and you don't know how you're going to screw up next. But sure enough, somebody is going to get Like you never know what's the thing that Vince is going to fixate on, you know, or orkd or whoever whoever. You know, it just a trickles down and I can feel it in them trying to act excited during the show, and it comes off so phony

and contrived. There's no reason, like a group of scattered people who aren't actually fans would start channing this is awesome, Like it makes it so much phonier. Whereas like, aw did it so well with like the wrestlers because it was just you know, they stayed true to themselves. It's like Penelope ford is on her Chaise lounge just hanging out.

MJF is still MJF. Austin Gunn is a spas. So it was great you had the gun Club acting spastic, But like when you watch WWE, it feels like the entire crowd is Austin guns all just like flipping out and going crazy, and it's like, this match isn't that good. You're not actually being genuine with me about how you're reacting to this match. You know. It feels like it's it's the way people act when they know that they're being scrutinized, and that's you know, so it's it hurts it.

I mean, I hope, I hope nobody shows Vince footage from your Japan Cup and from UH Dominion because that room felt full. It was a quarter capacity and that room felt full. And Vince is if he sees anything anyone else is doing, he's going to do it too, and he's going to do it better. It's like, oh, well they had a full arena, we can do a full arena. It does give me hope though that Mania will be in in LA. But yeah, but we'll see. I don't know. If I don't know, i'll be it

Mania in LA. But we'll see what happens, you know.

so little nervous about things. But but you know, in what AW has done with Daily's place in the in what they have there versus w B with with the PC and the evolution of the setting and what they did with the lighting and the staging and the camera angles. I mean, it is crazy different now than it was those you know, the on the transition in late March and early April when everyone was kind of shell shocked

about this and they didn't have time to adjust. And I've gotten pretty used to it, you know, some of the critiques of how people respond, I'm with you on but when I'm watching a wrestling match in the big screen in the stages in the background, and you know, whether it's NXT's kind of dark background lighting or WWE with the you know, kind of colored high energy lights

along the border, and then you have crowd noise. Now I don't I mean, obviously it would be better with a crowd, but I don't get hung up on it as i'm watching it if what they're doing is good otherwise.

what he does. But there was I was so used to I just loved listening to the Japanese commentators because I didn't know what they were saying, so I was not distracted by the match, but their energy came through and the excitement would come through, and so it was very It was like this perfect it was like this perfect marriage of being able to watch and feel.

Todd Martin's signature VIP series. That you're missing out without a VIP membership. So go vip here in twenty twenty two and enjoy all the benefits, all the ONUS content and the ad free listening experience. PW Torch dot com slash go v ip Okay, Well, I don't know where we are, but let'steer back to UH to All Horsees show, so specifically on Bray and Braun. What kind of shenanigans are finish or mission should there be for this match?

I mean, it could be as simple as a self contained let's just have fun with the creative freedom of cinematic wrestling, that is, unleashing crazy ideas we could never execute without post editing and multiple multiple takes and all that, and let's just have fun with it and then go from there. Or is there a greater purpose storyline wise for the characters? Do you expect Braun to be pulled into Bray's web again now that he's you know, with

the cult leader again? Who you know? Braun said, maybe foreshadowing I've been I've been running away from who I was then for a long time, almost making its on like it's an effort. And you know, he said there's things about that brawn that he enjoyed and he misses, and you know, does he go heal? Is that a big angle or is there some other angle that that justifies and amplifies the need and anticipation for a summer slim rematch with the Fiend? Does the Fiend show up

in the swamp? Do we have you know, bray White in multiple places with multiple personalities? Does Otis show up with the money in the bank and cash in opportunistically? Uh, in some form of fashion. I mean, I think there's a lot of ways this could go, some more creative than we want, others less creative than we want. What what do you kind of anticipate in that regard in terms of where we are then afterwards with that, with that, with those two characters in particular.

thinks like it wouldn't. It doesn't make sense why you go from the swamp match to then, well, the only way we can settle this is in a regular match in a ring. It's just it's there's no heightening. It's like we're going backwards. So, but Bray is also.

a disappointment there. So it's it's also it's just I don't know, I don't know what you do with with the Fiend. It's so I don't know. I didn't even

consider Otis being involved too. But it's like, I do love the idea of Otis on like one of those swamp boats with like the giant fan in the back, you know, just him like cruising around trying to look for somebody, you know him like maybe even maybe even like Bray finds an alligator, wrestles it, or bron finds an alligator, wrestles it, kills it, and then Otis by the end, he just pulls up and finds the alligators just like, oh, free meat. And then you just see

him all week on Instagram cooking alligator by the way week. Yeah, if anybody is not following Otis on Instagram, uh, do yourself a favor. His his story. It's just him cooking meat every day. It's the bed.

don't like, it's just such a regression. It feels like and it's always like people associated with the Wyatt family, who is not Ron Strowman. It's always you know, Luke Harper and Eric Groener getting the singles push but we're going to put them back together. You know, it's just Bray Wyatt. So he's a badass and he's just going a job to you know, Undertaker and Goldberg, and you know,

we're not building for the future. And then the I mean the rebuilding and the rebranding of Wyatt as the Fiend and how interesting and new and fresh that was and how quickly Vince just turned off the gas is just I mean, it speaks volumes. It's so it's so typical of that place. It's incredible. So I don't know, I'm trying to just go one show at a time. Yeah, and just I just want to see what what the hell they're going to pull out of their their their

hat with the Swamp Thing. Who knows, maybe Swamp Thing will throw up, maybe that'll be that'll be good. Maybe maybe yeah, Like Bray White gets you know, lit on fire with chemicals and then he jumps into the swamp and then that's how he turned into the scene in the first place. Who knows I'm in tatnything.

a wrestling commission that you know? I mean, I'm just it's one of these things where I'm like I can even accept you know, ten years ago the ladder match for the custody of the kids. But now it's we've gone to the place now where it's the only way to win is to maim someone, to blind someone, to like you like, and you can't. And it's just the functionality of it too, of like like, well, the referee

can only call what he sees. You have to show the eye to the rest, he has to examine it and be like is this his I let me double check make sure that this guy has an empty eye socket, you know. And then on top of that, just the special effects that they're going to use is the most morbid curiosity rubbernecking thing. I cannot wait to see this and and also never put it past Vince to have that end in a no contest, you know, like Ray Wyatt got ah dq'ed from a hell u sl.

they going to pull this ship off? And how goofy is it going to look? Because there's no I can suspend my disbelief when people get irish whipped into the corner, when they bounce off of the ropes, when they just stand there wait for somebody to jump on top of them, I can. I can. I can do the math in my mind of how this fits in this game of

human chests that we call pro wrestling. You know, I can accept those things, but when it's I don't know, man, when he's just Brown's is going to reach under the mask and pull out a mad ball and he's just gonna be like, look I got his eye. I win, you know. Then and then what the fake audience is going to It reminds me of when at Mania fifteen, what Undertaker like hung a boss Man from his neck from the hell in a Cell and it's one of

my favorite transitions ever, Like the man's dead. He's literally hanging from a noose from the cage, and Michael Cole is like, is this an effigy? Is this a symbol? Is this is he symbolically hanging the entire corporation? A beat? A beat, a beat? And then Cole's just like, well, fans, we've had amazing MENI a week, we had the two K run, we did the five and it's just like the man is still hanging dead, yeah, and shows up

on TV like two or three weeks later. I'm just like, this is this is beyond And then that's the you know, everybody wants the attitude there back. I'm like, guys, come.

Because Seth the prior versions assessed or to hit a ceiling and you know, Vince and the writers got bored writing for maybe Seth even got bored with it and it wasn't just taking off, so yeah, let's try something different. Is he pulling this off well? Or is this just kind of boring and and and a little too much of a downer watching him do his thing?

And then then they start this character and I'm just like all those things combined with this rather boring character have two and it's just it's it's I don't know. I also I just ultimately I don't like when Vince plays with you know stuff or like you know, religious implications, like you know, when Austin was on the you know, Undertaker symbol and it looked like he was being crucified or like now upset the Messiah. It's just like or Vince himself wrestling God. It's just like what what what

is what is the need? What is what? What is what is the statement? What is going on here? Just like it's just it's it's uncomfortable and it's confusing, and it's just it's one more allins his character is one more piece and this you know thing that Vince has with you know I maybe it is just purely Vince's massive ego. Like he is, he's he's upset that anyone else does wrestling, but he's also upset with the idea

that there might be a higher power. I mean he literally he made himself the higher power on Raw one. He's just like it was me, I'm the higher power, you know, I'm the one. It's just like the idea that there might there might be a god out there, that there's anything that Vince can't control. You know, how long did he pretend there wasn't a coronavirus? And now it's just like this, this this theme keeps coming up where he's got like he's got a major resentment against God.

You know. I'm just like, I don't know. So it brings up all of that for me as well. But I don't know, I don't Seth isn't He's just not the most compelling character on a good day for me. And then all those things that I mentioned leading into this, I'm just like, just shut up and wrestle, you know. I'm like, I just yeah, I don't know. You know, does that make sense?

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and pay per view written reports. What's the best use of Seth rowlins you've seen or the best use of Seth rollins if you were to have influence on transitioning him to a long term role and is he a top is he a top three heel or top three baby face or do you think he's like in the next three you know, kind of long term also in terms of where you end up placing him, he was a.

a lot of people talking crap about the companies. Just like, dude, shut up, like shut up already, like plea, just read the scripts that they give you and shut up, you know. I mean, there's no better way to put it. It's just like this. It's like you company man, like like god, get bent. I'm just like but like when his character was a company man and he was using the authority and it was it felt scripted and was just like

not who he actually is. Then I found it much more enjoyable when he had like the two stooges with him, when he was you know, the I never I when I when the shield, when I was getting close to what you know, it looks like the shield's going to break up. He was the guy I was worried about. It felt like he was going to be the odd man out because it was like Rome's the chosen one

and Mosley is the most compelling. I thought that Rollins was the best in ring worker, but I was worried that he was just you know, he's still My concern was that he still had the ring of honor Indie guys stink on him, and that it was like, he wants to work his own way. He's not going to listen, He's gonna wind up, like you know, tossed the side like they did with Chris Harrow and a million other guys,

and instead they actually went with him. You know, Dean becomes the odd man out essentially, even but he was still so compelling, he was able to transcend so much of the craft that been shoveled on him. But clearly their mistake, they booked him right out of the territory,

you know. But it was just so I think, I don't know, I don't know what Rollins could do to recoup himself, like in my mind as a viewer, because like I've said, there is a lot of preconceived baggage that comes to mind when I see him walk out, and there is a there is a certain distaste for it, and and ultimately I'm like, you know, I'd rather see somebody else in those top positions now, you know, as great as his matches are, I'm just like every there's

just a lot of baggage, you know. I mean, yeah, that's the bottom line for me. Yeah, No, I don't know what, Yeah, I don't know how to rehab that because it's it's I'm the one bringing it to the table.

you don't understand. I mean, there's you could write an essay explaining for school why Seth Rawlins is who he is now compared to who he was a year ago. So at least they have that going for them. I'm not sure if Lacy Evans is heading back heel if being cheated out of a karaoke contest when is has the depth that we need compared to maybe the Seth transition.

There is there is that pro wrestling element of but you do you need because Seamus was not He's He's got a lot of personality, but especially then, you know, I mean this is ten years ago. He was you know, brand new and probably worried that he was going to make a mistakes. You know, anybody who gets brought into that place does. But the uh, the thing that worked

there was something too like that. Who was it? Who was it that was in the They were like in competition for like a like a Japanese shampoo commercial or something. Was it like Booker T and Edge or somebody? Or do you remember this? This was like twenty years ago now, No, do you remember this? Like I remember Jijii was like directing the commercial or running the auditions or something. Somebody

was I'm sure people listening or screaming it. Yeah, But so look forward to a weekend full of tweets of people being like it was Booker T and Edge? How do you not remember this, but like small things can. It's, in my opinion and my experience, wrestling works well when the stakes aren't so high. You know, the someone's eyesight is maybe too high of a stipulation, the custody of a child is too high of stakes. But it's there was something that almost worked about it, as goofy and

nonsensical as it was. But I don't know. I don't know if the karaoke thing is is I guess we'll have to see where it goes. But there is there is precedent for it working. But again, it always depends on the performers. And Lacy's not, you know, the greatest, let's say, but I don't know, man, I never say never. That's the number one rule. That's the number one rule Pro wrestling.

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being annoying. It gives drough a hopefully solid, clean, decisive win over someone who can take great bumps and make him look like a million bucks. I'm okay, I'm okay with this so far. How about you?

or whatever. And then it just kept not happening, and they just kept He was always the example too that I would hear Vince like be like, oh, you can recoup anyone, you can rehab anybody, you can rebuild anyone. And it's like, yeah, but it's the boy who cried Wolf, Like You're like, nobody, nobody thinks that Dolf has a chance of winning that title. The only thing that's compelling to me is it's gonna be a great match. It won't have that could he win heat to it? But

I mean again, anything can happen. But I don't see put it this way, I don't see Drew losing the belts until you know there's a COVID vaccine, Like, I just don't see them. And then by them, I mean Vince moving on to somebody else is like, you know, the face of things, it's just I just don't. And his coronation was I mean, poor Drew. It's just you know, he's doing great stuff and and Dolf is doing great stuff too, and I and I love the Heath Slater promo.

But the you know, thet look bell, the bell, that's gonna be a great match. I would think I'm expecting it to be. I hope that I'm not disappointed, because typically expectations can do that sometimes with w W A. But yeah, I mean, it's it's it's it's it's a transition pay per view, and who knows, maybe Randy will get involved and then it'll be a bunch of you know bs leading into that, because it seems it seems pretty well agreed upon that that must be the direction

they're going for SummerSlam. But who knows. We'll see how.

dinged up again. But you know that the thing with Randy is he's just he's so good, but he doesn't have to work for his spots, and so he can go into cruise control sometimes and it doesn't feel like it doesn't feel like a Randy Savage where he would save things for the big shows, and sometimes he'd be like, Randy's got a better match them than that Randy Savage. I mean, where you watch Randy Orton and you know that he's got a better match in it in him

than that. But it's it's it makes me wonder is it that he's saving it or is he just kind of checked out? And there are times when, I mean most of the time with Randy, it feels like he's a little checked out. But I don't know, maybe just the fact that he's another one that's I recommend following him on Instagram. He's just and his wife they are

they really cracked me up. He's Randy is always having a good time or he's always like he's always going to point out he's like, well, my my private jet whatever. He's just like, it's just he's perfect for that. But you know, as of late, he has been very compelling. You know, I tend to agree with you. So let's see hopefully like a big well, I guess what I was trying to get up before, is I wonder if

he is enjoying there not being fans there. You know, he seems like the kind of guy who just you know, you always see him kind of like turn his shoulder to the audience of just like just get it, get out of here, just let me do my thing. So and then the fact that you know he can kind of you know, the that that it is the developmental talent is the you know, buy and large the audience. Now there is a I don't know, I think that

I think he gets off on bull bullying. Might be too strong award, but then you know, you look at that exchange he had with what's his name, you know, grabbing him screaming at him that thing. But I don't know, I think he gets off on that like yeah, like you people have to cheer for me type of thing.

But like like like like we were talking about with Rollin's, I think Randy is somebody who can very quickly turn on the audience and be like screw you, like with the light, you know, like that thing that happened at Mania last year, or it was like people were being blinded, and then like he was just furious that It's like how dare you stop paying attention to my match type of thing. Whatever. I think he's also I don't know that he's a perfectionist, but he might be because there is.

There is that tendency of like people who I either want it perfect or I don't want to do anything at all.

I just I'm very very happy for him in particular. Yeah, for sure.

at pw torch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think of what we're saying, and let us know what you want us to talk about and ask us specific questions. Wadkeller Podcast at pw torch dot com. The MVP is that just sort of they're setting them up for Paula Cruz to beat him, and it's pretty straightforward and they move on.

not liking having a crowd. I bet a Polo Cruse is a number one guy in line for that, because the audiences were not giving him a chance and it kept derailing what was otherwise I think good baby Face work on his part, not great, but good, and now he's having a chance to kind of without the crowd not reacting and vinsco and pull the plug, pull the

plug on this, you know, the bagwell Booker moment. He's getting it, actually get some TV time and maybe earn through just persistence their respect to the fans that maybe deserves us the spot that he has right now.

in the ring. And it's just that thing at WWE when they get inside somebody's head and it's just like, you know, I just hate it when it becomes obvious that they are in their heads that they've gotten I mean, it's kind of that thing that's like it reminds me of every time Rick Flair tells the stories about being in WCW in the nineties when he went back and it was just like they just slowly chipped away at his confidence, and all of a sudden he's just like,

I don't know how to Like, of all people, Rick Flair Is just gets to the point where he's like, I don't know how to wrestle. I don't know how to do this anymore. It's like that is that these are artists. They're athletes, but they're also these are very sensitive artists who are doing their thing. And I mean when I work there, I was blown away at how insecure the wrestlers are. And but it made total sense

once I once I saw it. I was like I remember saying to like friends at Stanancho's, I'm like, they're like, how are the wrestlers. I'm like, they're more insecure than comedians and they couldn't believe it. And I was like, look, you don't put on three hundred pounds of muscle because you're comfortable with who you are. You know, so on top of being a performer, they're also athletes. It's just this perfect marriage of of and it's and it's and it's it's much like stand up there is that the

crowd reaction is instant approval. You know, you're living and dying on the approval of the audience of the gratification of you know, the just it's it's it's a complete art form centered on acceptance. You know. It's the same thing with with with live comedy, where you're just like, you know, give me that laugh, Okay, now give me another one. You know. Oh they're not laughing as much. Oh God, they hate me. And so I think I

think he nailed it. I feel like Apollo. God, I hope, because it's once you get the old man behind you, if if you're not a new toy, and he doesn't get bored, you know, like a Damien Sandou he was. He's one of the worst tragedies of w W because he came in, you know, not to sound like Miley Cyrus, but he came in like a wrecking ball and he he was he was able to He was the voice of Vince. You know, Vince didn't write those promos, but that was like Vince loves this because this is how

Vince views the common man, you know. And then eventually he got bored. And then Damien was never the same, you know. He he jobbed out to d X on RAW one thousand and then never recovered and again with somebody that I don't even know. I don't I wouldn't even I wouldn't even say that he visibly lost his confidence on TV because he didn't everything they gave him to do, he excelled at like even like when he

was Missus Stunt Double. That was one of those things where I was just like talk about taking you know, chicken shit and turn it into chicken salad, that type of thing where it's just like in anyone else's hands. It's like it's like the undertaking gimmick. It's like no one else could have made that work. And I don't think anyone else could have made the Stunt Double work. It was just like, you know, and and again it was just like that's another one of the tragedy I

mean whatever. I mean, it's it's a shame that NWA Power is is, you know, on permanent hiatus because there were so many guys you know, Aaron included, but like you know, the Eddie Kingston's or everybody on that roster. I was just like so happy that they were getting a platform and getting exposure because it's just like like when I heard that Aaron was basically he's like, oh, I'm done with wrestling I'm just going to go into acting.

It broke my heart because I'm like, he could have been the top, Like he just needs somewhere to perform. Just let him be a top guy. I don't know if Apollo's Apollo is someone like like I was talking about before when they did the NX, you know, kind of Vignanza profiles like who is this guy his sit down interview talking about his story and his family life growing up, and I'm like, this guy is compelling, you know, and he's got the look and he's got the moves.

It's just like, how is he not Vince's guy?

it's like then he couldn't get anything right. It was just like that place we'll get inside your head and turn your brain into Swiss cheese and then blame you for not having the confidence that you used to it. It's mind boglin, mind boglin.

was a good place for that. But it was like like with Christian, I couldn't believe it when like at first I was like, oh God, the top heels Christian, And then I would see his work and I was like, oh my god, he is a top guy. You know, why did I not see it before? And then he came back to WWE and just couldn't quite break that ceiling and him and Randy had like Orton had like the best match of whatever year that was. It was twenty ten or twenty eleven I can't remember, but and

then the one More Match gimmick. It was just like Christian was just you know, so when Lastly came back and this is an awkward time, and you know, they immediately saddled him with you know, the that Lana Russev gimmick and it's just like this is weird. Why are you doing it this way? I don't know it's it, but it reminded me of that guy leaves, becomes something amazing, comes back and then they're like, eh, you're just gonna be you know. It's like with John Morrison's gedible to me.

He leaves for years, just like builds this rep and he's just you know, he's Johnny everywhere Johnny. And then he comes back and just like mmm, I see you tagging with mis It's like, oh my god, Vince, this this this you know, fixation on, like, let's do what we did before. I don't know, I don't care as long as you're not working for somebody else, I don't care what he does. You know.

of that Sasha Bailey dynamic. Do you think that it's it's week to week, it's it's an example of a master plan or do you think that they're kind of shifting as they go a little bit based on that just their their take on how things are developing between them. So take either first, but cover both.

long this. I mean the fact that like like years ago or however long ago it was when Bailey beat up Sasha and it was like, finally they're doing this thing, and then it just funnels into you know, doctor Shelby sketches. I was just like, man, I did not see this coming. It was just like, no, they're not broken up. They just got to fight. Women fight. So because that's the other element too, It's like Vince does not give Vince is a promoter, give him something to promote. He promotes

a main event. That's it, that's the whole card. And frankly, the truth is he promotes the men's wrestling and the women's wrestling is is a secondary thought if it's even a thought in his head, and the way he will change those storylines on a whim speaks to how little thought he gives it. That said, I would love to see the belt switch for that dynamic in the storytelling. Who knows where we'd get a payoff. But then you

could do the same thing with Nicki and Alexta. And I love Nikki and I've loved Nicki since, you know, I first saw her on NXC. I was like, this is different, interesting, and it works. And then even transitioning away from just being like a you know, an NX teacher was just like a wet grumlin, like that was, you know, and then actually giving her her you know, some color in her face and the coffee cup and

like she can actually have a conversation with people. I love it so But again, if we now have two different tag teams doing this, you know, one's a singles champ and the other one isn't growing the animosity one is gonna win out or don't put it past Vince to do the exact same angle with two different matches and think nobody's gonna notice. So it's interesting, it'll be

interesting to see how it plays out. But that when it comes to the women's wrestling, the the unpredictability factor of Vince goes through the roof because it's he gives so little thought that the contradictions abound always always, you know.

But I wonder if this isn't an opportunity over the next year for Sasha to become the alpha of the entire WWE women's landscape. I I'm seeing her grow and she's still pretty young. I'm seeing her kind of grow into this.

she's kind of the you know, the chosen one. Uh, She's she actually, no, I think about it. She feels like the at least in the company's view, she's the Randy Orton equivalent of just you know, the old reliable, will always get it and always be given the golden ticket. I can't speak to whether she has the same attitude as like a but that being said, she definitely prefers

to be a heel the same way Randy does. And then even when both of those wrestlers have booked his babyfaces, they'll go out there and just cut heel promos and then I'm left confused at home on my couch. And then but they're so you know, they walk on water with the people up top, that there's no resolution to it. So that is interesting too. But with Sasha, I think

the sky's the limit because she's got everything. She's got, the look, she's got, the she's got the the the passion, she's got the mic skills, she's got the ring skills, and then it's just give her some opponents, you know, and they can do.

It's just like it's I can watch those two rest of all day. It's like Punkin' Brian or you know, Kurt Angle and Ben Wah. Not watch any Ben wa matches anymore. I just can't. But you know what I mean, it's that flare Steamboat thing.

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in this empty arena era? Because you know, she and Sasha were sort of, you know, kick things off in that eerie, creepy, disconcerting SmackDown without a crowd, and I think she's grown a lot, and I think as a heel, I'm more interested in her now than I was, you know, even before the pandemic. How about you like what's her trajectory now is what hasn't been And where do you see her going in the next year or two even as a as a valuable player in the women's vision.

something to refresh it. I was never a fan of the American Badass, but it was like, fine, he needed something. And then when he finally went back to you know, the dead Man or the Gunslinger or the hybrid type thing of it. You know, I always preferred Undertaker when he was the Undertaker the dead Man, and not not the times where it felt like he was a UFC

guy whose nickname was Undertaker. You know, with Bailey, I feel like this works a lot better than the American Badass, if there is a way, And I would never put it this way, if I was at WWE. I wouldn't pitch this because I would be terrified of them screwing it up. But there is with the new haircut and the new attitude, and very quickly with the haircut, she was you know, Aunt Pam or whatever. She just looks like you know, she aged herself like twenty years and

the fact that she's a heel. There is something they could do if they could figure out a way to like make her like like on Twitter where just this year where it turned into you know, the the the angry white woman just became called Karen. If we could turn that into Dailey's characters, or she's constantly where she's constantly trying to get the baby faces in trouble with like she's always calling, for lack of a better term, she's she's always calling the cops on the baby faces.

She's always trying to get everyone else in trouble. She's like halfway there. They just need that, you know, she needs to be a tattletale.

than a heel when they have something to complain about. Yes, I always felt that that was the case with Miz and I feel like that's the place that like the Bailey character can go because she you know, people already have that feeling when they look at her of like this woman has never bitten into a piece of food and not complained, you know that type of thing. Maybe you have those vignettes where like they just go out to lunch or something. I mean, yeah, if well, you

know whatever, you can't go out to lunch anymore. But they are in Florida, so.

come on, like, that's that's my dream match. Give them forty five minutes, you know, just just you know, lead. Hopefully we don't get inundated with Priest show matches and then a like a like alls in the card is like three times as long with unadvertised matches. If we could leave it with this card and give those matches some time, particularly the singles title shots, it could be an all time classic. But you know, I'm a dreamer.

In fact, it reminded me of watching old Japanese footage where the people would just be quiet the whole time. Aew right away, I felt like I loved the heels on one side, baby faces on the other side. I love that it almost got to the point where I was like, God, I'm going to miss this one. Like they go back to having fans, Like, I feel like there should still be cinematic matches once in a while,

even when fans come back. I still feel like there should be you know, for lack of a better term, dojo matches where it's just like heels on one side, baby faces on the other. It's just like I love they created an atmosphere that was fresh and compelling. I think when it comes down to it, I prefer Dynamite to NXT because NXT still has that, you know, it still has that WWE feel, which is not always a bad thing, but there is just something about the plastic

look of the lighting. Yeah, the you know, the the the audience. I I hate the way that WWEE lights their shows and going live. It's very frustrating if you have like a red or a blue light like flooding

your vision. I remember we went to something. Was it a house show or was it a taping, but like it might have been a house show and they had like the dumb lighting on and then for the main event, they switched off the lighting and they did classic lighting where the crowd was dark and it was just spotlight on the ring. And dude, let me tell you, this

is at the Staples Center. As soon as those lights shut off and they did it the way that you're supposed to light a wrestling show, there was an audible sigh of relief from the entire arena. Wow. Like it's one of those It's like when there's an annoying sound outside and you don't realize what a relief it is that it's gone until it's gone, Like you could see again, you know. So at any rate, there is the that aspect,

the phony crowd aspect on NXC. I'm not digging in, but there's also this that there's that thing of as great as Adam Cole and Keith Lee was, there still is that thing of they have to do with the WWE way. And I'm constantly worried, like who's going to be scooped up, Who's going to be brought up to the main roster to be buried next? You know, like like somebody on on We Watch Wrestling, we did we do a Q and A on our Patreon, Somebody's like, what do you think is going to happen to the

Undisputed era? And I'm like, maybe maybe one of them will get a push on the main roster for a little while, But I like, I honestly the best case scenario with those guys, and those those are like my favorite guys. I think everybody feels that way. But it's like they're just like I don't need them to be some badass action on two of five lives, and that

feels like the best a scenario for them. So there is that there is that feeling of impending doom when I watch NXT that I don't have for ADW because that's the last stops.

this guy if he's just gonna get buried? You know, it's one of those things I just don't want to get my heart broken constantly. There is that aspect to it too, plus a w SIS pressure. You know, it's just it's just not an instant man show. Even though he's very limited, he's not involved in NXT, but there's still is it's still a w w E show, So it still has those fingerprints all over it.

up most of the time. That's my concern, But my hope is that it's just My hope is that we are looking at long term storytelling and that this thing with him and Hangman is headed somewhere spectacular and it's one of these things. I have faith that with a w because it is there's a lot of like that New Japan thing where you can look back, like I'm interested with like Evil now, like looking back like where where did this start?

for later. But do this now, you know, I mean, yeah, I can imagine the process being or that I can imagine this weekend, this past weekend playing ou dramatically differently if they had access to just J White or everybody who they don't.

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killing it. But they are. It's just it's interesting again. I feel like it's got to be going somewhere because it's like, how have they not been you know, how are they not the tag champs type of thing? But it's like, I don't know, when they finally get to them in the FDR, I think that'll be super cool. You know. Obviously them Kenny and Hangman had like the craziest tag match. I mean, it's just like it's undeniable. So it's like they I think that I think that

the company is doing a good job. I think I would give them an a minus because I think that it's another piece in this thing where they're not giving everything away right away and we are so used to god, twenty five years of hot shot booking to the point where I've seen it. I've seen the match already. Like I remember when I was at WWE, and it was like they were trying so hard to keep like it was Alberto and somebody. I don't know if it was Alberto and Sina or Alberto and Orton, but there was

or maybe even Alberto and Punk. There was somebody that it was like they were trying so hard to keep those two apart so that they had a marquee match at some point to get to on a big show. That it's just because you look at look at WWE when when they do the Mania, more times than not they are bringing back old talent because the new talent isn't over and they've wrestled everybody, and then the only way to get a fresh, interesting match is to bring

someone out of retirement. So there is this thing of the way that Dynamite is doing it. They are building the new stars, which then builds intrigue to well, god, I finally when we finally get to you know, and we're not even a year in, but it's just like when we finally get to like MJF and Kenny having a few, and it's just like that doesn't even seem like it's in the cards right now, but it's like that'll be a killer thing someday, maybe even in like

two or three years. It's like there's no rush because they're doing such a good job building the rest of it.

Because that's what concerns me about Aw's. I think there's this they're surrounded in a bubble by people who worship them, and it's this tiny minuscule number relative to where Dynamite should be given the talent that they have. And I don't feel like with Kenny and the Bucks in particular, those two that there's been to me a self awareness of having to start from ground zero and rebuild and establish who they are with this whole other, vast, potential,

larger universe. And I feel they both kind of walk out there like they're hot shit and just watch us and it'll become obvious. It's self apparent because look at how much the people who have seen us love us, And I just don't see aw putting in the elbow grease to establish who they are and frame them as stars. And when I do watch some of the glossier content that WNNXT put together, I want to see that done.

It's not about fast forwarding the booking, you know, or hot shotting, but it's about framing and presenting some of their top guys as big stars. And I don't know that Dynamite spent in that game, is even playing that game or believes it's important, and that frustrates me a little.

got to know them through their matches. But I think ultimately what we're talking about is the difference between a promoter and a booker, because they have a booker or at least you know a group of them on aew whereas WWE has a promoter. So, like Vince put it this way, trivile h answers to Vince, no matter how much freedom he may have with NXT, He's got to do a WWE show, and Vince gives give Vince something

to promote, and that's what he does. Typically, his approach would be building around one star, like a Stone Cold or or a Hulk Hogan. That's what he learned from his old man, built around Bruno. More so, now Vince builds around the WWE is the star. He's getting a little but but still there was the John Seen is the top guy, Rome's the top guy, Drew's the top guy.

There's lack. There's less of a like who's the top guy in ae W you know, it's it's there's not you could say, well, it could be this guy, Well it could be that guy. It's like, but there's not. There's not one singular, which has its drawbacks too, because if you build everything around one guy, it's like, well what if that guy fucking leaves? You know that, you

know that's the bottom line. But with I don't know that there's ever been a wrestling promotion that you know, had a group of you know, vern ganias who are running it because it's You've got Cody the Buck, Kenny like that, those are the those are the bookers, and you know I got Tony Kahan too. But it's like it's there is and and they're they And the fact that they're approaching it in a way of we're not out of the gate, going to build everything around us.

I think you're right though that, But they are relying on the rep that they've already built. But I can speak from my own experience that I didn't I tuned. I became a part of their fandom after other people and granted when I came in in like a you know, two thousand and twelve, twenty thirteen, it was like that's when particularly those guys were building steam, and that's around the time that you know, maybe a year or two after that is when you know, Cody left and went

on his you know, journey into the desert. But it was like, so I've been there from the beginning and a little bit before the beginning. But there is also just I don't know, they're just doing such a good job building younger guys and newer guys or like like even just like I don't know, it's just there is something that I have more faith.

should be that. They should be you know, men of the people, but there I would think you'd be frustrated watching the Bucks in what you know that they can be sort of shoulder struck their way through these these early you know, months of AW just showing up and throwing super kicks and not really having any kind of I mean, if if the Bucks were hired and we're and we're working for a promoter who you didn't think believed in them, this is what they would have done

with them, and we're all sitting or going it's genius or well, not all, but you know what I mean, Like people are sitting here going, oh, it's it's part of a long term plan, and it's because they don't want to show that they have a big ego and oh

just wait. It's but to me, I'm like, I'm waiting for AW to do something that takes some production effort and some forethought that takes advantage of what the Bucks can be and what Kenny can be, and I I'm not I'm seeing a push that to me reflects a booker who doesn't believe in them, which of course is crazy because they're the bookers.

So it's it's I think it only lends itself to the idea that you know, there's a there's a method to this, and I look, I'm like it has to be that they are interested in building up, you know, because look at it this way, going into a e W when we didn't know what that was, when when it was just a T shirt company, you know, it was like, well, who the hell are their opponents going to be? Are they just going to wrestle each other?

So now they're spending this time building those opponents, and if they come in out of the gate, just well we're beating everybody. And and you can make the argument about like well what you know, people come bringing in people just to lose to like Moss or or Cody

or whatever. It's just like, I don't know, it's there is a certain to a certain extent, it's like, well you have to stay I don't know if that's the balance, that's that's the tightrope walk of booking wrestling, because it's like, at the end of the day, somebody's gotta lose and somebody's got to win, and you have to you know. That's that's that's the art of it of like what's gonna work, what's gonna help, what's gonna hurt, you know,

and then how do we move on from here? But I do love it, but I think for me, I think there is also the aspect of I've been watching WWE for so long and only WWE for so long that seeing somebody on TV doing a different way of booking pro wrestling is taking some getting used to because I can only see it through that WWE lens and it's like, well, if this was Vince doing it, it would mean this, whereas now there's new meeting.

The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties pass cast every Friday or the PW Torch Daily cast feed.

riding coasting on that and instead of turbocharging it. And that's so I'm not saying like refine it and plastic eyes it and sports entertain it, but take what you have and brand it and not branded in the extreme rules horror show way or the pipe bomb throwing superstar, but have something that you your fans can look at and and identify as, Yeah, this is why I'm wearing

an a w T shirt when I go out. And I think there's a what we do speaks for itself is a pervasive attitude right now with too much of that company, a complacency of we have arrived and now we will unveil who we are and they will come. And I don't see this sense of other than you know, announcers telling us how great the Bucks and FTR are. You know, I just I don't know. I just I

see more potential in what they're doing. And I see NXT, you know, right there neck and neck with them, and with all the you know, advantages and disadvantages NXT has for the things that we already talked about, I just feel like a W has the ability to pull ahead, and they aren't doing the things that they could. And part of that is maybe maybe in a year it all plays out and we're like, okay, all those people are saying, no, it's part of a long term master plan.

Maybe it'll all work out, you know. And I've been hearing that since week one and week two, when people were like, wait a second, Kenny Omegas part of the company, John Boxley's part of this company. Why are we not

learning about them? You know? After three weeks it was like, there's a lot of great things about this show, but there's some warning signs too, And I don't know that we're pat I don't know that they've there's been some long term but obviously with Hangman Page, some of that stuff got derailed because of the pandemic and not drop not flying everyone into Florida and stuff. So I give them slack on that on that front. But I just want to see him turn it up, you know. I

want to see more Evo Grise. I want to see about his azz. I want to see I want them to take some of the time producing self indulgent goofball YouTube videos that just look like amateur ur or for guys who are out of work and trying to have fun. Take that time and energy and make dynam I don't we're a polished product.

and we watched wrestling. It's like, with Cody, you've got somebody who like it. I'm like, because we were talking about like the open invitation and you know, he's booking himself to be over and maybe like taking himself out of the main event the heavy White title thing. Was that virtuous or was it virtue signaling or who knows what? And now he's you know, just killing everybody. I'm like, well, you know, he learned how to book wrestling from Dusty Rhodes and so this is a very dusty way to

book himself. But it's but it's still it's so But that all said, I still love it and I'm still such a huge fan of Cody because the promo work is phenomenal, the in ring work is phenomenal, and there

it's again I feel like it's going somewhere. I don't know what yet, but it's it's very interesting and still just even just the in and of itself, like the press conference with the you know, the picture at the end with him and Swagger, him and Hagar where it's just like it's just like literally that night on NXC they were doing a contract siding and it's just like that is the most boring played out. Why are we

like nobody does that? Like they don't they don't sign the contract for the Super Bowl on the field and then all and the game breaks out every single time. It's like, but I love the way that the press conference was presented. I'm like, this actually feels real. This feels like and because that's one of my favorite things with New Japan is that their promos. Once in a while, you get somebody after a match grab the mic and okada like Evil the other night, that type of thing,

cut a promo, but it's usually after their match. They come in and it's a press conference. They've got a backdrop or even better, stitting at a table full of microphones. I love that. That feels legit to me, you know. So there are those things where it's like, look, I don't know where some of the planning storytelling is going. It feels like eventually we're going to get that huge hangman turn. Who knows what that means for who he's

gonna align himself with. Eventually? Is Arn't gonna turn on Cody? You know? Is he gonna pair back up with Tully? Like I don't know. There's so many. I just I'm excited because it feels like they're placing pieces on the game board and then suddenly something's gonna hit and there's going to be some to do. I don't know what it is, but I'm excited to be a part of it,

and I can't wait for it to happen. But the small thing like the having you know, like the press conference instead of a contract signing, I love that having people come out and cut an entering promo and they don't get attacked, they don't get interrupted. It's just a promo with a beginning, a middle, and an end and then we move on to the next segment.

your too better. Sometimes AW a not youre too better. Sometimes one frustrates me a little more than the other. I think a w is a little more erratic and NXT a little more, a little more polished and knows what it is. Uh, And that can be good or bad, you know, depending on uh you know, the week and the and the matches and the show in the particular week show. But AW still has a lot of room to change them.

questions or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at petwtorch dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at PW torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even follow us on Twitter at pw torch and follow me at the Wade Keller. That's at PW torch and at the Wade Keller.

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