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Also the early two thousand and two features are two thousand and one Year in Review features, including ranking Pro Wrestling's most influential powerbrokers and our Torch year end awards, the year in Quotes, and the top fifth stories ranked in order from the year two thousand and one. So go VIP and dive into our back issues. We have most of our back issues available as soon as you sign up, with new back issues week by week from the year two thousand and two, one at a time
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Now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Waide Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic, where Wade Keller Interview is one of pro Wrestling's newsmakers.
Five years ago this week, I interviewed John Arezi, a pioneer in pro wrestling radio, a predecessor to this podcast era, and we talked about his new tellallbook, his new website with Wrestling History Project, his return to pro wrestling with new podcasts, and reflections on his history podcasting. We also talked about current events at that time. Five years ago, including the pandemic era of pro wrestling with cinematic wrestling in the context of wrestling history and how wrestling was
presented in different ways over time. Also the Undertaker documentary series, whether Major League Baseball could learn from pro wrestling in terms of operating safely or the two situations just too different and more. John has seen it all, including the inside of WWF rings and ringside photography. He has great
stories to tell. I definitely recommend his memoir. Then, in the second half of the show, we present a September nineteenth, nineteen ninety two episode of John Arezzi's radio show where I was a guest along with Dave Meltzer of The Wrestling Observer, and we talked about Controver, including Bill Watts butting heads with top stars in WCW during his relatively short stint as vice president. The first segment with John Aresi dropped originally on July seventh, twenty twenty, and it
is today's weight. Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast five years Ago Interview Classic four, Wednesday, July ninth, twenty twenty five. All right, we're catching up with an old friend here on the Wayekeller Pro Wrestling podcast. I'm John Arazie of the Pro Wrestling Spotlight radio show. Guests on on my show many times over the years. I've been a guest on his show many times over the years. We're coming out of
the Fourth of July holiday. It was about a year ago, John, that you and I met up for the first time in decades at in Waterloo, Iowa. It's already been almost a year.
How you doing, Wow, Yeah, it has been almost a year. That was a great time in Waterloo at the Hall of Fame.
Yeah, I'm doing really good.
Waight.
I'm kind of back in the wrestling business, which I never really ever thought that would be, and now here I am in full circle again. I recently divested myself with the music business, in which I was in Nashville for twenty years, and I decided to slowly, you know, put my tone in the water. But now a lot of things are happening, so this is almost a full time gig for me back in wrestling.
Well, that's so fascinating. You have had about as many roles as anybody could have in the wrestling business, and you have kept up with the technology. You've been in the business, You've been on the outside covering it. You've done fanzines, radio podcasting. I know I'm leaving stuff out. You've taken bumps of the ring and wrestled, obviously refereed, ring announced run fan convention, voted yeah, and then promoted here and over. It's just what have you not done?
I think I've done just about everything in the wrestling business. I've never really been prominent with a national company, you know, so I never worked for the WWF or WWE or WCW or any of the major organizations. But I always think what I did was kind of a little bit cutting edge, a little bit before my time back in almost anything I did. And now I'm kind of segued into this historian role and i'm podcasting again looking back at shows from thirty years ago, which you certainly have.
You put my name back there when you started to put up the old Pro Wrestling Spotlight shows on your VIP site, so that's what really got my name out there again. But most recently, I mean, I'm kind of doing Pro Wrestling Spotlight again on Facebook Live every Saturday.
It's a live show every Saturday, and we're getting a lot of people watching it, and I'm covering topical stuff, like I brought on b Brian and Blair from the CAAC a few weeks ago to kind of grill him a little bit on why the reunion wasn't canceled yet, So that was kind of topical, but I'm also yeah, I mean, there was a good interview and he said he was now meeting with the hotel on July fifteenth, and it's ninety nine point nine percent that this thing
will be moved to next year, which it will be. I had to just kind of tell him what the numbers were with COVID, and there was a lot of outcry about he just didn't want to budge on it. So you know, I have a news capsule through my association now with slam Wrestling dot Net with Greg Oliver. So yeah, so I'm covering topical stuff, but I'm also bringing on my old friends like Nick Foley and had the Power Twins on, and this past Saturday had Tom Burke on, who's another wrestling historian who.
I knew from the seventies.
And I got a new website that's going to be launched, you know, putting up all my archives that people have never seen before. So I'm really back in it and it's kind of nuts. But I'm back in it, you know, And I have the book deal, the book. I got a book coming out next year with E c W Press.
There's no escaping John. You think you're out and it pulls you back in. But when you have back in, when you when you have as much invested and the networking and the knowledge and the content, it's like and then there's an audience out there. I mean, it just it's natural to not have it. I mean literally, the cassette tees you gave me, we're sitting in an at a collecting dust and to put them out there for
VP members. And I should note we're going to be putting one of those up after my conversation with John on today's show, so people can hear this really cool retro radio show from the early nineties that when I was a guest with John, and that'll be coming up later on so you can get a sense of what John has a massive collection of on his side of things now. But I think there is a fascination with with the evolution of wrestling media, the evolution of wrestling.
We've gone full circle back to studio wrestling. John, Yes, but in two ways. You know, I wa power up, you know, deliberately, and then you know, because of coronavirus, you know, the everybody else having to go to it, not by choice, but yeah, I mean you're you know, you're talking about the the the the archived or the vintage footage that you have, the photographs. I mean, I just know from talking to you, like it's just sitting here and I don't want to be the only one who can see that stuff.
Yeah, I mean it was time.
And you know, ironically, when I got back in a little bit, when I started a Twitter account and then people remembered who I was, and then new fans who had heard me for the first time because of the towrds VIP site, and then when I started the podcast and listeners from Pro Wrestling Spotlight from thirty years ago, they were still out there. Yeah, and I you know, I started bringing them on, you know, to also talk to them about you know, there were kids who are
now adults and they were still fans. So it has been really pleasing for me. And the one thing I really am enjoying more than anything else is that because I haven't dived too much into the politics of today's business. I'm looking at it in a different perspective and it's and it's in a way, I'm kind of just doing what I want to do and what I enjoyed doing, and that's having conversations with people. Similar to what you do. You have conversations with people, but you cover the hard news.
For me, I'm just you know, I'm reliving the past from thirty years ago. I review a show from thirty years ago on the podcast Pro Wrestling Spotlight Then and Now and on the Facebook Live Show Now. It's just kind of a platform for me to be in front of people on camera and bring on other guests with the stream yard format, and it's really it's really kind of relaxing for me to just kind of to talk
about wrestling. And because the last several years in Nashville, I had been getting so disenchanted with the artists and how young the artists were and they were changing their
philosophy and it wasn't like the old days. And I'm like, well, you know, do I go back to wrestling or not, because I'm not too far from retirement, and I decided that well, yeah, now it's time to kind of unearth all of this stuff that I've had in boxes, and I really it really kind of started with me selling my house a few years ago in Franklin, Tennessee and seeing all these wrestling boxes, not just not the ones I gave you, but the eight milimeter films I shot
as a kid at Madison Square Garden in nineteen seventy three and seventy four, ten thousand plus photographs negatives from when I was a ringside photographer at Madison Square Garden. And then all of the shows I promoted on videotape that people have never seen, and all the interviews I conducted with performers over the decades that no one has
ever heard before, they've never heard before. So I had a wealth of archives, and I did have conversations with the WWE initially, and they were so slow to do anything or not do anything. I'd met with Ben Brown several times there in their archives department. There was just no deal on the table. It was just kind of what's talk, Oh, this looks good, shoot this little pilot for me. And then I was like, you know, I'm not waiting anymore. I'm going to I see there's a
market for this stuff. I'm just going to start releasing it myself, and that's how it happened.
All right, let's pause and set the table. This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's an interview Tuesday edition for July seventh, twenty twenty. I'm with Keller and my guest is John Aresi, who has played so many different roles in pro wrestling. He's got a book coming out where he's going to write about his whole journey through pro wrestling, the music industry, which he scott out of as a country music agent, talent agent, and then also Major League Baseball. He had done pr for the
New York Mets. He's a passionate baseball fan. In fact, we're going to talk about what baseball can learn from pro wrestling when it comes to trying to succeed in keeping everybody healthy enough to keep running shows or running games, putting on games, and how those differences might be a huge factor in whether baseball is actually successfully able to get through their season. So so much coming up in
my conversation today with John. But then after that, we're going to play a radio show that John hosted back in September nineteen ninety two. September nineteenth to be specific, it includes a guest appearance by me twenty eight years ago talking about the hot topics in pro wrestling, including the lack of medical coverage for WW wrestlers, Rick Rud's contract situation in WW, the latest controversies with Bill Watts
running WW as Executive VP, and more. And then Dave Meltzer joins a discussion talk about more with Bill Watts, his blow ups with WW talent, Brian Pillman, and Paul E Dangerously Paul Hayman. So that's coming up a full hour of a retro radio show from twenty eight years ago as a bonus added on to the end of my conversation today with John. Now, let's get back to
the conversation with John. We're gonna talk cinematic wrestling, Undertaker's documentary series, as I said, Baseball and the pandemic challenges that they face just like pro wrestling has, and more. So here we go. We're about to go to a commercial break. Why listened to commercial breaks when you can go VIP and experience our shows with the ads and
plugs removed. PW torch dot com slash go vip. That's pw torch dot com slash go vip for full details, or go to Patreon Patreon dot com slash pw torch vip ratestart as low as four dollars in ninety nine cents to remove the ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts at nine dollars in ninety nine cents to treat yourself to a streamlined, AD and plug free
listening experience with a VIP or Patreon membership. So let's get up plugging right now, because I don't want to get too deep into this with how people knowing how they can explore more, to dive into what you're doing and explore more what you're talking about here. So how can people participate and support what you're doing?
Well, there are several ways, actually, I mean on all the socials ats Twitter at John Rizzi, Instagram at JOHNA Rizzi Facebook, there are two groups and they're both Facebook dot com slash Johnarezzie's Matt Memories. There's a private group and a public group and that's where the weekly live show takes place at six pm Eastern every Saturday. You go to Facebook dot com slash Johnarezzie's Matt Memories and there'll be a live show. You'll see me live, who
would whoever? The guests may be that week. Also, the website right now, you could sig up for it. It's Mattmemories dot com, and you put in your information and you get some bonus content right off the bat.
You get an old.
Little documentary I did about the first time I met Freddie Blassie. You get some photographs, you get a little audio, and then the full site will be launched, I would say right now we're looking at around the first of August. So those are kind of the ways that you could keep up with me with all the different things that I'm doing in the wrestling business now.
So when someone wants to support what you're doing and get full access to it, the new site is the best way. That's gonna ye behind a paywall.
Yeah, it'll be behind a paywall. It's probably gonna be around seven bucks a month. There'll be discounts for a longer periods of time. But I have a Patreon too, I mean, that's what supports the podcast. I mean, because we don't monetize it any other way, but Patreon, and and what the Patreon is is basically patri dot com slash aresiaras easy I and that gives you. We have fifty six shows up there now, the ones that you never really had an opportunity to put on your site.
These are the early days. These are the first couple of years. I remember.
I couldn't find them for so long a time, and it wasn't until I sold my house when I found them. So, I mean, so all of that stuff is up there now, and we also put up bonus content. We put up you know, I even have some shows from college that are going up when I was in nineteen seventy five.
I started Pro.
Wrestling Spotlight when I was in college, and I have those tapes. And there's also special interviews with some guys like the Power Twins and some other special things that are on the Patreon. But right now there's a full year, a full year of shows from nineteen April ninth, nineteen eighty nine, the very first show prog Wrestling Spotlight on commercial radio. And I think we just taped yesterday the show from April twenty nine, nineteen ninety so it's still
a WNYG. We haven't even gone on to the bigger stations yet, and I'm just about to start talking about my very first wrestling convention in nineteen ninety on the podcast. So it's pwspod dot com that's free to listen every week, but Patreon is Patreon dot com. Slasher RESI to get full unedited versions of the shows with commercials that people strangely.
Like, oh totally. Like it got to the point when I was putting those up, I was like, Okay, I don't think people need to hear the commercial, the commercial, the multiple commercials every show every week, but I sponsors, Yeah, but I left some in, you know, And it is like the jingles, the commercials, the live reies, it's part of the flavor. It's part of bringing you, immersing you in that moment and in that time. And I mean some people are like, you know, would prefer to just
get right to the wrestling. But I know there's people who really enjoy the commercials. I mean, I have, like I used to tape on vhs, like movies when they are on TV. I'm like, I have, like, you know, twenty five of my favorite movies on VHS. Can watch him any time. It was like, you know, a completely different world, like to be excited about that, But I don't care about the movies anymore because they were edited
for TV. The picture quality is awful. I already own a DVD version and a Blu Ray version, and we'll end up giving those way of recycling them because now they're all on Netflix or whatever. But I gotta save it because of the commercials. You know, those are the that's what brings you back, is the jingles and the thing that's what really sparks memories and brings you back to that era. Yeah.
I ran into a fan the other day.
I mean, he he wrote me an email and he had a little gift for me, and I met him here on Long Island. He was from Long Island and he was talking about how much he loves the commercials and I'm like, wow, I mean, and that's not the first person who said that. And your analogy is great because now you're watching when you put an old tape in for an old movie, Yeah, what was going on, you know, fifteen.
Twenty years ago on those commercials. It's a different world.
And even like the local news anchors that you grew up with and like, oh god, there's that news update, Oh there's a building that's not there anymore, and yeah, it's just like the old It's just yeah, it's it's a fun nostalgia trip. And obviously you can get a lot of this on YouTube now too if people put content up and don't edit out the commercials, so well cool. So yeah, I hope if if what people are hearing here intrigues them, just you know, support It's it's great
supporting small businesses during this time. And there's not many there. I was just gonna say, not many. There's nobody else out there who has the content that John does that he can put up, so dive on in and check it out. He's been a great friend of the Torch over the years, and you know, letting us put up those prosting spotlight shows on our VIP site. They're all still there. But you don't get that, uh, you don't
get all of them. And you also don't get John revisiting them, and and that's, uh, that's hats to I know you were listening back to when I would post him on the VIP site on a weekly basis, but like listening back and then sort of like commenting on them. It's what's what's the best and worst part about that experience?
The worst part of it was.
The fact that I was just not comfortable sometimes with who I was back then. So I sometimes when I listened to the old episodes, I'm like, wow, I was I should have listened to that guest more, I should ask that follow up question instead of always looking at the clock and how I'm moving the show along. And
even with some of the listeners. There's a little kid that called in years ago, George from linden Hurst was his name, and I, you know, I hung up on him a couple of times in advertently because he was like an eight year old. I was having a serious discussion and he was like, John Rezay, I want to ask you a question. Do you think Ultimate Warrior is gonna win at WrestleMania? And it has had nothing to
do with the topic. And now I've become this heel because all the fans who have listened to this kid now they feel sorry for him. And there's a you know, a George from linden Hurst movement, And you know, I'm constantly getting berated on social media because because I was giving away prizes one week and I didn't give him a Matt Watch.
Year book or something.
And no, I'm still getting I'm getting hammered each and every week. The best the best things about it is reliving that time period, you know, from eighty nine and reliving that Ricky Steamboat interview I did when he left the NWA, that contract dispute, and then Jim Hurd coming on to answer him the following week. And that's the stuff I'm enjoying, and I'm looking forward to now, you know,
getting into the bigger station doing the convention. Then the scandals hit and the show kind of evolved into this can't be you know, hosted by ex wrestler John Anthony, Like, why the hell did I even do that? That's embarrassing for me. I had two matches and I shouldn't have even been in the ring. And so I started the show as former pro wrestler John Anthony and and that lasted a year and a half. Then all of a sudden, I changed my name to John O. Rizzie, Like, you know,
people knew what it was me anyway. So those are embarrassing moments, but I mean it's just kind of cool. I was all the years ago, and I'm comfortable with it all, you know, And I think that's why I got a book deal I mean it's because I've been I've had a schizophrenic life. I mean, I changed my name when I left wrestling in ninety six and people
thought I was in witness protection or died. I changed my name to John Alexander, went into country music for twenty three years, and no one in Nashville knew me as John Arezi. So you know, the book is about a guy with two identities, two separate names, two different industries that were kind of high profile. And that's why I think ECW Press gave me his deal. So it's going to be a fascinating read when it comes out next year too. So anyway, I'm nuts Wade.
So the book. How far into it are you?
It's done?
Oh cool? Okay?
Oh yeah, Matt.
The manuscript was handed in a couple of months ago. They're working on the cover design now, and it's going to be called Matt Memories. I guess that'll get the final approval. I wanted to call it. I should have stayed in baseball. That's what my title was because I worked for the New York Mets for a brief period in the early eighties, and and that's where my passion has always been. In baseball and then I get into
wrestling and country music. But at the end of the day, it's like, you know what, I should have stayed in baseball, but they didn't think that was marketable enough to the audience that I was trying to hit.
That sounds like a subtitle Matt Memories I should have stayed in baseball.
It's Matt Memories my wild ride in pro wrestling, country music and with the Mets.
Cool I like that.
So, what's an overview? What you had a lot to write about?
Was it?
Is it sort of? Is it just kind of an all encompassing autobiography or do you pick out themes?
What's the It's a memoir about my entire life, and it's co written by Greg Oliver, who's written fourteen books, and Michael Holmes me CW Press was intrigued with the idea of my life and said, if you can get a good co writer you've never written before, I suggest Greg Oliver or Scott Teal. I talked to them both. Scott didn't really have time and Greg. Greg took the project on because there was more than wrestling. If it
was just a wrestling he wouldn't have done it. Uh, so it really it covers my life weight as you know, as you know, growing up in Brooklyn, New York, in an Italian family with a with a dad who was on the edges of organized crime, growing up on Long Island, having a passion for the Mets, you know, a rough family upbringing a lot of stuff in my life that
is revealed in the book. And then you know, my fascination with wrestling as an early age and starting the Freddie Blessi fan club, and then you know, going to college and just kind of evolving with everything I ever did in my life. And it's almost like this weight, I mean, it's almost like what I look at it now and I'm comfortable with this is that I never I never hit the Grand Slam myself, I mean, and I never you know, worked for.
The WWE or WCW.
I was never the head of Sony Records, but I helped a lot of people along the way. I mean, I discovered a singer named Patty Lovelace in nineteen eighty one who became a superstar and country music. I didn't get her the record deal, but I was I kind of equated as like a minor league manager in a way. And I did the same for Sarah Darling in country music, and I discovered a singer named Kelsey Ballerini who's one
of the top artists today. But I didn't take them across the finish line myself, but I was there instrumental. I mentored, I guided, I believed in them, And so there's a role there. And even in wrestling, you know, I mean helping guys like McK foley and bringing on my show and doing you know, and helping whoever I can open the door for. And I hear I hear things today from on Waltman and Conan and and all these guys from years ago that I didn't realize I
was that impactful in their lives. You know, Am I sitting here with an Emmy award? Am I sitting here in a mansion? Am I sitting here?
No?
I'm not. I don't have any of that. But I think that, how whyever, I'm here on this earth, and whatever my role was here, it was maybe to be that guy in the minor leagues to kind of like, all right, here is a diamond in the rough.
Let me see if I could help them.
And there are a lot of stories like that in the book, So it's a little inspirational and at this point in my life, you know, sixty three years old, I'm kind of satisfied with all of that. I'm really comfortable on my own skin really for the first time almost ever.
Wow, I'm looking forward to that. It's you talk about your it's not ghostwriter, but your your co author. What's what the term for? Greg Oliver?
He is a co writer on the book.
Co writer. Yeah. He and I were pen pals in in uh in high school, like we would like, you know, type up our handwrite letters and just talk about stuff wrestling in life. You know, we're the same age, We're in the same grade and met each other in the summer in between high school and college, although I think he had to go to grade thirteen because it was Canada, but it was a summer before I went to college
and we got to finally meet there. And we've we've seen each other at the Waterloo Hall of Fame convention for two or three of the years that that I've been going, he's been there. So that's super cool. Just such a small world that.
Yeah, it is. He's he's such a great guy.
He's become such a good friend and in a lot of ways when we were doing the project, and we started on it really in the late summer early fall of last year, and we'd talk on the phone several times a week and I'd tell him my story and then he'd write it up. But he became like a psychologist to me in a lot of ways. This is a lot of stuff I never thought i'd ever tell anybody, and and it's all out there. It's it's like a purging of everything and all the mistakes that I made.
And I made a lot of mistakes, not just in the wrestling but in other aspects of my life. But you'll learn you're supposed to learn from your mistakes and not repeat them. So but he was such a great partner on the on the book, and the publisher and Michael Holmes, they really love it.
They love the book. So I'm excited about.
It and I really think that it's going to be a defining moment of my life.
Are you thinking there's going to be some people mad at you?
You know, I don't think there will be there. There there's a couple of there's a couple of people in the book. There's probably if there's a.
Heel in the book.
There's a heel in the book and that and that's based on my business in in country music at the label that I worked for as their vice president an end. So if there's anyone that comes across a heel, it's that individual, Patty Loveless. There's some stuff that I reveal, but you know, she talked about some of her early days as well. Uh So it's all true, I think. Uh, I think I'm the person that kind of just purged everything.
I mean, and there's also you know, there's a lot of stuff about you know, the person that brought into the wrestling business. There is a chapter uh that that's called It's All My Fault and that's a chapter about Russo. Uh So, so it's all in there and uh and I think people are gonna say, you know, this guy is a pretty good guy and he just kind of yeah, he admits his mistakes and and I don't really cover anything up. I mean, it's just it's all out there.
So it's it's gonna be interesting. I don't know where. I don't know how it's going to be received. I think it'll be uh. I think it'll be a compelling read for anybody who picks it up.
Uh cool. I look forward to and I'm glad Greg is writing it too with you, and I'm glad you guys are hitting it off.
Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, will come join me Alan forel Over in the Progress Paradise at Pterboo Torch VIP as we mask on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and shows from around the world, be it
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Let's I want to turn the page. I mentioned that, you know, we've gone full circle on studio wrestling. I want to get your take. Having watched for so long this the the you know, it's been a bit of an evolution since late March in terms of how the show is presented. But I'll never forget Sash and Bailey walking out on that first SmackDown with no audience and the empty chairs in the background. I don't know whose
idea was to lead the chairs out there. I guess it was, you know, short turn around time and a crazy time in the world. But it was just eerie. And they're like playing to a crowd that wasn't there, and you're just we didn't know how, you know, we didn't know help a lot about the virus yet and the pandemic and how it would spread, and how dangerous it was to be doing these shows, and and it
was just it was empty. It was weird. They went to a best of men and I've found myself now for the most part, just adjusting, and I think wrestlers have too to work, you know, and now there are people in you know, behind the plexiglass or in Aw's case, in the crowd in kind of the outdoor door well not kind of a full fledged outdoor Daily's Place venue.
And now you're getting that that crowd reaction. It feels more normal, and it feels like what I watch growing up in the a w A, which is, you know, wrestling in a TV studio or a real small venue with a row or two of people yelling and you can make out their voices and it is kind of a throwback. And you know, we can incorporate baseball into this a little bit because you know, all these you know, Minnesota Twins are testing positive for COVID. They want to
get the season started late. What were your initial thoughts about if they could make this work both safety wise and logistically making it worth watching, and and how do you think they've done given the circumstances, even setting aside your personal enjoyment of it, just kind of objectively just saying God with what they have to work with safety wise, presentation wise, what are your kind of thoughts on the job that they've done well?
I mean when they first started when the when the pandemic hit and things got canceled, I immediately thought that you should have canceled the WrestleMania.
Uh.
And when they continued that, I just I was just like, this is ridiculous. It's WrestleMania. I mean, how could they do this at a performance center? And other you know, vignettes and film segments, but a couple of those came across really good. Uh. But the the idea of seeing in the beginning nobody there and those empty chairs, it was not done right. And then when they started to evolve it somewhat h then it became more enjoyable because now it is like back in the day when there
was studio wrestling. It it is more palatable to watch as a product. And I think some of the performers, some of the athletes like Randy Orton and Edge are doing incredible work not only on the mic but the work in the ring, so it is better to watch and even an AEW as well. I mean, I think they had a little bit of a heads up and they started making it more enjoyable for the viewer faster than the WW. And the WW is catching up obviously because they you know, they don't let any grass grow
under their feet at all. But as far as watching it today, it's better than the beginning of the pandemic. So I can see myself turning it on more and more, and especially when you give the performers the opportunity to kind of like tell a story in a way that they hadn't been able to in front of the large crowds. So it's it's more engaging that way for me. But it's still an evolution, but it's getting much mo better to watch than it certainly was in March and April, that's for sure.
Yeah, there's it's it's put wrestlers in a position to have to perform in a completely different way, and yet not unlike the way a lot of wrestlers have performed over the years. Now, today's wrestlers, no matter how long they've been around, they've done backstage interviews, you know, the afternoon before TV and it's just them in a camera and you know, producer and some other wrestlers after the side. But that used to be what wrest that was. I mean, it was just rare that I saw a wrestler cut
of promo in a ray like I do. I mean, it just wasn't done. It was all you know, me and Gen Oakland and Awa holding the microphone for wrestlers. They'd spent all afternoon doing interviews. They'd hit them for each local market. And so like the idea that wrestling had to adjust, it did. But it adjusted back to wrestlers having to perform in front of smaller crowds and and in the ring and doing interviews without a huge
audience to play to. And it's different and some have adjusted better than others, like Bailey was I didn't think, I don't think doing great with crowds, and she didn't do great initially without crowds, and she seems like someone
who's found a group and is making it work. Drew McIntyre is like an ideal babyface champion right now to have because the way he you know, just last night, you know, looked in at the camera when he got to the ring, and you feel a connection with him because he knows how to connect with an audience at home while also being in a venue full of just you know, trainees reacting to him. It's been I mean, obviously I wish none of this was happening, but it is.
And it's been fascinating. It's a fascinating chapter of the wrestling business we're in seeing wrestlers adjusted. And of course it's better with a full crowd of fans, but the way the matches are different, the way people like Osca and Nicky, who are so loud and create their own energy have gotten prominent positions, probably beyond what they would have had if they were in front of a crowd.
Some wrestlers are benefiting and others aren't based on who can perform their character and deliver uh without that big crowd, and so you know, I mean, yeah, be better with crowds, but it's it's it's doesn't mean it's not interesting to watch the promoters and the wrestlers and everybody adjust.
Yeah, I totally agree with you.
I think the detriment to a point is that to make it really uber successful is to concentrate on those performers that are that are really knowing what they're doing and are connecting, that have that in factor. And there's a lot of there's a lot of performers that are there's so many of them, you know, how how do you give everybody their time in the spotlight. You got to rise to the occasion. And that's what we're seeing with Bailey and Drew. And of course Edge has always
been great, but and Orton has always been great. But these are these This is the time to shine for these folks. And if there is ever a time when there are crowds coming in again and on a large number, their popularities only in the explode in front of the live crowds and the pops that they'll get because of what they're doing now to connect with the viewer.
Now, when we talk about things going full circle, promoters could tell how things were working out based on ticket sales, so they do a studio TV wrestling show pre tape promos wasn't live. They didn't have that instant focus group feedback on a large scale like wrestling promoters have been
used to the last several decades. But they had house shows and they could gauge on ticket sales, and then at house shows, you know the monthly big of brands events, they could decide, you know, in Memphis, how many tickets were sold in the Mid South Coliseum. You could tell if an angle worked.
On TV or not drawing money?
Yeah, who is? And you can't tell now, you know, that everybody that ww network. There's an abb and flow that seasonal. You know, you can't really tell because you know all the crowd response to people order it because they're really interested in the swamp match or the or is it because of what's going on with Nicky Cross? Like you. They can do surveys, they can have people study social media, but there is that disconnect and I'm not sure who's over and who's not at this point.
It's just a big, big crowd reaction, right you got, Yeah, absolutely.
So I know they have the minute by minutes, you know, and I know they you know, in a way, you just want gut instinct. You know, you want a pilot who knows when there's turbulence, you know, to fly the plane higher or lower straight through. And you hope wrestlers and promoters kind of have that gut instinct. They don't need the instrument panel to tell them what to do. And sometimes, you know, following focus groups leads to some or you know, leads to some awful TV series and
awful movies, and and so with wrestling. You know, Vincient Mann right now is kind of going on his gut. You know. Tony Kahan triple each everybody involved in creative, in those decision making, they're kind of evaluating what they see, and it's giving some wrestlers some breathing space to try to get over without having a dead crowd just bury
them instantly, because we've seen that. You know, even though Booker t buff bagwell match, you know that infamous Nitro match, it was like it was an awful match, but the crowd hated it. And if it's like, Okay, I'm done, that's all I needed to see. And Apollo Cruise had that happen to him a few times, Neil, he would go out there and there's no response and you could just tell, okay, you know, Vince's the crowd isn't into him.
Sol Vince won't push him. But now a Paullo Cruise is getting a push and he's getting more TV time and there's more breathing space. I wonder if he's one of those wrestlers who win, there's crowds again in three, six, nine, twelve,
eighteen months whatever. If you know, the timing plays a role in this, but if he watched out in front of a crowd, I bet he has a better chance to have fans react positively to him than if he had been in front of a crowd the whole time, fighting that initial lack of crowd reaction that would have defined him.
Yeah. Absolutely.
I mean it must be challenging for you to cover the business these days with all the you know, with the pandemic and everything that's going on. Or is it exciting for you to kind of see this the way the business is today because of the pandemic, because you do incredible job and and you know, it's got to be interesting for you to say the least.
Yeah, I mean it's different. I mean I'm not like a Baseball beat beat writer who was traveling with the team everywhere.
You know.
My job has been you know, you know, largely desk based, laptop based for a long time. But it's it's a long stretch to go not seeing wrestling in person. Unfortunately, I saw you know, a couple of shows in pretty quick succession w BN NXT before this, but I really would have liked to have gone to an aw show by now, you know, and and and and I got you know, I was at all in but that wasn't officially a w but I mean I got a sense of it, so I feel good about that. But you know,
so that's weird. But in terms of like, I wouldn't say it's it's like exciting, but it is different. And for as long as I've been doing this anything, you know, I'm gonna cover it no matter what. You know, whatever's happening I covered. So it's my job to show up and do it. And I found that people enjoy talking about wrestling adjusting to these circumstances. And you know I
did on the Personal Torture newsletter this past week. I did a backpage editorial and just you know, laid out that you know, they haven't lost many viewers relative to what the pattern, what the year to year pattern was. You know, I think there's a belief out there that they've lost you know, forty or sixty percent of the viewership or something, and they haven't. I mean, viewership was
going down anyway. So if you look at the pattern of the past couple of years for Ron SmackDown, because we don't have NXT on USA data or AWNT and T data, but the raw and SmackDown data suggests it's you know, single digit drop in viewership compared to what you would have predicted if you did the math in February. Now it's down more than five percent from a year ago, but there's always a drop off after Mania, and we've been seeing wrestling viewership on network TV eroad over time.
But in terms of how much further needed drop than someone in February would have predicted if simply plugging in data points from the past couple of years, it's down single digits. So wrestling fans have of stuck around pretty close to what you would expect them to have stuck around, regardless of the pandemic and empty ragn and part of
that's a credit to the promoters for adjusting. You know, Tony Kahan has this great Dailies Place facility and it's outdoors, and it's afforded him any test He started doing testing earlier than WWE did. And as Taz said last week, you know, they run a tight ship. They don't run
a sloppy operation when it comes to safety. There's some issues I've expressed to Tony and publicly that I'm not happy with that they've done, But overall, they've had this great outdoor facility to work with that feels larger than life.
And you know, Stephanie McMahon's making fun of him and Forbes, but having wrestlers at ringside reacting to it has worked out well for atmosphere, and so I think people who love wrestling have found out that most people like wrestling enough even without a crowd to follow the soap opera,
character development and matches. You can support us on Patreon and get these shows with ads and plugs removed, The Way Killer Prossing Podcast, Wade Keller Prosing post shows, and the PW Torch Daily cast throughout the week with ads and plugs removed, plus a few bonus VIP shows throughout the month for just four dollars and ninety nine cents a month. Check it out patreon dot com slash PW Torch vip. That's patreon dot com slash PW Torch vip and you can also upgrade to other tiers and receive
even more benefits through Patreon. I think one of the biggest things that defines this era is the the the cinematic wrestling match, and I'm curious, curious, John, what you think of that we've we've had in terms of cinematic matches WrestleMania. They had to make it feel special so they, you know, had two or three of those. I don't know if had Jordan counts. I guess it does. But music in the background, and now it's just a regular thing.
What's your because remember the mini movies w W did and how outraged we all were when there were you know, little people chasing Davy boy Smith on a beach, in Vader on a ship or whatever. I have fever dreams that get mixed up with what I watched there, So it's not totally new. But talk about the history of cinematic dabbling into cinematic type presentation of wrestling, and how you think if you think that will last beyond this this pandemic period.
Well, I mean, it was very difficult for me to see it when it happened when it started. But the thing is, you know, I was a fan since the sixties, so I saw the evolution of this business go from so many different ways in so many different places. But now it's an evolution and the cinematic cinematic matches AJ styles versus Undertaker. I was like, what the hell is this?
But but once it evolved, it kind of drew you in, even the fiend you know that that was pretty interesting to watch, and so you get kind of like, all right, this is the way it is now. So if you love the business, and if you love wrestling, if you still enjoy it, you're gonna have to change with the times. And was it did it have to happen just because
of the circumstances. Yes, but you know, and a lot of people, because I am a purist in a lot of ways and a historian, I still I see the value in the cinematic matches and I'm not gonna just say they suck. When I first saw it, it was so bizarre to me that I was like, immediately instinctually, you get and what do they do? They're killing the business.
It's over, you know, Da da da da da. But then when you get into it and you kind of get drawn in, it's like, well this kind of is pretty good and they really pulled it off.
Yeah, it's it's it is, you know you. I've seen enough wrestling over the years to see it go through a lot of stages, and there's there's things that are done that I think are not for me, and there's but might be okay for business. And there's things that I've seen done that I think are okay for me, but not good for business. And I you know, like I think there's in the context of a cinematic match. I mean, we've been through a lot with Undertaker, you know,
we went through a lot with Papa Shango. This is not you know, there's been unrealistic characters and skits in wrestling for a long time. I remember it was a very big deal in a buried a live match with Undertaker or or you know where he there was a cam inside the casket and it's like, how did that get in there? How how do we that had to
be filmed later? Somebody emailed the other day and I talked about this on the vip Keller hotline in Hamilton, like they they're supposedly filming a play and I haven't seen it yet, but it's filming a play. But there's close ups at times of a shot of the stage of someone on the stage, and that there's no camera there when they go to the wide shot, so suddenly you're taken out of the moment. You go, oh, wait
a second. They re enacted that and spliced it in, and it's it throws you off because the narrative structure is we're filming a play but soddenly and it's like the dash cam shot when Shane mc man's head went through a windshield. It's like, how do the camera it in there? Why? Why didn't know to put a camera there? It's dumb and so in the context of a wrestling match, I don't want to see that. I didn't like when UH on NXT where UH there was a shot inside
the trunk and it wasn't a cinematic match. So how did Roderick? How was there a camera there we could see his reaction whatever? Like, But if it's if you take it into this other world and you just pick it up and lift it out of the narrative structure that wrestling normally is in and drop it into a different box called cinemas cinematic wrestling, there's a whole different set of rules. I'm willing to accept it, especially given the circumstances we're in. You've got to be creative and
you have to be flexible in these times. But I just want when there's a match in the ring, I want and I want there to be a certain structure they follow. But when you when you're in the cinematic realm, I'm I'm willing to just let go and be entertained by it, and so far it largely happened.
Yeah, I mean, you have made it just that's that's an incredible good point because I I'm right on the same page with you. I mean, when you're taking out, when you're taking that cinematic match and you're putting it like you're picking up this is something different and special. But the other points that you bring up, you know, haved that camera get in the car or in the trunk. Yeah, that's the stuff that I don't agree with either, but you know your analogy of that was spot on.
Yeah.
I could see the cinematic stuff being special and that has its own place in the business today because of the circumstances. So yeah, I mean I remember, you know, things crazy back in the seventies in a way, there was a little TV show from Caracas, Venezuela, and I forgot the name of it, but the head characters with a woman walking with a sheep and someone carrying ice and and clowns, and it was way before w W
anything else. I forgot the name of it, but I was compelled to watch it every week because it was so bizarre and so crazy and different from seeing and O Sam Martino Barho, Professor Tanaka.
You know, there's a bunch of people google youtubeing and googling key terms right now trying to find what you just described.
Yeahs Penezuela.
I forgot what the name of the show was, but it was on for several years, and the Mummy was a character in it, and this guy Elsa Tario Joe was like a vent like a like a missionary, and there's some there is some video.
Of it on YouTube.
Ironically, when like Jerry Lawler, when he would take over booking for Jerry Jared, so it kind of rotate to stay fresh. And when Jerry Lawler would take over, you knew he did because there'd be a gorilla in a cage, like a guy in a gorilla outfit in a cage like you just he'd do weird stuff. Yet he was also you know, a traditionalist who hated what fensic Man
was doing, which always found funny. You know, Lawler would get outlandish with stuff but then be super I mean when I interviewed Jerry Lawler before he worked for the WOF there was I mean, other than maybe Jim Cornett nobody is critical that I interviewed of vinsic Man than Jerry Lawler. You know, he's running a and he's you know, really because Jerry was old school, you know, it's hard for him to break k fabe. Even with me in an interview for the Torch, he would, you know, it's
just a good tell. It was difficult when I would interview Nick Bockwinkle, it was like, oh, he just he didn't want to do it, you know, Greg Gania, he just I don't think he still will, you know, as in a I told the story a few times, but I was in a radio I was doing a radio show with Greg Gania here in Minnesota, and we're in the lobby before we get brought into the studio and I said, like, I think I said babyface, and Greg's like,
sh the reception is still hear you mm hmm. It was like he didn't want like an industry term that I was privy to but also writing a newsletter about that it was advertising to people to subscribe to. He didn't want the receptionist to hear me use an industry term. So wrestling's always had people who think it should be one thing trying to fiercely protect that because they felt it was vital to its success or vital to just the tradition of what it should be. And yet there's
been crazy stuff. David McLean's Pow in Glow Glow first that when that aired on the syndicated blocks in the mid eighties, I mean it was I hate I did not like it. It was not for me. It was way too campy. Yeah, yeah jinks, yes, exactly, way too campy. It didn't the wrestling wasn't good. It wasn't presented as real. And I thought it was making making fun of what pro wrestling was. And it didn't belong on a wrestling block.
It belonged somewhere else where. People who didn't like wrestling but thought they knew what wrestling was wanted to laugh at it. And so you know it, there's no I remember when I interviewed Luthet's you know, he didn't like and Anthonia RockA, Oh he's an acrobat, he's not a wrestler, and he was, you know, didn't want You know, everybody's got what made them a fan or what they think
wrestling should be. Yeah, and there's things that work and things that don't, and by the way, there's things that I don't like that I don't think are good for the business, but I'll critique it and say, if you're gonna do it, even though I don't think you got to, you can do it better than you're doing it. And here's how, you know, Like and I get to that mode too, where it's like it's not about me just saying I don't like it and they should be doing it,
so I'm not going to talk about it. I'm like, Okay, I don't like it, and I don't think you should do it, but if you're gonna, at least do a good version of it. And so sometimes I find myself in that world too.
Yeah, I mean, just look at what we covered Wade, I mean, in the groundbreaking early days of the Torch and what Dave did with the Observer and on the radio side, what I did with Pro Wrestling Spotlight. I mean, we were in an era that this business was so protected and k fabe was still very prominent, and it's
totally different today. Obviously, I mean the current is, you know, certainly torn down, but look at you know, even guys like Bruno San Martino, how he protected the business almost until you know, his last couple of years of life
in a way changing times. I mean, the business constantly evolves, and it's got to be challenging, challenging for you know, journalists like yourself to just kind of see all the changes and not throw your hands up but embrace it in a way, but also give it constructive criticism.
Then hopefully and hopefully people are listening to.
Yeah, I enjoy covering perfect I enjoy watching wrestling, like I mean, there's some things I enjoy more than others. And there's things I wish I had time to enjoy, but they just don't fit into my schedule and it's not part of my work. And there's times I just I'm better at what I do if I have some free time where I'm not thinking about work and I'm not watching wrestling. It's just so so there's there's things that I wish I had time to enjoy about the
professional wrestling industry disconnected from my job. But it's very hard to watch wrestling and actually be mentally disconnected from
my job to kind of recharge. So all but all of that said, because of the way that I approach the coverage, everything that changes about the wrestling industry is really interesting to me, Like I I what never is happening that has some level of popularity that people want, that there's an audience to hear analysis of it and have it covered and and keep up on the news aspect of it. I'm fascinated by it. I've just I've been a fan long enough and I've covered it long enough.
Whatever is around the corner, I'm going to be there to analyze it. I want to know are they why are they doing it? Is it a good version of what they're trying to do or is it a shoddy, half assed version of what they're trying to do with So I'm going to call them out on it. Is it really creative and well done but maybe not good for business, or is it really creative and well done and could lead to a boom in the business and
I enjoy that. So, you know, kind of going full circle back to the to what we're going through now, it's it's a it's a really interesting chapter on my job. I didn't know where we were headed, you know, if you go back to April, I didn't know where we'd be in July, and I don't know where we're going to be in October, although I have a better idea. I think we're going to be right where we are now in October. I think Wesling's going to be similar unless there's you know, big COVID upbreaks, and.
Yeah, I think until there's a vaccine, I can't imagine things getting back to normal really until twenty twenty two. Really, I think that's if it's going to get back to normal, it'll happen the year after next.
I think in the way twenty twenty is going, I mean, I knock on what I shouldn't say it, but we might have a second pandemic before.
Yeah, it's already surging in so many places, and the second wave, so they say, is not here yet. But people aren't listening, and there's so many conflicting viewpoints. And you know, the one thing I can't even imagine is when baseball starts and seeing baseball in front of no people.
Well, I've been leading there because oh I have I want to. I want that's one of my closing topics for me. Okay, but so say that because I want to say that to the last, last last thing.
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP Podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's early history.
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW Torch VIP members.
I want to bring up Undertake. Yes, Undertaker, we talked. You're talking about people protecting the business until the end, you know, Brunoso Martino, you know my situation. I mean, like, because a Torch Talk series, if if people start at the beginning of the Torch Talk series and read through from the late very late eighties all the way you know through today, there's an evolution to how people in the business, wrestlers, announcers, promoters, bookers, managers, how they talk
about wrestling. And some people were just willing to just speak freely, Polly Dagerously, Paul Hayman, Cornet, Eddie Gilbert. You know there are people like I'm just gonna you know, Sean Walman, you know, I'm just gonna talk openly about the business. They're of that generation. And then there were people who just couldn't you know, I mean, it was just they just couldn't do it, you know, Nick Bockwinkle
and others. And then there are people who are so far removed from the business, like Luthz, where they're like, screw it, I don't like what's going on today. I'm not protecting it because this isn't what I was part of. So there's such a but Undertaker is a modern example of somebody who was one of the last holdouts protecting his character. Now. I actually don't keep up so much on social media and how wrestlers portray themselves that I don't know, like what wrestlers out there are have an
on air character that are protecting it. But NICKI Cross for example, or Randy Orton, two very very opposite people, but they've both sort of protect their character. I think, you know what I mean, likes there's the on air character, and I don't think there's a lot of interference that they put out there in social media to make people know that they're to confirm that they're massively different than what we see on tea. And I still think there's
value in that. You know, just like stand up comedians who have a certain stick and a certain audience that they develop, they don't go on social media and go I might have had a liberal slant on that perspective, but my real life use are very different. They don't want to do that, it'll ruin their act. Undertaker was in that school. I thought he and he's talked about it in this documentary Anto to Be Network, and it's been shocking John to hear Undertaker talk out a character
as somebody who held out for so long. What do you think about that? Is that surprising to you that he finally gave in, whether it was for finances or he just wanted to go to the autograph circuit and it sort of unraveled and unrolled from there and to what it is. But talk about Undertaker sort of being the last old school holdout now just speaking freely, it was.
For me it was really very surprising. And what started it was when he did the interview with Steve Austin on the Network and that to me as an eye opener when he was that honest, And then of course following the documentary series, which I think was fabulous and the way he opened up, and that documentary series was incredible.
I mean I watched it all. I've watched every.
Episode twice, and yeah, he protected it till the very end until he was ready because it was obviously the last ride. You know, will he come back for another WrestleMania. I doubt it. You know, all these guys, you know, they think they could retire, but they always try to do one more. But I think in his case, he told the story the way he wanted to tell it, and he opened up when he felt it was the right time to do it, and I was I really have to give it, you know, thumbs up all the way.
It was probably the best thing I'd seen in years.
To me, if you turned down the volume and blacked out Undertaker's face, I'd still be glued to the screen because of the backstage footage, like and you know we talk about old school people, Ricky Steamboat was backstage in one of them, and in the shot with Undertaker, and Steamboat had that little look over his shoulder like why the f is this camera pointed at me?
And because that was never that was never something that the Undertaker would allow.
And Steamboat would have liked it. You know Steam, you helo guy, and he's a little prickly Steep. It's a little prickly. Yeah, he's got his nice guy image on on air, but he's not. It's a little different in real life. And he's someone who would shoot a look to somebody who's invading his space and his privacy. And it turns out, oh yeah, it's a documentary, and I forgot the business is different than it was back when
I first started. And so to me, I can just watch that and take Undertaker out of it, and take out the sound and just the behind the scenes footage watching people with their guard down to a great degree, not entirely because there's camera, you know, cameras backstage, but
seeing that interaction is fascinating. I mean, I remember my first time's backstage at wrestling events and whether it was in shows in the eighties or in the very early ninety starting to go backstage at at at wrestling events, and it is just fascinating. And now it's such an open book. You know, if you haven't been through years of having that closed off, it doesn't it's it's it's not a shocking to see it, but it's still fascinating.
I think, and Tony Khan's been someone although it's different with being the elite, but the aw product and Tony Kahn they don't go they don't take you backstage like it's there's an interviewer and there's the ring. And he kind of wanted the backstage setting to be a little bit more sacred again as opposed to w B, where it just you know, cameras pointing everywhere and you know,
just catching people hanging out backstage in the interviewing. So we still it's it's an evolving and I don't I wonder if there's not going to be kind of a springback, uh to to there's to protect I don't want to say protecting business, but screening viewers from creating a mystique again. I remember Mickey James an interview with Pat McNeil like twenty years ago on The Torch, just said, we're all becoming too familiar with fans and the mystique isn't there
because of it. And I wonder if the kind of the next big thing is going to be kind of all that Undertaker's taken it to the far end of opening everything up. If the next big thing is going to be actually closing the curtain again, So you create a mistique that fans, whether they realize it or not, might enjoy more because they have some questions left that aren't answered by going onto a website or a documentary on the network.
Well, I have to say that if they do that, I'm all in. I would love to see the curtain closed again, as much as I helped open it in my tiny way back covering the business back when I started PROG Wrestling Spotlight. But yeah, I mean, if they could bring back that mystique a little bit and close that curtain and give the fans something to think about and not you know, expose their personal lives the way they do on social media, it would be better for the business.
Yeah. Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AEW Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts on the show or a topic you want us to address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at pwtorch dot com, Weadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments that same email applies Wadekeller podcast at pwtorch
dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think of what we're saying, and let us know what you want us to talk about and ask us specific questions. Wadkeller podcast at pw torch dot com. All right, I want to talk a little baseball with you. You're a Mets fan and you've got to meet this in baseball. I know it's a big part of your life.
M h.
What do you think is going to happen? I mean they're back together working on out COVID positive cases. Do you think the season will start as scheduled? And do you you know we asked wrestling fans asked that question of themselves. Do I want to watch it without a crowd and most are who would have been watching otherwise? Do you think base do you think it'll work? And what do you think baseball could learn for pro wrestling?
I doubt they've learned anything because it seems like there's wrestling going on in the whole world doesn't know it. The rest non fans don't know it, like they just talk like there's it's amazing. How if you're not a wrestling fan, you don't even know it's actually still going on because they still talk about there's no there's no sports or live entertainment. There is, there's no to be an a w But what what could baseball learn from how wrestling has been presented? Uh, so far.
I think they need to get more intimate and I think that that will be accomplished with micing a lot of the ballplayers, you know in the field. They did an experiment last year and and had some games where the players were miked, and it was really cool. I think they got to do that, and they got to focus in more on close up shots and and and shoot it a little bit differently. You know, it's baseball and all, but you got to handle the presentation because of the situation in a different way.
And we'll see if that happens or not.
I still have a funny feeling inside of me that there's going to be no baseball. I think there's too many questions, and when you have players who are testing positive, and when they test positive, they have to be quarantined and they're being very secretive about it. I think there's still as much as I want to watch it and I'll watch it in front of nobody. I'll watch it because I miss it so desperately. I still have a gut feeling that something is going to happen that prevents
the season from starting. And it's only a few weeks away. I hope it doesn't happen, but I just have this gut feeling, you know, I miss it so much. I miss it terribly, and you know, just I was driving up here in March to twelve to pick my nephew up to go to spring training, like we have for twelve years consecutively, and that's the day they canceled it. And then I show up in New York and we're
all disappointed. I was like, let's go anywhere they may change it, but then it was like no, the crap really hit the fan the following day and I decided to ride this pandemic up with my family in New York.
But baseball has been a part of it, Waite. What I'm doing right now every single day with my nephew, we're playing MLB the Show on PlayStation four, which is so realistic and I never, you know, haven't played a video game in years, and we're playing the Mets season, and we're in August right now, and that's our baseball fix,
but we missed the real thing. I'm hoping. I'm hoping that we could see baseball again, But I still have a funny feeling that it's still maybe a little bit too dangerous, you know it.
Pro wrestling might be, it's not. It's not like one hundred percent safe, of course, doing what they're doing, but it's uniquely exponentially safer than team sports because teams have to practice together to get good.
Yeah, and there's so many more of them.
And there's so many more of them, and there's so many teams. It's like when you think about a pro wrestler's month, if if in ideal circumstances, And let's be honest, not all wrestlers. Some are listening to Tucker Carlson nonsense and and think masks don't do anything, even though Tucker Carlson a couple months ago said, of course, the science is their masks do stuff. I mean, it's just insane, you know. I mean, but there's people who are hearing insane,
non scientific things for god knows what reason. That's going to kill tens of thousands of people. But that said, so not every wrestler is being as safe as they should. But ideally a wrestler could self isolate at home, you know, work out. There's ways to work out where you don't go to a public gym, you know, stay in shape and then drive themselves to the building and isolate in the locker room. Social distance from the producer, social distance
from the opponent when they work out the match. You're wearing a mask anytime you're anywhere but alone or you know, far enough away from someone. And then you go to the ring and there's a referee and another wrestler and you have eleven minutes of you know, give or take five minutes of close contact, and then it's over and you go back and maybe you stay for another taping or not if you have another match, and that's it. Now,
that's not zero danger. There's a referee who could be a super spreader who gets it and then gives it to everybody else. And ideally they're rotating referees and all that. Ideally referee would be wearing masks. But all that said, if you play on a baseball player or NBA players week or month, it's exponentially different. It's way more dangerous. And so we've had positives in wrestling, and it's been people who interview wrestlers with a microphone that is held
up to them and they're within a foot of them. Needlessly, they could be doing split screen headset interviews, but they're not. They're having all these people hold microphones for people, and it's just I'm still flabbergasted that they are doing this. It just feels so unnecessary and more dangerous than most other things that are happening on wrestling shows, and a lot of them and the producers are the ones who
have tested positive that we know so far. I don't know how you have baseball, basketball, football, hockey and not have it be exponentially more positive COVID cases, even if they try to isolate in a bubble for a season. I just, I mean, I hope, like you, it works. But with you, what is that the Giants today delaying their practice because there's a delay in getting test results back. There's Minnesota Twins players testing positive. You've got players opting
out of even participating. I just, I mean, I'm I
don't know what's gonna happen either. I hope they can figure it all out, but all it takes is out of however many hundreds of baseball play, there are just a few who are listening to the wrong people on television or the wrong relative, or belong to the wrong Facebook group chat, and they're going to have information that goes completely against science, completely against everything that a well informed person who can decipher fact from nonsense can do.
And they're gonna be the ones who bring it into that bubble and spread it, and it can ruin it for everybody, because I do think there is a safe way to run baseball. There's a safe way to do anything. But you got to isolate everybody for two weeks and everybody who's going to be in contact with anybody, and then separate them from their families, and it's it. Is it worth it? It's not going to be worth it for some?
Yeah, I think the problems, the potential problems certainly can raar their head in any given time. And all it takes is one superstar or one anyone to get incredibly sick from this virus and then it's over yep, and
they're gonna stop it, yep. And it could they could play a couple of games, they can play a week, but it seems like it's inevitable that something is going to happen, and that's the worst thing that can happen is to start the season and then all of a sudden it's over and everyone's going to feel devastated, not just for the person or players that have been affected
by this, but the fan base, the sport, everything. I mean, it's just we're in uncharted waters, uncharted territory here, and no one knows what the right well, the right thing is to wear a mask and to wash your hands into socially distance. That's the right thing too, but there's too many unknowns and too many variables out there right now, and at least we got wrestling right.
Yes.
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net along with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
pwboom dot com. Once again, that's pwboom dot com.
Well, John, I'm not shocked we went longer than we plan But anything y else you want to bring up before we wrap up, I don't want to sign off if you had made a mental note to bring something up.
No, I think we've covered just about everything, and I certainly really enjoyed reconnecting with you. It's been quite a while.
I know we saw each other last year, but we haven't really talked on a podcast or in a professional setting for a long time. So it's been really cool to hear from you and for you to allow me to do this with you.
I'm glad it worked out. Good luck with your project again. Tell people social media and how to connect at Well. Your website's Matt memory com and that's the main place to go.
Yeah, that's the sign up and that's not launched yet, but certainly go to the Facebook dot com John Orazi's Matt Memories to see the live Saturday night show six o'clock Eastern each Saturday. And then is the podcast pwspod dot com Pro Wrestling Spotlight Then and Now takes you back thirty years to listen to a show with me and hosted by co hosted by Brian last So I'm enjoying that part of it. And that's really it. I mean, wait, thank you, I appreciate it.
So, John, this is a show I'm going to play for people, give them a taste of what they can get a ton of and like more than anywhere else with your stuff. There's a ton of them on peopleWe torch vip too, but without your updated content and reactions to it. September nineteenth, nineteen ninety two, and it is the debut episode of Progrestling this week that followed the person Spotlight radio show that you hosted, and I'm on. I'm a guest, and we talk about controversies with Bill
Watts running WSW. Also Dave Meltzer joins you then to talk about blow ups with Bill Watts and ww talent including Brian Pillman and Paul Hayman. So that's the fun episode. We're going to put up a window into what you did twenty about twenty eight years ago.
Very cool.
So people enjoy it. Thanks Jaan so much. We'll talk hopefully and not too low.
All right, thank you, Ed.
All right, So here we go. The September nineteenth edition of John Arezzi's radio show with me as a guest analyst and then after that Dave Meltzer joining him to talk about CERN events and wrestling. This's a lot of fun. Enjoy this and don't forget if you become a PW towrs VIP member. Hundreds of retro radio shows from the
nineteen nineties are instantly available. Tons hosted by John Orezzi out of New York and Tons hosted by me out of the Minneapolis Saint Paul area on Kfan Radio in the early nineties, and more so go vip or at least check out details go to PW torch dot com slash go vip. As we mentioned, times are tough in the advertising marketplace right now. Our revenue is We're an ad based business in a lot of ways, and our revenue is way down, another sharp decline this month already.
So you can show support for us and help a small business during these times by becoming a member. And rates are as low as eight dollars and twenty five cents a month with a one year membership. A one month membership is just nine dollars in ninety nine cents. To check out all the features, so go read about it and then sign up. It just takes a couple of minutes. Pwtorch dot com slash go vip so many benefits. I think you'll love it. Give us a try. PW torch dot com slash go vip.
Hi you've been wrestling fans, John A. Rizzi Here for our return edition. Here WNYG for the Pro Wrestling This Week Show. If I've never heard this type of program before, I'm just gonna inform you that we're gonna have a lot of fun here. We're gonna talk about all the latest pro wrestling news that's breaking each and every week out there.
And if those of you are.
Listening for the first time don't know my background, I'm a former pro wrestler myself, have been covering the business for a long time, about twenty years or so, and we get right behind the scenes when we talk about pro wrestling. We don't pull any punches here, and there's a lot of things that are breaking each and every week in the business that we're gonna go over and
we're gonna have a good time with this program. So just keep the doll where it is and for the next hour, you'll be entertained and informed about the world of professional wrestling.
Now, it's been a while since I've been here WNYG.
Matter of fact, I started my program Pro Wrestling Spotlight, which is currently on in New York City station WEVD. We started that program right here back in April ninth, nineteen eighty nine.
And we're back here to.
Inform the fans and give them a little bit a further coverage of pro wrestling, which these days you certainly need. Now it is my first show back here. What is this an alarm.
Clock we'd have sitting in here? First of all, I think makes a lot of noise. Smash it. I think I will get it out of it. And this is my engineer, Tom Good Evening, Oh good after no good morning. Tom went to school with my sister, Donna West Babylon. Here Donna West Babylon High School band together. Pretty wild. It was even the more amazing when I walked. I had seen her in ten years and I walked to the station when I got hired, and all of a sudden,
bamned there. It was give me get that out of there. You get this one. Actually, it's the wooden one. It's the wooden it's the wooden clock there it is? Is that what it is? Yeah? You know it's got that big two and a half horse to come to Moto be around here. I tell you we're gonna have a lot of fun, and I'm gonna call in now.
I'm gonna tell you fans out there who are listening to pro wrestling this week, that we will be taking phone calls later on. We're expecting to hear from Wade Keller and a little bit from a pro wrestling torch. A lot of stuff happening in World Championship Wrestling which we need to talk about. But we as we do on our w EVD show at eleven o'clock every Saturday night, we bring on Donnie Lible to talk about all the late breaking wrestling news.
And that's what we're gonna do right now.
Matter of fact, now I've forgotten how this works in here, Tom do I pick the phone up? Okay, and I just punch him on and we're ready to go. Then I would guess, Donnie, are you there?
Yes they am.
John.
I'll say, it's a lot of fun, a lot of excitement to be back on fourteen forty and besides all the wrestling news going on. I got to tell you today in a mail came the September twenty fourth issue of Weekly Gone Wrestling magazine from Japan, and they had a sixteen color photo spread on the weekend of champions including the people from LMS Comics made it so a lot's happening there in Japan about the convention.
Excuse me, don I'm just changing heads. That's yere, Okay, just keep going.
Hey, okay, why don't we get right into the caps of the week. A lot of interesting news and sites being reported for big shows coming up, while several familiar and new faces are expected to be popping up within the World Wrestling Federation shortly. Terry Taylor, most recently with World Championship Wrestling and Steve Armstrong are said to be
coming into the Fed this week. And remember that Bruce Pritchett Feller, he played the Brother Love character, Well, he's back in as an administrative assistant in the Federation to Pat Patterson in Stanford, Connecticut. Richfield, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland, will be the host site of this year's Survivor Series show Thanksgiving weekend in the Richfield Coliseum, which has housed
two previous Survivor Series pay previews. The top two matches scheduled art The Ultimate Maniac that's Randy Savage and The Ultimate Warrior. They'll be taking on Razor Ramon with Rick Flair now. The second main event Pitts the Big boss Man against Nails with a Knight Stick on a pole match, while WCW is singing the TV ratings woes as they have lost airing their program on the Chicago superstation WGN
that was hosted by Tony Shavani and Larry Zubisco. The last pro show aired last Saturday, and look for Shane Douglas and Eric Wats to begin Tag Teamy regularly later this month, and WCW TV personality and nine hundred line host Lance Russell will be retiring from the company on November one. From the where Are They Headed department now, Kevin Sullivan has his bags packed for another tour with
Wing in Japan. The Iron Cheeks taking his matches in the Caribbean for the World Wrestling Council, The Junkyard Dog and Mister Hughes are appearing in the USWA and tonight in the Big Baseball Stadium in Yokohama, Japan. It'll be Killi Kowalski and the Golden Greek themselves, John Tolas. They'll be chasing each other around the ring for the Megacard presented by FNW. And finally from the scrapbook files, Water Milestone eleven years ago this past Thursday. That was on
September seventeenth is nineteen eighty one. In Kansas City, Missouri, the Nature Boy Rick Flair won his first National Wrestling Alliance heavyweight title and Hoodie beat the American Dream Dusty Rhoads, of course, and another title trivia back on September twenty fourth, nineteen eighty four.
That was eight years ago.
This week breg the Ham of Valentine Strip the WWF Intercontinental Championship from Tito Santana in London, Ontario, Canada for Pro Wrestling this week, I'm Don Libell reporting Capsule Time, ten oweight.
Well, Donnie, certainly happy to have you here at WNYG with us and tonight we have some late breaking news which are going to tell the wrestling fans in WEVD. That's ten fifty am tonight at eleven regarding Paulie Dangerously, some late breaking news regarding him and both Fly and Brian Pillman, and we'll be getting into that tonight and our special guests, as you know, tonight on the Pro Wrestling Spotlight in WEVD will be Hawked from Legion Doom.
That'll be good. And a couple other quick notes to report on the wrestling observers reporting that russell Mania this year will be held in Madison Square Garden. Steve Armstrong, as I reported, is possibly going to the WWF.
As early as this week, possibly.
As a singing cowboy character and mentioning about Lance Russell retiring. Believe w TBS has a mandatory retirement age of sixty five, so that may be one of the reasons why Lance is leaving the company. But looking forward to hearing Hawk tonight could be, as far as I know, his first public radio interview about why he's not with the WWF and what his plans are.
Yes, lots of things to talk about tonight, and Donnie, we will talk to you at eleven o'clock tonight on ten point fifty AMWVD.
Thanks lot, Joe, I have a good show.
Thank you. Okay.
Don Libell from upstate New York right here Cooperstown, and he'll be giving us updates each and every week right here at the Pro Wrestling Spotlight.
Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to the mailbox each week with a PW Torch Newsletter paper copy. Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash paper Copy.
It's twelve pages every week packed with my TV reports, along with exclusive features such as my cover story on the top story of the week, our pay per view roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan, and Zach Hadorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more.
PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. Take a break from screen time and settle in every week with the megadosup wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch Newsletter paper copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two. You can get a full year of home delivery for just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight week trial subscription PW torch dot Com slash paper Copy.
We're gonna get into a first commercial break of the day. I want to tell you about our next big bus trip.
Now. Fans here at WNYG, remember We used to go.
All over the East Coast to wrestling events, and we got a big bus trip getting ready to take off to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Sunday, October twenty fifth. That's the WCW's next pay per view spectacular, Halloween Havoc. You don't want to miss the NWA title match between Ravishing Rick through the Challenger. He's the current WCW champion as far as the United States Champion and the NWA title holder from Japan.
Masa Shono stingtakes on Jake the Snake, Roberts and a Spin the Wheel Make the Deal match Ron Simmons versus the Barbarian for the WCW title and all the stars of World Championship Wrestling. Each person coming on the bus with us will receive a goodie back film, but eight by ten photos, wrestling trading cards, newsletters, and other surprises.
You'll have a ringside seat for all the action.
We got rows four and five, and you'll watch videos on our video bus. It's first come, first served, fifty dollars round trip bus fair ticket to the show, or forty dollars if you're Pro Wrestling Spotlight Booster Club member to make your reservation call five one six, five eight seven two eight six one. That's five one, six, five, eight seven, two eight sixty one. With enough of a response, we'll have our first pickup right in the back here
at WNYG and Babylon. Other pickup points Long Island Park and Ride Exit forty nine and at the ballpark restaurant Steinway Street in Astoria.
And just give me a call after the show at five one.
Six, five eight seven two eight six one for our next big bus trip to WCW's Halloween Havocs show Sunday, October twenty fifth.
Make your reservation now.
Hey, wrestling fans nine can get daily updates. Hey, we're back here.
At WNYG for the first Pro Wrestling This Week program, and we're about to bring on a special guest that almost irregular been on the while on WEVD show Pro Wrestling Spotlight, and he's one of the foremost wrestling journalists, legitimate wrestling journalists in the business today. I'm referring to Wade Keller, the editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch.
Now, way are you there with us? How you been today?
I've been pretty good. It's early EPIS, so things can get worse or better, but so far, so good.
That's good to hear. Now we're here at WNYG and we're having our new debut show here Pro Wrestling this week.
Now. In the last week or so, lots of stuff happening in the world of World Championship Wrestling.
Now, as far as.
Wrestling journalists out there, you are, I would guess the person who talks to Cowboy Bill Watts on a regular basis, and that dates back to the annual that you published last year, an extensive interview with Wats and lots of things shaking and WCW.
Right.
Now, regarding Bill Wats, no, I.
Didn't get the Pro Wrestling torch this week, but I understand that you did address with Cowboy Bill Wats some of the situations that have been happening in that company as far as the recent cutbacks.
Right, Can you get into it a little bit.
As far as far as what's going on down there?
I know the companies in a state of almost in the state of chaos backstage, A lot.
Of the wrestlers are paranoid, not knowing what their role is. Can you get into it a little.
Bit with us waited as far as what's going on sure Well.
The words that I had heard going into before I talked to Bill was that there was quite a bit of that Bill Watts was doing everything he could to get certain people to voluntarily either alter their contract or sign away their guaranteed contract in favor of something else.
Upon talking to more people, it became apparent that Brian Pillman was the one who was probably given the most forceful, the most forceful persuasion to say to get out of his contract and lower his guaranteed bonuses in exchange for a larger push, in other words, getting more title shots, being able to be more prominently pushed on television, not be doing jobs on TV like he probably will be because he turned it idea out for down now. And
then I talked to Bill Watts about it. I didn't know how legal this was, how ethical this was, if he would just deny it, or if he felt confident with what he was doing and could defend it, and he did his best to defend it, just explaining that in Brian Pilman's contract there are clauses, bonus clauses in that contract which if he gets pushed, if he gets title shots, if he gets this, if he gets that
where he's prominently pushed, he will get more money. And Bill Watts was explaining that he thinks Brian Pillman is overpaid as he as it is in you know, one hundred and fifty two hundred fifty thousand dollars range guaranteed, it's you know, somewhere between there plus bo and Watts said that he explained to Brian that he thought he was overpaid, he wasn't approven draw and that w W wasn't making money and that just like uh, you know,
Northwest Airlines just recently asked their pilots their pilot union to take a cut and pay and the pilots agreed that Brian Pillman should do the same thing for the good of the company and in exchange for that good will move, Brian Pillman would be given Uh, Brian Pillman would would if he forego his if before wearing his bonuses. If he gave those up, then he would get a bigger push, featured prominently in the light heavyweight division as
the main man. Yeah, Brian turned him down, and apparently Watts, from what we hear, got angry. Watts said that he wasn't that that he wasn't forceable with most of the guys, although he didn't indicate that he was that he probably handled the recrud situation. He didn't use word professionally, but he that that was the gist of it. He handled it more professionally than he did the Brian Pillman situation.
Yeah, we're gonna get it to ruin a minute.
I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host Wrestling Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to find the best wrestling from the smallest places.
There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and women who could be big time stars in a few years.
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Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling.
No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester, Oh right.
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The Pilmot situation, now, here's a guy that he just turns heel at the Clash of the Champions. Uh, here's a guy that is one of the most talented performers in the company. And uh, just the fact that Pilman is now demoted to lose when he's opening the show.
I guess the first match situation now is Brian. What's what's Brian?
Do you have any idea what Brian's feeling is about the company? Is he gonna stay with WCW. When does his contract expire?
First of all, his contract expires sometime next year. And I'm with all the contract talk, it's starting to call all one together. But his contract I believe expired. It's it's it's quite a it's quite a way the way. It's like probably nearly a year left on it. Uh, And I might be a few months off, but I think about a year is left on it, and I suspect he will probably stick it out. Like Watts said,
there's not a lot of options yet. I think Filman would be smart to just accept the money that's coming his way and uh and hope that, you know, hope things will change down the line, be it be it in leadership at w W or the leadership's attitude towards him. If if Bill Watts stays in control, I think he'll stick around. I don't know, though, I mean, I'm not I'm not talking to Brian Pillman personally. He hasn't said anything,
you know, on record concerning the situation. And although I certainly don't think that if he did at this point, Bill Wats would get any more upset.
Than he is.
Yeah, So Tilman in the in the watch Dog house, and it's not a pretty place to be, especially when one is considered a top talent in the company and he's used to getting a push.
Yeah, I think I think, I mean, Watts has a point. I think Wants made that point in uh in a way that that I think isn't reflective of respect towards the wrestlers he called in the in the Torch interview, he called wrestlers knee jerkers who who don't understand the business, yet they think they have a solution to everything. And and he was very he was very negative towards the
intellect of the wrestlers and compared them saying no to him. Uh. He said that they say no to me, yet if they weren't working for this company, they certainly wouldn't make anything near that teaching school or pumping gas and and
you know, it's kind of derogatory towards him. I'm not sure what their action is going to be when when when this interview comes out, But he felt very strongly that that he was in the right because a lot of companies ask very talented people to take pay cuts so the company can stay in business, or in w W's case, try to you know, start making some some money or more money or whatever it is. I don't have the books in front.
Of me now.
The ravishing rip Root situation route is on a guaranteed agree as well as his Sting. Sting as the highest paid wrestler in the business, making well over seven hundred thousand a year.
Let's say, now, has.
He approached these guys also and want them to sign new agreements that don't guarantee them as much money.
We'll start with.
Rude, Okay.
The Root situation was somebody else who was talked about in the same breath with Pilman last week, and Sing hadn't yet been talked to from everything I'd heard, But Watts did have a meeting scheduled with him about what five or six days ago was the Monday, the first Monday this week. So while I was doing all the footwork this weekend and talking to talking to Watts, I talked about the Root situation because I knew that he
had met with Rude. From the gist of it, Watts said that Watt said that there was no anger on Root's part. He talked about how valuable Root is to the company and how Rude and Sting are the two proven commodities in WW more than anybody else. Was very complimentary of him, and and said the deal the deal with Route had nothing to do with the deal with Pilman.
It appears that the situation with Rude was that, like Tilman, Rude was offered a lump sum of money to give up his guaranteed contract, and in exchange he would be given a guaranteed amount of money, let's say one thousand dollars for every night he worked, but with no guarantee for the number of nights he would work, no pay if he got injured, no medical pay if something happened, and he would lose a lot of the benefits that come with a guaranteed contract. I assume I don't think
wants his offering anything like that. But what Rude, if he did give up the guaranteed money in exchange for nightly could almost make if he wrestled, like two hundred and fifty days a year. If his offer was one thousand dollars, you know, he could make what two hundred fifty thousand dollars a year and be in a similar range to what his guarantee was. So that wasn't that negative of an offer when you consider that Rud would also be given a bulk sum of money to begin with.
The problem is is there's no guarantee for how often he would be used, and so he opted to stick with his contract. And Watts indicated that it was an amicable, amicable agreement, that there was no pressure put on Rude, and that Rud left the room without any anger. I heard differently. I heard Rude was angry, but that's that's from a source no more reliable than Bill Watts, so
it's tough to tell in that situation. Monday, he said, Bill Watt said he talked to Sting and that there was no problem with Sting and I haven't heard anything more on it. He said it was a phone call, not a meeting, and did not get into the what was said at the meeting.
Okay, Now, does this means it's Rude and Stain did not want to sign take the lump sum of money to sign new contracts. Does this mean that their days as far as everyday winners in the company could be coming to an end.
I don't think so, and I don't think so in this case because Watts talked so highly about Rude and Sting being so important to World Championship Wrestling and being really the just the leaders in that company. I think with Pillman, Watts felt he had leverage because Pilman wasn't a proven draw. He like, this is a quote from Bill Watts concerning Brian Pillman and Rude and Stink. Everybody's not the same. Tillman's not a Rick Rude, Tillman's not a Sting. Just like Deon Sanders can play two sports
and hold up two organizations. Well, another quarterback may be lucky to be there. And then he goes on about business not being a democracy and people being a commodity, and basically what he's saying is that Rude is valuable to the company, Sting is valuable to the company. And he said if Pillman left the company, it won't add up to a hill of beans. So I don't think. I think he's got a very different attitude on Rude
and Sting versus Tillman. And I don't think Rud and Sting will find much punishment for not accepting whatever offer he made. Yes, but I might be proven wrong.
Well, it's certainly not a not a very comfortable time for the wrestlers in the company.
You don't have to wait for the way Keller Prog Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, and it will also analyze key segments and give my random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs. So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night
at pwtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I cover those live at pw torch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings. And of course you can find other TV reports from other contributors to PW torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV and pay per view written reports.
One thing that really irritates me, and I'm sure that it's.
Very, very stressful for the wrestlers, is that these new contracts do not include medical coverage now Here, Guys that are taking bumps in the ring night after night just to wear and tearing your body on a regular basis.
It's just it happens.
Now, Let's say a guy like Cactus Jack Okay, who's one of the most risk taking wrestlers that get into the ring.
Now, if you don't have medical coverage, no other guy's out.
Right Now, he's got a torn groin, a muscle, he's got some knee ligaments that are out. This is really adverse to the wrestling conditions to the wrestlers to work under.
Right, Well, TBS is asking professional wrestlers to risk their bodies in order to help them draw fans to the arena and draw TV ratings. In exchange, they're paying them money. If the wrestlers agree to take that risk for the amount of money they're being offered, I guess in a in a in a free market, open market system, that's a voluntary choice the wrestlers are making. That's the argument that says, you know, the promotion has no obligation because
anyone who doesn't choose to work for them doesn't have to. However, morally or I guess ethically, is a better way to put ethically, should should w w off for medical coverage? Absolutely? I mean and it's just that's I mean, that's why there's minimum wage laws. To a certain extent, that's why companies are are forced to, uh give there's a bill about parental leave from from businesses. There's different things that businesses.
Good businesses just do. And I think since w W draws upon the public for their money, I think that they deserve publicity for the fact that they don't give medical coverage to their wrestlers, because I think that that is, you know, that's called goodwill with the public, and I think that takes away a lot of ww's goodwill with the public and how the public receives w W as far as behind the scenes company, I think that reflects
very poorly on them. I think they should offer medical benefits, whether they do that through an independent insurance company or they just offer certain guarantees or certain paid to wrestlers who do get injured. I think that's their responsibility. But at the same time, I don't feel they're obligated, but I think that they should.
Yeah, let me ask you a question.
You know, WATS perhaps better than anybody out there, as far as I'm a journalistic standpoint relationship, is he any for the long haul with WCW.
He gives every indication he is. It's there's a lot of speculation that can take place that Bill Wants is in it for short term to cut expenses as much as he can, get rid of all the guaranteed contracts, bringing guys who are work cheap, get his percentage of whatever whatever it is he says WW, which Bill Wats
denied his contract did. He was unwilling to say whether Bill Wants was unwilling to say whether his contract was a guarantee or based on incentives, but he did say that he didn't say it was a ridiculous notion that he got paid a person of whatever he saved TPS for whatever that's worth. That's what he said. But let's say he's on some sort of incentive plan where he does get more money. The more money he cuts, the
more expenses he cuts. With that being the case, I would say that maybe Bill Wats doesn't know if he's in this for the long term or the short haul, but he will do what he can, first of all to make his first six months profitable for himself and cutting expenses for the company, which I think is what he was instructed to do, and what he guarantee Bomp doing Bill Sean he could do, and so in a way, I think he's keeping his word. Did Sean do again?
I'm speculating here, but did Seawn do think that Watts would go about it tactically like he has in the lacking respect to a lot of the personnelities with be it that the personnel deserve criticism and they handle themselves immaturely or not. If you're a leader, I think that you should respond to irresponsible action with responsible, cool headed action yourself. That's just your role because you're a leader,
and you should set an example. I don't think from all indications, he's been doing that, and he would even probably admit that he hasn't been doing that. So probably come the end of the year, he'll probably look at the situation, so we'll Bob doing Bill Shaw. I don't think he's on a long term deal. I don't know that for sure. No one's commenting officially, but all indications are that he might be on just a six month deal.
Then I think it'll be evaluate it should Bill want to day for the long term or should we let him go and try to bring somebody else in.
A good question one, it should be answered, and it's just a vialcial situation here now.
It's not a question.
Wade and a lot of people have talked about this for a number of years. With everything that's going on in WCW right now, and of course it's a little bit more stable in the WWF, although they don't guarantee contracts either. And do you think it's time for pro wrestlers to unionize.
There's a lot of talk of that right now, and in a way, for the sake of the wrestlers over the long term, I hope things get a lot worse before they get better. In ww I think that would be up to smart enough, even even if they're being phony about it, to treat their wrestlers with respect and to treat them well and to uh and to at least make them think they're being treated well, even if
that's a con job and they're in, they're in. They're you know, fooling the wrestlers into thinking that they're getting paid what they're worth and that they're being treated well. As long as the wrestlers believe it, that's that's ninety percent of the game. W W is not doing any of that, so if it gets a little bit worse or quite a bit worse over the next couple of months, and the top guys Sting and Rick Rutu get upset with with the way they're being treated, and they're going
to be around here a long time. Yeah, I'd love to see a union. Do I think it's going to happen? Do I think Root and Sting are going to risk seven hundred or three hundred some thousand dollars a year respectively each so that they can help out some other wrestlers. Uh, that's the question mark. And I don't think that a union attempt is going to work without Stinging Rick rut behind them. Yeah, that's the real question mark. I think that's a good idea their.
Key players, and that they have to be involved in something like this is going to take off.
Wait, we appreciate your time here today at.
Pro Wrestling this week, and you have an excellent publication that comes out every single week, and you also have an annual that's I guess just about ready to go.
Yeah, if you have gone out bolk of which will be mailed Monday.
Okay, great, Can you tell the fans out there how to get a copy of the Torch and how to get a copy of the yearbook.
Absolutely the address for prog Wrestling Torch Weekly, which is six dollars for four issues. But if you drop me a postcard, I off send you out a couple of samples for free. It's Pro Wrestling Torch PO Box two oh one eight four to four PO Box twenty eighteen forty four, Minneapolis, Minnesota, MN five five four to two zero and the annual is twelve dollars and you'll get information on the annual if you don't want to order it right away. I'll give information when they order the newsletters.
Okay, and we'll talk to you next week on the Pro Wrestling Spotlight on WEVD excellent and continue to wade.
We appreciate you coming on today.
Thanks for having me on. Good luck with your new show, John Kay, thank you.
Okay, wait teller Pro Wrestling Torch out in Minneapolis. We're gonna open up the phone lines for you the fans now at area code five one six sixty six one fourteen forty and UH lines are open and ready to go. So if you want to give us a call six six one fourteen forty, UH will be the number and they're ringing. Uh, We're gonna go to a fast commercial break and we'll get on with your calls and come.
I'm Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks NXT, the longest running NXT podcast anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg, Bruce Lee, Hazelwood and special guests, live every Tuesday night, just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the bad, and the ugly on the way to becoming a star in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or stream later wherever you get your podcasts.
How you doing, New York Wrestling fans, John ARESI here with another edition of the Pro Wrestling Spotlight right here on ten fifty New York's Great or ten to fifty WVD, and happy to be back here for another night of broadcasting and giving you all the inside information on what's
happening in the world of pro wrestling. Well, we debuted our other show this morning out on Long Island Pro Wrestling this week on fourteen forty am WNYG, and we had a good time with the program, and we're going to continue our conversation tonight about what's been happening behind the scenes in WCW A lot of interesting developments down there. We will scheduled tonight. As a matter of fact, he may call in. I'm not sure, but I don't think so.
Hawk from Legion to Doom due to the fact that he has not gotten his official release from the WWF. His attorney, Larry Rappaport out of Minneapolis, I guess advising him not to do the show until he gets that official release. So if he does call in, it would be a surprise, but we'll keep the line open for him. Instead, we're gonna bring you a couple of top wrestling journalists. We had Wade Keller on a Pro Wrestling this Week's show out on WNYG this morning at ten am, and
we're gonna bring Wade on with Dave Meltzer. Now WCW things are just going crazy behind his scenes there with Bill Watts cutting salaries, trying to get guys to sign new contracts.
We'll elaborate on that here. We also have an update.
I spoke to Sid Justice just before we went on the air, and Sid is still having problems getting his release from the WWF. He said his hands are tied up, but he does want to talk about what's been going on he's getting a little fed up. He wants to get back to work, and we might have him on this program or the Long Island Show next week. But we have an exciting show for years always, and the number to call here is two one, two four seven seven five six one zero and we'll talk wrestling with you.
Have any questions for Dave or Wade to the top experts in the field, you can certainly call them up and we'll talk about it with you right here on wev D. So our conference call with Wade and Dave is coming in as we speak, I guess it is, and we're going to talk to you about last week we mentioned about our bus trip. First of all, we are going to yes, a conference call coming in. Yeah, we're not gonna put it on here just yet. We'll go to our first commercial break of the day and
we're gonna talk about one of our sponsors. We talk about our bus trip, and of course one of our sponsors is LNS Comics for Wrestling Spotlight's next bus trip October twenty fifth to Halloween Havoc. Okay, we're going to continue with the show now and bring on Don Libel as we do every week, to get us the Pro Wrestling Spotlight News capsule. So why don't we punch Donnie up right now and we'll bring him on.
Donnie there, Sam John, I want to thank you, And just a quick note, I want to remind people if they could get a whole a copy of the Weekly Gong, Japanese magazine. The September twenty second issue has a big coverage on the convention of sixteen color photos in all, so that's something they want to get onto. But let's get right into the capsule for this week. Lots happening well, new and familiar faces are expected to be popping up
within the World Wrestling Federation shortly. Terry Taylor most recently was World Championship Wrestling, and Steve Armstrong is said to be coming into the Fed as early as this week. And remember Bruce Pritchett, he's the fellow who played the Brother Love character. Well, he's returned to the flock in Stanford, Connecticut, reportedly as an administrative aid to JJ Dillon. Richfield, Ohio, a suburb of Cleveland, will once again be the host side of this year's Survivor series show to be held
Thanksgiving weekend. Now in the Richfield College, which has housed two previous Survivor pay per views. The top two matches scheduled our Randy Savage and the Ultimate Warrior taking on the duo of Razor Ramone and Rick Flair, and a second main event pits the Big Boss Man against Nails
in a nightstick on a Pole match. In other WWF news, for the first time for the time being looked for Crush to be paired with Animal in the Legion of Doom, and the Wrestling Observers reporting that nineteen ninety three russell
Mania will be held in Madison Square Garden. Well, WCW is singing in the TV blues as they have not only lost two outlets in the Boston area for their programming, but also their slot on the Chicago superstation WGN that was hosted by Tony Shavanni and Larry's Obisco Watch for Shane Douglas and Eric Watts sent him WCW Executive vice president Bill Wats to begin teaming regularly by month's end, and a sad note of sorts, WCW TV personality and
current nine hundred line host Lance Russell will be retiring from the company on November one, last Monday, at Memphsis, miss South Coliseum, Hot Stuff Attie Gilbert successfully defended his USWA Unified title opposite Sergeant Slaughter. And tonight in Yokohama, Japan, two wrestling legends Killer Kowalski and the Golden Greek John Tolas will be chasing each other around the ring on the Mega card presented by Frontier Martial Art Wrestling. Finally
from the scrapbook files, Water Milestone eleven years ago. This past Thursday, on September seventeenth, nineteen eighty one, it was in Kansas City, Missouri. Nature Boy Rick Flair won his first National Wrestling Alliance heavyweight title. Who did he defeat? The American Dream Dusty Rhodes? Of course for the Pro Wrestling Spotlight, I'm Don Libel reporting Capsule Time eleven eleven.
Thank you very much, Donnie, and of course we spoke to you twice today and next week at ten am on fourteen forty WNYG we will we lost our conference called Italy.
Oh boy, Uh tell you what we're gonna do.
Don We'll talk to you next week here at the Pro Wrestling Spotlight as I try to get our conference back. We we'll talk to you next week don take care. We lost them too. Okay, We're going to attempt to get Dave Melter and Wade Keller back.
On the line on the conference.
And as we attempt to do that, can we just go into a quick commercial music bed or something and then we will bring these gentlemen back on.
We'll return right after this.
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Okay back with the Pro Wrestling Spotlight and we got our guests back on the line so why don't we just go straight to our conference as we speak to direct from Campbell, California, the editor and publisher of The Wrestling Observer and the editor and publisher of The Pro Wrestling Torch, the two top wrestling newsletters in the business. Dave Meltzer and Wade Keller, Gentlemen.
Are you there?
Okay?
How you guys doing tonight?
Very good?
I'm doing good too.
Wait a second time I spoke to you today.
Yeah, we're forming a pattern here. This is my third radio show today.
Really, you got your own out in Minneapolis. I'm kfan, and did you discuss the Watch situation today on your show? A lot of response from the fans on that.
There wasn't a real heavy response concerning the Watch situation on the radio, so we had Jim Cornett on and a couple other people, so we didn't have a lot of time to talk about it. The response I've gotten on the answering machine and the fax machine today has been responding to the Watts interview and the Torch. This week. I had two facts and a couple of messages complimentary towards the interview, and it seemed they had a slant favoring lots of side of the argument from what they read.
Okay, what's been happening behind the scenes, and both of you been following it real close. Bill Watch has been really trying to cut expenses across the board at w CW. Situation developed with Brian Pillman. I guess, is Brian home now or is he working?
What's going on with him?
He's he's still like working. I mean, he's not getting be sent home. I guess Paullly dangerously was sent home, but Bryan is still you know, he's still there, but I don't think he's got any kind of a role.
Okay, Watts had tried, wait if you can the jump in here, Wats try to have Pillman sign a brand new contract taking away some some of his incentives. And he's been doing that to a lot of the guys, wanting them to sign new deals cutting their guaranteed.
Pay right Wats, Watts, I don't know if it was a completely new contract. Dave State might know the detail that, but it was basically allowing Pilman to keep the guarantee that he had.
And and just remove all the incentives.
Exactly and forego of the bonuses which which the bonuses came about by pushing Pilman in into UH, but just basically by pushing Pillman in other in whatever way you can hire in the car title matches, whatever the details are. And and because of that, Wats has told Tilman he believes he's overpaid, as is that he that the contract was UH was designed by somebody who's no longer there, Kip Fry, who in Wats's words, doesn't know anything about
the wrestling business or didn't still doesn't UH. And as a results, he says, Brian, there's you know, time, there's times when businesses have to cut back expenses for the good of the company and UH and this is one of those instances where it's for me to be able to push you, to afford to push you, you're gonna
have to take a cut. A lot of people who say that's unfair, especially the way he went about doing it, And there has been some response to people saying, hey, Bill, you know, Bill watsas you know, has every right to do whatever he can in his power to to try to cut expenses from w W And if he doesn't believe Brian Pillman is, if he believes it's it's okay to to turn off Brian Pillman to the degree that he probably has in the process. You know, that's a choice he has to make right or run.
The funniest part of the whole situation is is that the way things stand now, you know, for all the talk about cutting expenses, he's actually costing himself more money because the amount of money that it would cost with somebody in Brian Pilman's position would be far more than the lives in the bonuses that Tilman would be getting for being in the same position, and it's still paying
the same base salary. That's pro because I mean, in this actual situation, people may look at it and say, well, he's just trying to cut costs, but in actuality, he's increasing costs. And it's the same time varying someone because the guy didn't agree to you know, take didn't agree to give up bonuses that were already kind in his contract to begin with.
Which maybe because Wats is used to dealing with wrestlers who cave in to his pressure. And I think from every indication that we've gotten it is that Wat's a tremendous pressure on Pilman, and probably Wats isn't use of people standing up to him, and he probably thought that he would get away with whatever he was trying to do.
Now he did the same thing with a Sting and Rick Rude from what we understand.
Well, each situation I'm sure is different. Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what's with the Sting in the Rick Rude situation other than you know, I know in the case of Rick Rude he wanted to renegotiate the current contract, wherese with Tilman he just wanted to eliminate the bonuses and not renegotiate the contract.
And I think both in Pilman and Root's case. And I don't know anything about the Sting situation except that watsondmitted he called him and said that things were fine
with him. I haven't heard anything else as far as the Sting situation with Rude, he was offered a lump sum of money to give up his guarantee right that would be a large percentage of less than what he would get over the next be least three years, two or three years Rude would be It was probably Rude would have end up with taking in less money, but he would have more right now, you know, he would have a big check right now if he were to
agree to the you know, to watch his deal. And I think the biggest, one of the big issues that's coming out of this John is is that the contract Watts is offering, at least a contract apparently that Wats is offering Rude, probably didn't include any coverage when it comes to medical benefits or injury compensation. So Rude, right now, if he gets injured or it comes across a major problem,
he gets paid while he's off. But with the contract that Wats is asking Rude to accept may have been for a nearly equivalent amount of money if he was used as often, but when when I was said and done, maybe a small cut or a small increase, But he wouldn't get a guarantee of how many dates he would wrestle. And if he got injured, it could be it could be close, or it could be a major decrease, right yes, But in the case, yeah, there's no protection against an injury.
Right well, I can understand that difference.
Really, I can understand for the good of the company cutting expenses because obviously Ted Turner's pockets are very deep. But it's not going to be a lasting situation forever. With the losses, the company is sustained. One thing I don't agree with, and I think this is causing a lot of problems with the wrestlers as well, is that medical coverage.
These guys are out there.
Taking bumps every single day now for them to sign contracts which don't guarantee them any pay if they get hurt, Especially with some of the rules Watches instituted the match off the floor outside the ring, it's risk more. There's more risk involved with the guys working for WATS than there would be elsewhere.
I would argue differently, just because WATS is almost encouraging, is almost demanding of wrestlers that they wrestle in a nineteen seventies primitive style in which encourages this this Matt style wrestling, and not a lot of flashy moves that have evolved through the nineteen eighties, much of which he missed, at least the latter part. And as a result of that, I think that that I would say there's less risk today with the style he's encouraging. He's not encouraging juice
and lager flips over the top rope. He won't let you know he's made rules against brawling outside the ring using the ring barrier in the ring post. So in a sense, you could make an argument that it's less risky than.
It was before.
Well, it's still risky though, absolutely, But I would I wouldn't necessarily say it's more risky.
I don't know that it's more I don't know that it's more risky. It's a different kind of risky because at the same time he wants the brawling to fee a lot stiffer in the ring. And so there's you know, I mean it, there's some of one, some of the other. I don't know that it's necessarily more risky either though.
Yeah, but the mood behind the scenes now as far as the wrestlers go, is not a good one.
No, no, not at all.
I think that, well, we'll have to wait and see what happens. I mean, there's there's you know, each individual wrestler has a different contractual situation and a different frame of mind about this, And I don't think that there's any kind of group to think. I mean, there are guys who are just furious, can't wait to leave, and there are guys who are furious but you know, getting paid big money and want to stay and there, you know, there's all different mindsets and how the dust is all
going to clear, I don't know. I know that Rude and Sting and the Steiners on Wednesday at a meeting with Watts to try to you know, I'm not exactly sure what was discussed in the meeting other than nothing was resolved whatsoever in the meeting.
Okay, it's pretty important to mention that Sting is on a long term, guaranteed contract and all the talk of low morale and problems with ww is probably not going to leave the Sting leaving. And I think that's one rumor that that there's probably a few people in your area, John, that would love to start once again.
Yeah. I like, the guy has a contract for early ninety five and he's making seven one thousand dollars a year and you just can't make that. There's nowhere to make that kind of money in wrestling today. And the other thing is about the Sting leaving is thing has two gyms in Atlanta and is booking at openings the
third right now. So I think it's very beneficial for him to stay in Atlanta rather than go WWS and go all over the country, and you know it would mean somebody else would have to take care of his gym business. So there's a lot of reasons not just wrestling we're sitting would want to stay in Atlanta.
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Okay, in the situation with the guys maybe banding together and organizing some type of perhaps union, what do you think of that? What do you think is that a possibility at all?
I think the odds are great against it, just because I don't think there's a group think I don't think that. I mean, there are individuals, there are certain individuals in the company who will stand up and and and in this situation and not back down. But I don't believe that, you know, I mean, in a situation like that, everybody would have to be of a similar mindset, and I don't. I don't know that they're not, but I don't believe
that they are. And I think that if it came, if push came to shove, I just don't think that they would all stand up in that situation. So I think the odds it'd be great for the wrestlers, and you know, but I just don't see it happening.
And obviously the key players would be rude and sting, and both of them have very probably very satisfactory, if not tremendous contracts. So those would be the two key players that would have to risk there will they're they're.
You know right, they have to risk that thing because if they were to walk out, then he would play right in to watch his hands, because then WATS could terminates the contract for no showing dates, which is probably what you know, pig down what he wants to do. Anyway, because I don't think he wants to be paying those guys the money he's paying them either. But I don't think that he can. I don't think he can justify
bearing either of them. So he's got to play it different way than he played it, let's say with somebody else.
Okay, briefly, let's get into the Paul Dangerously situation.
Now, he's not he's not around. That's a correct. He's been told to stay home.
He's been giving a he's been given a vacation.
Okay, alrighty, we're going to take some phone calls now if you got any questions on the situation already, other questions on pro wrestling number to call two one, two, four, seven, seven five six one oh and uh.
We'll get right to the phones right now. You guys don't mind taking some calls, do you not at all? Okay? Here we go. Hi, you're first.
Hi.
This is Adam from plane Adam, How.
You doing good?
Who is the comic kid?
And where is Gino Bravo wrestling?
The comic Kid is Paul Diamond, and Dino Bravo is doing almost no wrestling. He's going to have his retirement match in December and Montreal for the WWF. But he's pretty much I think he's got just a few matches left, so he basically he's just about retired.
Okay, thanks for recall. You're a next Hello.
Hello, Hi John, It's Mike from College Point.
Mike.
Hi, Dave High Wade, how are you doing? Pretty good?
Wats to saying he wants to cut costs, but then at the clash he brings in all these old wrestlers, only uses them for thirty seconds and then plays the stupid video with Jacin sting that must have cost too much money with all of the stupid special effects at the end.
Well, it's a funny thing. Wade and I talk about this all the time. It's there's different umbrellas in the Turner organization. And while that video I'm sure cost more than all the money we're talking about, you know, and cutting out these different contracts, it probably comes out of
Turner Home Entertainment rather than World Championship Wrestling. So it's you know, it's justified because it's not coming out of the Bill Watts department, even though it's it all comes out of Turner, you know, in one form or another.
Okay, and today, Cactus was leaning towards the fact that it's going to be a fourth guy in his little stable. Who is it?
I don't know who the fourth guy is though. The World Word was scheduled the TV this week but wasn't there. And I don't even know who the third guy in the stable is going to be anymore, because which Reid is also not there anymore?
Scan Yeah, because I don't know. It just seems to me like the second he said it, all I could think was sid vicious. You know.
Well, I spoke to tonight about it, but yeah, anything possible.
Yeah.
I spoke to sit tonight and he still says his hands are tied with the WWF and he's getting real frustrated because he hasn't gotten release yet.
Really didn't the contract in September?
First?
Well, he said he his hands are tied and he hasn't gotten release. That's what he told me about an hour ago.
Okay, thanks guys, thanks for recalling all right. Next, Hello, Hi, this is Keith from Ridgwood. Hey, what we do for Keith?
I'd like to know what role Chrispinoire was going to play in WCW.
I want to understand he's not coming into the first of the year now.
And second one, I just wanted to say Ted Turner is coming to my school on Thursday. You'll be doing a question and answer segment and ironically, Flora Observer readers go to my school and we'll be sitting together and we'll probably get the question over to him what he plans to do if WCW continues to lose money?
Correct, but act non's athleticism.
Yeah, grillam Keith, thanks for your call. Okay, number to call here is two point two four seven six one.
Oh, let's go to our next call. Hi, you're next?
Hi John, how are you? This is Scottain for Jeff.
How you doing?
Your show? Is great this morn I just like to say that thank you. Can you update me on the Woolwood situation.
Well, Dave, you're saying you was scheduled for TV.
His name was on the I think TVs did in Gainesville, Georgia on September ninth, So that's about a little over a week ago.
Is that for w W?
But it was crossed off, So I mean, I know he obviously was talking with WTW, but I don't know where that stands right now.
The powers of pain right now reformed in like an independent federation.
I think they've worked a few independent matches together, but Barbarians mainly with WCW. So Warlord doesn't come in, then no, they're not reformed. And even if Worlord does come in, I think Barbarian is gonna mainly work as a single at least for the short run.
Okay, thanks for calling. Uh That's about it for tonight already. What I'm gonna do is wet uh Dave first, you then Wade, please tell people how to get copies of your publications.
Okay, Well, I'll give anyone who sends in a postcard or a letter a resample copy of the Observer, and the address is post Office box one to eight Campbell fell like the soup, California nine to five zero zero nine.
Okay, And since I'm going second, I'll send two free issues to anybody who wants to drop a line in the mail to Progress and Torch Peelbox two oh one eight four to four. That's Peelbox twenty eighteen forty four, Minneapolis, Minnesota, five five four to two oh or they can simply call six one two eight five four four two seven four and leave their address on the answering machine and I'll get a couple of sample copy six one two eight four four two seven four.
Gentlemen, thank you very much, appreciate it.
Jack.
Okay, take care now. We'll talk to you soon. And UH just want to remind everybody again at next Saturday. Uh, we have another radio show as well. If we only have half hour here right now, I want to just remind you if you want to hopefully get the show expanded, we have a new nine hundred number, nine hundred nine three three seven five two six write it down nine hundred nine three three seven five two six special days Wednesday and Friday for pro wrestling spotlight listeners. We'll give
you updates on what's happening here at the show. Uh, just a dollar.
Forty nine a minute.
If we get everybody out there calling once a week, twice a week, we'll be back to an hour reil soon here. But we have another radio show out on Long Island fourteen forty am every Saturday morning at ten am. That's fourteen forty am WNYG Saturdays at ten am. If you want to go to the bus trip to Halloween, have it with us. Give me a call at five one, six, five, eight, seven, two eight six one. We're gonna return next week and talk more wrestling with you at the Pro Wrestling Spotlight.
Until then, it's John Rezzie talk to you next week.
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In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's early history.
Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they did or didn't work out.
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