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deal and hopefully you'll stick around. Beyond that for nine dollars and ninety nine cents. All right, now, let's get back to today's podcast. Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wig Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic, where Wade Keller interviews one of pro Wrestling's newsmakers ten years ago. This week, Hardcore Bob Holly joined me for over
an hour and a half. Bob Holly continues to be near the top of my list of surprise excellent interview subjects from my series of interviews over the years
on podcasts and Torch Talks for the Newsletter. In this episode, which live streamed on January twenty fourth, twenty fourteen, he has a passionate reaction to Daniel Bryant's port push, also insight into his Royal Rumble match against brock Lessner ten years prior, thoughts on Batista as a rookie, reaction to the date of hardcore style wrestling, and much more, including live callers and email questions.
Bob Holly worth listening to start to finish anytime you see him show up here on our Interview Classic feed, and it is today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast Interview Classic for Saturday, January twenty seventh, twenty twenty four. Welcome
to the p W Torch Live Cast. I am wad Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty seven and also pwtorch dot Com since nineteen ninety nine, also PW Torch app bailable on iPhone, Android and other devices since two thousand and eight, and host of this PW Torch Live Cast, which is on five days a week, and I host on Tuesdays and Fridays, and we've been on the air at blog Talk Radio since late two thousand and nine. In fact, we'll have as six show instead
of five. We'll have six shows next week because we begin on Sunday with a post Royal Rumble edition of the PW Torch Live Cast starting at eleven thirty Eastern, about a half hour after the Royal Rumble, and so we welcome you to join James Caldwell hosting that show with your phone calls and thoughts. The PW Torch Live Cast every day is brought to you by audible dot com, a leading provider of spoken audio, information and entertainment. Listen to audiobooks
whenever and wherever you want. Get a free book when you sign up for a free trial at audibletrial dot com Slash Pro Wrestling Torch again a free audiobook just for signing up at audio excuse me at audibletrial dot com Slash Pro Wrestling Torch. It is Friday, January twenty fourth, twenty fourteen, and we welcome a returning guest for Interview Friday today, one of our favorite guests from last year, Hardcore Bob Holly. Bob, welcome back to the show.
Thank you way, thank you for having me again. I appreciate it. It is great having you on. There is so much to talk about. We are forty eight hours away from uh just over forty eight hours away from the Royal Rumble pregame festivities beginning, and uh I got so much to talk to you about. We're going to open up the phone lines to callers. Also. The numbers here are six four, six, seven to one nine A two eight. Again that is six four, six, seven, one
nine A two eight. I want to remind people too, you can call that phone number and not participate in the show and just eavesdrop. If you've got Bluetooth on your cell phone during rush hour traffic. Just call up the line and as long as you don't push one on your phone to say you want to participate in the show, you can actually listen on your phone.
It's kind of a cool gimmick. Not everybody knows about that. Otherwise, you can always find us live at pw torchlivecast dot com, or you can find our archives at pw torchlivecast dot com in case you miss a show, and that also has links on that page to subscribe in iTunes and other podcast apps and websites. Bob, you uh, you've got uh, you've got some thoughts on what's going on with Daniel Brian. We taught we corresponded before
the show about that. I want to kick off the show by talking about something that we've been talking about since SummerSlam, which is this really special moment where Daniel Bryan gave John Cena a running high knee and pinned at the top
star in WWE one two three. The crowd goes bananas and for about two to three minutes, all was right in the world, and then Triple As gives the Pettigree turns heel, Randy Orton comes out catches the money in the bank, and then month after month after month, Daniel Bridan screwed out of a title, and then Big Show uses a lawyer to basically steal away WHI
should have been Daniel Bryan's title rematch that he deserves. He screwed out of the previous three or four, but Big Show supposedly has a babyface, hires a lawyer and gets the title shot. People don't really like it by rates not good. And then Danny Brian joins a white family and then he breaks up a couple of weeks later, and now he's facing Bray White upside at the Royal Rumble. That is the summary of Daniel Bryan's career in the last
well, however long it's been since SummerSlam. What are your thoughts on what's been going on with Daniel Bryan's Oh man, you know what, I really don't know where to begin because I just, honestly and this is just my opinion, and I hope people just understand it's just my opinion. You know, Hunter made the comment about he doesn't believe that, you know, Daniel Bryant should be world champion because he's number one, he's too small, and he looks like a troll. First of all, he doesn't look like a
troll. Number one. I mean, he's over more than anybody I've seen come along, you know, almost send Steve Austin or you know, even John Cena, and this is their guy, and you know, and I just think Hunter can't stand it because the guy's over more than him and he's nowhere near the stature that Hunter is. You know, he's organic, and he's pretty much self made, you know, with I mean with ww's help in a sense, you know, because you've got to have their help.
But he pretty much, to me, pretty much did it on his own, got over on his own, like nobody has ever gotten over on their own. And I just truly believe that Hunter, you know, because Hunter makes a lot of decisions now and I just don't think Hunter thinks this is
the face of the company when obviously it is. And I just I just I don't think because Hunter bases a lot of his decisions on personal feelings and that's not the way it should because we've talked about that before, and you know, and it's obvious when you see the crowd chan yes, the whole you know, you have twenty thousand people chan yes every damn night. That should tell you something. So I just I believe that, you know,
it's his time. And I think they're starting to realize now that even though they've tried to suppress him getting over as much as he's getting over now, and they tried to make him to where it does he doesn't mean as much as he did before and it backfired on him. So now I think they're trying to they're rethinking this whole thing with him, and I'm hoping, you know, I'm hoping that he gets well, he's not gonna be in the Royal rumbo am I correct, he's having a max with Bray Wyatt. Is
that is that what's going on? They've announced twenty wrestlers for the Rumble, and there's thirty in the match, and they haven't said if somebody's not in the Rumble. They've simply only announced twenty, or maybe they've added a couple, but there's open spots, so there is some speculation that he might be
added. But if they add him without advertising him, I think that's almost worse than not including him, because he's so popular, you would want to give Dan O'Brien fans a reason to order the Rumble, not just to see him beat up Bray Wyatt, but the fact that he might have a chance
to meet event WrestleMania by winning the Rumble. So my hunches he's not in the Rumble, but I don't feel like I note that Jason Powell wrote a blog at Progressing dot net and we talked about it on the live cast on Tuesday where he thinks Danny brien will be in the Rubble and will win and people should not give a pope on that. But I'm not giving up hope,
but I'm skeptical. Yeah, well, you know what, even if he isn't in the Rumble and just has a match with very White, it doesn't mean that he may not main event WrestleMania, because they've done in the past. The winner of the Royal Rumble, you know, has has not in the past gone on to headline WrestleMania, you know, because somewhere in between Royal Rumble and WrestleMania, you know, storylines have change to where they put somebody else in that spot. And I'm hoping, you know, if
Daniel, if Daniel Bryant in the Royal Rumble. I want him to win because he deserves it. He's worked his ass off, he he deserves to be world champion, and the crowd dictate, you know, tells you that. And number two, you know, I think it would be great for him to become world Champion in WrestleMania because he I think he would be a
good ambassador for that company. I really really do. And and I'm hoping that if by some reason he's not in the Rumble and he doesn't win it, that they do something with him in between to where he does end up with a shot at the title at WrestleMania, because I mean, they could change storylines, you know, between Rumble and WrestleMania to where Daniel Bryant will get a shot. And I hope that's what they do, because they've done
that stuff like that before. Yes, I want to. By the way, if you're just joining us hardcore, Bob Holly is our guest, a fifteen year WWF and WWE veteran wrestler from the mid nineties to the end of the two thousands. You left in two thousand and nine, right, Bob? Is that right? Yes? Yes, I sure it is. But about fifteen years in WWF and also an author of an excellent autobiography talking about his journey beat, his life before wrestling and then getting into wrestling, and
then getting to WWUF. It comes with the highest recommendation of me. And I've read a lot of wrestling books over the years, and Bob Holly's is one of the best overall. And I think it's an elite company when it comes to talking about life behind the scenes in the WWF during that nineties through early two thousands era from a perspective, and this is what I mean. Not only is it a good book on its own merits, but what really jumps out is Bob's not writing a book that's going to be edited or read
by Vincick Mann. Bob's not writing a book where he's worried about Vinci Mann firing him or withholding something in the future from him. And yeah, any book published by WWWE, no matter how honest Vincent Mann tells everyone to be, there's that apprehension. And I think Bob was really fair, but I think he said things he might not have felt comfortable writing if he were still working for WWF. It's human nature might have gotten in the way. So
it's just there's some great stories, great insight. Bruce Mitchell does not recommend books slightly, and he was on the first time, Bob, you were on the show. He was co hosting with me and gave it the highest recommendation, and he actually hounded me about reading the book because I hadn't. I didn't read it when it first came out, and Bruce did, and when I read it, I totally agreed. So I want to give a
big endorsement to your book, Bob. We talked at the length about it when you were first on the show, but it's called The Hardcore Truth, and it is available in bookstores and certainly through online retailers. I can't thank you enough for doing that way, because that that truly means a lot, because I look up to you in the wrestling world, you know, as a journalists and things like that, and that that means a lot. Your endorsement coming from you like that, that that means a lot. I can't
thank you enough, and I really appreciate it. Well, well, you're welcome, and I won't I won't push it that hard if it weren't true, even though you're nice enough to be on the show. I do want to shift for just one minute to talk about our sponsor of the show one more time, and that is Audible dot com. Uh. The p WW You Torch Lovecast is sponsored by Audible, which is a leading provider of spoken
audio information and entertainment. And you can listen to audiobooks whenever and wherever you want, and you can get a free book when you sign up for a free trial at audibletrial dot com. Slash Pro Wrestling Torch Bob Holly's book is not available at audible dot com. Maybe we need to try to change that, but many other wrestling books are and so if you are looking to listen to Steve Stonecold Steve Boston's autobiography from ten years ago, I also recommend that
book. I think it's a great book from Steve Boston. Our Hardcore History by Scott Williams. Speaking of hardcore, Holly, you can read about the history of hardcore wrestling and especially ecw by an author I also respect Scott Williams. The Squared Circle, Life, Death and Pro Wrestling by David Schumaker. You might know him from grant Land dot com. That book is a new
book and that is vailable on Audible. Also Wrestling with the Devil by Lex Luger, a recent autobiography, Hollywood Hokog and Dusty Rhodes, Mick Foley, many other wrestling books available at Audible. But if you're in the mood to get away from wrestling for a few minutes, you can escape into a Stephen King novel, John Grisham, Tom Clancy, Dean Kuns, George Carlin, heck, even Bossypants by Tina Fey or Malcolm Gladwell tipping, point outliers and
blink. If you want to quit smoking, I recommend not because I'm an ex smoker, so don't be mad at me. But I know a lot of people who smoke, a lot of friends and family who smoked and quit after reading or listening to this book. And it's called The Easy Way to Quit Smoking by Alan Carr And on this show, because people bring it up, they'll say, Wade, what was that book again? What was that
book again? I can list eight people I know who quit smoking immediately after reading this book and did not go back and did not have trouble doing it. It is sort of magical, and I have been fascinated by it because these friends of mine just they all shared the stories about it, and so I've always remembered it. That's called The Easy Way to Quit Smoking by Alan Carr. If you are smoker and want to quit, you might consider that.
As you're a free audio book, but you can read about others, or you can listen to books on other sports NFL, NHL, et cetera. Check it out, go to audibletrial dot com. Slash Pro Wrestling torch. All right, we were done with our sponsors, Bob, and I want to get back to the dang of Bryan situation and something you talked about
or I want to draw in your experience. Was there any time in your fifteen years working for WWF that you saw somebody eyes up from out of nowhere, organically from fans, deciding we love this guy and we want to cheer wildly for him. And it wasn't preordained, It wasn't part of a plan. It wasn't because he had great music videos and beat all these top guys. Is there somebody who comes closest to comparing to Daniel Bryant in that regard?
I have not seen anybody, and I'll be honest, and you know what another thing toe I'll be honest because when I first saw him on TV, I really didn't think much about him, you know. I just I just thought, you know, there's a you know, just a plain looking guy. I mean he's got a beard and everything, and he's a great
athlete. I mean, he's unbelievable wrestler too, you know, and I just I really didn't think anything about it, and just you know, watching him from time to time here and there and just listening to the people and just watching him. I mean, he's believable as far as facials and his timing and you know, and it's just it's crazy, which is a good thing for him. How he got over without without that big shove like they give a lot of guys where they try to force them to get over,
and this guy just did it naturally. And I have never, honestly, I just I cannot say I've ever seen anybody get over like that without you
know, the big shove. And that's what doesn't that what makes it so frustrating seeing what happened the last uh you know, five six months in WWE, and it just feels like a blown opportunity because of uh In an idea that finsic mantriple h have that you have to look a certain way to be the face of the company, and I'm I'm curious about the dynamic with Batista coming back on Monday, and I'm I'm presuming the most likely scenario is Batista
winning the World Rumble because he's the only guy that they hyped on Raw that had a chance, right and and it seems like he'll win and face Randy Orton WrestleMania if Randy Orton wins. But they're, you know, the obvious. This thing isn't always what happens, and that's part of the fun of
watching WWE is until it happens. It hasn't happened. But I'm curious how fans react if they feel bob that Bautista has been brought in as a legacy star who's big and tall and fits the face of the company, dimensions that Vincent manager Blake to look for if they would have cheered Batista, but they resent not Bautista the person, although maybe they resent his tight jeans or his shirt or something because he's been made fun for that his kidney jeans, but
or telling people on Twitter, I think he parental advisory coming up here, but on Twitter the other day he told someone to suck his balls, which I'm not quite sure that's PG, but yeah, but no. But nevertheless, I wonder if Batista's going to have a harder time than even he deserves or he would have had otherwise, because fans are gonna look at Batista's taking a spot that they hoped and felt belong to Daniel Bryan. Hi, I'm you know what, I I don't know. I would guess that would be
how the fans would feel. But I just I think the reason they bring a lot of these guys in because they don't have enough star power for WrestleMania and they're trying to, you know, create something for WrestleMania that you know that the current roster, you know, they're trying. Of course, WrestleMania is a big show over the year, you know, so they do bring in a lot of people from the past, from the Attitude era, you
know. And I just I think that might have something to do with it, because maybe they're thinking that's gonna you know, sell more tickets or more pay per views Patisa versus Randy Orton, And I really don't think that will I think Daniel Brian versus Randy Orton again, will you know, and if if it's like John Cena and Randy Orton for the umpteenth millions time, I really don't think people are in tune to that as much as they would be
to Daniel Brian and Randy Orton. I would even take a rematch from SummerSlam Daniel Bryan and John Cena. Yeah, exactly, That's what I was saying. I just I think people would tune in and buy the pay per view to see that and hopefully Daniel will get to go over because and he should, he really should. And it's like I said, and I just I think it's Hunter, Hunter's way of you know, this guy shouldn't be the face of the company. He's not your typical big guy that stands out,
you know. And I just and I think it goes against everything Hunter believes. But it's almost the people are dictating this is what needs to happen, you know. But as far as Batista, I just don't think that's gonna you know, they're gonna bring back probably your your fan from back in the day when Batista was around and stuff like that, because he's got a lot of following you know, but I just don't think it would be as big if it was Daniel Bryan. I really don't. In twenty twelve, NXT
transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch va Pea podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's early history. Joined Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they did or didn't work out exclusively for
PW Torch VIP members. The return of Matista. It popped a big rating on Monday Night, or it seemed to, but Daniel Brian was turned baby face. Essentially, we broke away from the Wive family the week before SmackDown's rating was up, Batista wasn't on SmackDown and SmackDown's rating was up. Batista was on Raw in the first hour and the first hour of Raw rating was up, but Daniel Bryan was also in the first quarter hour of Raw and
bled over into the second quarter hour. I'm really curious if, and I don't know if we'll ever know for sure if the big pop and the rating for raw averaging a three point five, which was phenomenal earlier this week, if we could ever figure out if that had more to do with fans being so excited that their Daniel Brian was back and they congregated on Monday, and
if they were happy with Daniel Brian's push and what he said. If they stick around, it's going to be hard to differentiate between the two of them in terms of you know, who drew that rating. I don't know how Vince will do it. You keep saying Triple H. I'm wondering, Bob, how do you think if Triple H was not in the equation? Do you think Vince McMahon, from your experience working with him and around him, would have been more open to Daniel Bryan being pushed more consistently and sincerely with
what the fans wanted. Or do you think Hunter is really almost overriding what Vince's instincs would be in this case. Hunter's got a lot of input, you know, when it comes to vance. I mean, he Vince listens to him. And again, Hunter's very smart, Trug, I mean, he is very intelligent. He's got a great mind for the business, but you know, if he I think what gets in the way is the personal
feeling thing. But you know, like Vince, I mean, Vince made Ray mysterial world champion, and look how and Ray was half the size of Daniel. You know, you've had small people as a world champion before, you know, And I just I just think, you know, with Hunter in the position that he's in, he has a major, major influence on
the decisions that are carried out. And I just you know, and because I keep going back to what he said about Daniel Bryant, you know, and he said, this guy is not the face of the company, he's not world champion material, and I and I think he's wrong. I really do. And I you know, no disrespect to Hunter by no means, but the people can tell you that, you know. And let's go back to the rating thing, because I think a lot of I think a lot
of that was curiosity. You know, what what's Dave going to do when he comes back? Because that that's what it was for me. I was curious to see. It's not that you know, hey, I want to tune in to see Dave beseised to come back. I tuned in because I wanted to see what he was going to do. Yeah, and I think I think that's where a lot of that rating might have came in. But I also think, you know, a lot of it's because of Daniel Bryant,
you know. So it's it's like you said, it's hard to differentiate and we'll never know, but you know, and I tuned in because I was just curious and that's the only reason I tuned in to see what was going to happen. Let's go to the film banks, and I want to let people know they can call if they want to get in line on the phone banks to talk to hardcore bob Olli. The number is six four six
seven one nine A two eight. I'm Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter and pw torch dot com and also MMA toorch dot com. If you're a UFC fan, be sure to check out our sister publication, our sister website, mmatorch dot com, and we also have an app. Just search MMA Torch in the Google play Store, the Apple App Store, Amazon Kindle Fire Store and enter MMA Torch and downloader app. It's
free and we'll keep you up to date with great daily updates. We cover all the top news stories, have a great staff of analysts and contributors that will help you keep up on what's going on in USC and all other MMA groups like Bellatour. All right, let's go to our first phone call. This is a VIP member the VIP Express Line Airy code nine to five to two. This is Brian from Minnesota. Minneapolis. Brian, welcome back to
the show. Thank you, Wade, and hello Bob. A spark plug and I mean that pun intendantly of the WWF during the nineties, you and Owen Hart were among my favorites to watch who always gave me great matches. So thank you Bob. Thanks, oh well, thank you very much. Ryan, Thank you very very much. I appreciate that I was going to ask you just one question, and that's in regards to what you guys have Meit disgusting and like for example, Randy Orton has the two strikes and several
things he has not done right. And Dave Batista was protected when he came out, nothing was said ill about him. He was only pushed even though he's not a super megastar, but someone like the Rock comes in and he gets a couple of gigs. I was curious about some ways and how the physic man and the family of the mcmnons, as always the executive protect certain wrestlers, and why they do it, for example, like a Randy Orton, right I you know, I just think it all boils down to money,
you know. It just that's what it boils down to. And and you know, Randy is a huge, huge money maker for the company. So a lot of you know, a lot of things are thrown to the wayside, and you know they just turn and look the other way when you know, things go on. So you know, it's it's it's it's really
political when it comes to that stuff. And it's just it boils down to you know, because Randy makes a ton a ton of money for that company, you know, and Vince isn't gonna you know, reprimand somebody for you know, and and try to discipline somebody and send him home or whatever for you know, their actions, especially when they make a lot of money, and right now, when that person's the face of the company, you know, So it just boils down to a lot of political you know stuff here
and there. Brian anything else, I just I just want to hear about the mud in WWE. Thank you so much, Bob and your books amazing. Thanks again, Thank you, Brian, thank you. Have a good night. Excellent Bob. You were around during Randy Orton's rookie span in WWF WWE. Did you think he had everything it took athletically, appearance, wise,
promos, work, ethic, attitude, professionalism. Did he look like somebody who was going to be the total package and be the face of the company or did you see that there might be a couple of things that keep him from being that premier money player that had John Cena, Steve Austin Rockho Cogan types have become. No, I've always seen it in Randy, you
know, because he's he's you know, spot on with his matches. Is all his matches are pretty pretty darn good, and his facial expressions and how he takes time to you know, deliver his lines and stuff like that. You know, at first when they come in, Yeah, they're nervous, so you may not see something right away because a lot of their stuff is
rushed because they're so nervous, and that's to be expected. But it's you know, the weeks went on. Is because I worked with him a lot when he first came in, and you know, within a few weeks I really started seeing, Hey, this guy could possibly be, you know, one of the top guys. And because I worked with him, so I know in the ring, I know how he feels, I know how he works. He's there for everything, and you know, and he can get
rough. You get rough with him, he can get rough right back, and he you know, and he can bring it and he can deliver. You know, he delivers when he has to deliver. And just watching him the other night, I told my wife, I said, you know, and he is really good at facial expressions and timing. I said, he he knows, he knows, you know, what to do. He knows what it takes to be where he's at. And you know, I've always
believed that one day he would be on top. And that's just you know, from observing and being around him and working with him, and you know, and the only thing that could have held him back was you know, he his attitude here and there, and you know, he got in trouble a few times along the road and stuff like that. But hopefully he's over all that and but I mean I always knew that he could become something, you know, because he he did have. He had what it took,
and you know it's obvious. The same question about Batista. You're around for the entirety of Dave Batista's early career in WWF, wwe I cauld think WWF because you were around with WWF. The same thing about him, like, did did you think that he he was a total package to still a term from Lex Winter. I didn't see it. I did not see it in him, yea, And I'll tell you why. And this is just my
opinion, okay. I mean everybody's got different opinion, different opinions on everyone, you know, and I just I because he's not He's not that crisp worker like you see in Randy Orton or you know, or Punter or Shawn Michaels or Undertaker. He's just he's you know, he's your typical bodybuilder. He's blocking, he's not good at promos, and who am I wanted to talk? But I mean I can give my opinion because I know I suck at promos, so I can I can say, you know, he's not
that good at promos, and he still isn't to this day. And I just never saw it in him. But when he was with Evolution, him and Hunter became really close friends, really tight, you know. So that goes a long way, you know, And and that to tell you why he's where he is, you know, I really because when he let me tell you some when he first came to wrestling, when he was in Louisville, because I was when I first met him, you know, after I
had had next surgery. I was out for thirteen months and they sent me to Louisville to get the ring Russ knocked off and I was there for three or four weeks. Well, Dave was there, and he to me, he was just green is the grass outside? Well not now because it's snow, but anyway, he just he didn't have what it took. And you know, he's he's a bodybuilder and see and Hunter's a bodybuilder. So I think that's how Hunter took to him. And you know Vince also, you
know, he Vince is a freak for bodybuilders. Guys are big guys, you know, so and I think that's what they saw in him, and him and Hunter became really tight and then off to the races as he went, and I truly believe that's why he's at where he is today because he
was good such good friends with Hunter, you know. And I just I've never been impressed with his matches, you know, and if if you know, and I that's just my opinion, and you know, and I think it's a fair assessment because I you know, I think I'm I'll tell you, I'll call it like I see it, and you know, and I've and I'm you know, you know me, I've told you guys that can work and guys that can't work. And I've always thought Dave really wasn't one
of those kind of guys, you know. And he's always had had to have somebody lead him. And the good matches that he has had, if you think about the good matches, he's always had somebody leading him, you know. So but if you just he's just he just doesn't move smoothly in the ring. And I've never seen anything in him, I really haven't. I mean, he looks great, You've got a great build, but that's
not what wrestling's all about anymore anymore. Got our people to you towards VIP sale going on right now a new year, so we don't normally do this. Get six dollars off of VIP membership right now with coupon code New Year twenty twenty four. That's New Year twenty twenty four. Take six dollars off our normal nine dollars ninety nine cent monthly rate that gives you one month the VIP membership for three dollars and ninety nine cents. Act now. It's a
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He seemed to get a push. I don't know, I want to say prematurely, but the window for his push to really increase came when brock Lesnard decided to leave WWE and first strut out for the Vikings and then obviously went to USC and there was kind of the spot open, and they looked for somebody who looked like they were a main eventor as opposed to you know, And it's not that they didn't give jabl obviously a good chance and Eddie Guerrero
good push, and it wasn't like other people didn't have chances. But Batista really got accelerated when brock Lesnar left and you were around for that, was there some jealousy or some eyebrow raising that, Wow, is Dave really ready to carry that level of matches and promos that because he's you know, with all the respect of Batista, and I think he has improved over time, and I think he's a natural on facial expressions, like I think he has
some intangibles that that are something that not everybody has, and so he's not just an empty vessel. But I do think that he wouldn't have necessarily been everybody's choice of being the right guy to push at that time. So take us back to that time in the locker room, because I'm sure some guys who have been around longer had their own opinions thought, is Dave really the
right choice? You know? The thing is when somebody comes in and they don't have it experienced, you know, and they've never they've never been up and down the road and made five ten here and there, like a lot of the other guys that have put their time in. You know, sure that's going to come up. You know it's going to be like, Okay, you know I can outwork this guy. I looked almost as good as
him. You know, I'm better at promos than him. You know, a lot of guys think that way, but it's just not the way it is. It's the right place at the right time. And another thing I was going to say is when Dave was in Louisville when I first met him, he really wasn't a wrestling fan. You know, he just he saw it and he wanted to try it. And you know, he's never really been a wrestling fan. I mean he is now now that he's been in
it. But you know a lot of these guys they see it on TV and it's like, oh, I think I want to try that, and that's what they end up doing. And you know, Dave, it was the right place at the right time for him, because I promise you you know, when we're in Louisville and we all you know, because me and him and Kevin Fertige and a couple other guys. We would go out to lunch and stuff like debt or to dinner afterwards or whatever. And I just
I liked a great guy, super super nice, nice guy. I have all the respect in the world for him, you know, very polite, and I just never I was like, I just don't see anything great build, big guy, you know, but those guys are a dime a dozen, you know, and I just never saw anything in him. But getting back to your question, you know, yeah, there's a lot of that that goes on in the locker room. You know. It's like, okay, why not me? Well, you know, what is it about me
that you know? And they choose him over me, And it's just a lot of its right time, right place. And and also it is a political decision. You know, politics play a big part in it. And that's something that I just couldn't do, play the political game, because I'll be damned if I was going to be up Hunter's ass every day or hang out with those guys and just to get further in the company, you know,
And that's just something I chose not to do. I just, you know, I wanted my talent to dictate how I how far I went. But you know, I just think a lot of it is political and right place, right time. Also, well, well if people want to read more of that type of insight and forthright opinions and observations from his time in the trenches for fifteen years. Again, the book is a hardcore truth. Check it out, buy it online, have it delivered to our mailbox soon.
Buy it as an ebook on your Kindle or Nook or Sony's what is Sony's Reader calls whatever, there's all kinds of readers out there. You can have it in two minutes if you do it that way. Let's go back to the phone lines. I got lots of follow up questions, but I want to get to callers too, So let's go to our next VIP Express caller. This is Will from the New Jersey area. Will, thanks for holding. Please confirm your name and where you're from. Will it is this
you? All right? Well, let's go eight five six? Is it's a different caller from the New Jersey area. Hello? Hello, yep, yeah, this is Will from Jersey. Oh good, well, sorry, we didn't mean to wake up my question on it. I guess I just don't get it. I understand if the fans are gonna crazy with Daniel Bryan and they're showing you that, you know what I mean, if they'll consistently
watch if he's on, how can he not push him? Like? What can you do not watch when you know what I mean, when you put if you don't want to see or on for them to realize it, Like, I don't you know what I mean. I can't understand how they can say he's right and wrong when we're the ones watching the product. So we should be dictating who is, you know, anything who's getting a pushed.
They don't have to put him out there for sponsorship like Sina, but for who we want to see on TV rap When you would think that he would you know, listen to what's going on in the live ARFE and the people who are paying. Oh yeah, I agree with you, and that's the
way it should be, but unfortunately it's not in some cases. I mean, yeah, they put Daniel Broy. They know they've got to put Daniel Bryan on every week in some capacity, in some role, you know, whether it be top guy, mid card, because they bump him down I guess to mid card now and so you know, and ratings say a lot about somebody when when they're on TV, and it's I think it's gotten to the point now and I think the fans have expressed their opinion, you know,
for Daniel Bryan to be back on top, and you know, and and plus you can see in the arenas the people going crazy for him, and I think it's gotten to the point now it's like, okay, they they're almost like backed into a corner. We've got to do something more with this guy. We got to put him back in the role that he played before. So I think that's the direction. I'm hoping they do the right thing, you know, and make the fans happy, because that's what it's
all about, making the fans happy. And I hope they do the right thing and put him back in that spot, you know. And and but I agree with you, you know, it should be up to the fans, Like you said, well, appreciate the call. Let's stop, let's go to one. Let's go to another phone call here and we'll go to Eric code U six nine six. I think we're holding. Please state your name and where you're from. Oh, this is Lewis again from New Jersey. Hey, Lewis, thanks for Colin. What do you got for Bob
Holly today? Well, first of all, you're lucky. You just got three new Jersey people in a row. That's great. Hey, there's nothing more lucky. Hey Lewis, what's going on? Where you're at? Is showing where you're at? Yes, actually I'm driving or out on the snow, so I'm risking my life to talk to you. You know. Oh I appreciate that. Well, thank you. And the ticket, yeah, absolutely absolutely, yep, I got the phone right to my ear. But hey, I'm in the military, so you know I usually just flashed the
car. So well, hell, thank you for your service. Then, thank you very very very much. Thank you for your support. Definitely. So right now, that's always just like most people from Jersey because he's got got another guy named Kyland that does the same thing. I got three things les than four months. The quickest thing is probably like, I know you've done this about a million signs, but can you clear up what the finish
was supposed to be? I think it was WrestleMania two sixteenth, where you know, like you guys all look like chickens with your heads got off like when Yeah, some of the one with Crash, it looked like where a timer was supposedly messed up. Talk about that pop and and give a little
background for people who don't know what what Lewis is talking about. Yeah, it was a hardcore match where there was several of us in it, and there was a clock on the Titan Tron and it was counting down because we had like fifteen minutes a fifteen minute time limit, and Crash was supposed to win. Well, it didn't work out because when Tim White when I made the cover on Crash, I blurred TAZ. I believe it was one of those two. Anyway, they counted as the timer went that to what you
know, three to two one. Timmy White was counting we got this and he had the buzzer didn't go off and he had to count to three and they the timer was messed up. It wasn't synchronized with in the TV truck with the timer on the Titan Tron, and so that's where everything got messed up because it was supposed to be one two, the buzzer goes off and
Crash retains the hardcore title. So that's what was actually how it was supposed to go down, but the timer was off, and you know because Timmy White had the earpiece in his ear and they were counting down to him as he was counting one, two, and then the buzzer goes off and he had to hit three because he would have looked stupid if you'd have just stopped, you know, right away. So he had to count to three and the buzzer didn't go off, you know, so until after the fact.
But that was that was the original plan. You know. The timer was supposed to go off as tim White was counting before his hand hit three, and Crash was supposed to retain the the Hardcore title. Instead, I ended up with it all right. You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out my reports that are updated live
throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, and it will also analyze key segments and give my random thoughts quips on what I'm watching as it airs, So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot
com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I cover those live at pw torch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you can find other TV reports from other contributors to pw torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV and pay per views written reports. Thanks for clearing that out, and the fancy thing is quick quickly? Do you have any click stories since
you talked about triple ation? You talked about politics where you know back when you were doing it because I was like a little kid, but I still remember as clear as day with the Thurman spark plug gimmicking the race car driver. Give me, did you have any click stories where it directly affected you? Oh? Yeah, yeah. If I'll tell you what, if you read my book, I talk all about it in there. There's a good story in there. Scott Hole, what's that? Uh? What was that?
Was that? And? I thought you were just gonna leave it at a plug? But like, is there is there one that stands out above the rest? Uh? That's not in your book. No, it was pretty much that only one because I nipped it in the butt and they never messed with me again. Pretty much. Will you gotta buy the book for that one? Right? But if you listen to and I encourage you too, if to listen to the previous times Bob's been on the show in our
archives, and if you're a VIP memver, it's real easy. Just click got the people, do you torch? Live cast interviews on the drop menu on the VIP website and uh, and then just do a search for Bob Holly's name and that'll pop up. It's real easy to listen to our archives. And I'm not sure how much you went into it earlier, Bob on our previous previous shows, but I know, either on the live cast or the VIP exclusive after shows, we certainly certainly got into that kind of politics
more so. Well, we're not trying to do punt punt too far. But you got three answers, so let's let's go to the third one and we'll let people who read the book with that answer, I got you. But also last thing, the ball for all. I'm pretty sure you talked about this too, but like you know, doctor deaf Steve Williams. Everybody knew that that was supposed like, I mean, Jim Moss wanted him to be the guy that won the thing. So I want to know how much of it was a shoot and how much of it worth? I mean,
how were you guys guided in any way? Like were you guys kind of like scared the death, Like oh damn, if I actually knocked this guy out or if I kicked this guy's out, now it was there. Well, hold Lewis, hold on, Bob, before you answer, I just want to say, this is my this and there are many candidates, but this might have been my favorite part of the book. Was your chapter about the brawl for all. It was so in depth and I learned a lot from it. I talked to people about it for years and got a lot
of details. But I'm just telling people and and Lewis asked some good questions it. Even if you don't read books, read Bob's book, because this is the kind of thing that is just so fascinating when you got to sit down and go into such detail on it. But feel free, obviously, Bob, I just want to insert that in there because that was my favorite part of the book. Yeah, yeah, will the whole brawl for all
it was a shoot. Every bit of it was one hundred percent shoot because Jim Ross just knew, without a shadow of a doubt Steve Williams, bless his heart, was going to come in and just run through everybody. And as you know the ending of that story, how that went. And uh yeah, no, nobody told us, hey, you know better not knock anybody out, you better, you know, you better lay down for this guy or no, none of that. It was a straight one hundred percent
shoot. So I would I would have been Bobby. I would have been curious to see Doc against butter Bean, because I don't think Doc would have
stood up with Butterbean like Bart tried to do. And so I wonder if if Doc got in wrestling kind of shape, you know, worked on the takedown, if he would have been able to do what a lot of USC guys with with wrestling bases are able to do against stand up guys, especially a stand up guy who probably doesn't have a great takedown defense, and Butterbean that I think probably would have been a little more of a fight than the bark butter well, well see, we'll see way they they had already agreed
going into WrestleMania that it was just going to be stand up only there was going to be no taken down. Butterbean would not agree to takedowns or anything. Oh man, okay, yeah, So so that right there, and that's I think I failed mentioned that in my book, But that right there, Butterbean would have had a chance if if Mike Bart would have been able to shoot in on him, I think that would have lasted a little bit longer. But the thing is, though, Butterbean's not no idiot. You
know, he didn't get where he was. But by being dumb, I mean he Bart was playing his game and he knew it, and Butterbean knew not to play you know, somebody else's game, and and and that's that's the whole thing in a nutshell right there, because Bart agreed with Butterbean that there would be no takedowns and just be straight up boxing. And sure enough, you know, look what happened to Bart by playing somebody else's game.
You just don't do that. But I agree it, butter they would have never happened anyway if Butterbean was Butterbean would have never agreed to take agreed to doing takedowns because that's just not his thing. You know, I think if he took somebody down, he'd have a hard time getting back up. You know, he reminds me of a turtle. If he was on his back,
you wouldn't able to get that. Uh, you know, yeah, you know, that's that's just you know, they brought Butterbean in for that one deal there, and it wasn't gonna be wrestling a straight boxing and you know, and and that was Bart's big mistake right there, was agreeing to try to try to be a boxer. Because they sent Bart off for I think six or eight weeks to train up in New York and to learn boxing
techniques, and it's just not gonna happen in that short time. Let's, uh, let's go back to the phone lines and see what some other callers have to say. Thanks Louis for your call. Good questions, two one nine, you're up. Now Please state your name and where you're from. Hi, this is Mike from Indiana. Hey Mike, what do you do about today? Hey guys, I'm I'm I'm. I read your book. I enjoyed it very much. Gave him the level of respect for you after
reading how you dealt on the asshole backstage? Well, not everyone's like that, but anyway, what's your question? Some of them were yeah, okay, anyway, two questions for you. Sure. For one, you're talking about the Daniel Briant situation earlier and back in nineteen ninety four. There seemed
like they're a similar situation with Brett Hart and Mike Slugger. Sugar was being shot down everybody's throat, he was being hyped, and that Brett Hart he was kind of more of the underdog, and he seemed to get the similar crowd reaction that Daniel Brian's getting now, right, What was the feeling backstage
back then? Oh gosh, it's no Brett Hart. Yeah, back see, back back then, you know, because I was just I was new to the company, and I just you know, I really wasn't aware of anything like that back then, and you know, because I was trying to get my feet wet as it is, you know, so I was just you know, I was just kind of like, you know, not really paying attention to all that kind of stuff going on on, you know, the little games backstage and everything, you know, because I was trying to
get to know everybody. And but you know, I think when they try to shove somebody, you know, shoved talent down the people's throat, I think a lot of people resent start resenting that person, you know, and and I think that's what helps like got help get Bread over too, you know, in a sense. But I mean Brett got over, you know, because Brett's good and uh, but I think it backfires on him when they do try to shove somebody down, you know, the people's throat.
And it's like Daniel Bryant, they never shoved him down the people's throat. He just all of a sudden, here's this guy. Thats what it takes, and just out of nowhere. And you know, they really weren't, you know, giving him that big shove. And I think that's what helped
get him over so much, you know. And but it's it's you know, like I said, back then, I really wasn't paying a lot of attention to what was going on because you know, I was new and everything, and I'm just trying to get to know everybody and see how the games are played, you know. So but thank you watching questions and so much of the product. Back then, I I bred was popular and he was the right choice in Setlex Sluga for a lot of reasons. And I wrote
about that. Yeah, you member's kind of those back issues. Uh that said it was, Brett's popularity was nothing like the groundswell for for Danil Bryan today. Oh no, huh. I mean it's insane how those people go crazy over him. Yeah at heart, Yeah, that's just Dan. Yeah, no, no whatsoever. But you know, and the thing is, it's like, I'm for whoever can get over like they do, because you know what, if that guy's going to get over, guess what that means,
I'm going to make more money, you know. And that's the way how everybody tries it should look at it, you know, And and that's pretty much how I looked at it. You know. Yeah, I got, you know, my panties in a wad here and there because it's like, okay, when are they going to do something with me? Kind of like thing. But you know, I didn't focus so much on that. I've just focused at the you know, the the task at hand, and
I did what I had to do. But I was always four, if somebody can get over, whether they're brand new and they've got what it takes and they can get over and make me money. I'm all for it. And that's the way everybody should look at the whole Daniel Bryant situation. This guy is gonna make a lot of money for the talent, you know. And and I and I really think the boys in the back are really happy
for Daniel Bryan too in a sense because he's a great guy. I've never met him, I'd love to meet him, but just from his demeanor, watching him on TV and stuff like that, and seeing how he is on you know, other shows and stuff, I really believe he is a truly good person and this guy deserves to be where he's at. So but yeah,
need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts? Will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress Paradise at peterw georch VIP as we ask on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and shows from around the world, be it the US, Japan, Europe,
or Mexico. There's always a place for restlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye was there when shows where our guests will join me to talk about a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PW Torch VIP subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits
is available at pw Torch vip info dot com. And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site. See you in the Paradise. Am I getting the upra? Bob? Oh? Yeah? One more question? They announced a couple of weeks ago at the Ultimate Warrior it will be inducted into the Hall of Fame this year. Bob, you're on in nineteen ninety six during his last run. But was he as difficult
to deal with it in as crazy as everybody says he is? You know, I just I you're dealing with him. Yeah. The first time I met him was in la It was in Anaheim at the Arrow Hitpond there in Anaheim, and that was the first time I ever met him, and I mean he was in the same dressing room as everybody, and he just, you know, he's very cordial. But I just didn't get the feeling that you know, he didn't he really didn't know anybody there, you know.
But I've just I don't know about him being hard to deal with because I've never had to deal with him behind closed doors. I never was you know, I never had to work with him or anything. So I just I can't answer that question, you know. I just and you know, so as far as him, I'm feeling hard to deal with, that's you know, so I just can't answer that. I mean, he was nice to me, don't you know. Don't get me wrong, he was very nice
to me when I met him. And you know, like I said, whenever I'd come in the arena and come into the locker room, he always spoke, you know, so he was always nice to me, you know. So I never had a problem with him. So and but other people have said that, you know, he's a you know, prick and all this stuff that I don't know because I never saw it. So, you know, I you know, I can't answer that one fair enough. Mike
appreciate your call very much. We'll take one more call here on the live cast, and then we'll move to the VIP after show with our time left with Bob Holly. I don't forget pw torch dot com is your source for daily wrestling news and commentary right now. We have Fridays ask pw Torch staff article up including what happens if WWE network is a failure? Is wwwe's Performance
Center good for the future of wrestling? Would will TNA benefit from ww be kind of shunning indie wrestlers and wanting to only have graduates of the performance center put on TV? And some comments from staff on Hogan, Bishop and Flair and whether they're running TNA was a failure. Also, big update on the physical Hall of Fame building, Where might it be and what is the update? Also, Ted Dibiassi's oldest son are following a police standoff. Debiasi addresses
that incident. Highlights of an in depth interview with cm punk. Will he resign with WWE? Maybe go to MMA? Does he have concerns about the network? Thought his thoughts on Batista, Lesnard, Daniel Bryan and more. There plus the full report on last night's TNA Impact, which by the way, did a nice rating, one of the best they've done on a long time, a one point two to one rating. It always happens, Bob, or almost always happens when Ro's ratings are up, Impact ratings go up.
It's a weird thing. But it just seems like there's sort of a wrestling season. And part of it could because it was older demographics that were up for Impact last night, and maybe it was staying in the main event that drew that, but still there. It does seem when wrestling does well,
everybody does kind of well. Has that kind of been your experience when you've been around, you know, fifteen years full time and time before that and after that on the indie scene, that when wrestling's hot, everybody kind of does well. Yeah, I really do. I truly believe that, you know, and you know, good for TNA as their rating came up.
But and I because I want to see everybody make it, you know, because competition is good, and you know, and T and A has got a lot of learning to do, and but I just I really I would love to see them really make it. I really would, because you
know, competition is good. You always been a big believer in competition is good and so and uh the thing and you mentioned the performance center too, and you know, I want to elaborate on that just for a second, if you don't mind, of course, Yeah, I really there's the pros
and cons about the performance center. And I think it's a good tool, I really do, you know, I think, but I just they I honestly think the only bad side to it is you almost put out cookie cutter, you know, characters almost in a sense, you know, I don't know, you know, it's kind of a cool thing. They really want
to They want to mold from start to finish and own their performers. And I think part, I mean part of it is is is Jerry Jared talk to me about this in the Torch Talk in the early nineties in prosing towards saying WWSS eventually is going to run into a problem if they become a monopoly, where are they going to get talent? Because right now they're living off of talent developed in the territories. And I think this is a smart way
to address that, but is it the best way to address it? And shunning the indie scene and not having that diversity of experience is something that really is going to kick in Bob and maybe five years when the only people around are people who only work for WWE, right, And I think that's a bad thing because if they're shunning see, I didn't know they were shunning the indie you know, circuits, because the indie circuits is where, you know,
you can get your name out there because there's a lot of popular people through the indie circuits, you know, and they have a following. And I think it's a good thing that if you can get performers from the indie circuits simply because number one, they have experienced working in front of crowd. You know, they've already perfected their craft, you know, and they've perfected it the hard way. And you know, because you can go out and
you can find those the diamond in the rough in the indie circuit. You just have to look for it because there's so much good talent out there. There is a ton of good talent in those indie circuits, you know, and they just they I think they're just they got their blinders on to just the guys from the performance center that they are working on and those are the like you said, they want to be able to own their performers, and that's how they're going to do it. And I think it's going to be
a bad thing. It's like you said, it's going to come back and haunt them, you know, when that's all there is is people from the Performance Center, you know, because I just really truly believe, you know, because it helped me before I got WWE, you know, running up and down the roads doing the indie scene, all these small towns, all these you know, driving for miles and miles. It's good, it's it's it's good experience, and I think everybody should have to go through that.
And with the Performance Center, you're just you know, you are, You've got everything, every tool you need. You know, you don't. Yeah, you have to work, but I don't think you have to work as hard as if you were out on your own, you know, running up and down the roads, trying to make a name for yourself, trying to get over you know that. I think, uh, you have manufactured talent
down at the Performance Center. And yeah, not everybody's like that. They're going to find, you know, good talent, you know, through the Performance Center. But I think it's it's just it's not a good idea to just focus on guys from there. I just don't think that's a good idea. Yeah, it's it's tough too, you know, if you're if you're triple ahs, you think, well, there's the right way to do it, and we want those we don't want to break bad habits and all that.
But they're just there's, there's so and it's it's a lot of it is I think symbolica what we talked about a lot on the show, which is Daniel Bryant. There are things that are unconventional that make pro wrestling more interesting when they are, like you said, Bob all cookie cutter, and I think WWE should embrace that more as a corporation, the quirkiness and the diversity that makes pro wrestling so fun. If if everybody is kind of in
the same mold with the same teachings, pro wrestling loses something. I mean, the first wrestling I watched, it was Mad Dog Mashan and Crusher, Jerry Blackwell and Jesse venturing Adrian Adonis, and you had verne Gania in stark contrast to the Crusher, and it was just it was Billy Robinson and Bruiser Brody. It was like there was such a diversity of characters when I became a fan, and that's part of what attracted me to it. Not everybody
looked like Jesse Ventura, the muscular six foot three guy. And I do worry. I do worry a little bit that that is one of the negative side effects of WWF being kind of control freaks about wanting to just groom these people from start to finish and fit a mold. The good news is people like Bray Wyatt are getting through who don't fit that conventional body type. But you know, he's not exactly a first generation wrestler, and there's some exceptions
made for those types of guys, right right. You know, like you're gonna find guys through the performance center that's gonna stand out every once in a while. It's inevitable, it's gonna happen, you know. But when they train there, you know, you have, like in the independent circuit, you know, you perfect your craft, you have a certain way you you go into your maneuvers and you know, and if it looks good, great. But I think what they do is when they take somebody to the performance
that I don't know. I'm just I'm just speculating because i've never been there. You know, I'm sure I'm gonna end up there one of these days. But I'm sure maybe they take them and say that you're starting over from right here, and this is how you're gonna do things. This is the way we want you to do it. And then and then and then that's how everybody ends up doing looking the same when they move up to raw or smack down, and you can tell that they've been at the performance center because
it's it's you know, everybody's taught the same way. A good example, One good example is if I've noticed whenever somebody goes for a false finish, they hook the leg and it's it's the guy that they're covering is on his back. And then when they hook the leg, the guy covering him, he's on his it's it's his back is on his chest. Yeah, and he's looking up the ceiling. I've noticed every single time somebody does a false
finish, they cover somebody like that. And I noticed that the pattern, and I'm like that, right there is a fine example of they're making people. They must be making guys cover people like that. You know, and so I'm just just a little example, and I'm thinking maybe that's the way they were taught down at the performance center, you know, And and everybody has to have their own unique way of doing things to stand out from somebody
else. You know. It's like when you go for a cover, you know, yeah, you can hook the leg and cover them, but you don't have to roll on your back to cover them. And it's like that and that it drives me crazy when I see that, because it's like everybody does it, and it's like, can somebody just cover somebody just to hook the leg and cover them normal? You know. And it's like, but
I guess that's how they want guys to do it. And I'm I'm and that's the point point being is you know everything you can tell when guys come from that performance Ernet' And I'm thinking, you know, if guys do get picked up from the independent circuit, you know, maybe they take them and just say, hey, you're you're psych you haven't even been wrestling. We're starting all over, you know. I guess that's what they do. I'm
not sure, but it just seems like that to me. Yeah, we do not normally do this, but we are kicking off the New Year twenty twenty four with a VIP sale. Go vip for a full month for three dollars in ninety nine cents. That is six dollars off our normal very reasonable rate. We're told of nine dollars in ninety nine cents per month. Pw torch dot com slash go VP. That's pwtorch dot com slash go VP and
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deal and hopefully you'll stick around beyond that. For nine dollars and ninety nine cents. All right, now let's get back to today's podcast. And then I think there's value and experience in other parts. But at WWS FSC Mantrible in Stephan Wickmahn, they don't want to think of themselves as part of the wrestling industry. They want to see themselves as WWE. And there's just there's a way that we do things. We're not part of this larger fabric anymore.
We just are this industry and it's I think it's it's a it's a shame and certain in a lot of ways. And I think someone unnecessary or quite a bit unnecessary because when I when I was in England, I was in England in November, and then I went to Australia and there's a couple of people that stood out to me. This one fella, you know, he looks like Bobby Lashley, He's Bill like Bobby Lashley. And this guy is good, I mean he is really good. They call him ooh oh
the Great and I was really impressed with him. And you know, and so you know, I called Billy Gunn because Billy works down the performance center. I said, you guys got to get this guy. I mean, he's really good. He's got charisma, he can cut a promo, he can work, and he looks great, you know. And he's not your typical you know, bodybuilder where he can't move. This guy can move. And then as far as the girls, I was in Australia. There's a girl. Her name is Cassie, and you know, and I told Billy
Gunn about her too. She is unbelievable. I mean she because I did a training camp down there in Australia and she was there. She doesn't work like your typical girl does. I mean, I you know, I could have swore she was a guy dressed as a female, because not that she looks like a guy, but I mean, I'm just saying because her work was so good, so polished, so everything was so chris everything looked believable,
everything she did, you know. And and I'm hoping that, you know, people like this get a break because I'm telling you these way these guys were good, you know. So there's a lot of great talent out there that's just been undiscovered. And I and I really believe if they had a scout just go around to all these independent shows, if they can you know they can find good talent like that, you know, instead of I
don't know how they get the guys into the performance center. Now, I don't know what they have to do to get there, but I don't you know, they send in video of them or what, or pictures or what. I don't. I have no idea, but I think it would be a great idea if they just send somebody out to do go to all these independent shows around the country and find talent, because there is some talent out there that's unbelievable. Well, hopefully they do that, and if they don't,
hopefully that is TNA's game. You know, hopefully TNA those scouts out there and takes advantage of that. If W dow he doesn't, I want to clarify that wwe will bring somebody in from the indie scene, but there that's not the first place they look, and it's not where they want to look. And if somebody is hot on the indie scene, they're still going to put him through the performance center. And like you said, Bob kind
of treat it like, oh God, you learn some bad habits. You're even further behind than we want than you would be if you came to us first, like that's the feeling that they're giving off. But Triple H said in his grant Land interview last August, we want everybody who makes it to the main roster within a couple of years to have gone through a full performance center run and and be in developmental and and and he sees, you know, he sees the roster being a prop you know, a product of developmental.
Anyway, we are at a time of the live cast, Bob, I know you just have a few more minutes, and I want to talk to you when they'll get the after show about brock Lesner. It's the ten year anniversary of your World title main event pay per view match with brock Lesner. I want to talk about working with him and doctors thoughts on his return, and a couple other things. We've got a couple of email questions too.
If you're on holding, we didn't get to you, you can drop us an email real quick and we might get to in the after show. PW Torch livecast at gmail dot com. Please do check out pwtorch dot com. I told you some of the news items that are on there today news every day. Also, if you've got a smartphone and you probably do download our app. Search PW Torch in the app store and while you're at it, if you like UFC, download mmatorch also or visit mmatorch dot com.
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to this right now. PW Torch dot com, slash email sign up and Bob, thank you so much. Your book is the Hardcore Truth. I looked it up on Amazon. You can get it on tindall for eight dollars fifty four cents. They have paperback copies for seventeen dollars and people just check it out. I say something real quick way, Yeah, but I do, But I meant. Everybody can follow me on Twitter at the Bob Holly. And you know I've said this before on your show. If you send
me a tweet, I will talk to you. And if you go back and look at my history of tweets, I speak to everybody, and if you talk to me, I will take time to talk to you. And if I don't get to you right away, I promise you I will talk to you. So tweet me at the Bob Holly if you got any questions or whatever, I'd be happy to answer for you. And if you throw some garbage at me, you won't get any answers. You're just blocked. So I don't I don't play that game going back and forth with somebody.
So yeah, everybody's following me at the Bob Holly Thank you, Wade, Thank you very very much. Bob, thank you for your time. We got to have you on again soon because you're always a great guest and you're
one of our listeners favorites. And also, if we have a chance in the after show, I want to talk about your experience at speaking to college kids recently who were signed watching raw reading your book and you did a Q and A with them, and I'm I'm curious to talk to you about it if we have time today, it'd be fun to hear about what that experience was. Absolutely surprised. Yeah, so excellent. All right, thank you
already for joining us. Don't forget Sunday night after the World Rumble live right here at PW torchlivecast dot com is where you want to be to get the postgame show live eleven thirty Eastern, about a half hour after the Rumble ends. Joined James Caldorf for the live Postgame Show VTP members. Be on the lookout Sunday night for Bruce Mitchell, Pat McNeil, and I will do an
end depth our own table right after the Royal Rumble. Thank you everybody for joining us until Sunday night on behalf of my guests, Bob Holly, this is PW Torch dot Com editor Wade Keller signing off. Not all right, We're now in the VIP after show portion of the program. Bob, I assume you were aware that it was the tenth anniversary of the Black Lester match at the Royal Rumble. Actually I was not aware of it, but now I am, uh talk about talk about You talked about it in the book,
and I know it was a special opportunity for you. What what was your thought when when that What do you remember about your thoughts of that match being uh given to you, I guess her, or being given a chance to be in a match of that high profile in the two thousand and four Royal Rumble. Oh, I thought it was a great, great opportunity.
You know, I was on cloud nine. I was like, you know, because all my hard hard work paid off, and I thought, well, maybe this is my ticket, you know, if if if I can pull this off, you know and have a good match with Brock, you know, maybe this has an opportunity to go somewhere. But you know, little did I know. I didn't know what was going on, you know,
behind closed doors. You know, they had no plans for me, you know, because and and you know, to be perfectly honest, Brock didn't want to work with me. And it's not because I didn't like It's not because he didn't like me or he didn't like working with me because he knew he wasn't going to make any money with me because I wasn't a top guy. I wasn't. I wasn't you know, one of the major players you know, on on the on the roster, and I was never pushed
as a top guy. I was really never, you know, because I was never really held any major titles. You know, I had the tag team belts and you know, and I was a hardcore champion, but I was never Intercontinental or US champ the end. And honestly and honesty, I don't blame him in that aspect aspect, because he wasn't going to make a whole lot of money working with me unless they started pushing me, you know and giving me, you know, giving me title shots down the road here
and there and making me a major player. And because the where I was on the card, I mean, this was just one of those things where okay, they brought me back from my injury, so let's play off of this and let's go with it, and and it just it didn't go very far. And so but you know, I'm going into this whole thing thinking, you know, this is my chance to really do well. And then after the royal rumble's over, I get to TV and then all of a sudden, I'm not doing anything, and it's like, well, wait a
minute, what's going on here? You know, And so I just it just it is what it is, and you know, there's nothing I can do about it. I wasn't going to complain and bitch and piss and moan about it, you know, because that wasn't gonna get me anywhere. And I thought, well, you know, maybe an opportunity, maybe they'll do something with me again, hopefully that maybe they'll come up with something, you know, But you know, it just it wasn't meant to be, I
guess. And that's the way I always try to look at it. Yeah, Yeah, am I disappointed? Yes, you know, because you know, when you're put in that role, you make a ton of money, and you know, and that's what every that's what it's all about. It boils down to money, you know. And and I was having a good time. I enjoyed working with Brock, you know, I it was it was fun because it was physical with him, and I didn't mind that.
And you know, and I can, I can crack him as hard as I want, and he wasn't gonna, you know, take it in a way where I was trying to hurt him or anything, because then he can hit me as hard as he wanted to. And I didn't care because that's the way I was. And but I was just kind of, you know, disappointed after the fact that I just that was the end of the line
for me, so to speak. So you know, though, every Sunday, I catch Wrestling Night in America on PW Torchdailycast dot Com, hosted by me PW Torch calumnist Greg Parks. Each week, I'll welcome a co host from the Torch family to discuss the big shows in pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails. You can listen live most week's beginning at eight pm Eastern. On Sunday nights with a WWE or Impact pay per view, we go
on the air. At the conclusion of that pay per view, you can listen live, but of course, the full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs. Visit PW torchdailycast dot com and click the live stream link to find the next scheduled live show link. Search PW torch and Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe Wrestling Night in America every Sunday, PW Torchdailycast dot com. Well, how is it working with broad Just
on a personal level? I think people are fascinated with him because well, I mean, for so many reasons. He just he's one of the more Uh, I don't know, I don't even know how to put he He's somebody who's really good at professional wrestling. But he's incredible athlete, incredible athlete, but he wasn't He didn't feel like one of the boys in a traditional sense. And then talk about that, is that an accurate perception? And how was he different than the average guy that you ran across, who was
the top guy? He just Brock was just Brock. I mean, he just had this you know, I don't give a shit attitude, and you know, I'm you know, he says what he feels and what he thinks and that's just the way it is. And he didn't, you know, he didn't he didn't get into the political part of it either. I don't believe, you know, he never seemed to me like he was one of those guys that you know, played the political game. You know, if
if he likes you, likes you. If he doesn't, you'll know he doesn't like you, you know, And so I just you know, the thing is, Brock is a businessman, and and Brock's gonna do what's best for Brock, and that's the way it should be. And he was just, you know, he was nice to everybody in the back. You know, he was fun to hang out with. He was you know, he'd liked to kid around a lot, and you know, play games and stuff
like that. And but he was just, you know, he just he wasn't It's like you said, he wasn't one of your typical you know, the typical that the typical role of you know, being you know, part of the locker room. Rock was just you know, Brock was Brock's own person basically. You know, he just did he didn't cave into all the political bs. Yeah. Yeah. Was there anything between you and Brock in that match that was not typical that got a little intense or were there hard
feelings based on things that went on in that match. People talk about that a lot and are curious what was going on in that match, if there was any undercurrent or things that maybe you have to watch the match on a different level to experience or understand. Right. No, no, there was no you know, none, none of no heat between us or you know, you know, nothing you know made me up what he did or I
upset him what I did or anything. There was nothing like that. It's you know, and it's funny because it's funny how people talk and they act like they were right there in the middle of it, you know, and they think they know, and that just what I laugh at that because it's like, you know, I read stuff and it's like Brock says he didn't like Bob Holly and he wanted to beat this crap out of him and this and blah blah, and you know Bob did did this on purpose to him
and stuff, and it's like, where do they get this stuff because they weren't there, you know, And it's it's it's the furthest from the truth. And you know that's what I tell people. We got along great. I enjoyed working with him. You know, it was fun, you know, to me, it was fun because I didn't have to worry about, Okay, am I going to be too rough with this guy or whatever?
You know, And if if anything, I wasn't rough enough with him, you know, because he's he is probably one of the you know, the roughest of the roughest that would you know, you know, you can be as rough as you want with him, but guess what, you better be ready for it back because you're going to get it back, you know. And then people it's funny because you know, people just have this per se they they watch two guys out there and they think they know what's going on
when they don't. They truly don't, you know. And And like I said, and when I got hurt that night, Brock was just like over the top, you know, sympathetic. I mean, he really was. And I just I told him to fucking knock it. Oh excuse my language. I told him to knock it off, you know, pretty much, because you know it was it was like because he felt bad, you know, and I told him not to worry about it because it was an accident. You know. I I didn't get up like I should have got up,
and it just it was one of our timing was off. And it wasn't his fault at all, not at all. You know. It's just one of those freak accidents that have happened, you know. And he and even after my surgery, he called me and checked on me, and you know, everything was good, you know. And and uh, but none of that stuff between me and him, none of that stuff was done out of spider on purpose or anything. You know, it was just it was
you know, we went out there and work. We did what we had to do, and we got along fine, you know, because if you don't get along with them, but you're not gonna make money with them, you know. And and and so and you know. And but I've always enjoyed working with him, you know, I always have, always have. Let's let's talk about the experience. Uh, was it Dubuke University, Bob that you spoken? Yeah? Yeah, talk about how that came about.
I'm I'm curious in particular when you give a little background on it, Uh, if you were surprised by any of the questions and and kind of what the tone of the reaction was after reading your book, how enlightening it was because I'm sure there were some students in that class, uh who had not watched wrestling and didn't really know a lot about it and had some preconceptions that reading your book broke. Yeah. They Actually what it was was it was
a sports marketing and management class. And I did a book signing uh at Aaron debuke, at a at a bar, at a casino, and had it was a great turnout. You know, I'd stood there for two hours straight, you know, signing autographs with books and everything, and sold a lot of books. And you know, one of the teachers happened to be there and got my book, and well, he read my book and thought it was quite interesting, and so he wanted to set up another book signing
at Laura's College here in Debuque, and so that's what we did. And then he told me he was gonna make it one of his requirements for the class to read or required reading, because they were gonna uh do sports marketing, uh sports marketing uh subject or whatever. And so I thought I thought I was flattering. I was like, wow, that's that's pretty good.
And he you know, and and so Laura's College got in touch with us, and you know, we delivered you know, thirty books to them or whatever, and the class, you know about the books, and and so he the teacher sent my wife an email and asked if I would come and watch Monday Night Raw with them and this which was this past what not this past Monday, but the Monday night before, And I said sure, you
know so and a lot of them have never watched wrestling. Some of them were your casual wrestling fan, and and some of them knew who I was. And I thought it was pretty It was a unique kind of situation for me, and I was just I was flattered. I mean, it was it was kind of neat, you know, you know, because they they talked about, you know, the whole point of you know, why guys
go over and why did they tell stories? And how do they determine who's going to get pushed and you know, and it basically all boils down to you know, marketing and selling, you know, selling pay per views and television shows and stuff. So and then that's, you know, basically, in a nutshell, what it was about. And I thought it was I
thought it was pretty neat. I was like, you know, they want to do a book with me, And I just you know, I just I was just blown away by it, really because Laura's college is a major college here in Iowa. Yeah, and you know, and I thought, shoot, that's a big deal, you know. And I was just I was really flattered by it. And you know, very humbling experience, very humbling. What was there one question that stood out the most that surprised you
that you were impressed with or thrown off by that? The students asked, Yeah, my wife just told she said, the internship. The guy there's a gentleman that asked me what does he need to do to get an internship with WWE. Yeah, And I asked him, I'm like, well, what do you want to intern? And he really couldn't answer me, and because I said, there's you know, they they they do internships, but there's a whole list of jobs that you can do, and he couldn't specifically
tell me one thing. And I just thought it was kind of funny that, you know, you know, and he's he wasn't a wrestling fan. And then but one guy he wanted to become a sports therapist, you know, a trainer, one of the trainers in the back the sports therapy and stuff like that, and you know, I thought that was pretty cool too,
because he he was interested in the travel and stuff. And I don't think he quite understood how much travel was involved because he, you know, because he asked me, goes, okay, do you guys if somebody gets hurt, just somebody there to see to it that you guys are taken care
of. And you know, and I went into the whole thing. We have trainers in the back that you know, they say, tape us up, do whatever, ice ice and all the electronics stuff that they hook up to you if you have you know, injuries here and there and whatever. And you know, he was very interested in becoming you know, a sports therapist or what and whatnot. And uh but I he because he thought they
only traveled on you know, once a week. And I told him, I was like, no, these guys travel every single night with them. I didn't get that. And and and and I think also it blew the class away too, that how much travel is involved, how much work is involved, you know, because they only see what's on TV. And they did, they did not realize when I told him, I said that right there, what you see is the fun part. That's not work that's enjoyable.
I said, the work starts once you leave that ring and go to
the back when your work really that's when your job really starts. And they didn't quite understand that when I said it to them, And then of course I went into explaining to why as to why, and it just kind of blew them away, you know, as to how much is involved, how much traveling, how much preparation you have to do, you know, and and how much work outside of television you have to do, and and how much you have to keep up with and you know, in hotels and rental
cars and so forth, and you know, and it just cocked them off guard as far as that, because they didn't think it was that, you know. And like I said, they written my book and realized it, but before that they just did not realize the travel that was involved or the work that was involved. We're doing. And I think a lot of fans, you know, new fans that I think they don't understand either, you know. So give yourself a reason to look forward to going to the mailbox
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paper Copy. Did you think that they're still the college students did not grow up with any kind of exposure even peripherally to the presumption that wrestling is real competition Like that age group just never had that was that interesting to you? Did did they under did they seem surprised at how the wrestling industry worked, or or or or did they just kind of go with the flow and it was like, yeah, we always kind of knew what it was like.
No, they didn't. They they weren't sure. They had an idea, as everybody has an idea, you know, and but they weren't quite sure how how winners and losers are determined. You know that that kind of blew them away too, when I explained to them, you know, the storylines and stuff like that, because they they like, how do you guys decide
who wins? Do you guys just decide amongst yourselves? And I said, no, no, no, no, we have writers, we have storylines we have to go by because they're selling a pay per view at the end of every month, and they write TVs and storylines towards those pay per views because because they're selling these pay per views, trying to get people interested in buying the pay per view, and you know, and they and I explained how that all worked, and they they started understanding that, and they had
no clue whatsoever that you know, that's how somebody you know, you know, it's like the popularity, Well, how is their popularity determined? Yeah, you know, and you know, so it's like they had an idea because you know, they would come to me and say, well, I know it's fake, but you know, and it's like, you know, yeah, they always you know, people throw that word fake out there. It's fake is not how you describe wrestling, describe it as entertainment. You
describe it as athletic soap opera. Because if fake, yeah, everything is scripted, don't get me wrong, but it's fantasy. It's the bumps are reel that hits you take a reel. They're not the kind of hits you take. You know, if you punch somebody in the face, obviously you're not getting full hit completely, but yeah, you're getting connected something. You know, you're connecting to an extent that I wouldn't quite go as far as
saying it's fake. And that's what I explained to them, and they understood that too, you know. So I don't think people mean anything by it, but I don't think they realize it's not an applicable term, right Yeah, I agree, they don't mean anything by it, by no means. I just don't think they know what term to use, right yeap to describe
it. You know. I think it's where you know, they're they're missin formed, you know, And I don't blame them for saying that because I'm telling you when I was young too, I would say the same thing because you know, you know, yeah, Bob, the first thing you should have done is when someone said that, especially if it was a guy, you should have said, come on to the stage, let me show how fake it is and just beat them up. Because that's what they had have
done in the seventies. Yeah, yeah, oh exactly, Yeah, they would do. And it's funny, you know, and you know, and and people, it's funny because like, you know, people try to you know, get to me, you know, like on Twitter and stuff. You know, people, you know, I get some people trying to light my fire and things like that, and they call me name this and that, and you know, I just I go l O L or I just
don't even ignore. I ignore it and I just block them. And it's funny because it's like they're trying to engage me into their into their conversation by cussing me out, and you know it's not and I just laugh. And then, you know, but you know, fake as far as you know. And I tell people too, and you know, I was like, you know, if somebody does you know, fake or whatever, and I just I play along with it too, because it's like, you know,
I get it. I get it, you know, and I think they're not saying it to be hurtful or to to you know, to put down or downgrade what I do or anything like that. I just think they just they're uneducated about it and they don't know what term to use. Bobby, we're fifteen minutes over the time allotted, and I can edit this out because I don't want to put you on the spot. Do you want to take two email questions? Or do you have to run because I can save these
firsts? No? No, no, I'll take him. I'll take dol email. Yeah, I'll do it. Okay, great, yep, and no pressure because I know if you got somewhere to be, don't worry about it. Cool. Well, let's take the first of the two questions. This is from Jason, who says, first, I just wanted to give my endorsement for Bob's book. I've read many wrestling autobiographies and never have I read one that I felt so that felt so brutally honest without sounding spiteful.
That's a really nice compliment. Yeah, that is, it's very nice. Yeah, thank you. He wasn't afraid to step on toes and didn't try to skate around issues that could get him into trouble with people in the industry. It's truly a must read for any nineties to two thousands pro wrestling fans. They just need to get it for audible dot Com so I can listen to it. Yeah, I don't know how that works. I don't know
how they decide that stuff. Well, yeah, my wife sent ECW press and email to find out if they were going to do to an audio version. Yeah, and they said they weren't. Okay, Yeah, I know. And I think that what it is is not so much that they don't do it, is finding somebody to do the audio version for them. I think that's the issue. Yeah, you don't want to read it, Hey, maybe I'll do it. I'll be glad to sell more books. Yeah. Well, here's his questions. He goes as someone who is at the
forefront of WWE's movement toward more violent matches during the Attitude era. What are your thoughts when you watch a gimmick match today? It feels like in most gimmick matches today with hardcore steps, the gimmick ends up being more of a marketing gimmick used only to sell the match than actually a hardcore gimmick during the match itself. Like Helena Seller elimination Chamber. They just come across looking like a regular match that just happens to be inside a cage with no real added
element or k fabed danger of k faded danger. Even in an era with no cheershots to the head and no blood, the matches just come off so incredibly lame. I'd love to hear what Bob thinks when you see something like the Brian Orton hell in a sell match these days. Yeah, I you know what I I do. I think the matches are just your matches that you would see every week on TV. They're just they just have the cage
as a prop, you know. And and I'm a firm believer if you have a cage like that, because I'm old school, And if you have a cage, I mean, somebody's got to draw blood. There's got to be some you know, some kind of you know, some type of over the top violence. To me, that's just you know, my opinion.
And because when you when you're selling this hell in the cell, it's supposed to be something unique, something different, you know, from your typical match that you see, so it's supposed to be brutally violent, but in today's era, they have the PG thirteen thing going on, and so they have
to tone it down. And I understand why they do that, but I really think it hurts the credibility of the match because now when they say, hell in the cell, Okay, well, it's just another match with the cage around it, that's all it is, you know, And I think that's it, and it's because of the PG rating and and that's just the way it is now, and it's the way it's going to be for a while from you know what I see. And it would be nice if they would go back to the way it was before, but I don't see that
happening. But I'm in total agreement with it's just another match with a cage around it. Do you think there's anything positive about dialing back on it? In case someday they want to ramp it up again, there'll be a whole generation of people whose jaws will be dropped because it seemed like for a while they just would throw stipulations out there, and you know, undercard matches that had no context would have a lot of weapons, and then the main event
would be a straight wrestling match. And that's so flipped from what I grew up with and what makes the most sense to me, which is bring the weapons out, not as some sort of lower card novelty that really is just for people to laugh at the announcers to go look at them, use the toys, which is their term now for weapons, right, you know.
But but it's I think there's a happy medium, which is, like you say, if there's good a cage match, the cage should be there for a reason that he'll kept running away or kept people kept interfering, and so you need a cage to contain them. That's what the AWA did when there was a cage match. There was a reason for it, and then somebody bled because it was a hardcore feud. It wasn't some opening match that didn't matter, and they just said, well, let's satisfy those bloodthirst defense,
you know, with a quick match. Like to me, there is a happy medium where do it, but make it count when you do it, and don't put it in the opening match and happy and eults laugh at it. Right, Because back in the day, whenever they would they would build a storyline, you know, it would you know, they would have you know, they would have said match and they would have you know, several matches and then we'll get to the point where, like you said, people
would interfere and interfere. Well, that was the payoff, was the cage match. You know, That's where everybody's like, Okay, I've got to see this because now he can't get away, there's no way out, there's
no way in. Somebody's gonna get hurt in this thing. There's gonna be a winner, and that's what you always look forward to back in the day, you know, and now it just seems like it's it's almost like to me, you know, they have too many hell in the cell matches and that's just you know, and I just I think you know, the way the way they do them now where they're just you know, a cage and a match toned way down as you know, as far as the violent part
about it, you know, I don't really see. I just I think, you know, that's a tough question to answer because I think that it doesn't matter if you know, if it's toned down now, you know, I don't think they're saving it for the future as far as we're going to have to wrap it up because what I think what happened is too Also what got carried away is you know, you had your first version of the version of the hell in the Cell. Well, we got to top that.
So they would do more. They would, they would, you know, they would step it up, step it up, you know, and and they you know, they raised the bar every time there was a Hell in the Cell. They kept raising the bar, and it got to the point to where, you know, it's like, okay, where do you go from here? And thankfully they went into the PG that uh, the PG era, because it's to me it was like almost where do you go now? Because you know, so many things have happened, and it's like,
how do you top that? Yeah, you know, because keep topping it,
and you have to keep topping it. They raised the bar, raised the bar because so much crazy stuff goes on, you know, moon salt off the top and you know, and the or like or like mc foley going off the top of the cage and and you know, and breaking through because in that time McK foley went through the top of the cage that wasn't supposed to happen like that, right, and so, but I just I just think that you know it the way it is now, that you know
it's going to keep going that way for a long time. I truly believe. I don't think that later on they're gonna be able to ramp it up and and start, you know, having blood and stuff like that. I just I, you know, got our PW Torch VIP sale going on right now, a New Year sale. We don't normally do this. Get six dollars off of VIP membership right now with coupon code New Year twenty twenty four.
That's New Year twenty twenty four. Take six dollars off our normal nine dollars ninety nine cent monthly rate that gives you a month the VIP membership for three dollars and ninety nine cents. Act now. It's a limited time offer here to kick off the New Year twenty twenty four. So many perks come with VIP membership. Our retro World Class Champion Wrestling review, our post pay per view reviews both in podcast and written format, add free versions of our
free shows like this one, and so much more. PW Torch dot com, slash Go VIP coupon code New Year twenty twenty four and take six dollars off a one month, three month or one year VIP subscription. Are you? Are you, by the way, one hundred percent convinced that that second bump through the cage wasn't planned because I know make fully said it, but I think you said it because he promised his wife he wouldn't do it. But when you watch the match, he kind of avoided that spot until that
spot, until that well part of the match. Well, I'll tell you this is how it was. What was supposed to happen. Yeah, Taker was supposed to choke slam him, and it wasn't supposed to break because it was supposed to break sometime during the match, but not with a choke slam, you know, Okay, And yeah, because they were he was they were both supposed to go through it Undertaker sand Yes, if I'm not mistaken, they but I know for a fact that it was supposed to collapse.
It was supposed to break. I do know that, But that wasn't the spot that they intended it to break at. And and Taker wasn't going to take that kind of a bump. Was he going to be holding on and drop down on his feet. I mean, can't imagine him doing a flatback from through the roof. Yeah, I know, I think he was supposed to land on his feet or he was supposed to hang on. I know Mike was supposed to go through. I do know that for a fact. Yeah. But that bump, the choke, the choke slam, Yeah,
I do know that wasn't the intended spot. And I just you know, and it makes me wonder too, because it's like, how how is that thing not supposed to to give with all that weight coming down? If you know, you know what I'm saying. Oh, it makes no I do. It makes me a little suspicious of an audible being called during the match perhaps where yeah, yeah, and yeah, and I think maybe an audible was called it, and uh, you know they wanted to make it spectacular
because I know Mick he wants to go. He's over the top anyway with every bump he does, you know, so he wants to be remembered. He doesn't want to be remembered as Mick Foley. He wants to be remembered as the guy that went through that cage, you know, or you know, when flying off the top of the cage or fell through the cage like he choke slammed through it. You know, that's how he wants to be remembered. He wants to be remembered for the guy that did these crazy stunts,
you know. And so I just I really think that, you know that, you know, because I do know for a fact that that thing was supposed to to fall open. But I just I think that, you know, when he choke slammed him, they wanted to go through then, you know, maybe because that wasn't the intended spot for that thing to break. And I just think Mick is she wants to be remembered for, you
know, crazy bombs and stuff like that. So you know, I just really think an audible was called right there and said, hell, let's just go through it right now. Just choke slam me right here. You know though, Let's let's let's go to another Jason, this from Long Island to be IFP member for five plus years, and he said, my question deals with the Dudley's Holly s feud that featured the Starcross lovers Spike and Molly's storyline.
I remember that being a really good hat fields in McCoy's asque storyline that myself and my friends were enjoying up until it was abruptly dropped and then Molly somehow owned up as a sidekick of Hurricane Helms. Can you provide some insight into that feud, into why it was dropped so suddenly? Yeah, See, that's that's one of those things where you just never know why they dropped something that's working. You know, we we were having a ball, all
of us were having a ball with that that angle, that storyline. You know, they had some really good stuff planned for Crash and I and Mollie and you know there, I don't know why, you know, they stopped it. I have no idea why, because it was working, it was getting over and I get people asking me those questions all the time. How come they stopped with the whole holly, you know, the storyline and stuff like that, because people enjoyed it, you know, because it was it
was different, it was fun, you know. And you know, there was another thing we were supposed to do at Christmas. It was a vignette we were supposed to do, and it was supposed to be it was a Christmas or a Thanksgiving. We're going to do. I think it was a Christmas we were supposed to do because I was supposed to get you know, sweaters for Christmas, and I was supposed to be really pissed off about it. And because he told us ahead of time, Ed oh what was his
name. He was one of our writers, Ed Cosky, Yes, sir, And he was telling me, he said, this is when we have planned for you. Because Ed was a really he was a big proponent for us. He really, you know, he was pushing for this angle big time. I mean, he always came to me and said, this is what we're doing. You know, you got any ideas, We're going to run with this thing. And you know, life was good when we were doing that. Everything was fun. And he came to me with this storyline,
Hey, we got this idea. We're going to go find this rundown trailer somewhere where we got tall grass growing up. There's you know, we're gonna put cars in the in the in the yard up on blocks and stuff, just old piece of junk cars and everything, and that's gonna be where your family lives. And I'm like, hell, yeah, let's do it, you know, And we were supposed to have like probably something like fifteen
twenty family members. It's this Christmas and it was going to be it was a great idea, and you know, it was supposed to wind up into a big fight, you know, at dinner and stuff like this. And you know, because we all me you know, obviously me and Crash never got along on TV because that was the whole thing with me and him, we just never saw eye to eye. And that was going to be the whole thing with the with the family get together is none of the families to
eye, you know. And it was gonna it was gonna it was gonna be fun, and it was gonna be good. And they dropped it. And I don't know why. And see, that's one of the things when they they you're in a storyline, then all of a sudden they decided to go a different direction, you know, with other people that may be involved in the storyline. There's no rhyme or reason why, they just do, you know. And that's something that I you know, maybe I should have.
You know a lot of times I've second guessed myself, you know, shouldn't I ask why are we not going forward with what we're doing? You
know? And and you know, I kicked myself sometimes for not asking, but you know, I've just I never wanted to really create any waves backstage, and I just wanted to do my work, do my job, and have a good time at it, because I just I didn't you know, I enjoyed what I did, and I didn't want to, you know, piss off anybody basically, And I didn't want to come off sounding like it, you know, because the thing is to wade if if if you're you're in a storyline, then all of a sudden they drop it, and you
just question why they dropped it, and you ask somebody. They might take what you said and turn it around to where it look like you're really pissed off about the whole thing, and then it looks bad. It reflects bad on you as that individual, you know, because it's like challenging them and and you know, and I didn't want to do that. I just wanted to do my job. And it's like, Okay, well maybe they'll have something for me better later on. You know. I always I always had
that hope, you know. I was always looking at the glass half full, you know, And but it maybe it's a little more faith in the system than if you kind of sat back passively, then you maybe should have in retrospect, right, Yeah, And I and a couple of times I should have. I should have came forward and said, hey, why are we not going forward with this? Yeah, but it is what it is. That's why I always try to look at it. Look, it is
what it is. There's nothing I could do to change it now, you know, because because throughout life, you know, especially, you always question things along the way, what should I have done this different? Or you know, there's a lot of things I think I could have done different that I might have benefited from. But I just I didn't do it, and I just I regret it sometimes, but I look at it like, Okay,
well I still had a great run. I still had fun doing what I was doing, you know, until the end, because I really ran. It wasn't having fun. But and that that's the thing for me. As long as I'm having fun, you know, that's that's all that matters to me. But in retrospect, yeah, I should have stepped up and said, hey, you know, how come we stopped the storyline with the Dudleys because it was going good, you know, And I didn't and to
answer the email question. You know there is no reason why they stopped. They you know, there really wasn't a reason. They had no reason, you know from you know so because it was going good, it was getting over So it is what it is. Yeah, yeah, well, Bob,
thank you so much once again. You're very generous with your time and great stories and great insights and entertaining and informative, all those great early and as I said, u VFP members who are listening now, can uh I encourage you to uh buy his book on your on your Kindler, nooker online or at an actual brick and mortar store they still exist, and UH support what Bob did and read some more great stories. It comes with our highest
recommendation, Bob. We well look forward to having you on again a few months on the line. Beck, Yes, I would love to come back on. Please don't forget about me. I won't. I won't. You're too good of a guest. And you know, it was great today because you had some things say about Daniel Bryan, and you had some insights about two people in the news right now, Batista and brock Lesnar with some experiences
with both of them. You talked about the performance Center, and and I mean just you're you're able to uh provide that that credible first person insight and perspective on some things that are still current and wrestling and so in addition to just fun stories. It's it's really nice because I think people will watch Batista differently having heard what you said about him, and watch Daniel Brian differently having heard you with the credibility that you carry saying what you said about him.
So it's all great, well, good, good deal. I'm glad I can I hope. I hope I can help you know, that's that you know. I just you know, I hope I can help. So anyway, but I thank you a lot, man, I really do, and I appreciate a way I do. I'll hold you in high regard. I respect the hell out of you, and I really appreciate everything you do. You've done for me, pushing my book and everything having me on the show. I do. I am very grateful to you, man, I really
appreciate it. Thank you. And people can follow you at Triple h Rules right on Twitter, yeah yeah, no, they can follow me at the Bob Holly yeah excellent, excellent, and follow me by the Way at the Wade Keller. If you're a VIP member not doing that and you're on Twitter, shame on you Follow me at alt Way Keller and follow Bub Holly at Don Bob Holly Well from two doues on Twitter, This is Way Keller and me Apple Bob Holly Thanking everybody and signing off. Invite you to email the
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