INTERVIEW CLASSIC: Ex-WWE Creative Team Member Chris DeJoseph on how Triple H differs from Vince creatively, Benoit conspiracies, more

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Interview is one of pro Wrestling's newsmakers. Ten years ago. This week, former WWWE Creative Team member Christ Joseph joined me to talk about WWE network plans, the WrestleMania thirty lineup, Chris Benwack conspiracies, Stephan may Man's new corporate title, how Triple H differs from Vince McMahon creatively, and more, Chris Joseph, one of the senior members of the WWE creative team in terms of how many years he put in behind the scenes at that time, with tons

of great stories and insights on what it was like to work in WWE in the two thousands. So let's get to that interview, which originally live streamed on December sixth, twenty thirteen, ten years ago. This week it is today's Wig Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast Ten Years Ago Interview Classic four Saturday, December ninth, twenty twenty three. Welcome to the p W Torch Live cabs.

I am Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty seven, celebrated twenty two years in business last month, and also pw torch dot com, which launched in nineteen ninety nine, and also the PW Torch app. Just searched PW Torch in the iOS Store for Apple or

the Google Play Store for Android devices. We're also in the Windows Phone Store and the Amazon Kindle Fire Store and also on Samsung Smart televisions and DVD players from the past couple of years, and also I host the PW Torch Live cast. We are on their five days a week, sometimes six after big pay per views, but we're here Monday through Friday. I host usually on Tuesdays and Friday, although this week I switched days with with pw Torch Assistant

editor James Caldwell. He hosted Tuesday with Jason powellopro Wrestling dot Net, and I hosted solo yesterday and took your phone calls and even an email question. But because it is Friday, that means it is interview Friday, and today I'm pleased to bring back one of my favorite guests. Former WWE creative team member for many years, too many to count in the two thousands, Chris to Joseph, also known to many as Big Dick Johnson, an on air

character he played. Chris, Welcome back to the live cast. Hey, thanks for having me back with A lot is going on in professional rests right now, and yesterday I went in depth on this on the vip Weadkeller Hotline, on the latest on WWE network plants, and I kind of want to get your feelings on this right now. Although WWE issued us a statement today, I think they kind of sent it to all the wrestling media who don't

really exist unless they have something to clarify. Their statement was trying. I don't think it ruled anything out, but for those who aren't up on it, we put a story on pw torch dot com in the app yesterday too.

Last night, Chris. The plan is for the network right now to possibly launch without cable support, possibly launch with just internet access through smart devices such as Xbox, PlayStation, Roku, smart TVs like where the pw Torch app is and Samsung Smart TVs, LG Panasonic, and be an app that you would heep out for free, and then within that app subscribe for a monthly fee, which you would probably have to buy in six month funnels at

least out of the gate somewhere between eight and fifteen dollars a month, probably somewhere right in the middle of that, probably twelve ninety five or something like that. And with that, if you subscribe to that, you would get

access to justin Lebart wrestle Zone. First report it. I hadn't heard it elsewhere that they'd have every run, every SmackDown in every pay per view available on demand instantly, and WrestleMania would be streamed live to any subscriber to this new network and that it would just come with a COSP So if it was twelve bucks a month for the six months of service, basically for the price of WrestleMania, you can get WrestleMania and six months in network content for basically

the same price. They're hoping out of the gate with the WrestleMania carrot being dangled that they can come out of the gate roaring. I don't know if it's if this is all coming out to create leverage with cable companies so that they can get a few cable companies on board also, or if they've just decided screw it, we're going to look, we're going to be pioneers, and we're going to be the major brand that drives people to a new distribution

model. And we think we can do it because of how popular WrestleMania is and how many what a vast, vast library of compelling content that we have along with some original programming. And then the channel final point here, the channel would stream live, so there would be a live stream always airing something in addition to whatever they had on demand, so you can just tune in

and watch passively NonStop. Just put it on your TV and that's where there'd be the twenty four to seven content that they would schedule, perhaps including some first run TV shows. WWE responded. Adam Hopkins, their public relations director, said, in addition to not being able to confirm the timing of WWE Network's launch, WWE is still considering all options for distribution, pricing, and role of pay per view, so they're not wanting to say anything yet.

But the speculation is that at the Consumer Electronics Show in January, vinsick Man will be at a press conference announcing that. And at first the thought, well, why would they announce this at CES. That's not really a I

mean, it's not really a cable television place. But if they're looking to do if they're looking to be at the forefront the largest brand to get behind online app channel technology that's emerging, there's no better place, in no more logical place to do it than at CES in the middle of the week. I know, for being there the last two years, Wednesday is pretty much the biggest day at that convention, and that's when they're holding the press conference.

Vincick Man is present, and I think there'd be quite a buzz because that's where smart TVs are revealed and smart devices, so I wanted to catch people up on that. I have a lot more details and analysis, I mean, probably ten twelve minutes at least in depth, in addition to what I just said on the Way Teller hotline yesterday for VIP members. But I wanted to get the live cast listeners caught up a little bit on the basics.

Chris, with all of that thrown out there, A, are you hearing anything different from your following the industry and to what's your reaction to that model? I haven't heard anything different other than that, but that sounds like a pretty good model to me. Yeah, I don't know. I mean I I kind of seems like it's seeing on the way of the future now, is you know, with you know your Netflix and whous and Rocus and Apple TVs and all all all that you're smart Google TV, the Google stick.

I mean, if they could just skip that and no, it's it's you're going from a broadcast to a narrow cast now and you can hit those people and get people to subscribe. I think it's a it's a it's a pretty good value, especially with WrestleMania included. And yeah, exactly and perhaps you know, the NHL and Major League Baseball are doing it too. You can get those the same way. And I don't know. I think it's

a it's a pretty good thing. And and the interesting thing about the approach that they're taking is the they basically are kind of sticking it to the cable companies and and saying, you know what, you guys didn't want to play ball. We gave you first DIBs. That was our first choice. Uh. But the model, it's just the pricing model, wasn't there the price split in order to do that is is debilitating in a way. I mean that sixty bucks seventy bucks on WrestleMania, WWE keeps a little bit under half

of that. With this model, they keep almost all of it. I mean, there's not I mean so, I just think it's a really good

situation if they can get people to do it. And I think the timing is great for them with Xbox, with Xbox One coming out as all in one entertainment system, where a lot of people are going, I'm going to cut the cord on cable because it's exorbitantly expensive and I don't watch ninety eight percent of the channels and I'm going to get by without it, and I'm going to just use my Xbox to get the stuff that I need with Hulu and Netflix and like you said, the major league sports apps that will stream

life coverage and that kind of thing. Plus you just buy a hi high def antenna for you know, sixty bucks at best Buy and you can still watch the major networks that are not cable, that are not tied to cable. It's a fascinating change in direction, and they can end up making more money using this approach. So I don't know, it's a really fascinating story and well, we'll see where it goes. And then they have their big TV deal next year, but I think this gives them more leverage with that,

so interesting times. I want to hear listeners thoughts on this too. We can join and you guys can join in this discussion. Six four six seven nine to two eight six four six nine eight two eight is the number if you're listening to What's Live. We're on the air live Tuesday through Friday at five point thirty Eastern two thirty Pacific. Monday's were on in the hour

before Raw. So the next show will be Bruce Mitchell Port senior columnists for twenty two years, joined by Travis Bryant, host of the East Coast Cast. You can find that on blog talk Radio at blogtalk radio dot com slash East Coast Cast. It's live every Wednesday night, and after show is available for VIP members and they'll be on Monday and the hour leading up to Raw. Chris. One other news item before we start taking phone calls and see

what people want to talk about. Here is Stephanie McMahon. She was given a new title job day promotion to what is it the vice president of brand Identity. I'm probably getting are just coming up with new titles all the time over there, Yes, you know what they wanted. They're copying everything, Chris. So it's like they got a showrunner. The agents became producers.

Like every term that's used in the TV industry they want to use. And there is in corporations a title that's similar to this, like the person in charge of brand identity and promoting the brand. And WWE isn't a really a wrestling company. They're a brand that sort of presents a wrestling like product. They're kind of the cheese whiz of pro wrestling now it's more of a brand than an actual promoter of fights now and so Stephanie's kind of shifting away from

creative to that? Does does that surprise you because you got to work with Stephanie a lot. Did she seem like somebody who would ever want to move away from creative, which it sounds like she's been in the last six months. Even Triple H talked about it in the Grantline to interview a couple months back. She's been, you know, less and less involved in creative this year compared to previous years. Well, she was less and less involved in

creative when I was there. I mean from my first year to my last year, it just became usless. I think the more she took on within the company. So what your theory there remind people of that? It was some two thousand and six to two ten. So yeah, no, two thousand and four. Sorry, I've even saved Yeah, she uh, yeah, she became less and less involved in the creative process, became less meetings

because I mean she just had so much on her plate. So, you know, Stephanie was was always with alved in other decisions and marketing and and branding, and you know, within her busy schedule, I think she didn't have the necessary time to you know, offer creative input, let alone go good creative input. Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at petew torch dot com.

That's Wade Keller Podcast at PW torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us on Twitter at PW torch and follow me at the way that's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller And do you think that from your span of time there five plus years, six tears that she got at when you first got there, did she seem like she was really engaged in creative and that that was something that she might be doing for a

very long time. And were you impressed with how she led the meetings and how she led or did you think this probably isn't her long term place. Well, she never really led the meetings. Staffane was involved. I mean she was, she gave us our marching orders, but as far as coming up with creative and leading the meetings, I mean very rarely. I mean she would pretty much feel the ideas and keep the meeting. You know,

rolling, especially once Evince. I mean, she would be involved in it for a thing out here and there, listen to everybody's ideas and give her opinion. But for the most part, throwing creative ideas and pitches out there wasn't necessarily, you know, Stephanie's forte you know. And as you were there, Triple H took on more and more of a role. And now he's going to be kind of the head of the wrestling side of things. Stephanie is going to be kind of the head of the corporate side of things,

and that seems to be where everyone thought things would probably settle. Anyway, Triple H kind of overseeing whoever is in charge of talent relations. He probably is beyond being DP of talent relations that he will always probably oversee the VP of talent relations and also the secondary person in charge of creative under Vincent

Mann. Vince obviously is always the number one guy. Chris. As a sidebar, right, we probably asked this before, but did you ever chuckle while you're at wwe how much blame the writer's got when in fact, what people were voicing on the internet, especially what people were voicing they wanted to happen was actually what the writers were pitching, and it was Vincent Mann who often was rewriting it and taking things in a different direction. Oh, on,

those things happen all the time. Yeah, I can't tell you how many times, you know, he you know, the writers are more blamed for things, and you know, we, at least from my perspective of being there, the writers always wanted the best of the product. But sometimes that there's a there's a constant fight, you know. I mean sometimes vinces right. Sometimes he wasn't, you know, but it was his company and

that was kind of the way it was. I mean, I'm sure there are things that we came up with that, you know, not necessarily people

necessarily didn't like. But yeah, there were times and probably more times than the less where it would be you know, I kind of knew what we're you know, what was going out wasn't going to be great now from what you saw of Triple H and And this is people keep asking this because obviously right now, I mean, the writers would have wanted to most of the rights probably would have wanted to go with Tang a bridist champion, give him away and give the fans what they want. Vince is is into big guys,

he wants muscular guys. He wants somebody and it was kind of a shoot. They wanted somebody who could be the face of the company, and Daniel Bryant they just didn't see as that guy, so decided to turn it into kind of a quote reality storyline. Management doesn't want this guy's face of the company, and they'll do anything to stop it no matter what the fans want. Where does Triple H fall in between those two? It is somewhat

oversimplified, but I think not that far oft from reality binary choice. You know, there's what the fans want, and then Daniel Bryant type of push and then there's what finsic Mann kind of pushes through. Where's Triple H falls philosophically from what you were able to discern in five six years of being around him. I mean, I think Triple H, who where does he stands

philosophically as far as Who's champions? Well, do you think he's thinks a lot differently than Vince McMahon is Triple H Because obviously they have a dynamic that we don't know a lot about other than they're really close. But Triple H might might have a lot of things that he would like to do if Finsic Man were not in charge, but he's given up long ago even pretending to suggest that that's a possibility. So he just kind of goes along and tries

to get his ideas in. Is that what happens. Do you think Triple H has philosophically sharp differences with Vince that he just kind of suppresses because it's pointless, or do you think he's kind of bought into Vince and if Vincent Man disappeared next week, there wouldn't be this major shift in the next year.

And how Creative is directed. I don't think that that he necessarily I don't know if it's like takes a back seat to vent at all or doesn't you know, just just I don't know exactly how you put it up, But I think that that Honor gives his opinion and lets them be known.

I'm sure it's a little bit different scenario. I'm sure. I mean, every year, the more and more he got involved with Creative, I mean, obviously, the more I mean Vince would like his ideas, appreciate his ideas, and go with his ideas, and and you know, it's so much experience in the business. I think, you know, I don't know, this was a great asset to to create it for us, at least as an outlet and as somebody who could input ideas, at least when I

was there. So I don't think it's a thing of like, oh, I've just resigned to the fact that that Vince makes the decision. I think I think there's a little bit of back and forth there and a little you know, balling between each other to try to get to get what they want. But I think ultimately, you know, they try to make the best decisions for the company. I think together that that's the way I would I would see that that relationship happening from the from the relationship that I know that

Hunter and Vince haid. Yeah. Yeah, So do you think again, like if everything you said makes sense to me, but do you think a Vincent man took a year off, took a year hiatis, which of course is just will pass the laughter. How different do you think the product would be versus Vince staying around? And in what ways would it be different if Triple Ah didn't have to filter and confer with Vince. I do think it would be very different. I would tend to think that it might be a

little more edgy. I do, and I also, you know, think there are certain hokeiness to I think. I think to Vince, yeah, I don't think that Hunter would would bring I mean personally, I mean, I know Vince is a genius and some of the ideas he comes up with support that I didn't see in person were amazing. I mean, but I don't know. To me, I would rather work on a creative team led by Hunters rather than by Vince. And why because you like the edginess and

there's like I don't know, I just kind of I don't know. To me, I think Hunter was a little more with the times and a little more you know, I think he's got his finger on the pulse of pop culture a little more than than the sig nand does well that would be tough not to write. Yeah, that is definitely true. And I don't know. I always enjoyed working with Hunter, so I guess maybe and maybe that's maybe that's the thing. I was enjoyed working with Hunter. I didn't enjoy

working with Vince. That's that'll, that'll, that'll, that'll could I could be biased, but yes, yeah, well, I mean not really. I don't really biased as much as you know. It's not biased to say I'd rather work with somebody over somebody else because I think their ideas are better, you know, and they work he works better with the writers. So that's just kind of that's what we're looking for. It's that kind of insight, so you know, you know, but then you know there are things

that then comes up with that. It's just amazing amazes me sometimes. Yeah, yeah, very cool, both good and bad. I don't know if I answered that question at all. No, I think you did. I'm happy with it. If callers want to call up and ask for follow up, feel free, but I'm satisfied. I will say, we just got numbers in from Impact last night. I'll sneak in it just a quick news update. These quarterly hours, these quarterly numbers are just always disturbing for Impact.

Their first two quarter hours did a one point better than a one point one, and then every single quarter hour well I sent serments score the rating dropped from the second quarter hour did a one point one four, I went to a one point oh seven and then down to a point nine to six. They got a little bump at the start of the second hour to one point oh three and then it went down to p ninet to seven point nine to one and point nine two, So they continue to lose viewers as the

show progresses. I want to parlay that into another question for Chris to Joseph, our guest today XWWE creative team member from twenty four to twenty ten, and we're gonna go right into calls Chris, the the way Raw was structured as a two hour show, and now from what you've seen of the three hour show, because we talked before Raw went to three hours, and you were on the show and you talked about each segment and you get really fascinating

details on a previous appearance on this show, kind of breaking down where the priority was and what you learned about how to format, and you know what Vince was looking for and all that. With the three hour show, it seems like they've resigned themselves to the idea that the second hour will be the most viewed because some people will only watch roughly two hours. They just don't have the patience for three, and they're not going to watch hours one and

three. Almost everybody's gonna either watch hours one and two or two and three, so you get that hour two overlap. So now they seem to have shifted some of the top stuff in hour two. But like last week or the week I should say earlier this weekend Monday, they had this really long overrun. Because the overrun still does better numbers than our three does, so we get the most important segment as the overrun, and our three was just

a lot of filler. When you look at the show, now, does your mind just kind of go wow, I don't know how I would have handled that as a writer. It's just so different than the two hour format because there's not that sense of building to a crescendo because three hours is so long. Well, I do know that, And I mean when we did three hour specials, because we would have occasional three hour raws, you know, and papers would be completely different than because you know, obviously because you

don't have to crossover at the hours and things like that. But yeah, we all we always would want to put probably your most important storyline in between hours one and two and then finish it at the you know, at the end of the hour three. Yeah, but yeah, the first the first hour and the first segment of the entire show was usually something that's important, but not necessarily unless we had to make it that way. The most important thing on the show the VA story, so to say, yeah, need

an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts? Will come join me Alan forel Over in the Progress Paradise at Pterbo Torch VIP as we mask on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and shows from around the world, be it the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico.

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pterwrew torch vip info dot com. And yes, all the i P podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our ad free VIP mobile size see you in the Paradise. Yeah, I would live. I literally I asked those guys all the time. I just I don't know how they do it every week like I would. I. Your juices have got to be running on empty at that point, you know, it's like their gas tanks have got to be running.

How to add a fuel. I mean, there's just only so much you could do and keep things fresh soil. That's the challenge that all of them take on. And you know it's it's it's a tough and and you're kind of handed it on the platter and you better, you know, you better eat it and like it well. When then through so and Ed Ferrara, who wrote Roz within sc Mandarin the Monnight I wore Era. They told me on the Ultimate Insiders DVD interviews I did with that or actually vincerou So

told me right after he left the WWS as he went to WCW. He said, when when Vince added smacked out in the mix, it completely changed our lives. Like Vince took for granted that, oh you know you did two hours robs nobody diels was that too ours a SmackDown? There was no talk of raises, no talk of more help, no talk of what this meant to their jobs. Just something they added and you just do it.

And and then meanwhile Vince was out on the interview circuit with Shane McMahon in Shane, who didn't do anything, was getting co credit for the rise of WWE, and they felt left out. And that's one of the reasons they left, you know, when went to WW. It didn't work out well when they went to WW. But nevertheless, that was there morale wise.

Vincent Edge just talked about in my interviews with them over the years, just talked about how it was demoralizing that they were asked to do four hours instead of two and there was no consideration or comment from Vince explaining, you know, okay, increased your work. How here's how you know we're gonna do it. We're gonna give you more help, We're gonna give you more credits

at least or something, or more money or whatever. Had you sense from Keith in touch with your friends there that there's been a sense of being taken for granted and that their workload went up without any additional credit or appreciation or pay or whatever. I think that there's always a sense of being taken for granted there. I mean, it almost took me years of being there for it finally kind of opened my eyes, and it's like, I'm putting in

all of this work all this time. For the most part, it's not for a lot. I mean to you literally sacrifice your life there and you're on call when Vince wants to work. So I still hear from these guys constantly. I mean, they go into the office on a Wednesday morning or let's say a Thursday, they meet with Since, for instance, they go in on a Thursday, they're there all day and sometimes Vince, he's involved in everything else. He didn't really have consideration for their time or their schedule.

So eventually sometimes they're waiting until eleven twelve o'clock at night to get approval before you can even move on and start to write a show that's going to get picked apart anyway. Yeah, So it's it's a brutal, brutal lifestyle that that I you know, I know a lot of those guys come in some some have been I think taking care of a little bit more at least guys, are you know, up a little bit higher on the ladder. But I mean, if you're just a regular Joe on that team, it's

and on the road. I know they split the road and home teams or whatever. I really don't think that's made such a huge difference. Vince has the people that he trusts, and those are the people that really have to say, yeah, very good. All right, Well let's go to the phone lines. We've got a lot of people on hold. Our phone number here is six four six seven one nine to two weight. I'm Wade Keller, hosts of the show today, I interview Friday. If you have any

check out my interview with Steve Austin. Over two hours of Steve Austin one hour free here on the live cast, another hour or so on the VIP after show that was two weeks ago, still available the first hour here at PW torchlivecast dot com. And you can still take advantage of our one dollar sale. It will be ending in just a couple of days, so take advantage of it now. One dollar to go VIP that will take you through January sixth if you sign up today, or January fifth. However, that

works out if you sign up today for one dollar. For details, just go to PW Torch dot com slash go VIP PW Torch dot com slash go VIP and then choose the one month VIP online subscription option. Normally it's ten dollars and enter coupon code Survivor sale all one word Survivors Sale. And we just put up yesterday the twenty years ago back issue. It was a midweek

special McMahon indicted. It was just over twenty years ago this week that n McMahon was indicted by the federal government on a very distribution of possession charges. We dedicated all twelve pages of the newsletter. It was to that indictment. People wonder what we're titan yet scandals about? What were the scandals about? What was that all about? Why did he get indicted? I went through the issue yesterday. I had looked at it in years, and I'm really

proud of that issue. A really good cover story detailing it, multiple page cover story, a great timeline going over month for a month, the whole history of vinsic Man and WWF and the scandals which newspapers covered it which wrestlers spoke out and what they said. I had a first runt interview with Phil Muschnick, who was one of the reporters out of New York who was really on vinsick Man in WWF during this time, and columns from Bruce Mitchell and

Chris eVisa. I wrote a endnotes column and oh man, it's just tons and tons of in depth analysis of what happened, including quotes from people in the industry in reaction to it, wrestlers and vincick Man himself and Jim Ross all responding to it. A fascinating, fascinating issue to read through. Absolutely just worth the three four minutes it will take to sign up for a book,

and you can download it on your tablet. We have a new tutorial now on an easy way and then the best way to view our newsletters, our new ones each week, and our back issues, our new pts from ten to twenty years ago on your tablet. More and more of you are getting tablets, iPads, Android tablets, Simpson galaxies, happen, all that

stuff. We've got tutorials now just step by step walking you through the best way to create a library of back issues on your tablet, so you can flip through the pages just like a magazine and see it in its original format. It's original kind of magazine hybrid newsletter format. So between Steve Austin and that back issue, a really good reason to go VIP PW Torch dot Com Flash Go VIP Survivor's sale is the coupon code. Wow that issue. That

back issue sounds like it was so much information at tom Steroids. Man. Yes, thanks Chris, and I gotta follow Steve Austin. Yeah, yeah, well last week. Last week was a good interview with John Piermarini, who's all those so lose? Piermarini cooled the crowd now a little. Yes, he was a popcorn he was popcorn pop for Chas and technically Matt Hardy, who was on for the first twenty minutes, was the popcorn match and Johnny Fairplay called up, so that makes it even more for the popcorn match

that they were promoting their their match. Johnny Fairplay managed Carleiitle last Saturday as a big restl Cade India event in Convention Saturday. Matt Hardy was Carlada's opponent and so not only did he get the preview with that last Friday, but had team members got Bruce Mitchell on Sunday spending a whole hour talking about that that event and everything that went down at that convention. With just a loaded

lineup. It was crazy how many stars of the nineties from the WWF early nineties were there, you know, Demolition, Powers of Pain, Rock and Roll Express on and on. Interesting show. So yeah, Matt. Last week was Matt Hardy with Johnny fair Play to want to run in on the Full Bright Yeah, and then John Piermarini and with John we talked about what Steve and I talked about on his show. I was on Steve Boston Show, by the way, people can look that up too. I was on

two weeks before Daniel Bryan and the Daniel Brian interviews great too. But Steve and I talked about scripting promos and the merits of it, and John Piermrini came on to kind of defend the need for writers for better or for worse in today's WWE with the talent they're working with, and we went in depth on that. So some good shows. You can support us on Patreon and

get these shows with ads and plugs. Remove the weight. Keller Prosing podcast, Weight Keller Prosing post shows and the PW Torch daily cast throughout the week with ads and plugs remove plus a few bonus VIP shows throughout the month for just four dollars and ninety nine cents a month, check it out patreon dot com slash PW torch VIP. That's patreon dot com slash PW torch VIP and you can also upgrade to other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon.

All right, let's let's jump to the phone bank. So let's let's begin with Eric code seven seven three. Thanks for holding it that. Oh, we do have a vite spress remember on hold two, so we'll go to you next seven seven three. Thanks calling. Please state your name and where you're from. Boris from Chicago. Bor. It's your first s up today. What have you got for us? I did do the VIP, yeah, just haven't had time to actually enjoy yet because I got that I worked

for the railroad. I got that WW schedule too. They called me yes tomorrow, so I actually want to sit down and actually play with it because I got an iPad all stuff like that. So maybe one of these days i'll get to throw it in there. I think the iPad, I can't actually use my device they work. I think the iPad. I think that brute boris. I think Torch vip is reason enough to buy an iPad. I mean like, and I say that, you know, as a salesman, partially, but I'm proud of what we doing. Pay but well,

no, it's great. But I'm saying if you don't have an iPad, and I know you do, just to access torch vip content at the audio and the PDF newsletters and our website looks great on it and it's easy to just you know, flip through everything. And I just I love I've got my I got a new iPad air and I've just been enjoying the VIP site on that. So I heard you say something about that, and I heard

you say something about the eyebook about the eyebooks. Well, the tutorial, the tutorial on the website explains how to load and it's oh, it's actually shouldn't even you don't even need a tutorial for it. Just when you when you log into the VP website and you click on the newsletter, it'll load up into but for a few seconds in the upper right corner. It asks if you want to open it in Eyebooks, and the answer is yes, because then it stores the issues. It does a thumbnail of every issue that

you that you store an eyebooks. So when you open up Eyebooks, you can have this whole library of Torch, Newfightters, new ones and all our whole library right there. And then you just tap on it and they come up and you can flip through the pages. You can pinsion zoom if you need to, and it just looks great at eyebooks, and you can do the same thing on edred tablets and the Google Play. I'm so deep. Yep you well, you're gonna have on the faget too. My thing is

with the network, I'm this is what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping if they do do it the way with you know, which is put it on the devices and stuff like Netflix, the restrain of the PG can be taken off and they can actually give us something unlike the you know what we see on TV. I would just, man, I would just take my money, you know that. That's the nice frist take my money. That's interesting,

boars Chris. That was the great points. Yeah, because they could have basically a button that you could push, Like when I go on Netflix, it's like, is it you Wade or is it your four year old son? You know, it's like, you know, we don't want to have separate libraries. Could wwe prompt you to go do you want a TV fourteen environment or do you want the PG environment? And their contents that's available? Could depend on what button you push, it really could. That would

that would be interesting. It sounds like a lot more man hours for them most well, you know, as far as the library goes, I guess they could just put their pre PG era content in the TV fourteen area on demand and then just make sure that you know, the Saturday Night's made events if they put those ever or the more the less eight years of PG era programming or however long it's been, you know, put that on the on the one that's PG and then obviously almost everybody would do PG fourteen anyway,

including the thirteen year olds, and so it really would matter. But at least they could tell sponsors where, you know, when parents were doing right by you even though everybody was just too fourteen. Yeah, I orts anything else for us? Yeah, I mean Austin, Yeah, go ahead. For Stone Cold made two versions of this podcast already, you know, and

I got both of him now. And I enjoyed the PG shows, which was way Wade was on the PZ suit because my first thought when I heard Wade was going to be on Stone Coach, I'm like, oh man, this is you know, because the way his show was, I'm like, I can't wait on that. Then I found out he had two shows. So Wade did on the PZ show, not be Unleashed. Who knows, maybe somebody else was awesome. And I hope that maybe maybe I'll go on Unleashed. Maybe next time I'll go on Unleashed and show you the side of

me that my friends know that the Torch people don't. I just swear up a storm. I want to see that. Oh the stories that I have one question, all right, yes for us, I have one question. If you heard Jim Ross's interview, which I did. I enjoyed it.

It was kind of like a relief to hear that, you know, his version of what we didn't hear about him, you know, leaving w W and him saying he was ready to you know, to trast on some different I want what do you feel about you know, after you heard the interview with Stone Coo, I think Jim Ross was ready to try something different, Chris, I want your insight on that. Are you surprised that Jim Ross

is no longer at all with WWE? In fact, in his blog this week, he said it was kind of a footnote, a little passive aggressive. He said, it's interesting who reaches out and who doesn't when they visit your hometown when you're no longer part of the company. You know, I'm telling you, I I guess I am surprised, just because you never think that that's ever gonna come. Jr and ww's relationship would have come to an

end. But at the same time, I'm not surprised because you know, I know how you know, Jim's counted, and he's got a lot of you know, things that he I'm sure would want to work on and and and do it his own, and he's probably made enough money from from me that you know, he got to a point where he's ready to move on. And it is it is. It doesn't surprise me in a way that they didn't that somebody wouldn't reach out to him. If that's exactly what happened.

But it doesn't surprise me, you know, because people around there can they can tend to be looking for a better word, but assholes. Uh yeah, it doesn't surprise me. But you know, I love Jim and and uh, I'm sure he's happy. I I am just amused because I looked at my Steve Austin show on iTunes and the podcast one screwed up. Somebody screwed up because after the Daniel Briant interview that came live on Tuesday. And maybe it's just my iTunes got screwed up, but this isn't a podcast

that subscribed to It's it says Daniel brian on Tuesday and on Wednesday. Uh, doctor Drew's one minute Clinic Doctor Drew discusses the issues of dang fever and urinary incontinence. That is now the Steve Boston Show feed. So I don't know if my computer went haywire or someone else can replicate that on their iTunes, but somebody, I don't know why, but there's a Doctor Drew show on the Steve Austin feed. That's very weird. Anyway, Let's let's move

from that to our next caller. And we'll go to Erico two two next two to two. Please stick your name and where you're from. Hey, how's it going for Washington? D see? And then you go to hear from you? What have you got for us? Hey? A few things I've been hearing about the new networker's supposed to come out next share and everything, and also her. I don't know how true it is that the contract with the USA supposed to be up so great. I pretty much report that

constantly. Yes, yeah, So I was wondering, all right, would they be getting like devil triple the money if they like renew with USA or could it be like a dark horse fighting made me like mixed waiting to snatch up the w cont Oh absolutely, Wwe holts and expects there to be at least two suitors who are very serious, and ideally a third one. You know that's really serious. I haven't heard that FX is in the mix,

but you know, I won't roll it out. I think their network, they try to be a little bit more highbrow than that, not quite to the AMC level, but I know they were excited to win USC signed with Fox that they would have some sports programming, But then Fox Sports one kind of took it away from them, So, I mean that's possibility, but I think it's more of the Fox Sports one or NBC Sports or these networks out there that are that are just dying to become relevant, and they would

take a show that draws five million plus every week and pay big money because that would mean survival of their network being carried by these cable systems where they get a you know, pretty much a flat fee for every subscriber, whether

they watch the channel or not. You need to make your channel must a channel that people demand on their cable systems, and WWE raw is to show that that people would demand Chris. How much do you think WWE values their relationship with NBC Universal and specifically USA network, And I mean it comes down to dollars and cents, But would you be surprised if they end up somewhere besides USA in twenty fifteen. I would be surprised if they ended up somewhere

else besides the USA. I know USA is happy with WWE. I know is happy with USA. Obviously, it does come down to dollars centric you're saying, so it would be chakra for me, But I mean, I know WW has a nice relationship with Blondie Hammer and I think that, you know, she's kind of moved up the ladder over there and has I think that I think that they're in to stay with NBC. Yeah, all right, let's go to our next call, or if you want to get on

the phone. Banks By the way, Christ Joseph X WWE creative team member from twenty four to twenty ten is our guest today on the PW torch Live Cast. You can find us on demand and live at PW torchlivecast dot com. That's PW torch live dot com. If you can't listen live, you can always find our shows on demand at that url. And if you want to subscribe to us in iTunes or follow us on Twitter or Facebook, the

links are all there at PW torchlivecast dot com. Our main website where people like Anthony can keep up on daily news, daily breaking news, including our story last night that James Caldele posted with details on the WWE network developments, the news of Stephani McMahon's new title, and live TV coverage, live pay per view reports, and just tons of news updates and exclusive features throughout the day. Every day seven days a week. Go to pwtorch dot com.

That is your headquarters to stay up to date on wrestling news. Visit it every day, including for the Ask PW Torch feature. We've got the Ask PW Torch All Star Panel and the s PW Torch Staff feature. The ASPW Torch Staff feature up every single day since the beginning of May. So a lot of reasons to visit PW torch dot com and of course our free app

PW Torch. Another way you can get a lot of our content. Every Sunday night, catch Wrestling Night in America on PW Torchdailycast dot com, hosted by me PW torchcolumnist Greg Parks. Each week I'll welcome a co host from the Torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails. You can listen live most week's beginning at eight pm Eastern On Sunday nights with a WWE or Impact pay per view, we go on the

air. At the conclusion of that pay per view, you can listen live, but of course the full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs. Visit PW Torchdailycast dot com and click the live stream link to find the next scheduled live show link. Search pw torch and Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe Wrestling Night in America every Sunday PW torchdailycast dot Com. Let's go to Eric go nine by four next, Thanks for holding

nine by four. Please state your name and where you're from. Damien from Florida. Hey, Damien, what have you got for to day? Hey? Guys, Happy Friday. Always wondering when, yeah, I always wondering when wrestlers drop names of previous legends or Michael Cole or jbl or Lawyer or whoever drops names or you know, list champions. Does Creative have like a blacklist? Because you know, I never hear some eighties guys like Hercules hernandez

Haku, Demolition Strikeforce, Don Morocco. I mean, why do some guys get chosen all the time. It's like the Associated Press where there's just like names you can mention. Or does Vince have an unofficial blacklist that you knew of? No, I think that's just that's just the announcer of doing their own research and naming off guys probably off the top of their heads or you know, in their notes having a list of certain guys. I don't think

it's a blacklist type thing. Could not name somebody, but then yeah, I just don't see that being an issue. Why yeah, Argul believes wouldn't be mentioned or somebody like that. But I've never been in an actual meeting between Vince Is the announcers before the show, so I couldn't really give you one hundred percent answer. But to me, I think, you know, the announcer's going to do their own research and go out there and call the

show. And yeah, I don't think that anything is purposely they're purposely trying to leave somebody out. Cool Now, Joey Styles said that he couldn't take like the buzzing in his ear when he was announcing. Do you know what they're doing that? I will say that again, you don't really know yet, Like is it really Stephanie and Vince in the back just like buzzing in the announcers of ears the whole show? Do you know? Yes, Yeah, Vince is talking to the answers the entire time, not only talking to

them, sometimes screaming at them. I know other people a lot of having a hard time dealing with it. Nick Foley even before back it was an issue. Pads said the same thing. He didn't like it in the past. Yeah, yeah, there's there's not. I'm sure Taz wanted to, you know, pune Vince in the face plenty of evenings. But yeah, it's uh, it's a thing that that happens there. I think maybe yeah, yeah, he's not Stephane, He's not doing that kind of yelling.

If Stephani is in england's here. But right now, I think the way it's set up now is that Vince is is uh is there on headset and I think the whoever the show runner of each show is is next to SnO throughout the show from what I've heard. And uh yeah. As far as the names you brought up, Damien like Hercule Turnette, it is just I don't think it would make the cut. I mean, I don't think he would be a guy that you would expect here from Don Morocco. I think

his name is mentioned on occasion. And you know, Demolition, you know, kind of depends on when you grew up and what you think, but I think Demolition deserve more attention. But I think that probably goes Damien to the to the anti tag team bias. I mean, you just unless somebody from a tag team becomes a single star like Heart Foundation or the Rockers, where there's a reason to bring them up again, I don't think it's typically

the culture there celebrates the history of tag team wrestling. I think that's part of why you maybe don't hear those tag teams. So do you think, like Chris, you don't think there's a conspiracy. You just think the announcers like they conditioned to forget them or not mention them, where they just keep going with the same names, or yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean I think like, like I know, Michael Cole is personally in wrestling him, so he's probably has certain guys in his head that he thinks of

and he probably spouts him out. I mean, I really don't. I don't think there's any kind of conspiracy whatsoever. Yeah, all right, Damien, appreciate it, you appreciate the call. Yeah, I don't appreciate it. I don't think there's I don't think it would take a conspiracy to keep her Elise Hernandez from being mentioned. You know, I would mention I wouldn't mention Hernandez. I remember in fact, way back and this was like right

in nineteen eighty six. That's on the phone with Jason Powell and we were going to go to a WWF house show and it was haulcog and defending against Hercules, and it was at that point it was, you know, nineteen eighty five, nineteen eighty six, and we're like, could this be where there's a title change? Could you know? The we talk ourselves into it. We'd like, I bet there's going to be cameras there. If there's cameras there, I bet they're going to finally do a title change, it'll

pop business. So you know, whatever terms we use back then, And we tried to talk ourselves into it, and then you know, it didn't happen. Hercules was one in a long line of victims. But boy did we try to talk ourselves into being able to witness the title change in person. Jason and I were held bent on seeing title changes in person at that point at house show. It was a different time. Huh, Yes, it was all right. Let's go to VIP member on the VIP Express line,

Eric code seven oh two. Thanks, this is Jeff. Please stay, Please confirm where you're from. I think we know character, not Jeff, j E B JEBB from Las Vegas? Are you doing? Wade doing good? Kick Johnson? Hey, y ball. Look around the internet and I see people trying to sneak across or p B towrks v IP content borders and the seeds to stop. It's not part of my real Peter b teorks vpno Margeria cloth plute, hand across your heart and the voice with me be

the VIP now, thank you very much. I want to know why there were so many roll up finishes from Raw That's week. It irritates me and then I've asked this question before, but it just drives me nuts. Why can't the superstars wait at least a second or two for the camera to raise up after they lose, so we don't see them getting pinned a three counts and then instantly getting up like nothing but they weren't hurt at all. Wow, that's just that's a detail that seems ridiculous. Jeff, I have heard,

and I'm curious if Chris has ever heard of this. I've heard that w w WEE wrestlers have been told after pinfalls don't sell that you're hurt. It's part of the Family Friendly of Stephanie McMahon's mission to make this the brand UH friendly for kids and their parents to watch together. They're trying to actually overtly keep their show keep so they're they're trying to make sure that it doesn't

seem like they're actually hurting people uh with these with these moves. I don't know, Chris, have you ever heard of that being in order before? And my time though has never known My time would I would imagine that they

would want them to sell, but I mean that wouldn't surprise me. And this is something I heard really recently, and this was a rolling that came down in a production meeting that all of a sudden, it's like, guys, this what we're not after the Pinfall going to get right up the Family Company, Yep, it's all about fun. We don't want anyone to think

anybody really gets hurt. We're just here to entertain and nev and I'm not not joking like that's that's I mean, that's why when they have hardcore matches, Chris, the announcers are giggling and chuckling and talking about the toys that they're using because they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to give hardcore fans fans are hardcore wrestling a weapons match, but they want to let the parents sitting there watching with their thirteen year old or eight

year old kids that it's all in fun. It's just toys and they're just doing it to entertain us. So I just fell fifteen feet awful ladder. That's how hoyous. I know it's awful. It's awful, and the announcers do that. If I'm a wrestler taking those bumps, I don't want that. Yeah, I didn't know that. That's that's if that is true. That is awful. It is awful, and it is a good observation from Jeb to notice. Do you remember Jeff's first question? No, I didn't

let me think for a second. He's still there, so I'll go back to him. I can't think, but this is I was wrapped up in the fact that Jeff's from me. That's all a hometown bride there. Yes, Okay, I'm about to give up, so I'm gonna go back to Jeb. Jebbo is your first topic? Yeah, my first topic was there was only any finishes from row. It was like a roll up app Yeah, I mean, from all what you just said, it's not ridiculous.

It's so ridiculous that they make the superstars get up so quickly because it is the business of wrestling. But now they're spending their time with these ridiculous roll up finishes. I don't understand. It just makes it even stupider. Yeah, no, it's I was just irriteated the whole time. It's gonna You would think that the roll up finishes would have been discussed between the agent slash now producers to try to Usually they try to make all the finishes somewhat different

from one another. So that's just a strange thing that there was a bunch of roll ups. I didn't get to catch the whole show, so I'm not really one hundred percent sure, but I can only I can imagine. It's It's interesting because I mean, I talk about this on the VIP side all the time. Uh lately, how WWE is there's so much now about not serving the fans, and they're not even a wrestling company. They are a prey. They present a pro wrestling like entertainment product, but they just

present it. They're not really promoting fights. They're presenting it and I called it earlier it's like cheese with It's like it's not really cheese. It's sort of this cheese product. And WWE isn't pro wrestling anymore. It's a pro wrestling like product, and so the rules don't apply. That applied for all the decades to pro wrestling more than a century, which is you know, very up the finishes. You're hurting people so that they can't get up,

and that's how you're able to score pinfall. Like they're so into Chris serving corporate interests and being trying to be all things to all people in this family friendly brand of entertainment that just sort of happens to promote wrestling that we just

giggle through. It's I mean, Jeb is not alone. It's I mean, I talk all the time on the VIP side on my hotline the business reasons, and it's very it's very overt, I mean, and it's more so since you've been since you've left Chris, it seems to have been become exponentially more like this. Yeah. Wow, it's it's a shame. Man's

a wrestling fan. That's you know, that sucks. You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, and it will also analyze key segments and give my random thoughts quips on

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Well there's you know, people say, well, you know, times change, and I'm like, you know, there's some things that just makes sense no matter what era you're in, and there are things that don't make sense no matter what ara you're in. And it's just at some point WWE needs to realize or will go so far that they'll just cease to be recognized by the core fans for what brought made those people core fans in the first place.

Right, Yeah, that's what we just say when we were When when I was there, we used to always say that, like, yeah, you know, sometimes you're like, why can't we why is this in the w W. Why don't we just embrace the fact that we do wrestling and we're the best at it. Yeah, you know, that's the one thing we used to always say. We trying to fight to be something other than that. But I do get some aspects of it and trying to make it

that way. But as far as just changing the way the thing is things are done, is that that fact it just makes it takes away from the storytelling, in my opinion, and and takes away from you, the audience caring and investing in those matches that you want to believe are real. You know exactly. When I was interviewed at Steve Bustin on his show, I said that there was and I like the way this came out the way I

explained because I'd never really been able to put words to it before. Like this, But there was a pact that's existed between fans and wrestling promoters and wrestlers for decades and decades and decades, and that pact is we know, as a promoter and wrestler that you're aware that this isn't completely on the up and up and to varying degrees. And that's been true over the decades, I mean always, There's always been suspicion, going back to the thirties.

You know, Vincent Man talked about it in the in the fifties to the Washington newspaper going no, we're just I mean he essentially said, we're just out there to entertain. It's not real competition. It's not like this was some big thing that came out in the eighties that I never been said before. Fans have always been skeptical, no matter how realistic more realistic it was

fifty years ago. But the pact was wrestling promoters would throw that in your that during the show, from opening closing credits, from the opening bell to the closing bell. They do everything they could to make it as realistic as

possible while still keeping it somewhat entertaining. So it wasn't just you know, a snowsfest and the fans would play along, and there was a pack in WWE is breaking that packed with the term sports entertainer and giggling through hardcore matches and having announcers laugh and say it's toys that they're using when they're bashing each other. I think they're breaking that packed, and I think it will have a destructive effect on the ability to sell to draw people in emotionally, so

they're immersed in want to see fights? Right, yeah, all right, breaking the fours wall exactly. Yeah, Well, that's a Hollywood term. I wish they'd learned, you know, because that's a pack that movies and TV shows have that WWE is ignoring. Their show runners should know better. All right, let's go next to uh, three one nine. You're showing up twice here. I don't know how three one nine. Please state your name and where you're from. I'm gonna I'm gonna open up. Is everyone

is Andrew from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Andrew? What have you got for us? All right? Andrew? Real quick? Whose idea was it? Joe? Who's the idea? Was it? For you? To be the big, fat, oily guy? Well, we don't have a Joe with us. But Chris, do you want to answer that that's your name? Who's that? I was not the big fat o leaguey. I was big big Johnson. Yeah yeah, tn A had DNA had big fat oily guy.

The idea was it was not mine. How about that? It was a culmination of I think Brian Gortz and Triple h and and a little bit of Bruce Pritty. I think it was. I was thinking it was Vince because he had it was not it was not I almost cut Now, did Vince Chris? Hold on? Hold on? Andrew? Did Vince like it? Did he cackle? Did he think of? He loved it for a while, and then you know, I think he excused me of bad acting a few times. It's like, what do you want me to do?

Okay, you want me to go out there and be a shake You want me to be an actor? Do you want me to be an asshole? It was half naked scorting baby at a lovel man, and I'm gonna steps in that character half. I grew with that. What was expected. It's a zady over the top. You know, you'd be like he was telling God, you know he would have me like put me in like little scenes or stuff like that, God dam or so over the top. It's like,

well, what where where do I go from here? I mean, I'm I'm I'm half naked, dude, like more than half yeah, yeah, like almost naked, like holy Like, I mean, come on here. I'm like, I'm like, I'm putting it out there for you. So go yeah, come on man, Yeah, Okay, go ahead, edreh Awful all right. I was gonna ask about the Slammys, but it's gonna be pretty big on Monday, So I was just gonna ask about, like the Match of the Year. What are your guys' thoughts on it?

Chris, what do you think will be Match of the Year. I just assume Rock Scene, WrestleMania. The nominees right now is Rock and Rock and Seena, Undertaker Punk and what else was there? The Cody Rhodes match at Battleground, and then there's Triple H and Lesner. Yeah, it should be seen a rock I mean, because to me, match of the Year in the context of the ww award should be the match that was the headline match that meant the most, that was pretty good with big time stars. That

will be remembered historically that wasn't you know. I mean it was a rematch, whereas you know, Punk Undertaker wasn't. But I don't think a punk Undertaker blew away people so much so that it takes the lead over Rock and what might be his final match. And yeah, the tag match was better probably than all of them, you know, from an exciting entertainment standpoint, But in Triple h Lesner, I don't think is in that in that conversation,

So that's my take on it. How about you, Chris? Yeah, yeah, I mean as far as I mean, it's a voted on thing, right, so yeah, I think then yeah, definitely Rock Sina wins that one. Yeah, and or anything else for us, I got one more thing to continue our conversation about, like calling wrestling sports entertainment. And the only thing I have a problem with is when they lie about history. Like a few weeks ago, they had the Three Faces of Fully and

they said Dude, love Mankind and Mick Foley. They didn't bring up Cactus Jack. I understand why they did it because of the PG family friendly environment, but it's like, if you're gonna lie about history, it's like if you're going to bring up history at least tell the truth about it. Yeah, I can see that, buggin people. I don't know that Cactus Jack was necessarily not PG. I mean Cactus Jack in WW was. It was

a PG product. He was known for really good promos and just being a little bit off kilter in the running elbow off the ring apron that mix. Foley pays a price for every day now in his forties. But yeah, I don't know that. I mean like that that was probably an error or something like that, because I just don't I don't see why did. They

had a little video. They had a little video on ww dot com and they showed Mick Foley, Dude Love, and Mankind and they refer to them as the three faces of Foley. Yeah, I think Andrew, I just I think what the asked two with is Vincent create the character, you know, I mean, catchus MI mcfuley came up with Catus Jack. Now it's a w W that was a Global Wrestling Federation gimmick that was on the indie

scene. I saw a match between him and Eddie Gilbert h three falls or three match best of three match series in Philadelphia Freedom Hall back before he's w existed and he was Cactus Jack then, So I just think it has to do with Vince just deciding to promote the history and the names that he owns. That makes sense to Yeah, all right, cool, Andrew, Thanks calling. Good to hear from me. Hey, you're welcome. Hen, I'm sorry, have a what I'm gonna say? You're welcome and happy holidays.

Happy holidays? Then very good? All right. Oh, by the way, next week, next week is Sean Waltman XPOC be on the show. Looking forward to that. It's it's been too long. I think it's been four months or so since he's been on. We try to have him on every three or four months, So looking forward to that and to get his take on all the stuff we're talking about today and all the stuff we've been talking about every day on the VIP side of things too. It's a

fascinating time to be following this wrestling industry. I know, frustrating, and I know RAW has been better and less of a marathon, but just stepping back and watching where this industry is going and kind of seeing the changes in play. Fascinating time. A lot of big news on TNA too, which I got into on My Way Keller hotline yesterday for VIP members with AJ Styles

and his future in that company. Jeff Hardy, by the way we've learned, is announced in this one aar until January, but at last night's taping announced that he's done with TNA. I did check around and heard that that's probably storyline and it's probably going to be part of as if they can resign

AJ Styles, it'll be part of. And I'm just speculating here. Jeff Jarrett making his return to TV as the counterbalance, bringing in a cavalcade of main event wrestlers to offset Dixie Carter, who has taken TNA off off the tracks. But I will just you go ahay, Chris, and you gotta love double jam man Yep, Well you don't have to, but you can. Yeah, so we may have. It'll be interesting. I'm I'm. My sources are telling me Jeff Hardy is not done with the company and that

that's storyline. So those who are panicked and worried about that are Jeff Hardy fans. You connect at that. But a lot more details on everything going on to TNA and their future and how the stuff at WW affects them on I think a thirty five minute way Teller outline yesterday covering all these big topics. It was a it's a big news week as we head into twenty fourteen. All right, let's go next to Erico. Two oh three. It's always fun. Two oh three. Please state your name and where you're from.

Two three in trouble here and yeah, I don't know if you're two or three. If you can talk into a microphone, I don't know what's going on, but you're really echoey two three there, yeah, Connecticut. All right, Well, if you're trying to do some sort of bluetooth chemick whatever, just give us a call back. I'll prioritize your call. Longing

for some misstown or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history. Don't miss the Nineties Past Cast Every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed, Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties Past. Cast every Friday on the

PW Torch Daily Cast feed. Let's go to six six one, next, six six one. Thanks for holding Please state to your name and where you're from. Hi. My name is Brian. Hey Brian, what have you done? Hey, Brian, I was wondering if you ever had herv mush nikon if you're planning on interviewing him about the Chris Benwas stuff. We have had her offline, Yeah, we've had We've had her much Nekon for sure.

Yep. In fact, I've done a lot of communication with him during the whole Bendwa story, and he was a guest on this very show, which you can probably find out peab towards livecast dot com if you look it up. Did you tell him that you didn't believe the Wikipedia thing and you thought it was disputed and it was a lie. No? No, Brian, Brian, hold on, I'm going to just talk because I even saw your YouTube clip. I want to clarify because I think you misunderstood the conspiracy

aspect of it. It seems pretty clear that you have, and maybe that's why you're so angry about this. I'm not saying that that news people didn't report that Wikipedia, that there was a report of Chris Benwa's death before his body was found on Wikipedia, and I should have been clear with that, and that probably is what led to the led you being frustrated by me. That is a fact. That's a fact. When I use a term of

conspiracy theory, maybe that term is overused. What I mean is is that there was knowledge in Connecticut of Chris Benoi dying under circumstances that are a difference than the official story that every prosecutor came to in that when investigating that case. What I mean as a conspiracy is that it was more than a guy who had a connection to somebody who heard Chris Benwa. People were Chris Bano had fallen out of touch and he decided to guess that Chris Benwa was dead.

And you're looking into it now and reading all these old stories. What is most compelling to you and what is your theory based on reading about this? Because I'm not I never was disputing and I feel bad if you thought that that that there was a Wikipedia report that Chris Benwa died or was dead before people knew that he was dead on Monday. That we know, but people who did study this and followed it day to day and saw every single

detail and were immersed like I was uncovering this. Wrote that off as an amazing, crazy guess based on perhaps some information that Benoa wasn't returning people's calls and people plug up Wikipedia pages with information all the time. This is just one of those times that it turned out right, you know. I mean, I can guess that a celebrity is going to die and be right if I do it every day for a while. So anyway, Jeff, Brian

and don't don't and Brian hold on. I don't want you to be angry with me, and I don't want you to take the tone that you take

because I do want to have a discussion with you on it. But I and I know you didn't like it when I said learn more about it than just this, because there's so much more to learn about it, and I think when you get the complete picture, you realize there's an overwhelming amount of information that just kind of points towards This is a weird, weird, weird coincidence that this guy guessed right a day before ben Want's body was found.

Go ahead, the floor is yours for a minute, Mushnik also said there was another post from Australia right around the same time that changed the Wikipedia page, and that kid also went in and cleared up child Tho's web page that night, which the police never questioned him about. This is all from Mushnik, and he also said the next day when the police shut up at Ben's house, that there was two wrestlers there that were working for WWS at the

time. So who are those guys at beuse Ben Wah's house already when the police got there. Wait, when did you have a whole chapter on it? No, No, I know. I talked to her regularly. I email with her regularly. He's been on the show. I'm not trust me. I'm not part of some Oh there's there's a story out there and the torches trying to cover it up. I was nobody was more interested in all of these things. This was what you're bringing up is one of a dozen

or two dozen weird, amazing, crazy things that were out there. There's conspiracy theories that Kevin Sullivan had Chris Benwock killed because he stole his wife. And there's an amazingly compelling forty page story on the internet. If you look for it that when you're done reading it, you're absolutely convinced that Kevin Sullivan murdered Chris Benwah. But then when you learn all the other facts that are not that are much, that are just kind of more plane and obvious I

should say pain and obvious. I'm trying to think of the right wordinger that are more documented and verifiable and official, that don't seem suspicious. It just you start to kind of find yourself going back to the most obvious story is the right story. But it's a fascinating thing, Brian. I didn't mean when I said, go vip, I want a dollar. I want you to spend ten dollars or a dollar. It wasn't like that makes a difference

in my life. I really meant that, because I'm not going to take five hours out of my life and send you every audio show on every back issue I did for sixty days when my life stopped and every weeking moment was covering the story. But you sound passionately interested in this, and you've clung to one of the most sensationalistic aspects of it, and it's fascinating, And we did cover this, and it's on the vip side, and we covered it in depth in our audio shows. When this story came out, we

talked all about travel, we talked about the Wikipedia page. It was all fresh in my mind then, and it's all there for you. If you care about this subject like you do, you call the show, you put up a YouTube video bashing me because of the way I answered your questions. You have passion for this. You're not gonna find more in depth coverage, including in any book, than what we did at the time. It'll just so. That's why I said that. And I don't know if you've done

it or not. I don't care if I get your ten dollars or not. But I'm not going to take time out of my day to send you everything we did. If you care about this story, educate yourself and inform yourself on every dimension of this and then come back to me and we can have a conversation about every aspect of the story, not just this Wikipedia thing, which I know is fascinating and there may be things out there that should be more talked about and should be uncovered. It's not part of my day

to day job right now. I'm pretty satisfied with where our coverage left off when we did end up coverage, and Brian, you call it into your Friday. I wish you would call on a day when we didn't have a guest, because the reason that you think I'm blowing you off is this is a time for guests, not a time to talk to talk about a story that's the soul. That's what other days of the week are for when we don't have guests. And I've given you more time than I think is fair

to our guest, Chris to Joseph's day. So I'll give you a couple seconds to wrap up, and then I'm gonna go to Chris on this and then and then we're gonna move on. Yeah. I just wanted to know what you thought of that Wikipedia thing, if you thought it was a coincidence, because Mushnik takes the exact opposite, since the WWE had people stationed at Ben Walla's house the next day when the police showed up. I never heard

you mentioned that. Did you read my coverage? Weird dude, Brian, Brian, WWE has a timeline, yeah, and none of this other stuff falls into their timeline. Brian. I just I know you don't like when I say this, but over that. No, No, I'm not I immerger there is? Did you? I mean you haven't got you haven't signed up for a dollar to go VIP and immerse yourself in our coverage. I assume that's the case based on your questioning of this. Why I read Mushnik's

book. It's online, and I read everything. I read all the mainstream stuff, the same place you got your information. But the thing is, that's a word you get your information from. Since you got it from the mainstream news. Do you want to know who was calling me every day during that story? The reporters. Yes. So if I mean, I'm not sitting here trying to PA I'm not trying to sit here and boo boost my position here. But if you go through the Torch coverage at that time and

our audio shows, you'll hear me reference. Hey, yeah, today, this newspaper reporter called me and this is what we had to say. Today. This producer with this twenty four our news network called me, and I spent an hour on the phone trying to talk them through these details and help them make sense of it. I think you kind of have it backwards.

When these big stories break and I don't know. I mean again, I don't know how to say this without sounding egotistical, Brian, but I'm one of the go to people for notespaper reporters who cover one story one week and then they move on to another one another week. I covered this eighty hours a week for six eight weeks after this happened, and those people were coming to me for interpreting and trying to make sense of this crazy story. So

I appreciate you listening to the show. I see your passion for it. If you're going to refuse to spend a dollar and go read coverage that, trust me, is more immersively covering every detail of the story than even IRV Muchnick did in his book. With all the respect to IRV, who put a lot of time into us, I don't know that we need to have

a conversation. You can go have it with with with other people who want to entertain somebody who's read cursory mainstream media articles and uh and what Earth had to say and did some really good work on this. So anyway, that's Chris. Chris, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. This guy called and I've blown him off a couple of times and he's been on a rant on YouTube about it, so I wanted to give him more time today. Well I'm running I'm running out of time myself here. I know you are.

Yeah, and and I just I wanted to just say to this dud's like, all right. First of all, Chrispin Law killed his wife and his child and that's the bottom line. Kid. I don't know. I feel like he's like looking into conspiracies and all sorts of things like that. Like, dude, that's what happened. Yeah, it's over with. It's been over with. Get over it, bro. And and Chris and you were there, what about do you remember anything about the Wikipedia page and the

reaction. I'll tell you something. The night the night that I heard Chrispin when Christina didn't show up to the pay per viewed, the first thing that's in my head was that he was dead. So I don't think that's crazy that somebody would put that, right, Yeah, I mean that's the thing is somebody in Connecticut heard and it might have been through a Chavo or a friend of Chavo. Hey, we can't get old to chris and he's not

here on time. In the afternoon before the pay per view and with I mean it just it was just one of those lucky guesses and people are running with it. And yeah, Chris, I apologize. I mean I was

just this literally, this guy's been kind of I don't know. Well, that's and that's what for us. Somebody discovers something new years and years after the fact, and they brushed up on some cursory, surface level mainstream news stories and get fascinated, and they don't go to the source of all this stuff for spend a buck and go BP and just immerse himself in this information. It's just it's hard for me to take him seriously, but I wanted

to givehim a little more time because I did think he misunderstood me. Uh, Chris and any times limited? Do you have five more minutes? Or should we or do you gotta go now? And I well, I've got I've given me five more minutes. Hopefully nobody calls him in questions who killed Femo? Bromvo very good. We actually had the authors of Mad Dogs and Midget's History Montrelle Wrestling about a month ago and we talked Bruce Mitchell and I

talked in depth with them about that story. So that was that was fascinating too, Dino Bravo shot in his living room through a window by a drive by shooting of fascinating Tony Gria. Yes, well there was no Wikipedia back then, so something all right, I'm sure, I'm sure, Brian will. We'll be posting that conversation on YouTube with a bunch of graphics talking about how I'm part of some sort of conspiracy cover up or something. So anyways, you are you are a Wade? Yeah, you know, I know

it, Yes, exactly. Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next level with a VIP membership. Get shows like this, the Way Killer Prosing Podcast, Way Killer Prosing Post Show, and the pw Torch daily casts on our pw Torch VIP podcast feed with ads and plugs removed from the

shows for a streamlined listening experience. And also hear the VIP exclusive shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin, Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin's signature VIP series that you're missing out without a VIP membership, So go vip here in twenty twenty two and enjoy all the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad free listening Experience PW Torch dot Com, slash go vi IP. All right, let's go to you on thick.

Don't on thank you only go on go on say shaming where you're from? Stars? Jackman, Hey, sorry, I thought I gave you the blues with Tripleation when I first got on with Ge. The question I have missed the Joseph is during your time frame and up to the current at the storyline with Dave, Brian Win and losing the bell. What it been something that you guys will try to pushing a pull through because today we could just like kind of far Fitch if a story when somebody become a world champion. I

don't think that's right, but would it would ever be something? You were? Right? That's all I really had. All Right, Coolkat, Thanks, I couldn't completely hear on you. Yeah, you know what I'm gonna I'm gonna save that conversation for the VP after show, which we're gonna go to right now. We're gonna give VIP members just a couple of minutes of

VPP exclusive content because I know your time limited to stay Chris. When we knew that going in, which is all the more reason Brian frustrate, frustrated me today, But let's play the music. PW Torch dot com slash go vip. It's one dollar twenty six years of my professional life immediately accessible to you. New content all the time, twenty years ago radio shows, ten years ago audio shows, new way Keller hotline every single day. Check it out. Just go to PW torch dot com slash go vip. Learn all

about the Chris Vnwass situation. Also the vinsick Man and dieted issue from twenty years ago, including all the follow up on our trial coverage. All you have to do is enter the coupon code Survivors Sale when you choose the one month VIP option. Thank you everybody for listening to the show. We love all of you for supporting us and making us such a success here at blog talk Radio. We will be back on Monday. Bruce Mitchell and Travis Bryant.

Will I invite Brian to give them a call because I would love to have Bruce and Travis talk to Brian about this one. So Brian give them a call on Monday. Christ Joseph, thank you very much. On the other side of the music, just two quick topics, two or three quick topics that we'll end for the day for VPPU members. All right, Chris, we're now in the vpp after show portion of the show coming up at Now I can finally talk about how we know the truth about what really happened.

That's right, Yes, thank you for saying that. Now that we're on the VIP side, you can tell me the real truth about what happened with Chris benwa hear that, Brian, thank you for using blog talk radios. Goodbye. And I don't mean, I don't mean to laugh at Brian Chris, because I mean, if you're clicking around the Internet, you're curious, and all of a sudden you see this and you're like, why does you know? I'm gonna call up laid Keller and you can tell me about

this. And he thought I kind of blew him off and said, oh, that's a conspiracy theories on Wikipedia, and it's like, no, I know he's on Wikipedia. I'm just saying we all everybody was immersed in the story kind of wrote it off as somebody in Connecticut kind of got tipped off that he was missing and they guessed that he was dead. And if you know, a lot about the story. That's kind of you know, I mean there's some there's I'm not closing the book entirely on it, and I'm

all for people looking into it and seeing if there's some evidence. But nobody who studied this thought, yeah, this is you know that there's enough evidence here to spend a lot of time, a lot more time on it. But it's a fascinating story, and earth Mushing did a lot of work on it, so I agree. I just wish I didn't have to waste twenty minutes so it's listening to it. I don't blame it, Honestly, I

apologize for that. I when I heard his voice, I'm like, oh God, do I blow him off again and end up on YouTube or do I try to give him those second Yes? Yeah, PLC coming up orton against Sena. Were you surprised when they announced Chris they're going to apparently unify the titles. I was pretty surprised about that. I don't know how the tourist system where they saw smacked the SmackDown touring or Rod Tory stop calling it

by brand. Yeah yeah, so yeah, I mean that Mase from men, They're kind of gone back to the way things were, and then I personally, as a fan, I'd be like the unification of the titles was really a men' come on, what's the point. It just doesn't make sense and it kind of really waters down the products. Now, they promised there's gonna be one person walking out with both belts, but they have been cute

with their language before. You know, Triple H's like, nobody will interfere in the match, but you know, at the last pay per view, then nobody did interfere. It's just Triple H and Sephany walked out and distracted big show and that led to, you know, the finish, And so

they've been kind of cute with their language before. So I'm watching the way they're talking about this, and they're not saying they're guaranteeing John Cena or Brandy Orton will walk with walk out with both belts, which they could easily say. It'd be the logical thing to say. They're saying, very specifically repeatedly someone they're guaranteeing someone to walk out with both belts. My theory, which I threw out as an absurd, sarcastic comment two weeks ago, was my

prediction mis Triple H win. Yeah, he's gonna walk in, tip over the ladder, scene it or get knocked out, or Triple H and scene and get knocked out. Triple H says, we can't have another finish of a pay per view without a winner. I'm declaring myself eligible climbing the ladder. I am the true face of the company. Do you see that as a possibility? Absolutely? Okay, wow, Okay, that's as a possibility.

And do you like it about this? I do? I mean there's other things I've been thinking that somehow seen that they screw over Orton and seen a walk out with those titles. I don't know, I'll just scenarios have I've kind of played in my mind. So I definitely think the wording is there for a reason. And this is a storyline that's not ending anytime soon, so I would not expect conclusive, you know, finish without some kind

of controversy out of this. Uh from KLC. And do you think Triple H against John Seen is a logical WrestleMania thirty main event if something like that happens one way or the other. I do think that that is definitely a very logical. Yeah. And then brock Lesner Undertaker makes sense? And then how about how about as far as Randy Orton or see I'm Punk and Daniel Brian goes. Have you put that into where you think they land at Mania thirty. I mean, I would personally like to see Punks versus Brian,

but I don't know if that's going to happen. But that was that that's where I'd like to ship. Yeah, obviously, obviously I'd like to also see Hungk versus Austin, but I don't know. I didn't get to talk to Steve Austin, so maybe you asked him that I did, and he said he's not He's not wrestling at Mania thirty. He said it would be. He said that it would be a shot in the dark. He has a lot of things scheduled, he made. He sounded like, if I've come back, I'm going to train, I'm going to do it right.

I'm gonna take bumps for six weeks in the rain to get ready. I'm going to have to clear my schedule. And he says he's got a lot of things he likes that he's doing, and it's just it doesn't sound at all like thirty is his ear is Hogan going to come back to WrestleMania away? Well, I think so, yeah, I mean I think it's you know, fifty eight percent chance. And then Wrestlming twenty five we were also procl that could happen. How close? How close did that come to happening?

Very close? Yeah, like like we had planned the whole year around that, and uh yeah, just kind of what happened instead? And what happened? Oh yeah, what happened instead of that? Was it like a triple thread or something like that? Yeah, like DRIs Big Show Versina. Yeah, and it's so what what what do you remember about the Hogan deal falling through? Oh? I do you remember that? You know that there was negotiation and Hogan, Hogan was in on it, and Sina was in

for it. It was it was a go. And then I don't know how. I just remember one days telling us that it wasn't happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Scena Edge in Big Show and then Triple Ah Randy Orton was main event. That was the Undertaker Shawn Michael's match where where we said we want an undertaker, so Michaels to end the show. Everybody pushed for it, pushed for it, but uh, that didn't went out.

Why not? I believe that that Triple H had a little bit to do with that, and that the that the w W match should be the final match of you know, yeah, despite Undertaker, Sean and Michael Hayes going to events and and and you know, numerous you know, creative people, writers producers saying that they think Taker and Seawan should do it, and they didn't put on last, and Taker and Sean stole the show a little bit too early, they did. I bet it was motivating for him. Oh

absolutely. I think that was definitely a motivating factor for those guys. And you know, but you have to give it to Triple H. I mean, he is so selfless, you know, whether he was in that match or not, you know, he'd been pushing for the title to be protected and put him last. You know that that he's looking out for the long term legacy. W W didn't nothing to do with him being in the main

event, right, Oh. Absolutely, absolutely. He thinks that the heat out of the title should be positioned as the last match of the and and it was hard Dart. I mean, there was a there was a bunch of supporters on Triple A's side. I just I was personally invested I think in the Shawn uh Undertaker match from from a work standpoint, and I literally believe that Shawn Michael is a grist rest of all time. So I said, he's gonna steal, He's gonna kind of had a feeling about it,

so it was. It was an amazing match, one of my favorite. Yeah, Chris, thank you so much. It's just always great to have you on the show. Sorry for I'm dealing with Brian, uh, but you have to deal with another Brian for a long time. So yeah, that's that's bad. That's bad transition, not not not my smoothest moment, but whatever. Uh. People can follow you at it's a crazy Twitter handle, but at christ Joseph right, Yeah, yeah, I've got a crazy

Twitter handle. It's my name. Yeah, yeah. By should I have something like like like really like crazy or like you know, like you should be the Christ to Joseph or you should be it was like real real Christian Joseph or r c J. Big Dick Johnson or do you want big job. I mean, that's not something you want to be associated with for the rest of your life, especially especially when you have a professional career that you're involved. They work in. You know, it's like I'll tell you sometimes

you know something I like to go in. But it has actually helped me get some jobs. People are are interested, like, hell, I was looking up your reason. Man, I come across a video. Can you explain it? Usually? Yeah, it happens, unfortunately. Yeah, well, internet lives forever. It's the thing. I mean, you just like the torch, you know, you've got all those things. Fans can access it forever now. Yeah, so, Brian Kenneth, you want to spend

a dollar. But apparently, apparently that lady who wrote a story for the New York Daily News after talking to me for two hours is more authoritative than than me. So can he can read the New York Daily News? And well, I got to go before I get fired. So thanks, no, no, let's talk some more. Let's let's let's make news here, all right, Thanks Chris, I thank you for staying around, appreciate your insight on all these topics of great week. Tab you on, and hopefully

we can do it again in twenty fourteen. Okay, but thanks man, Happy Holadays invite you to email the show with feedback or questions or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at petewtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us on Twitter at pw torch and follow me at the Wade Keller That's

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