INTERVIEW CLASSIC (10 YRS AGO): Nick Aldis expresses his ambition and frustrations, thoughts on Bischoff, Hogan, Dixie, future

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I don't know if he aspires to wrestle more or would rather be a wrestler rather than in a suit playing the role of an executive, but I think he's had a pretty good stretch of time and landed in a pretty good place. So let's get to it. Here are his thoughts on his career up to that point. It originally live streamed on July fifteenth, twenty fifteen, and it is today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast Interview Classic for Saturday, July twelfth, twenty twenty five. Welcome to dp

w Torch Live Cast. I am Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch weekly newsletter since nineteen eighty seven, and also pwtorch dot com, the website and the free pw torch app available in the Apple App Store and androids Google Play Store.

this question a lot too. You do not have to listen live to hear our show, so if you do listen live, obviously you can listen on demand later. If you listen on demand, we welcome live listeners, especially if you participate with phone calls and you contribute to the program. Today's guest, and it is Wednesday, July fifteenth, twenty fifteen, is going to be Magnus also known as well my real name Nick all this, so Magnus from TNA will

be joining me momentarily here on the PW Torch live cast. First, I want to take a moment to thank Bruce Mitchell for filling in for me.

haven't heard it yet. Bruce talked also about a tremendous weekend that I had over the weekend with UH in Waterloo, Iowa at the Dan Gable Wrestling Museum and the George Tragels Luths Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame ceremony. I was inducted into the Hall of Fame with the Jim Melby Excellence in Wrestling Reporting Award. It was a great honor to be part of that weekend and UH and UH, I just I can't, I can't say enough about what

a tremendous experience that was. And so many, so many people that I met who I had corresponded with over the years, so many Torch readers. It was great meeting uh, Jim Melby's daughter, and I mean the table of dignitaries that we were that I was able to Bruce and I were able to enjoy the company of during the Hall of Fame banquet on Saturday was amazing, I mean

truly amazing. So I just think all all of you PW Torch Life Cast listeners and the pros and Torchs newsletter subscribers and PW Torch VIP members for coming up and saying hi. I know a few of you said specifically you drove or flew out just to see my induction, So thank you. It was a culmination of nearly twenty eight years of hard work and dedication and a lot

of help from a lot of people. Jim Melby, whom the Journalism Award is named after, was one of the early people when I started the newsletter who corresponded with me were fellow Minisodans, and he offered me help, offered to help me with with history or contacts. There were so many people who are generous, and Jim Melby was among them, a historian and somebody who I got to know a lot better through a really nice conversation with his daughter that Bruce Mitchell and I had after the

Hall of Fame ceremony on Saturday night. Another you know that Dan Gable Wrestling Museum in Waterloo, Iowa should be on every pro wrestling fan, every prossing fans bucket list, every wrestler's bucket list. What an amazing job Kyle Klingman, the director of the museum, and everybody involved in that have done over the past dozen or so years putting together a tremendous museum.

Friday and also weekends by appointment. And I will say this, Waterloo's probably not on most people's top ten list of places to visit in the United States on a vacation. But if you're a pro wrestling fan and it's centrally located and it's a nice small town, I mean there's some great The Laughing Tree Cafe with organic farm to table options was really progressive and the woman who runs that he lives was just fantastic. Makes homemade hummus and

homemade red lentil soup. And I know Bruce liked the chicken sandwich that he got. And then there's a great Thai restaurant, a great Italian restaurant on Newman's Paradise. Cafe is vintage and has great breakfast food. The Ramadas staff were tremendous and accommodating. It's just it's a cool place to spend a day or two or three days. Their next convention, I believe, is July fourteenth through sixteenth next year, and I am going to become an advocate for spreading

the word about this museum it deserves. I think it deserves more tension than it gets, at least from the torch, and it will get that going forward. I was very impressed by everything and everybody. It was great to meet Larry the x Henning. When I walked up to him and introduced myself and shook hands, he made my night by saying, You've got a pretty strong handshake for a tull skinny guy.

the first wrestling show I ever saw in person. May tenth, nineteen eighty one at the Saint pal Civic Center Old Time Atmosphere, vern Gania against Nick Bockwinkle, a WA Heavyweight Championship match main event, The Crusher against Jesse the Body Mantura in a posed down Kurt Henning against Adrian Adonis before he was adorable, This was when he was a tough Brooklyn guy. If Kurt could last ten minutes with Adrian, Larry the Axe got five minutes with Adrian to beat

him up. Baron von Rashki against Big John Studd and a Lose Release Town match. Baron won, Big John Studd lost, And boy didn't make an impression on me that Big John Studd cried on his way out of the ring. He was so sad that he had to leave town and that Baron beat him. Despite skeptics, this ten year old thought wrestling had to be real. Actually I think it was nine going on ted that this nine year old dot Wrestling had to be real if if John

stud was crying over losing a match. So anyway, very special week I wrote an article in this week's Progressing Torch newsletter detailing the whole experience, the whole weekend, and Kurt Angle was there to accept for a special ceremony to accept a ring for some of his accomplishments. Dan Gable, one of the greatest athletes of all time in any sport, was also present and I just I was thrilled to meet him and get my picture taken with him. You can see photos from the weekend. I put a ton

up on my Facebook page. You can just search Wade Keller in Facebook and find me. You'll see my face on the profile pick or you can also follow me on Twitter at the.

PW torch VIP. That's patreon dot com slash PW torch vip and you can also upgrade to other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon. All right, let's I'll bring in our special guest today on Interview Wednesday. This is Magnus Nick All this Magnus. Welcome to the p ww Torch Live Test.

he knows on Hero or not. So glad that you knew because I was sitting there again and I wonder if I'm just going to listen to the whole show and.

want to send us a question. If you're listening live and for some reason you can't call in or are shy about calling in, But you do have a question for Magnus PW Torch Live cast at gmail dot com. If you're listening to us live, if you're listening to us on demand, you can still send a question, but you can't.

and stuff like that, and I get that. But I think what happens a lot is that people in the business who decide to you know, give sort of quote unquote information to you know, to the journalists and stuff. I think a lot of the time they just based it on what they what on the on the perception. So I think that's probably one of those situations where like a bunch of guys probably just you know, assumed that there might be so then they went, oh yeah,

I think there was, and there was none. Like in fact, when I did that promo, because we did it live like like I literally did the plumo and then walked and then went to go position and then at the go position, alf Snow was there and Big and Matt Commett and they all said, that's one of the best promos you've ever done, like thank you, that was great like that, you know what I mean. They loved it. So I don't know, you know, so that that so let's let's get that out of the way right away.

I loved the I loved the match. You know, it was I mean, it was very physically taxing, you know what I mean. It was like I was feeling it for about a week after and yeah, it's uh think is that we we agreed to part ways or you know, or I had made the decision that I didn't want to discuss another contract and I wanted to move on. But it was very amicable. So it was like I said,

you know, let's like here's the thing. Everyone you you know, and you know, or at least you know, the vast majority of the audience who are going to be buying aDNA paper view it's sort of fans that would know this stuff. So I said, so why don't we why

don't we just go there? It's very very rare in the business you get chance to actually, you know, do something real, get you know, and I believe that the best stuff always comes from from a real place, and I said, this is a real place, but let's let's take it from there. And I think that's one of the reasons why it was you know what, it was.

you said, those who were even in attend. It's kind of new that that was might be the end in line for him too, that that hul clam of versary event gave off a vibe of not really awake. That's overstating it, but kind of like a graduation party at high school where you're or college graduation you're kind of seeing some friends maybe for the last time. Was did you get that vibe at Slamiversary among more than just say you and James in terms of this feels like it's the end of something.

single typing or not, that's that, you know. But some of them potentially have been through like five days of wrestling, you know, which Randy Fan is a lot, you know what a meaning the day, and yet the feeling was, you know, there was there was definitely a different kind of feeling in there. And obviously I've wrestled in that so many times. You can just tell when there's a different kind of vibe going on, and that was definitely

one of those days. You know. Yeah, I you know, I I hope that I hope that they pulled through and that you know, that they like they like they have so many times before when people have written them off and written their obituary. But I, you know, and

I hope they can pull it off. But for me, it was like I wanted to just make it clear that you know, but this for me, I you know, I'm very serious, and I said, like, I think that the end of you know, the end of my run with TNA, and I was and I you know, I'm very grateful for everything that's done, and I'm very grateful to the fans that sort of invested in me, because, you know, you build a relationship with the audience, and that's one of the things I think, as as as

performers that both James and I were trying to get across to people with like, you know, especially considering the sort of circumstances of who maybe T and A has

sort of hung their hat on recently. We were just kind of like, look, you know that this is our way of saying, like one, follow this and to like, you know, you can't just manufacture this overnight, like you developed a trust and a relationship with the audience, and you know, and I should know better than anybody, because I came in with all of that stigma of being like, you know, a chosen one, a guy who you know, you know, didn't have a lot of you know, didn't

really have a track record, you know, and I had to like fight and scratch for every single bit of respect I've ever got from any audience. So it's like, you know, for me, it was, it was it didn't mean well to me. And James has been there since day one, He's seen a lot of ups and downs.

know what I mean? I had said privately to a few people, you know, some of my best friends and obviously Mickey and a few others, I said, like, when this, you know, when my contract comes up this time, like that's it, Like I'm not sticking around again, like you know, anever you know, and a lot of guys you know who like you know, close to me, were like I think they you know, they weren't really you know, I think that they thought themselves like okay, you're saying that now,

but you know, but I yeah, that's truthfully I had Okay, sorry, I had truthfully made that decision, you know, like I and I think that there were a lot of different things that had gone into it, and there was and then there was like one or two very specific instances.

I'm not sure if I'm ready at this point yet to to sort of to fully talk about what they are, but you know, but they all kind of just center around me feeling a little bit disrespected at times, and so then and kind of thrown under the bus a little bit by you know, considering that I had worked so hard to get to the position I was in and then we was just kind of kind of easily discarded, you know, like in sort of unfortunate circumstances, like from

that position and that and that was a situation where to me, I just said, like, you know, I'm twenty eight years old, like I've only got you know, I don't I don't have plans to be wrestling well into my forties, you know, I want to be I've got a lot of other things I want to do, you know, in the business, but also in life. And you know, I want these years, you know, to mean something and

I don't. And I think it might be time for me to see if there's other places where I can make it mean something.

the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious career of Juician Thunderliger and I was there when shows where our guests will join me to talk about a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots of it

at the Progress Paradise. Detailed PW Torch VIP subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits is available at pterbrew torch vip info dot com and Yes All VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site see you in the Paradise.

outside of the Impact zone as a key. She felt that that was going to get him to the next level. And it didn't. But it did kind of break the bank.

It broke the budget. It was an expensive move, and it just it just didn't produce what I think Dixie and Hogan and and everybody who was in on that decision and in favor of it thought, and that led to without getting two into the details, and I've heard various versions of you know how this all happened behind the scenes, but a lot of bell tightening when it came to the budget, I assume that you were kind of part of that roller coaster ride of.

going to earn a good, full time living. And when you combine that with some of the restrictions within the contracts, it started to become more appealing for a lot of guys to leave, especially after AJ did.

you know, very fair. You know it was six figures. Was I making millions? No, not even close, not even like, not even high six figures, but it was. But it

was a very nice especially considering the schedule. Like and I made a point when my son was born to you know, to to reach out to Dixie and to Bob Ryder and to say, you know, just you know, I want you to know how much I appreciate the fact that, like i've you know, I can sit at home and and you know, and watch my son grow up and sort of be here for all of this and get this very nice check every two weeks. I'm

very appreciative of that. And I know and I will always appreciate that, so, you know, I and and again for me, I think that the whole thing about you know, this is the thing about contract is that guys talk about sometimes it's just seed by people who aren't you know, signed to them, that somehow like all contracts are same, you know what I mean, And that people forget the fact that each contract is subject to a negotiation, right so it's like, you know, I can't like it's it's

one of those things where sometimes it's a bit too generalized and people go, oh, yeah, oh, they're not doing those kind of contracts anymore so, and I'm sitting there thinking, well, I've got a contract that has a way and that, you know what I mean, and this and that, and like I can only speak for me obviously, I can't divulge any of that, but I will say this that one of the things that I made a slightly I did negotiate, like I did accept a slight like I

came down a little bit on on the dollar amount in exchange for having a clause where it was like guaranteed for two years, you know what I mean, where it was like there was a note you know that

were they couldn't release me. There was no way they could just because that's the problem with most contractors that like, regardless of what it says on it, that at any point they can just go, I just decided to release you from this, like you know, you like here in ninety days, like you and I didn't have that, you know what I mean. I was aware, I knew exactly what I was going to make for you know, for two years, so that like that, you know that like at the end of the day, each contract is an

individual business negotiation. We're all independent contractors, and I you know, and and and you know, I had other nice little sort of things in there too, like my hotels were covered and things like that. So you know, for me, it was like an extremely what I considered to be an extremely fair deal, you know, based on what I think my market value is, particularly to the UK market, but also you know, based on my years that I'd put in there and my tenure, you know what I mean.

So like I don't I don't. I know that there were a lot of guys who are you know, who signed contracts that to me, I would never have signed, you know, But that actually is more of a problem than than the office than that the company necessarily doing some help typing, no doubt they had to do, because you're right, going live and going on the road and all that was an astronomical expense. Like I don't think people have any idea like what what kind of numbers

you know, I heard I heard some numbers. It just would you know that you just you know that I suddenly just went this can't be sustainable, and it wasn't, you know, I think that hit well. The one thing I will say is that from a content standpoint, I do believe that that period where we went on the road doing like the one live and one tapes and all that, I do think that it was a success in terms of content. I do think that that was probably when we created like the you know, the best

content TNA has created in quite a long time. Like for me, it certainly provided a lot of memorable things, Like I think that back then is when if you looked at the show back then, it was very comfortable to any other wrestling show that was out there, you know, in terms of quality, Like I think back to the Bow the Glory Series in twenty thirteen, you know in Saint Louis, like where I wrestled Bobby Rude earlier in the night and then AJ in the finals, Like that's

one of my favorite nights in the business. You know. I think about all the stuff that the main event Mafia like in Vegas, and you know, and I think that, you know, that wouldn't have had the same feel at all if it be all in the impacts on. So I do think from an artistics standpoint was just not from a financial one. I mean, you know, sometimes you go to make that take that risk. But yeah, perhaps they probably should have maybe realized it a little sooner than they did.

Bischoff made a gamble. You know, they gambled, but Ted had a lot more money to gamble, or he was willing to gamble more money, and it paid off because they had that the background of having been on TBS for so many years, and the roots of that company and the fan base and especially in the Southeast, but not only in the Southeast, and the ability to just go after all this talent at a time and in vincment.

Mannon was kind of not resting on his laurels, but stuck in a certain pattern of how to present television so that all worked out. TNA wasn't trying to leap frog WWE with that move in a way that would make this big splash on a major network like TNT. They were on a smaller networks, solid network, but a smaller network like Spike, but they were just trying to close the gap a little bit and like you said, create an environment that was a little more dynamic. But

it wasn't this innovation like Nitro was. But I still thought at the time I could understand Dixie's rationale for it, but it seemed like one of those things where pretty quickly it was clear the theory that while just having a more major league look quote unquote at these arenas and different a new crowd every night, it just wasn't

translating quick enough into a turnaround. So if they weren't willing to stick with it for three years spending a half a million or more on extra production costs every month, they shouldn't have done it in the first place, because it's not something that would really have an effect probably probably in three or four months.

tells the stuff. And I would always just say like, yeah, you know, at the end of the day, like I'd rather have a job than than wrestling in different arenas all the time. You know, I don't know, like I don't know whether maybe the perception was that there was more money available than perhaps those guys realized, you know, maybe they sort of got maybe I always feel like there,

I mean, this is just my instinct. I don't know that I always got the feeling that they thought maybe like, hey, you know, like there and the energy's got deep pockets, brother, you know what I mean. And it was like and I think they thought that if they just started kind of going for it and and digging, that there to be more and more and more, and and it's my understanding that at some point they just went nope, you're cut off, like yeah, and that was that's just my

impression of it. I don't know any of this stuff, but you know, yeah that that's seems to the impression.

And then it was and then and again to your point, we all just sort of felt like we would have rather that you reinvest, you know, that if you were going to invest that kind of capital we would have rather that you invested it in, you know, like more promotion and creating more brand awareness, you know, and and more advertising, because we were the guys who are having to go to the live events and be a block away from the building and people be like, hey, you're

magnus and we'll be like, yeah, like what are you doing here? You know, and you know, because because because all of it, all of the all of the time and resources were just we're just so so dedicated to TV that it was just you know that it was from the talent standpoint, it could be frustrating at times.

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Torch dot Com, slash Go VIP. Dixy was on this show before the or after the move was announced to Destination America and when she was in the midst of the Discovery Network conventions and that big TV convention she was at on the Lonch right before the launch, or actually the day after the launch, the day after the debut. She hadn't seen the first show yet, so it was a day after the first show aired, So I'm just kind of putting a timestamp in my head on this.

And it was interesting because what you just said was similar to what a caller said. They called in said to Dixie. You know, hey, you came to my town. I knew about it because of the Torch or the Internet or Twitter or something like that. You know, but I live in this town and nobody who's a wrestling fandos the show is here and at Dixie if I

remember right. And I won't get too difficult details because it was months ago, but the impression I got is her her reaction gave a sense that she was quite happy with the job that her local event promotion department such as it is, did and that she felt this fan just happened to miss it or this caller it was an aberration. Yet we heard that over and over, So I use that as an anecdote, and you can

expand on that if you want. But to add to the question, clearly, from talking to you here for twenty plus minutes so far on the show, you're one of the guys who is it doesn't show up, say tell me what to do, and you do it, and then you're off doing something else. You're thinking about, you're talking about. You're invested in the health and the future of the company you're working for, and you're part of the circle of guys who are and rest of the companies do

better when they have them. As one of those people who was in TNA for so long, what was there in your mind a biggest missed opportunity or a biggest door that was open that that was not seized Along the way. You touched on putting money into brand awareness, but talk about that a little bit too. The missed opportunities that maybe you saw that you talked about with other.

it's the only point of reference me. You know. I just Jeff and I just did Jericho's podcast a couple of days ago, and I said that the exact thing to Chris that you know, but it's the only point of reference, and you said, they're burying it. You're really just burying yourself because everyone's like, well, you know, you're

the one who was there, you know. But with that being said, I like to your point, I'm student of the game, but also try to try to always be tried to stay as a bressed as they could have all the all of the operations in the company, because at the end of the day, I was invested, like I want, you know, I was invested in everything, you know, trying to get a handle on every element of it.

And I would have long conversations with Bob Ryder, who by the way I think is that the absolute lifeblood of the company, like he's you know, the main reason why is it's still in existences. He's the only guy who's available twenty four to seven and is always working. To that point, I think there were a number of people in the office internally who didn't necessarily have that

same work ethic. And I'm trying to choose my words carefully when I say this, but there were a lot of guys in Nashville who, to me, I just got the impression that they thought this is a really great this is such a great gig, Like we just you know, we're like, all we have to do is do this and this and this and and you know, and the rest of the time we can you know, this is great.

We just get to hang around with wrestlers or like whether they were fans or not, you know, it was it just seemed to me like a lot of guys were just treating it like a bit of a vacation. And I'm trying and again I'm trying to be nice when I say that, but at the end of the day, you know, I have to call it like I see it, And I said this, I even said this to Dixie because I cared about her and I care about the company.

And I was very grateful to Dixie because you know, she gave me a nice living for for a number of years. And I said, there are a lot of people here who are taking you for a ride, like and you need to you know, you that you need to start dropping some heads off around here and like getting some people, you know, getting these people like to take notice. And and she didn't want to hear it, you know what I mean, that's that's that's that's the

that's the blunk reality of it. But you know, at some point and and here's the thing, and and the evidence in the fact that there would there would be guys who would come in who were really dynamic and like really had a passion to the business but also had an aptitude for it and the acumen to make

happen and implements them on a business level. For example, there was a guy who who called Raphael who came in who had worked at w W E was you know, very was a really good blend of of you know, academically you know, smart, like you know, educated, but also you know, had a bit of that New York kind

of street smart about him. It was very dialed into the business, very smart, very forward thinking, very progressive, and he just would hit roadblock after roadblock, you know, with with trying to implement new ideas and and and he he left to the and he was a guy who was like because unfortunately you can't escape this sort of

political stuff and wrestling. Like as soon as I became the champion, I suddenly was like very aware of like there were camps, you know, like I'd never really I'd never I would hear about this stuff and I would kind of observe it and get a kick out of watching it, but obviously never really been involved with it until like right before I won the title. In when I was champion, it was suddenly it was like, these guys are in my camp, and like these guys are in so and so it was camp, you know what

I mean. There were like definitely people who were like trying to work, you know, against you. I mean, it's just the way. It's always going to be that way. It's stupid, but at the end of the day, that's that's the business, right. Brassiel was one of the guys to me I could always trust and we would go to live events, and he would always make a point to say to me, hey, last time we were in this town, you know, in time last year, the house was this much. This time it's this much.

You know, he would always make it because he came from that wwe uh you know sort of mentality where they you know, they're very dialed into all that stuff. And he and he would always make a point to keep me aware of all that stuff. And you know, and I would go to him and say, hey, you know, why don't we do this and why don't we do that? Like the boys have always said, you know about like why don't we have like wrap scring trucks, or why don't we have this or you know, and all this.

You know that there's a there's a really good like in the Northeast. You're like, oh, there's all these there's these great independent promoters who could draw like two or three thousands, you know, like why don't we work with them? Like, why don't we work with them on some stuff? Yeah, like you know, deal with them with like the street

teams and stuff like that. And it would always just these after a while, Like the problem is of that stuff is that these these suggestions and these things would just flow up into the atmosphere and after a while and I would see all these guys had been there longer than I had, like like Bobby Roots and like Eric Young's and again have great aptitude of the business, and they would have this kind of like they'd see me doing all the stuff, and that you could tell it.

I was just thinking, you're wasting your time, you know what I mean? Wow, I would and I would sit there go and like, oh, we have to you know, let's god book to someone about it. And they'd be like all right, you know, but it's not going to go anywhere. And unfortunately that is the that's the long and short of it, and that's why you know they had Jeff Jareck is too.

You know, he's giving me some some responsibilities here and there to sort of, you know, to do things on an entrepreneurial level. I can't really expand too much on that at this point, but you know, you start to sort of see it as we as we progress here, and it sort of coming up. But it's like, you know, there was only this thing in DNA of like, you're you're just a wrestler, you know. Mm hmmm, hey wrestler,

you know, like don't you worry about that? You just worry about putting your boots on and you know, having your match, and like we'll we'll worry about the business side of things, and it's like we'd be there, No, we're worried about the business because we you know, all

of everything. One of us had to exist as an independent entity prior to coming here, which meant we had to you know handle you know, we have we had to balance our books, you know what I mean, if we don't make up, if we don't, if we don't, we don't have our stuff in line, like we you know, we don't make our house payment next month, so we

don't make our car payment, you know. And so obviously we're all entrepreneurs in that respect, so like, you know, we should And that was always the thing, whereas like sometimes it was there was definitely this thing of like, oh, you know, you're just a wrestler, you know, and that was that, you know, and there was time and Jeff obviously doesn't have that mentality because that generation guy obviously was arrest with a very successful one, you know, and

and now is on the business side of things. So there's definitely you know, he's more open minded as to not to say that he's going to listen to everybody, but he's going to listen and you know, be the objective. You know, when he listens to people didn't put his.

Here's a percentage I'm giving you. Here's what you meant to the gate, not a lot compared to say Jerry Lawler, bild Undie, Austin Idel and you can take it or leave it, but we're going to give you a chance, essentially to be an apprentice to some very some veteran guys and make a name for yourself, so you become one of those guys who draws at the gate. Jerry

was roblunt with me about that. Not everybody liked Jerry's pay approach, but the business aspect of it was, I'm not going to a town unless I'm going to walk away with a bag with some money in it. That's profit. And you know that was an approach. Jeff learned that, and I think he can bring that approach to global force.

Bruce Mitchell wrote a col him in the Pros and Torch newsletter several weeks ago applauding Jeff for being the one guy out there who, from the beginning of launching a promotion did the one thing where you're guaranteed to make money, which is sell some shows to minor league baseball stadium stadiums and you know, run on a budget where you walk away with a bag of cash that counts as profit and all your guys got paid. So right that that approach, that contrast to Hena Nick.

handled business. And then then you go back you look at who who Vince had lined up, you know, to to to sort of steer the ship if he was going to go to jail, you know, And it was Gerry, I believe, so you know, it was Yeah, so it's like and and Jeff not only has all of that, you know, and from from Jerry and then from his grandmother who was was one hundred percent sort of financial you know, so a bookkeeper, you know, in the in the business, but also he learned, he's he's also learned

from the mistakes that today, Yeah, which is which is almost more valuable.

And for me, perhaps the one thing she's always lacked is that survival mentality, because you know, she doesn't necessarily relate to you know, the idea of not being able to pay a bills that might be a little harsh, but that always seemed to be That was always that always seems to be my impression, you know, was that that was the one thing she always seemed to lack, which was always why there seemed to be these sort of huge, these huge, expensive kind of moves, because to me,

it always just seemed to be reflective of someone who you know, it wasn't necess like they weren't they weren't bet in the farm, you know what I mean, Yeah, like they you know, it was kind of I don't want to say playing with house money, but it was sometimes that was the way that it came across. But you know, to me, that the biggest thing was that she was just too easily led, like to you know, too many people took advantage of her still or too many people are still taking advantage of her.

running too over and over again. The other thing with Dixie, and again I think you had an anecdote earlier that backs this up is once she does make a decision, whether she's swayed or otherwise, you she doesn't accept challenges to that point of view or that line of thinking particularly well. It's like once that decision is made, I've gotten the impression from her, we don't want to talk about it anymore. I don't want to hear contrary opinions to it. This is the plan. We're going with it,

and we're going to see what happens. And sometimes it seems like maybe that I don't know if dude, diligence is a word, but being able to listen to a lot of different points of view and based on knowledge of the industry and like you said, kind of that survival instinct process and evaluate which ideas are good ones

and which ones are just a waste of money. So I guess my short question is do you think sometimes Dixie makes the decision and sticks to it, but hasn't sought out counter perspectives to process first.

give it. I mean I did always do that, and I don't know, I I do perhaps get the impression that she kind of would go into these things with an idea of what she wanted to do already, and then you know, nine times out of ten, would that would still be the result coming out. But then that's that's probably the same of you know, the thing can be said of most bosses. I would, I would venture.

We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think of what we're saying, and let us know what you want us to talk about and ask us specific questions. Wad Kellor Podcast at pw torch dot com. There comes a point where you make a decision and you just got to go with it. You can't sit here and second guess at a million more times.

know that is valid. I was going to get to that was that you know that you know at the end of the day, once you do make a decision, you do have to stick with it, whether it you know it was right or wrong, because and and the funny thing is is that I would actually, when you look back at it, to me, the timeline of TNA from when I got there, which is interesting because when I came in in two thousand and nine was arguably the peak of TNA's performance in terms of expenditure, to

attendances and ratings. But you know, the one thing that perhaps to me was the fundamental issue when one of the reasons why I decided to leave was that I felt like they'd lost they'd lost the trust of their poor audience because they'd because they've made too many changes, too many like resets, And to me it was like, you know, after like a reset every now and then is exciting. A reset, you know, three times a year starts giving the message of like we don't know what's

you know, like we don't know what you want. Like even if people can't necessarily even if casual fans aren't necessarily articulated that way, immediately like subconsciously, you know, they start to get that vibe and I think, you know, Eric Bishop and Holk Hogan is showing up and saying, hey, we know you guys really liked that excited ring and

these excivision guys, but you don't want that anymore. Like we're tearing up this format like this, you know, like you know, I'll say this being money in the British Invasion have been a really good, steady part of t and age business for the majority of two thousand and nine. You know, we'd told some compelling stories, we've been entertaining feud, We've been like consistently one of the you know, the

highlights of the live events all over the world. We were advertised for that Monday night shot up, but we weren't put so they advertised beer money versus the British Invasion, you know, and then the first thing I see of

it is them going like tearing up the format. So essentially, you know, in a lot of ways, it was like, hey, here's all these like towns that you the audience have invested all your you know that you've invested your time in, and you know you believe in and you're in it, you know, and you've and you've still given your standard driven to screw them like you know, and you don't want them. You want all these guys that we you know, we're going to tell you who to like and to me.

I really believe that was the beginning of reset after reset of like we're going to the sixth side room, We're going to a fourth sighted ring. Then we're going back to a six sided ring, and we're going live. We're not going like we're going Mondays, We're going Wednesdays, We're going Thursdays, you know, Friday, you know. And it was just like I just started going like we got we gotta pick a day and stick to it. We

gotta pick a time and stick to it. And you know, we got to pick a roster and stick to it. You know, like like there's a little things like changing the name, you know, impact wrestling. Is it P and A or is the Impact wrestling? Like like who chairs at the end of the day, Like changing the name of it now is not everyone's still going to say T and A. No one's gonna you know, all of us could say that, all of us, all of us are saying that at the time, we're going like they're too late to change

it now. Everyone's still going to say T and A ten years down the line, fast forward to five years down the line, Sure enough, T and A, you know

what I mean. And it was just it seemed like a lot of decisions were just made on the whim of like one guy, whether it be Hugan or Eric or you know, Bruce or whoever had Dixie's ear at the time, and unfortunately, you know, there was some It's funny really because like, you know, a lot to me, a lot of the sort of a lot of the sort of snakes turned on each other a little bit too, you know what I mean, Like there was there was like this seemed like there was a lot of regime changes.

And I don't know for sure, but it's the word was that a lot of the time they were sort of screwing each other over. You know, this guy would maneuver to get rid of this guy, and then he'd get moved out because someone else behind, you know, And and it's to me, it was it was it always just seemed to be a race to see who could

get uh, you know, in Dixie's ear. And then it was like and and then the one consistent thing of every new boss, it always seemed like the one thing they were trying to do more than anything was moved Dixie away from the talent and from everyone as far away as possible, you know. Like for me, I always made I always made the decision on the advice of guys like Kevin Nash, you know, like Kevin Nash would

say to me, Hey, when it comes to money. You know, who's who's signed your contract and who signs your checks Dixie, So you deal with Dixie. That was always like the and that was the way I always approached it because he had said that was the way he always had, you know, he had always approached things with you know, with Vince strickmaner though with you know, and then later

on with you know, with WWI and stuff. So I always took the same mentality, and like, I can't tell you the amount of like blowback I got from, you know, from different like talent relations guys for that, because when it came time for a contract, I would always just

be like, I need to have this. I'm gonna have this conversation with Dixie, you know, and they'd be like, no, no, no, you don't need to talk to you need to talk to me, And I go, no, no, I don't, you know, And and like I wasn't trying to be a troublemaker

or anything like that. I was just you know, And but there was always that there was always that feeling that they were just they were always just trying to keep her away from everything as much as possible so that essentially they could be the boss you know like they would they you know, for like I'd say this more about the current boss than any other before as well, that like this seems to be more like more enamored with just being like in charge than really sort of

actually making difference. It's more about just like being in charge and like being the boss and having you know, people underneath them and stuff. I don't know, it could be wrong, but that was always impression I got. But ultimately, after just sort of seeing all these different resets and changes and you know, it just there was always seem

to be like a completely new philosophy. After a while, I just went, I, you know, like I like this, this is these aren't This isn't a stable isn't a stable place anymore, you know, and I need to get out while I can and you know, be somewhere where

like I'm not in this constant state of worry. Like I just did an interview with Jason Powell before before I talked to you, and I said, like I wasn't I'd never really I said this in like my Rolling Stone interview and a few other places too, and I said about how it felt like a one hundred pounds weight had been lifted off my back. But honestly, that really is true. And the only reason I talked about it is I really didn't expect that to be the case.

Like I really wasn't, Like I really didn't. I knew, you know, because I knew it was coming. I knew I was going to tell him I didn't want to stay, and you know, we would wrap up business at the pay per view, and in the end, they had ended up having me tape a couple of things, you know, so like the last thing is like, you know, still a couple of weeks away, but whatever. I just but I do remember just being genuinely surprised at how relieved

I was when I got off the phone. I remember, like we we talked and we agreed to, you know, wrap up business the right way and everything like that. Got off the phone, and you know, it was big and like Mickey was there and I and she looked

me in and I said, that's it. I did it, you know, and she just went that's it, and I went yeah, and it was like I had this like this this st like like you know, I teared up, but not in like a not in a sad way, but just in like it suddenly was like this huge release of tension because it was just always another worry.

It was always like there was always something new, you know, and from the talent standpoint, it was just like it was it weighs you down because like you said earlier, like I'm one of those guys who's like invest and it was it was such a relief to just think, like, you know, it's not my cross to bear anymore, you know, with a real relief.

really good, really good performers in their own right. I sort of became this kind of go to kind of guide almost like you know, I won't want to say like a leader or anything like that, but but certainly like there was, there was, there were some of the younger guys especially, were more comfortable coming to me to sort of get my take on on things than going to say Joe or you know, or somebody like that who really was a leader, you know, and so and so I saw, you know, after a while, I sort

of became this, you know this for a certain group of guys, or became like this little bit of a of a barometer, you know, because they'd be like, well, you've seen you know, things that looked really bleak, and then they've sort of come out from then you see that things that look really good, and you know so but yeah, I always said to those guys, the truth is is that t and ay, I know that they say it as like as a bit of a defense mechanism.

But it is true that they have almost from day one there they're you know, people have been writing their obituary like that is true, and they have always found a way, you know, so there is always that you always got to keep that in the back pocket. But I would say that, you know, I've had this conversation with guys who are much more qualified to talk about it than I am. You know that this time around,

I've got to say it doesn't it does. It does feel different, It doesn't have the same like it does. There is a different field at this time. I think that, you know, I mean, someone will someone will say it,

so it may as well be me. But I will say this that there was a very telling moment for me when you know, Dixie wasn't present at the Slammiversary pay per view, and that said a lot to me, Like that was a very telling thing to me, like because you know, considering the circumstances that you know, and you know, for like for for for me and then apparently for James, you know, and for and for aries, you know, it was it was interesting to me that that she wasn't there. But whatever, why no no, that's

what I'm saying. I don't know why I didn't. You know, I'm not I'm not in love with myself enough to to really, you know, to go out of my way to find out you know, you know, well I weren't you there for my last match, but you know, but but it was interesting to me, you know, considering that, and it was ironic to me that this is the truth, this is a shoot. I didn't know. I didn't know about all that stuff. But Jeff, it was very much.

That was very last minute. You know, I had already sort of you know, shook you know, shook his hands, you know, and said, yep, you know, whatever you need me for, Like I'm there, you know what I mean, I'm in as far as Global is concerned. So it

was just very interesting. It was very It was sort of telling to me that, you know, I went out there and even though it was my last day, and I'll say this like, oh, Hevna was the ref you know, for for our match, which which was great lovel You know, he actually lives like five minutes away from me now and I go to his house and get eggs because he has a chicken. So you're going to get free

eggs from him. So I love him for that. And he sent me and said, he goes, you're gonna like you're are You're going to dive off the Are you going to dive off like go off the top, like to the floor through a table And I go yeah. And he's like, why are you doing that? Don't do that. It's your last you know, it's your last day. Like

I'll get her on your last day. I said, no, oh, I'm doing it because it's my last day, you know what I mean, Like because it's it's like if I can't go out here and like you know, put myself through all of that or you know, through all of that punishment, you know, for the sake of entertaining the audience and telling them a story that you know that hopefully they won't forget, you know, and giving them what I thought was you know, was a serious you know,

it was a few real memorable moments and you know, a story that I'm very proud of. So if I can't do that on my last night, you know, after six years of like earning their trust, then like I should you know, I don't deserve it, you know what I mean? And that was. I believed that, and I but I also looked at it as a way to say, don't mourn, don't mourn me, you know what I mean, Like this is I'm really on, Like I'm like I'm

moving forwards, you know. And I and it was like almost like for me, I said, like, this is a at the end of the day, every time you're on television, whether it's for fifteen seconds or fifteen minutes, that's a

that's an that's a commercial for your services. And I said, this is a you know, this is my way of showing everybody like if you know, if I'm being paid right, which I was, you know, I will, I will give you everything, you know what I mean, And I would be happy to do it, and I'll you know, and we you know, did you know obviously it was a

pay per view and the time restrictions and stuff. I wish that had been able to take a bit more time at the end there of the afterbook, because you know what, like you saw little glimpses of it, you know, the emotion there, but like people you know that there were tears when people were crying in the audience, you know, because they knew like there was you know, there are people there with her every day, every single time, you know, and they and they knew it, and it meant a

lot to those people, it meant a lot to me.

The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feeds.

you know that I was. I did my best to be a company guy. I had a conversation a while back. It was right after I won the title, actually, because I took that seriously as to be like a you know a little bit of a of a leader. I you know, had heard about some of the sort of financial issues maybe in some of the guys having late checks and stuff. So I called uh the office and called Dean the CFO, and said, hey, look, I don't you know, I don't need to know any in and outs.

I'm just saying to you, if there's ever a if there's ever a where there's a bit of a cash flow issue and you need to hold guys checks. You know, please put mine at the bottom of the pile, you know what I mean, Like you pay every you know, pay like pay the guys who like pay the guys like Spud and stuff who are on like starving artists contracts, you know who like really need you know, who need

that check, you know what I mean? Because that was that was that was after I had a conversation with Spud and he was just kind of like, you know, he was concerned because it was you know, because he

was sort of paid per show and stuff. I made a point to say to them, make sure you have like take care of all those guys first and like and all I ask is that you just call me and let me know, because I, like, I can go a few weeks, you know what I mean, Like I don't I don't live outside my means or anything like that. So it was like, I can you know, I can deal with it, It's no big deal, but just just

be upfront with me. And to their credit, they always were, you know, there was a few instances where they said, hey, check's going to be you know, check's going to be a week late, you know, really sorry, you know, and I'd be like, yeah, sure, you know, so so like I can't. I can only speak to me like and

so you know, I do. I do know. As an issue, I've heard some of this stuff about the production guys and all that, but I don't know too much about that, like in depth, and honestly, like, you know, I don't really I'm not sure I really want to engage in too much conversation about all that, because it's like, you know, at the end of the day, they don't have to show up like that. That's I know, that sounds like a bit of a sort of roofless like wrestling coromot,

I think to say. But it's like, you know, if you're not getting paid and you know you're that upset about it, then don't show up.

If you want to see innovative interringaction, you want to see a range of performers, you know, big, small, you know, you want to see like uh and you know, an alternative, like a real alternative, like a good combination of like established name guys and up and coming guys and guys who were considered within the genre to be very good, you know, who had hadn't necessarily had a national stage up to that point, meaning like you know, I'm going back years now talking about like the early days of

like Joe and AJ and jay Lee's or and guys like that. But you know, now I can't add to that question because you know, at the end of the day, there's a lot of guys being very heavily promoted into you and a who were you know, who were part of the w w E system, some who didn't even make the main roster. So it's like whether or not

they were guys who deserved to or not. The fact is that, you know, it's still that message, it's still that brand, you know, brand awareness issue, and we all make those choices when we sign a contract, for example, you know the thing that you've heard it, everyone's heard it. There's always that thing of oh, you know, it's you don't like TNA guys, you know, the TNA stigma and everything like that. Like if there is, you know, that's

up to them, that's their prerogative. Like I have to live with that because I made a choice to sign with TNA back at twenty one years old, you know what I mean. I wasn't good enough for ww back then anyway, so it wasn't a big deal. But it's like, but the fact is that you know I made that choice. You know, you know, you make your bed, you gotta lie in it, and it's and that's the same with with a you know, with a guy who sort of i'll say this, I did, used to get really pissed off.

There were there were a number of guys who showed up at TNA after being let go from the WWE developmental System. There were some guys like Bram who came in with awesome attitude and I spoke and I knew that anyway, because he legitimately is my best friend. I legitimately said, if you can't miss with this guy, like he's gonna you know, he's brilliant, right and he's you know, and I think that that's been proven. I think that,

you know, as a limit for him. But there were some guys who showed up having been let go by the ww developmental system and just acted like they were doing us all this huge favor, you know what I mean, and like really rubbed some of us the wrong way. Like yeah, and I've never been one of those guys who's big on like the locker room respect and all that stuff, Like I don't care about all that stuff too much, but I do believe in respect, you know

what I mean? And I would see there some guys that showed up and fairly recently who I didn't even know they've been in WW developmental you know, like like that's that's that's you know, and I watched everything. I didn't even know they had been there, and they're strutting around like they've you know, like they're doing everyone this huge favor and that you know, like they're going to be the answer to all our present that like, oh

everyone should know who I am. Like, to me, that was unacceptable, you know, and I would and there weren't times where I would speak up about it and be like, you know what, like you need to be a bit more grateful, you know, and and like but unfortunately that I believe has sort of become a little bit of

the status quo now is. But like, hey, we'll you know, well we'll just wait for we'll let w W train these guys and then any of the runoffs will grab their TV ready, you know, Like, and that to me is not a viable that's not a viable where to compete, you know, and especially especially when there is so so much great talent like of like all over the world, like killing it on the indies now more than ever.

And it's like it's almost like some of these independent promotions are so good now, it's like it's almost like a disservice to call them indis, you know, And and like when when it's more exciting to me to think and I can go and do whatever shows I want, Like I just you know, me and Mickey just agreed to go and do a show for ICW. I'm so pumped about doing that. Like those guys are those guys are just doing like such amazing stuff up in Scotland,

you know what I mean. We're doing a show for PCW in in Blackpool in August and England what without a question, one of the best English promotions there is when it talks about the UK. There are so many

great promotions right now where pro South side PCW. You know, progress Like it's like, you know, when you're more excited about that because you know about who you might get to work with and stuff, because I'm looking at who I've got to work with, you know, when I go to work and I'm going like hmm, well, you know, obviously, if I get to work with Bobby Rude, I'm going to be the happiest guy in the world, because he's

the best in the business. But you know, if I have to with this guy, you know, like like the latest guy who's just been brought in, who's you know, especially when he's not even grateful, you know, and not giving me the respect like based on you know, what I've done to this company, like and the sort of the trust and the you know, the sort of a claim that I fill up with the audience. Not having that great marketing machine behind me, Like, that's not that's

not something I'm looking forward to that much. Yeah, that's just that was that was a big part of my decision.

remove the ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts at nine dollars in ninety nine cents to treat yourself to a streamlined ad and plug free list experience with a VIP or Patreon membership. I was very much in favor of your getting a big push once you weren't twenty one in green anymore, you know. I mean, I thought that you had a lot going for you.

I think I think that this last hour plus is evidence that I would enter into that in terms of a thoughtful, intelligent viewpoint on the business and that right balance of caring about the company, but not caring about the politics, not wanting to get wrapped up in that, not being into the gossip machine and that kind of thing, but keeping your ears open enough to know what's going on in the company. And I think that's all important. However, my question is take you out of the equation as

best you can. I'm curious if there's two or three or four guys during your years in TNA where you think TNA would have been successful going all in with them because program I mean, look at USC, I mean last Saturday night star driven pay per view. McGregor's going to shatter some pay per view numbers. Probably he's gonna be in the very top top five list of pay per view drafts for that company. Personality combined with skill and credibility. Ron A Rousey, same thing, Chuck Lidell, I mean,

go in UC history is same thing the NBA. I mean, people don't tune in to see the Cleveland Cavaliers. They tune in to see Lebron James on the Cleveland Cavaliers. So my question is, and I've made I've been an advocate for TNA, whether they made the right decision or not go with someone go all in defind the company as when you tune into TNA, it's your privilege to watch this guy who's the best in the business be featured.

two thousand and nine. Ker Angle was there, Mick Foley was there, Kevin Nash was there, book If he was there, Scott Steiner was there.

now I'm starting to get this. And that was how I got such a crash course honestly, you know, with such early on, because I was like, this makes me better because now I have the responsibility of going, these are the most over guys on the show, so I have to buy proxy, you know, do everything I can to have them. Was heat, you know, as part of the British invasion to to you know, to make this you know, to obviously to get the most out of

this act. You know, So that would be one AJ obviously it is you know, is another you know I think that with AJ, it was like, you know, it was there were times where the where where it was the case, you know, and then and then it would sort of like that identity crisis thing would come in again where it would be like then it would be you know, then they would sort of then it would spread it again between like you know, established same guys

and stuff. Joe would be obviously another. I just think for me, the thing that was WW doing it really well now, which but they were, you know, perhaps they weren't necessarily doing it as well. At the time when I was observing a lot of this was a you know, C and A had this great opportunity with having having like a handful of like four or five really really talented rustlers who were really based around the match that it was like you had these rivalries that were just

sort of sitting on deck, you know. So it was like Joe and Kah, you know, was a great rivalry, but we could have got you know, they could have

got so much more mileage out of it. And then and then and there were a number of ones like that where to me it was like, you know, I stopped back and I looked at it, and I thought, you know, I realized, like i'd met all like all those years I was there, Like my first real significant like series of matches with someone was with Joe after we've been attack teams, you know what I mean, Like

they just didn't they just never married anyone. It was always just like it was always just kind of everyone was interchangeab apart from the main event storyline, and you know, I you know, I think that it's about to answer your question about like who who I would have sort of built the you know, built the franchise around. I guess it would have been certainly Bobby Rude goes in there, you know, whether it's part of beer money or as

an individual. I'm trying to think now, you know, as some other guys who I think maybe you know, didn't

sort of. I don't know, Like it's a difficult question because there's there's so many talent that came through, and it's sometimes it's like you forget some of them even but I think that, you know, I think there were times where where it was it was you could have very like for example, I'll use me as an example, even though you asked me not to, but like when I had the title, for example, you know, I was

I was for the most part of that front. I was working with Joe and we were absolutely carrying the you know, we we we were doing. It was absolutely

enough for the live events, you know what I mean? Yeah, But for whatever reason, whether it be politics or or just you know, or a decision or a lack of faith or whatever it was, they always there was, you know, every every now and then I would show up and it would be tables match with like mister Anderson and Bully Ray you know, oh, we can't decide whether to put that on last for you and Joe on last. And I was like, I'd be like, what you can decide?

What you mean is someone's someone else is trying to tell you know what I mean, someone else is trying to tell you like that, you know. And and to me, I never got involved in any of that, said, hey, do whatever you want, you know, I said, if you said, you tell me that me and Joe for the World titled can't like you know, isn't solid enough to go on last, then then you know what might even do in here. And that was where all this stuff started to come out, like oh, he's you know, he's rubbing

people the wrong way. And I said no, I'm just I'm just stating, you know, the same thing that anybody should if they're put in that position, and that was and that was ourselves.

maybe the majority of the time. Even more so, you had examples of guys as soon as they left TNA, You're like they were unleashed. They had a swag or to them. The Young Bucks CM Punk to maybe not great example, so they were never pushed a lot in TNA, but there's an X factor there that there's a certain type of fan who looks at them. They did with Punk and he made it to the top. And the Young Bucks today are two guys who walk down the street and they if you're not a wrestling fan, you

wouldn't think twice about them. You think, oh, a couple of cocky kids, you know whatever. But there's something magical about them that people who like the follow the indie scene are rapidly for them. TNA seemed to not be able to look.

Jane Storm certainly at times, did a handful of others, But for the most part, it seems like there's something about the way that TNA operates is designed, the setting, it all kind of comes together to undermine the seampunk young buck uh what what aj styles had in him? And it doesn't really get a chance to flourish and and and connect with an audience in that cool quotient way that TNA always comes fall short on. Is there something there and is there even a solution that's fixable?

over right. Yeah. But you know, but after that, without that, there always seem to be this thing of like you're we've you know, we've predestined you to be this position for us, you know, and luckily for me, you know, I was always one of those guys who, you know, it's probably because I'm like six four and you know, decent physique, you know, all the rest of it. I am a good talker, you know, people that was like it.

It seemed like it was predestined to me that you know that there was always a chance I could be at the World Champion, right, But there were other guys who it wouldn't matter if they'd if every single person in the building was wearing their shirt and you know, doing their stuff, that it that it, you know that they they still would have been in like the six minute you know, third match or something.

ultimately to me was like I don't. I felt like I was starting to go through an identity crisis because I was starting to go like what am I? You know like, and I realized that it was because I was and like you said, like you know, now that I've left, it's like I do feel like free again, but you know it's I'm still kind of I'm still like working out of the of the mud a little bit,

if that makes sense. Like I'm still you know, like I just did these first live events for the Jeff and I worked like Tomaso Champer on one of them, and I worked with Congo Kong on the others, and it was like, you know, I have to say, like I came in a little bit like with a little bit of that comfort zone kind of act, you like, now we'll just do this and we'll do that, you know what I mean, And then like I start going, you know what, like I got to start thinking, you know,

I got to start like putting my thinking cap on a bit here again because you know, it's up to me again, like the powers in my hands to sort of make it work.

and I'm excited about it. And I hope that, you know, I hope that anyone who's sort of invested their time in me uh t and a you know, continues to do that, you know, wherever, you know, where else they end up because you know, because I think, you know, you're going to you're going to see some you know, you are going to see some growth and you're going to see I mean I'm like, I'm twenty eight, Like I'm I'm I have a peaked, so I don't think I have you know, And I'm and I'm really I'm

really excited about where we go next, you know, and and and what other sort of possibilities lie ahead from me.

And I tackled some of these emails too, because this was a really good, I think, productive and fascinating discussion on TNA from someone who's been there a long time.

meatheads to Zo book. It's a very real world, practical approach to you know, to getting in better shape and being you know, and having whatever kind of body you want, whether you want econor McGregor body, or you want a

Rob Terry body. But there's there's there's the input from all kinds of great people, including Kurt Angle, who was really generous at this time, like broat some really great stuff for it, like as far as like training, intensity, mental visualization, stuff like that, top quality trainer Nick Rlik from from Baltimore who's worked with a lot of NBA players,

NFL players, and stuff like that. Guys from like CEO of Natural Stack Supplements like Rob Terry's contributed, Brooks contributed for the Girls, Mickey contributed, and stud Uh, just just loads of different really great guys. So it's not just the it's you know, the whole sort of series of knowledge and and trial and error and stuff from a whole group of guys you know, who really know this stuff.

So if anyone's interested in getting in better shape and the Superstar Body, it's available order and download as from tomorrow.

you know, to make it as universal as possible. So that's why I've had been put for some girls and from like Kurt, Kurt specifically speaks about training like into his forties, you know, and and how to sort of you know, and help and how to sort of adapt, you know, going forward, and really a lot of it is kind of an interesting point because a lot of it is really just about, like it's not about a

certain technique for one person or another. It's like you'll see all these magazines, most of them are just a thing full of commercials. The book is more about these are the like fundamental black and white facts that you need, like throw all this other stuff away, all this you know, because best I will just contradict yourself. One week you'll say, you know, eat more fat, and then matually you'll say, don't eat fat, and then you know what I mean, all this kind of stuff. This is more about like

these are this is these are fundamental. If you know this stuff, you will be in shape like period, you know. And if you want to start experimenting with some of the more of that like fadly type stuff, then sure, go ahead. But if you've you know, but if you really want to fundamentally be in shape, this is the stuff you need to know, like cut, cut through the craft, this is this stuff.

many follow up questions. Are the things that he said that we just stayed focused on that theme and introduced new ones into it, but we will have him on again if if, if he is willing, and it sounds like he is, so I thank all of you again for joining me today, thank you for your support of this show. As I said, last month was our second month ever. Best month was either March or April, you know around rest many a time. But we even beat either April or March two in June, you know, I mean,

go figure. So the growth just continues. We're doing two to three times the listenership a year ago and three to four times two years ago, three years ago.

So we really appreciate that. If you want to get even more in depth this the live caster, there's a lot of five live casts a week, sometimes six on pay per view Sundays. A lot of content here, but the vast majority of what we do, and especially what I do, is at PW Torch dot COM's VIP website, and it's an ad free web site which features a

weekly newsletter. I just put this week's newsletter up with a long story about my weekend in On that note, I will sign off for today, Pat McNeil tomorrow with Hurricane Shane Helms, and then Bruce Mitchell and Travis Bryant back on Friday. Big thanks to Bruce again for hosting with Jason Powell yesterday. By the way, the VIP after show after yesterday's program featured and I'm not kidding, Bruce Mitchell and Jason Powell talking about me for thirty six

minutes trying to embarrass me. There were some nice things they said too, but they yeah, it was all about Actually Bruce told a story that was embarrassing for him too, So it was it was a really fun show. I enjoyed listening to it after the fact yesterday it was a this is your life weight Keller type of thing with two of my better friends in life, not just in Pro Wrestling, Bruce Mitchell and Jason Powell sharing some some some weaighte Keller stories, the blue Panther mask story,

the the suit incident with Bruce Mitchell. That a practical joke we played that Jason and I played on Bruce at one point, and so much more so. If you are not a VIP member when you sign up, I point you towards yesterday's VIP after show with Bruce and Jason for a fun look behind the scenes at the Torch operations over the years and the personalities who put out the Torch product. All Right, that does it for me for today. Thank you everybody, and unto next time.

This is PW Torch editor Wad Keller signing off. Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. That's Wadkeller Podcast at PW torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us on Twitter at PW Torch and follow me at the Wade Keller That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.

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