5 YRS AGO FLAGSHIP: Keller hosting an AEW Revolution panel discussion with three contributors who attended on-site on Chicago

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Now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast.

Five years ago.

This week on the Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, the special Roundtable episode I hosted with three guests who all attended aw Revolution, the pay per view in Chicago in person. PW torches Travis Bryant, Joel Dennell, and former Progressing Torch columnist Eric Croull all gave their thoughts on attending. They've

Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast.

All right, so my first topic is to you Travis Bryant as a infrequent AW viewer, and you can put more context on that, talk about the reasons that you have chosen not to watch AW because different people different reasons for what they watching to watch. And then also what drew you to going to the show Saturday night AW Revolution And we'll kind of go from there and build on that because we're going to have an interesting discussion with different perpective here.

Well, I'll answer the last question first, and the ticket was free. My buddy broke up with his girlfriend and they were going to drive from Cincinnati and he had a ticket asked if I wanted to go, all I had to do was get there.

So I board a plane ticket and didn't know we did a hotel.

I wasn't an America's guest this time, but.

But I did get to go to Chicago for the first time, so that was cool.

Oh wow cool?

Yeah yeah yeah, but but yeah, so I got there because there was a there was a ticket for me. But I haven't watched AW since the big December eighteenth show. I think that was the show that had the you know, the twenty minute Jericho party with Virgil and Fixed Bake, Vapor Rub and you know, it was a sports entertainee as as as anything Vince has ever done, and kind of worse because it was a derivative, and you know they at least they I don't say they do it good, but they were used to doing it.

This was just so I was turned off completely.

I just stopped watching and all dud was focused on NXT and at the time I wasn't watching Rawer SmackDown in NXT. From pretty much from November to just a few weeks ago, was it. I still haven't watched an aw TV. I did see some of the promo stuff literally and figure tive.

I saw the actual.

Promos from the Bucks and that sit down interviewed they had with Page and Omega, and.

That was interesting.

It made me think, well, now I want to see the Bucks lose and lose very badly. They were always okay. I didn't hate them and like the way they wrestled, and but I didn't hate them. But yeah, maybe I'll come back. As far as like the Wednesday, we'll see tomorrow, I probably will watch because I probably set up TV with n XT sound down, lap Chap with aw with

I got over it, like yeah and well yeah.

So we'll kind of explore kind of the micro take on everything as we move forward. Another panelist here is Eric Crowl, who was a Pro Wrestling Torture newsletter columnist almost thirty years ago.

Eric, you're also a journalist by.

Trade, and I would say that you have qualified as a lapsed fan at times over the last thirty years. Talk a little bit about your your journey to AEW. I know you're a Chicago NATA, so that had a lot to do with it, but also where you stand as far as your viewing of aw Okay.

So I started raise a family and bailed right around three, and I had about a fifteen year gap, so I missed all of the bad WWE years and the Wasteland years, the years in the Wilderness. Came back in twenty eighteen because of Jericho Omega and New Japan. Watched New Japan fairly religiously, got into being the elite. Has been at both All In and All Out and then Saturday Show and throw in some NXT and ROH over the years.

What other content of prog wrestling are you watching if anything regularly?

No New Japan and NXT. I even watched NXT UK last week. Ask forward to a lot of it. But I do like EDXC. I really can't watch main roster w w E. It just it's just not my thing.

And why and why not? I mean just kind of short answer on that. I could do an hour.

Yeah, well, the time commitment is five hours. It's not It's not the Monday Night Wars when I was single and didn't have kids, I could watch five you know, all that, All of that, all of those hours of wrestling not anymore. And RAW is just such a slog most weeks, and I just I don't find the act,

Yeah, yep.

And then Joeldenel who people whose sort of this to the WAKEL Defrosing post show familiar with his voice now as a regular co host on the AW Dynamite post show. Joel, we know that you watch AW every week, you write the hits and missus columns for pw toorch dot com.

But you you made it out to Chicago for this show, So just talk.

About why you, uh, because I know there's a little bit of a story we covered it, uh in yours the last time you were co hosts, but a little bit about you attending live AW shows.

Yeah.

So it all started with just going to All In and that was a show where it had all these stars that I'd always wanted to see because, as you know, we in Minnesota, we don't get a whole lot of great wrestling shows that come here.

Every once in a while, they'll throw us a B.

Show WWE pay per view, but mostly it's you know, house shows and kind of not great WWE stuff. Every once in a while we'll get those NXD house shows,

And since then, I've.

Wanted to go to pretty much all of their major shows, or at least their pay per views. I missed Full Gear, which was in Baltimore, just the logistics of that one didn't work out. But I'd been to All In, Double or Nothing, all Out Revolution, and then I will be at Double or Nothing this coming May, and then I'll be.

Going to All Out again for Labor Day weekend.

So just trying to follow all their major shows and just being a part of it, experiencing it and learning about why this wrestling is different from what's been presented with WWE for so long.

So Joe, I'm going to ask a follow up to you on this first, which is it being to as many big AEW events as you've been to now, the standalone shows, not the weekly TV series. Have you noticed in evolution in the fan in the type of fan demographically, their enthusiasm, who they're responding to, and the way that AW caters to them.

Just kind of tackle that.

As you look at the I guess the last almost I guess a year and a half now that you've been going to AW shows or such as All In, was it counts.

Yeah, that's yeah, definitely, And that's a really good question because I was actually thinking about that while I was at the show, that going back to All In and Double or Nothing. So All In was that special, you know, built as the biggest independent wrestling show of all time. So it got all these hardcore fans from all across the world who came to this one event who really wanted to make everything success.

They were cheering for everything.

They weren't going to poo poo, you know, anything that was perceived as bad. And it was the same thing for Double or Nothing, where everyone wanted to be.

At the first pay per view.

And now what I've seen at revel was it almost felt like there was two different.

Kinds of fans at this show.

That it was the.

Younger, you know, I would say probably you know, twenties to mid thirties, you know, fan who's into AW.

They liked being the elite, they liked New Japan stuff.

And then I also saw a lot of kind of older fans who I can't think of a better way to describe them than I think it was on your pay per view roundtable where it was kind of like almost those older wrestling fans who.

You know, would chant things like like.

You fed up and kind of you know, derogatory stuff like that. And I noticed this a lot too during the Nila Rose and Chris stat Lander match, where there was a lot of just very negative, negative things being shouted at the ring. And that was not my experience at all from All In or Double or Nothing, and even All Out was kind of more of those hardcore fans.

I'd make this observation the other shows you mentioned, I think we're all fly in shows, all in and all out where I know Vegas for sure? Was this one was I think there was no star cast. I get the sense that it was probably a bigger mix of local Chicago ins and fewer travel people would be my guests. And this one was in a different building and attached to a comic convention I think fantasy cosplay type of thing, so that might have had something to do with that.

Yeah, that this was the first time that that really kind of stood out to me that it seemed like a lot of the people who I would see at kind of WWE shows, We're now finally going to these aew events.

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So let's get back to it. Let's jump back into the discussion.

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What has struck you about aw compared to wrestling that you attended in the eighties and wrestling that you attended during the Attitude era? Does it seem like a revival of some of that or different in some notable ways?

I mean, there were packed houses during the Attitude era, and there were pack houses for a lot of the eighties. Probably the biggest, the loudest I've ever heard a building was for a Hogan Orndorff cage match. I think it was the ugly big blue cage where you know orangeor is almost over the cage and Hogan's trying to pick him and the hair on the back of my neck as a teenager was standing up. That strikes me as

Yeah, I'm going to add on to that too, Eric.

That another thing that I noticed, especially going to these aw shows, and I can't speak for Dynamite. I haven't been to these some of these smaller market shows, but there's a lot. First of all, there's a lot more women at these shows, a tons more of guys who are taking their girlfriends or people taking their wives and even taking their kids to these shows. And when you go to a WWE show. I'm speaking particularly about the TLC pay per view.

That was in Minneapolis last December.

Where most of them are just kind of, you know, the last remaining people who are still watching the watching WWE. It's not people bringing families. It was just kind of people who are like, yeah, wrestling's in town, it's the pay per view, so I'm going to go to the show. Whereas here it's kind of more of an event. It's like it's okay to take the kids, It's okay to

She just had a good time.

There was nothing that was, you know, insulting your intelligence. There was some things that you know, are just kind of weird. I mean, like the whole Dustin Rhodes thing where He's kissing Jake's wife was kind of weird. But you know, for the most part there there's nothing that's you know, that's totally embarrassing, UH that that you're gonna experience there.

So Travis saving the UH the one that I might be most curious about for last No Offense. Joel and Eric, your your impression of ae W as an event, because you're not watching the TV show every week, but you are, so you're kind of walking in not as an avid UH one over fan, but actually almost an outsider, you know, stepping into not as a wrestling fan, but an outside because you're not just sold on this product.

You're not sold on certain wrestlers.

You're not even there for like specific matches that you have been invested in emotionally.

Talk about what feels different.

About AW compared to all the other live events that you've got to over the years, whether it's you know, you and I went to w B Extreme Rules in UH in Newark in New Jersey and there was that huge pop for seth Rawlins Make and It's come back at the end and all that.

So just compare that a W vibe.

Yeah, go ahead, I mean it was a big it was the same as double or nothing in Vegas.

It was a big time building.

It's a you know, packed crowd. I mean every seat was was filled. I didn't see one empty seat and everybody was enthusiastic.

So they were the audience involved involved for a w is big time.

They're set, they're the visuals, all the whole production is is big time. It's not WWE big time because that's just you know, tip of the top of the you know, as far as it's hard to catch up to that putting on a road show for for for you know, fifty plus years, you kind of know what you're doing and you have the infrastructure and the budget and all that.

But it was the booking. But that's another topic.

But it was a big but it was a big time set, big time feel. They had their gimmick with the with the risk wrist bands.

That that lit up.

That was I said, so they're gonna I when before Justin Roberts announced that, I was like, they're just gonna use us as props. This is a way to make people raise their hands and like woop, woop woop, you know, do things. And I was like, what a great idea, what a fantastic thing I had the show. Wristbands are not people were been going nuts, but it just gives an extra incentive to you know, to make yourself seen

Right.

There were a few in my section older like twelve and thirteen, and then I saw like a few like eight year old, you know looking kid. It's but not as many as a WW show. I didn't expect there to be that kind of family ro vibe. It was friendly, it wasn't off putting in any way, but there just wasn't a ton of a ton of kids and not as many women.

I think either, I don't.

I haven't been to a WW show probably since that twenty sixteen Extreme Rules show with You Wade, but for two decades leading up to that, I was pretty much sure a regular all over Philadelphia. When they care in Philly, when they came every year or you know, a couple times a year.

It's a big time.

I don't want to I don't want to sound like I'm being negative, because I'm not. It's just felt it just wasn't as a family thing, and ww goes out of their way to a detriment sort of to the family fund entertainment and bring everybody no matter even And yes I'm babbling, but big time go ahead.

Yeah what No, that's okay?

What what what jumps out about a w Do you that that that I should say jumps out? Does it seem like it's a positive or negative spin on the vibe of the fans and their attitude towards the product compared to WWE? Do you because and you, like I say, of this outsider perspective, do you kind of it's almost like you're kind of you're part of the show and

Or are just they just they're very enthusiastic, overly enthusiastic, Like I don't understand, Wow, you as a wrestling fan that takes that once a product that's serious, that wants not to be embarrassed.

But let me tell you.

When I was in it at double or nothing, I saw I look that it was a Battle Royal. Because I didn't know anybody, I turned to the guy or in the ring or in my surroundings, I think, But anyway, I asked the guy next to me, I said, why is there a little kid in the wing?

Like?

Is this like some kind of like Because he wasn't taking a bunch of bumps getting bumped. I was like, Oh, is this somebody's like cousin that they're doing in this wacky Battle Royal?

And it turns out to be that was Marco Stunt.

And then he's featured on TV and he's not a serious wrestler, because how can you take a guy that I thought was a kid from one hundred yards away serious?

Like he shouldn't be on anybody's national TV. But there he is.

I don't care how over he is, but it's it's hard to take get past that. And Joey Janella a guy like that, and Rich and we had these arguments on VIP and you know how hard working a guy is and this that and the other and I and it works and I have to give him all all all involved, the talent and the company. But then I'll turn around and absolutely love Orange Cassidy like I have no real consistency and what it's what you like, it's it's and what you don't.

And sometimes certain things can be done well and certain things can be done poorly. There's some Orange things.

There's a welleway.

There's a good way to present a four to eight guy that's, you know, one hundred and two pounds in there bumping around.

Your world champion.

It's absurd and it makes me I like Darby Allen when he was going at Jericho with his arms tied behind his back, Like why is Jericho's just punch him in a face and pend on one, two, three going on.

It's that time.

But Travis, I watched it.

So so forgiving or I don't want to say forgiving because that's yeah.

But the the goodwill is there, It's very much there, Travis. I watched Faulk Cogan and Gene Okerland team together once against mister Fuji George the Animal Steel, and and it was it's and again, yes, I'm comparing gen Oaker, Linda Marco Stutt, but there's a way that you can do a mismatch type situation where the opportunistic take comes in.

He's just an easy target for me.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

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Yeah, I mean, I guess, just adding on to that conversation, I mean, I guess I probably had a perception of more kids there because I was in next to Jurassic Express, who were a complete hit with all the kids. I mean, there was a lot of kids who wanted to come up to them. I mean, there was tons of kids in the section by the ramp, and one of in particular was wearing a Lucasaurus mask and so they got their.

Picture with Jurassic Express.

Otherwise, other kids were just thrilled to walk just walk by that section and see and see Marco Stunt and Jungle Boy.

So yeah, I thought that those people were hit with the kids.

I don't know if there were just they were, you know, just kind of in one area or whatever, But yeah, that that was just my person I think.

I think at w W shows, it's just annoying and like, where why.

Are these kids here?

Like I just want to watch them wrestling with grown ups and watch grown up product And it's just like it's hard to do.

Or it's hard to uh have that perspective.

When you look around and be like, I'm enjoying the same thing I don't on different levels.

But is this you know, eight year old next to me?

Granted, where we like different things and stuff and I read Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. I can't talk about liking things that kids like. But but it is just a little, it's a little it's it's annoying at w W con shows as as how many at how many kids and families? Not really annoying, but just but I think that's what it is. Get not Yeah, I just feel I do feel like an old man sometimes.

But I don't think it wasn't that there weren't any kids. It's just w W just has packed.

They count on, uh families bringing don't go to a house show.

It's like where are your powers? They are just kids here. It's no girl.

Lips but yeah, yeah, and then when you go to the WWE shows, I mean so much of it is aimed at the kids, just whereas as an adult it's like, man, that this stuff is just not for me. Whereas when you go to the aw show, it's aimed at adults, but then the kids come along because it's the cool thing to watch.

Uh Joe.

Actually, so we don't forget talk about what it was like sitting extra Jurassic Express, just like talk about the context of when they arrived, how long they were there. I know you mentioned to me they like never talked to each other.

Yeah, so that that was kind of weird.

So they came out before the Darby Allen Sammy Guvara match. That was after they I believe they had some promo on the big screen that's saying they were going to watch that match closely. And then they came out and people were all excited around us, and Marco Stunt just looked thrilled. He was thrilled to be a ringside and he was taking pictures of the ring, he was taking.

Pictures with fans. But then they were just kind of sitting there.

For God, I'm trying to think at least through the Nila Rose and christat Lander match, because Marco caught the mask from Nyla Rose. But they were just kind of sitting there and they weren't super engaged with the rest of the show, and they just kind of looked confused as to why they were there, and they didn't talk to each other really. It seemed like they just wasn't communicated to them that like, hey guys, it's time to

That's that's weird that they're not like interacting or even putting on any kind of just like the optics the visual of getting along and reacting.

To the to what was happening, Like what was the point?

Yeah, I mean like when first when they came out, there was a bunch of kids who came up and they wanted to get pictures and all that stuff. But after a while, I mean, like not to pick too hard on him, but I mean like Jungle Boys just kind of like looking around and he's just kind of

Gosh, it's Jurassic Express.

They're sitting in the crowd, but nothing was really happening with them, and it was clear that they weren't going to do anything with them after this Darby Allen match. Yeah, So they were just sitting there for a long time.

And do you have any guess what the point I mean, they showed him on camera, I think just once like, do you have any idea what like if there was a larger purpose that they didn't fulfill or are you just sort of perplexed?

I to be honest, I was perplexed because, you know, they One of the things I'm sitting so close to the ring is that there is so much going on around the show where you're hearing, you know, aw crew, their security, all sorts of people are talking and communicating about all the different moving parts, and that was one of the things where I just never saw, you know, anyone really communicating to them about what they were supposed

Booze and stuff like that.

So most people who were there were kind of briefed if they were sitting in that area. But yeah, I mean they just kind of came out there and they got they pulled up their seats there and they were just sitting there for a while and nothing happened, and then all of a sudden they just left.

Yeah, they were, they were they were like running lines basically, like after the crowd had started coming in. What do you mean, Like they're going through like you're going to do this, so he's going to kiss you and blah blah blah and like fans that people are there.

Oh, so like they were. Yeah.

So they just had one aw official who was talking to Hey, your's wife and he was just saying like, all right, so you're gonna be here in this area and then and then he's gonna come out, and they didn't like say like oh and then the whole kissing spot and all just direct.

I mean to specific, but they're they're man means okay, that's yeah. That bothers me. Maybe I should yeah.

Well, And then there was another part too, where Cody there. I'm sorry, yeah, to add to that too, Travis. At one point, I don't know if they showed Cody's mom too much on the screen, but she she also came up like right next to me and was asking the security guard like where am I supposed to go?

Again?

He's like, all right, so you're supposed to go there. The seat's not ready yet, but just just wait, wait a few minutes here and then you can go over there in that section. So that was the only other kind of direction that I saw with the a W staff.

You got a produce the show, right, you're producing a live wrestling show that I think that kind of stuff is going to happen.

Yeah, right, absolutely did did.

Was how long was Hagar's j Hager's girlfriend there or what was a wife or girlfriend?

I should don't even know.

I believe it's his wife. Yeah, and she just came out.

It was just right before the the right before h the What am I trying to say?

The whole, like.

The entrance not entrance video, the promo to start the pay per view.

I guess that the video package.

Oh so she came out.

Yeah, so the for the opening of the show, So she came.

Out right before then. And then yeah, it was just a staff members like all right, here's the seat right here. So then he's he's gonna come out and just kind of gave the run through there and then I believe she exited with him, So he she hopped over the barricade and just exited with Yeah, that makes sense.

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So Eric, let's uh, let's pivot to in overall.

If you had anything like that, you would drop in the suggestion box for aew overall as as an engaged fan that you are of that product.

Is there anything about the lead up to.

The show, get before the show starts, as the show progresses, is there anything from you know, decades of go into different wrestling promoter shows that jumped out to you as needing perhaps needing some work or improvement. And then also, is there anything that just jumped out as like this is I didn't seen this before? Or this this that worked really well.

Well? The I mean, the TIV leading up to this pay per view since January first was some of the best, one of the best two month runs of American TV since the heyday of the Monday Night Wars.

I would think you missed the Heiden right era obviously.

Yes, I miss I had a fifteen year yap from what I remember, right, so, they you know that December eighteenth show that turned Travis off. It turned off a lot of people when the creepyzoids from the Dark Order were killing all the elite members, right, you're killing off all your baby faces. It was reminiscent of the nWo and and so they reset came Balls of Fire from January first through now so did a good job with

Well, I I was very very surprised at the lack of heat for MJF.

I mean, it was shocking how there.

Was little as many little booze as there was for MJF when he came out there. But yeah, the crowd just died after that tag match.

I mean that was it was.

It was a long, amazing match, but you know, going they had that, the women's match had the unfortunate spot of trying to follow that, and you know, there's a lot of people who got up, they chose that match in the long show to get up and go to the bathroom or do whatever else they needed to do.

I meant the vocals were wretchet.

Yeah, the vocals it was. It was bad karaoke and.

You couldn't I was. I was sitting on the floor, but in the side opposite the ramp, and you couldn't make it out on our side of the arena. And I'm told that people in the upper deck had a hard tang hearing any of the ring announcements or anything. So I don't know if it was just poorly miked for inside the building or what, but yeah, that was a problem.

Yeah, and so that just that took away from people's excitement.

For that match, because that that's a highlight of the show.

People love singing along to that, and a lot of the chatter around me was you know that that Cody tattoo.

On his neck.

I mean people were focused on that thing and being like, what is that? And of course it's the Nightmare logo, but man, it just kind of felt like all these other things were just going on to distract people from the beginning of it. But I feel like they got people back towards the end, but it just had a rough start.

I had high expectations for that Cody match. The feud was pretty well done and it was a great story Cody going through all the obstacles, taking the whipping on TV and the year twenty twenty somehow, and that, you know, I had the match at three stars. I just maybe it came across better on TV, but it was just it was the It could also suffered from my high expectations, right. I was hoping for something in the four stars plus area, and they never really hit that gear.

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I think it's I think it was all it was, if you might be honest something there. It was about the journey, and then when he finally got to the destination, it fell a little flat. How much of it was that? How much of it was the tag title match? The crowd still was was sort of spent from How much of it the fact that you know, neither MJF is I wouldn't call him green, but he's not like a ten fifteen year ring veteran. How much of it was

Right, Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Joel.

Yeah.

And especially the ending of that match.

Yeah, we had to watch the replay there to see that he took the ring because it just it came off weird in person, the way that ended, where Cody's just all of a sudden, he hits he hits all these crossroads and you're thinking, man, he's building up to the finish, and then just all of a sudden, MJF hits him in the head and that's done.

And that just felt super weird to me.

And also MJF getting busted open so early in the match. It's like, man, I could understand later on if Mjf's taking this huge beating from Cody, but that also just felt really out of place for me.

How early he bladed himself. Yeah, that it was just weird.

Travis, You're your thoughts on Cody jat too cute?

Uh?

The finish was.

I didn't I don't know how it showed on TV. But I didn't notice the international object until he was like shoving it back in his tights, and I was like, what happened to me?

I know that it was a boom boom boom.

Kind of thing, but you know the how they're saying how Lawler could pull a ten chain out of his wrap it around his hand and punch a guy in the face, put it, sneak it back in his trunks and the crowd would go nuts, and he could literally pantomime the whole thing and not have a chain like there was no show of again, it was a it was a bang bang play, so to speak. So I guess maybe MJF didn't have a just didn't have the opportunity.

I'm like, it didn't hit me like, oh, it was probably his diamond ring.

That is that he wouldn't but it was just a little bit too cute at the end. If they would have did that a little differently, I think it comes off a little better.

The match as a whole I thought was fine.

I didn't think about it until you just bought it up about the cage match and Wardlow headed into that match, I said, this is I said, Wardlow has to show.

I say, how's the guy get his first TV?

How's his first match is the main event of a major show, major storyline arc, and it's in the cage. He's got to perform. And then he did, And I think that might have been the problem. That match probably should have been a six minute kind of just not dud, but not as great as it was.

To lead in two weeks later it too a big match.

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Travis, I'm curious your thoughts on Cody, your impression of Cody as a as a top centerpiece star and attraction for ae.

W, like does does your cause?

Again, you're not.

Watching his journey every week.

You're not, you know, like Eric watching being the an AW dark and all in on the a W product and along for the journey. You're more representative of somebody that AW needs to win over to grow. When you get dropped into the eight W world like you happen a couple of times. What do you think of Cody in this role? Do you buy it or do you have skepticism? Do you look around going what do you guys see? Or do you feel there's some magic here?

I buy it? In until he wrestles.

Yeah, him in the suit, cutting promos and being passionate, and it'd be nice if you didn't cut you know. I'm you know, thanks for coming to the show. All that kind of stuff. Again, just immediately after this emotional thing, he's like, you know, thinks and he's doing his executive producer thing.

It's like, let Tony Kahan do that, like you just had this. But no.

But so I buy the character of Cody Roose. I buy the swag I uh uh, you know, Brandy, that.

Whole package, that whole his whole look and aesthetic.

It's just when he when it's time to wrestle, it's just like, well, you're not as good as like an athlete, as like a like a ricochet or maybe not even somebody that's so you know, dynamic, but and but you're not as big as even like a Randy Orton to to do certain to make certain things look legitimate. So he's to me, he's a little stuck in between as a as a wrestler, strictly as a wrestler, but as a character, as a as a just outside of the ring.

I do buy.

It, and I think I think, if you have to have one or the other, I will go with character and personality every time. I think one hundred years of pro wrestling has taught us that that dynamic personalities and micability draws a whole lot more money. Then this is awesome. This is awesome. Work great, that's awesome.

It is.

I love a good, you know, five star match like the next person. But if I if you're going to have one over the other, having some personality is probably you know what, you what you'd want your.

Attributes to be a little little bumped up and and Cody's got that.

It's just I don't buy him the physicality and and the n ring stuff.

But he makes up for it by with his psychology.

He's one of the few wrestlers in a w that I that I when I watched his matches. No matter what I think of his punches or suplex he knows when to do certain things and how to draw you in.

So that takes talent.

So that's that's I'm kind of tearing down my own own argument because that's certainly is an in ring charisma.

That I that I just talked about that he maybe didn't have as much of.

I think that too, is like is uh. One of the things that people really do like about Cody is that his matches are not like you know Cody or not like Cody, like Kenny Mega and the Young Bucks, where those guys are going I mean, obviously there's psychology to theirs matches, but they're these high athletic contests, where as a Cody match is more about these you know, plotting out these stories that borrow things from wrestling of yesteryear, of things that people remember from you know, more than

I mean, you think of Nick.

All this, he had a fantastic match with him at all in That was the first time where I heard the crowd and I wasn't sold on Cody before that, but hearing that crowd in Chicago for that Nick All this match, I mean, Cody got the biggest reaction. And we're talking about Kenny Omega in the middle of the IWGP Heavyweight Championship rain. We're talking about Kazuchko, Kada, Cody Abushi,

Uh, Eric, what do you, Yeah, what do you think of Cody?

Cody? So I'm going to a somewhat different respective in that I never saw Cody wrestle in WWE because I wasn't paunching wrestling at the time.

That's fascinating.

Is he's a lot Is he a lot have a lot more weight and muscle on him than when he started out in WWE?

Is that group?

So that's I mean, but.

He was never Eric.

He was never the super athletic guy like Cody wasn't. The issue with Cody was I would say it was an issue, but like he wasn't looked at as oh, this young kid who's just advancing the style. He's always had an old school, deliberate kind of pace and vibe, even when he was you know, early mid twenties.

So he's so I think what it was his nickname, three Star Cody. I seem to.

Remember that a time or two.

Yeah, and and so uh, so for me, he like he just looks like he has too much muscle for his frame. Maybe and that caught might cause him to be a little clumsy. But as Travis said, it's it's it's more you know, it's a hell of a lot more important how you are in the mic and how you put your majesty together in your psychology. That's going to put more butts in seats than than being a five star worker. And so, uh, Cody is just to me.

Maybe so I didn't just to go back six months or eight months. I didn't get that in the match the guy like bashed him in the head with a with a implement, kicked him in the balls, his wife, I think his wife. I kicked him in the balls, slapped him, didn't beat him in the match.

And then after he's like, brother, I love you, I can't do it.

I was just and then people were like you said you were in tears, and I'm looking around, like, what's happening? We did we what about the twenty minutes that just that we just saw, like the blood he'd.

Like tried to end that man's life.

We're like, oh, look at the brothers there, and yeah, I just remember being super frustrated back then. And that's I'll come and come back to me because of the because of your comment.

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And it's fascinating.

Eric.

I'm gonna go to your first on this because you haven't seen much of Moxley in the Shield, and you haven't seen much of Chris Jericho post Monday Night War, and here they are headlining and and sent, you know,

He's he's the same age as you, You and you and me?

Uh, what you think of him being the guy chosen and how he's performing as a top act in.

Eight lu oh, He's he's been great. He's been fantastic. So I you know, tracked him through w CW and then even his ww E tenyure like the Y two j tenure, and he was great then, but he had a lot of good will built up with me from his New Japan appearances, so uh, you know. Travis mentioned that cutting promos is a is a big part of drawing wrestling well in New Japan. It's you know, it it's it can be a little flavorless from time to time, or it's a it's a different kind of way they

So, Travis, what do you think about Jericho?

Not watching him week by week, but having seen so much of his career, what do you think of what you saw Saturday night?

In particular.

Yeah, I think Jericho from two thousand to probably till Diana Ambrose showed up on WW was probably my favorite wrestler, like just absolute gotta have one two tapes that I bought at like indie shows, and it was Jericho and Mysterio Bring the O to Japan on VHS that I got in like two thousand and one or something. So he's he's been my guy. This has been the best.

Why? And he's been so good up to this point, Like why are they.

Doing this this silly, silly stuff.

But yeah, Jericho's is really good.

I thought he was the obvious pick when when they're talking about an AW you know who's going to be the inaugural champion. But but like I think Eric said, I didn't expect it to work out as as well as as well as it didn't. I expected him to retain somehow tonight or or Saturday night.

So that was a bit of a good surprise. I guess, yeah, he's not. He's not like, no, I'm only I can carry.

This company kind of you know, he's not doing that thing, at least not yet.

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Well Joel where were you on Chris Jericho as of last summer heading in or you know, heading into October, actually heading into the tournament finals, actually be hanging that page, and.

Then and then where are you now?

And and then I want to shift and kind of pivot into a discussion you kind of lead the way in this regard on the decision actually shift the title off of him, and your thoughts on that now a couple days remote, a few days remote.

Yeah, So I'll actually go back a little bit further to when he was in WWE for his last run, when he was doing the list, and I thought that that was just kind of a one note gimmick where it's like, man, Jericho is capable of doing so much more than this, and I understand it's getting over with the audience, but it's just another cartoonish WWE thing. And thus far with Jericho, he has found like this nice blend of where he's able to do some of those kind of fun things that he does enjoy.

He enjoys doing some.

Of those kind of outlandish, funny things, but also being able to reel it in and get serious. The way that he was building up that match against Hangman, where he justs this crazy madman and he's like.

I have to beat the hangman.

I have to be the hangman.

You know, going in there and then saying, you know that he's the top guy.

Everyone thought that it was gonna be a Kenny Omega, but now I'm the top guy.

So he's just found this great blend where everything he does is so entertaining. He pulls so much from these rock stars that he enjoys, like Paul Stanley, where he tries to say all these different things that gets the crowd going, where he does different inflections, and where it just has this certain kind of charisma because he's the only one who talks that way. But again, yeah, he's

Wait, can he just do that? I mean, I get he's the chant, but like stip's got to mean something.

Yeah, I assure Cody, Yeah, can't challenge.

Well, I don't know if it's clear not whether it's just Cody you know, his own word, or if it's something in writing or not where they're Cody or not. Can just say yeah, I guess I will challenge for the title. So it seemed to me like that was just a line that Moxley in the moment was saying, I don't know if it's leading into any program or not.

And one other thing before you jump up in Joe, sorry, but the crowd I could not believe. I could believe it, but I was just looking around like that entire audience knew every word to Jericho's song.

I was like, Oh, that's what that meme means.

I am becoming. I didn't understand. I kept seeing in the wrestling group the meme and they let me know, like what that meant. So, yeah, that was That was awesome to watch.

I think it's hard for us to know in a vacuum without knowing what aw has both planned in the future and whether you know there wasn't there a rumor that Jericho's band is going on a tour this summer and it's going to be overseas and maybe, uh, he's not going to be around week to week for part of the summer, so they wanted to get the belt off of him. It felt a little premature to me.

Moxley, it's a full circle. It's his hometown.

I just so, Yeah, like Vegas were just thinking it was it was just set not his hometown originally from Sency, but his current hometown is residential home.

Yeah.

But but I think you had a point that that I think they they thought they had to pull the trigger.

So are they So are they doing that? Because so one of the things that's been a little off on with Dynamite this is true for NXT two, uh, is the pacing of the weekly television shows. It's when you have three months between pay per views. Man, that is a long time and it's hard to fill. Sometimes you can't. You can't set up a match on Wednesday and then save it all the way till Vegas. The it would have peaked, the feud would have peaked, the angle would

I think WWE, I mean, they're all they're world champions, you know, only show up a couple times a year. Brock Lesnar, you know, is only there for you know, when he's building up a pay per view for the big shows. Otherwise he's gone. And now that they have Goldberg there, he's not going to be there every week. Who knows if he'll you know, hold it past WrestleMania. But yeah, whereas Jericho is pretty much on AW, you know every week. I think there was one exception where

Going all the way back to to win.

Yeah.

Yeah, so he was supposed to face Hangman Page at double or nothing. Then the plan was for Pack to face Kenny Omega.

There was a cascating effect of changes that really, yeah.

And so who knows.

Who knows what their original plan was that they had in place, And to me, it seems like there was almost there was a lot of things that were shifting around. But then going to this show and there were so many heels that were winning, it just seemed like, man, they got to do something and that's going to send the crowd home happy. So yeah, that that also I think played a played a factor into John Moxley winning, but it very much felt premature to me. I mean,

Oh, yeah, he did win, this is great, this is cool. Instead instead of like the culmination of something. Does that make sense?

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What I thought about Boxley.

Well, I was there to see the you know when when he showed up in Vegas Lash and in May, and I watched the first seven.

Don't undercut my question, Travis.

On me. No, I saw the de germination of that and then I saw so.

But like I said earlier about a w or maybe I didn't, Moxley has They've taken all my interests in him away.

I don't care about John Moxley anymore.

And I guess it's champion now and seeing seeing them win the win the title. But that first two months of TV, I was just like, we're.

All we're all questioning that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that's that's a great point that you bring up, Travis, because that way and I talked about too was that, Like, why did he not? Because I thought the first segment that happened on aw Dynamite should have been job Ocxuley coming out there and stating his claim, you know, with all that intensity, and he did it several weeks later.

But I'm like, man, you had that. You had the chance where all these new people.

Were watching, people who had watched WWE, some people you know who aren't watching being the late followed them in New Japan, but they could. They had that chance to see this guy and really ride that momentum, and they just didn't do it.

Didn't have Japan commitments. And then he got a staff in section. I don't remember the timing of that. I know he missed the match.

That's the kind of the beginning of the cascading effects of probably changing some of the layout of the timing of some of the big matches.

So tries.

I want I want to ask a follow up on Moxley and where you are now watching Saturday Night in terms of your your belief in the idea that maybe he's the lead babyface that they're going to build around for a while, Moving away from the discuss the timing of it and whether Jericho deserve to have about more if if, if circumstances allowed for it. Just what do you think of Moxley what you saw Saturday Night as a guy that would intrigue you as a lead centerpiece Babyface world champion character?

Ask?

Sorry as yeah, so where where are you on Moxley now? Is the lead centerpiece Babyface compared to and setting aside? You know, the the timing of it, or Jericho might have been better or whatever.

I'm fine, I'm I'm interested because now if he's the champion, I can't imagine they're going to have him. I'm gonna be bored with him or uninterested like I was the first few months of Dynamite.

Uh so, so him is him is champ.

He's he's going to get be featured, and you would think he's gonna get the best stuff and the focus and the attention.

So I'm I'm okay with it.

It's maybe it's my maybe it's some of my personal comeback story for for for as a Dina sorry, but as a as a Moxley fan, former Deena Ambrose fan.

A lot of it had to.

Do with how hard I defended on every platform I was on that match with Lesner and how Lesner was a big old diva and didn't want to give Moxley anything. And everybody's like, yeah, but he probably wanted to go in there and do garbage craft. I was like, no, he's not dumb enough to go in there and do that to himself. And then he has the blood bath nonsense with and and I think that more than anything, was the uh this this kind of Camel's back straw thing with with Moxley as a character in a w

Yes, I don't think.

It's portraying Moxley in a good way as a centerpiece a positive for you to get you to watch beyond just you know you're feeling a little invested right now because of attending Saturday, Like, does Moxley as champion make you more likely to watch him?

When Jericho was I wasn't there.

And I heard like it in the group chat or the wrestling group of reps like, oh, Moxley just won the title. I probably had the same reactionly, Oh, I guess I gotta watch Wednesday.

Yeah, So, Eric, what do you think of of John Moxley, what's your impression of him, having not seen the whole Shield journey and and where are you on.

The decision for him to win Saturday.

I saw the end of this Shield journey when he was wearing the gas mask fire. I sometimes catch parts of Yeah, yeah, he looked miserable. The angles was terrible. It just you know, it was it was not good. I've heard him talk in interviews about how happy he is. He's a the whole you know, how he like moves his He's loosey goosey with his shoulders. He kind of does you know, kind of does the standard. He's always done that. But it's just I liked him in New Japan.

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Joel, what do you think about that aspect of Moxley? Just is the.

Ground fertile for him to because remember going way back to like when Sting beat Rick Flair back in nineteen ninety I was in Baltimore For that event, it felt like the crowning moment of this new era, and then the next few months were flat because they didn't have not Sting was very limited once he wasn't in the ring with Flayer, who made him look twice as good.

As he was at that point.

But also they just didn't have good challenges for him, and it's stalled WSW and it just took the wind out of sting sales. Is there a risk of that with Moxley based on the lay of the land or are there one or two challengers you think they can get that fit storyline wise given the lay of the land that you're excited about.

Yeah, I mean that that was my immediate reaction to Moxle witting the title is where do they go from here? Because aw has done a really good job where you can kind of see where them laying the groundwork for their next pay per view.

You know where's it going to go next.

Especially when Moxley made his debut last year at Doubler Nothing, you knew that that match was going to be against Omega, and that was something to get really excited about.

But for Moxley, I mean, I just.

I can't imagine, you know, him headlining against MJF at double or nothing.

I just don't see that.

I mean, there's a lot more that they can do with MJF to elevate him to that point, but I I just can't see that being there. And he's already face Pack, you know several times on TV already. You know, Kenny Omega's not there, hey man Page, you know, they're already kind of tied up in their own things. So really, the only thing I can see from Oxley at this point is doing some sort of rematch against Jericho. I mean, Jericho's is the antagonist. I mean, yeah, I mean, Jericho's

Super hardcore stuff like Moxley.

But yeah, that's it's a questionable decision for me because I just don't see what else they can do at this point where other people aren't tied up in their own feuds.

As we keep talking here, any of you want to jump in with a topic or discussion from having attended Saturday Night in person in particular about being at the show, or brought her about booking, you.

Know, just someone jump in and take over at the topic.

Well this I'm going against your thing, but this isn't about but being in the house. But there was a clickbaity ad or click baby headline about major w W personality uh seen backstage revolution and it was Renee Young and I thought, wait, so she wasn't even at or she she probably she wasn't at the show. At the Baltimore show, I guess was with the bloodbath with Omega and she she was at home tweeting like god, no, please stop. And I said, oh, that's why she's backstage.

Run to the ring, throwing the towel, or she wants to make medical decisions at the hospital in person maybe.

And she was.

She was at the Tokyo Dom too.

I actually saw her in the hallway, you know, I got up during one of the matches and she was just walking around and people wanted to take pictures with her and stuff.

There too.

That's cool.

Wait, I'll attempt to answer your question. Yeah, Orange Cassidy was so way more over than I thought he would be in a match. Yeah, you know, to Travis's point from a while back to me, you either get a Marco Stone or you get an Orange Cassidy on your weekly TV show. But you don't get both right. One act like that, you can you can, you can, you can sit through, but two it gets it gets to be a little corny. I bought exactly I went to

No, that's that's kind of a standard. Yeah, maybe the intensity because of you know, it's and he's in there with pack and I'm not any None of the matches I've seen on YouTube have been with the caliber wrestler that Pock is so so so maybe that had something to do with it and being on a pay per view, you know, and not just some indie show with you know, a hundred people there.

But it is the base of how he works.

The build up to to him, you know, he's, oh he might care or whatever the chance is.

And and that's kind of standard again with some deviations.

And this match too, was a little bit longer, I thought than his typical indie matches. But I mean the amount of merchandise that this guy sells at these at these events, I mean is unbelievable. I mean, we had heard from a lot of people in the arenas at Dynamites that you know, Orange Cassidy sells a lot of these shirts. But the amount of those freshly squeezed orange shirts with the thumb on it, I mean that that was crazy to me. I mean, there are so many people wearing those shirts around there.

We took a trip to Pro Wrest some tees and he, you know, outside of the Bucks in Jericho, he's, uh, he has.

The most stuff. I think he has two T shirts.

He's got a foam some he's got all kinds of other nick knacks that you can.

That you can buy.

So yeah, he's he's doing all right as far as that goes.

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We talked about at the beginning Darby Allen, an undersized guy who you want to utilize against money, top tier money guys because there's just something about him. And and now Orange Cassidy with maybe a breakout moment for the national audience against a super credible opponent in Pac who people would have thought should destroy him. And yet the way that was booked, it didn't come across as if it was like, well, PAC was being charitabled Orange Cassidy.

What do you do with him going forward? Though? Is he a special attraction six times a year? I mean, credibly speaking, who can he be? Seativity? You know, what are your Peter Avalons of the world. You're Brandon Cutler's. But who beyond that?

I mean, you keep.

Doing what you're doing. You don't have until it stops working. I don't see why you need. There's no need to go get away for if the best friends, if they're going to still have them on TV, and he doesn't have to be out there wrestling every week. Just come out there and his outfit and his hands in his pockets and his and his thumbs in the middle, and and that's like he might have another match.

Yeah, you can add like Seawan Spears to the mix, like he's somebody who you.

Go he could certainly could be and probably should be Seawan Spears type.

And I think you could do something effective with Jake Hager for instance, like I just you don't have to work.

Don't put him in against the.

Top three heel in a top three pay per view match, But I think you can get away with having moment heels who fans would just delight in seeing showing up by him.

And it's okay to kind.

Of run with it if it's working in the slot that it's in, Joel, what do you think?

Yeah, and also just not doing the same thing every week. I mean, I think that he should go back to kind of doing that role of being with the best friends you know, on you know, outside at ringside there, but also then just got they can build that to be you know, a special at track action for Dynamite shows. I mean, that is something that I think would draw

Yeah, in six months, have they looped the country yet?

Like, there's no reason that they should take this thing all around until it until they've realized, Okay, it's time to evolve the character, move on with or move.

In a different direction or whatever.

But but as long as it's working, I don't think there's and it's working, so there's no reason to deviate this early.

Definitely, anyone else want to jump in with the topic, We're kind of well, we'll get to the wrap up stage here with the next you know, one or two quickies.

I had two things to say pretty quickly.

The thing about Jake Hager, I didn't see anything from him that that makes me think that this.

Is a new guy, you know. I mean I still thought this is just a WWE guy. Jack Swagger. He's back out here.

He's doing a little different with an MMA sort of gimmick, but there's really nothing reinvigorated that I saw with this guy. And then the other thing is that the crowd wants to see young Bucks, Page, Omega, those elite guys.

They want to see them in the main event.

I mean, I think that at some point or another they got to get to having those guys main eventing consistently.

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Yeah, we didn't talk a lot about Hangman Page, and I did kind of want to get into them so let me, uh, let me just ask you Eric, your thoughts on what what they should do next with Hangman Page, even if it's sort of inconvenient the way in which he's getting over given what seemed like the direction of the story, and and what do you think about the prospects of just the Bucks going all out here?

Is that?

Is that maybe a good move as they tell the story.

Real quickly, the Bucks, the fans aren't going to boo them. I don't know what they would have to do to get booed. I mean, they're just so such.

They did a little bit in Chicago, a little bit.

Yeah, well they were working. They were working heel, but they were also working. They were we're going to heal style against Page. I don't know what. I don't know how they were handling that on the announcing, if they were noting that or if they were just saying the Bucks were being aggressive. But Hangman Page, Man, he really came the one G one. He had what would that be twenty eighteen, He sort of had his coming out

Before and being surrounded by people who judge you for drinking you know, who would have expected wrestling fans to rally around that guy?

Yeah? And uh so you know, I mean it worked for Sandman too, right on that micro level with E c W or a stone hold obviously, But but I think I get the sense Hangman is kind of a thoughtful person, Like he's not a dumb you know, a dumb jock type, not a dumb meathead. But it seemed like they had a hard time figuring out a way to get him over, and and now they have. And uh, you could try and turn him heel all you want, but all you're gonna do is get the fans too too.

It was the Jericho Cruise.

Okay, on the cruise, so that was middle of January. The storyline is only two months old, but it feels like in TV time, it's been going on for four or five, you know, And so are they really gonna they have to pull the trigger on this before the Las Vegas pay per view and Memorial Day? Right? I mean they got to have some sort of turn at some point. Does he turn on them in the War Games? I'm sorry, Blood and Guts match in at the end

I'm just thinking how long you guys will be quiet? Travis? What do you think of Hangman?

Oh?

Great, now Joel talks and now I have to I'm gonna go to Travis. Travis, what do you think of of Hangman page as a as as an emerging act that they could do something big with, Like or do you look at him and be like what's all this about?

Yeah?

Did not care for the guy heading into it into double or nothing right?

And then he's in the he wins.

The Battle Royal to get a title shot that the twelve year old kid and the legless guy had also had a chance to get a World Championship title match.

So so that's staying that stink.

I was like just whatever, I don't get it that, okay, he's got the the the lariat.

Cool.

Then I saw the bromo and I got Then then Rich would tell me, give me recaps on VIP what happened on Dynamite, and like, okay, I don't get the drinking stuff. I wouldn't want to be around him, Like why are they playing up that he's it's one thing to be the ass kicking, beer drinking guy. It's another thing to be the guy portrayed as the jerk because he's always drunk like that. So I just didn't get where they were going. And then I saw the sit down interview with JR. And the Bucks, and I got

Leading to them losing the titles and in him.

And Omega feud, or they lose the titles which leads to bitterness and then he turns and him and Omega

Believe how you know, that cowboy ish chant.

Was was was was really awesome. I think for me, Page was probably the best part of that show. And I was not a fan of his, say a month ago, even two weeks ago.

Yeah, yeah, they're.

Very indifferent that I wasn't a fan.

I was just said, yeah, yeah, that's it's it's that that's what's so fun about somebody with with money and ideas like Tony Connan, really the whole group, that how they deal with things that that are unexpected I won't say gifts, but like unexpected pleasant surprises, and and how they deal with it and how nimble they are and do they take advantage of it. Vince Wickmann doesn't do that very well. You know, when when Daniel Brian falls

And then you end up getting to put him on the poster for your biggest show.

You have to because the fans still it's damaged and they resent you for it, but they're not going to they're not going to give in. And here you have have Hangman Page and the fans are are speakings.

So Joel, I know you're gonna Joe in a minute ago, So go ahead.

Now, yeah, I mean, I mean with Hangman Page, I mean we're talking about so many things that happened on

But my question with him is just where do they go with this?

As I point out before in some of our podcast way where there's so many directions. And that's what makes this whole feud with the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega is so interesting because there are so many paths that they can go down, and I'm just not sure which one is the right one. You know, if Hangman does all of a sudden turn on Kenny Omega, you know, how do the fans react to that? Does that you know turn do this whole big heel turn for Hangman Page?

Does that work for him?

Or you know, are the Young Bucks all of a sudden going to become you know, full time heels or do you do something where you know, Hangman Page, you know, starts a bond with Kenny Omega that no longer that there's a turn there they start to have a bond and then maybe something like Kenny Omega turns heel on Hangman Page. There's so many different directions they can go, and just I think it's a very just fragile situation as to what they do with that.

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Yeah, real quick, I saw in the hall.

We stayed in the same hotel as the wrestlers at the Marquis Mariott.

So we saw Hagar and his wife in the hallway. I told him, well, good luck, Moxley.

They saw him around like on Michigan Michigan or Michigan Street, acrossing the street, just in some sunglasses in the jacket with a bag of you know, maybe some Harold's Fried chicken or something, or maybe it's just some snacks. I don't know, but he had a bag of some food. And at the at the hotel bar Friday night, Tony Kahan was there at the security. Just a bunch of folks that you guys certainly would I would know who they are.

Yeah, that's actually it was crocus like it was.

It was, uh, you know, it wasn't like I don't I don't think anybody who was, you know, streaking across the bar or anything.

But you know, from like as soon as you.

Got off the elevator, you would hear like, oh there, oh there's a happening going on.

So yeah, everybody's having a good time.

I'm glad you a hotel. Go ahead, way, No, no, Joe, I was kind of shifting on. Was that where was that hotel?

Travis?

Was that right across from the arena or was that close?

No, no, no, the arena is connected to wind truss, which is connected to the con.

It's all all three of those.

Buildings are connected by like bridges, air brigs or whatever.

So I didn't I didn't even sky, but yeah, sky bridges. I never had to take take twenty degrees. I was like, we're gonna are reconnected? Do I have to bring my jacket?

Nope, go right down the hall and make a left and the right and the left and you're there. Same with the con Sunday night when or Sunday when. When I went to C two E two, I.

Thought the merchandise at the event kind of sucked. I didn't think the T shirts were very good. I got I got there right before maybe it's six six fifteen, because the traffic was so bad with the with the con and the wrestling of been going on. But I was willing to, you know, part with a whole lot of money and I ended up not buying anything. So I thought their T shirt game was supposed to be the part that was on point being a T shirt promotion before they got their weekly to me, of course.

Yeah, they don't have the best designs. I'm not.

I'm not a fan of that first run when they when they dropped all those about two months ago, all the logos and stuff that you were going to be able to get on the merge. As you're saying, eh, I mean, it's it's just kind of typical wrestler logo stuff.

None of it jumped out to.

Me as this is a cool shared I'd wear, but I don't wear wrestling shirts.

Felt like they had a lot less merchandise too, you know, compared to the last previous events. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed like they had a smaller selection, and they certainly have a much smaller selection than when you go to WWE shows.

I lied, I do wear wrestling shirts. My wrestling shirt that I wore said outlaw much show, so I was I was very popular at an aw share show with the shirt on.

Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Past cast Every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feed. Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by taking you through the Torch issue from that very weak follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time, as

So it's so Eric just any brushes with fame or observations from being there, and also a little perspective on how kind of the buzz coming in and out of the building differs from other big wrestling events in Chicago market.

You know, well, the All In and All Out shows were fly in shows fans across the country who were gonna have a good time whether the card was great or the card sucked, because they had too much invested to let it fail. And unfortunately both of those cards cards delivered it a big way. This show probably had fewer traveling people, but and and there wasn't as much heat as All In and All Out, but it was

There was punk chance at one point too.

There was especially ironically, yeah, are we to that stage yet we're channing?

See them? Punk is ironic instead of sincere.

If you saw his line at c T E two Sunday Sunday at noon, the fact that m j s line was around the corner, and later when he left Darby Allen's line was around the corner. And then Mike and my man Hammertail went right up to see him punk and was oh and literally just walked right up and got yeh okay.

It was such so scarce.

Mike told me he a guy in front of him because it was a friend of punks, like a local pal of his, and they talked.

For like two or three minutes.

Wow, his line at all was super long.

Yeah, you're not going to get ironic CM punk chance in Chicago of all places, it's his, you know, it's.

Worth Also Also, the Pro Wrestling Tea's booth where he was was not in the prime location compared to the AW booth that.

Was pretty much right when you walked in.

You know, they had a big old a w and plus they were giving out tote bags and you know, backpacks and stuff. So I think a lot of the attention attention just went to who had to you know, it was their weekend.

So yeah, yeah, Eric, anything else saw just observations, So the running.

You know, this venue was in the just south of downtown Chicago. It's a lot easier for people to get to public transportation wise. The Seer Center way out in the burbs. You you got to drive there, Yeah, can't take public transportations. So I don't I'm not sure I would. I feel like that should mean that the crowd might be a little more diverse when they're running this. Uh to Paul University Boondogle Arena. I'm sorry, it's a local experience thing we trust. Yeah, As opposed to the Seers Center,

You.

Which tends not to sell out for wrestling. It did for w c W during the Monday Night Wars era. But I think they're Chicago was definitely a home base when you're having I don't know if this is going to be a continuing thing going forward to out of the four pay per views a year in Chicago. But it's clearly a home base for them, and selfishly, because I'm local, I'm all on board with that they.

Should pull back on doing so many Chicago shows and I I just said, do until do stuff till it till it stops working well. But when it comes to comes to towns, that's not a chance. I think you should, you should, you should take.

Yeah, they didn't sell out the Dynamite show the night before Thanksgiving at Cear Center. I mean, I can't remember what the crowd was. Was it six thousand, five thousand? It wasn't full.

So so, Joel, we kind of touched on your brushes of fame at ringside, but anything else from before or after the show, that's kind of a fun anecdote to share from being there.

Let's see here. Yeah, no, not, it was.

It was a different experience because all the other e W shows I had been to had that star cast convention component with it, and so a lot of the fans were staying at the same hotels. You'd see the wrestlers kind of walking around. There was also a lot of you know, I guess you'd call them legend wrestlers, you know, alum, And you know, there just wasn't that this time, because I wasn't staying at the hotel for the convention. It was just kind of I stayed downtown.

Very cool. Hey guys, thanks, This was a lot of fun.

I haven't done this before, just talking to three people who attended a pay per view with such three different kind of approaches and backgrounds, and I think it worked out into a really fascinating discussion, at least from from my chair. So Travis, thank you, absolutely, thanks. Give give a quick plug Travis for for your your podcast and your Twitter.

Sure check us out Wednesday nights every Wednesday night live, six thirty Eastern the East Coast Cast. Find us on the East Coastcast dot com for all.

You know, time.

And all those things, and that you can follow me on Twitter at travelord and.

You can follow the show at East Coast Cast.

Awesome. Joel, thank you. How about plugs from you?

Yeah?

So I do the hit some missus columns for aw Dynamite every week and you can also find me on Twitter at Joel to Noel.

Awesome and Eric, thank you.

Fun catching up with you here on a podcast and getting your perspective.

Is there anything you would like to plug.

If you're in the Chicago area, you could subscribe to Chicago Tribune dot com. It probably would have lost you diety nine cents for three months. You know, print journalism is going the way of the dinosaurs and record stores and video stores and so diddie. You know, just trying to stay afloat and employed in journalism after twenty five years. But thanks again for having me. It was nice to be associated with PW. Torch once again.

Eric.

What's your beat right now?

I'm a deputy investigations editor, so I run a team of reporters that looks into political corruption. Fortunately in Illinois, there's a place full employment in Illinois prison.

Yeah.

Yeah, Oh, his post prison interviews were just amazing. What what Anderson Cooper did to him was was quite compelling.

Television.

Yes, uh, and hey, I want to take this opportunity everybody, subscribe to your local paper. It's journalism is important. The truth is important in journalist.

Especially investigative.

Yes, that's huge and in you know.

Yeah, it's just as journalists get maligned in certain circles, those same people who am align them are out there, you know, claiming a crowd of eighty six hundred is thirty thousand and and there's things when you can fact check facts, you realize that people are saying the media lies all the time. Are the liars? And and so it's it just subscribed to your local paper. Support journalism. It is some of the best money you'll spend.

Chip in.

Do your part in some form or fashion, because it's important for city hall to get covered and local politics, including what you do.

Eric, So you know, thank you for what you do.

Thank you.

Yes, all right, I try to.

Verify, uh yeah, that there was thirty thousand people in attendance for revolution.

Yes, cool, I just got it.

Air's got to investigate.

Man, Yes, yes, thank you exactly. Thanks so much, guys.

Thank you.

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