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Jason Powell from Pro Wrestling dot Net joined me and we compared AW Dynamite to NXT on USA, including the ratings. We compared the shows on a number of levels, which Roster appeared to be stronger among them. Also w B statement about aw previewing SmackDown on Fox and what the Bruckloasner raymisterial angle might have been leading to the lone of Bobby Lashley situations, some announcing changes and more so
let's get to it. Is Today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast five years ago Flagship Flashback for Thursday, October third, twenty twenty four. All right, Jason, we are eagerly anticipating the ratings as we record this on Thursday afternoon, But just before we hit record, wwe sent out a statement that sounds classy but also conciliatory congratulations to AEW on
a successful premiere. The real winners of last night's had to telecast of NXT on USA and AW on T and T are the fans who can expect Wednesday nights to be competitive and a wild ride as this and these are key words, as this is a marathon, not a one night sprint. So to me, classy statement. I think they've got some medications early that they got their butts kicked in total viewership. What's your take on that, Jason, Yeah.
I think that's probably some of it. I also think that, you know, it's a shabby move. You know, it makes them look like decent people for acknowledging the competition, for congratulating them. It's yeah, I mean it's strategic, it's not. I don't think it's just out of the goodness of their hearts.
I agree it's strategic. I don't think that if they felt that they won by a three to one margin, because anything WWE does destroys any other competition. Because if you promote NXT on ron SmackDown and you're on USA network, no new company out of the blue is going to be able to take them on. And if they felt that way and had that level of confidence. I think
they just stay quiet. I don't think they would rub it in, But I just think the wording of that that it will be a competitive and wild ride, they're basically saying we're What I like about that statement is it says we want word out to our fans that when these numbers come out in a couple hours, if it doesn't look good for us, we're in this for the long run. This is going to be a competitive and wild ride and a marathon. That, in a way, is I think WWE sending a message to everybody going
we're not giving up on this. NXT might be in the smaller venue, it might be lower budget in certain ways, or look lower budget in certain ways, and maybe the viewership out of the gate was not good for us. We're not giving up. We're not waving a white flag. This is a marathon, and we're energized to fight back and stay with us and maybe keep their NXT fans from getting demoralized that AW just dominated again. This is premature because by the time anybody hears this, ratings.
Will be out.
Check out pw torch dot com and Pro Wrestling dot Net. For breaking ratings news and to get some key metrics. I'm hoping to get minute by minutes and quarter hours and break that down tonight. So check out PW torch dot com for that. Yeah, I mean to me and I like that too because I don't want I like hearing from WWE they're in this as a marathon that the NXT thing, Well, we're gonna try it for you know,
a two month run and then drop it. This sounds like they want to battle and that they want to eventually win.
Yeah. So you don't think they're going to congratulate the NWA when they premiered their new show on YouTube and Facebook next week.
No, they won't. Although if if impact Word to Run had to head with raw let's throw something out or let's say MPEC State on Friday nights and they're in primetime up against SmackDown and the ratings differential was sixty nine to one in favor of SmackDown. There's no message.
You know.
The message is because it truly is competitive, and I think the message is even more so because they know they lost this first week or they're quite sure.
Yeah, I mean, everything is pointing to that obviously by the time most people hear this, I would think that the numbers are going to be out, but I mean, just social media buzz. I'm guessing your poll reading numbers are showing something similar to it. Just as far as the count, it was not quite two to one. As far as people responding to in my poll for just to degrade both shows, and they were separate polls, but it was clearly AEW had a more response that way.
And that's you know, just a small sample size obviously, but it really does seem like there was a great deal of social media buzz regarding the AW show. That not that there wasn't any for NXT, but I do, based on what we've seen so far, I'm going to be surprised if AEW didn't win this first battle and do so, you know, in a sizable way. I just think that, I guess I'll be surprised. If it's close, I will too.
I mean, are my numbers, I think it was three point six times as many people watched ae W Live as watched NXT. Now that said the same night, DVR viewership is going to factor in in even things out more for people who watched both shows, and you know, Elizabeth Warren says, I have a plan for that. Well, I have a poll for that. You might not know that, Jason, because you're not following politics as closely as as ion. But that's kind of Elizabeth to follow anything. I know, yes,
but that's Elizabeth Warren's. The thing is if people wear T shirts, because she always says, if you have a question about something, I have a plan for that, let me tell you about it. So, but I have a poll for that. I asked on on Twitter this afternoon, which option below most closely matches your viewing experience of Wednesday nights wrestling options? Did you end up seeing both NXT and AAW ratings count same night DVR viewership? So nineteen percent said they watched NXT live and AWE DVR.
Forty one percent said they watched aw live and NXT on DVR. So you think, oh, well, that's only a two to one margin, right, Well, no, I only watched one show. I didn't specify which one, but twenty seven percent only watched one. And that's where I think AAW is going to increase that two to one lead by quite a bit. I only have four options on Twitter, so I couldn't break it down by showing this poll, but our earlier poll indicated that three point six to
one viewership advantage for AW. Now, again, this is not scientific random of all wrestling fans. It's only followers of PW Torch on Twitter who choose to vote in polls, so you know, all the caveats are there. But we were pretty close last week with a poll predicting the drop in NXT viewership on week two compared to week one.
It's not useless, it's just information for your consideration. Fourteen percent, and this number is really small, Jason, fourteen percent said they flipped back and forth live, and that number is lower than I thought. I what that indicates to me is people are very loyal to one brand in terms of watching it start to finish live. The lack of commercial interruptions or the split screen kept people loyal to
that show for the most part. And then they were a lot of people, looks like sixty percent then did go and watch the other show afterwards because it's still relatively early in the evening, and it's not they're not three hour shows, they're two hour shows. Are in two or ten minute shows. So I'm just surprised that hell lo the flip back and forth number.
Is Yeah, it's almost like we need a red zone channel. Yes, you just get the best of both, you know, they just kind of bounce back and forth. But I don't know. I mean with DVRs now, you know, back in the day, I got it, you know, I mean you could go do what we did and use VHS taps so you can see both shows. But I think it just was easier Monday Night for people to kind of flip back and forth. We're now with DVRs and you can speed
through the commercials. I guess I'm not as surprised as you are that there wasn't as much flipping as maybe there was back in the Monday Night War era.
So here's here's the Twitter verse reaction to WWW's statement.
Yeah, that's fun. I'm following you too.
Yes, three count two Thursday says, In other words, AW had a higher rating last night. Old Man says, so they got doubled in the ratings. Then getting ahead of the story, Eon says, oh yeah, AW off to a good start voice of the wrestling, so they definitely lost by a lot. So yeah, I mean on and on.
Yeah, I totally I'll throwing in from brock White Transit trans They got the doors blown off, so now they're going to play like the classy underdog. What's next billionaire Shad and Jerrick hold Skitch.
Oh man, Yeah, Tony NXT must have gotten murdered in the ratings. Yeah, I mean this is where it's it's a little rich of WWE in a way. I mean, I know, you look at it, and I don't want to be too cynical about things, but people responding are looking at this and going, oh, okay, we see what you're up to, you know, I mean it is a little transparent. WW doesn't acknowledge AW until now, and it's look at how classic are But that I'm less cynical about it because I really do think the message here
wasn't let's frame ourselves as good guys. I really think the message was rallying their fans to go, hey, AW is brand new. They did tons of advertising. We don't. We are in this for the long run. This is a marathon. So I think it was sort of letting fans know we got a war here. This is not going to be this lopsided every week. We are in this to fight.
Now.
The other interesting thing though, is this is a marathon not a sprint. Who put on a pay per view caliber lineup last night and who put on a random almost a random assortment of matches through much of the show nxt ww put NXT put on way more of a marquee pay per view type lineup than than AW did. Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next
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Yeah, I mean the takeover like to a point. Yeah, I mean you had your NXT title match, you had the tag title match. You had the women's match, the rest, you know, it didn't have the other two strong matches that you would normally get. I don't think I'm forgetting anything. I mean, like the other women's match was pretty good, but yeah, I mean they did they loaded up their
show more so. But I mean, let's face it, so much of this is people had a strong curiosity about ae W and only time will tell whether that sticks. And I mean, I do think these early weeks are so important for one side jumping out. It can't be undervalued either because as you and I know from the Monday Night War, Raw was a much better show than Nitro was, even though Nitro was still winning that ratings
battle for so long. It's all subjective, but I think just anyone who's honest would tell you that Raw was the better show, but took them a long time before that started showing up in the ratings. And so it's a matter of just getting you know, whoever can jump out to a sizeable lead is going to have quite the advantage because people just get in that normal viewing habit.
It's fun, Jason, you and I covering the Monday Night rare ratings day was such a big deal, you know.
I mean we didn't.
The ratings battle was going on before there was internet, and so the ratings report would be something that would go up on nine hundred lines and people would call
to hear the analysis as soon as possible. The mail day for the Progressing Torch newsletter was Tuesdays, and the ratings would come out on Tuesday, and on the mailing address for the newsletters, I would add a line above the address that would report the rating because it was after the newsletter was published, but I want people want to know the rating. They didn't want to wait a week and a half, so I'd print the rating on
the address label as breaking news. So a lot of people learn about the ratings Wednesday, Thursday, Friday when they receive the paper copy, not because it was printed in the newsletter, but because it was printed on the address label. That's how much people wanted to know what those ratings were. And then usually the next week we do a big breakdown of quarter hours on the prior week's ratings. It's going to be different. Now people on Twitter are just
going refresh, refreshing windy ratings come out. They're excited about it. They're asking Wendy ratings come out, nobody was Nobody was paying attention to it at this granular level. So it's fun to be back in the game where you have ww commenting on AW and people are really excited about the headhead ratings, and yeah, it's going to be fun. Let's at the table?
Does just mean way, we're not going to have to put up with emails going why do you guys? Shall them pay attention to the ratings? They don't matter?
Yes, yep, we get to ignore those I always have. All right, let's at the table. I'm Wade Keller. This is the Way Keller Progressing Podcast. Our Thursday Flagship edition for October third, twenty nineteen. A note on our schedule because wrestling has changed, so our podcast schedule has changed. Earlier this week, right here on the Blue Brand, I had a two and a half hour interview with AEW president Tony Kahan that dropped Tuesday late afternoon. If you
haven't noticed that yet, you're gonna want to listen. It's really good. And then the Thursday Flagship normally dropped just past midnight on Thursdays. Now it's gonna drop late afternoon or early evening usually late afternoon, so we're gonna stick with a Thursday flagship and just have a faster turnaround time on when we're record and then post it. So
that's what you can look forward to. Over on the PW Torch Daily Cast, we do have a two roughly two hour NXT post show roundtable hosted by Kelly Wells. So if you are looking for in depth NXT analysis on USA, go check out Kelly Wells, Tom Stoup, and Nate Lindberg covering that show. And then on the way Keller Pro Wrestling Pot post show, our red Logo show. I hosted a close roughly two hour post show with
Zach last night. We took phone calls. We had so much demand that the switchboard broke, it crashed, and it took us forty five minutes to be able to actually reboot and refresh and the demand subside enough that we could actually log on as hosts and activate the show.
So hopefully, I don't know, hopefully it's not an ongoing problem, but it's a good show and it is up with Actually it was two and a half hours roughly of Zach and me talking about that, also an outside correspondent and email, so tons of audio that is free and available to all of you on our three different podcast feeds, and of course it goes at free and plug free with ad digital content with VPP membership, and some of that additional content will be the Fix with Todd Martin
that I'll record later today just for VIP members. Todd was in the building last night. We'll get his take on AW in person, and then also NXT, which he watched already as a comparison. My guest co host on today's show is Powell from Pro Wrestling dot Net. Jason, you have just as long of a spiel as I
do on how you're adjusting to the new schedule. Tell people about your website and the audio that you're offering so that they know where to go after they listen to this show if they want to hear more from you and your team.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
We do live reviews of all the major television shows, including NXT and AW on Wednesday nights, and that those are available to everyone on the regular Pro Wrestling dot Net website. As far as the membership site, it is an ad pre version of the site and it comes with audio reviews of all the major television shows and
pay per views. I reviewed both shows last night. Normally, John Moore is going to be tackling NXT and then Jake Barnett and I got together already on Wednesday before this conversation and discussed gave our first thoughts on the head to head battle with AW, and NXT is going to get Shake's perspective on things as well. And if you're interested in membership to the ad pre version of the website you want to hear an of audio content, just simply visit PW membership dot net for all the details.
And also I want to direct you to my Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. This week's guest is Simon Gotch, former WWE wrestler now with MLW's Contry Unit, and it was a good conversation with Simon. Just do a search anywhere for Apple podcasts or anywhere you get your podcasts for the Pro Wrestling Boom and new shows typically drop on Wednesdays, maybe even occasionally Tuesdays. Now that for at least a little bit. That's at least a kind of a maybe
a quiet day. Is there such a thing anymore? Well? No, yeah, not.
Really Maybe Saturdays when AW start running.
A pay per view, Yeah, w is gonna run pay per views, then I think it's becoming a pay per view day, and then like even kick back to watch football, and you never know, and they're going to drop some SmackDown announcement in the middle of a football game.
I know, you got to keep your laptop. Yes, I know, I know. I mean it's exciting, you know, yeah, I mean, and it's I'm glad that people are excited who listen and read our work. We have so much more to talk about. It is it is. It is nice going this long between talking about Roman reigns, in part because he's not, you know, doing a lot in recent weeks, and the thing he is doing is an anat event program.
But I mean the bullet points that we have before we get to some of the usual WWE topics that rightfully have been at the top of the agenda for several years, the number of bullet points now to talk about pushes that down off the top thirty list. So it really freshens up I think the interesting things for us to analyze about this business. So let's do that.
We talked about WWE statement and and we'll obviously by the time people hear this, they'll they'll be able to look at our analysis and see how how we prognosticated reading into what they meant. I don't think it's there's any denying that w b's in this for the long run with NXT.
I just like I said, this is just ww We are good people and they knew they dominated in the Can you just save that clip and and replace everything else they said earlier?
If that's the case, yes, that was them gloating about a big Vay theory. Okay, mark for edit if Needa, So let's let's talk about what people care about, hopefully more than the ratings. So the ratings obviously count and matter, and it's it's how it's how they keep scoring one way, but just show quality. You've watched both shows. I've watched both shows. I thought NXT had better wrestling, pretty decisively. I thought aw had absolutely a better, a better, larger
than life atmosphere. And now the energy level on a pound for pound basis, if we use that term for fans,
NXT probably had a e W beat. When you take the whole two hours into consideration, the full sale crowd was pretty sustained wildly into the action, in part because the action was better on the NXT show, but the AW fans for Cody and for a few other moments were just red hot, and so from an atmosphere standpoint, the full sale fans get some credit for helping, but in the end, you just can't compete with a giant, you know, NHL arena in DC that has fourteen thousand fans in it.
Yeah, you know, I really did kind of downplay that, and it took me about three seconds of going I watched NXT first last night, and then as soon as I started the AW show, I'm like, oh, man, yeah, this is this is much better. As far as just you know, visually and everything, n XT felt like a party. The AEW show felt like a much bigger party. I guess there's one way to put it. It really just to me, it blew away anything non WWE that we've seen in pro wrestling as far as just the production level,
the look of the building. I thought they did a great job of capturing the size of the building. It wasn't like a ring of honor at MSG. You didn't even get to see the legendary seeing and they just never really did a good job of showing you how big that venue was impact has had. You know, back in their t Anda days had some bigger shows that just never looked or felt this big, and so you know,
just on their first nights. As far as being a television product, aw blew away would others have just been unable to accomplish.
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What is your number one critique of AW Dynamite in any category from last night?
Oh? Many, A lot of little things. I do feel like Kenny Omega is not coming off like the star that he should. And I didn't worry too much about it going into last night because it was like, well, it doesn't matter untill they get to TV. But I
mean I would have done things a little differently. But I mean, his first appearance on the show was running out to save Riho, no entrance music, nothing, no fanfare, and yeah you did see him once backstage two, but I'm saying his first appearance in front of that live crowd that was weird, and then to follow that up with Okay, he's gonna go backstage and moments later come out to the being the Elite song. It's like, really,
this guy's supposed to be your top star. I didn't think they did a good job with him on Night one.
I agree, I'm not gonna be too critical because I think AW has booked out, you know, weeks and weeks of television according to Tony Kah, and there's a lot of talent on that roster that was not featured. And I think I would have been critical of AW if they threw too much at viewers all at once. Now
that said, I'm with you. One of my first the first thoughts that come to mind when I think what was most disappointing or puzzling about the game plan and execution of AW last night, and I have a handful of things that fit that category. It is how they made having John Moxley feel rather mundane as opposed to
a celebration. There are I think they assume everybody who tuned in aw knew that Dean Ambrose had jumped, and I bet most did, but I think even those who did know want to see aw celebrate it and acknowledge it. Not like, oh my god, I can't believe we got this big time star from the other guys. But celebrate what Mosley is, who he is, what he stands for, let him talk. Make sure that people know when you have this massive first week audience that this guy's going
to be utilized better. And we didn't get that. We didn't get any assurance that he's going to be utilized any better. He beat up a guy who saved Riho, who doesn't get his own ring entrance music. That's what happened in a kind of I think border cheesy coffee table glass spot with a mop handle eye roll for that. Please don't do that, so no with to me that work.
It's like it's obviously a nod to the cleaner gimmick that he did, but I think it was also I mean, if you didn't like the little gag, like because I thought it worked on a different level if you're somebody who's not familiar with that, where it's just like, Okay, it's a cute little moment. He found a mop and he's doing it. Even if you had no idea what the cleaner gimmick was, but you know it's subjective. You didn't like the humor of it, No big deal. I don't.
I don't like when you're trying to do an intense feud between Moxley and Kenny, introducing the idea that a mop handle is going to be what you would reach for and that it would hurt that much. I mean, just the pure physics of it. It's not gonna hurt that much. To me, that looked like something Moxie would have been complaining about being asked to do and fighting against doing when he was in WWE, that he's so glad he doesn't have to do anymore.
Yeah, fair enough, Yeah, I like, I totally hear that.
Yeah so. But the others I agree with you on Kenny too. Aw needs to do more to let those millions of fans, perhaps multi millions of fans as the viewership comes out, know that Kenny Omega something special. He does not leap off the page as something special. If you haven't seen his new Japan work, if you don't know the acclaim that he has earned in so many quarters from people who have watched his rise in the
last several years. They need to let people know that they Last night was a big opportunity to introduce their top stars to a brand new audience, and they didn't do that. I mean, Cody isn't a brand new start. Cody was great. That was the highlight of the show. His presentation is demeanor. I thought it was a great choice of opponent and I thought that worked for yes that I know Sam mcvarr was really you. I mean it was just yeah, that worked for me. And then
I felt the main event was a little rushed. I wish it had a little more breathing space before the run in and a better explanation of why the match was continuing after the run in. I think you can explain it, but I think you need if you have that in your head, which you should, why the match is continuing, you need to fill viewers in on it. So I felt like maybe the shit ran a little late. I haven't heard that yet. So those are some of
my critiques too, But overall, definite thumbs up. But if I had to choose between giving it an A or a B, I would give it a B. If pressed, I don't think it deserves an A grade. If if I was giving a letter grade.
How about you, Jason, That's exactly what Jake Barnett and I gave it. We both gave it B grade and done weekly.
Yeah yeah, So let's jump to NXD for a second and talk about them. Finn Balor and Tomasso Champa. The surprises that showed up, adding some depth and some new faces to the NXT title mix with Adam Cole, a stellar fourteen minute match with Cole and Riddle, and then I thought a really good Candisell Array challenge of Shana Basler. I thought the take team match was high energy. Kyler Riley just continues to jump off the page as one
of the underappreciated special wrestlers of this generation. I mean it's just the everything he does, facial expressions, body language, selling, innovative offense, timing, He's just he's He's one of my favorites to watch, and in this match showcase that, even though it wasn't meant to showcase him, he just jumps off the page. Everybody else was really good to So I just thought NXT put on a I think everybody in XT should be really proud and happy of what
they put out there. I think they made the most of what they had. They put more of their starters out there than AW did. But a really, really good show and I'm absolutely worthy of watching live for dvring and not short changing them. This is a This was two good, two good shows. I would give the non to NXT being the better show.
Yeah, we gave. I'm trying to think. I think Jake was kind of torn between you. I settled in on an A minus. So I thought the NXT show was better. But when you know the other part of it too, Again is that that atmosphere the first time, So I totally get why people chose, you know, we assume that they chose more people chose to watch the AW show, and it just did feel even though the NXT show was better in quality, it's still you know, at the end of the night, I'm like, yeah, this is a
win for AEW. So it's rare that, like the grading system doesn't really convey that, but it's true. I just watching the two shows, it was Yeah, this was a huge win for AW and not just viewership, but just the overall feel of it when everything was done is like, this show feels bigger, it feels more important, and I'm looking forward to watching that show more next week than I am the other, even though neither show did a good job of telling us what's ahead for next week.
Yeah yeah, what did they announce on aew for next week?
It's a tag title tournament match?
Is it?
Young Bucks Private party is at next week? I see. I'm not even sure They've thrown out a lot of matches, and I just kind of struggled to keep them straight.
Yeah.
No, I don't think either either show did what they should have done to promote next week's show, And I think they were just scared to go too far into promoting something else because they were people channel flipping the side by side screens during as many commercials as they can, because there are some local spots where local cable and satellite companies have commercial breaks and they can't do the
split screen on those. But the rest they did this was these shows both felt different because each was clearly cognizant of there being another show that fans could flip to if things slowed down at all. I didn't feel it was like crash TV nonsense, where you were just dizzy and nothing was making sense because they're so just phrenetically scared you would tune out because your attention span is two seconds. I didn't feel that there were a lot There's a lot of wrestling on this show and
on both shows, and a lot of long matches. That said, there was still a little bit more of a sense of urgency and adrenaline on everyone's part, which again made it a really exciting night for people who like pro wrestling.
Yeah, I'm just looking at the thinking with NXT. Their big advertisement was the Cruiserweight title match for next week, and I think they may have advertised something else, But is that really what you want to go with? I mean, it's great that you're going to have the match, but I definitely either you know, just kind of surprise people with it or pat it with two other big matches before that one. So is this a sign that NXT is going to slow down? And will both of these
companies pull back on the split screen ad? I find them to be ineffective some of it. Yes, I'm covering the show. It's kind of a burden. It kind of you know, gives you know, we kind of enjoy those commercial breaks to catch up or just to take a breath whatever. But yeah, I mean just watching because I didn't cover aw live. I just sat back and watched the show, and I'm like, I'm struggling to look at the thing, and I'm struggling for to hold my attention.
Even I don't find it to be very helpful. And I learned that with SmackDown. When they started doing the split screen, I thought it was a really good idea, and then I see it executed, and it's just like, to me, as soon as they you stop hearing the crowd, you stop hearing the announcers, it's commercial breaker, Like whatever I'm seeing isn't gonna matter anyway.
Yeah, I'm less, I have it. I appreciate them more than you. I don't I find keeping track of what's going on in the ring helpful. I agree with you, though, And it's, by the way, what you said will make advertisers happy, because advertisers want you paying attention to their ads.
Oh I'm not.
Well, no, no, I don't, but I know you're not. But they would be happy to know that it isn't as immersive that the wrestling is on if you don't hear the announcing, and it's a smaller picture. I think a lot of people who are into a match appreciate not missing out on the EBB and flow of what's going on, but you can't help with a you know, a bigger screen for the commercial and the audio to
also pick up on the advertiser message. If you're not gonna watch a commercial split screen, you're not gonna watch it not split screen, So it doesn't hurt advertisers that it doesn't work for you. But what I think is good is that it's the wrestling itself being on split screen isn't completely capturing your tension because that would work against it. I think they'll keep it up. I mean, I don't see a downside even if you, and maybe
rightfully so, question its effectiveness. You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, and it will also analyze key segments and give my random thoughts quips on
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Because it costant money, I mean, actually, like I'm calling for collusion. Just call a truce on this. So if it is costing them money, like, hey, let's just make money, guys. Let's quit with the split screen and all that. We get other ways we can mess with each other. Let's not do this.
If I'm buying an AD on either show, I want a split screen. If I'm an advertiser, I'm paying a premium, I want people to know. If I'm sitting on my couch and they stay with the match and I'm going to run to the fridge or let the dog out, and I'm into the match and an AD comes on, but I can still see the match. I'm gonna hear that Hardy's has a new burger that I might be interested in at won't probably not well, probably not me.
But yeah, I honestly couldn't tell you one thing that was advertised.
Yes, but othereless if I'm more likely to stay in my chair and watch the ad than not, if I'm into a match and I get to continue keeping an eye on it in the corner of the screen, so I would. I would as an advertiser team.
Do you know if it's is it is that the logic and they're actually going to pay a little bit more for it, or are they paying less because they don't have your full screen?
Well, I would be shocked if they paid less, I would say, I would say they at least pay the same. If I'm an advertiser, I can't imagine why I pay less for that.
I mean, well, I mean if all things are equal, Yeah, I mean, if it is really equal, then so be it. I mean, it's I can still tune out the match because I know We're not going to get a pinfall, you know, and I'm not trying to, which is kind of what happens. But if you know there is if there are other people that are enjoying being able to watch that small screen and during the break cool.
Yeah, all right, let's talk about Jake Hagar, the former Jack Swager returning on AW. Some mixed thoughts on that myself, and it depends on the follow up, and a lot of my feelings are not as strong pro worcon on ae W because it we've got two hours to work with and they've plotted out weeks and weeks of television. Jake Hagar as Jack Swager was a mid card under a achieving blue chip failure in WWE. I think that's
his perception. A guy known more for you know, smoke breaks than passion for the business, a guy who everyone looked at as, oh God, we can turn him into a star in WWE, and then month after month, year after year, we're like, oh God, okay, we got to just give up on this guy. For all kinds of things that they use to gauge whether someone is worth really fully investing in match quality, attitude, behind the scenes, all that stuff, promo work. So all that said, it
sounds like I just buried the guy. When he came on the scene, I was like, this is going to be one of the top stars of this generation. Now he's gone to Bellator, had some success on that level, and he's part of an atmosphere in AW that might not have some of the negatives. Then in his mind just made him think this is a job, not a passion. In WWE, I think an AAW guys are going to be around people who are like going to bring out
absolutely the best and motivate them. Now, sometimes this is sort of like a small market team in aw't for a small market team, but relative to WARE, I guess a small market team getting a free agent who was sort of a bust elsewhere and you're trying to it's a reclamation project. And I get that feeling a little bit with him, but I think it might work. Maybe I'm being quote hopeful, you know, or overly optimistic, but I think in the AW atmosphere all of his incredible
attributes might be better utilized. Number two, he's bigger than just about everybody in AW because AW on average, has a smaller roster than what he was around in WWE. On the main roster with the MMA credibility that he has on a smaller scale than Lesnar or Rond de Rousei,
kind of in a Bobby Lashley level. Can he be reframed and are you optimistic Jason that this could actually turn out to be a really good acquisition where they get a lot more out of him than WWE did, because for the all the hang ups they had about him that led to him not getting a sustained push in WWE, some of that might be on WWE and now it's absent in aw AEW will utilize him better.
I'm fine with him giving it a shot. I don't I would have had him come out the first time that Jericho attack Cody to end the show that way kind of felt like they're trying to showcase at WWE mid Carter as a huge acquisition. And I know he had WWE title runs, but I mean, I just know that. Okay, he left WWA and he had a chance to go out on the indies and show some passion there and
he didn't. It just he's been very disappointing. But like you say, maybe in this environment things will be different, and I hope so. I think the way to use him isn't so much in the ring, until you know you see that that motivation is there. I'd kind of make him It's not the perfect comparison, but I'd make him big bubb Rogers. I'd put a suit on him and have him in Jericho's corner, have him interfere, do
that sort of thing. Now, if you sense that, oh he's serious, he's committed to this, and you feel like you can more out of him, Okay, you know that's great, But yeah, I just don't feel it was a bit of a letdown to have him be kind of cast
late in the show as this big surprise. And I hope that I've always you know, I always thought there was more to get out of this guy and than than wwe seemed to And then the more you hear the story, it's like, okay, well this is why, And you know, hopefully he's going to see this as another a new opportunity of fresh start and not just something he does on the side because he's more focused on Bellatore.
And they overpaid because they didn't have any other surprise they could get their hands on. Yeah, yeah, I'm more optimistic than pessimistic. But a lot remains to be seen. I think there's different ways to utilize him. I like your your Big Bubba comparison. He can you know, he can be the new Ralphus, but who a Ralphus? Who kicks some ass, So we'll see I want to. I want to see this play out. I'm intrigued.
I don't think has kicked a lot of ass.
Well, I want to see where this goes. I'm not against them doing it, but I am you know, there's some cautionary yellow flags being waved about aw making more out of it. I do not want them to treat Jack Hager, Jake Hager as a bigger deal than Kenny Omega or John Moxley, not even close. Let him earn it. But I think there's a way to book him that
would be satisfying. And if he's a big guy with some WWE crad that some of their guys can beat in competitive matches but win decisively, that that's a good that's a good roster spot to have with someone like him.
Was I the only one when in the crowd started shanting, we the people that wanted Lax to go, oh yeah, that's right and just kick his ass?
Maybe maybe okay, let's we'll go back, probably to some awn nx T stuff. But I don't want to get too much deeper in before just talking about tomorrow's SmackDown is is SmackDown on broadcast television on Fox with The Rock and all the hype by Fox Network and the brock Lesnar Kofi Kingston match and everything that that that we know about and that we might not know about what's going to happen on that show. Is that in competition as the bigger story of the week than what we just saw last night.
I think it is with casual fans, because you know, I hear from some of my casual fan friends they're really excited about SmackDown a lot more than I am. Where I'm kind of like, oh yeah, we still have that to go. I don't get me wrong, I'm looking
forward to it. It's just been a crazy week. But yeah, I do think with the more hardcore Rabbit fan last night was, you know, kind of super Bowl night at least, you know, with the with the first head to head battle, and I think there is a little bit of oh yeah, SmackDown too, And even though it's The Rock and it is Fox, it has with a certain audience I think
taking a back seat. As crazy as that seems, when you think back to when that announcement was made that Fox acquired the rights to smack Down for all that money, to think that something else would kind of bump it out of the new another wrestle company, you know, NXT and another wrestling company would kind of make SmackDown take a back seat for a lot of people. It seems crazy, but it has I agree.
I'm really curious. I mean, this is where this is a big story. AW and tn T are gonna be happy with a certain ratings level. Tony con told me Tuesday this is He's not getting into details, but he said, this is a long term deal with TNT. This is not a war that's won or lost the first week or the first month. I mean, it can be lost to fate. If we come out of the gate with
two hundred twelve thousand viewers, that would be disastrous. With in there, I don't know that there's much they could do with Jericho and Omega and and Moxley and the signings that they have in the cross promotion that went into it, I don't.
Think there's imagine how frustrated that, like, what did we do wrong in the countdown show? All those people watched them showed up.
Exactly we drove them away. So that said, Fox paid way more money for SmackDown than AW and NXT budget wise have combined and the rights fees and all that. I mean, it's just from a pure financial stadpoint, it's a much bigger deal. Fox Broadcast Network is reaching potentially way more fans than USA or TNT do, and it is featuring the biggest movie star and future President of the United States, Dwayne the Rock Johnson. And I mean there's all these things going brock Lesner bigger star than
anybody on Wednesday Night. So it has all that going for and it is high stakes. This is the biggest TV money contract by far for any company ever, and they have put tons of promotion into it. Expectations are super high by WWW and Fox. I mean, remember how network subscription predictions were for WWB network and how much below that it turned out. You know, they had talked themselves into something that you and I knew wasn't reality
in terms of subscribership out of the gate. I worry they've talked themselves into thinking that there's going to be a much bigger boost in viewership than there will be. I think SmackDown will outdraw anything R smackdon have done in recently, probably by you know, maybe fifteen percent, twenty percent. I don't think it's gonna like add fifty or seventy percent though to the viewership. I think they think it will.
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Yeah, man, the drawing power of the rock is something else. And I do wonder if we're kind of a bit in the bubble on this just because of you know, the our listenership, our readership is so heavily focused on n xtae W. I just I don't have a good feel for this one. I lean in your direction though, where I don't think it's going to be this massive number. And even if it is, you know, let's say they do a great number for the Rock. Let's say they're able to keep a good portion of that audience for
the draft. What happens in week three? You know, what are you doing? It's just their product is not in a great place right now. All those cosmetic changes on Monday were nice, but the core of product is still in a rough place. And I don't know that they are just going to be able to suddenly change things and change the way they do things for the better
or SmackDown. I think we would have seen some of that leading up to the launch of SmackDown, and I actually felt like SmackDown kind of fell off a cliff. There was all these storyline gaps and it's just it's been a mess of a show. I hope they will us. I hope they really surprise us, but I don't feel all that optimistic about WWE long term. On Fox.
Yeah, they've This is sort of like NXT was a loaded show. AW featured a big six men te Chris, Jericho, Mister Partners, Omegan the Bucks. That's a big match for AW. And but what was the I guess Pock and Hangman Page was the second biggest match marquee wise on that show. Yeah, I mean women's title match. I don't maybe contends, Yeah.
I don't, just because of who's involved and they're fairly unknown to a lot of viewers. I would think that Pock and Page was probably bigger in the eyes of most people.
And then I mean Cody Sam mcavar turned out to be really good, but it felt like a Cody Rhoads showcase match with someone who will be competitive but lose, and that's what happened.
Yeah, but man, I would actually put that number two because I think there was real appeal and seeing Cody because of the family history on TNT, you know all of that. I actually think that it wasn't because of Sam and Govar, who ended up doing a great job, but I think just the image of seeing Cody in that ring opening up the show like that was pretty cool. Yeah.
So SmackDown has a loaded lineup, NXT had a loaded lineup, and AW had a solid lineup. I think AW paced themselves in a way that if they didn't win the ratings by a wide margin, they'd go well we're pacing ourselves. You know, they'd be the one kind of putting out the pr statement this is a marathon, not a sprint. We didn't just put a pay per view quality lineup out there on the first week. And you know NXT can't do what they did against us every week. Now.
I don't think they have to tell that story and spin it because I think they'll win the ratings. But that said, going your point on SmackDown, this is an unsustainable lineup to match, so they need to do a better job than AW did taking advantage of this audience. I mean the XFL is a classic go to example when you for big rating first week, big drop off after it. You need to make that good first impression
and get people hooked on the product. Hopefully there are some angles and just an overall look at the show in a subtraction of some things that drive people away in the addition of some things that get people excited, angles, promos setting up next week. They need to be in the business of not just presenting what they do, but promoting what they do one in two weeks ahead of time and Friday night that is vital to sustaining whatever audience surge they have because of the Rock and Brock
and all the hype. You're right this, I mean, we can talk about this week in the ratings battle. I'm already really interested in how Wednesday Night counter programs each other based on this week's numbers. But SmackDown is a huge story. The rating. This week's big, But even bigger is what's the average the next three weeks?
Exactly? Yep, And you're talking about they do advertising events and things. Convinced to be bothered to change his way? I mean, will Fox executives be able to get through to him? Just do Fox executives? No? I mean, they paid a lot of money for this product, and I just questioned how much they understand the wrestling industry. Were they the ones who had that weird push that convinced that they shouldn't have wrestling during commercial breaks? I mean, if so, that's really frightening.
Yeah, I know it is, It is. It is what what Let's let's talk, uh, not the business side for a second, but the actual what's going to happen on SmackDown tomorrow night. Brock, Lesnar, Kofi Kingston, I'm I'm intrigued by this Ray mysterio story, and I almost I looking at Brock beating up Ray and Dominic and You're like, what where is that going? It's not it's not leading to Brock versus Ray and Dominic and handicap match. It's not leading to Brock versus Ray one on one. You know,
they haven't portrayed Ray as in his prime. They haven't portrayed him as this scrappy underdog who could take down a Brock who's not taking himself seriously or is leaving himself vulnerable. I don't see them telling that story, So why did they do that? There's gotta be some reason
is this. And then you have Paul Hayman's promo. There's a lot of people who fancy themselves tough guys in WWE and outside of WWE, and I was thinking, oh, is that an acknowledgement to a w Then he goes and in the MMA world and sports and I thought that's setting up SmackDown. Somebody from the MMA or sports world is going to step up to Brock in response
to Brock bullying Dominic and Ray. And that would also give them an exit from having to do not They could have Brock squash Kofee and then still do an angle. But if they want to get out of that and keep the belt on Kofe, they could still they would have an angle to distract from it, but not seem like a complete cop out. And that's where I wonder, if we're not going to see like a Kane Velaska show up and defend Ray and Dominic, what has that
crossed your mind? Where do you What do you think that angle on Monday with Ray means to what we see tomorrow night with Brock and Kofe.
Yeah, I do think it plays a part. I mean, number one, I've loved seeing Dominic be destroyed. I've been waiting for that and I was so happy when it finally happened.
But he's just a twenty two year old teenager Jason.
Ouch. But yeah, it was I thought a good angle. And yes, I think it was done on Monday for a reason. You know, they could have not just being well Brox here, we got to do something with him. I do think it probably plays into that. As far as like Caine ve last, I can see the Fox execs thinking like this is a big deal. I don't know that it is. I liked Cane Velaskaz now I've dripped it away from UFC for quite a while, but I think I saw the peak of Cane Velasquez there
and it's been a while. How big of a deal is this way? Do you keep closer tabs on? I know he's wrestling in Mexico now, but you keep closer tabs on and the MMA world than I do. So does he still have is your crossover appeal here?
I think it's worth doing. But I think it's worth doing because of the story that you would tell for people who don't know it's a big deal that the moment it starts, but because of how you frame it and how Brock and Hayman react and where you go with it. Because Kane has a legit background that you can talk about and exposure on Fox Network for UFC, and you know, an up and down career, but a really good career, a notable USC heavyweight heavyweight career. I
think you can turn that into something special. It's not like if I'm creating a dream scenario for what to do on the first SmackDown and I got my pickup anything in the world. This is more of a consolation when some A plans don't work out. But I think it's it would be worth doing if they do it.
Okay, Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how that goes over. If there's going to be people freaking out that it's came to Alaskas or people going who the hell is is? Oh?
I think there'll be some of that, and that's that's again the job of the announcers and Hayman's reaction, a Lessond's reaction to sell this idea and then you know, if you can get some rights to footage, that would be good too. But I mean, I think you can turn it into something it's I don't think it's it's a I think it's a way to let people know SmackDown on Fox is not just another SmackDown. There's more resources, there's more effort to be to do things that are special.
But again, it has to be sustainable beyond the first week. The the Shane McMahon Kevin Owens match, is this, Kevin Owens wins and Shane goes away, or does Shane win and NXT doesn't count, So Kevin Owens gets to go there and they deepen the NXT roster to try to compete better with ae W. Those seem like the two more likely most likely scenarios. I think they will do an actual finish, but I am in I'm intrigued to see what happens. I'm talking myself into the possibility of either outcome.
Can we just get Kevin Owens to go to NXT and Shane still goes away.
That actually would be that would be option A.
Yeah, first things first, Shane McMahon goes away. That's the most important part of this. But I yeah, I don't. I have a bad feeling that Shane stays. They're gonna, oh we need McMahon's on SmackDown and we're on Fox now. But and then that would mean that Owens does go to NXT, which, hey, they can use another big name down there that they're not doing much with on the main roster that they kind of ruined on the man
roster lately. There's that bad booking that I was talking about with SmackDown where things have just gone downhill going into the Fox premiere rather than oh, they're really ramping up for this. So I mean, but I don't have a strong feeling about that one. I could kind of
see it going either way. If Shane's just ready for a break if they feel like they've overexposed or one of the things they want to do on SmackDown on Fox is just basically say we're not doing the McMahon family drama stuff, or at least they're not going to start. They'll always find a way to get back to it.
But if that's something like they feel like they need to do differently, it is not, you know, focus on the First Family of Wrestling and just kind of make this more of a sports centric show, then it makes sense goes away. So yeah, I don't have a strong feeling about it.
Yeah, Yeah, give yourself a reason to look forward to going into the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter paper copy. Subscription details at PW torch dot com
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is is fascinating to me. And oh yeah, the other the other side of this whole week is is reinventing how pro wrestling is presented. You mentioned earlier Raw and the announcing changes in the new season. We've got new like a horns, brass instruments playing the then now forever thing now on on the little brand stamp at the
beginning of shows. We had the new Raw music at the opening, some other production tweaks, obviously different announcers, and then a w had Jim Ross, Tony Shavani and next caliber We've got a new team on on SmackDown, a little more familiar uh with with Cole and Graves, but no third person in the booth as of this point, which is good. That's an I think a Fox influence. But when I'm what's that a.
Blass surprise at the Impire. I mean, I'm just throwing it out. There's a long shot.
Yeah, yeah, No, I mean that's don't don't get me going on punk right now, lose my lose track of my topy here. So production wise, I am. I'm into production values, the aesthetics, all of that stuff. I pay attention to that stuff. I get excited when there's a tweak to a logo, you know, like that's me. Some people are like whatever, just show me the wrestling in
the ring, and that's you know, everybody's different. But Fox cares about that stuff, and I am really I'm really intrigued with how Fox contributes to reimagining the presentation of wrestling. And I was a little let down by AW in that regard. I think AW put on a really top
shelf looking wrestling show with nothing new. And I mean, yes, there's a little and I missed this on the post show last night when I talked about the ratings that had a tiny little graphic next to the wrestler's names when they came out saying singles record overall record, and that's a nice touch. And right now, well, yes, it's it's very small, but I can clue you and Jason. They were all ones and zeros, you know, like, I mean, there's not a lot to go on yet, so I
understand them downplaying that a little bit. But beyond that, I mean, there's some really cool shots with the camera of the building and that's great. I mean, I've seen it before, and this was some new angles because it's not the same, you know, Kerbman and Kevin deciding where to put them, But there wasn't a lot of other innovation. I wanted that energy outside the building to be conveyed to me. I wanted something to feel more different in some ways. So it just wasn't quite as imaginative as
I hope. I have higher hopes for SmackDown in what Fox does to create a different vibe besides just a new stage, a new logo, and a new entrance song or opening theme, I hope.
So yeah, I mean, you know, they're already clearly toying with the cameras and so it looks like they're going to be shooting it a little bit differently in that way. And I mean, hopefully something, anything, is going to get Kevin Donne out of this fonk query because you know, everything is the same same way that it's been for years. There's nothing wrong about Raw, It's been said a million times. I really hope that Fox does kind of bring them out of that comfort zone and we do get a
different look. Now, sometimes be careful what you wish for, but I do have faith in Fox just you know, as a fallow were of the sports they cover, did they do a great job with that? So hopefully all you know, any changes that happen or for the better, and hopefully we do get some changes.
So let's go back to AEW for a moment and talk about where you think they go from here in terms of the not the top shelf talent, but some of the other names that they're going to try to build up. Sammy Cabara had had his moment. Who else do you think is going to end up being in that top tier, top of the second tier on their roster. I ran another poll. I've got a pull for that.
I ran a poll on Twitter yesterday or maybe it was this morning, asking who has the better roster because we've heard, you know, Kenny Omega sort of in character saying, you know, they just be dark match opening guys, they won't even make TV the NXT guys, which I don't like say that stuff, even if you're doing another guys being in character. I think it came across as not classy,
no matter how you frame it. And but Tony Conn said, you know, he thinks their roster is better, and I don't have problem with that because he's not one of the wrestlers, he's the promoter. And I thought he said it more diplomatically, but I know there's people in NXT pushing back to me by text just saying, come on, AW was a million dollar production with a bunch of minor league guys and NXT was a bunch of major league guys in a smaller venue with top shell production
making the best of it. I think that's an overstatement, in an exaggeration. But how is AW on depth? I asked on on Twitter, how do the roster's compare. It's pretty close, but forty five percent that NXT has a better roster. Thirty six percent said AW has the better roster, and I said, if you're trying to win a ratings war, that was my context, not best matches. If you're trying to sell tickets, sell pay per views and win a
ratings war. What roster would you want? Forty five to thirty six percent advantage for NXT and eighteen percent saying it's a toss up? What's your vote? And then also, how is AW doing once you get past the top four or five six acts?
Oh? Man, I think the obvious thing is that there is more star power right now in all elite wrestling than there is an NXT. Ben Ballor came down for a reason. And so my vote overall, I think I do lean slightly in favor of all elite wrestling. I think there's if you're now, if you're just looking for great matches, okay, then well even that's tough because you also have to factor in people like Pentagon Junior in Phoenix.
It's not just the singles wrestlers, and you know that those guys are capable of doing both and doing a great job with it. So man, but I just think for me, the edge goes to ae W mostly because of that star power that they have that NXT lacks right now and in time, you know, I mean, NXT has a deeper roster, they have that whole developmental pool to work with. But you know, we've seen shows already where they're still you know came I like Cameron Grimes.
They haven't really done a whole lot with them yet. They had I forget the Chinese woman's name, who Zioli. I believe it is a long way to go there, there's a there's still It's not taking any away from the talent in NXT. It's just they haven't had the exposure. You know, they're they've been on the WWE network in Hulu and that's it, and so it's going to take a little bit of time for them to come off as bigger stars. Now, if you're somebody who's been watching
those shows, then you may feel completely different. You may look, well, Matt Riddle is a star and MJF is not for you just to pick somebody's name. I think it's all kind of in the eye of the beholder on this, But to me, it's just somebody who's familiar with both sides. I do lean a e W.
When I look at the roster. I put them side by side in a story I did on Kenny Omega's comments at pw torch dot com and and here here's the rosters that I line up there's some changes now in the wrestlers that I would pick. I didn't put a ton of thought into who I excluded, but I grabbed fifteen names from each roster. If you look at the top tier, you have Adam Cole, Matt Riddle, Johnny Gargano,
Tomaso Champa, velveteen dream. You would add Finn Ballard to that list now, and that's your top tier singles, because after that you have Kashita Dominic, did Jakovic, Keith Lee, Killian Dane, Cameron Grimes. Who you mentioned, Pete Dunn, Walter Damian, Damian Priest Did I say that right?
Yeah?
Okay, I had Priestley in my head. I might No, that's Jason Prisley. And then and you had some of the other breakout star tournament guys too, who you know might might rise. So but if you look at a w's top tier, you have Chris Jericho, Kenny Omega, Cody, John Moxley, Hangman, Page and Pack probably battling for that number five spot.
He gets it.
I agree. I think Page has been that his stock has dropped and Pox has gone up. Yeah, and then MGF Sean Spears, Dustin Rhodes, I would say, uh, Darby Ellen got a little bit of a rub, but he's you know, he's not a top tier guy. Joey Janelle is going to be kind of in that second tier, midcard MAXs. So when you look at that, I mean it to me, that just seems competitive. Cole Riddle, Gargado, Champa Omega, Jericho, Cody Moxley. I mean I give the edge to to AW I think in that very top tier.
Yeah, and it's because those guys are established, because some of them have been on WWE television, where a lot of those NXT guys just you know, when it comes to main roster television, they may have had a cup of coffee there. So yeah, like I said, it's just going to take some time. But yeah, they're comparable. But I think that early star power is going to help carry ae W along with is you know, the feeling of this is new and different.
Yeah.
Yeah, So on the NXT front, who has a chance to be some or I shouldn't say it was a chess who do you want to see them get behind a little more? And I don't have much doubt NXT's going to take advantage of who they have and have good reasons for not pushing someone if they think they're not ready. I know there's some people frustrated with, say Keith Lee not getting more of a push given his
rep on the end scene. But I think the more you hear about it, the more you go no, you know, I think they're pacing him the right way for a variety of reasons. But is there anyone on the NXT front who you see, as you know, a month or two from now, you hope that they're a big deal.
You know, he would have been the guy Keith Lee. Yeah, but like you say, there's there's factors there. I do have real faith in Paul Levec and his team when it comes to that that if somebody, you know, if there's if somebody is not being pushed, it's not because they don't see what the fan see. It's there's a reason for it. So I just I'm kind of patient in that way when it comes to what NXT does. Doesn't mean they always hit home runs with the talent,
but they usually hit at least a triple. They get the most out of their talent, and so I mean, yes, there's I'd like to see them, you know, it's it's still early, but I want to see them do more with Cameron Grimes, and I do you know, ultimately want to see them do more with Dijah Covich and and and also Keith Lee, but it's still you know, fairly early and with the Dojakovich because he's had some injuries. And so I am I missing anyone? Does anyone jump out to you? No?
No, I think you hit the names that we're on on on my list too. But I think by I think there are enough names for them to keep things fresh. I mean one of the concerns with with Finn Balor and tomasco Champus showing up that adds freshness to the top NXT title scene for Adam Cole and the Key With a two hour weekly show with NXT going into this Wednesday night Live on USA, than people were concerned who watched NXT every week and knew the pace of
the booking. Can they battle for ratings, fill two hours and do it in a sustainable way and still build up takeover specials and not not low those matches early? Are they in position to do that? And I think I have mixed feelings about adding the Cruiser weights to the mix because I think there's a stigma on cruiser weights that can pull down, that can pull down the
NXT guys, and and but bringing ballerin. He didn't have a great finish on the main roster, but I think that people who watch NXT look at him as well. That's on Vince, not on him, right, So he's a good addition. I'm not as concerned with the names you mentioned and then the additions and the return of Champa. I think they're in fine shape. Uh and and they have got a good women's division. It's not super deep, but it's deep enough to be sustainable with a two
hour show. So I wasn't super worried going in, and I'm even less worried now given the way that they're promoting the show.
I like NXT's women's division more than I do a w's at the moment. And you know, they may have a bigger reach where they can bring in different people internationally and things like that than WWE will. But I can't say that I'm really wowed by the women's division so far in AW. I think Nyla Rose is still a work in progress. Britt Baker, They're they're really positioning her in a strong way, but she's a wrestling dentist.
Like why it's great that she has two careers. It's very impressive, and it's something that I think you certainly go out of your way to have the commentary team acknowledge. I don't make that all about you know, that's her gimmick, Like that's who she is, and you have the dentist logo on the big screen when she comes out. No, she'd let her just be Britt Baker, who happens to be these things that the broadcast team will tell you about.
Yes, yes, no, I agree.
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And on the I think it's important have strong women's divisions on both companies, and I think they both need to aggressively scout. I have more faith at this point in the performance Center and the annxt he set up and its trainers to bring along wrestlers who need some polish faster than aew. And when I was talking to Tony Kahn in the interview right here on the Way Keller Proson podcast earlier this week, he talked about, you know, letting some wrestlers on a case by case basis work
the end scene. And I think there's wrestlers where he shouldn't just be saying yes to requests. He should be aggressively pursuing dates for a lot of his talent. And there are wrestlers where the risk of injury and wear and tear is much less than the risk of hurting somebody in the ring or looking winded, or not having
their timing or just not getting better. Aw has more wrestlers on television that they're going to have in rotation who are not ready for prime time based on the standards we're used to, and that's where getting them work and even subsidizing to a degree them getting work on the indie scene with trusted promoters, with good wrestling rings and good you know, knowing they have doctors, not just fly by Night. You know, shoddy setups get some of those mid card and lower card wrestlers more work.
I agree, yeah, absolutely, I think he nailed it. Not quite ready for prime time. They're going to be featured in prime time, but some of them know they're not ready for it the next He does have that performance center, and they do have the system, and they can send people over to the UK for a while if they want to. It'll be interesting to see. I mean that they have some talented people working behind the scenes in aew if they do off to start something along those line.
I don't know if they're going to be as grandiosa as the Performance Center, but they may need to do something because WWE is doing such a good job with that scouting, and I think AW would point you, yeah, but look at the roster we were able to build. But if you're just going to keep missing out of the next wave, you know, yes, there's people that slip through the cracks or you get good timing. As far as when this started doing, a number of contracts were up.
That's great and they'll be able to lure some free agents. But I think WWE is miles ahead of everyone when it comes to recruitment and just you know, binding that the hidden gems out there.
And it's something AW needs to understand. On week one isn't as much of an issue as the marathon is. And when you look at WWE statement and you parse it was that wording was chosen carefully. That was I'm sure something Triple H crafted with WWEPR. And there is an incredible amount of pride, not arrogance, but confidence and pride in NXT that their talent and their booking and their resources can overcome the whatever handicap the full sale
smaller setting has. Let's also keep in mind AW is not always going to be in a glossy eighteen thousand seats NHL arena in a major market. They're going to be in some smaller buildings too. That's going to close the gap on the incredible difference in terms of the
visuals that we saw last night. They're going to run in some other big buildings, but they're going to be running in some you know, under ten thousand seat buildings and not necessarily be selling out all the buildings either and having a crowd that rabid or on site correspondent on the way Keller prosing Posho last night said he ran into a lot of people who came from all kinds of areas of the Northeast, you know, driving hours
to go to that show. Some of this is and this is where NXT doesn't want to be leaned back and kick their feet up. But they have reason to think this was some early excitement that is likely to subside, and there's a honeymoon period a little bit with viewers giving ae W a little more of a break than they would if some of the same things were done on Raw or SmackDown or even n XT, because you know, they are the new the new brand, and people have
a fierce loyalty towards them. I mean people are fiercely loyal on both sides. I mean they're you know, Twitter will show you that there's people who anything that is seen as a slight at WWE, they'll come at you same thing with aew people who are who are really
into it. So I yeah, I think I think AW has a has reason to not get to not look at this number and be too content that they can just kind of copse and I don't think they will, but I think they should be more concerned about four or five months down the line than they are the next few weeks. I think the next few weeks are probably in pretty good shape. We'll see. I mean, I'm do you expect to drop off next week?
Jason, Oh boy. You know it's hard to stay without seeing that number, but probably you know, it's just we kind of saw that with NXT two, that that there's going to be you get that that first night buzz and then the next week is not as much. Plus people are gonna have yeah, I mean, I don't know. Maybe they generated so much it won't but it's it's hard to say. I would hope that NXT or that ae W. Don't get cocky about it, you know, publicly
you want to celebrate. Behind the scenes, by all means, do it, but you know, be smart about this, and hey, there's you know, half the teams in Major League Baseball one on opening Day, and there's only going to be one team that wins the World Series. You I sure hope so, but yeah, but I mean, that's it's it's one night, and you do have the benefit of this being your premiere, So be smart about it, and I
hope they will be there. There's been a couple of times where I'm like, hey, guys, really, but you know, hopefully this won't be one of them.
Well, I mean there's some people are are big talkers in a w and others aren't. And I I yeah, they need to measure their words to to keep the goodwill of their fans, but also have the bravado and confidence that Eric Vishchoff had early on with Nitro that I think. You know a lot of people like brazen confidence and and in pro wrestling especially, there's that That's
something that will appeal to fans too. You want to be you want to be confident that you belong in this game and that you earned the rating and you're going to keep the rating and not be like, oh sucks, wow, we're just so fortunate to win one week.
You know.
I don't want that. But they got up. They gotta be careful about the the pr oh for sure.
Yeah, yeah, I mean they I I just want to see them tone it down a little bit. But the bravado like Tony Khan, like the comment that he gave Tom, I like that, that's fine. Like you said, it's coming from him, it's not coming from one of the wrestlers. And I think Tony has shown good sense when it comes to the things he says publicly. I don't think he's just you know, the comedy made to Todd wasn't something where he just got angry and said something he's
going to regret. I don't think anyway. I think he's pretty calculated with what he says. And it's kind of the rest of the crew, you know, you just you don't know what's going to happen. Kenny Omega has been kind of the wild card. I know some of it's in character, some of it's not, But I mean, just look at his reaction to when they ran the Evolve show opposite the Fight for the Fallen event. He got all worked up about like, calm down, you knew this
was going to happen. Are you're really going to react this way? And you know, it's just things like that that kind of make you hope that they're gonna be smart about this and not to take two grand of a victory lab.
Yeah, yep, Okay. I want to go back to row for a moment because we have not touched on the Lana Lashly russev angle that WWB chose to be the defining moment more than the Fiend attacking Seth again at ringside, the defining moment in memory image of their season premiere. I don't know if ww dot com still has I'm gonna check right now the side by side of No they move ten XT good. They have the side by side of the Fiend attacking Seth as a splash image on their page, next to lash Le and Lana making
out what are they? What are they going for there? And how does it? How do you get behind?
You know?
I talk about people liking brazen confidence and wrestling Russa just standing leaning on the top rope, looking like there's nothing he could do about it? Is that bad? Or is that how someone would react if they were watching their wife suddenly make up with somebody on natural television?
Just be like, you know, it depends on the person. Honestly, I think there's some people that would fly off the handle and go crazy and go after the guy. There's some people that might do what he did. I could actually see that where somebody's just like okay, I mean, I guess we don't know where his character is coming from, so yeah, I think my first instinct would be to go crazy. But I could see somebody just like, what is happening? Why is she doing this? This is humiliating.
Yeah, So from a storyline standpoint, is they're setting up Russev against lash Ly with Lana and Lashley's corner. Is that is that what the new season A w needed or is this something going somewhere else.
I think that Lana's just efflusian. She'd be making out what somebody new every week. And I have no idea. I know I think they are. I think it's going to be lash Leigh and Lana together for a while. And I really questioned the decision to go with Lashly for this role. I don't know that he's This doesn't seem like it really plays to his strengths.
What are his strengths? And it sounds facetious. So I'm not trying to be like making about.
It, but what being like a mini not a mini is not the right word, but kind of being a brock lesnar clone. He was really good that year twenty sixteen was the year that Impact wrestling was pretty damn good and he would a big part of it. He was just a badass of a maytime and you know, getn't back down from people, and he was delivering confident promos and that's the guy that I wanted to see show up in WWE, not whatever this has been.
Yeah, yeah, what else from raw jumped out to you, Jason on the on the season premiere, good or bad? And in fact, let me actually be more specific on that. What do you think of the announcing team?
I think Vic Joseph's going to shine more when they're on pay per view and he's calling full on Matt you know, longer matches and things. I think that's really but he did a good job of just steering the ship. You know. That's something I remember Jim Ross had talked about with Michael Cole that, you know, after he had gone back for the first time in a while, he couldn't believe all the things that Michael Cole had to do and transition to this, transition to that, and he
really praised what a good job that Cole did. And I think we saw Vic Joseph do a nice job with that. And you know, that's key because I think that's part of the reason that maybe mar Ronaldo didn't to click on the main roster. I don't know if he was as smooth that that as they would have liked or they just you know, could have certainly been some personality issues. Lord knows there have been with Vince
and JBL and everything else. But but I do wonder if that's part of it, because Marrow is a great, a great announcer, but in NXT he doesn't have to you know, plug a billion sponsors and everything else like they do on Raw. And that may change a little bit now. But the biggest thing for me though, the biggest takeaway from the broadcast team, And this is also an issue with all elite wrestling, who and the hell
are do O Madden and Rickish and caliber? If you are a new viewer, I know why am I supposed to respect their opinion? Tell me who they are? Now? You and I know, I know he's Brendan Williams and he played in the NFL, and he's been in the NXT for a little bit, and you know, he may still wrestle, may not, who knows. But if you're just somebody that's only watching Raw, no idea who this guy is, and they're just acting like you should.
I wouldn't have known who he was. I watched the NFL, But I'm not like you.
Know, arts, I only know it because I remember seeing when he when he first went to NXT, there were some stories about NFL player going to NXT. I thought I'd have no clue.
Yeah, no, no, I totally agree with you. And by the way, I don't think an announcer should be asking questions like does this happen every week? You're the color commentator we're supposed to listen to, and you're advertising the fact that you don't watch RAW. I mean, And it's not so much just the damage done from that, but it shows the judgment and the mindset going into his job, which is I'm the new guy, I'm here for other reasons, and I just I was like, just dumbfouted by that.
And then also in the middle of Brock Lesner intimidating, beating up brain intimidating Dominic deal, Madden was like, why isn't Dominic standing up and being a man because he's being portrayed as a hapless teenager and it's brock freaking Lesnar, you idiot, Like you can't make Dominics seem like he should be standing up to Brock. The idea is nobody would want to stay out of to Barock nome er Man would, and he made it seem like Dominic was was the not the heel, but someone you should look
down upon for not doing more. It's freaking brock Lesnar. Deo should be saying, how you know, like how intimidating it is and how tough this is. But Dominic can do nothing about it because he's not brock Lessner. He's not in his league.
Yeah, it's one thing for me to look down on him, but after the color commentator, but yeah, he deal is in a tough position. Number one, When the hell is he called de O Madden? Just snock he's Brennan Williams. Quit it. I know AW is a threat now and oh my god, Brennan Williams could jump to ae W and use the name that we helped build it. Just stop it. I don't like it. It sounds so hokey and ridiculous. There's no there's nothing, not like he's established
himself an NXT and people know him from this. Just go with the real sounding name, go with his real name, and and it's you know, he's just thrust into this. He's barely done any commentary on two five Live. Next thing, you know, they're just throwing him on the raw. I don't really understand it. Hopefully he's going to grow into that role. It's it's not his fault. That's kind of the approach I'm taking with him as we start this is whatever mistakes he makes, I mean, I can't play.
He's learning on the job.
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We invite that interaction. Let us know what you think of what we're saying, and let us know what you want us to talk about and ask us specific questions. Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com. All right, Jason, we just stepped away for a few minutes and in that time ratings came in, so we're adding a segment onto the show here to look at the ratings? What's
your what's your headline? For the number one point just over one point four million for AW Dynamite on TNT, just under nine hundred thousand for NXT on USA, down about just over one hundred thousand from last week, So they lost about fifteen percent of their viewership from last week up against AW.
You know, gosh, I don't even know what the headline necessarily is other than AW wins the Night one battle, and they did so sizably. I think it's if my math is correct, which it often is not, it's a five hundred and eighteen thousand viewers separating the two. I guess I'm a little surprised. I thought there would be
a little more. I thought it'd be a little closer, even you know, when the words started to come out that A seemed to be taking having the Night one lead, and then wwe issuing the statement, I still thought it was going to be a little bit closer than it turned out to be.
I gave so many predictions the last month and in the last week completely. I want to go back. I gave a very precise prediction over the weekend on the VIP weight Teller hotline. I don't remember what that number was, but I want to see how close I came, because I was like, I'm going to be super precise. So if I'm because if I, if I, if I use rounded numbers and I come close, that's not as fun as being right on. So I got to go back and listen to my ratings prediction. But here's to me.
Your headline is right eight. My headline on pw torch dot com which we post, I posted, and I know you got ratings up. During our brief break here in the podcast recording, my headline was AW beats NXT by a by wide margin. NXT drops, AW fall short of approaching SmackDown and raw numbers. AW decimates NXT in one key demo, and that key demo is eighteen to eighteen to thirty four year old males. This is like, just this is where T and T is going to be
most happy. I mean, they care about eighteen to forty nine a lot, but eighteen to thirty four AEW of eighteen to thirty four males point seventy three for AEW point two six for NXT.
Wow.
Yes, So what that means is, and there's a lot, I mean, there's a lot to the ratings, and I'll do a long update on the VPA Keiller hotline tonight, going into all the details on this to kind of put in perspective, because I know a lot of people
have questions on how this stuff works. But the what that indicates is kids, women and older men who watch Ron SmackDown and have heard of NXT were more likely to watch NXT than discover AW, and AW clearly, through social media, has been building a following among younger males at a rate that exceeds WWE's popularity, and that came
through here. That also is why in the last eighteen hours, I have thought AW would win by a wider margin and started upping my estimate from around I don't know as at one point four to one point seven million. I think is kind of where most of my number predictions were for AW. So I was pretty spot on except for the last eighteen hours. I started thinking, maybe they're going to approach two million, maybe they'd even beat RAW.
But that was because my feedback that I was getting was from our demographic, which is eighteen to thirty four year old males. And then eighteen to forty nine males too, but it was two to one and three to one in those demos. That's why I started getting higher in terms of what I thought AW would do in my predictions. Again in the last eighteen hours. Now we're brought back down to earth because we don't reach the same demographic that TNT and USA do you know, for better, for worse,
whatever you know. So that's why it was a little closer. Still a wide margin of victory though for AEW. So now the question is what happens next week? Do you think it's pretty similar, Jason? Or do you think AW had that curiosity factor but nxto win some people back.
You know, the more I think about this, the more I think that it's going to be fairly similar because I think that, yeah, there was a curiosity factor there, but AEW delivered, and I think that is you know, they're going to maintain a lead over NXT for the foreseeable future. I could be way off, but I just had they delivered this number and the show had been a clunker, well then it'd be like all bets are
off for next week. Maybe maybe the viewership for both goes down and it probably you know, you may see a little bit of a decline in the overall numbers for both, but I think the lead is going to be there for a W because they came through. You know, we graded them earlier at NXT, graded higher overall, but ae W did what they needed to do and should it should have been good enough to maintain that or to keep people coming back.
Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think it'll be similar. Now what I'm curious about is on SmackDown Friday with his huge audience, and especially Raw on Monday, does W do does w w B go? Okay, now we know the starting point. Now let's get more behind NXT. Does does Vince think? Yeah, let's let's have some some more special appearances. I know they showed Stephanie and Mark Henry, Kevin Nashcott Hall in the crowd. Who am I leaving off?
There's someone else there next to Stephanie? Who was next to Stephanie?
Yeah? There was somebody with Mark Henry Stephanie and I can't I've brought a bird.
All right, no video, But like I wonder if WB will try to you know, not fortify, but add Yeah. I mean, I don't know fortify the NXT product was something to give a little boost, run an angle or have a promo and NXT to promote. I mean, it's not like they have a big match announced for next week that they could promote on raw that would necessarily translate.
So I mean my guess is they won't do that, and they'll just go with the flow and and and assume that AW with all the hype, all the buzz, the NFL ads and all that, that's not sustainable for AW. But WWB cross promoting NXT is sustainable and free, and so I think there's some confidence in the idea that this is a marathon, not a sprint. But those demo numbers, Jason are ominous.
They are you know, I mean, this is what ww gets they promote. I don't even know who they're promoting to it. For a long time it was kids. And when you see the product and you see what they did on Monday with Lana and Lashly making out hardcore on the stage, that's not for kids. So I mean it's like they're trying to reach everybody or aew. You could see it in the crowds for their events. They
were reaching a younger audience and it was hard to tell. Okay, is that younger audience there because they're the traveling fans that go to star cast and things like that, or is this just you know we're gonna start. Is this going to be the norm? Are they reaching that younger demographic in general? And they have I don't have the numbers in front of me because I'm afraid will do with my computer if I I'm trying to have tuboty windows open at once. Yeah, I did notice the they
did well with They did much better with women as well. Away.
Yeah, I don't have the female demo in front of me. I'm going to get those later. The adult demo aew more than doubled NXT and so the eighteen to forty nine adult they more than doubled, and the male eighteen to forty nine they more than doubled by a wider margin. So that would indicate if we averaged that out, that they aw handily won in the women eighteen to forty nine category, but not by the same margin as the men.
I took a chance. There's no smoke coming out of my computer, so that is good. In the eighteen to thirty, we'll just go eighteen to forty nine demographic female. Yeah, point four to four for AEW for NXT point two three.
Oh okay, so that's a pretty similar almost a two to one margin.
Not quite Yeah, yep, yep, they did well there.
Yeah. So I mean, I I think AW is very happy. I think TNT is very happy. I don't think they're elated. I think they might have started. I mean, I think there was some PlayStation view numbers out that were like three to one. Again, that's going to be a younger demo that's on that device. So we're learning as we go what the indicators mean. And if I'm asking people at PW Torch on Twitter, which show are you watching? Well, if they're watching one show live, but a bunch of
them watched NXT right afterwards, that closes the gap. Because Nielsen is counting the same night, DVR viewership and live viewership as the same thing. They're not counting viewership this morning or this afternoon or tomorrow in that first number, but that first number includes DVR viewership. Also, if you watch both shows thirty minutes each, you're counted as a viewer. Yeah, so they're adding up how many total people watched a
certain amount of time of each show. That's why the rating itself was closer than the viewership number, because the rating is actually the average minute by minute, and aw's gap was smaller point eight four too point sixty six, So viewership difference was wider because people were channel flipping, but the rating actually wasn't that far apart, and it's
within reach for NXT to close that gap. Even if the demos don't look as good to the network executives in the overall ratings race, it's not a huge gap, so they both this is fun, this is competitive.
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Well, it's also right now. There's always going to be something you know that's just the way it works with sports and everything else, but just I have four million viewers watching ESPN for the wild Card baseball game last night too, So I'm guessing there's some potential wrestling viewers in that bunch that, had there not been a baseball playoff game, may have been watching one or both of these shows.
I think this rating is going to motivate both companies to work harder, and because it feels competitive, I think NXT thinks, hey, we're within reach to pull out a win if we do the right thing for the next six weeks. And I think AW feels a little vulnerable because this is the first week rating with a ton of hype. I think they feel good about their show. I wish they did a better job promoting next week show.
I wis both companies did. Yeah, neither gets a great grade in that regard, so maybe that sort of evens out or off sets that being a major factor. But overall, the aesthetics of the AW show is so major league. I don't think anyone's going to watch that and go oh, I mean this is minor league. I only want to
watch major league stuff. The downside would just be the depth of talent and not featuring there their real big attractions better than they did if you're AW so people are really hooked on seeing the Moxley story go forward. He did a brief brawl and a stunt bump. We didn't hear from him. We don't know what his mission statement is. You know, I think people would have been
let down by that. Kenny Omega doesn't seem like a major star, and you know, the bucks we didn't learn anything about if you're a new viewer to AW and certainly a lot of people were new viewers. So that's why I think where there the weakest aspect of last night show is Jason, just real quick and wrap up on this. What'd you think of Hogan and Flair on Miss TV? Because that was what I was going to ask you about if we didn't get the ratings.
Well, I guess Flair was. I mean, they were both who they are. You know Flair, you could tell they
they get paranoid every time he's out there. In this time they hit Randy Orton's music rather than let Rick give the introduction that he was literally going to and I mean Flare's fun, you know, and they don't like you know, they like to keep everything very regimented, and he goes very much against that, where Hogan was just Hogan I more important the way, I guess the big question that I have now when it comes to these numbers, and I think a lot of people are going to
when does the meddling begin? When you know, does Vince McMahon stay away? I mean, Paul Lavec has been very confident in saying that, but it's Vince McMahon, and Paulavec has also been very confident in saying that, you know that being at full sales not a factor's and you know, hey, maybe it won't be over time. I think it is
more more than I expected it to be. But I think he was pretty adamant with that, maybe too much, really defending being in the smaller venue, saying it's like going into a concert and seeing a band in a smaller venue as opposed to a stadium, and it's like, well, yeah, that's great for the people who are there. That's it's a very good analogy if you're there. But if I'm watching a concert at home on television, doesn't matter to me. I'd actually prefer the stadium and see all those people
rocking out. So you know, there's I think he went a little too aggressive in defending, you know, just kind of downplaying the idea that, hey, them being in a bigger venue is no big deal because we have full sale.
Yeah. I mean that's like saying, you know, I like that my kid tries hard at football even though he doesn't start, or you know, like I mean, it's sort of like it's like a nice thing to say if you're trying to put a positive spin on something. But I think they'd rather be in a big arena.
And I wonder if this you know, I mean, it's one show and naturally there's gonna be a lot of overreaction. Doesn't mean they're not going to be among those overreacting. Who knows if they're going to start going. You know what, we got to get this thing out as soon as we can. You know, full sale is great. I obtain the relationship, but you know, we need to get this show on the.
Road, absolutely, and I think they have the star power to do it. And with you know, nine hundred thousand million people watching the USA plus some cross promotion on Ron SmackDown, I think they can sell tickets. Tan xt tapings and obviously they can sprinkle in a dark match with the main roster guy if they want to try to help draw some fans who who only want to attend if they can see you know, Charlotte or Becky or.
Seth, or they can bring back end Zoe and just tour it is two of five live again and see how that goes.
Yes, yeah, all right, Jason, Thanks always fun. Check out Jason dot Everyone should check out your work at pro wrestling dot net and search pro wrestling Boom to listen to your podcast and follow your brand on Twitter at pro wrestling Net. I think I get it. Oh wait it go awesome, Go Twins, go Vikings, and go Wild, go Wild. Yes sorry, Minnesota sport sports teams are all having relevant days.
Ahead, well two of the three. I don't know about the Purple one anymore, but that's another story for another day.
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