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It's twelve pages every week packed with my TV reports, along with exclusive features such as my cover story on the top story of the week, our pay per view roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and Zach Hadorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more. PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. Take a break from screen time and settle in every week with the
megadosup wrestling news and analysis. With a Pro Wrestling Torch Newsletter paper Copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two, you can get a full year of home delivery for just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight week trial subscription. PW torch dot Com Slash Paper Copy. Now PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. This is PW Torch editor Wade Keller with quick introduction to today's double header. Fifteen years ago
flashback here on the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. First up, the June eighteenth, twenty ten PW Torch live cast with James Caldwell from PW Torch and also PW Torch nostalgia specialist Brian Hoops, talking with live callers about t and impact from the night before the Big j Lethal and Ric Flair, Angle Tena's build up to a four way match at the next pay per view compared to WWE's build for their Fatal four Way, John Cena's almost comical
comments and media interviews, why Sena is endorsing Brian Danielson and why he did not endorse mister Anderson in wwe possible plans for the Money of the Bank pay per view involving NXT rookies, Will John Cena and Jack Swager have lengthy title runs, is TNA discipline enough to stretch
out Kurt Angle's Number one quest? And much more? And then in the previously VP exclusive after show, they discussed the four Way pay per view and whether it's worth ordering Batisa's potential MMA transition, Grizzly Smith, the Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame, and also scoop on an upcoming nostalgia podcast interview with Brian Hoops. Then, on the June twenty first, twenty ten episode, James Calden was joined by Greg Parks and they talked with live callers about the previous night's
Fatal Four Way pay per view. The major angles from that pay per view covered, including Ray Mysterio's world title victory, Seamus's title win, WWE hot shotting title changes, another conversation about Jack Swager's future and upside, the NXT invasion angle on the pay per view, and the follow up on raw backstage politics in WWE, the ROH Internet pay per view, and more. So, Let's get to it. This is the Way Keller prog Wrestling Podcast fifteen years ago, doubleheader Flashback four Monday June.
No. You are listening to the PW Torch Live Cast. I am PW Torch Assistant Editor James Caldwell hosting today and I'm joined by Torch Nostalgia specialist Brian Hoops on a fine Friday afternoon. Brian, how are you doing today?
Hey?
I'm doing real good. How are you? James doing well?
Been up early, watched the World Cup, been covering tons of news this week. Seriously before Kevin the are i mentioned this to you that it feels like almost Wrestlednia week in certain respect because Ring of Honor has a pay per view this weekend. WNWE has a pay per view. TNA has been in the news. It feels like every time I cover a new interview, another interview comes up, and there's no shortage of topics this week. It's been very,
very busy. But what's kind of been your standout story of the week is wv T and a Ring of un or something else. What's kind of in that top story for you this week?
Well, like you said, there's there's no shortage of news this week, there's you know, tons of things going on. CNA came off of a a pay per view event and they followed up with some TV shows last night that you know, kind of like the same week, the same show the week before, some good, some bad.
Uh.
You know, You've got seen and talking a lot about his top five angles and wrestling history, and Shame is making an interview. You've got Okay, I guess all kinds of things to talk about. Like you said, there's tons of interviews with people out there. UFC events coming up this weekend. Ringer Honor has a pay per view. I think WWE has pay per views, so the Biggie Weekend as well.
Right, And what's been such a such I guess fun and also uh thinking your head would explode at times. Is covering John Zena's PR interviews. I mean just some of the the quotes he throws out there, and I
should some of it. It's just funny to cover. And you had a line today about comparing Seamus to the Stone Cold Steve Austin and with the whole idea that Seamus the first started into the scene like Austin, and it's like, no, Austin completely changed the entire period of business when he burst and under the scene, and Mad's such a big splash during the Attitude era when he transformed the Stone Cold. Seamus is just sort of a big player who's been inserted into some man event matches
and had a brief title run. But no, they don't even try to compare Seamus the Stone Cold. But what was your take when you read that quote from Ceda today just name dropping Steve Austin in the same sentence as Seamus.
Yeah, you know, it's just mind boggling that he came up with that type of a comparison. You know, Austin was in the business in WCW for four years before he went to WWF, even after he was in WWS from ninety five and Winner all the way till ninety six King of the Ring, so it was a good six months before he had any type of a real push. You know, fans remember he was the ring master first
before he was Stone Cold Steve Austin. They paired up with Ted Dibiassi and Debiossi did all the speaking for him. They didn't let Stone Cold speak at all. And so you know, there's really no correlation between a guy like Steve Austin and Seamus as far as the way they've been pushed. Their personalities are completely different. Their impact so far on the business in the industry again completely different. So it's just a comment that's made out of completely
out of left field. And you know, and he's seen I'm talking about now, has had a history of doing that. You know, if you remember some comments he made when
the ben Was scandal broke about three years ago. He was one of the people that they've sent on Larry King and some of the other shows, and some of the things he said then was just eyebrow raising, and he's continued that it seems like if he doesn't have everything scripted out for him, uh, he's he's having a hard time thinking on his own feet and coming up with his own responses in these interview settings.
The sounds that win the man.
I mean, if if McMahon isn't prompted and isn't coached on what to say in interviews or promotional campaign speeches, she usually says something that gets her in trouble. And look at that Business Week interview McMahon did I guess that threaded a couple of weeks ago and talking about steroids, and then her campaign manager had to come back and kind of clean up that mess you got seen out here.
When he's not really coached or prepared, or if he's just even if he has coached and prepared, he'll just say he'll say something completely off the wall, and then it kind of fits w e and kinda Wade Keller wrote about today with their their corporate manual on how to handle mainstream PR interviews and some of the things that are set are just so off the wall. See
it being the top guy in that category. And Seamus as has said some really off the wall comments as well, not only off the wall, but just sort of company, you know, towing that company line promote to that four way pay per view on Sunday with you know, the whole anything could happen tagline, and it's just it's it's just so laughable sometimes reading what people say, and it just I don't know, I don't know what to make of it. But but well, what do you make of
the pay per view on Sunday? Brian? You've got four matches official. Another match will be announced on smack goun a very light lineup in terms of the number of matches, uh, five matches total after tonight your headline matches with the ww title Johnson to defending world title, Jack Slagger defending. They're trying to incorporate those NX two rookies into an angle to perhaps influence some buys that anything could happen on this pay per view. I don't really buy that
that's gonna work. But what's your take on the pay per view hype and the pay per view itself with that lineup?
You know, I I think they did a really poor job on Raw on Monday Night of hyping this pay per view and making it feel like there is a special event coming up. I looked for this by rate of this pay per view to do real poorly. Last month's pay per view I think did the third lowest by rate in the last four or five years, from you know, trailing the Cyber Sunday I think two thousand and six and also the December to Remember show that
was kind of an ECW promotion. You know, you're you're probably gonna take this this pay per view by even lower than last month. The only good thing for for WW is this the Spike or the UFC special is on Spike on Saturday night, and it's not a pay per view event, so there isn't you know, there's a little competition, but not something that somebody has to pay for, so they're gonna, you know, create can take a little solace in that effect. But I don't look for this
pay per view to do real well. You know, the fans have seen fall Away before, so that's nothing that's gonna stand out.
It seems like to me.
That they've made this four way just you know, a pay per view event, and that's the only reason that you would watch it is for the if you like four way matches, that that's what you want by it. There doesn't seem to be that general feeling to me anyway that there's a legitimate grudge that needs to be settled here and you're certainly not going to do it with a four way match in set up a one on one encounter.
Right There isn't that that organic reason for this pay per view. It's it We'll have talked about this before in the line cast that if they set it up where three three contenders had a rightful claim to that title was Seamus and Edge and Orton, then yeah, maybe there is a reason that have a four way pay per view. And if there were there were, if Sampunk, Big Show and Raymond Seio had rightful claims to the World Everyway title, then yeah, maybe there's a reason for
a four why pay per view. But they didn't go that route and as a result, these matches are occurring without it, without a real reason for recurring. It's just the sort of marketing idea that WW has come up with without really thinking about does this make sense? Is there a reason for customers that want to order this pay per view to see an issue settled or a drudge resolved, and there isn't that reason.
I think the CM Punk Raymon.
Serial feud is has been hurt the most because of this pay per view. Just have any of the views going on ran on an edge. There are a few kind of hopefully they kind of died down at that last pay per view when they had the non finished but ryand Punk had a high issue, and now they've been inserted into this four way match, and that the issue that Fews kind of died not now died down, lost a lot of steam, and I just I really disagree. Excuse me, I disagree with the direction of these gimmick
concept pay per views. It doesn't help or enhance the storylines, it doesn't sell pay per views based on was one on one matchups that traditionally sells pay per views. So what we have are two title matches that you know could be reasonably good, but are many people gonna be watching it?
Probably not.
It's just sort of that environment w is is in, right. They're in between Russellmania, they're in between summerste and sure Russellmania SummerSlam, and they're trying to find ways to make money with these pay per views, but it's not working and I think we're gonna.
See that again on Sundays, so, you know, I think CNA. You know, it's interesting they kind of copied the next pay per view format. I think it's Victory Road. They're going to have a four way match for the title
as well, just like WWE is. But I think they actually did a little bit better job in creating an environment why they're having a four way Not that I think it's a great situation that they've created here, but last night on Impact, they had three top contenders going for the right to challenge Rout Van Damn, a triple count out, no winner until all three of those guys get a title shot.
No, I don't.
I'm not really hundred percent behind that idea. There's a lot of logic holes in there that they left, but at least they tried to create a reason that all three of those guys are coming into face Route Van dam and have earned the rights with ww You know, why is this? Why are we having one on SmackDown and on Raw? It's obviously just because of the gimmick pay per view, and it's not because of any major grudge or or anything else that needs to be settled.
It's not an emotional issue, and I think that'll translate into the bands and you know, maybe your hardcores will buy it. A lot of people could skip over this pay per view.
Hey, you make a good point on TNA. I thought they did something's pretty well last I don't know, they did somethings really poorly. But one of the things, like you just said, is they created the background, the backdrop, the foundation for the next pay per view main event with three guys having a rightful claim to the title, or at least a rightful claim to challenge for the title. And it will see how it plays out and we'll see how that issue develops the next three weeks to
TV leading the pay per view. But you make a really good point, Brian, that you know that at least they created something where there's a reason for a four way match. I don't like this idea of a triple count out. That's just it just reeks of Vince Russo booking. But at least the the the end result is yes, there's a reason for a four way didn't create any reason for either of their four way matches on Sunday's pay per view, and I think that's gonna hurt buys.
No matter how they try to sell this is anything could happen, and Terry Lawler can repeat that line over and over again. It's just Yeah, I think people see through that this is kind of a skippable pay per view.
So yeah, yeah, I do too, And I don't really love this concept and I don't like na how they you know, I don't like that logic either, as far as just giving. You know, nobody won the match, so all three guys to get a title shot. There's there's some logic goals there, but at least they made a conscience effort for a reason that three guys were in there.
I don't agree.
With that, are like it, but there I'll give them credit for at least making it an effort to try and build some storyline.
Right.
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We want everyone listening to join us on the phone lines and contribute to the show. We're talking wweet and a ring them, honor anything else going on wrestling today at a very busy Friday, on a very busy week of wrestling news covers so lots of talk about, lots to bring up. Go to join the phone lines and give us a call to contribute to the show. Number to call it six four, six seven.
Eight.
Let's go to our first caller today. This is the two NY one area code, which I was Houston. So joy one, welcome to the Show's teach your name for us.
All right, this is JAD Houston. How you guys doing today?
Good?
Are you doing there?
I'm doing great.
I have a question about John Cena.
All right, what you got? Okay, As you guys.
Were just talking about earlier, John Cena has been doing these interviews and he's been talking about the young guys getting their opportunity to shine. And my opinion is when Kennedy got released last year, John Sena didn't say anything, he didn't come to his defense, and as we all know,
Kennedy clearly had more upside than the other guys. And I was listening to the show yesterday and you all were talking about them having the always having the two top guys, whether it was Brent and Sean or Rock in Austin, and and as far as microphone skills, I saw Kennedy being that perfect rival to seen it as far as having microphone skills and that upside to be
that megastar. Do you think that there was any just see or insecurities on seeing this part that may have prevented him speaking up for Kennedy or what's your opinion on that?
That's a that's a good question, Jay Brian, what's your what's your on Kennedy and that praps his interactions with Sena before Kennedy with the TNA.
Well, I think you're making a good question there. I think there's a little bit different of opinion here from the standpoint of Vince McMahon. You know, Sena's not dumb by any such imagination. You know, he McMahon really soured on Kennedy when he was released and for Cena to go against the Green and call out McMahon and say that Kennedy shouldn't have been released or should have should have stuck around. I think would have, you know, rubbed McMahon the wrong way. And I don't think mcmhon has
soured on Brian Danielson at all at this point. I think he wants to bring him back, and I fully expect that he will be brought back. I think Seene at this point is saying something about Brian Danielson because he knows he's going to come back and he wants to show his support for him versus mister Kennedy. He knew he wasn't going to be brought back. Everyone had soured on him in the locker room, especially Randy Orton
and Vince McMahon has really given up on him. So at that point, you know, it wasn't worth, you know, seeing us saying anything. So I don't know if there's a personal animosity between the two or any jealousy. I just think, you know, Sena saw it as a loss cause to say anything about Kennedy and sees that Brian Danielson's coming back and going to be a star. At some point in the in the WWE.
Okay with that name said, do you think Kennedy would ever come back to the WWE?
Uh? Yeah, I mean down the road, I could very well have seen him going back to w W. It's kind of it's almost the same thing where at kind of parallel it to Matt Morgan. Now, Morgan was in w B, he was underutilized, they settled him with that stuttering gimmick. He went to TNA. He struggled his first couple of years in TNA, just couldn't find himself as a character. And now he's doing great heel work and I'm sure he'll end up on ww's radar. Same with
Kennedy or Anderson, who he came to TNA. He got over, he developed his personality, that's over with that audience, and eventually I'm sure he'll be back on ww's radar. It might take a couple of years or I mean, obviously depends on whether Anderson sees TNA is a long term option for his career in wrestling. But I imagine that if if WW got a better sense of him, and if Anderson seemed, I guess maybe willing to make some adjustments on his end to send into that WW environment.
But yeah, I could see him going back down the road some you know, a couple of three, four or five years from now. I mean, if you last that long and he stayed that long the wrestling, that doesn't go off and do acting full time. But Briant, what's your sense of whether you see Anderson back in WWE in the future.
Well, I think at some point he'll be back. You know, you never seen everet wrestling, and there's almost everybody that's left WWE at some point has come back. And again, I certainly could see mister Anderson coming back to WW at some point, you know. And I think your analogy about Matt Morgan is real good here. He's He's a guy that also is probably on their radar. He's got great size, He's really improved his game and kind of
found his own character. He's a guy that could be brought back as well some point down the road.
Jay, and the other question or follow.
Up, yes, one more sure do you want to know when thema Jones contract is up and if WW has any interest in him?
In vice Presia Samoa Joe's contract said, I'm sure I remember the last time he signed a deal with T and A. I don't remember off the top of my head. W B. I mean he doesn't fit their body type. He doesn't fit their sort of their style there may event style wrestling. He's not the typical athlete. He's not a Zach Ryder John Morrison type body. Brian, what's your sense of whether show would go to w B and W would take him? And do you know anything more about his his TNA contract status.
I could be wrong, but I think he signed about eighteen months ago. But I may be way off on that, but I think that's pretty close and I don't have any idea how long his contract was for. You're right, he doesn't have a right body type, he doesn't write, work the right style. There isn't anything real appealing about
where he is for the w W brand. You know, they want these guys that are, you know, more of a select body type and a certain working style for their house shows, for the merchandise, for their pay per views and TV. Everything's pretty much the same kind of
a cookie cutter and smaller Joe doesn't sit in that mold. Now, if you back the old territorial days, that would be a huge asset for Somolo Joe, you know, because something different that stood out that would make him stand out mate, would make him in an attraction.
Uh.
You know, so he may be better fit for TNA if he can get the right push, because as bad as he's been pushed over the last twelve months, the crowd is still really behind him and would even get behind him more with the right.
Push at those times.
Let's continue on to the Uh, let's go to ninety five one area code nine five to one. Welcome to the show, please station and know where you're from. Hello, nine one five Are you're on the air with us?
Oh?
Oh man, I must have said ninety I'm at nine one five.
Go ahead.
Hey, thanks for taking my call. I'm just curious, how do you guys like watch watch the shows? He watched them live with the d v R, because I find it unlogical live.
I'm curious I watch if.
I watched the wrestling show, I typinalely watch it live. I mean, I'll watch SmackDown that to the fact, I'll watch that it kind of fast forward to the commercials on SmackDown, but Raw Live, NXT Live, Impact Live unless I watched that after the fact and go through commercials, but that's part of our job. Our job is to watch every part of that show and analyze what work, what didn't work, and convey whether this is worth your
time watching the show to our readers. So, right, how do you watch wrestling on TV?
Raw is about the only thing that I would watch live. Everything else is on some sort of a tape delay so that I can fast forward through the commercials or rewind something that. You know, if there's some part that I missed that and I can't understand why they're doing something, I need to go back and try and figure it out. So almost everything is for me anyway on some sort of a delay, except that if I watch RAW, it'll be on live. But for the last two weeks for me,
it's been But this is terrible. It's turn the channel line jumping better to watch?
Yeah, especially the viewers choice RAW two weeks ago. That was I mean, it's bad. That was hard to sit through just covering it watching it live. So if you were watching it to the fact and yeah, three hours of that was, I'm eventually with two hours and fifty minutes of crap and maybe question whether I'm watching a wrestling show or some abortion of an entertainment product and
then they at an XT angle. I mean there were there was a point in that Viewers Choice Raw where I was tending to email Wade and say, what what are we covering? Are we even covering the wrestling show? Are we covering a really bad two and a half hour in XT I mean started in life? Skinned you know something that would even they would even make past the dress rehearsals. But that only eighteen garbage nonsense. So yeah, there are times when it's difficult, but yeah, that's our job.
Our job is to watch that show and and watch every show and cover it as if it's the you know, a show that everyone If you figure that everyone wants, you're not showing us some interest in somewhere or another. One segment might pique someone's interest more than it was somebody else. So that's our job as a cover and see what works, what doesn't work, and evaluate that product. So we have to watch everything forward. Did you did you have another follow up another question on that? Yeah?
Yes, because I don't want to say, like you guys that like cynical or ass gated professionals because you have to watch it, But did you like I'm that rare guy. I like the TNA products better than w W, so I know that makes me a you know, ray or strange. But my did you out loud with just the flat out loud where you know, with the Rick Flair did they need to do that data part?
Oh yeah, that's great. Yeah, go ahead and talk about that. I have my own take on that. What's your what's your take on that angle? You know?
Uh?
I know Reck Flair behind the scenes really loved Jay Leeth for doing the impression, and you at ce Flarics last night, even with some edits that you could see how much he was enjoying it in a space he's having enough tough time trying to keep him laughing and smiling at it.
You know.
I there was parts of it that I think went on too long, but for the most part, it's it's really done. Wonders for Jay Lethal to be put on the radar the first three months of Hogan and Bishoff of this year, he was not to be heard from and hardly ever seen. In fact, you remember he was getting beaten by Jim Knightheart and Chris Chavez. I think came in beating one time in a couple of minutes and you know, now he's getting a pay per view match with aj Styles. Now it's going to be Rick Flair.
So it's actually you know, yeah, elevated him to a pay per view level, and he's got the in ring talent, he's got the promobility. He could be a really big star for TNA. And I'm a real big fan of Jay Lethal. You know, they needed something, he needed something to break out of the pack, so to speak, or elevate his game. And I think he's founded here with Player, and Player is a big fan of it. You know, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this.
I thought it was very entertaining, very hilarious, probably the best thing on the show last night. You know, just want to make sure that they don't overdo this gimmick with with Jay Leaf and that he gives Jay Lethal and not just some imitation for Flayer.
My take on that segment was, I mean, it was absurd. It was an absurd segment, and you can almost use that word in a positive or negative way in that sense. My problem was I thought it was a little bit too let's entertain the rest source backstage was entertain the boys if you will. And I really didn't think it helped business. I really don't think it helped sell that pay per view. They gave away a lot of the interaction.
It was really entertaining, but I don't think it was entertaining in a way that's going to sell a pay per view match. I mean, so you get the big segment of them going back and forth on TV. It's intense, it's back and forth. Flayer's sweating, he's stripping, He's all over the place, Letho is going nuts, he's dropping the elbow, and then they want to sell you in just instead of basic wrestling match where Flair and Leiths are gonna
go back and forth. And I'm not really sure that a match can settle whatever issues they are presented in this feud. I just I didn't feel like it was good for business. And you know, in the next three weeks you can kind of hammer home and a marketing plan to sell that pay per view on that matchup. But I thought they gave away a lot of what
could have been intriguing for that pay per view. Do you agree with her or did you see that It's just it was a good TV segment to build up their first encounter on pay per view in a wrestling match.
I think, you know, the key is gonna be going forward. Is this g Lethal making fun and mocking Rick Flair and to build towards a match on pay per view? Or is this Lethal doing you know what he believes he is Rick Flair as much as what he did when he did the Brandy Savage game make and rip off there, he he almost was thinking he was Black machismo and and he lost his own character. I think if they don't cross that line, I think it's okay.
You know, I really enjoyed. Uh this is a bad example, but back in the attitude there, the Rock would have great interactions, very entertaining television and interviews. It didn't necessarily build towards a pay per view match, but it was entertaining and got fans involved enough to watch the product, and and you know built from there and Rock became
a star. You know, I don't know Jay Lethal can go to that extreme, but if he can stay within his own character of Jay Lethal, imitate Rick Flair and uh, you know Tromp Flair get under his skin and build towards the match, I'm gonna let him go with it and give him the benefit of the doubt on this.
Yeah. No, I agree, there's there's long term benefit and I I definitely agree at that point if they can make Lethal a star that's going to help their business down the road. And if this is their method to get to that point with Rick Flair involvement and Flair kind of giving the Lethal that endorsement by being involved in this program, yeah, I can see the benefit to it. I think short term, I don't really know if it
helped business too much. We'll see where the build up goes to that pay per view, But I'm kind of wait and see on whether this highly interesting segment helps business, So we'll see, right.
I don't think it will help in the short term. I think one of the things that they have lacked is ability to build stars or create characters that are going to be stars. They don't have that star power.
And if they if they got.
Something with Jay Lethal and they can build him into a star of p and a more power to him, I think that will help long term.
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Let's go back to the phone lines. Let's go to the nine to one area code. Now one no, welcome to the show. Please take you don know where you're from.
He didn't handle for fifth North Carolina.
Hey, how y'all doing?
Hannibal Friday goad to have you on the show.
Okay, okay, yes, I think you had to finish up my question you know about you know, you know, do y'all think that Russo? You I act dis shop and Hogan anything to Russo's looking because I feel like this though, if they didn't have nothing to do with his booking, Okay, why did Valvenus beat Daniels less than you know, like in less than a month after you know he'd been pushed a month ago and then also too, why did you know why I'm bitch getting to push off of a sudden it seemed like that was.
The Hogan's I did before you know they came in. What y'all take on that?
I think when so it's going back to February or January February, I think they saw more value in Sean Morley Valvenus because of his past w B career, his name value based. I believe they saw more value in him than Daniels as sort of a quote unquote homegrown talent, which has been proven to be the wrong course of action.
I think teenagers. I think Eric Bischoff and hop o' coogan came in with the idea of pushing who they know and trying to make stars of some of the guys who've been underutilized in TNA, and that's kind of the two factors that came together. Daniels wasn't high on their priority lists, and he was kind of he was, you know, he was. He was given that loss to Sean Morley on that first pay per view under Hogan and Bishop, and then Morley disappeared, you know, he left
the company, disappeared, and Daniels was released a couple months later. So, Brian, what's your take on how Russo and Bischoff and Hogan all of them have kind of developed a booking pattern or scheme over these first six months of twenty ten.
Well, you and I I think bast time we were on we talked how this is Actually it seems like we've changed bookers or slowed down to booking in the last couple of weeks, you know, before Hogan and Bischoff took power. At the end of two thousand nine, we had some really good pay per view main event matches.
We had Styles and Joe against Christopher Daniels in a three way, and I think just styles against Christopher Daniels in their title match, and we had some decent matches because there wasn't so much focus on the silly booking that we saw early part of January February, and we're starting to see that pattern develop again here. I think, you know, we've slowed down a lot easier, are a lot more and the storylines are a little bit easier to follow now. You know, a week ago there was
only three or four matches. Last night there was a few more matches, and there's a lot of still illllogical things happening, but at least the storylines are starting to slow down. We're not seeing, you know, Scott Hall being pushed and the Nasty boys being pushed anymore. It's some of these other guys that are starting to get another chance to take a run with the ball here. So it seems to me like there's been behind the scenes at least maybe a little bit of change in the
booking patterns. You know, Whether that means less or more of Russell, I'm not sure, but I have noticed that things are a little bit easier to follow over the last several weeks.
Hannibal another follow up for question.
Okay, okay, I'm was okay, get too quick one of it.
Okay, I know what, I'll talk a while ago far as the Jay Lethal push, I remember the originals before Hogan came in, was that had gonna lose these guys, lose to these former stars and then end up, you know, realizing that he hang out to beat Black Macheese or you can just beat himself or whatever.
And also the other question too that I think rih.
O is gonna get a major TV deal in the future.
Do any think Ring of Honor is gonna get major TV deal? Is that your question, Hannibal, Mm hmm. I don't believe so. I think they're pretty much committed to hd Net. I think HG Net's committed to them. Brian, what you're taking Ring of Honor and the first part of Hannibal's question, J Yeah, As far.
As the Ring of Honor, I think, like you said, they're committed to hd net and I think if they would like to stay with hd net and anticipation that that network will start to grow and build under Mark Cuban. You know, they're getting a lot of M M A type programming on that on that channel as well, and they're I think they're hoping to do what you know
ended up happening with Spike It. It grew and grew to a bigger channel and was available in more homes over time, and I think that's the route they're trying to take. And as far as Jay Lethal losing to those guys, uh, you know, where was the payoff ever on that. You know, everything that you do should build
towards something or some payoffs down the road. You know, this is your commodity, is your TV time that they have and the matches, it made Jay Lethal look like a jobb or because he lost to these guys been on TV in ten years and were out of shape and came in and beat him, and then it just looked like anybody out the street could be Ja Lethal. So I don't think it did anything to help el
him at all. And it's you know, it's really him being uh coozing up with Flair here in this angle and Flair getting behind him for him to start getting the push again.
We have reached the top of the hour. We want to thank everyone who's listening in on the pib Torch live cast live with us on the air or on iTunes or in the Torch VIP section or on blog talk radio. If you want to join the live discussion, the number to call is six four, six seven one nine eight two eight. Let's go back to the phone line. Let's go to the two to one area code two and oh, welcome to the show. Please stay to name and where you're from.
Al Right, guys, this is Cameron from Austin.
Cameron from Austin. How's it going in Austin today?
How it's ninety six degrees outside?
It's just going well? I think I think it's ninety three here in Houston. So y'all are y' already beating us right now? But Dahea, what do you have for us today?
All right, just a couple of things. As far as Jay Leathal goes, you got took the words right out of my mouth. I think it's great that, especially before I guess Bishoff and Hogan came in. He was, you know, he hadn't want to match on TV in like a year or something to that effect. I really like it when they just let guys go out there and say you're talented. Show it's your talent. I think one thing WW is always guilty of is that minorities always have
to play a character that's designated for minorities. They have rappers and guys like MVP that are like that too, style athlete.
So it's nice to see a person of color.
Go out there and just be able to do their thing, even if it is a limitation of somebody else.
It's a walcome thing to see. Agree.
As far as as far as the question goes, I'm a big fan of current angle. When he gave up kind of his spot in the top ten rankings and wanted to work.
His way back up.
I think it really gives a chance for a lot of fresh matchups things like that. My question is, with the way things the TNA jump around and the fact that they want to hotshot things about ratings and everything, you think they can actually let it play out to where he beats everybody in the rankings and marks his way to the title, you know, nine ten months down the road. Do you think that's something that's actually gonna last?
Very good question. It would be very much out of TNA's character to let's let a storyline play out for six months. The last time I can remember the storyline a really a real storyline kind of play out over a period of time. Was probably Samoa Joe when he won that team a ROLD title in eight and then he was kind of in Kevin Nash's shadow for about six months until Bound for Glory when he dropped the title, and he was kind of this hot headed champion. Nation
is trying to control him, to calm him down. I really can't think of another long term storyline that's played out. Angle hit on his quest to the number one would be a really good consistent storyline to see play out over time. Brian, do you think they're disciplined enough to not jump right to number one? Had him challenge RVD for that title? Or do you see Hi maybe holding off until RVD and Angle perhaps it down for Glory in October. Do you think that's within the realm of possibility for TNA.
Well, I don't think Vince Russo is disciplined enough to hold off on that. He's proven that over time with this track record. Eric Dishoff, on the other hand, has showed us with the you know the Bill to Sting in Stark nineteen ninety seven, he was disciplined enough, you know that was a big money program that he could have went to a lot earlier than he did, but he's you know, give him his credit at that time. He stuck to his guns and played off that. T
and A has done a couple of different angles. You know, you mentioned a couple of their games they had. Christian Cage was undefeated for I think like a year that he was in and smallA Joe was undefeated for two three years, never been ten. So they've done a couple of those type of gimmicks and have had the discipline to do it. I guess I'm hopeful that they won't rush through this with Kurt Angle. I think it's a really good story, especially for his age and the place
and career that Kurt Angle's in. If they would go to Kurt Angle, you know, climbing this ladder to get to the championship match and do just the matches on a pay per view basis. You know, Kurt is now a rank number nine. He tries to go the next leadder at the next pay per view, And that's really the only story that you need for Kurt Angle at this point. He's good enough in the ring, he's good enough outside of the ring. He doesn't need anything else.
Just let him be this quest for the championship and let it play out over eight nine months and you know, as you have eight or nine more matches to get to rout van Dam. That'll take you through at least through the rest of this year into an early part of the twenty eleven.
And there's some good matchups along the way to revisit, I mean, to have first time matchups and revisit. You've got Des and Wolft, I mean, Wolf's had some great matches with Angle. At the end of nine, you have Samoa Joe. I know what Joe and Angle are capable of. So you can march through this list. I mean, Jeff Hardy is on that list. It kind of did your way to RVD and have some really good pay per view matches and some good TV matches with proper build
up and hin. So I really hope that they stick to this, they kind of march their way to number one and then really have that epic matchup that could really sell a pay per view by itself. So we'll see if they if they get to that point, or if they'll pull it tical a little a little bit earlier than maybe they should. Cameron anything else from near the follow up.
One more thing, I remember a couple of years ago, I guess when Dessi Rhodes was ducted into the Hall of Fame. They l it was before Cody had been in WW and he got up there and he got on the mic for a while just talking about his dad's accomplishments in their family. And I always thought the guy's in that family, they're just so talented, but nobody ever had that look to where they can have like that at that kind of mainstream appeal. Cody comes along and he's, you know, half the size of his dad
and his brother, but in a good way. Like the kid's got a great bill and he's right on the mic and seeing him on SmackDown, he can really go in the ring. I'm just curious, you know, seeing his how Kidney the Aussie's really the one in nineteen everybody thought was gonna be a breakout star and it remains to be seen. But how high do you think Cody Stock can rats?
I think he can go real high. The one thing that's going to hold him back is his size. He's not a big dude. He's not He's not a tough looking heel. He's not your classic big man heel that w B likes to push and then sort of feed to John Cena down the road.
He's a guy that I mean.
I really saw something on the NXT show on Tuesday, just that promo he cut at the end of NXT was a really strong dromo, really good mic work and the ring on SmackDown. You're right cameraon. He's done really good work on SmackDown since being drafted over. I think it's just a matter of it's a matter of time and who the champion is and the right opportunity to
come along. But I really see him having I'm right now, I see him having more upside than Debios right now, I just don't see I don't think Debias's shown as much as as Cody Rhodes since they split up. Legacy Brian, what's your take on Kobe Rhoads and perhaps if you were to compare him in debiast, which one do you think has more upside? Right now?
You know, everybody's like you said, is given Ted Debiasse the green light to go to head to the next level a lot faster than Cody Rhads And maybe that's a good thing for Roads that the spotlight isn't on him,
or the pressure isn't on him right now. You know, when when wrestling created stars that became big stars in the eighties and nineties, it was because they had worked several different territories and had several years under their belt working in front of smaller crowds to learn how to wrestle and do matches and work on their promos in front of small TVs. You know that's changed now. They
don't have that opportunity anymore. They're not getting the type of season me and it takes guys a while, you know, sometimes it takes Look at Steve Austin. You'll start wrestling in eighty nine and it wasn't until ninety six where he became this breakout, stone cold character that changed the business. So it took him six seven years. If you give roads to Debiosti that same type of opportunity six seven years down the road, both those guys are gonna be big stars.
Yeah, Debiosite just needs time. It's just a matter of time for him. I just I haven't liked what they've done with him with the million hour gimmick. I just it just hasn't fit yet. And then he's been sort of doing that bit with the radcast host.
Not a big fan of that, especially the eight.
Team stuff a couple of weeks ago. That was just bad TV. I don't know, We'll see as they can find something different for debiosk to do. I think the Virgil thing was a nice, short term little way to get debiosit a consistent TV exposure, But I think that's gonna run its course.
So I'm just gonna move up and move.
A long I can find something different for Debios to do it continue to develop him on TV as a character in in the ring. I mean, he's good in the ring, not flashy, which is fine. But they're gonna find something different, a different program for him and see if they can find something else that might work.
So now, James, do you think that if they would move him over to SmackDown that would be a benefit for his career. I mean, I see Cody rogues on SmackDown, gain an opportunity to wrestle longer matches, stay away from some of these stupid skits, and and maybe even get some time to speak on a microphone because SmackDown is a more heavily wrestling focused show rather than the Thurday Night like Night Live aspect that Monday Night Raw is Yeah, I agree with that, I don't.
I yeah, that's a good point. I don't think the Debian is a really good fit on Raw by himself. I mean, he was finally l like to see and Randy Orton. But I think he make a good point Brian that perhaps he's just not a good fit on Raw, that he needs to be somewhere where he can showcase is his rustled ability. It's got a good personality that I think would seem larger than life on SmackDown. Smackdowns, you know a lot of times they just kind of have these I don't want to say drab, but sort
in dry characters and dry personalities. I think Debians would add something different on SmackDown and stand now to where he can get over on SmackDown and then be moved to Raw and already be established as a main event level star and they can integrate him onto Raw. So I think they've kind of gotten him out of backwards with debofs prefs, and that might be what's hurting him right now, is it's just maybe not a good sit
on Raw right now. It's always more over as a guy who's taken seriously about the audience.
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You are listening to the pn B Torch live cast. We're down to the last twenty minutes or so in the broadcast. If you want to jump on the phone lines and give us a call in the last course from the show with myself, Torch's assistant editor James Caldwell, and Torch Nostalgia columnist Brian Hoops. The number to call is six four, six seven two one nine to two eight. Let's continue on to the sixty five to one area code sixty five one. Welcome to the show. Please stay
you name and where you're from? Heyday?
Can I call it James?
It's Mike from Webury, Minnesota.
Hey Mike, what's going on?
Noting? Watch?
Just join the weekend?
YEP.
I gotta bring up a point, uh from Monday's rod that hasn't been talked about, but I really disliked the throwing out of the four four mid carters for the fully match on Monday Night with sin Our Truth, the Miz and Uh, I'm it's escaping me. Who the fourth guy was?
Right now?
Morris, John Morrison, the Miz Our Truth and oh Zach Ryder.
Yeah, and Zach Ryder, Oh, I love I Love Rider. But they did it to show the audience what a great thing, how cool the fatal full way match idea is. And then the finish of the match is what you do in fatal full ay matches. I mean the heel taking advantage of the face going over on the champion. I mean that's to me, that's the finish of the smack Down match. Sunday is Raymond Sterio hits the sixth one night on on punkin Slager. It's in his character to fly out of nowhere to puck aside and then
their toss lay aside. I mean they if they had a First Blood pay per view, they wouldn't showcase, you know, first Blood match six days before the pay per view, have the heal get cut open, not have the rest see it, and then but the base open.
They wouldn't do that, or are they?
They'd be stupid they did.
I just thought that move over the radar or everybody. I really didn't like that that idea.
Yeah, and I could see why it flew in the radar. There was a lot of stuff on that show. And also it was an okay match. I mean it was
a decent TV match. But you're exactly right, Mike. The booking was, we're gonna give away that finish, We're going to give away a title change, we're gonna show you how one of these match is going to end, and like you said, it's sort of this, it sort of sid to be's attempt, I stress attempt the mark of this pay per view as anything could happen and the champion is always in jeopardy, and this sort of nonsense with a pay per view build up Brian, what was
your take on the way that match was books and you they gave away just way too much. They kind of ruined that that sales pitch for the pay per view on Sunday.
Well, it's nothing that we haven't seen from both T and A and WW before. They both companies are guilty of that where they will give away a few days
before the pay per view that exact same match. You remember T and A has done several times where they've build up to lockdown, they'll have a cage match and six days later you're supposed to pay for it on pay per view, And it's the kind of the same concept here and you and to bring up good point their color that they they had this four way match six days before the pay per view and it's really stupid that they would they would do that, And you know,
I think it's a concept that's way overused. I really hate the concept anyway that the champion may not have to be pinned and you can still lose his title. To me, you know, the titles are one that should be one on one contest who's a better man? Not you know, you will beat somebody else who's maybe the fourth best challenger and match and I beat him and I become the champion. That's not how the Super Bowls decided and to me, that's not how wrestling should be decided to either.
Yeah, and I think gonna be. It's almost an overcompensation where they want to get away from a lot of focus on traditional wrestling storytelling building toward money matches. They want to have more of these sort of events, these concept pay per views, these special attractions. It's almost like a Battle Royal every month now. They just want to have a Battle Royal and have that be their drawing card, you know, just kind of create some sort of analogy
to what they're trying to do. They're trying to create this attraction every month on pay per view, but it's not drawing consistently. You've got to have those one on one matchups that people have either a guy they like or a guy they dislike, and they want to see the guy they like win or the guy they just like lose. And that's just basic stories and that's what makes money and wrestling. UFC Sports World Cup, I mean, I I mean, I'm I watched soccer, uh sometimes because
you know, Houston has a local team. I got to a couple of games once in a while, but I looked in the World Cup because I want to see a team win the USA and I want to see some other teams lose. Being the other teams in our bracket or our pool have labeled, you know, so that you create that intrigue for those one on one matchups and everything feeds off of that. It's just it's just basic.
It's not anything that you need to create some sort of magic formula or you know, use a cliche, reinvent the wheel on what sells pay per views and what sells tickets. It's one on one matchups. It's an issue between two people, not four people. Not hey let's combine two issues into one match. That that that waters down
the whole concept. So I think that four way match on RAW I agree with I agree with Mike that it did take away from that build up and they thought, I'm sure never to be thought, Oh this is really gonna help the build up. We're gonna show how this match is gonna play out. We're gonna give a visual to the audience. I don't think so. I don't think it helped at all. So I think it probably flew under the radar just because it was probably fourth or
fith's most important thing on Raw. It it was a decent match, But Mike, I think you're right on with how that match didn't really help the build up. So anything else, Mike, any other question or.
Follow up, Well, let me quickly coming on that and then I'll have a question for you. But sure, it's not only that they have to conform to their pay per view gimmicks, but it's the double time and sometimes triple time of beginning match itself. I think it's one thing to have a hell in a found pay per view and paid a four pay per view, but there's this thing that we have to have a Spackdown match and the raw match to have to be that way, and I'm not so sure that we have to do.
I mean, there really weren't four big contenders to the SmackDown World title, and for that matter, of the Raw World title, but they had to conform to it, and now we're I wouldn't be shocked to get a title change on Sunday between one of the two big belts, and I don't think either one of those guys should be in a position to drop the belt on Sunday. I mean, I'm not saying they both have to go
into WrestleMania next year. Flag or an Seen is still the champions, but Swagger's gaining momentum and heading into Summer Slam, I think, and at Sena really doesn't need the belt, but he he's been known to have those one two month title Raine to drop him, and then we started to chase over. I wouldn't mind seeing Seena have a nice eight month run here. I really wouldn't, but that's just my opinion. And then I have a question since they have to conform again next month with the money
in the bank pay per view. Yeah, do you see anyway since we obviously got instead of just having chapter two in the NXD angle on Monday, we got to about chapter six, I think, do you see them rushing into it and somehow having the rookies in their own money in the bank kind of ladder match where the where some guy get the contract or the title chet stipulation.
I mean, I don't know how, but I just have an ink that they might be headed to have it some the NXD rookies and the Body in the bank pay per view next month and at the highpp for the day. You have a great weekend, guys, than if you could leave me on the phone.
I appreciate it, all right, Mike, we appreciate the call. Some really intriguing the points there for Mike, Brian. First of all, we'll talk about Cenn Swagger. Do they retain the titles for your prediction or and should they retain
the titles? And also, I mean the kind of Mike's idea from Money in the Bank made me think about perhaps they're gonna have uh, I guess the seven remaining NXC rookies from season one perhaps and the Money in the Bank manage where one of them gets a contract or maybe Wade Barren's reinstated since he won an XC and the other six sturn of Money in the Bank match. I don't know, that's maybe that's one way to advance
that storyline. Brian, what are your what's your take on those two topics of the title situation in next month's pay per view?
Yeah, well, Mike, you know, Mike bro have a lot of good points start. So thanks for the call again, Mike can call back. Do you look at Jack Schwager, This guy has a lot it could have a lot of credibility as a champion. You do his book correctly.
I think he needs to have a shot.
To take a run with this belt. And you know, you can make a star out of Jack Slager here if you're going to do it properly. But the company has not gotten behind him whatsoever. I mean, has how many matches has he won since he's been the champion? A very very few matches. Yeah, yeah, it's it's very few. And he needs to have a run with the belt here. He needs to win some matches and to beat some guys so that he is viewed as a credible champion.
And I think the longer title range will build interest. You know, you have a lot of quick title switches here recently, businesses pay for view wise is as low as it's been in the last several years. I think, you know, go back to where it was three four years ago when Sina had his run with the belt and let him have another one build up here to WrestleMania that he's still holding the belt and you know at some point you're gonna have a big money match
between Sina and the undertaker of Russelemania. You know, why not have seen it going there champion versus a street you know type of storyliners or something like along that line. So both of these guys need to have a longer title reign, especially Schlagger needs some credibility kind of going forward because he just hasn't been booked as a credible champion, you know. And you bring up a good point about the ladder match and what direction they're going to go.
It certainly seems like that's a possibility that they could go with all six of these the NXT rookies going into a ladder match for a contract. But I think it really defeats the storyline purpose that they're starting to build right now. These the NXT rookies have all come together to take on or invade WWE. Why would you throw them to fight against each other on pay per view in a ladder match for a contract. I think
it makes no sense whatsoever to do that. You're reversing course on a really a hot ankle that you've got and you don't want to drop it. If if you go with the season two look East, you know, you've got a lot of guys who are too inexperienced to be climbing ladders and putting on a quality pay per view event. You know, you could do something like that. But if that's the case, then why I have next on Tuesday nights and have a show when they're competing
for the contract. If all they're going to do is a month from now goal and have a ladder match on pay per view, it's it's just really no neither concept makes logical sense, and it doesn't.
But I can see them doing it because I just get this feeling that the NXT invasion angle is not going to be a long term deal. I think when it first debuted two Mondays ago, it looks like something they could stretch out over six, seven, eight weeks, even a couple of months, even maybe even six months, and really, you know, build something for the entire summer into the fall that would have some momentum going into that that's
fall period up against Monday Night Football. Now, after they kind of rush through a lot of content this Monday, I really get the sense that this is a short term angle and it's not something that WNB is prepared to or want to play out over a long period
of time. And we might get to a point where, you know, it kind of depends on how it plays out this Sunday on the pay per view, where you know, brn Hart might say in the storyline, Okay, I'm gonna give a contract to you know, I'll reinstate Wade Bart. You know, I'll give a contract to one guy if y'all agree to you know, not wreak havoc on the
show anymore. And the one guy who gets the contract is the one who wins the money in the pay match, and that might be the way they get to that point and kind of throw away what could have been a long term angle. I really, I just really get that sense that they're not going long term with this, which is really disappointing because that's how I could have helped business a lot, just to get raw, something really consistent and interesting and intriguing and different and new and fresh,
and then just a different concept for their show. Now it seems like it might just be another storyline, and that I think it would be a major wasted opportunity. It's just my sense of it right now, and that's unfortunate, but hopefully.
I'll be wrong on that.
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Past cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
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Let's continue on to the two one five area code two one five. Welcome to show, Please stitch yourn and where you're from?
Hey, James and Bryant's Eric in Philadelphia?
Hey, Eric, what's going on? Good? Have yard?
All right?
Thank it's good to be on.
I had a theory and a question for y'all.
I want to know, what do you think if they continue to carry NXT right, making that a brand and instead of doing money in the bank next year, he turned into some type of pay per view where the winner of it, you know, instead of getting the title shot, gets to go.
To Raw or smack Down.
That was a theory, like, you know, some way to.
You know, launch new stars on the different brand.
And the second one was what do.
You what do you think the Motor City machine Guns got to do to actually get the rub because they've been doing like incredible matches, especially like the exhibiting match between Alex Shelley and Christveen last year. You know, Jason was getting a rub right now. So I want to know what do you think has to for them to get detained.
Type of rub good questions. Derek Brian wants you to go and take those two first, and I'll add my comments.
Okay, I think Moner City machine Guns are incredibly talented. You know, they remind me of the Rock and Roll Express Midnight Express type of tag teams from back in the eighties that had all kinds of flashy, innovative moves that they did with each other onto their opponents, and it was you know, they're really a breath of fresh
air and they really could make themselves stand out. You know, t and A wants to stand out from what the WWE's presenting is make MotorCity machine Guns your focal point of your taking division because they stand out from anybody in TNA and from any team in WWE right now. So there's a really bright spot, I think, and they need to get behind them.
You know, maybe they need to have a.
Little bit more time in front of a microphone to build themselves up as stars.
And uh you know that.
I think there's there's some real money to be made with those guys if they would get behind them. The first part of your question about another brand, I think, you know, we've they've tried those brands, and right now, SmackDown is clearly number two brand to Raw, and it's gonna get even worse when they lose their network affiliation
and go to Sci Fi Network. To have a third brand is really going to get lost in the shuffle, and it's gonna be probably counterproductive for them to try and and build another brand because they're having a tough enough time right now building two brands to smack Down in a raw brand, Yeah, I don't see another brand being established.
It would be sixty. I think with Dodoby's TV situation kind of in a transition stage and they just you know, finished up the East W brand. I just don't know if they're if they're going to go that direction. I think they're going to try to focus more on just Raw and SmackDown and develop those new stars and NXT. But I don't really see a new brand or sort of you know, having sixteen rookies kind of on their
own show. But uh, the machine Guns, Dad, they should be they should be in line for a much more prominent TV slot. I think it just hasn't been the right timing. But I feel like TNA is going to start focusing on tag team wrestling with this sort of this tournament and in the pay per view next month, So I think the Gun's probably in the second half of this year, we'll have a better look on TV and just get more TV tonime. So that's ridiction to
go into the weekend. We want to thank everyone for listening. Brian Hoops and I will be staying on for the VIP after show and we will talk to everyone on Monday.
Thank you for using blog talk radios.
Goodbye.
All right, Brian, you and I are.
Gonna stick around for the VIP after show, and we want to thank everyone who has listened to today's live cast into the VIP show. Probably we had a couple other TNA topics and some other news and notes before getting into some nostalgia news, because you have some some items to talk about. Report Overall, we haven't really talked about TNA impact overall that much. From last night, I thought the show was a slight thumbs up. I didn't really like the ending of the show, those last two segments,
which were stinging Jeff Jarrett. I mean, I just it just feels so old and dated and just not irrelevance. I mean, Jared, this entire promotion is then built around making jareded look at Starr and trying to get him over. For eight years it has it worked, and now you have Jared and Stein kind of pretending like it's nineteen ninety nine again. And this was sort of an epidemic on this show, which is that a lot of this
show just feels kind of old and stale. You get the four Horsemen now with you know what they called fortune or I think go through my list of business magazines to arrive at U's fortunate in my head. So you've got that, You've got singing Jarrett, You've got Abyss with the heel turn. Not really a big stan of that. I just think they're trying to shove Abyss down the viewers' throats one way or another, either either as a babyface or now going back to me in a heel.
So I didn't like those aspects, but I still could have liked the show will slight thumbs up. But what was your overall impressure on the show and just sort of that that fortune gimmick that they try to create for some mid Carter's uh, you know, kind of playing off the four horsemen and just your overall pressure on the show.
Well, yeah, overall on the show, I think it's okay. You know, it's a it's an improvement over what we've seen over the last couple of weeks. It's clearly better than Raw. It's it's a decent show. It's it's something you can watch and not be totally embarrassed about watching, like like I was watching Raw on Monday night. So it's not terrible. You know, there's there's some things that are good and some bad and made you know, mentioned a lot of that. A couple things that really bothered me.
Last week.
We had a match with Matt Morgan in a tag team match where he was beaten up by Hernandez and then the band came out and pinned him. And logically, why on the world would a referee allow somebody that's strapped to a backboard to have a match, or why would you even allow a match to start? I mean, if we're trying to make this into a realistic situation, wouldn't the rest stop the match because he wasn't able to defend himself. I mean, he's doing that Morgan strapped
to a blackboard. He shouldn't. There's no way they should have a match. Well, then this week you have the Band being stripped of the titles because Scott Hall was fired. But then a couple of weeks ago we have the old free bird rules where any one of the three guys could defend the belts. So why can't Eric Young and Kevin Nash just defend the belts if Scott Hall has been fired? So you know, there's a lot of logic holes here still that need to be filled. But
I mean the show is progressing and doing better. I like the idea of trying to elevate Kazarian and Beer Money and aj Styles and Desmond Wolf into a faction that there's really no factions in wrestling right now, and that's something that I've always enjoyed, you know, whether it be you know, the Dangerous Alliance back in the nineties, or DX or the NW, you or whatever faction seems to always span one or two guys out of that
group into a main event type level star. If they can let Rick Slayer kind of stand in the background like JJ Dillon type with the Four Horsemen and not be the focal point, which clearly he's going to be the next couple weeks when they build the pay per view match. But after that, if they can get you know, AJ Styles or Wolf or somebody to be the leader, I think it's a great move and I would certainly get behind, you know, a faction like that.
And those logic holes are and I think the other big one was the lack of consequences to actions. You have Abyss destroying Uh, you know Jeff Bardy and mister Anderson the Last Night Show at the end, you know, he puts Anderson through glass, injuries another wrestler in the storyline and the context of the storyline, he injured Anderson, and he throws Jeff Hardy off of a stage through a table, and you know he's gonna be rewarded, Uh,
look at it that way. He's gonna be rewarded with a title shot on next week's Impact when they announce a four way match of the next pay per view, so there's no consequences to action, and there's these gaping logic holes. Like you said, Brian, they have the freebird role for the tag title situation.
Yeah, one of them is dropped and they lose the belts.
Well, that doesn't make any sense. It should these things where if they sat down and thought about it and they didn't try to rush through storylines and they kind of just wrote wrote it down, looked over it and thought, no, wait a second, it doesn't make sense, I think the show would seem the product overall, WOUL seemed much more credible, and I think they would repaint an audience.
I think a lot of times that.
Audience just sits there and probably says, oh my gosh, this is just silly. I can't even take this seriously. I just want to take this show seriously and feel wrapped up in the moment. And they create these sort of things. I think it's the same that Devin de Bean does with these A team skits that are unnecessary and and w B tries to create it because they
want to look mainstream and hip, and they're entertainment. They're not wrestling, they're relevant and pop culture they're not part of the wrestling industry, and I think it just takes away from the overall experience of watching a wrestling show, and you know it does just sit down and think about it and look at it and look at it and say, no, wait a second, this isn't gonna work. This doesn't work, this doesn't make sense. And too often T and A has gone with what doesn't make any
sense at all. And I think it's hurt their product just so much over time. It's it's hurt their building to building an audience.
Yeah, I think it's hurt wrestling in general.
You know that.
I think my friends that I have, or you know, we're at the gym working out, and if we put UFC on one of the TVs, why everybody's watching it, and everybody's into it, and it's really cool. Even if wrestling comes on, you know, you usually hear your comments about it something being stupid or something being fake, and it just you know that if they could get to a point where wrestling was cool again, but you're not going to be doing that by doing some of these things,
like you know, you and I just talked about. You know, a guy is strapped to a backboard and obviously it's medically hurt. But the rep starts to match and we have a match. You know what if what if they decided to drop the elbows on him from the top rope or Kevin Nashall and the power bombing instead of just pananty that. You know, it's just stuff like that just really makes a hut.
Sling fan sometimes, right, And there will always be those things. Wrestling will always have that stigma because it's predetermined.
And you know, oh, you have to be an idiot if you take.
This seriously or if you buy in and suspend disbelief.
You know it's not real, right, you.
Know, so that, but you don't have to run completely the opposite direction and try to create these dramas and these these sort of action sequences to try to not be wrestling. You can still embrace wrestling in an incredible way and present it an incredible fashion, then get people to spend money when they're wrapped up and what's happening, and they're able to suspend disbelief without without feeling like you're trying to insult them or make them look stupid
for watching the show. And and I think wwe be and TNA make that mistake all the time, trying to be something that they don't want to be, and they don't want to be wrestling, you know.
So Yeah, anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown or aw Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts on the show or a topic you want us to address or a question for us. Wadekellor Podcast at pw torch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. If there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you want us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wade
Keller Podcast at pw torch dot com. We invite that interaction, let us know what you think of what we're saying, and let us know what you want us to talk about and ask us specific questions. Wadekeller Podcast at pw torch dot com.
Huh, I also was going to bring up I was going to bring up we'll talk a little bit a lot about those sort of mainstream interviews that WWE restors have been talking about. Another topic that was kind of in the news on Wednesday was Batista and uh wait and Jason Palell talked a little bit about this yesterday
on the live cast. What's what's your take on Batista sort of teasing that maybe he's interested in MMA and and maybe there's rumors of him possibly being offered a deal by Strikeforce, so maybe get a couple of fights. Forty one years old, history of injuries, no real formal training in the sport. I mean, he's not gonna get by in just his size. You know, that's just not gonna work. What's your take on the percentage of Batista ever setting foot in an m and A ring for an official fight.
I think it's less than Kurd Angle doing that. You know, you could see Kurt Angle doing it because he's got the wrestling background, he's got that wrestler's mentality. Well, you have to be just so mentally tough to make it in MMA. But with Batista, with his his mentality is like you said, his injured, his age, the fact that he's never wrestled on a competitive level like you have to be to be competitive in MMA, I think it's very very doubtful he'll ever step foot inside a cage.
And if it is, I think it's you know, it's gonna be more of an attraction type of an event. You know, you do have to look at some standpoint. Crucial Walker forty eight years old. He didn't have any wrestling background, but was in tremendous shape, trained and ended up fighting at least one time, and maybe he will again for Strikeforce. It's not impossible that they'll offer Batista a deal because you know, a name like his would arouse a lot of curiosity, and that's what Strikeforce is
looking for, is that curiosity factor. You know, they've let the Canseco do a match and he has probably less business than than Batista in the ring, But you'll never I don't think you'll see Batista at the level of a UFC event, where you have to be much better of a fighter than what the what Strike Force is willing to put on for a show. So I could see him him possibly doing it. And apparently he's lost a lot of weight since he's left w W and and uh, you know, hate to say say this, but they.
Do drug testing in m m A.
So yeah, when I when I heard about that, I believe they melts A reported that on the rest of observer, I thought, oh, oh, I guess you know, you leave WW and uh, you kind of you drop weight because you're trying to get into acting and you're not really bulking up, and maybe you're not trying to find a way around the wellness policy. I'm not saying he was.
You know, we don't have any proofs. I'm just saying that there are ways around that wellness policy as uh during the bid walk coverage that had I believe someone equated it to you know, Swiss cheese with poles just all over that policy.
So very my favorite, my favorite line as a guy who says life never failed a test. Well, yeah, that that may be true. You've never failed, but have you ever taken one?
You know?
Or or what type of tests have you have? You Bacon heres, There's there's a big difference on how they phrase their answers to that question.
That's Scott Steiner's favorite line. When anybody ever brings it up, he says, well, I've never failed a test, go for it. Never, I've never been put in jail.
But it doesn't mean I haven't broken you know, I haven't been seating or broken law either.
So right, yeah, yeah, but let's wrap up with I guess just a final word on the pay per view on Sunday. Do you recommend it as a skippable? Is there enough intrigue with the NXT deals maybe warrens a buy or maybe gathering a group of guys together or gals and supporting that that cost what what's your take on whether it's a kind of what kind of month is it in terms of whether forty four dollars is worth the price of admission?
You know, I think there's probably gonna be a lot of people that are gonna skip this paper view because there isn't that emotional attachment that that's needed to uh, you know, to buy it. I think if you can get together with a group of friends and you want to hang out with them, there's no UFC event that's gonna draw that type of an event or crowd away. So there will be some people that will do that type of purchasing and get together, you know, you know,
it'll be a lot of fun. I think to do that. But I think for the average viewer who's going to watch it in their house, they're probably gonna pass on this one just there's just not a real intriguing matchup or emotional emotional investment in this uh in this event, So I think the Bier eight won't be very because it's this time around.
I agree.
I think it's one of those pay per views where you can skip it and you can read about what happened, and then you can see maybe highlights on Raw the next night, and you probably won't feel like you missed out. I mean borrowing a major angle. I mean that they've been hyping it as anything could happen, So unless there is something historic that happens that you're gonna feel bad that you didn't get to see. I really don't think this paper B lineup is strong enough for war to buy.
I think it's a I'll read about it online and I'll see highlights on Raw the next night, but I really don't think it's worth spending forty five dollars on. That's kind of the vibe I gets this month, which seems to be happening all too much lately since wrestle Mania. They've had three pay per views since WrestleMania, counting on Sunday, and I think all three of them have kind of been well. It's a good decent maybe maybe a strong lineup,
but is there really worth ordering and watching? Maybe not so, and I don't think there's anything can happen for a concept is helping that at all. I think it's reinforcing that these are kind of skippable pay per views because there isn't that real intriguing one on one matchup that is since centered around an issue that's been building for months and months or has been really hot on TV, and it just isn't that matchup this month.
And yeah, you can get together with your friends and kick in five bucks for the pay per view, you'll probably do it. And if you've got to sit it home by yourself and a lot tip through forty five, you'll probably will skip it.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Let's wrap up on some Nostalgia news and notes. Grizzly Smith was in the news.
He died.
I guess it was last week. I guess it's been a week since then, and you covered him on your on the Nostalgia Podcast and George Shire this week also you had some news and notes on the Waterloo Hall of Fame with that roundtable panel. So Brian, go ahead and go ahead and touch on those topics on Grizzly Smith and that roundtable.
Yeah, we talked about this on the Nostalgia Podcast this week. So if fams want to go back in and listen to more of what George and I talked about Grizzly Smith, you certainly welcome to. In the VIP session, we touched on him real briefly. His career spanned mostly the sixties and seventies. He you know, is known as one half of the Kentuckians, kind of a hillbilly type gimmick. He
was built as being six' ten three point. Fifty george had seen him down wrestling down In oklahoma and he thought maybe he was a six, five six to six type of. Guy and you, know of course we're always exaggerating wrestling a little bit twenty thirty pounds on the, weight several inches in, heights and so his best known as a part of the tag, team had a lot of interaction with The assassins and drew some money for about a decade of wrestling Against Jody hamilton as one
part of The. Assassins of, course he is the father Of Jake roberts and also the father to two other wrestlers not quite as well known As Jake, roberts by the name Of Sam houston And rock And, robins so, yeah fans may remember.
Him and.
As far as the, water The hall Of fame did quite a bit of talking with some guys this. Year i'm in charge of getting the roundtable lined. Up we got to finalize this. Week we've Got Tom, andrews who wrestled as The claw in a lot of. Areas he also wrestled as The intern under a, mask and so
he's gonna be on the. Panel baron Von rafski is going to be on the panel as, Well so we'll have The claw and The Claw master on the, panel and we'll also Have Terry, Funk So i'll be doing the moderating of the, panel and and we'll have three guys who really worked a lot of the, territories uh you, know From Saint louis And Central states and THE, awa and of course The funks owned The Amarillo territory In, texas And terry worked, everywhere and guys worked In canada And.
Japan so all these guys are gonna be great experts to talk about our our topic of restling. Territory so that's gonna be a fun event coming up in a couple of, weeks and that will be made into a COMMEMORATIVE.
Dvd i've been finalizing that this week as, well and also want to let our coach listeners know THAT i talked With Scott Slash, norton who a lot of fans may remember from A vicious And delicious tag, team was About, bagwell part of THE nWo and he is going to be a guest next week with me on The Nostalgia podcast Toward george is taking a week off of vacation, time So slash is going to take his spot and we're going to talk about his career next.
Week very, nice that's a that's a good. Get SO i know he's, well he's been In. JAPAN i MEAN i follow him On twitter AND i know he kind of tweets about being In japan all the. TIME i think he was In he might have been In mexico a couple of weeks ago or something Of Giant. Bernard but, yeah that should be a very interesting conversation With. Norton do you know what kind of topics y'all got to be covering or kind of a career, span kind of
recap in his entire, career recent. Events what's gonna gonna be the topic or the.
Conversation, YEAH i had emailed being today some topics of ideas that we're gonna talk, about and mostly gonna be about his career and, uh you, know things that he saw backstage and his. Accomplishments AND i would actually, uh Any torch listeners out there that have a question For, scott you can email me And i'll be glad to Ask scott anything. Specifically Torch nostalgia at gmail dot com would be my email, address and, yeah it's just gonna
be a mainly focused on his. Career and he originally From, minneapolis is now living in uh In, Tennessee nashville area with to be with his father who's been diagnosed with. Cancer so he's out living out there with him and his wife now.
Very. Good so that's a nice scoop to to close the show.
On so that will be.
Up uh do you know what you're doing the interview where you're gonna have the interview up for the FOR vip of.
Members, Well i'm gonna do it tomorrow or no, excuse you want to do it On monday With scott because he is then traveling back To. Minneapolis so that was really about the only time it would work Now george is gonna be here next, week so we'll probably archive that podcast until the twenty, EIGHTH i, believe BECAUSE i don't have another guest for that. Week So scott will be interviewed next week and then put on The torch THE ip section a week after that most.
Likely very, good very, Good so a good good note to clothes On, brian and thanks again for joining me today and we'll definitely hear from you next. Week and of course everyone in The TORCH vip audio section can listen To brian's interview With Scott norton in a couple of, weeks and we'll have more details on The hall Of fame In, Waterloo iowa And brian's involvement in that roundtable
in the coming weeks before. That So, brian thanks again for, costing and we want to thank everyone for listening and supporting The TORCH Vip audio. Section and until next. Time this Is Swortch assistant Editor James. Caldwell sign it.
Off are you a nostalgic wrestling? Fan do you want to hear about shows you haven't seen in, ten, twenty maybe even thirty? Years, WELL i have the show for. You i'm pwtorch Dot com Contributor Frank pettyanni and Since december of twenty, Twenty i've Hosted Pro Wrestling then And now together with a rotating chair of co. Hosts we go back and review old shows from top to, bottom talk about where the wrestlers were at the time and
compare what's taking place now to what took. Place then you can hear this along with other shows as part of YOUR Pw TORTCH vip membership with exclusive podcasts just for members compatible with The Apple podcast. App visit pwtorch dot, com Slash go vip for details and sign up form.
Radio you're listening to THE Pw towards live.
CAST i AM pw Torchs assistant Editor James caldwell hosting today And i'm joined By. Torch call him Is Greg. Parks, greg how are you doing on a Fine monday?
Night i'm doing one Of james AND i just want to SAY i want to come out and say this right out the. BAT i know there's a lot of controversy with last night's post paper view round table Between wade And bruce that is currently being hashed out on THE vip. Forums ON pw torch dot. COM i just want to, SAY i don't want our show to be that contentions, today contentious today. GAMES i think we can get along side for one hour before how about.
That, yeah we're not doing a, chat so we're not gonna yell at each other via keystrokes and words and phrases on a. Keyboard so we're gonna try to keep it. CIVIL i think we can both agree to. That to, say, So i'm on. More i'm more if if you're not A TOWARDS vip member and you want to know about this contentious post pay per view roundtable Between Bruce mitcheul And Wade keller along With pat, McNeil that is available For TOWARDS vip members and p TO b towards dot.
Com Slash GO vip is your info for finding out how to subscribe to A vip membership to access last night's post pay per view. Roundtable, So, greg you AND i are also gonna be talking about the pay per view for the listeners coming up with about fifty nine minutes and so raw at the top of the hour at nine O'clock, eastern what was what was your overall
thought on that pay per view last? Night did you think it was a step in the right, direction a step, back or just sort of another pay per view on the calendar FOR.
WWE i found this to.
Be more of a holding pattern type pay per. View you, know there wasn't a. Lot it really felt like the focus WAS i was on the mid. Card there's a lot of mid card stuff. Happening there are only five, matches and ounce ahead of time cart did not look that's strong going. In so if you ordered the event with that, feeling you may have been pleasantly. SURPRISED i,
mean there were some good. Matches The SmackDown Four way was was good bourg In, jericho probably arguably the best match of the, night and of course they're there all Four way was also, another, uh pretty decent. Match you had some disappointments on the, shelf for, sure one of them being our troopers of the miss another one being the involvement of THE nxt. CREW i think there's you could consider that a, disappointment being that you know they they did have a hand in the Ww championship, match
specifically the result of. It but if you were looking at this event for really the coming out party for THE nxc season, one rookies as far as really getting put over uh more similarly to their first attack On raw two weeks, ago three weeks ago, now but then you were probably disappointed they didn't appear in the show
until that main. Event Brett hard wasn't. There so the much hyped segment On raw last week Where Waite barrett in THE Nxt season one crew demanded an answer From brett hardabout ONCE i think get contracts This sunday didn't. Happen SO i don't know if they're gonna continue that On raw tonight or what the deal is with, that BUT i guess we'll have to tune in and find.
Out, YEAH i imagine the follow up will BE i imagine there will be decent follow up tonight ON. RAW i think they're gonna save a lot of the developments for tonight's show as opposed to having a lot of it on last night's, show the mentality, being, well not a whole lot of people are watching the pay per view compared to our OUR tv, show so we'll say more of the storyline For raw the next. Night BUT i, really, really really really disagree with the booking of that main.
Event any taking the belt Off. SCENA i, mean if you're gonna think the belt Off swagger and put On Raymond, serial at least one of your top champions needs a, lengthy decent title. Run they have hot shotted so many title changes in twenty, ten even going back to last. Year they needed someone just to have some stability at the top of the card in terms of being a long term. CHAMPION i really disagreed with taking the belt off Both swagger And sena on the same night and
not even in a clean. FINISH i, Mean caine did a run in during the during The world title, match and he have THE nxt rookies did their run in and seam that's kind of you, know sneaks in the back door Of pennasina to get the ww. TITLE i just disagree with that, book and especially out of pay per view people paying forty five. Dollars i'm going to at least deliver one clean, finish even one of your two marquee.
Matchups and you know the Fun the funny thing about that is that the announcers spend so much time hyping up that the champion only had a twenty five percent chance every TEAMING i, mean they hyped it up on every show for the nast two or three weeks leading up to the to the actual pay per, view and In wweland that easily is signaled to the viewer that at least one of these champions is going to, retain you,
know because the announcers are never. Right just look at you, know when they're calling a cover and, oh he's got him, here this is, it and then to kick out of. Course so it's like When homer wrote on and paying them The, simpsons to the opposite of What bart tells.
You you wanted, to right on your, hand to the opposite or think the opposite of what the announcers, say and so you're always so you almost came into the event expecting champions to, retain and you're right that that would have been especially For, swagger that would have been
the right move And, sina but for different. Reasons, sina because that Ww, championships like you, said been hotshotted so many times and been around the wate of so many different competitors the last few months that it really needs to stay on someone for several. Months i'm tucking six. Months For, swagger it's more of you, know he's done well with the. Title he's lost a lot OF tv matches and that belt was the THING hm. Credibility now
where does he go from? HERE i think it's a nice reward For Ring mysterio for BASICALLY wwe calling him back from a vacation they promised him because of The undertaker's. Injuries SO i GUESS i suppose it's a nice gesture. There the thing to remember when we're talking about this and the reason for all the hotshots booking and the titles changing hands so constantly is because things changed IN wwe as far as, creative from probably hour to, hour
let alone day to. Day And vince McMann is well known for changing his mind several, times getting hot and cold on a rest part at a moment's notice with little or no. Reason so that could be one of the explanations for why the title changes hands so. Often is The evince just you, know ww is his. Plaything he's not satisfied with with what's going on for whatever reason that he comes up within his, head so he wants to change the belt and keep things, interesting.
Right and they also that jagline about you, know this is the night where anything could, happen and they felt the need to peraps fulfill that advertising that they hammered home on media interviews and ON. TV i JUST i just really disagree with A burrow business. PERSPECTIVE i, mean it really could have had a really nice pay per view main event, two, three four months down the road If seena had kept that belt or Even, swagger uh you, know for six seven months like you, Said, greg and
then had this strong one on one. Matchup now you're gonna have to go back to just resetting instead of resetting both of your title. PICTURES i, Mean swagger's gonna get his. Rematch scene's gonna get his. Rematch we're not sure if they're gonna save it from money to, bank maybe give it away ON. Tv BUT i, mean just some consistency at the top of the. Card they need
that it for. BUSINESS i, mean they don't have a lot of, stars they don't have a a dearth of star power where they can just you, know hotshot the belts around and depend on the stars and out. Business they need a strong quest a strong, champion some you, know just a strong storyline that brings some stability to the top of the. Card THE nxt deal is fine line for great in some intrig FOR. Tv you, know you get seeing it being chased by seven young rookie.
Upstars so that's a that's a good storyline FOR tv, Purposes BUT i still think you need a strong, champion and and THEN i don't see seam as being the guy that keep the belts on for a. WHILE i don't See ray being the guy that keep the belts on for a. WHILE i, mean you cover Smack down Every friday, Night, rag what do you make of where they're gonna go With ray's? Champion do you where do you See smudger getting his? Rematch do you see a big show staying in that? Picture where to see him
punk go from? HERE i mean they seem to set up a cane and see him punk viewed yet. Again but once you're taking the direction of Smack, dinner where they're going from?
Here, yeah based on the hype going into this four way match this Past, sunday it almost really not Like punk And mysterios feud once. Settled Uh so you know my pick would be for my own reasons and match quality being probably very high on the, list punk and the feuding over the. Belt, however you know you don't Want swagger to be too far out of the, picture because LIKE i, said he's earned it with his performance on THE mic and and The rain is, champion so
you kind of want to stick him. CLOSE i suppose this give The big show could. Continue but then you brought up a good point With kine attacking to see Him punk in The Trade Edge society last night at the end of the, match so that would seem to Signal kine And punk getting together and having some sort of feud, again like you, said and you know the last, time the last time they got together in the, ring and we saw the result with THE, gps so THAT i don't Think punk has ever performed a while On,
kane AND i don't think it's Completely punk's. FALL i say, that and you know obvious reasons. Why it's just it doesn't, Work so you, KNOW i don't really. KNOW i don't know if that attack was more residual from what happened On SmackDown With punk And Luke gallo dressing up as The undertaker and basically just creating his memory In kane's. MIND i don't know if that was what it was, from or if this is really something that's leading Into cain believing and having good reason to think That punk
was the one who Put undertaker on the. SHOP i anticipated This friday and thanks getting stringed out a bit with all three of those.
Fews really.
And one more note before we move on to live callers From, SmackDown is Like Kobe Kingston drew McIntire, match the opening match of the pay per view too long Involved Matt hardy involved when that storyline seemed to catch off with the live crowd laughs side the pay per, view they seem to be pretty hot for the entire story, along you, know fainning the three, Count Matt hardy with the run In kobe retaining the crowd seemed to be pretty in tune with that, story which was a good.
SIGN i, mean Obviously drew back guitar of the. Storyline his his OUs is that he was screwed by a conspiracy and that sort of. Thing that's the. Storyline where do you see that storyline?
Going is it?
Over is it?
Continuing does macantar regained the? Belt do you think where's nothing? Going?
OH i have to believe it leads Into.
Matt Hardy drew McIntyre. FEUD i don't know how, soon but you, know that's two losses in a row now for McIntire Against kingston and consecutive pay per, Views so you, know it would be difficult even with the clouts behind him Of vince, McMahon it'd be difficult for the fans to, really you, know stomach another month of McIntyre chasing the entertainmental title when he's lost two times in a. Row, yeah the crowd was hot for that was. Interesting even
more than the crowd being. Hot was the crowd obviously A Long island crowd Was he'll heavy last. Night they were cheering for The heels all night, long pretty. MUCH i mean they were cheering for the minutes they were cheering For. Jericho they were arguably Anti, sena so to see, them, yeah AND i don't think they WERE i don't think they were really Behind kingston. Either BUT i thought the pop That Teddy long got uh for for his role in the story and in the match was pretty was pretty.
Good you, know you don't usually see that for somebody who's been as it's been as vanilla As Teddy long has been written to be in the last however many. Years he's Been Gimo SmackDown and it als theemmed from
The Friday. NIGHT i, mean he got great heat on the Show friday night when McIntyre was belittling him in there quote unquote, Match SO i seed to hear you over the pay per view last, night which was nice to see because THEN i think really added to the angle in the end of the, match right it would.
Have it wouldn't have been good if there was no pops for For teddy long stainding that three. KID i, mean that was a big, moment and that was a big make or break moment the entire. Storyline so that was a really good sign for that storyline that there was such a big pop for that. MOMENT i ALMOST
i credited to the writing of that. Storyline and ALSO i think through McIntyre's finally starting to get over as a. HEEL i mean there WAS i remember last MONTH'S pa per, view he came up for that match With kobe and there was no reaction at. ALL i, mean his music hit it was dead that still starts with me from
last MONTH'S pa per. VIEW i think now he's finally they finally have found a way to get him over as a heel without it seeming like they're shoving him down singing, Throats but would you agree with that after what we saw last.
Night, well the REASON i guess for fans to feel they're not shoving McIntire down their throats anymore is that he's doing a lot of losing and he's coming out on the losing end of a lot of a lot of segments That Matt. HARDY i, mean there are segments where he got beat up By Matt hardy And Coach keith in the same. Segment so you, know that may be one of the reasons that he's, been you, know more.
Accepted he's getting the pay per view opportunities and then opportunities ON tv to have longer matches to really portray his character in the, rain not just on the, mic WHICH i think can go a long way to getting over with the fans even at the.
Heel you, Know.
I've never really had a big problem with, him even if find his. DEBUT i Know wade has been critical of McIntyre at, times But i've Always i've been a, fan and you know I've but then, AGAIN i THINK i may be partial to him more for his theme music than anything, else WHICH i think is the best in the business right, now AND i really ENJOY i
really enjoy bringing that. Up so you, know that may skew my view in favor of him take up the theme music and Maybe i'm looking at a different, Guy but, YEAH i don't really have a big problem with McIntyre and the ring around THE. MIC i think he's done a very good. Job AND i know there's, been you, know talks of, management him having heat with management for you, know his his entering work not improving and and just his attitude. Backstage BUT i don't find his er work
full on average or anything like. That but you, know for a guy in his, POSITION i guess they want.
To see, more and that's that's completely.
Understandable you don't have to wait for the Way Keller Pro wrestling post show to find out WHAT i thought Of Monday Night raw And. SmackDown each, week you can check out my reports that are updated live Throughout raw And SmackDown at pwtorch dot. Com my written report will tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed the, show and it will also analyze key segments and give my random thoughts quips on What i'm watching as it. Airs so check it out Every monday night And tuesday
night at pewtorch dot. Com that also applies to. WWEPAYPREVIEWS i cover those live at pw torch dot com with a detailed written report with star, ratings and of course you can find OTHER tv reports from other contributors to pw torch such as NXT, Roh Impact, wrestling and. More check it out pwtorch dot com your first stop FOR tv and pay per view written.
REPORTS i thought it really improved last.
NIGHT i saw and more Aggressive drew McIntyre during that during the. Match even before that that story developed at the ref bump And Teddy lung's interference or intervention, WHATEVER i saw a more aggressive McIntyre in the, ring AND i thought that was a very good step in the
right direction for. HIM i thought he really he really presented himself like he was trying to win a fight and not just sort of this exhibition of everyone's sort of the way the way weve puts it is everybody's here to watch me and do WHAT i, do And i'm just going to act like What i'm doing is the most important thing in the entire world right. NOW i thought it was a more aggressive attack and more aggressive in ring style and ma gets are more fitting
of his. CHARACTERS i thought that was worth noting from last night's pay per, view and they kind of set up the angle at the end of at the end of that, match so it's an endorsement for McIntyre to start the. Show so that's always a good. THING i guess that's For. Greg, oh, YEAH i like.
McIntyre i guess it's a good. Thing if you're listening and You drew McIntyre and you're hearing, THIS i guess it's a good. Thing BUT i don't really know if it matters to some of the fans who already made up the decision on.
Him but, right and we want everyone to join in if you're listening live and give us a call with your thoughts ON. Wwtna of, Course ring Of honor had their pay per view On saturday with THE Uh standout match your Contender Tyler Black David richards if you want to talk about that as. Well the number to call is six, four, six seven to, one nine eight two. Eight we will be here for another forty five minutes before raw kicks. Off at the top of the. Hour let's go to our first caller of the day from
the sixty five to one area code sixty five. One welcome to the. Show please take you name and where you're.
From, hey, guys this is, Conference Say, Paul Hey?
Tom what's going?
On?
Uh not too?
Much couple of pots for you. Guys one have you guys About? RAY i guess this is only a second huddle run.
In the w W. E, Greg what's what's your take On? Ray we're talked a little bit about, it But Todd warren Tump, on is this the right move for him at this stage of his career more than just sort of a reward for sticking? Around? Uh when When undertaker went? Down what's your take On ray as champion and and just how that affects The SmackDown? Brand, well if.
You're following ON tv and watching, it this this title range seemed to come out of.
Nowhere.
Uh you know he got the PIN i believe On friday? Night uh in The Tag Team maine.
Event.
Uh and we kind of joked in our check posted on pwe touch dot Com james that that pretty much rolled Out ray of Winning. Sunday so for for him to get to, win, yeah so for him to get to win in the tag match the pay and then at tag match On, friday and then when On sunday really tells me that this was probably a last minute moved to put the decision to put the belt on On mysterio and the fact that a couple with, that
the fact that it hasn't really been. PUSHED i mean he's been he's been pushing the main eventor on Smack on, obviously but he certainly hasn't really been pushed lately as a title. Contender so you, know this is a surprise from a lot of different. Angles uh you, know why they put the belt on him and not Say Sam punk Or Big show is debatable why he decided the title Off Jack. Schwegger you, know we may never, know
but uh, yeah his Second world title. Reign his first one didn't go that, well to be, honest you, know losing often in non title matches ON. Tv they put in in a no win. Position really with a guy Like Great. Khalie Uh so HOPEFULLY i don't see this as a long term, thing, certainly WHICH i suppose that they like the ww changes with the. Belts you can say that about anybody, winning BUT i really think That this is more of a transition to someone, else a good will. Gesture you, know he he's the guy w
can count. On he's got the fans behind, him he's got the kids behind, him he's got the, merchandising so it certainly doesn't hurt them putting the belt on The serea would just come at an odd time and was quite.
Surprising, tom did you have another question you wanted to ask or a follow up On?
Ray, well it was another, question you, know with THE wwe always having these no gimmick pay per. VIEWS i was looking online earlier today at some of the you, know the specialty matches they have on their. Website why do they always pick the crappiest gimmicks for their pay per? VIEWS i mean there's some looking at some like A pumanji prison type. MATCH i, mean for like The hell in The cell pay per. View couldn't they do like One hell in The, cell One pumanji prison or however
you pronounce the type? Thing you, know have some of the more entertaining that choose one of these.
Things, DUDE i don't know if we want to see it In joppy prison Match dragon The wild who was in was that colleague and, uh What lashley was? IT i can't remember it Was lashley or getting the elevated. Enzymes and that's that. Point that was a couple of years. AGO i Think, tom to answer your, QUESTION i think that they look in as how can we best present a pay per view concept where it seems like the champion or champions are in jeopardy and elimination, chamber you've
got five other people going after that. Title you have that this pay per, view you had three other challengers going for the title on each of the four way. Matches we don't know what they're gonna do with the money in the bank, yet BUT i think when they look at that elimination chamber in the four, ways they're trying to create the situation where you're paying money almost
with the guarantee of a major title changing. Hands and one thing they have done is they've not given Away world or w title matches on T tv very, often but they have changed the title very often on pay per. View but it doesn't help. BUSINESS i think when you have all the concept, matches it just doesn't a very organic and building to something where they're you, know in this, case there were three rightful uh, content three contenders with rightful claims to the. Title it was, just, well let's
just stick three guys in the match as. Contenders AND i think that's what they're trying to do is have this artificial idea of the champion or champions are in jeopardy and you're gonna pay money to see a title. Change that's almost with they're, Guaranteeing, Gregory do you want to add more fonts or more commentary on? That?
Yeah for FOR i think The punchai prison match is a bad example because it's one basically that was quote unquote created for The Great. Klie so how do you how do you you know makes sense in the storyline terms Of John cena taking on uh you, know someone must He randy or in A punjavi prison. Match, geez
that'll be a free sight right. There the thing, is you, know obviously this is this was created especially games match for The Great, callie and he would need a storyline reason for it to come into play during duringam match with two guys who aren't The Great collie, ideally Uh, so and that's you, know that's what we've talked about with these giving pay per, views is you end up having matches with a stipulation that at that point in
the feud does not. Fit and that's the problem that would be a problem, with you, know put jav prison. Match you, know if it's the first month of A Randy Orton hedge feud and you got them in A punjab prison, match it's almost, like where do you go from? There, uh it's just you're trying to shoehorn the pay per view concept into the feud and it just doesn't make
any sense from a storyline. Standpoint Uh, So, yeah there are more interesting stipulations out there that they could, use BUT i would hope the ww would try to keep that to a minimum and try to keep it to stimulations that makes sense even a little at that point in the, feud.
Right just in the context of the, feud where it would seem to naturally flow into whatever given concept match
they have on this month's. PAPER i, mean up, next there's money To, bank AND i DON'T i don't have an, idea and they didn't really give us a clear idea on who's going to be in that in those matches or match or one match to, match three Matches money The, BANK i don't know it seems like it might be a standard pay per view plus maybe one money in the bank, match And i'm sure maybe start to hint at that on Tonight's. Raw But, GREG i, mean what do you do with that? Concept do you put multiple
money to bank matches on next month's pay per? View do you do just one and have standard matches throwing out the rest of the pay per, view.
Or what do you do with?
That that's an interesting.
Question i'm not really. SURE i would assume that you. Know my thought Right, Yeah my thought right now is maybe and who, knows w w we might not have an. Idea uh my thought right now is to have you, know one on one.
Matches for the.
Singles, title the world title on THE wwe, title and then perhaps for each brand having money in the bank match featuring in carters from that, Brand let's say, five so you would have end up having two money in the bank. Matches Unlost scott, forbid they did want for the, women but uh, yeah which is which is. Frightening but, YEAH i think right now that would be the way to. Go so each brand has its own money in the bank,
winner and can uh really use that as a? Storyline weaves throughout the, shows because if you've got a guy who if you only do one money in the bank match and you have a guy on The raw brand who ends up winning, it, uh you know that's that's kind of taking away From SmackDown because he's as far AS i don't, know you still be A row brand wrestler and wouldn't be able to you, know jump. Shows of, COURSE wwe please loose with those roles all the time, Anyway SO i think one for each brand would be
what would make sense at this stage in the. Game and you, know they could come out tonight and announce said they don't have to announce the stipulations or the basic concept of the pay per view immediately in order to get the ball rolling on getting things started for to hype the pay per view because it's in less than a. MONTH i believe the eighteenth is the.
Right they've got twenty, one twenty, Eight they've GOT i guess four episodes Of raw to hype, it so they COULD i mean they have a little bit of wiggle, room but, yeah they need to at least explain what's at stay just to kind of get that idea of
planting a viewers'. MINDS i imagine tonight will be more about the fallout and the next to follow up from last side's pay per, view but they at least kind of explain or hint at the concept of the next pay per, view especially because it's again another new pay per view and the money they can sell. Itself but it's more of a nice, successory uh to to you, Know. WrestleMania it's not it's not the entire dress to use some sort of weird fashion. Analogy it's more of a nice.
Accessory and now you're asking people to pay basically the price of address for some. EARRINGS i don't know WHERE i came up with, that maye BECAUSE i was AT Jc penny this, weekend.
But JUST i don't.
Know that's that's what the, analogy and it. Works it works for.
ME i got what you're. Saying, yeah it kind of makes.
Sense in my. Head SO i don't know anybody else But tom and either a question or follow up on on the pay per view.
Concepts just one follow up and then you can put me on hold And i'll listen if they're going to do things like The Fatal, foe where if they decide to do a triple threat pay per, View why not then make them elimination style where the champion does in fact have to at some point get tend to lose.
His, YEAH i would prefer, That. TOM i, MEAN i think that's just to make it seem more than just a ridiculous concept of you know the. CHAMP i, mean they they kind of straight away from that criticism because they had the actually the champs were. Pinned was was slacker Penn greg? Was wasn't he penned in The world title? Match? Yeah he?
Was that was kind of, surprising, Right so.
They kind of skirted that, criticism but still you would liked to be elimination. STYLE i think what they're, again what they're trying to do last night is make it seem even more In. Jeopardy you, know the champions were even more In jeopardy because it was first pin to, win and that was kind of their their marketing. Idea BUT i think to be more equitable and more fair in the, STORYLINE i think it would be best to have elimination style going, forward BUT i don't anticipate them doing.
That it's very rare THAT ww does an elimination style match other than the elimination, chamber and they kind of protect that idea just for that pay per. View would you kind of agree with, That, Greg, yeah.
Definitely AND i think the two reasons that they do first tend to win, is you, know like you talked about throughout this, episode is that they want people to think that the champion is in jeopardy and his title is in, jeopardy and that creates for more intriguing and
interest for the pay per. View AND i think the other reason, is if you've got three or four guys in a, match you don't want to be the first one penned because that makes you look, bad, especially you, know with everybody else still being in a. Match whereas if only one guy's getting, pinned while everybody else ends up coming out looking the same because they didn't win
and they're all in the same. Waveline whereas if you've got a guy in a four man match being the first one, eliminated you, KNOW ww may think that that could undercut his heat a little bit by you, know doing that kind of elimination style and do it more than. Once you, know they do it for The Survivor's series.
Matches they do it for elimination, Chamber so you also don't want to get to a point where you're doing that too, often either at least in WWE's, eyes because obviously they're going for pay per views where they differentiate themselves from each, other and perhaps they think that that's just too.
Close you are listening to THE p TO B torchs live cast as we at the bottom of the. HOUR i am p Tow Torchs assistant Editor James, caldwell And i'm joined By torchs Calumnist Correct. Parks we'll be here for another half hour until they start of, raw and you can follow all of our live covers with myself towards assistant Editor James caldwell and towards Editor Way. Keller we will have real time live coverage of the show up tonight's raw ON p tob torch dot, com so
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There are you a fan OF aw looking to sit, back relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share your. Passion do you want to be tough off the ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the heck are they? Thinking do you want to join a discussion on WHAT aw is doing right and what they could do to.
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Com let's continue on to the nine to one four area code nine one. Four welcome to the, Show please station and know where you're.
From steve From.
Florida, Hey, steve what's going?
ON a question for?
You do you?
Think, oh a couple of questions for.
You do you think we'll get any follow up to who possibly was the driver of the? Limo or that's your something they would?
Ignore? Right that's That we kind of talked a little bit about that in our chat over the. Weekend were there any more clues that make you think we're gonna get an answer to that from last night's pay per?
View not, really, unfortunately BECAUSE i think that could be something that that could create an intrigue as. Well the REASON i don't think it's it's at all going to be part of the. Storyline is that the, announcers you, KNOW i haven't wondered a loud about it. Yet, Uh and we know, that you, know subtlety does not really exist in professional wrestling with the announcers and everything like. That it just, doesn't you, know they think, that you, know that may be too hard to follow or too
hard to get off from a fans point of. View so you, KNOW i think we would be hearing a lot more about it if they intended it to be something that we should be thinking. About you, know we're we're already thinking about who the leader, is and you, know maybe thinking about the driver of the limo if there two different, people would be just too much to have to think about in addition to processing the entire.
Angle so it's my gut feeling right. Now AND i could change tonight based on the announcement's reactions and, whatever BUT i really don't think that's going to be an important part of the N xty invasion.
Angle, david you have another question or follow?
Up, well, YEAH i have a question in a quick follow. UP i just, realized what would the gate that from a logic standpoint would Be Brett hart can easily say who it was because he was in the.
Limbo so maybe that's.
Unless unless unless it's there's nobody like just a regular limo, driver or unless they had the little window down in between the back seat and the and the front. SEAT i, mean you, know they have their outs and ways that they could explain, it BUT i. DON'T i don't think that it's necessarily going to be for the casual. FAN i don't know if it's not really at the top of their list of things to think about after the pay per view.
Tonight, yes that was your other.
Question oh, YEAH i mean do you think? DUMMY i, mean do you think out of the two who've done it, angles The undertaker angle and THE nxt, angle do you think there's a better chance of somebody like The TRIPLE h being involved with one over the. OTHER i, mean If TRIPLE h had to.
Pick an, angle which one do you think he'd?
Pick?
Like what's your?
TAKE i like the QUESTION i would.
THINK i think for his, personality especially coming off the match in the feud With, SHAMUS i think The undertaker storyline better fits. Him undertaker retired his best Friend Shawn. Michaels they can't be on the road, together they can't be doing that D x high jints.
Together so that gives no.
Reason we know in the setup to The WrestleMania match that he he really didn't think That seamus had earned his tripes IN, wwe and, basically you're nothing until you've been At. WrestleMania so from that, Standpoint TRIPLE h aligning himself with a bunch of rookies who have proved, nothing you, know ON, tv let alone at A WrestleMania i just don't think that would make a lot of sense with the storyline terms storyline, either SO i think he would
be better suited for the The undertaker. STORYLINE i really hope it's. Neither that's me, personally but then, Again i'm not a Big Triple ah, fan but then, Again i'm not a Big king fan, Either and you, know there's talk that he's involved in The undertaker angle as, Well SO i, MEAN i don't know which One i'd rather.
Choose to have them be involved in a, giant you, know main event type angle with The, UNDERTAKER i guess it doesn't really matter to, me BUT i think from the storyline, sense it would make more sense For triple should be involved with The undertake to want. SmackDown i agree with that.
ONE i don't see. HIM i don't see how they logically could come to the conclusion that he's behind THE nxt deal unless they have this idea, of you, know some sort of thing where he's Defending Vincent, man And Vincent man hired him to get back At Brett, hart you, know to kind of undermine the show While Brett hart's. Running it never that that'd be some way to get to that, point BUT i don't agree with. It too
many holes explain. THERE i think The undertaker one makes the most, sense BUT i think when he does come back TO, tv it's gonna be the few with Shamous and that's partly WHY i think they might have put the belt On seamus last, night assuming that he retains it for more than a night or more than the next pay per. View perhaps against seen in a rematch was seen to have in the rematch, Clause SO i
imagine The hunter's coming back to you was. Shamous but IF i were to take a take one or the other of those, STORYLINES i would say The undertaker one makes the most, Sense BUT i don't see him going back To. SmackDown i don't think that's realistic For hunter at this point in his. Career so, once of, COURSE i wanted to save him for the Sci fi transition and hav ingim be a big splash On SmackDown before
they move To Sci. Fi that's one, possibility but probably not as strong as a. Possibility it's just him coming back to wrong Ze A. Shamus that seems to be the most logical way to Bring hunter.
Back So.
Steve's good. Call we appreciate you. Call thanks for joining, us and let's continue on to the four two four area code four two. Four welcome to the. Show please take shame of where you're. From all, right this Is. Brian Hey, brian what's going?
On?
HEY i will question?
It you, know do you THINK i have two? Questions do you think that THE wwe has built up certain characters to a certain standard to where you just can't put no one over Like john seen? It you can't see someone LIKE Jacka swagger getting over On John cena clean or even.
Shameless he's never.
Beaten he hasn't beaten anyone, cleanly even when he beats Beat TRIPLE. H they set it up where you know he Attacked TRIPLE h earlier that night and then you know he came back and ON i think that was that night and he Put TRIPLE h. Out AND i think maybe when they're trying to present a pay per view they Don't Jack swagger and other people are just not big of the stars to where you want to really see them win or lose against someone like seeing it because you notice most of all the battles that
Seen us goes, through he. Wins AND i have no problem with him being a face in. Winning but you, know back in the late, nineties when you've Seen austin, win you know he went through a lot you see him go. Through so when the paper view came in a big tailf he was happy to see him. Win but that doesn't happen With John cena because there's no one up there at his levels where that's incredible enough to Put johnson over as that person that you really
really want to see. Win and also do you think that a lot of backstage politics whole certain wrestlers back from being bigger?
Stars, yeah, Yeah.
Brian to answer your first, QUESTION i think a lot of it, is you, Know sina doesn't lose that, often or at least when he does, lose it's not. Clean so it wouldn't incredible in ww's eyes for someone to walk in and just kind of Beat sena. Clean it Would it would almost the way W bucks it would almost knock Down. Sena and When sina is their top, star their top, draw their their biggest money, Maker they're not gonna put anyone Over scena, clean unless unless it's
something like The undertaker In. WrestleMania you, know if they were to set up that match for twenty six Or TRIPLE, h Who TRIPLE h is already. Over you, know there's
only a select few and Maybe Randy, orton Maybe. Edge but you can kind of go back to the mis program and everybody kind of wanted The minutes to go Over John cena and just Solidify miss as a. Star but at the same, Time miss wasn't a, star you, know in terms of a main event level star, Yet so from WWE's, perspective they wouldn't put someone over who's
not solidified as a star Over. Sena it's just from their, perspective it wouldn't seem, logical it wouldn't seem, realistic it wouldn't seem like it would Help sena and it wouldn't seem like it would help them. Miss So, greg what's your take on on the way W w books and why they don't put it over other, stars Over sena and especially in big pay per view matches or at least clean still last, night you, know shame this was on the, belt but it wasn't.
Clean, well the big picture answer is just it takes. Time like you, said you can't bring someone in and you know you Mentioned Jack. Slager Jack flagger's THAT i main a venture for a few, months and that's you, know to to put him Over John. Cena it's just it's just not ww's way of OPERATING. U you, know we Saw goldberg and he's obviously the exception to the,
rule being pushed to the moon and beating everybody. Inside but even then it took him three months of beating jobbers until he finally won THE us title or however long it. Was so it was certainly not something where it Just goldberg came in after months of jobbing Like Jack schwager did and all of a sudden Beat John. CENA ww likes to build guys up slowly and then push them back to the mid card and then started building them up, again and then push them back and
then build them up. AGAIN i, mean you can argue with that certain, length that's not you, know a something that has to be done professional. Wreppling it just. ISN'T i think there's different ways to build guys, Up but you can't have everybody at the same level Of John cena because, inevitably if they're winning all the time Like John cena, is then you're gonna have a lot of
guys losing all the. Time and as much AS i disdain Even stephen, booking you don't want to job your entire roster up to two guys to put them over at the same, level and then all of a sudden one of them gets hurt and you're looking around the roster to see who you can replace, him and, oh you, Know John sen has beating this guy three times. Already we can't just push him right back to the main
event against Against sena because nobody will buy. Him, so you, know to have one guy at the level like Sina, as that is, fine but it's just tough to have more than one. Guy as much as from fans obviously we'd like to see more guys in the position of sena, obviously but from a logistics, standpoints it's very tough to pull. Off and to answer the second question, obviously, yeah, yeah there's there's that stage politics that hold people. Back depending
on your definition of. POLITICS i, mean there's there's writers and agents who favor wrestlers over the. Other so when they're pitching ideas the, McMahon they're pitching you, know their guys for. That there's you, know there's locker room protocol the guys don't. Follow there's you, know guys like them is who he's talked, about you, know getting scolded in the dressing room numerous, times which while accounts is legitimate
that it actually. Happens so, yeah there's there's certain there's definitely a lot of, ways especially in the pre wrestling, business that you that you need to hear about that can get wrestlers in trouble and get their push scale the. Heck it can be the littlest of things that can get their heat with management and into the political nature of the, business or it can be something vague or something deemed big BY, wwe such as The Daniel bryant, situation right and.
You you could also be a situation where a guy just doesn't have a political ally in. Management it could BE i think that was the case kind of With Might. Knocks you, know he had he had a good, look he was decent, athletically he seemed like you had potential to be a guy that could plug in there as a. Heel. Uh you, know they can kind of build up and see you to a top, babyface and it just never really had a political ally to kind of back him or or suggest, that, hey let's GET mynx a bigger.
Push you. Know sometimes that's what it comes down, to is if you don't have that that, ally maybe not so much being held back by, politics but just not having an ally. Politically so to answer your, Question, brian, yeah there's definitely politics involved on you, know who gets pushed and who doesn't get pushed a lot of times it just comes down to timing and who who's kind of in the company at the same, time who has some stroke or, power and whether you're friends with that.
Person so as we've seen With, shamus shame has got shot at the top and everyone kind of, said, well it's because he was you, know he he was a workout buddy With TRIPLE. H you, know sometimes it's just a matter of opportunity and timing and tire, Too yeah, McIntire. Definitely, yeah it comes. Down you, Know shame has lucked out because the roster was so thin that needed Heels uh to kind of feed the scene or at least fewed to A, sina and he kind of luked out being
the right place at the right. Time so it's, opportunity it's it's, luck it's political, allies a lot of different factors that involved that. Situation So brian good calling a good. Question we appreciate.
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Vip let's continue on to the eight one eight area code eight one. Eight welcome to the. Show please say to your name where you're.
From, hey, guys this Is dan and let's Gold. California hi you Good?
Dan how are you doing doing?
Fine first thing, first if you're disgusted WITH, wwe if you're disgusted with roah WITH, dna go buy before dishonor that was an incredible pay per view and you.
Almost had a perfect center for the roh plugs but then you almost were.
There but, yeah but, anyway.
It seems like the only two guys THE ww has managed to get over with this whole nxt angle Or Wade barrett And Daniel brian By daniels and whatever you want to call. Him at one, point if, if if they can't get the nxt angle back on, track do you think maybe two or three weeks from now they bite the bullet and, say you, know the only way we can save this thing.
Is to bring him.
Back you, mean bring Back Daniel bryan is, yeah, Yeah, Greg what do you think Is Daniel brian a guy that could be brought back to to give this angle a little bit more, life you, know with all the talk on the internet and a lot of you, KNOW i wouldn't so much casual. FANS i don't know if casual fans really Remember brian too much. NOW i mean a lot of it is sort of they watched W b for, okay what are you telling me is going
on right? Now and then they kind of pushed out of their mind when they go on the rest of their. Lives but the day Of brian a difference manger maker in this, angle if it kind of stalls, OUT i kind of kind of stalled on the pay per view. OUTSIDE i don't know.
If it really if it really enhanced the.
View it was almost more of an annoyance because the interapt interrupted the main EVAN ww title. Match. Uh If brian did a difference maker at all or This you think this angle is is done by the end of the months or maybe the beginning of the next.
Month, WELL i.
Don't really think that the angle is necessarily off the, rails as a suggested. Already H it's something to keep an eye. ON i think they obviously since the first week that the buzz has certainly died. Down And i'm thats understandable because you can't you can't run those kinds of angles every. Week so people were expecting something, great you, know follow, up but it was a workman like follow.
Up it.
Wasn't it wasn't as you splashy as the first, angle AND i think they disappointed a lot of. People AND i, think you, know you've got to look more at.
The overall.
Picture And i'm, wondering you, Know i'm willing to give it a few more weeks because it is such a big, angle and because it has been portrayed it such a big angle and a long term. ANGLE i think it's really too early to judge, it not even three weeks into its into its.
Run so.
But if it does go off the, rails and so to, speak can they bring Back Daniel brian and will he save the? Angle that's that's a tough, question because it's you, know they've got they could always branch out in that. Direction they set themselves up For Daniel brian returning being ANTI nxt almost.
So it is a direction they could.
Take do they panic and go that direction right off the, bat or do they let this play out in two or three or four or five months down the, line Bring Daniel brian back and branch out that way after that that. Long it all depends on how it gets over with the live, crowds how many ideas the writers can come up with to get this deepest going on a weekly, basis to keep it intriguing for the, fans
to keep it interesting for the. Fans BUT i don't know That Daniel brian can single handedly save, it because it's ALL i was. Written you, know he. Can he can, perform you, know with the best of them that we've seen ON xt he showed some Surprising mike skills and obviously he's got the resting. Skills but it really all depends on how his part is written upon his. Return and, REALLY i don't know if you can bank on one guy to save an angle that's big unless you have a big idea for.
It and it seems like their big idea Was week one and that was a big invasion and they've kind of reproduced some different type of some material coming from, that but they haven't really been able to sort of build the MOMENT i, mean they've sustained thementum because it's still it's still part of the fabric Of. Raw really, three you know, one you, know after three, episodes you,
know counting, tonight it's still a fabric of the. SHOW i don't know If Daniel brian coming back would be perceived as that huge of a deal to the casual audience unless they kind of build it up over a couple of week, period maybe some some hints or some suggestions or bright hard kind of references him a couple of, times and then they bring him. Back that might be a bigger deal than if they just kind of randomly
brought him. BACK i don't know if he's A i don't know if he's a major player in this angle. ANYMORE i mean just kind of they wrote him off the last week's show almost sort, of you, know they left it, open they left and opening from the come. Back BUT i don't know if they're setting it up to where he can be a huge difference maker to to build more momentum for this. PROGRAM i think IT'S
i think it's kind of where it is right. Now we're gonna find out a lot on Tonight's raw on the future of this program and whether it has more legs than just a short term, angle and that might give us a better a better answer on Whether brian can be inserted to make a. Difference so a lot of it's just kind of depends on how they played up. TONIGHT i think it's probe the best way to answer. That, so, Yeah, GREG i think we're just gonna get some answers. TONIGHT
i hope. So and uh, yeah, yeah yes they. ARE i mean right, now it's just, see you really can't tell whether whether this is the long term deal or, not or they're just gonna end it on tonight. SHOW i, mean they can always end it on tonight's. Show you never. KNOW i hope they. DON'T i hope they find a way to continue this and at least continue it to the summer and get some stars out of. THIS i don't know THAT i see a lot of stars in
THE nxt group right. Now, Wait barrett, obviously but the other guys just just sort of almost looks like they're along for the ride and there they're not standing out as. Individuals like that first, BEATDOWN i, mean you Had Jeff field looking very, intimidated you Had gabriel with That icy stare Yet Daniel bryan with his, angle yet He's slater, Involved otunga had a couple of, spots Even tarboro at a. Spot now they'll just kind of look like they're the same,
guy and he's just kind of running. AROUND i don't know if it's That.
James you, know you might have ruined this angle for me by not you but the WAY i interpreted, it because when you you just, SAID i don't know if any of these guys stand out all of a, sudden ALL i could think about my head is The Spirits, Clod AND i really hope that these guys don't end up like The Spirits. CLOUD i, mean that would be so damaging and that would be such a crappy way
to end this. Angle but so now that's always gonna be in the back of my mind WHEN i watched this, angle is you know these guys are gonna end up as bad off as The Spirit squad, did or they were just completely buried and you, know sent back TO ovw quite literally on tv Uh or is this something THAT wwe can make six or eight stars out. OF i, mean even if they make starts out of four of these guys that's half and THAT'S i mean That i'll
set you good for a few. Years, REALLY i, mean so is this a situation where you know that's gonna be that's gonna be, happening or is it gonna Be Spirit squad start twenty?
TEN i mean the timing is right for. That AND i thought about in the back of my head a couple of, times BECAUSE i mean you look at the, pattern uh you, Know Spirit squad and set with the main man's and D x was a big? Angle was THAT o?
Seven?
IS i?
Guess so those six ro oh? Seven and then the next summer WAS I i might be getting my, MY i might be missing the summer in. Here but they had to make million make million dollar giveaway and that just kind of. Disappeared and then you had The gainst hosting thing they started last. Year so it seems like there's only sort of a concept that they start and at, least you, know the, guests WELL i guess maybe not at,
least but they have continued against. Hosting they maybe not to our our enjoyments every week On, raw but they have stuck with A gainst hosting deal they started last. Summer you, know they don't usually, CONTINUE i mean worse, waggle the whole horse, Waggle who's Your daddy? DEAL i think that was a summer, program so they don't have a really good track record of stretching out summer programs over a period of. Time BUT i think this one has more potential than The Spirit, Squad so i'll put.
It i'll put it that, Way, greg to to reassure you THAT i don't think a little. Bit, Yeah i'll put it to ease a little. Bit.
Yeah I'm Kelly, wells host of P Wt TALKS, nxt the longest RUNNING nxt podcast. Anywhere join, me along With Nate, Lindberg Bruce, Lee, hazelwood and special, guests live Every tuesday, night just minutes AFTER, nxt where we cover the, good the, bad and the ugly on the way to becoming a star IN. Wwe check us out live on YouTube or stream later wherever you get your.
Podcasts all, right.
Let's go back to the phone. Lines this Is waxworth three to one, Six so welcome to the. Show please teach your hey me where you're. From?
Hi this Is Stephen. Philadelphia Hey, steve what's going?
On?
YEAH i want to.
Talk about last night's pay per view and the whole state of the pay per view is based ON i would say that there's an overcapacity of wrestlers on one brand.
As the Rob RAN a. Stacked is that what you're, Saying.
Steve, yeah it's two, stacked and people Like, Edge Chris, jericho And John morrison are never gonna get over with an overpacked brand like. THAT i think after the, SUMMERTIME i think those kind of superstars are gonna went back On SmackDown because they're not gonna.
Be, used, uh you, know.
Properly and these three Are World Heavyweight championship contenders and look what they've been. Doing. Now look At, edge what. Happened he came back on a big injury and they refuse to put a title belt around his waist and he's a main event.
Contender, yeah, SEE i think on your, Front, EDGE i don't know IF ww sees him as a guy they want to put a major title on right. NOW i think when he came back and there was momented behind him when he came back to The rumble and and then the build up WAS i, Mean, greg you can kind of duck and describe, this the build up On SmackDown Before, MANIA i didn't really catch. Fire and then as the, media the crowd.
Was not Behind.
Edge it just. Wasn't it was going the doweld he of him, return he kind of wore, off and it was just, that, well we Have. Edge you, know he's a good hand in the, ring he's a good no TV's, tall he's a guy who can put into a pay per view main, event and there's three other guys in
the same match like last. Night BUT i don't think if they see him as a guy to carry a, brand And, greg you're talking about that as well as if you anticipate to be maybe shifting some of the stars From raw over To, SmackDown especially before they move over To Sci fi this.
FALL i mean to answer the. Question all used to do was look at their two rosters side by, side and it's pretty clear that The raw has a big advantage Over. SmackDown and you, know you mentioned switching things up for the, fall with the debut On Sci fi expected by By SmackDown in the, fall so obviously ww wwe he's gonna move some people around and move some guys To snackdown so they can make the biggest flash
On sion. Fine as For, edge, yeah he. Did the thing is even though if WI w thought that, WAY i, mean he really did Carry SmackDown for a while though when he was when he was With. VICKY i mean that was that was huge For. SmackDown that was that was getting great, heat they had great matches a that was that was a money pairing right. There so just in fact they don't see him as a guy who
can carry a brand or be a minimum. PLAYER i Think i'll have to do his point to that and and really, say, yeah that's he's already done, it so how can you say he can't do? It? Edge as for him coming, back he'd never really Turned, babyface and
that's been the same situation With Randy. Orton if there was never that moment or that reason given or that you, know that breaking right where there was a there, WAS i don't know how to describe it other than you, know he never turned and he just there was this assumption BY wwe that he's returning from an, injury so fans are gonna cheer him because he's a big star returning from, injury and they, did but there needed to be something more behind that for the, street for the
street for the first few weeks when he was On SmackDown after his, injury there was he was basically playing a tweener and really, didn't uh didn't.
Explain a lot of him turning baby.
Face he didn't play to the crowd and wasn't an obvious baby. Face And i'm not saying that's something you have to, do but if you're going to bring a guy back and not officially quote Unquote, durham then the fans need Something otherwise they'll, say, well this is just the same old edge we, booed why should we be
cheering him? Now AND i think it's it's caused for, confusion and it's caused for people to kind of sit on their hands and not really know what to do because it's OBVIOUS ww wants them to wants the fans to cheer, him but the fans don't really have that reason To and, UH i don't know why that the last couple of times that they've done terms with these big, guys that that there really hasn't been that turning. Point there hasn't been That batista Attacks raymaterio after the match
and just crushes. HIM i, mean there hasn't been that in moments that that you can point to as that was the time but us to turn from baby space to Heal AND i just FEEL i don't know if W w just didn't have any ideas for, it or or if they thought the way they would right him would be good enough to you, know make up for, it or, what but that was really something that that was really lacking And Adges babystace turning and probably did enough damage to where that was one of the reasons
why they turned them back heel.
Or another another idea would been that they Thought Chris jericho was a strong enough heel that they could get by without really explaining that that that moment that why are you supposed to cheer Your? Edge what's so honorable about him just coming back and chasing after that? Title? Literally AND i think they kind of the way they wrote it was the focus on the spear was, okay but not for Wrestle. MANIA i, mean we're looking, out
we're going back three. Months BUT i think it plays into Why edge isn't that strong of a character right. Now he doesn't have that strong heel storyline like he did With Vicky. Guerrero like you, Said gregor when he was kind of carrying That SmackDown brand and now he's just kind Of he had that storyline With Randy orton in that, feud but that feud kind of fizzled out and they.
Had, that you, know kind of passable match at A latn's pay.
Per view before ort was. Injured so there isn't a lot About minton Behind edge's, character especially On, raw and lately he's just become a loss in the shuffle beyond THE nxt invasion angle despite being a pay per view main, event and then they try To they tried to prevent him as a stronger character on the pay per view last night with that that promo he had talking about and everybody else says the stack or the deck stacked against. Him, meanwhile, Me,
Edge i'm in great position to win the. Title so they try to do something with them last, night but, uh they've got to do more work with. Them so got interesting to see what's interested to see what they do with.
Him we're down the about last sixty, seconds SO.
I just want to review the quick headlines on pbtorch dot. Com batista in the news TELLING tmz at A hollywood club over the weekend that he has signed With strikeforce for the HIS mma. Debut Strike force said, no he is not. Signed perhaps they were saving a bigger announcement later On chris Here goes new show, Debuts His Dude game showed a debuts ON abc tomorrow, night and lots of other headlines On Chris JERICHO tna. Headlines The ring
Of honor had their big pay per view On. Saturday greg give us a final thought was about ten seconds up in.
The, Show.
Wow And.
Illo you all.
Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions or. Comments that email address Is Wade Keller podcast at petewtorch dot. Com That's Wadekeller podcast at pw torch dot. Com also welcome your feedback On. Twitter you can follow us On twitter at Pw torch and follow me at The Wade Keller that's AT Pw torch and at The Wade.
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