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Now. Pw Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast.
Today on the Wade Color Pro Wrestling Podcast, we jump back ten years to a special episode the Helena Cell Post Show. James Caldon and Greg Parks hosted this right after the event ended with live callers. This event included two Helena Cell matches, one featuring John Sene against Randy Orton, the other Dean Ambrose against seth Rawlins. Also Nikki Bella versus Bray Bella where the loser head become the others
assistant for one month. Seamus took on the Miz for the US title, Page took on aj Lee challenge Jjlee for the Davis title, and more so. Again they're live callers and interaction throughout the show, which originally live stream on October twenty six, twenty fourteen, ten years ago this week, and it is today's ten years ago we Keller PROG Wrestling podcast Flashback.
You're listening to the P to B Torch Live Cast. It's Sunday night, October twenty six, twenty fourteen, on a special edition of live cast here at P to B torchlivecast dot com. Following ws Hell in a Cell pay per view from Dallas, and I'm your host on tonight's show. P to B Torch Assistant editor James Caldwell joined by Torch columnist Greg Parks breaking down tonight's pay per view and we will get to Greg right here in a second. Greg, how are you doing tonight?
I'm doing well, James, always glad to be with you here on these pay per view postgame shows.
Yeah, first one since Night Champions last months. I was like six weeks ago. I think for a long time, Greg, we didn't know what to expect from the show in terms of would they have some sort of big angle, would there be a big development perhaps with the w title situation, no major title match on this show without brock Lester. Paul Hymn was there, but no brock Lesner. So there's a new number of contenders, John Cena, so
we're gonna get seen a Lesner again. They tipped a big angle for the main event, main event, South Rollins Dean Ambrose. More than half of that quote unquote match was before the match even started, and then the main event ends with the return of bray Wyatt, costing and
Ambrose the match against Rawlins. But what was your reaction when you saw that, Greg, Just initially when you saw the finish, and then we'll kind of get to the you know, the implications, But your reaction to how the main event the pay per view ended.
Well, it was a little surprising to me because it didn't seem like the Seth Rollins Dean Ambrolse feud was over yet, and it looked like they were already transitioning into Dean Amberls versus bray Wyatt. So I'm curious to see how they fit Wyatt in with those two. If you remember, this is how bray Wyatt's feud seemed to start. He just randomly attacks someone and then they make up a reason later. This is how his feud with John Cena started too. His feud with Chris Jericho started a
very similar way. Where he just came out of the crowd and randomly attacked Jericho. So we shouldn't be surprised that this is how it starts, but I think I'm surprised at when it's starting. When Ambrose and Rollins, we still haven't gotten a decisive, clear cut winner yet in this feud.
What do you that's gonna happen? I mean, do you think it's WrestleMania, Like they're gonna save the you know, Ambrose's victory of Rawlins, You're gonna save it for WrestleMania The Bowl twenty seventeen. I mean like when, I mean, like honest, when do you think they because obviously you said they're going to go off to Bray and Ambrose and I assume Rowlins does someone with Orton sort of
the internal battle the authority. But how when did they'll get back to a point where Ambrose finally get set win over Seth Rollins.
That's a good question.
I don't know.
It doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon. I think there were some thoughts that it might happen here tonight. Obviously that wasn't the case. I think WrestleMania is a possibility. I think that would be the very latest though, that you could do it, because Bray Wyatt and Dean Ambrose and then Seth Rawlins and Randy Orton.
If you extrapolate those two out, do those two feuds stretch out to say the Royal Rumble and then Rollins versus Ambrose somehow picks up at the Rumble where they's off here, And how does that happen? How do they go back to Ambrose Rollins and have both of these two new feuds finish at the same time. So I don't know what the thinking is from WWE as to why they feel the need to go in a different direction right now without giving the fans a clear cut
winner in this feud. But you know, for a WrestleMania match, Ambrose versus Rollins sounds appealing. But remember the last few weeks it feels like that feud has been kind of running on. So are they going to able are they going to be able to reheat it in the winter next year to really get it going and make it feel like a WrestleMania match comes springtime?
And then like what kind of match can they even have? I mean, Helena Cell seems like the blowoff, you know, like as far as the match structure, so they've had a Lumberjack, they've had Helen to sell, you know, I quit I mean is that I just don't know what else they can do. Wants to go to hell in itself. But like you said, maybe enough time passes where they
can kind of refresh it. It doesn't feel like it's, like you said, running on fumes and they can make it interesting again for Russellmania or some other pay per view. Ambrose has got to get the win. It just a matter of win. I mean, they could be back to it at TLC. I mean, they could have a TLC match and they might have a month off here, but that would be kind of a short change and presuming
Bray Wha Dean Ambrose feuds. So yeah, I'm not sure, but I'm gon lean towards Mania to give them a really strong match between two younger stars, you know that that guaranteed showcase match for the younger you know, for the basically the recent NXT development of wrestlers, if you want to put Ambrose Rollins Wide in that sort of category. Uh. As far as as far as how the how this
pay per view played out, Greg Roy Strong. I was Roy Strong undercar or with the opening match with Ziggler and c Sorrow, and then you have the first home of some match was seen in Orton and the top of the second hour, so that that's your entire first half hour of the show, an hour and a half of the show, and then they kind of went into some okay stuff. It made you've been Like I said,
it was sort of all over the place. How do you assess this show overall when you look at a pretty strong first half of the show and then sort of a you know, okay, the good second half of the shot, how does it all balance out in your mind?
Well, it's definitely a thumbs up show for me, and I think I saw it very similar similarly to how you saw it, James, where the first half of the show was a really strong thumbs up for me. Things sort of tapered off from there, but it didn't fall off a cliff, you know, the quality was still there, but it was harder to find than in the first half of the show, So it was a little bit
of a dip in the second half. And your mileage me very on Ambrose versus Roll, that's again a match a lot of people were excited to see, and this is the one that people thought they were finally going to get a full fledged Ambrose versus Alland's match. You did sort of get that, but you didn't get a conclusive finish or a clean finish rather and you didn't get the kind of I don't think match quality from a pure wrestling standpoint that a lot of people were
hoping for. And I'm okay with that trade off of the match quality wasn't four and a half stars to me or five stars. But was this a star making performance for Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins. Did they come out of Helena sell the pay per view stronger than when they went in? I think you could make the argument that they that they did based largely on the
fact that they Maine invented this pay per view. So even though the match quality wasn't maybe what people were anticipating, there were enough big moments in the match to further each man's career and to make them bigger stars in the eyes of some of the fans.
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And I know one of the big issues that people are gonna have with the end of the pay per view was again another non fit. I mean there was a penfall, but an interference filled finish to a mean event. Last month Summer Slam, I'm sorry, last month of the Night Champions was Rowlands interfered in the Brockwaster John Stenham rematch. They've had a slew of raw TV made events where there's either not even a finish or a DQ finish or non finish whatever. Are they pushing it, Greg or
are they able to get away with it? Because the Ambrose Rawlins was pretty good. Like you said, it was a pretty good match. It wasn't technically a great like four Star match, but it was a pretty good match. Are they pushing it? And have they've gone too far with the cop out non finish DQ finishes as of late, well, there's.
Still a long way from that Randy Yorton versus Daniel O'Brien non finish escapade of four paper four or five pay per views in a last year or whatever it was, So they haven't quite reached that point yet. But I think the the intrigue surrounding bray Whitt's return and him going after Dean Ambrose, I think that may largely make
up for the finish that we saw. I think fans, because they're so high on very WIAT and obviously Dean Ambrose, I think they the intrigues surrounding in Ambrose versus Why the feud may make up for the uh, the anger that they may feel and not having a clean winner in in Rollins versus Ambrose.
Very good, good thoughts. We're gonna jump to phone calls. Got lots to unpack, especially the undercard. Undercard deserves a lot of attension tonight. Usually it's right, right, we kind of sit and talk about, you know, two matches because the undercard's kind of you know, it's fine or wasn't that good tonight? The undercard really really held its own. So we'll get the phone calls and and some other
thoughts on on the undercard. I think it deserves attention, so we would touch on that as well with of course the main events, UH before I had the phone calls, though, Greg, I always like to ask this question, how was your feed a network extreme? But what was it one your end?
Well?
Last time, if you remember, I was one of the few times that I actually had problems UH with the feed at night Champions, and they were minor, but they were still enough for me to make mention of them. I had a perfectly clean feed the entire show on my laptop today, so I have no complaints about that.
Very good. Yeah, I had a couple of glitches in the main event. I wasn't sure if it was the network or my internet connection, so I'm not sure about that, but yeah, otherwise it was pretty clean throughout, so I was pleasantly surprised that there were no issues. That that's good. But if people did have issues, let us know when you do call up and talking about how to sell This is Torch, This is Nedder. James Caldwell joined by Torch, Columbus.
Greg Parks taking your calls at six four, six, seven, one nine, eight two eight, and we'll kick things off with the six one four area code. Welcome to Show sixty one four. Please say Jena and riclling from.
Hey Greg, Hey James, this is Adam calling from Colemas, Ohio again.
How are you guys doing tonight?
Hey? Doing good?
Adam?
What's your mind?
A couple of things first, I'll start with a stream. So time winner Cable Internet Provider PS three was the media source, perfectly clear, maybe one of the best qualities I've ever had, So I was gonna mention I did think that something was going goofy with my stream. Once the bray whyatt fiasco started, I was like, because it kept repeating the same thing over and over and it was not one of those you know blackouts three seconds
the crowd's reacting. It was literally I you know, maybe it was shorter, but it seemed like ten to fifteen seconds at least for me, And I was almost ready to fast forward or tried to see if something was going on my stream, and then it came back and I was like, okay, so yeah, so no, Adam, the stream over people like.
That because they shouldn't scare peop because I think people are gonna think that their stream is messed up. So yeah, I will. I don't think they should scare people like that.
Yeah, I was totally convinced. I was like, and I was like, no, what is going on? This is the high spot or something's big happening, and now I got to try to rewind or something. So I'd like, yeah, anyways, so I'm I'm probably not alone in that. I'll just give my my couple of thoughts, and I have a
question here. So I'd listened to the live past from Thursday and I think it was I don't know who it was, one of you guys, I'll say both of you came up the idea that Foley's appearance on Raw was was maybe a prelude to some type of a high spot or an attempt to you know, his off the top shelf. It was good, obviously, that's for me, that was the high spot of the match. But but when they realized, you know, that the match quote unquote hadn't started, that was kind of like, well, what was
the point of that? I mean that that should have maybe gone outside of the for me, it would have been better had they started the match inside, didn't gone outside and done that that and then it seemed like maybe it ended and then gone back in. I don't know that that would that would have been interesting. Sure, I'll probably take some heat from Sergeant or or some other folks, but I thought best match with Sina Orton, just just because, I'll tell you, I hated that finish.
I hated the finish or the rawlins Ambrose match. It made no sense. As Greg mentioned, you know, if bray Wyatt's goal is just to come out of nowhere and start feuds with people just because with no background, that's a real turn off. I mean, the pay per view was really good overall. That was probably one of the worst parts of it. I thought, I think that my thoughts on this or that that they are actually now
almost in concrete with Rains against Lesnar at Mania. I think they're gonna have either a survivor or at the rumble, it's gonna be Sena versus Lesnar. I think Lusner's gonna win that match, and I think they are now back into the Rains mode. That's just my opinion. I hope I'm wrong, actually, And then The last thing I'll say is I think the second best match of the night, and I'm not joking here. I think you got to give it up for the Bella twins. Nicki and Brie put on a heck of a match. I mean it
was really good. I think Page and AJ actually looked a step or two behind them. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that, but overall on a ten point scale and give it a six and a half to oh seven. I thought it was a pretty good pay per view with except for one of the screw screw aut finishes with the I don't know if it was Star Wars they were trying to do with the hologram and the smoke or what, but it didn't work that well. Yeah, the smoke came up and I saw the hologram. I'm like,
is that supposed to be very white? Because that's the only thing I mean, obviously a lantern. But yeah, I didn't like to finish, if you can tell. But other than that, I'll shut up and let you guys come. I want to hear your thoughts though on the bell match because I really actually enjoyed that.
Thank you, guys. I could call that I appreciate it. Good kickoff.
Yeah, well let's start.
I'm like gonna mention the undercard. I think that again that deserves some attention. I would have put the the Intercontinental title two or three falls match, as then I agreed I had seen Orton as a number one match of the show. I would put Greg the Intercontinental title match number two. Ambrose Rowlands that. Yeah, that's there's so much there going on, a lot of breakdown. We'll get to that in a second. But yeah, I mean, what
do you mean about the Bellows match? Was? You know, we don't often see a good brother versus brother, you know, the rare sister vers sister match. You know, Jeff and Matt haven't always had good singles matches against each other. They have to play one or two, but we all see that too often. Booker and stev Ray, what were your thoughts on that match? And I think it was Elliot at the very least the surprise of the of the night.
I was really impressed, in fact, to have a match. I tweeted that I was surprised at how well timed the match was, as far as the timing between the two and how crisp and tight a lot of the moves were because in some of the divas matches you see a lot of light between moves and it's not very hard hitting, I guess, is what I would say. But they did a really good job with both of those things, and both of those boxes were checked for me,
and that surprised me. So I don't know if it's working together because they're sisters, that they're more comfortable with each other or what it was, but I was very impressed as well with that match.
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It is also Adam mentioned in the Hell of the Cell match. Yeah. They started they started the match brawling on top of the sell. Yeah, and there was some of that awkwardness of you know, the crowds booing because they folk, you know, they're taking the bait that all this match isn't gonna happen. Uh, they might have also been booing it the match had happened, the spot happened, and then their t's in the match isn't even gonna conclude.
So either way, the crowd probably gonna was probably gonna boo that sequence as people are being rolled out of the ring or ring side. Greg Hindsight was out the right way to go starting the match on the cell, having the big bump. Then you kind of go around the cell and then you send it back in the ring and then the bell sound or should they have done the you know, as Adams suggests, they have the match go to the top spot, okay, if the match going to continue, and then they make the way back in.
It does in hindsight, which you think was the best way to go about it.
I think the way they did it was the better way to go about it.
And here's why.
The whole point of the hell in cell structure is to keep these guys in it and in theory keep others out unless they're hiding under the ring. So to start the match on top and get the big bump in and then move into the body of the match inside the cage, I think was the right way to go. I don't think you want to start the match inside the case. It then expose the cell gimmick by going outside of the cell and on top of the cage
and then coming back in. I think that you know, we talk about before another Hell on a Cell matches when this stuff happens, about how they're ruining the concept and the whole gimmick of the hell on a Cell cage when it's proven it's so easy to get in and out of the cell. So once they were into the cell and the door was locked, I'm glad that they stayed in there.
And that kind of leads to the bray Wyatt topic of you know, he shows up inside the cell. Are they able to get away with that, because it is sort of the mystical, sort of a supernatural type character that going with bray Wyatt, where you can kind of be engrossed and the the the the smoking mirrors or the smoking lantern, the weird hologram. I don't, Yeah, like Adams, I don't know what they're going for as far as the image goes, I didn't. I never could tell what
the image was. Is that excusable because it is bray white or is that still kind of a little bit of hokey, a little bit too hokey.
I wouldn't use the word excusable. I'd say it's more explainable because of bray Wyatt and how he has a tendency of when the lights go out, to just appear out of nowhere. So it fits the character to be able to do that, and it does add some mysticism and some mysteriousness to the character to have him do that, and I think that's what they're going with or with that character. So it made more sense for bray Wyatt to do it as opposed to almost anyone else on
the roster. If that had happened with them, then I can see the complaint. But with bray Wyatt, it's something we've sort of come to expect from him and it's part of his character.
I hesitated to go here because last month I talked a lot about what they might do on TV coming out about what I got it right on Ambrose and c. You know, it's sort of form an alliance against Rawlins and the authority they The other big tought I had was there'd be a big follow up on brock Lester Paul Hayman against Rawlins. You know, the cash in, you know what, you know the way that MAINVN and Night Champions ended. They really just sort of brushed that aside
in a major way after the pay per views. So I hesitated to go here. But bray Wyatt the authority, is there a link? Are they going to explain a link? Is it just gonna be bray Wyatt's on his own. It just kind of just so happened that he cost Dean Ambrose a match that benefited seth Rawlins and slashed the authority. Uh do they go there? Greg? Do you think if you're gonna put on your prediction cap, I will too. I'm gonna say no. I think they're just
gonna have these sort of bees standalone. But what do you think, Greg? Any chance they kind of link up Bray with the authority slash Rawlins.
I don't think they should. It wouldn't be beyond my imagination to think the wwe would do that. But the authority in the Wyats seemed to be living in two separate worlds. And I think we've talked about those separate worlds before, you know, when Sampunk was champion and then John Cena was still made of any pay per views against John Laureniis, and even more recently we've had, you know, certain feuds taking place almost in a different world than other feuds are. And I think you've got to keep
the Wyats separate from the authority. I don't think them being in bed together makes any sense from any sort of angle. I'm sure WW we could try, but I think it would be best to keep those two way far apart from each other.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just imagine. You know, first of all, they got to explain why Bray is going after Dean, and then if they then try to explain, Okay, well Bray it was benefiting the authority, then you just kind of get lost. Yeah, it's that might get a little messy. I'm with you on that.
Plus you'll have to go through you'll have to sit through reading interviews with Stephanie McMahon talking about how Bray Wyatt loves to play this heel character on TV and and how this physical character really really makes him smile behind the scenes.
So you don't want that, No, I don't know. No, yeah that that that's your cat's only idea of that happening. Yeah, just no, no. And in the last ye adam mitched was Roman rings. Do you get more assurance or or I guess confidence or more more? I guess more evidence is the more evidence that they're going to go in a direction of Brock and Rains of WrestleMania with perhaps as there was in mentioned the top rollin an Ambrose, maybe in the separate WrestleMania match.
I don't think tonight's pate for view results will have swayed me either, way, I don't think there is enough on this show to really make me jump up and say, okay, that right there happening has convinced me that they're going all in on Roman reigns. I think it's as much far of staying the course and playing it safe and
leaving options open. I certainly don't think any door has closed right now the way WWE is booked, whether they want to go all in with Rains or whether they're having second thoughts, I don't think either of those two avenues is really obvious coming out of this pay per view. So in my opinion, I've seen nothing to make me believe that they're not going to continue with the push of Roman range when he gets back to eventually headline WrestleMania against brock Lesner.
Yeah, yeah, I think it all depends on, like you said, where they are, And then I would add, what's Rain's health? You know, when is he able to come back? And we don't know the answer to that yet, so we'll see. But I feel pretty good about Ronind's Ambrose being in a WrestleMania Mania bit and now, obviously a lot of things can change in between now and then, but I got down in Pennsylvan for mania now based on what happened tonight. But we'll see what happens Adam, good call,
appreciate it. Let's go to our next caller, six o one area Code're up next six o one. Please set your name where you're going from.
This is.
God, This is Sorge, Sorrge.
You sound despondent.
I told you I made myself promise I would. I really didn't here tonight. I just happened to click on the last I let my daughter had a TV. I clicked on the last few minutes. I said, I don't feel like I said, said, oh great man, I'm piped up Dean Ambrose and Steth. I was doing the main event and then, like the guy called it early, I was like, what is this start? The lights went out and I'm like, uh, fifteen seconds later, Hello, what's on on?
Then I saw the little Jedi Howler Graham. I'm gonna say, Okay, Bread White Great seth Rawlins is gonna win this one. I'm like, oh, well, but at least I got my main event out of them. Then I went online to I'm out that the since we on PG, the y'all a mighty super sayt sena kickout it to eat sleep, he has to win, repeat, is going to face. Hey, we gotta deal with him again. Yeah, and after I hang up, I'm gonna get kick out. What greed he
says about this. But yeah, really a third time, I would rather see Rock often three over senor getting another shot bam head on wall. I'm done often leave and I'm fain to watch some real wrestling called Miss South on YouTube the current Wrestling PWG. I'm out see you guys Thursday, have fun. I'm done five all.
Right, George, I think I think we got how how Sarage feels about it. And I mean it's funny because you know Ben Tucker at b Tucker Torch on Twitter, he goes all the pay per views. He had a funny tweet earlier than day where he was just kind of standing in the line going in the building and someone around I'm assuming a casual fan and said to somebody else, like, you know, I hope ran New Orton wins so we don't have to watch scene in brock Lesser again. And so they they kind of baby faced
Orton to a certain percentage of the audience tonight. It was a good match. It's just you know, SNA one that's gonna upset a lot of people, also gonna make a lot of people happy. It just sort of depends on whether you're a seen a fan or not so Greg your thoughts. You don't see a wins, it's gonna be another round of seeing them. Brock. We don't know yet if it's gonna be Survivor series next month. We don't know if it's gonna be TLCN Decend. We don't
know it's gonna be Roll Romeo Jamu. We just don't know the timeline yet. They didn't say the next pay per view will be the title match. I presume next month is friber series.
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Your take on Charge's phone call about Sena.
Sena and Lesner, Hey, it doesn't really thrill me either. I think Orton versus Lessler at least would have been different, and Orton does feel like he has a certain amount of momentum behind him right now and that would lead to the Orton babyface turn that has been predicted now for a while. But you have to think back to Knighted Champions and Sina was basically screwed out of the title against Lesner and had to fight again to get a rematch when theoretically one should have been granted for
him in the first place. And we talked to the Knight of Champions post show James about how we kind of just assumed that Sina versus Lesnar three was gonna happen at this pay per view and it didn't. So I think as far as how the story has been told so far, Sena is deserving of a third shot, but.
I agree with.
Sarge that it doesn't really thrill me, even though the matches have been good. Orton versus Lessner again at least would be different. And I don't know why Sarge brought up the straw man argument of kind of wanting to see Rock Austin three over, you know whatever.
The other match was.
No one's debating Rock Austin three. If we were offered, then of course we'd all take it, But that's not even in the argument right now, So I don't know why he brought that up. But yeah, storyline, whies it make sense for Seena to get the opportunity again at Lesnar.
I don't know what story they're gonna tell at this point, because they've they've already told the story of overcoming the odds and overcoming the beatdown he suffered at SummerSlam at the hands of Lesner to try to get back to the mountaintop at Night of Champions, you know, do they kind of pick up where they lost off there and start telling the story? And you know, like you mentioned, a lot of it depends on when Lesner versus Scena is gonna happen. If it doesn't even happen till the
Royal rumbo. We don't have to worry about it for.
A few months.
So what do they do in the meantime Withsina exactly?
Yeah, does he get the match of Rawlins? You know that he was trying to get at this pay per view, you know, but Ambrose got the shot at Rowinds. So yeah, I mean, if they don't have, but then that would kind of throw off what eye into, which is Rolins and Orton as the next pay review. I like to me, Greg, the card I have in my head is a Survivor series. Its scene verus Bronck. It's Orton versus Rolins, is Ambrose versus Bray? Whyte as your top three? That's a I
mean to me, it's a pretty compelling card. Even if you're kind of tired of seeing and Brock, those two matches underneath are really compelling because they're new and different. If that's the way they goes, they don't go that way. I'm not I'm not saying that whatever they come up was gonna be worse when I come up with. I just I don't know what else they would do base what happened tonight. They would be compelling and you know,
get more compelling than what they set up tonight. Uh if you look at those if those three matches happen next month, Greg on paper, does that make it a little bit more digestible that we're gonna get another scene and versus Brock match.
I think so.
And to have a top three matches that strong is more than what we've seen from WWE pay per reviews in the past, where it's either been a one or a two match show. So we have a card three deep like that, and then still have the undercargo still out with probably strong secondary title matches. I think that's a good support base for those three top matches.
Just past midnight Eastern eleven o'clock Central here on the PW Torch Live cast following Hell in a Cell, I'm your host, Torches Senator James Caldwell. I'm joined by Torch calling this Greg Parks and we're taking your phone calls at six four, six, seven, nine to eight. Let's go some more phone calls. Next up is the six to three zero area code. Welcome to show, six to three, Hope, please set your name where you going from?
Hey, this is Craig from Chicago.
Hey, Craig, what's you mine today?
Okay, well, my bears got whooked today and then I just had my intelligence insulted for like three hours tonight watching this pay per view. So I'm gonna rant, and I'm gonna rant. Good. All right, First of all, go, I'm SEENO should be nowhere, nowhere near the world title anymore.
Nowhere.
I don't care how much merchandise he sells, which, by the way, it's not that hard to do. When your merchandise it's available out numbers next guy's thirty to one. Okay, Now, Dean Ambros seth balance. That was a star making match ruined by this ridiculous bray Wyatt thing. And let me tell you something. It wasn't that long ago. Bray Wyatt was made to look like a bungling idiot by guess who,
John Cena. So you know it's just and so on my intelligence and had these two hell and the cell matches with all this stuff going on there, the weapons and everything, and nobody walks out with a scratch on them. Come on, you know this is this is like nineteen ninety five garbage. Now, I mean, I'm paying for this crap. You know, if they don't get their act together, I'll just watch it illegally on the internet again like I was doing before. I mean, it's all over the place,
it's free. All the programming on there sucks anyways, so you know. But I mean, I love pro wrestling. I'm not gonna walk away from it though. That's the thing. This is what I love watching. I've been watching it for thirty five years. Give me something that I can that I can enjoy, you know. I mean, Jesus Christ, that you can hit a star making match tonight ruined by this ridiculous finish that made no sense by a guy that was made to look like a bumbling idiot.
I I just don't get it. Somebody, somebody's not There's nothing going on there in their heads there when they're writing this stuff out.
I don't know.
Exactly any redeeming quality on the show tonight, any any undercard matches, anything else that you found.
The main event was great. It was great despite the lack of realism. It was still great until until the end. I mean, Dan Ambrose is your guy. You got they got to that's the guy they should run with. I mean, the fans are just there. You can tell they're dying to just exploding that arena and and sheer like beyond belief, but they just won't scramp the locket to anybody not named Sena. I don't get it. It makes no sense, you know, I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, real quick. Let me go on that point, because I've had this thought in my head's in the pay per view into Greg, and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. We seem to be in another period of the delayed gratification. Last year it was Daniel Bryan. You know, he was cut off, He was cut off. He was cut off over and over and over and over again, and the steuter of Orton trying to get the title fu on the guy to WrestleMania big moment,
and then of course Brian gets injured right afterward. Or here he kind of already was injured, but then he got to the point where he couldn't wrestle after WrestleMania.
Do you get the sense of doing the same thing here with Ambrose, Greg, where they're delaying the gratification of Ambrose finally beating Rollins and getting revenge on the shield breakup, and are they is it working if you, if you're optimisty, they're gonna get to a point where Ambrose gets his you know, his big moment at the big finally he finally won. Assuming they get there with this, it feels like the same thing as Brian last year in some ways.
Is it working or are they risking not seizing a moment where the crowd, as Craig said, they're ready to get behind Ambrose in a big way.
Well, I think they're definitely risking something by holding off having Ambrose get the victory. The difference between Ambrose and Daniel Brian, of course, is that Daniel Brian is going after the WWE World title. He's going after something tangible in addition to getting his big win. He wanted the title in that big moment with Dean Ambrose. It's not a much smaller level. It's just we want him to get a win over Seth Rollins, who's not even really
a main event heel. You know, he's I guess he proved me wrong tonight.
He wasn't main event heel tonight.
But you know, when you look at over the long haul, he's an upper midcard heel. Okay, he's just breaking through right now. But he could just as easily get bumped down when this is over, or he's not sort of a made man yet. I don't think. And you know, if you disagree with me, that's that's fine. I can see the other side of the coin too. But you know, it's Dean Ambrose getting a win over Seth Rollins. That's a lot different than finally breaking through and getting the
WWE world title. So yeah, and when you when you see stuff like we saw this past week with the mannequin, it makes you think WW is trying a little too hard or maybe running out of good ideas what to do. And that really makes you think, oh boy, if they're going to keep delaying this gratification, what are they going to keep coming up with to the top this stuff every week on TV? So you you start to really worry about when Ambrose does get to win, is it going to mean anything.
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And you've also got the hurdle of let's assume Rolinson. Let's say Rowlinson and bray Wyatt have a match the next pay per view. I'm sorry, Ambrose and bray wy
have a match the next paper view. So you've got Ambrose who really needs to win, and you've got bray Wyatt, who, as Craig said, I mean he was made to look pretty weak in the especially the last time I really saw bray on television, which was, Hey, John Can just got squashed at SummerSlam, Craph, we need to make Steal really strong on TV, Like now, let's rush through this and let's have him squashed bray Wyatt. Oh, that makes a lot of sense, you know. So that was the
last time I really saw Bray and relevant position. Let's boom off TV for about a month and a half, brought it back here. You really can't have Bray lose his first major match since coming back and in the last segment, last moment of a pay per view that's you know, maybe an angle here, So you kind of run the risk if yeah, lose momentarly either Ambrose or
bray Wyan unless you have another non finish. Uh so great hypothetically we haven't any build up obviously, but right now Ambrose bray Witan, what would you do with the booking of that match if that would have happened in Survivor series.
I would do See this is the time use a Survivor's series. He's eliminate tion of style match. Have Ray White is one of the captains, to have Dean Ambrose
as one of the captains. That way you can delay that one on one match and delay rather than putting on one matches Survivor series where you have to come up with a creative finish where nobody wins and nobody loses, you just do them all time an tag match and you can sort of get away with it there and then delay the actual one on one match till later on. But Ray's a guy who he can lose, but he's so into that character, and that character is so different and it is so gripping to a large portion of
the fan base. He's not a guy who loses much by losing one, two, three, I don't think. And that's what he has going for him.
Now.
That's not to say I think Deana Ambrosse is going to beat him in their first pay per view encounter.
But.
He can always get that heat back with a stare or you know, the mic works that he does so well. I'm not as concerned about that as someone who's maybe tenuous in their footing and who is just starting to get over and you know who, who needs some wins to be taken seriously in the eyes of fans. I think, to a certain extent, Dean Ambrose is there too, because the fans are gonna He's got that persona, he's got that aura about him that fans want to follow, and
fans hang on every word he says. So I don't think he loses a lot by losing either. So I think they're both in good situations. I think a guy like Seth Rollins might be the opposite of that, where he needs some wins to really build up that credibility. He's not there yet to the point where he can start taking losses and recover from the from them and quickly.
Yeah. Yeah, that's a great comparison Bray and Seth Rollins. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. Bray can he can take a loss and then like five seconds later you're like, oh wow, I'm scared, you know, because he can do like you say, you can do the look, he can do some magic show thing that they can really hype and make it seem like it's a big deal and you kind of forgot that Ambrose won, but Ambrose still won.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a great contrast between the two. And you mentioned you know, maybe some heels who were on you know, sort of unsettling footing, they were a little bit shaky. It made me think about to Sorrow. To Sorrow, Greg lost clean sweep to Doves Nigger, but they gave Cin Sorrow a lot of offense. They gave him that memorable probably the spot of the night, the the sort of the the power lifts superplex from the second rope on ziggla just really nice move. Did he lose a lot?
Did he lose not that much? Was he about the same as coming into the show? How do you feel about Sosorrow coming out of this lose, you know, lost two falls, had all of the offense, did not get the title? How do you balance all that?
Sorrow didn't have a lot to lose here because he hadn't really been booked very well and so long he's the guy who could take the loss, not because he can recover quickly, but because he hadn't been built up much at all. So when you look at it from that perspective, I liked the booking of Ziggler winning two falls because Ziggler is a guy now, instead of the fifty to fifty booking where one guy wins a fall, the other guy wins the fall and then you know it's a slip out of an NFL finished, so no
one goes over. They put Ziggler over pretty strongly here, having him win two falls. As much as I like Cesorrow, I liked the Wwe had the balls to put Ziggler over in two straight falls and really not just put him over by having him win, but really putting him over, and you know, not a star making performance. Or anything, but it's one that he can build on. It's a building block for Dolph Ziggler at this point if WWE
chooses to see it that way. But it's an opportunity for him now because he did so decisively beat Cesorrow in this two out of three falls match, that he can use that as a stepping stone, uh in the future weeks.
Yeah, I just I agree with you. I just hope they don't come out of Raw tomorrow and have him lose non title to somebody, you know, just w bar you know.
Yeah, I have somehow some Sorrow gets a title rematch tomorrow and wins the title and it's like, well that was for.
Not and they were like, oh, I'm still up two to one falls in the last twenty four hours, you know exactly.
You know, it's like, how how could you now We're getting after w W for something they haven't even done yet, but it would like to Yeah, he gives to Sorrow a rematch. It's like, how did we get a rematch? He lost two falls to zero. It's very decisive. There's no question that he lost.
You know.
Yeah, You're like, uh, we need a title match and there's nobody else in the division. So Sorrow, I wa'n't you get in there get a title shot? Yeah, I'm with you. Yeah, so Sorrow should be out of the running and what you know, whatever that means, because they don't really they don't really have any rankings. They don't really hype some sort of you know, title chase. Maybe you know, maybe once a year that have a tournament.
But uh, yeah, so I'm with you. I think the Sorrow goes to the back of the fictional line and somebody else gets in the line for Siglar, whether whether it is a seth Rollins or somebody else along that uh, that level. It just it's so hard to find people at that level who aren't already in separate programs. So well, we'll see what happened with I just don't I don't know what happens now because it wasn't clean sweep, and you know, I don't see any way that so Sorrow
gets another title shot soon. It's just logically that shouldn't happen, So we'll see. But it was a good night for Sigular. It definitely was correct. Picture of the phone call. Appreciate it. Good to hear from you. Let's go to our next phone call, it's a seven seven three area code. Welcome to show seven seven three. Please see your name where you're going from?
Wyat?
I thought shot that was by White Yeah, with a magic tree? Bors? Are you there? Maybe that's Boris's contribution, is the sound effects? Bors? That are you their bors? All right?
Boys?
If you really are trying to call, I'm not just going to sound effects, hang up and call back inn. I'll put you back on after the next phone call. So if that was just what it was calling in for, I thought that was pretty funny, So I'll get props to Boris for that. The night right there, short, sweet and with a good sound effect. I know the main even finders, so I'll buy that.
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Next Up, three one four, Eric Code, Welcome to show three one four. Please set your name. Where you're going from.
From Saint Louis. What's up, guys?
Damn do you have any sound effects for us?
No? No sound effect. The only time effect on this wa network in the background. Well, actually I got it on mute this so I can talk to you guys. Check it out. Sounds good d on the self. I did see it tonight. Uh okay, you know I've obviously wasn't going into it with high expectations. I mean, yes, I do believe the undercard did deliver. I thought Ziggler and uh Sizarro was a great match. I actually thought Big Showan Russev was kind of cool. I actually thought
that Mark Henry was gonna come out. I was like, oh crap, it's gonna be a heel turned. But we didn't get that tonight and further them and of course seeing the Orton, of course, who can. I did like that whole little that little sign that they pointed to before Randy made his ring entrance, enjoy seeing the versus Orton number one twenty three or something I did. It
was it was hilarious. It's like, damn, they actually poking funded themselves because there's so many and I'll literally getting goll to try to have seen it Orton compared to all the great ribberies, not just some wa ae playing sports is history or you gotta be kidding me, right, okay, and so and then I'm gonna I'm gonna come.
Back to Damn. I want to pause on those because those are some good points. One, yeah, I don't know if definitely realized what they were zooming in on, Like the directors say, oh yeah, enjoy seeing Orton, and they like missed the bottom line was like number one thirty two or with one twenty one, And I was like, do they realize they just zoomed in on a sign poking fund and how many time to do this match? I thought I found that hilarious.
Uh, maybe maybe they thought this, maybe they thought the sign was not ironic at all, and that they really.
Met Hey, I'm gonna.
Enjoy Steena versus Our number one twenty three, Like, oh, here's a fan who really.
Is excited to see this match again.
Enjoy.
You know what, they're in such a bubble, they might think that people were excited to see that match again.
You know that's what I was thinking.
Yeah, yeah, you're right on Greg. And then the other point Damien brought up that I wouldn't mentioned, was I lost it? Yes, yeah, Mark Henry. Yes, so Mark Henry. I've been tweeting about this for like two pay per views, right, I thought Henry's gonna come out and cost the match. So I guess now they're just the point where they're having Henry. His presence is a distraction a Big Show, And to me, Greg is going to Italy one or
two things. Either Big Show snaps gets fed up with Henry and blast him, or he feels like Big Show blames him for losing and Big Show has kind of passive aggressive about and then Henry eventually finally turns on him. How do you see this, Henry Big Show dynamic sort it out? And then on the Russo side of the coin, where's this thing going? Do we have a person in mind, either on the roster or not the roster, who eventually would take down Russov.
I think it's gonna be John Cena WrestleMania. Well that's what I was gonna say. I don't know if they can stretch it out that far with Russev dominating that long without you know, trying to It's the same argument when Crimson was undefeated in TNA many moons ago, and he was on his undefeated streak and everybody was talking it up, and I'm thinking, Okay, why is he getting a title shot? If wins and losses are supposed to wins are supposed to earn you a title shot. Here's
a guy who's undefeated and he's running for everybody. He's not getting a title shot. I think it would be difficult for Russ to keep going through all these big stars in WWE, and how do you explain him not getting a shot at the title with all these victories. So WrestleMania as where I guess, But I guess the next possibility, if not WrestleMania, would be Royal Rumble, Big Show and Mark Henry. I thought Mark Henry he'll turned too.
But with Big Shows comments a few weeks ago about how he wants to do this alone and he wants Mark to kind of back off, and then Mark Henry coming out tonight and Big Show losing although he tapped. I think that could be the impetus for a Big Show too, as you said, become passive aggressive or maybe even turn heel. But it's still a toss up to me. I think it could really go either way. I think there's enough evidence on both sides to to argue and he'll turn for either man at this point.
Yeah, I wonder how long they're gonna stretch this out, you know, and then you know, Roussep, where do you go from? Like you said, he's one of these matches you think he's in line for a title shot. If that is the case, you know, does he go after Shamless, does he go after Dolls Ziggler? And if he does, if he win the title. I mean, I think we've all been kind of wait for him to go after
the US title. That would be the next logical progression with the whole Rushia versus USA thing and shame Shamus the Irish Man defending the USA. I guess I have to figure that one out. But I just Uh, yeah, I wonder where else they go with rosep until they get to if that's the case, Like you said, with Sina as a destination, that I mean, that makes the most sense in terms of how w usually books these
sort of things. Maybe not, so I'm like, oh, I would have somebody else be the one who finally takes on Recev because that that that's probably true. But the way they book is that the conquering hero is John Cena. I am curious if they can make it all with wrestle may that'd be interesting, Greg, if they can.
I think if they do, if they do what you suggested with Russev going after a secondary title and feuding with Shamus over the US title, for example, I think that would be a good way to stretch it out a few more months, because you've got Russev going after the title, then you've got him winning the title, then you've got him defending the title for a few months. But is he going to be wrestling John Cena as
the US champion. He still have to be champion to fight John Cena because you don't want him to lose the title and lose a match before he goes against Sena but he would have to be US Champion facing Sena, which I don't know how that would work without the title on the line.
I would assume.
It might have been one of those things where they ignore the title. They acknowledge the Russev's US Champion, but they never way acknowledge that he's not defending the title, you know, like it's just it's almost like.
It this is this isn't about the title. It's something It's about something much bigger.
You're like, oh, yeah, that that yeah, something like that, we've seen that before. Yeah, but yeah, I kind of have that same picture if they do go to Mania and if it's see Nui verus rousselve, let's say, receive is the US Champion because they've got a kid building and building building. Yeah, that's kind of have the same picture. That's just sort of like it's there, but they don't really acknowledge it. Yeah. Uh dam man, I cut you off there. Continue on your question of comment.
Oh, okay, no problem. I know you had to get that in, but also I wanted to just comment on, of course the finish. I mean, well, the whole Ambrose versus Violins match was a very good match, and I actually thought it was the match of the night. They actually did some really good spots, and then of course the finish chain. I really didn't understand everybody else has talked about that. I can just say that I didn't know what La was doing with that, and that's pretty much all I had got.
Keep it up, all right, David, We're gonna talk to you. I hope you call it on Thursday. We'll talk to you again later on this week or sometime again before the next paper, if you appreciate the phone call.
I got a question for you, if I can jump in first. Yeah, with his with as popular as Bray, why it is amongst a certain percentage of the fans. Are you surprised at how negative people have been about the finish to Rollins versus Ambrose, with why it getting involved, especially knowing that it's probably going to set up Whyatt versus Ambrose, which are two very popular wrestlers right now amongst that certain percentage of fans. Are you surprised at how negative the reaction has been to that.
Slightly? Yeah, because Bray is such a fan favorite. I think that what's trump that is that that sense sort of that that w you know, the smoking mirrors, that sort of silliness, you know, that just being way over the top of the hologram, and I think that turned people off. And then I think people I think what people wanted to see more than Bray White in a cool moment, which again may have not been a cool
moment because the Halo Graham thing, which was weird. I think people wanted to see Dan Ambrose beat Seth Rollins, or at least maybe not so much they want to see Dan Aubus be souther Owlands. They just wanted to see a finish to the match. You might have to debate which people wanted to see more finish or Ambrose winning. Kind of gets to another issue, but I think that the lack of a finish or the lack of Ambrose winning trumped anything that's, oh wow, you know, bray White's
in a MANIMN situation cool. I think they were more annoyed by I think we were more annoyed by the circumstances, not necessarily that it was Bray Wyatt, or not necessarily looking at it as oh, bray Whyatt's in a MAINVN situation now, more looking at like the circumstances of how the match ended annoyed me, and that Trump's that bray White is now in a position of many bit positions. So I think people more annoyed by how it played out more so than excited at bray White's in the
main event. That's I don't know if that made sense, but that's kinds the reaction right now. Is that kind of what you're sensing too, Yeah, I agree with that.
I guess I expected fans to be a little more excited about Why versus Ambrose, but I think you're right that fans are There's still that Daniel Brian memory of how he was jerked around with Randy Orton for so long, and I think fans wanted to see Ambrose finally vanquish Rollins and what better place to do with than Helena Sell and to not get a finish, I think what was the frustrating thing for a lot of the fans.
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And then there's more of the It's almost more of an annoyance with the booking, you know what I mean. It gets beyond man, that character is screwed over Ambrose. It's more like, man, why did we book that? You know, you're more annoyed by the booking taking you. It's kind of takes you out of the moment and then you completely or like, yeah, I don't even I don't even. I don't even care that bray White's the Maven position right now, you know, because you're so annoyed by the
booking more so than excited about bray Wyant. That's kind of what I sense people are feeling. And part of it is a Brian effect from last year, I think, also the recent non finishes and also Dan Ambrose beat on this neverending chase for seth Rollins. You know, this thing is a great great How long ago to the Shield break up? Was that? Was that after Extreme Rules? Was that when that breakup happened?
Maybe I don't remember it in terms of.
I wish paper it happened that. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna say extreme rules. I could be wrong, but Okay, that was like four months ago. And yeah, I think if people were expected.
That doesn't it does.
Yeah.
I think part of the Ambrose was off TV for a whole month after the cinder Block spot. So I think people are like ready for this to be over, and now it feels like they're gonna kind of put it on the shelf for a little while, and then as we're talking about the very top of the show, maybe they get back to it leading to wrestle media. Maybe that's when the blowoff is and well, and as you brob earlier in the show, Greg, we'll people have the patience and the memory and will people want to
see that when it happens. I don't know what to say how that plays out, but I think people more annoyed by the booking in the main event than excited about bray Wyant. That's kind of my feeling about it. That's kind of that's kind of what I felt about it too when it played out. Uh, but that's a great question. Let's go another phone call and next EPO is the two O nine area code Welcome to the show two oh nine. Please state your name? Where you calling from?
Hey, guys, you remember Eric from stock in California.
How's it going, Hey? Doing good to Eric, appreciate it. What's in your mind tonight?
Well, getting back to when the Shield broke up, they actually played a little video package before the Rowands and Ambrose match, and I believe it said April eighth was when the Shield actually broke up. I think that was the date that they had, so about six and a half months ago, give a cake.
I think I think that video was right after wrestle Mania when they were talking about the group, you know, all our best friends and all this sort of stuff, and then I think that so, yeah, that was kind
of confusing me too. Not confusing in the sense of like, like they the way they presented is kind of what you're talking about, Eric, is they presented as if they broke got up on April E's But that video was, in my mind was when they were kind of talking about how cohesive they were right after Wrestlemting, and then you know, they want to be match to WRESTLEMINGI or whatever it was. I don't remember I remember wrestling anymore.
It's been so long, but I think that was more about how cohesive they were, and then whenever that breakup happened was shortly there after that one, I think is the point they kind of rough. We were trying to make me. Yeah, I know what you're talking about, Eric, Yeah, but go ahead.
Okay, Well, I just said to comment in two questions. First to comment, I was watching the I was watching the pay per view on ROADKU three with contrasting, and I had a couple of a couple of hiccups during the bell of match, which really wasn't that big of a deal. It just kind of throw it just kind of throws on the loading screen for a couple of seconds and then went right back to it. So, I mean, other than that, it was it was perfect all the
way through. But my two questions is I'm one of the I'm one of the guys who is a fan of Barry Whitett. I just think his promos make you want to watch him, or at least make me want to watch him, kind of like back to where Jaco the Snake Roberts did. It just made you want to listen to him. He has that kind of tone about him to me, and I'm just I'm anxious about the Ambrose Wyatt fused because of the promos that the two can
act back and forth. I'm just going to the exchange between those two guys, and I wanted to get your guy thoughts on that potential, and then I had another question after that.
Sure, yeah, gregor to me, I think that the frustration with how the main event ended will be kind of like for tonight only. And then, as Eric brought up, once we get into the Ambrose bray Wyatt program, the promos, whatever whatever happens physicality wise, before before we assume they have a paper you match, I think people will then switch over to being excited about that you see. Yeah, I agree, that's sort of the you're looking for the
silver lighting come out of the main event. It is Ambrose and why I can have some promos and hopefully we're able to interpret them. There might need to be an intron involved, but it should make for smitter to say in television. So if look at that that silver lining, Greg, is that something people kind of can Okay, Sunday night this happened, not really thought about it, but Monday, I anticipate, Hey, this is gonna be a pretty good come out of this.
Yeah, and Nick Foley tweeted after the show, you know something to the effective for those who are upset about the finish of the main event. Just think of the promos that will take place for the Ambros Versus Wyatt feud. And I think there's something to be said for what you said about Tomorrow.
Night on Raw.
WWE has the opportunity to do something big to kick off Ambrose versus Wyatt that will get fans talking about that rather than still being upset about the finish of that rawand Versus Ambrose match tonight.
Yeah. Yeah, a great way of putting it. And what I mean, I assume we're going to promo unless they kind of do more of a more mystery and that that's a hard thing is do you want to go ahead and have that first promo or do you want to kind of carry over the mystery, the mysticism from the pay per view to Raw for the people who didn't see the pay per view and kind of introduce that to the main audience and then had a promo
week two. That's gonna be a big question mark for tomorrow or Tonight's Raw, is do they go into that first promo or do they just have Dean Ambrose and Dress Bray and then Bray's only response is more sort of smoking mirrors, So yeah, we'll kind of see how they handle that. Do you want to go ahead and just jump right in with that or already delay it until next week, so see what they do with that.
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Eric, I think you had another question of comments.
Yeah.
My other thing is it seems that WWE seems to be skipping between feuds more than usual now with Ambrose switching all of a sudden from Rawlins to Wyatt, and has seen a flipping from Lesnard to Rawlins to sort of Ambrose to Orton now back to Lesnar. I mean, it just it's I'm just wondering if it's another example of last minute rewrites by McMann or anybody else, or is this kind of a sign of panic with a lot of the top stars either being out of the company in punk or injured with Brian and Rank.
That's a great question. I think there's a lot of factors involved. Great I mean, what's your thought on though, I'll throw that to you first. What do you think about you know, as Eric Gast, is it just sort of circumstances or is it more decision making behind the scenes or some sort of other factors and combinations.
I think it's the lack of main event talent available right now. You sort of don't have a lot of options for John seen to the face. So he keeps going back and forth between the same guys, and that's what we see a lot of, whether it's a healer of babysas you just end up rotating back and forth between us select few guys who have gotten to the main events, because so few guys have been allowed to get over to that extent to where they're taken seriously
as main event talents. And even with Seth Rolinson, Deana Ambrose visiting the main events and newly minted main eventors, I guess you could say it's still there's still that John Cena, that Andy Yorton, even the brock Lesner, especially when now he's going back to John Cena. So there does feel like there's this rotation of okay scenes facing this guy this guy, and now he's gonna go back to this guy because there's just not enough other guys for him to rotate in with. So I think it's
the lack of top tier main eventors. And even a guy like Seamus, you know he's got the main event credibility, he should be a guy who's able to be rotated in and out with WWE. It seems like once you're in you're in forever, and they don't like to rotate guys into the main event and then pull.
Them back.
Short term.
You know, we've seen again Seamus has been in the main events, Dolf Ziggeler to a certain extent, has been a main eventor but when they were pulled back, they're still pulled back. I mean they didn't go back and forth, They went on up and then they went We've been back ever since. So I think that it would help if they alternated, say a guy like Seamus or a
guy like Dolph Ziggler. And I know I'm picking two of the secondary champions right now, but it would feel a little fresher on top if they were a little more willing to push some of these guys who are stuck in this mid card more ass and aren't able to get out. If they were able to push them to one or two main event pay per views or main event matches at pay per views, and then pull them back when they're not needed anymore.
Is there a way to do that without having to go through the authority is my question? And I think dolps Zigger kind of touched on this a little bit in an interview with the UK son leading into the pay per view where he almost kind of recognized that the main way to get the main event level is you have to be in a program with the authority.
And you look at you know, Seamus is in He's on the replay right now on the networks, he's in a few with Miss Miss you know, mid card at best kind of doing this comedy stick with Damian Sandel where Sandal's getting more over than Miz or Seamus. Uh so sorrows again mid card. You know in title, if you was Ziggler, Greg can Shamus can Ziggler? Can they get to that level you're talking about in any way other than having some sort of program with the authority? Is there any other way to do that?
Well, in theory, yes, but in execution perhaps not so much. I think the authority is sort of backed off a little bit from being so involved in making the top matches.
At least that's how it feels to me. But once you have an authority figure, and you've established these authority figures are the ones who make the matches, you kind of have to have everybody go through them or at least get approved by them, because they're they're not going to put you in a top match unless they've signed off on you on air, or they've had, you know, backstage segments with you, or you're somehow you've been pulled
into their orbit somehow. So I think that's the That's the bad thing about having on air authority figures wield so much power is that now you do get the feeling that nothing can be done without them signing off on it. And if adult Ziggler somehow makes it to the main event, the obvious question from the fans is, so did the authority approve this? Do they like Ziggler?
Now?
So should we booz Ziggler because the authorities letting him rise at the rank? You know, it's it's it's.
A little complicated, yeah. And then the lack of strong heels blow Orton, Rawlins or Rowins, Orton and Caine and you know Triple H non non wrestler or not in full time. You know, you would never see mows at that level. So you know Seamus, you know, like for Shamus and Ziggler, they're only gonna be at a certain level as good as the heels are going up against it. And I guess the number one to heal Greg outside
of the Authority is Russev. So it's almost like, yeah, if you want to get that level and you don't go through the authority, you kind of have to get in a program with Russev because he's on a trajectory to as we talked about earlier, potentially John Cena to WrestleMania. That might be the ticket for a Shamus or a Ziggler to get up there is with Rusev, which is kind of you know, number one, no one would have thought that four months ago, but no one else is
anywhere near that level. No one else is even protected at that level. Russev and the Authority. The only heels are protected. And even you know, even over Orton was not protected for a while there. Now he cuainly was because they had an event with John Cena this month. Uh So it's either they rebuild the roster, which they haven't shown any you know, desire to do that, or you kind of have to get paired up with the
authority and maybe Greg survivors here is coming up. Maybe they you know, kind of something like Seamus and Ziggler and and Ambrose as you mentioned, kind of holding off on an Ambrose versus Wyatt match. Uh, maybe you have
those three guys and another babyface. If if seen a lesson does not happened, then maybe it's Sena if not somebody else against you know, the authority as a way to get those mid cart babyface champions Shaane Misson Zigler into that into that orbit, into that era like you're talking about, where they actually be viewed as serious players, not just one of these guys kind of in the mid card matches every single month. But I don't know, I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't I don't know.
They haven't really shown any desire to do that, so I don't know. We'll see about that. Eric, good call, appreciate it, and let's go to our next phone call. Next up is the four three four eerie code. Welcome to show four three four. Please take your name where you're calling from.
This is Keith from Virginia.
Hey, Keith, what's your mind tonight?
Okay, forgive me if this comes off kind of random, because I'm just gonna sort of go through my thoughts on the show. Well, I don't know. If I'm the only person that doesn't like sand Out is act. I know he's uh, you know, a super talented guy and everything, but the whole thing just doesn't make any sense. Like Seamus is moving Mis around and and Sandow is you know, mimicking him, and it's supposed to be funny, but why
isn't he helping his friend? You know, why isn't he stopping Seamus from you know, embarrassing his friend and broke kicking him in the face. I don't really understand that.
Yeah, on that point, I'll come back to you, Keith, And I think that's a great, great topic. Uh yeah, that's that's the thing I had in the post match Greg, where uh, Seamus is kind of toying with both Mis and Sandow and you're like, well, I mean the implication that Sandal is so loyal to miss that he's going to you know, mimic everything that he does. But yeah, you mean he's standing right there next to him, and you're like, Okay, why wasn't Sandow just drop the act
and punch Seamous in the face? Like what? It's felt a little bit like they'd crossed the line into just as really absurd and ridiculous beyond the the the the you know, the the cute kind of trying to be a little cute with the whole stunt double thing. I'm a little bit more down on it than nothing a lot of people are. I think Greg, you might be a little bit more positive about it based on your
tweets than I am. I'm distracted by Sandow a lot during the match, and I think sometimes the act takes away some Sometimes I think the act is kind of cool. I mean, I liked I liked the spot where uh Seamus did the forums of the chest and Sanda was kind of there rocking, taking the the imaginary blows that Shamus was doing it during the match. I was okay with that, But I think in general I'm more distracted by his presence and and and and imitating ticking bumps
then I think he's helping. But that's my opinion. What do you think about Greg as far as overall to stand out, help, hurt, distract, benefit, enhance. What are his thoughts on that? And as far as as Keith brought up with the you know, not helping out, not helping out Miz.
I wouldn't try to waste too many brain cells finding logic in the Damien mized out character. I think that's when you just got to throw logic out the window and you either sit back and enjoy it for what it is, this absurdist commentary on movie stars, or you hate it for being terribly business exposing. Right now, I'm enjoying it, and I was laughing out loud at some of the stuff he was doing.
Like you said, the.
Forearms were great. A true stunt double knows his role and he played that role perfectly, and he may have been tempted to break character to help out the Miz, but that's not what the stunt double's role is, so he didn't do that. At least that's my logic behind why he didn't help MS. But you can't argue that he's more over now than he has been in a very long time with this character, and there's something to
be said for that. Even if the character is business exposing to a certain extent, he is over with the fans, so that's got to be worth something.
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There was one moment where he did break from it. It was when the match ended and mis got pinned and Sanda kind of wandered around the ring like gosh, frustrated, angry, and then he rolled back in the ring and then he started playing the Sun Double. So yeah, there was a little bit of a stretch there where they're trying to tell the story of you know, Sandal is still trying to be loyal to the cause, but he's still kind of his own person at times. But then he's like, Okay, yeah,
I'm still a Sun Double. So I can't believe we're analyzing this. This is I'm taking it really far analyzing it. But yeah, it is a little bit silly unless, like, as you said, you're able to look at it for what it is and what they're trying to do. So yeah, it's good. It's a good it is kind of in the eye had the holder with this one, and it is mid card. It's not meaning been. If it was something that mean event, I'd be very much against it. It's kind of midcard. It's more of a distraction for me.
But I'm not liking up arms about it. But I also see where Key's coming from that it is it can't stretch a little bit Kei's going with other thoughts.
Well, just to you know, extending that point. You know, I can get past it because you know it's a it's a chiory thing. But then you see some of these huge logic holes, like take being Ambrose. I think one of the biggest things working against him is the fact that, you know, people compare him the stone Cold and they compare him to the Joker. But the same people liked about Stone Cold and the Joker with the fact that they're smart. They're smart guys when it comes
down to it, they're clever. Stone Cold would get the upper hand because even though he was kind of impulsive and he had a temperate he could still out smart with Man and his cronies. Whereas Ambrose seems to fall
for every trick in the book. He gets distracted and he you know, he doesn't have focus and it costs him and he and it constantly makes him look kind of like an idiot, you know, like he's he's a loose cannon, but he's also you know, kind of film And that whole finish of the main event, I figure maybe bray Wyatt was out all that time because he was trying to figure out how to get a hologram under their ring. And he spent all that all that
time trying to figure that out. Why I don't understand why is it that Hell Want to Sell is supposed to be you know, this structure that's impenetrable that you can pretty much expect in experence in every Hell Want to Sell main event. It sort of defeats the purpose. But anyway, that's pretty much all I had.
Yeah, no great topics, Keith, Yeah, I mean I think right you and I kind of talked about, you know, is is bray Wyatt's you know, sort of magic tricks. Is that enough to kind of go around down the idea that you know, this is supposed to be held in the son no one should be able to get in. I think they kind of took some creative license with that, with this finish. I'm not saying it was the best use of creative license. It wasn't the worst I've seen.
It wasn't like Lockdown. We we seen the much, yeah, especially with teeny Lockdown, So I don't think it was the biggest issue I had was just the way it was executed, you know, with a hologram. I don't know what they're going for. I just I thought that was unnecessary. I think Keith brings up an interesting point though about is Ambrose, by not winning this match the presumed blowoff you would assume, you know, helling to sell it was
the ball off match. He didn't win it. We assume now that he's got keep going, going to WrestleMania perhaps or sometime soon it does Did he need to win this first, as Keith brought up, to show that he's not just reckless, abandoned and just this crazy guy, but actually he actually has some you know, he's got that cerebral mindset. We're should win a match where he when he needs to win it. Did they make a mistake with how they presented the finisher in that respect?
I think so, because I think we've seen Ambrose outsmart others numerous times. You know, he had the hot dog card, he had the spring, the green gack in seth Allins face out of the money in the bank briefcase, we saw him a peer out of nowhere behind Cethrollins in the crowd to attack him. So, I think Ambrose has done a good job of being in the right place at the right time and out smarting his opponents in
non wrestling segments. And I think the problem is he hasn't translated to the ring and he hasn't done it enough in matches to where it really feels ultimately effective.
Yeah, that's a great way of putting it is. Yeah, he's been able to outsmart the heels outside of the ring, but not really in there. Yeah. I think that's where I'll put in it. So I and I think that's why it's impative that he's got to win one of these big matches. Yeah, the next pay per view, whenever, the next big singles match he has. Is he not just DQ? We see a lot of DQ wins that'll they doesn't really count and the big picture of trying to establish this guy can win matches. Yeah, I think
he brings up a good point. I think that's that's a pretty good point. Puts the phone call, Keith. Let's go to our next phone call. Uh, six to three one area code drew up next six to three one. Please state your name.
MARIYCN from from Long Island.
Hey, Kyle, I'm gonna talk to you. What you mind tonight?
I was actually on Twitter and I told one Greg's comments was actually really and he pretty much said, like, it's a shame that they can't build the pay per view up because the pay view was amazing compared to build And I just want to get your opinions on that.
Yeah, I don't you know, I think we all agree, or most of us, at least you and I Gray, we agree with thumbs up show. Uh. I think these simplified things and told the second off of the show. But the first half of the show, they simplified things. They didn't have a lot of a lot of filler in the first half of the show. It was a pretty straightforward card. Good matches, some above average, some above expectations.
I just think because it was straightforward. I think TV they just overcomplicate things for whatever reason, any number of reasons. Is that how you felt about it? Too great? To see some other factor of why. At least at least the first half of the show really came out pretty strong and you're sitting there looking at raw and like, why why can't they do this on Monday nights.
Yeah, And that was my point, was that the raw TVs have been just very I didn't even want to say hit or miss. It's been miss or slightly non miss.
I don't know what other way to put it, but there hasn't been a raws and blown me away in a long time, and yet the pay per views they put out are consistently good, and it's just it's very frustrating to see that because that they know how to put on a quality program, a quality three hour event, and yet we get these raws that I'm not asking for raws to be pay per view quality or to have match after match after match like we see on pay per view, but the quality takes such a huge
dip when you're talking about TV, and it would be nice for that product to at least be on par with what we're seeing on pay per view.
I think they've got to remove a lot of distractions on Mondays. I think they're distracted. I think they're not focused. They're just something about Mondays where they just sort of lose focus and and they also don't have the long matches. Sometimes they'll have a couple of long matches and then they kind of padded out the rest of the show, you know, just sort of garbage and filler. And like you said, we're not asking them to have, you know, you know, just a pay per view series of matches.
But I think they've gotta, you know, be more focused, be more intentional about what they're doing, because we're seeing they're capable on Sundays at least for the last several shows, so they got it. I just think they just sort of distract themselves on Mondays for whatever reason, and the reasons you mentioned too, Greg, Kyle, did you have another question to fall up on that.
No, that's all good, guys.
Have a great night, all right.
Appreciate the phone call. I'll talk to you again later on the week, Kyle. Appreciate the call.
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Let's go to our last phone call tonight. This is from the six one seven area code. Welcome to show six one seven. Please state your name where you're going from.
Hey guys, this is Walter from Boston.
Hey Walter, what's you in mind tonight?
I have a comment and a question about the show tonight. I gave the show I think six and a half. I thought the positives actually the bellows were better than I expected they would be. But there were a lot of negatives to this event. The wrestling was good, but I really hate seeing a main event that took all those bumps that didn't have a real finish to it. And these guys have had a lumberjack match, a street fight,
now a hell in a cell. And when is the payoff going to be and how are they going to present that payoff? It doesn't make any sense. My question to you guys, well that was one question, But one other question to you guys is so the tacking division seems really weak right now, and where do you see it moving forward? And who can can be like new contenders for the tacking title.
And I'll hang up and listen.
Thanks guys, Yeah, good, good questions, Walt, you appreciate it. Good call. Let's show the tag division to about the tag match. Yet usso's lose again. We assume they're kind of out of the running. Uh, most matadors aren't really there, slater gators sort of on you know, Made Events Superstars level, Greg am I missing some tag teams here? Who else they have in that division?
No?
And I think what happens when this scenario pops its head up if WWE just tends to cobble together random mid carters who aren't doing anything and puts them in the tag division. So, you know, we can look at the tag division as it stands today and what it can look like a month from now is very different
based on where WWE decides to go. Do they call up the ascension, do they utilize you know some some yeah, some mid carters who aren't really doing anything right now, but can be teamed up as a you know, babyfaced team to face goald Us and start us at the next pay per view. So that's always a possibility.
And you mentioned the Ascension. They popped in my head and I was gonna ask you, this Ascension feels like kind of a heelish tag team. The Rhodes Brothers are kind of heels. It's a little bit murky. Can you introduce the Ascension as a default babyfaced opposition or I mean, I mean, I guess you could. Nobody really knows them out so that people watch the network. Or are they kind of a natural healed team where you're like, well, that's kind of an odd pairing. I just I don't
know how that would work out. They just brought the Ascension against the Rose Brothers.
What do you think, Well, I think what you'd want to do with the Ascension on the main rosters, what they had done, as sad as this sounds, I think you'd want them to wrestle in a series of squash matches on TV to build them up before you put them in the tag title hunt, and by the time they're ready for that, after they've established themselves in these squash matches, I think by then, maybe Goldenson started US
wouldn't be tag champs. Whatever Baby Faced team won the titles from them might be ready for the attention at that point.
M Hm, there was a couple of waytts, Harper Rowland. Maybe bray Wyatt's return leads to them returning, but then again their heels. I you know, I don't know. Maybe it'd be a weird matchup for a whatever reasons, Rose brothers against the wives, but I don't know it would be fresh, but it'd just be kind of weird. U And then Walter alsounds about the payoff to the Ambrose situation. Yeah, I mean, I thought this should have been the payoff, but I think they're gonna I think they're gonna extend
this again. We'll talk about maybe the WrestleMania maybe before that, but I think Ambrose gets that winnever rollins at either the end of this year or sometime next year. I thought it should have been here, but they didn't want to go that route. So I think it just sort of delayed. It's just sort of a delay. And then it just mattered can they get people interested again when they get to that payoff? And that's maybe a question mark, so we'll see about that. Uh yeah again Walters.
Walter's question and his point was that with the high spots in the match, those deserve to have a clean finish, and I think that might be why they did do all of those big spots is because they knew they weren't going to deliver a clean finish. Therefore, fans who maybe would have complained about the finish could at least look back on the match and say, well, we didn't get a clean finish, but man, they tore the house down when they you know, had the match and they
did all these big spots. I think that might have been the reason they did those spots was because they knew they were going to give them a clean finish.
Yeah.
I was kind of the argument last month for Lester and Senas I thought they had a pretty good matchup until the finish, and it seemed like they had a really they were trying to have a really strong, you know first, you know, ninety five percent of the match because they knew the finish was gonna maybe a little bit of upset and then kind of big picture on
this entire show. It seemed like Gregor, they had a really strong first half of the show because they might have known that people might not be a sort of aout the gonna after the show. So as long as we have a good first half for the show then made maybe people are a little bit more accepting of how the end of the show is gonna play out.
I certainly felt that way, especially when the show open was gonna clean sweep over so sorrow and that was really strong matchup, and then Sina order was really strong matchup and seen it once. That's gonna please that's that portion of the audience. So I thought there was some strategy involved in how they kind of laid out this show. It strotaly felt that way. But you know, now then if if that was the case, that's good. You know have you know, it's better than having a really bad show.
No one, you're gonna have a screwy finished the MEDIMN. So I will take a good half first half of the show any day of the week. That's uh, that's all the phone calls have got V happy members. The roundtable is up way Calibers Mitchell, Patman, Neil. That has been posted since we've been on the air, so you can listen to to their to their audio roundtable review of the show simultaneous to our show here in the postgame show at peterwe torchlivecast dot com. Uh, Greg, I
know you've got school in the morning. It's one o'clock your time. Final thaws and they also we haven't really touched on in depth that you'd like to mention before we wrap up.
No, just sums up show for me, probably sitting into seven right now, but that's that's what I'm thinking as of right now. I'll sleep on it, see if see if I wake up with the same feelings.
All right, Uh yeah, I think I'll probably add a six and a half. Yeah, I did probably six and a half, maybe a seven price six and a half, So yeah, we're all good in the same range there. I see Bruce Mitchell's round tap, he's out of six, So six or seven. I think that's a pretty fair range for this show. Pretty good show, just you know, didn't quite finish as strong as I think we would have liked. So we'll goe happens next month, and Greg,
appreciate you being with me on the live cast. Have a great week of school, and we'll talk to you again later on leading up until Survivor Series November. We'll see they put together for that show, so we'll see what happens there. Thank you all you guys for calling into the livecast. Appreciate you guys support of the show. Tuning again on Monday, Bruce Mitchell, Travis Bryant seven o'clock pm Eastern with the pre show before Raw, taking your phone calls on Raw, plus other topics of the news
on a Monday. So go at pwtorch dot com for the latest news and all kinds of news coverage from the world of wrestling include WT and A and other promotions. And I'll see you guys over there at pdbtorch dot com on behalf of torchcoms Greg Parks with Kids Up Bridges Planning is out. This is Torchstenator James called Wilson it Off for the live cast.
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