Now that we're in the thickest summer, you might be looking for wholesome, convenient meals to support sunny, active days, or you might just be looking for a quick meal the heat up for all the big summer pro wrestling shows that you're going to settle in four and watch at home. Well Factor is America's number one ready to eat meal kit, and they can help you fuel
up fast. With flavorful and nutritious ready to eat meals delivered straight to your door, you'll save time, eat well and stay on track for reaching your goals. If you're too busy with summer plants to cook but want to make sure you're eating well. With Factors, skip that extra trip to the grocery store, the chopping, prepping, and cleaning up and save money compared to delivery. Plus, you don't have to wait around for it, and it's
not greasy fried stuff that's cold by the time you get it. Factors fresh, never frozen meals are ready in just two minutes, so all you have to do is heat and enjoy and then get back outside to soak up the warm weather or settle in for a good meal while watching wrestling. You can stick to your wellness goals with premium ready to eat meals featuring high quality ingredients.
Treat yourself to thirty four plus weekly restaurant quality options like bruschetta, shrimp prosotto, green Goddess chicken, and grilled steakhouse filet mignon ready in just two minutes. There are vegetarian, vegan, and protein plus options depending on your diet choices. They also feature lunch to go options effortless wholesome meals like grain bowls and salad toppers that are ready to eat when you're on the goal,
no microwave required. They also have calorie smart meals with around or less than five hundred calories per serving, but the nutrient density will give you the fuel you need to get through the day. With Factory, you can rest assured you're making a sustainable choice. They off set one hundred percent of their delivery emissions, source one hundred percent renewable electricity for their production sites and offices,
and feature sustainably sourced seafood in their meals. So this July get factor and enjoy eating well without the hassle. Simply choose your meals and enjoy fresh, flavor packed meals delivered to your door, ready in just two minutes, no prep, no mess. I am a customer. I love Factor Meals. I enjoy picking the meals out from the selection each week and looking forward to
trying some new things and having some of my Factor favorites. So head to Factor seventy five dot com slash Wade fifty or use code Wade fifty to get fifty percent off. That's code Wade fifty at Factor seventy five dot com slash Wad fifty to get fifty percent off now. Pw Dorgan Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling podcast. Just over ten years ago, Jason Powell joined me on the play ship and we analyzed Total Divas. We analyzed what came
up as staged and orchestrated and what worked and didn't work. We also had thoughts on Raw Sid Warrior, Chris Saban, TNA, Daniel Bryan, and a lot more. We had live callers and email questions throughout throwing topics and questions and thoughts our way. We're a little behind, so we're jumping back to the July thirtieth, twenty thirteen episode just over ten years ago, and it is today's wad Keller Pro Wrestling podcast ten years ago Flakeship flashback for Sunday,
August thirteenth, twenty twenty three. Welcome to the p wtrch Livecasts. I am Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter, published every week in paper format and now digital format fifth nineteen eighty seven. Also pwtorch dot Com since nineteen ninety nine, and now the pw Torch apps on iPhone, Android, Amazon Kindle, Fire, Windows phones and Samsung Smart TV's and DVD players from the twenty twelve and twenty three years twenty thirteen,
i should say model years and now host of the pwtrch livecast. We heard five days a week. I host on Tuesdays and Fridays. We have been on every weekday since the end of two thousand nine through today. We have not taken a holiday off or a six day off. We are here Monday through Friday with an array of guests, array of format, and we also have special shows that follow pay per views. On the Sundays when there are
pay per views. Half hour after the show ends, you can go to pwtorchlivecast dot com and listen live to a call in show reacting to the just concluded pay per view, and you can as always go to pwtorchlivecast dot com and find either a live show if it's in progress on a weekday, or all of our archives, including the latest episode on demand. Since it is
Tuesday, July thirty, twenty thirteen. Since it's Tuesday, it is Jason Polo progressing dot Net joining me as co host Jason Welcome, Hey, great to be here Wood, Good to have you or great to have you? I didn't want to you know, you say it's great to be here, and I say it's good to have you. It sounds kind of rude. Yeah, I was over. It's only good to be here. It's it's all good, Okay, it's all good. See that. Yeah you're a favorite. Yeah, no, it's it's not that I don't like it.
It's just when people say it, they generally are meaning sort of the opposite, like they have reservations about it, but they're they're willing to be bigger than their feelings. They're willing to express that they're more more okay, and
they really feel I'm trying to get over it. They're holding a grudge, but they won't admit it then that that kind of sums up how I feel to it, because I know if you talk about a raw that was taped, like you know, six days ago or six days before it aired, and yeah, it's kind of here, but but did you but did you see Total Divas? Of course I did, so we don't have to talk about Raw. We got a whole hour to talk about Total Divas. It's
all good. We do welcome phone calls from our listeners. We're gonna go to them quickly. The number to call is six four six seven two one ninety two eight. By the way, the show airs live at five thirty Tuesday through Friday. We are on the air right now five thirty Eastern two thirty Pacific time for an hour or so at Pwtorch livecast dot com. So you are absolutely free to join us live and call on any of these weekdays. On Mondays, the show airs in the hour before Raw. But yeah,
we welcome your phone calls. I really want to know what you thought of Total Divas. I think it'll be somewhat generational what people think, and just kind of personality based. I think there's some people who will like it, some people who will hate it, others will be somewhere in between. Jason and I'll talk about that and then we'll go to calls. I do want to get into quick plugs one. I don't mention this all the time, but we do have a free email alert service where every day we tell
you what the top five stories of the day were the previous day. We send those out so that they're waiting for you in the mailbox in the morning. And also breaking news alerts. If there's major news, will do a special email. And if you've got your smartphone set up where you know you get alerts when you get emails, you can be kept abreast of the major stuff going on when major news breaks, and also just be caught up on the top five stories from the previous day if you didn't make it to the
website or the app to keep up on things. To sign up, it's free, just go to pwtorch dot com slash email and we use a reputable third party service for this. You can subscribe and unsubscribe at any time with just a click. It's not gonna be a spam type situation or anything like that. So pwtorch dot com slash email, no reason not to Just do it right now while we're talking, Go log in and uh and sign up.
Just sender your email at all and you'll be on our list. Second of all, yesterday we did a soft launch of a new venture for the PW Torch brand, and that is the PW Torch YouTube channel. We've been working on this and talking about it for a while, and yesterday we took it live. You can go right now to YouTube dot com slash PW torch and look at some videos or listen to some audio with some graphics going along
with it. Three of the recent PW Torch livecast interviews are now accessible on YouTube through or four of them, and also two snippets from v IP Exclusive aftershows. The only people who have heard these otherwise have been VIP members, and now we put up a couple of snippets, one from last Friday which is just hilarious. After Dan Madigan, a former WWE creative team member,
was on the show last Friday for well over an hour. We did along vi IP aftershow also, and in that VP after show he talked in depth about some of Vince McMahon's quirkier traits and there is a burrito story that if I'm ever sad, will make me laugh and if I just think of it again, and a lot of other kind of weird things about fennsc Man, just crooky things. So anyway, you can get a snippet of that. It's about a four to five minute snippet with some with some slideshows of pennsic
Man in the background. And that again was a VAP exclusive, so you get an idea of what you're missing if you're not a VP member. And then also a clip of the Bruce mitchelaudio show from Sunday where Bruce and I
had a lengthy discussion and this was fun. Who was the worst main event or of the past couple decades, you know, really of the nineties if we just focus in on it, Ultimate Warrior or Sit in terms of in ring work as workers, as respected by their peers, versatile in the ring, producing good matches, being believable in what they do, having an array of moves, just you know, all is selling for their opponent, all
of that. And we debated or discussed we don't really debate, but we discussed sid or Warrior, and a good chunk of that conversation about ten twelve minutes of it is available at Peter Youtorch dot com, slash YouTube I'm sorry, that's backwards, YouTube dot com slash PW torch, and if you go to YouTube dot com slash PW torch and look for the vinsc man clip I'm sorry, the SID Warrior clip, you can hear part of the Bruce Mitchell
Audio Show. We did about two and a half hours of VTP exclusive Bruce Mitchell audio this past weekend and most of it was answering VIP member questions in depth. We have a lot of people who enjoy the ASPW Torch feature on the website. If you enjoy that a lot, and we just get great reviews for it, you really will enjoy the in depth, long form answers we give to big topics on the audio shows, including the Keller hot Line.
I do that format on the Daily Keller hot Line a few times a week, and Bruce Mitchell does it quite often on the on the Bruce Mitchell Audio Show. So this will give you a little taste of that with the Sid Warrior discussion. Plus there's some fun vintage Ultimate Warrior and SID pictures from
my expansive eighties and nineties and two thousands photo collection. I took a lot of photos in the late eighties through the nineties, especially all over all over the country, and took a lot of a lot of photos from ringside and the front row and at special events. And so this is a chance to kind of see some cool uh cool side shows of Ultimate Orior and Sid and vinsc Man at different incarnations, plus some of our exclusive art our commissioned art
from our PW Torch artists. So wanted to give that a plug again. That's YouTube dot com slash PW Torch. Also, please subscribe because we need to get to one thousand subscribers to our YouTube channel. YouTube as a bunch of channels now people can set up their own channel. That's what we've done, and if we get to one thousand subscribers, it unlocks some features that
that YouTube reserves for people who have at least a thousand subscribers. So if for no other reason than to help us unlock those features, go to YouTube dot com slash PW Torch and click subscribe on that on that page. All right, I wanted to get that out of the way early. Jason, Let's do some brief thoughts on the Total Diva show, and then let's go to phone calls and let the callers steer us through the next few minutes or so. Total Divas sumbs up, thumbs in the middle, thumbs down,
or is it just too complicated to classify that way? You know, I think it actually might be the latter way, But that's what I'm thinking too. It did. I had no expectations for this, and so I guess when it was over, it kind of just the hour went by, and it was definitely a reality show with you know, very contrived scenes, and people will probably look at this and who know the wrestling business, and a lot of them will think, well, it's just wrestling doing what wrestling does.
But I mean it's more like, no, that's what reality television producers do. There was I mean, just little things like the costumes not being ready for WrestleMania. Uh, you know, there were supposed to be supposed to be eight people in that match that was canceled and we only saw the women and their reaction to it. I don't know why that would be. There was just a lot of little things like that that jumped out at me. In Italia finding out that she didn't have a WrestleMania match at FanFest on
WrestleMania weekend. Yeah exactly, like like was she really holding out hope with the whole whole? I mean, that was the most egregious, just ridiculous eye rolling moment of the show is Jane Getty's pulling on Natty aside and going, we got some bad news for you. It's twenty four is before the show. You haven't been announced for a match yet we filled up the lineup. You are among the vast majority of the divas who do not have a match, and we hate to break the shocking news to you, but we're
not adding you to the lineup at the last second. Like that's I mean, it just was so contrived. And Natty Daddy's great, you know, I mean, I just it's it's great. She's she's the glue that holds a lot of matches together. She's got you know, she's a I'm glad that she's made it to the main roster and has had a job for a number of years. She's not a good actor, and it's really noticeable now that the worst actor in professional wrestling backstage skit history as far as Females go,
Beth Phoenix is gone. It's more noticeable now because Natty has moved to the top and and her acting is not good, and they're in this reality show. They're leaning on her acting, and you know, and I don't think it's awful, but it's it's it's there's moments where she just kind of makes a cartoon faces or holds the post too long, and it's just not she's just not a natural act. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just
when she's put in unnatural situations, it's kind of corny. Just like last night on Raw, you know, she kind of held her pose and made a cartoon face and reaction to at the end of her skit. Thank you for subscribing to the Waight Keller Pro Wrestling podcast and wad Keller Pro Wrestling post shows. Don't forget we got a whole lineup of other shows called the Pwtorch
Daily Casts. It's free. Just search PW torch in your podcast stapp a different show on a different topic throughout the week, including shows dedicated to a e W n x T MMA Ring of Honor and more. Just search PW Torch in your podcast stapp or check out links to the latest shows at our main website, pwtorch dot com. So that doesn't help either, James. And then you know, they didn't exactly pick the best factor, but I you know, but but it so, yes, you're right, there's a
lot that's contrived. And but he keeps you guessing. I mean, I guess I think that's kind of part of the fun for me watching it, and maybe for you two is Okay, what here rings true? You know what here has happens? Then it's caught on film, but it really happened, and what else is just orchestrated or staged? And I guess that's kind
of part of the fun of watching the show. It, I mean it, I guess it wasn't the hour went by it I didn't sit there just shaking my head at the end of this thing, going my god, that killed the business or you know, and that was a fear or maybe not killed a business, but it would be that it would be much worse than it was. I guess it. I guess one thing that threw me off way is what did the Bellas talk like before the Kardashians came into national the
national spotlight? Because even on a reality show, they still talk like teenage girls. I'm kind of embarrassed for them. Well, I don't think I've ever seen the Kardashians, even though I hear them on a daily basis. That's just it. Yeah, I've never sat down and watching an episode, but I certainly know what they talk like. And it's annoying. And I know it now because every teenage girl out there seems to talk. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, this is uh WWE corporate, this is
Stephanie McMahon. They they have wanted and this gets into the Psychie and mcmanns. And part of this is just, hey, if you're a big wrestling company and there's you're part of the you know, big cable TV network and universe, you're gonna want to find opportunities to expand what you do. And you know, I mean, it's it's fine for cross promotion all that, But part of this is the McMahons have desperately wanted to prove that they are
not just pro rattling, that they're more than that. And I mean that's just gone. That goes all the way back to the mid eighties with Vince mcmah with you know, Liberacci and Muhammad Ali and Jane Fonda and you know, I mean all the celebrities that they brought in. They want they want WWBT part of mainstream pop culture, and this does help accomplish that, you know. I mean there was MTV week in like nineteen ninety nine, back during the Attitude era. I mean, it's not like WWB hasn't been on
other channels and tried to cross promote before. I think it's natural when you have the Bellas and some of these personalities, you have some stories that you can tell in the reality format. So in that sense, I think it's a natural fit. I'm with Travis Bryant more. I'm with Travis Frank quite a bit in terms of what he had to say on yesterday's live cast with Bruce that as long as you know what you're getting into and you understand the genre, it was kind of you know, like just you know, TV
candy, It's just it's junk food. It's not to be taken seriously. But I don't think it did enough damage. I think it's funny that, you know, remember Shane Shane Douglass had to become Dean Douglas because Shane McMahon. You know, he couldn't have another Shane. We've had things like that before, William Regals or Stephen Rigal became William Regal because of Steve Boston and so like, they don't want to have if you're a top person, they
don't want to have somebody else with the same name confusing things. So is that why John John is Jimmy? Usso like, because everyone's why would he go from why would he hol him up jim if his name is John? And I just I'm kind of assuming it's because they didn't want other John on top. But that's one of those weird things when you're watching the show, if you're a casual fan and you're like, well, that's weird. Why
why is he Jimmy on TV? If his name is John? It's not like you know, seeing Kara where you're like, okay, obviously it's kind of a stage name. Why would you just go from one common name to another? Well, and I still think if you're a casual, if you were watching or you're gonna wait a minute, why is why are the two most popular guys dating the two most evil divas? I know, well,
I mean I and I've ranted about that in the past. I do think that's not great watching the show and in the way it played out, I I mean, they're kind of getting away with it. I'm I'm not I don't have a rant in me. I don't feel as much outrage as I thought I would. But it does it. It is there, and it does hurt, especially John Cena, you know, hustle, loyalty, and
respect. They work on protecting his image, and it's may coition to have him dating one of these women and who are portrayed as normal people who who have a you know, a little bit of like you said, I guess the Kardashians in them or something. But they don't come across as just evil and nasty, just a little territorial and a little caddy. But they're not like awful, horrible people on the show. So in the context of the show, I don't think somebody who doesn't watch WWE would go I thought John
Cina was a good guy. Why is he dating this horrible, awful woman. But at the same time, if you watch the WWW product that the presumption when you're watching the show is this is an expose, not an expose. But this is the narrative is different here that they are not in character
and you are getting to see how things work. And that's one thing that I thought worked about the show, for all the flaws and kind of contradictions in certain ways and orchestrated skits, is that it was kind of fun to go behind the scenes at Russomania. I mean, I think that they timed it out well where we got to have the nerves of the biggest show ever and the huge crowd at MetLife Stadium and the sense that WWE is a big
deal, and I think WWE liked showing that to another audience. That's part of the McMahon introriority complex that they're in the wrastling business is at least they get too exposed to people just watch an e who tuned into the Kardashians and stuck around for Total Divas, which half the audience did they get to see, Oh Wow, this w is a pretty big deal and it looks like it's a pretty you know, it looks like a pretty smooth, corporate,
Hollywood type environment behind the scenes. Yeah, And I am thankful at least for this week that there was no major crossover and we had the awful duck call finish to the match, but that was I don't it wasn't really inspired by anything on The Diva's show. It was rather inspired by Natty being built the ugly duckling of the show. But it was also pre taped. I mean, you know, they obviously know what they're going to err on E so I am curious to see next week. Is this just how it is?
It's like, yeah, they're going to acknowledge it, they're going to push it, but you're not going to see a lot of like storylines blended together from Total Divas making its way to RAW. I mean, I hope not. If it's just kind of we're gonna acknowledg the show. We're gonna push it. But what you see on there is different than what you see here on RAW. That's fine, do you think? And I'm getting a lot of email questions on this and you probably are too. Is Daniel Bryan
and the main event of Summer Slam because of the show? And are the USO's getting a push for the last several weeks because of the show? Who you know, I don't know the answer beyond I wish. I mean, I think Daniel bron I leaned toward no. What Daniel Bryan, I don't think it hurts him to beyond to be involved in this, this project you're doing with me. But I think the crowds were kind of dictating he climbed
the ladder. I mean, it didn't have to be SummerSlam, but the Usos, I mean, fairly wwe needed a baby Face tag team, but it and their options were limited. But I guess just because they've I mean, they've needed a baby Face tag team for a while, I guess you had Kane and Daniel Bryan, but still, you know, I guess I leaned toward no in both, but I get it. I don't feel strongly
about it. I think the Ustos probably are getting a renewed push because of the show, a stronger push than they would be getting if they'd beginning to push at all. I just think, Www, saw this was on the pipeline. Obviously, it's been on the pipeline for months, and if the
Ustos are going to be a big part of the show. You know, it's not like a huge deal, but might as well push the Ustos now, you know, I mean, it's they're just kind of on stand by at any point any take teams on stand by to get a push for a month or two or three, and I think they just kind of thought, yeah, yeah, we can push the thusos now, let's do that, you know, let's give them a good push still by the time the show,
where as people don't just see them as total job ors. You've got jb all going, these are inevitably future Take Team champions, blah blah blah. You don't build them up. I think I feel stronger about that with Daniel Bryan. He could have been doing He doesn't have to be feuding with John Cena or not even fuding but sort of you know, they're building tension between them. But he doesn't have to be a Summer Slant main event or
to be a really relevant character on the show. And and if Brian was not in the main events the SummerSlam but instead was feuding with whoever, you know, another top guy, Elbertodo Reel right now or something just to grab
a name, it's still work. The show still works. So I don't think people should think the only reason Daniel Bryan's in the main event of SummerSlam is WW wants to help the total Deva show vincct Matt is not going to sacrifice SummerSlam in order to maybe draw an intangible, unmeasurable number of extra viewers because Brian seems more relevant as a main eventor you know, I think they.
I think it's a happy coincidence more than it's some Well, I don't want to push Brian to the main event, but we better in order to help total Diva ratings, right, and even with the U shows, I mean, hey, the funk of Ackles are a big part of the show, and they've worked some somedachers, I guess, but it's not like wwe really gave them a boost going into this show on their normal product. Absolutely no, You're exactly right, exactly right. So anyway, interesting stuff.
Do you remember when Hulkogan shot the world or form the New World Order, or when stone Coat Steve Auston passed down and the Sharpshooter to break the hit Man Hart. I'm Torch contributor Frank petty Any and I've reviewed these shows and
many more for my exclusive VIP podcast, Pro Wrestling Than and Now. Together with a rotating chair of co hosts, we go back ten, twenty, even thirty years review pay per views from top to bottom, talk about where the wrestlers were at the time and compare what took place then to what is taking place now. You get exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part of your pwtrch VIP membership, which is compatible with the Apple Podcasts app.
Visit pwtorch dot com slash go vip for details and sign up for Let's give a phone calls and see what callers have to say about last night or Sunday Nights Total Diva Show and if you certainly want to talk about Row, you can. So I remind people that Jason Powell and I on our respective websites on the membership side of things, do in depth reports on RAW in audio
format. I don't know how long yours was, Jason, I did thirty or forty minutes last night after Raw posted that in in depth rundown on the show with my thoughts on basically every segment I have had thoughts on, and that's available to vi IP members late Monday night, and obviously you know Tuesday
morning and you did the same thing. So people who are craving ore in depth segment by segment raw report, we'd be a little redundant for our members, So if you're craving that, it's best to become a member of Progressing dot net or a member of my website PW torch dot com. So we'll give membership information later. So if you're looking for us to run down everything on raw, you're probably better off becoming a member. But I'm sure we'll
cover a decent amount of thanks to callers and emails. By the way, if you're listening right now and can't call the show, but want to set us an email question or send us a question to answer either on the live show with the v IP after show, you can send that to Pwtorch livecast at gmail dot com. And you can also send questions in ahead of time. If you're going to listen to the show on delay but you have a topic you think we should address or you'd like us to address, you can
always send it to Pete W Torch Lifecast at gmail dot com. Jason, did you hear from Pat who his guests going to be Wednesday? I don't think I did. He will have Johnny fair Play discussing the total d of a show and he that's good. That's a good idea and he walsho have Michael Kingston, the author of the Headlock comic series. Oh awesome, Okay,
I like the fair play idea. Actually that's a really good Uh, that's really good timing talk about, you know, the way reality to be produced, and he's part of that world and follows it, so yeah that i'd be Really that's actually a really good tag on why is Pat telling you who his guest? Is it not me? I think he calls me on Tuesdays as like the backup plan, like if he if he tells you and you forget, and then there's always me and I should hope that I don't
forget, and Lord knows I forget most of the time. All Right. That's that's that works. That makes as much sense as anything that works. It works out, you know, you get to break the news on the show. Yeah, it's one of those rare times because usually it usually works out where if you remember it's and it's the one time where I know, and I'm all excited and then you just kind of ran on my parade by who it is. So it doesn't happen often that I get to do this.
So I feel pretty good today. We do not. By the way, I have a guest line up for Friday's live cast yet. Bruce Mitchell will be at the mid Atlantic Wrestling Convention this weekend. There's a possibility that he'll be joining me live on the show to talk about the convention, and maybe lining up a couple of guests at the convention to be on the show live. We may also go in a completely different direction with it too,
so it's that is up in the air. Last Frida, though Dan Madigan x ww Creative Team member in two thousand and four, he wrote See No Evil. He was a screenwriter for that show. In the VP after Show, we not only talked about Svincent Man's quirks, but also his thoughts on the progression and or lack there of, I guess, just the whole direction
of the movie division. Since he was the one who was a screenwriter for the first movie in WWB Studios history, his thoughts would be interesting to get his thoughts on it is it was interesting, I should say, to get his thoughts on the progression of the movie division. That was also in the VAP after show. But you can hear the first hour plus for free at
ewtorchlivecast dot com. That is also the website to go to to get the RSS feed or subscribe and iTunes or any All the key buttons are on that page that you need to follow us on social media and that kind of thing. All right, Jason just got ratings in right now for RAW. I don't know if you have you seen the ratings of viewership. I've seen viewership yep, so a viewership down a little bit from last week. The rating
came in at two point nine. Last week it was also two point nine, but this week they rounded up. We rounded up to get to two point nine. Last week it rounded down, So I went from if we pull it to the hunter spot. Last week was a two point nine four, this week a two point eight seven. It was the fifth week. It was a five week low for the show, and young male demographics tuned
out big time. I'm not sure why that would have been the case, but it was number four in cable overall, number one and all keymail demos, but just did not do well as well among mail demos compared to recent weeks. Hourly ratings peaked in the second hour with three point nine million viewers. It did three point seven in the final hour three point seven essentially almost in the first hour, but the third hour did better than the first a
year ago. This was the week after RAW one thousand, so they had some momentum because that really popped a rating. But last week they did a three hour RAW that did a three point zero eight ratings, so they're down, you know, two tons of rating point from from a year ago. Jason, your interpretation of that, I mean, do you think the I mean, with it used to just be a you kind of just dismissed the idea that pre tape shows and the spoilers getting out there would have an effect.
But you kind of have to wonder away. I mean, they've they've been doing okay lately, and to see a drop like this, I think the first time they were under four million viewers for the entire show average it since like June first or something like that. I wonder if it had not a obviously a widespread effect, but maybe some people tuned out as a result of and I already know what happened. Yeah, I still don't think it's
a huge number. I mean, I if I had to guess, so someone just said, tell me what you think the differences in terms of live ratings. You know, a live show versus a pre tape show. What effect does it have on ratings? I would say at two point eight seven becomes two point nine one, Like I just I mean, and I'm even hesitant to go that out. I maybe four one hundredths of a rating point.
I mean, I just half a tenth of rating point. I just don't think it's I just I just don't think most people know, and those who know are don't care because they're in the habit of watching it anyway. And I don't know how much of what people I don't think people tune into Row to be surprised. I think they tune into Row to be entertained for
three hours. And the people who read spoilers probably are the type who are such hardcore fans that they want to see what they're gonna watch on They want to read about what they're gonna watch on Monday, because the wouldn't miss it for the world, because they want to see all these matches and they want to see, you know, Daniel Bryan in jensic Mann in their confrontation. They want to see the right back tables match with se so I don't know.
I my thought is still not thinking it's very significant, that's fair enough. It just man, I don't know. Watching that show last night, it was normally I don't get that bad when it comes to the tape shows, but it just felt I don't know, nothing felt like it mattered to me. Even everything just kind of felt like it was on hold. Even though they tried a little bit with Mince McMahon and Daniel Bryan was on hold.
Yeah, and they did the kid. I think they threw some nuggets Kane and the Wyatts, Daniel Bryan and Vince and uh and then you know, a nice tables match, you know, a nice tables match at the end. But everything else was like these five minutes sound bite matches where everyone's kind of going through the motions a little bit. You didn't have that just really good standout match, and you didn't have a long Paul Hayman FROMO.
So yeah, yeah, just it was middle of the road. I didn't dislike the show, but I was well, I didn't feel any I didn't really feel much passion for it, but I thought I got enough at the beginning and the end of the show to keep it from sinking. Into a thumbs down. Yeah, I'm with you there. Yeah, all right, Well let's go ahead and uh go to phone calls. Eric Code. Have we not taken a call yet, Jason, No, we haven't. You know. I said we're gonna get calls right away, and we're almost halfway
into the show and I haven't got no a phone call. Those that darn total divas show. All right, let's let's rucalls Eric Code six one four and then on up on DAK six five four. State your name and where you're from, Jamal from Columbus, Ohio. And I am glad that you finally games phone calls. I'm glad. I'm gonna be aft member too. All right, cool, well, I'm glad you're glad. All right. Two things that I noticed last night watching Raw, and I wanted to get
your perspective on it. When I saw the Zigler and Biggie match, I found myself being more impressed with Biggie just how Biggy is, how he's able to move around and keep up with Zigler, and watching it, I was just wondering, do you think there's more upside the Biggie than there is mister Siggles, Because I'm not convinced that he's gonna really live up to I guess what everyone's saying that he's gonna be. I'm just I just hadn't bought it.
He just seems like he's gonna be like the mist the perfect, the utility play it out, never reached the I guess, the main event level, but we'll be in that in between that can bounce remain event but more mid card. Yeah, that's the ones to know your perspective on that. No, it's it's a good topic, Jason, take it first, then
I'll reply. I still think there's more upset with Dolph Ziggler. I think that Dolph would be heal World Champion right now had it not been for the injury and WWE opting to shake things up, and because of that, it's going to take some time for him to develop as a baby face, and slowly but surely he's getting there. And Langston, I just don't know that he's the priority right now. I think that the emphasis is going to be
on Dolf more than Langston. Hopefully they can get him over in the process here, but it just way it looks to me like unless they decided to really drag out the program between two that this is about elevating Dal's Ziggler more than than Langston and show just because of that. I think it's going to take a little more time, and Langston is just going to be a guy that is kind of hanging around for a while. Yeah, I mean, I don't I see where Jamal's coming from. And I and saying that,
I still think deal Ziggler will have Let let's put this. I think deal Ziggler will make more money in the next eight years than Biggie will, if that's how we measure star power. I think Ziggler will be part of more big time matches and make more money and be in the main events more than Biggie. But that's not to say that Biggie won't be a millionaire by the time this is all said and done. Either a multimillionaire he could. I
think there's something there. I'm not one hundred percent sold on it yet. I need to see more to see if he can get to the I don't see for sure it factor with him yet, but there's a lot of other pieces that are there that are above average, so we'll see. It's just I'm all wait and see. With Biggie with Ziggler. I just I see greatness in the ring. I think he's not given awful scripted promos and unnatural one liners and jokes to read that there's there's something there for sure on the
microphone that just it's I won't say it's untapped, but it's not. It hasn't matured. They haven't figured out how to how to direct his sense of humor yet and the way that he talks. But he's a guy that I would unleash and not have as tethered and scripted as they do, because when he's on color commentary and he just acts like himself, he's more entertaining. But we just Jason, we just don't know who del Figgler is right now. He turned babyface and lost all momentum, and it's just he's stalled as
a character and that's part of it. But we can't ignore how good he is in the ring and that that can make a difference in at the way WWW promotes today. And so that's why I still think there's there's more hope for him, even though it's been a really rough month. I invite you to email the show with feedback or questions. Or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch
dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. You can follow us on Twitter at pw torch and follow me at the Wade Keller. That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller. Exactly when I think they made the right call and not just putting the you know, having him quickly beat del Rio and getting his title back because he was injured and all that, I think you tell the story with him, you let people take to him as a baby face before you go there. And as far as Biggie goes, can
they please get him some new gear because I really didn't. You know, we had a wardrobe malfunction the week before and I saw way more of that man's backside than I needed to last night. Very good, Jamal, appreciate the call, and I also appreciate your VP membership very much. Let's keep your own through calls here and go next to six fives, promise, and then after that two eight, one, six, five, Oh, please state your name and where you're from. Hi. Wait, this is Dante
and San Francisco. I first need to apologize. I called him yesterday and spoke to Bruce and at this and then after the phone call, I realized I had not identified myself. So the chat room was up in arms about it. That's on Bruce and Travis, you are a show. That on me too. I was. I was wowing Bruce with my appreciation as deep wrestling knowledge. So I can't really offer anything about Total Divas because I just have no interest in the show. I literally have no interest in watching this
show. Though I will point out that I'm impressed by the two divas called Aj and Caitlin. I think that they're constantly improving as wrestlers, and I, you know, it's funny there's no focus on them whatsoever. Will they even be on the show? I have no idea. I just kind of find it ironic. So in terms of your comments about Sid being dead and a warrior, yeah, I think that's a pretty tough one. That those
guys are pretty bad. But I want you to think back to a clash of the champions long ago, back in WCW days, when Sids faced the night Stocker. That's not one that was a terrible match, No, no, but that's but that's not my my criteria. And again this you can listen to Bruce and me discussed this that YouTube dot com slash PW Torch.
There's a twelve minute clip of us there. In short, though, my rationale is Sidd's best ten matches we're better than warriors ten best matches, But Warrior's best match or two was probably better all taking everything into consideration than Sid's best two matches. Even though Sid had a passable match with Shawn Michaels for sure. You know, Warrior had a historically good, dramatic match against Whole Cooke and in part because it was built up so well, it was treated
as a big deal. The the whole pomp and circumstances were great, and then the pinfall finish was just you know, jaw dropping for that moment in time. So so that is a that that just blows away anything Sid was ever involved in. But they both you know, as as Bruce Mitchell said in the clip that's at YouTube dot com slash PW Torch, Regrud said he could have a good match with any buddy in wrestling except Ultimate Warrior. Like it's just guys almost took it as a challenge, like can I go out
there and have a watchable match with Warrior? And if you go back and watch Rick Rud and Warrior like I did last week from Summerslime, I think in nineteen ninety. I mean, it's it's just it could have been any weightlifter in an ultimate or outfit standing in the ring. Rude was just running circles around him, bouncing into, bouncing off of him, pulling him, you know, pulling into the ring side, and and and then I was just when you watch it through that lens, you understand how Warrior was just
so limited. And when you watch Sid, he like every other move that he executed was okay, but every other move, the other half of his moves were like the worst versions of the move you will see from anybody on national TV. And so they're both just they were just awful main eventors in their own way, but they had other things going for themselves in terms of charisma, size, look, connection to the crowd of a certain extent. With Warrior, for sure, with Sid somewhat, they had other things going
for him that made them somewhat useful. But they are not top tier main eventors in the by any means because they were so awful in some just I mean so anyway, Bruce Mitchell and I talked about that at more length than that YouTube clip. Jason, do you have a vote here? Who was the worst made of enter of the nineties Sid or Ultimate Warrior? Oh gosh,
I knew you're going to drag me into this. I guess I lean Sid just be because Warrior did have those two memorable match and one with Hogan one with Savage, and I really struggled to remember good Sid matches, and as far as Rick rud Goes, did rudever work Sid, I'm struggling to I would assume the cross pats at some point. Yeah, but I still the Warrior Hogan match does fan of us SID. But I don't think it's
because a Warrior. I think it's because the match was just intricately booked and laid out, and Sid didn't really have the benefit of that moment in history where he got to have this monumental match. But I know it is it is. We agree they're two awful main eventors. I don't think there's much disagreement on that in terms of, you know, the matches they produced and all that. But Sid Sid was a better athlete and had a wider range
of moves that he could execute. But I don't know. I should just booked them both and have a legend show and then we'll just get them together in one main event. Oh god, no, sorry, no, it's fun. I don't don't apologize that Bruce was exasperated. Want to talk I hate both of these guys, Franklin, where I really wanted to go with this and I hate to just take truncate you and turn it over on. Yeah. I wanted to talk about Brad Maddox a bit. Yeah, that
guy looked more like Eric Bishop's Sun than Eric Bishop's Sun years ago. What are you saying they had the idea with the idea with mister Kennedy where they were gonna they were gonna do a storyline where he was Vince is illegitimate son. Do you think, despite the hornswoggle fiasco a few years ago, do you think that this storyline could work again with Brad and Maddox as the illegitimate
son of Vince. He's springing upon Vince as part of an ongoing storyline with all these McMahons and triple hs and Stephanie who I just can't really tolerate. I don't really like seeing any of their segments. They're not doing anything for me. Is this a possibility down the line in your both of your opinions, thanks that sure, I don't think it's a possibility. As a just
a sidebar, I hate the term illegitimate. I hate labeling somebody born out of wedlock and abandoned by their father as illegitimate, just because of all that term is used in other circumstances, So that's more of a It's just a term that's carried over from another era when people judged children unfairly based on what their parents did. So that's just a side note. I hate that term. I'd rather say long loss on or whatever. But no, I don't.
I don't see them wanting to give any kind of a rub karic Bischoff by bringing his name into the Bradmatic situation. I agree Jason, I agree Dante that there's a resemblance there in some of their mannerisms and that kind of thing. But I like I find Maddox kind of funny and endearing in a weird, kind of quirky, nervous way, and I think there's a difference there than Eric Bischoff, who didn't just personality wise had a more more more
of an just always had kind of an arrogance to him there. And I don't see Maddox having that ahead Jason, Yeah, I was gonna say, Bischoff, you know, it just came across cocky where Maddox I think does when he wants to, but he doesn't always where Eric. I mean, I guess if I went back to the AWA, maybe i'd find some stuff with him as an announcer where they did where he didn't come across cocky, but just the WCW years, even when he wasn't trying to, it still
felt like there was a level of cockyness. Eric Bischoff, Right, yeah, yeah, I at we see there's alms, but no no. I and I just I think from a storyline standpoint, I think with drag Maddox down at this point to bring that up, I think Eric Bischoff has a relevant on air figure has played itself out. I don't think I think he was asking about vinch Am. I I could be, oh, oh you know what, well, let me. I think we just took a strange
path in getting there, because that was kind of thrown off. Yeah, let me go away, because I probably assumed where you're going with that and then didn't pay close attention to you running out. You want to know if you wor Yeah, so, and I do remember now that i'm thinking about it, you're saying, what if Maddox is a long lost son of instinct? Man? Right? Exactly. It's sort of the frus of why he's being brought into the gym. You know, he got moved into the general
manager role. It got called out by Vince. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll disagree, and then Maddox will pull this card out o way of a stirting control. Okay, something stripolate and Stephanie over to the side. Yeah that's yeah, because he has because Vince basically does have a son, but that Sun has no involvement in the resting picture anymore. So this is like the Sun he always wanted to take over his company. Did you start out with Maddox laying the surprise on, slowly warming to the idea and it
could be drawn out over a long period of time. Yeah, Jason, all right? With that? Really better than having to put up with, you know, with these endless things between Stephanie Triple H and Vince, which really are just completely frustrating. It's frustrating to watch these these people. They're just they're so tone deaf to in my opinion, into what we should be seeing out there on TV. Yeah, okay, j Jason, let me
jump in down there. I want to get the Jason on this. Jason, do you do you think Vince would introduce a long lost Suns storyline wise or is that kind of sacred ground to make somebody an honorary McMahon essentially? Well, I mean they have before. They've done it with they were going to do with Kennedy, they kind of did it briefly with Hornswoggle. It just it kind of almost feels like we've we've been there and done that.
And boy, if you're if you don't want to see endless Triple H and Stephanie McMahon segments, and you should not want this to happened, because that's exactly what it would lead to. A right, Yeah, I agree. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me Jason Powell host him
to three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro wrestling dot net along with other pro wrestling media members, Plus the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe an I team and Stitcher, downcast and all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at pwboom dot com. Once again, that's pwboom dot com. Dante. My
thought is, no, they won't go that way. I don't think they have to. But I think they can do the next. Not I will say the next best thing, but the next the next closest thing, which is have been essentially kind of adopt him, you know, like take have him be. He can say, you know, you don't I don't think he wants to be have people read it that if he says, you know,
you're the son I never had or anything like that. But you know, I think Vince could go you're like a son to me, and and and really kind of take him on as a as a protege of his and and and have that dynamic without having to make people think that that that you know that that that maddox is a product of an affair from you know, twenty some years ago, like when he huged Derek Bischoff on the stage and
something magically happened. Well, I don't know about that. That that was okay, we don't have to check the film, but I don't want to, all right, Dante. Thanks, Thanks. Let's let's go to a couple of the calls here. UH six four six seven two one nine eight two eight is our number. By the way, if you want to give us a call live on the show. UH six four six seven two one nine eight two eight. Let's go to UH Erico two eight one two eight
one. Please state your name and where you're from. Yes, is Justin from Dallas. Hey Justin, Thanks for Colin. What have you got? First? I really questioned about something that happened almost ten years ago, probably give a take. It was a braw fraw. I've always heard that this was a pretty pretty much a debacle, and I was kind of too young. I remember it happening, but too young to remember exactly how it went and what's what was going on. I just wanted a little enlightenment on that,
to get your off take on it than Justin. Before I go, do you have a like a Amazon Kindle or Barnes and Noble, Nook or Apple eyebook account. No, I don't use any of that. Do you read books? No, No, it's not an audiobook. It's not happened. Okay, Oh, that's what I'm checking out. Because Bob Holly's book was as good of a first hand account from a participant who was friends and with other participants, I would recommend reading his book, or at least going
to the bookstore and reading that chapter. It's less than ten bucks to buy it in a bookstore. It might be a good reason to pull out a you know, get a membership or just you know, order it off Mzon or whatever. But if you're fascinated by that and and you were a kid watching it and want to know the inside story on it, Bob Bob Holly's autobiography is I'm serious. It's a really good account of what happened behind the scenes and why that happened. In short, the you know it was it
was set up to be. It was set up to be real fights. It was uh. The idea was that Steve Doctor Williams would win and that would set him up as a legitimate badass who would then be a top orld title contender. And it just didn't it showed vincentman and and wwe why they orchestrate fights because when they're real fights, things do not go as planned and
everything got messed up. But but yeah, ww we booked it with with expectations of how it would go, and it went differently and they never did it again, and uh, and it was kind of embarrassing for for Doc Jason anything. The end of that. Oh, I wish they'd release a best of the brawl for all DBD. I'd love to go back and relive some of that. It would be like ten minutes long, because the best true true. But maybe we can get some backstage comments and you know,
all the fifty quick one hour documentary. It'd be better than some of the stuff we've seen them but out, Yeah, it was a strange, strange time. But yeah, I still need to read Bob Always book. I'm looking forward to that section of it for sure. The whole the whole book's good. I mean, here's a guest on the live on this very livecast the interview Friday format a couple months ago. We are running by the way
in the Progressing Torch newsletter. A transcript of that interview in the pages of the prosing Torch Newsletter, So if you are v IP member, check that out. We'll have another installment this week, and if you're not, I can transition into a plug for it. The Proposing Torch Newsletter comes with a VFP membership. You can get a digital copy and PDF format and all text
format. You can read it on a website or on your tablet or on a smartphone in an all text format or PDF format at sixteen pages, packed with newsletter exclusive features including exclusive transcripts of our interviews, my cover story, my endnotes, Bruce Mitchell's column, Greg Parks's weekly column, my reports on Raw and Impact, my Page to Radar column with insider news and quotes from newsmakers and insiders hop stories of the week, the pay per view roundtable,
reviews from the Torch staff, much more that comes with the VIP membership, along with usually more than seventy new audio shows every month. We average more than two audio shows per day, including new content and vintage content. We have our twenty years ago radio shows, the Progress and Focus radio show from twenty years ago that I hosted, and some familiar names on that show as
guest analyst and interviews. Paul Hayman and Jim Coronette, Jerry Lawler mc foley, some vintage Sean Waltman, some vintage interviews going back twenty years and also Bruce Mitchell of The Torch, Mark Madden who was then a Progressing Torch columnist, Dave Meltzer The Observer, Mike Teney, when he was a radio show host, was a guest on the Prosing Focus regularly. John Arezzi of Progressing
Spotlight. That twenty years ago show is part of a VIP membership. Also, we put up a new show every week and by the way, starting and we announced this just a couple of days ago, this fall, we're going to be premiering the Progressing Spotlight radio show from New York that ran for over five years from the late eighties through the mid nineties. John Aresi's Progressing Spotlight radio show. We will be featuring on an almost weekly basis those radio
shows. We worked out a deal with John Arezzi to share the copyright on that and and have him allow us to convert the shows to MP three and put them up on the VAP website. So if you're a specially if you're an East Coast based fan, but really it was. It was nationally based show in the sense that they talked about everything going on. That's gonna be a lot of fun and another really exciting new feature for VIP members. In addition to that, just in the last several weeks, we started running our
ten years Ago VAP audio shows. A PW Torch VAP website launched just over ten years ago, and that means we have audio shows from the early two thousands, starting in two thousand and three, and so I just put up a audio show today from ten years ago this month with it was like Wade
Keller Hotline. It was the tenth Wade Keller Hotline in fact, with my take on the Cane Angle where he set Jim Ross on fire, and a variety of other subjects, talking about early era TNA hype for SummerSlam a lot more so if you're interested in the ten years ago happenings, if you were, you know, looking at wrestling as a kid, or you know, as a fan who han't been introduced to the Torch and our style of coverage
yet. It's it's a lot of fun to go back and get the inside story and commentary from some familiar voices, including me and the Torch staff. Jason Powell was part of some of the roundtables at that point, and of course Bruce Mitchell and Pat McNeil were, So that is something where on a most days we are featuring now a ten years ago audio show. So that's
another bonus along with all the new content covering today's wrestling scene. So I could go on and on and on, but those are some highlights and some new features. To go VIP, you go to Porch dot com slash go vi IP, Pwtorch dot com slash Go VIP. That also gets the access to our VP after shows that follow most episodes of the Pwtorch livecast, including what Jason Powell and I will be recording shortly after we go off the air
live in a few minutes, and also Interview Friday. Almost all the time features of VAP exclusive aftershow, and sometimes it runs really long, and I do and I'm guilty. I've always say I have guilty of this. It's it's just the stress. It's just a good business move. I saved some of the more interesting subjects with our guests for the VIP after show because I want to thank the VIP members for their support because without them, we wouldn't
be doing what we're doing right now. And so the VP aftershows often are the most compelling part of the interviews, and that's where, you know, we really go in depth on some of the behind the scenes, backstage stuff. So again, Pwtorch dot com slash go vi IP is halp to sign up for that. We're gonna take another call or two and then stay tuned because Jason Powell at Progressing dot Net has a website and a membership side,
and he'll be talking about that in just a couple of minutes. But first let's go to our next caller, which is Johnny I think from Hollywood. Are you still from Hollywood, Johnny? Yes, this is Johnny from Hollywood, both p W Torch v i T member as well as a Pro Wrestling dot Net v i T member. Awesome up the day caller of the day. Yeah, appreciate your business and your support. What have you got first, Johnny? Okay, no problem, Okay. My first question has to
deal with Cody Rhodes. Recently, you know, they've been up or you know, more specied with Bamian Sam Now they've been over pushing that he's a like an uncollowed world champion, which also has it. It makes it seem as he's gonna eventually lose that briefcase. Do you think he might or end
up not losing brief but you know, cashing in and failing. But Alice throwing out the possibility, do you think he might lose the briefcase to Cody Rhodes down the road, Jason, what do you think that has been rumored? And watching the way everything played out on SmackDown this week, I think they're heading in that direction. I don't know how they get there. I can't say I like the idea, but I do like I like what I've
seen from Cody as a baby based at least on SmackDown. I mean, they're giving him wins on rawway, but they're not giving him any mic time. If you watch him on SmackDown, it's been I've at least I've been very impressed with the charism shown on the mic and Raw. Its just some of those SmackDown guys. I don't think they get to wrestle like Christian.
It gets to wrestle and that's about it. You can support us on Patreon and get these shows with ads and plugs removed, the weight Killer prossing podcast, weight Killer Processing post shows, and the PW torch daily casts throughout the week with ads and plugs removed, plus a few bonus vi IP shows throughout
the month. For just four dollars and ninety nine cents a month, check it out patreon dot com slash PW torch v i P. That's patreon dot com slash PW torch VIP and you can also upgrade two other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon. Yeah. Yeah, I think maybe once every seven years you should have the winner of the money in the bank briefcase lose the money in the bank briefcase, and only if it's booked really well.
But otherwise, I just think you have to protect the gimmick, the integrity of it, and make it seem like it's not transferable. But I but I just think Cody feuding with Damien is fun. I the briefcase is gone is and adjacent is in its film The Gulf of Mexico. Apparently. Yeah, Damien Sando is a very smart guy that apparently he can't swim right. He's been used to busy reading books, I suppose, Yeah, and by the way, I'm watching Bart Gunn bradshob or all for all. I don't
forget what I said about the DVD. Yes, I know when I say best of eight minutes is probably stretching it. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, no, I agree. I think smack Down Smackown's fun. That the angle with the Gulf of Mexico thing was was what's fun. Damien Sando was just really good at what he does. Oh he's actually Yeah. No, I think both these guys are a lot of fun. That it is a concern though, that year you have two guys are trying to elevate working against
one another again, I know, yes, I know. I mean when take teams break up, I don't think the best thing to do is to necessarily has them feud with one another. And it sounds counterintuitive, but a lot of times it just doesn't work, you know. I mean, there's just teams that wrestlers when they break ups. Usually I think when a team breaks up, it should be because one guy is breaking out as a single star and leaving the other guy behind. You know that that's usually the reason
to break up a tag team. It doesn't mean the other guys, you know, just having his career just disappear. But the other guy just, you know, should should be looking for a new tag partner or be mid card. But the reason you break up a take team is because somebody else is gonna rise and become a huge start, like Shawn Michael's and Marty Genette's a perfect example. You know, they broke up because Sean was he was too good to be in the Take team anymore. With Seto and Cody,
it kind of gets the idea that they're kind of equals. You know, they both have a relatively equal chance to move up the card, and they're in about the same spot. And then you don't really know what you gain from from the feud at that point. All right, up, next, let's go to air code six o nine and then on Tex six one six. Our phone number is six four six seven two one nine eight two eight.
I'm Wade Keller joined by Jason Powell. Jason Powell of Pro Wrestling dot Net and I am Wade Keller of p Wtorch dot com and now a new YouTube channel. Do you haven't signed up yet? Sign up right now? Like, well wait, we'll wait. Hold on YouTube dot com. Slash p W t O r C H and then click subscribe. Thank you all right, let's go to Eric code six o nine. Thanks for holding. Please state your name and where you're from. Guys, what's going on is
Joey, I didn't understand your name. Say again, I'm sorry, Joe from the Lake City. Joe from Salt Lake City, Atlantic Shitty Atlantic City, Oklatic City. We got a weird connection. Oh go ahead, Joe. Thanks for colin now. I was just wondering what you guys said about the wady packaged RPD. It's somewhat like D he haven't completely out there is like a legend or a legacy with no rule, no direction. Every week
he's just begging a different guy. I agree with that. I comment on this on my Keller Hotline last night after Rod Jason that RvDs right back. Why it kind of always ends up just kind of a guy to do some spots and be a star in the mid card. I you know, you know what I said when when T and A signed our VD over three years
ago. Don't bother to have him around if you're not going to do something that he can feel passionate about and that his fans can get invested in and right now he's just out there just you know, Fandango walked out of the ring and rvd's left. You know, I'm thinking of the free s jum Cornett would be using, but I won't use it on the show. But you know, he's just standing there, shrugging his shoulder looking at the crowd,
going that was weird. You know, I just don't think that's why you run vignettes for weeks and weeks and built up RBD to come back. I think fans want to see RVD and something meaningful that will be memorable. And now he's just another guy filling out five, six, seven, eight minutes or you know, occasionally asked to do a lot more. What do you think. Yeah, he doesn't even have a program right now. He's wrestling anyone. And I hated the Fandango thing. I've defended it before.
Wait about the count ouch that the heat goes on him rather than the company, But I've done it too many times now. It's just there's no direction with it. It's not like it's leading to someone getting him in a type of match where he has to stay in the ring or anything. It's just no, it's very easy cop out finish and now I can't stand it. But with Rob and I know spoilers on SmackDown as far as who gets the title shot or anything, even though that's that that took place last Thursday.
But I guess we'll wait and see on that. Uh, if it's not him, I don't know what I mean, we haven't seen any interaction yet with Rob band Damn and Paul Hayman. How bizarre is that? I know that is what and maybe that's what they're saving, you know, maybe they're saving up for that moment and just let Rob kind of reintroduce himself to the audience and then the time will come and we'll get you know, Robin Damn against Curtis Saxela, Robin Damn against brock Lesner or I don't know what,
or maybe our VD ends up associating with Hayman at some point. But yeah, I just I'm I'm just kind of the same old story with Rob once again. I don't would Punk against URVD interest you if rbds A heel? Yeah that's what? Yeah, Yeah, for sure RBD was do align with
Hayment. Oh yeah, yeah, I like that. Okay, yep, yeah, I mean they both can have kicks, you know, and and they both got not a history that cross paths, but a but a history of the they've each followed kind of a similar path for their time, but about eight years apart. You know, it's kind of the hardcore favorite. They were part of the number three promotion and the star of the number three
promotion for a while. And and they both are known for kind of having a rubbing people the wrong way in acting how they you know, just saying what they what they think and how they feel behind the scenes without a filter. You know, there's some differences straight edge versus pothead. But still I shouldn't say pothead, pot advocate, pot legal legalizing pot advocate, podead like it's a negative. Well, it can be if you're trying to get something
accomplished and not just sit around and feel good in each chips. But there's something to be said for sitting around and feeling good in eating chips too. But but nevertheless, if you have aspirations, like you know, to have a great career, it probably isn't a good thing if you're a wrestler because w W WE will probably notice and have noticed, and it has worked against people before, but yes it has. Yes, there there's a there, there's a time and a place, Jason, you know exactly. Yes,
all right, glad we made it through that. All right, let's go to without too much damage. Let's go to UH six one six next. Thanks for holding. Please state your name and where you're from. This is there from Grand Rapids. I have a I have a question and you have a question. A question for Okay, there's my training. I knew it, No, I got it, I got it back. I just wondered, what is Mark Henry gonna get over on the shield And I've only been
we fall wrestled for two day if years? What happens between Shane events? I didn't, I didn't. I'm right to the game when your callers, when your callers was bringing up and I didn't know. I don't know what. I don't know what really happened. So that that's all I got, you know what? Take just just give me a condensed version on that. Thank Yeah, yeah, sure, Mark Henry in the shield first, Jason, and you know last night he beat him up, you know, after
the loss. I don't know. I'm not sure where it's going, but I mean, I'm not I'm not against it. It seems like the right place for Mark Henry to land. I'd like to I'd like to hear from Mark Henry, you know, and have him talk about the Shield and what they did to him and keep you know, he's so good on the microphone.
I hate for even a week to go by where we don't kind of have Henry talking about where he is and what he wants to do, and you know what his motivation is, right, I mean, It's been reported by the Wrestling Observer that the match they were going with its SummerSlam is the Shield against Big Show and Mark Henry, so I guess it would be a handicap match. I can't stand that idea. The match we saw last night
is the one that I think just makes more sense. But because we saw it last night with the USOS and Mark Henry teaming against the Shield, I do think that's what they have in mind. It's the handicap. I just think the Shield are beneath working anybody, even guys the size of Henry and Show in a handicap match weight, I'd rather see them, I'd call me crazy. I'd rather see them actually, like even include the Great Collie if they had to just to even the sides of I just think it sounds a
bad message. It does. It says an awful message when you have three heels against two baby faces. It says these heels are not you know, that they're weaker than the two of them. I don't. I don't like that at all. I'm with you. As for Shane and Vince, I mean, I don't think there was. I mean, Jason, you asked the question a lot at the time. I'm sure with your sources, I did the same thing. People either don't know or won't say. It's usually
they don't know it's family business. I don't know that there was a Well, the short of it is is it became abundantly clear Stephanie was going to be the one of the two that was going to be running the company, and Shane had other aspirations and wanted to make it on his own. And who can blame him, you know, he's going on forty years old and
had worked for his daddy. Wanted to see, you know, what can he do out there in the real world, outside of the outside of the protective cocoon of of your family business, you know, and not that there aren't trials and tribulations and challenges and stress of being you know, in a family business. There are, but you know that, you know, there's a in a way you get you obviously get an upper hand in terms of getting promotions and you know, getting opportunities if you're the son or daughter of
the promoter. So I think Shane went out and try to try to its own. But Jason, for people you talked to, were you ever able to assess whether it was a bitter, uh, you know, disappointing, heartbreaking separation or more of you know, slightly awkward but got to happen type situation. I believe the latter, you know, and it's McMahons and something like that. They're gonna keep as quiet as as they possibly can, you know, I mean, it's Shane and Vince have been photographed together to backstage
and MSG and so I believe they're on decent terms now, Miners. You know, the best explanation I got for was that Shane just kind of realized that sometimes it's easier to have a good relationship with your father and the grandfather of your children when it's it's more not so much at a distance, but just not twenty four seven exactly, and he just wanted to go out and become his own man and he's done that. Ye yep. I think that's
a good assessment. You know, there wasn't a big scandal or a big breakup, and whatever complicated relationship Shane and Vince have has been kept understandably private. I mean, there's just no reason that part of WWW would have been exposed to anybody for them to gossip about it, exactly. Yep. Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history, don't miss
the Nineties Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. All right, let's go to U eight six two.
It's extuple stage name and where you're from? Kylin from North New Jersey. What have you out? First? Kaylin, who who do you guys think this August one needs mystery persons? Isna, Jason, we got a TNA question? Yeah, and I don't know. I mean, Adam Pierce is dropping hints like it could be him asking you a question August first, and I think Batiste has rejected it saying it's not him, which shouldn't surprise
anyone hardcore. Holly I think I said it's not him, and TNA actually ran I think Holly and Pierces. So I was I thought, well, Pierce would be great for this, but then Tianna actually ran his response on their website, which made me think, Okay, it's not him. So that just kind of brought me back to square one way, and I'm not really sure. Yeah, no, I'm not at all either. I don't
even really have a guest. I haven't put a ton of ton of thought into it, so I'm just not much not much good on that on that side of things, Jason. Let's let's transition into a plug for your membership. Let people know, first of all, I bought your website and your apps and your podcasts and your membership. Absolutely, I'm gonna make this a quickie today because I know we've got to get through more phone calls and so real quick. If for the latest on pro wrestling news and commentary, head
on over two Pro Wrestling dot Net. I've got my WWE Rock hit list up. We've got info on the ratings and the viewership from Raw last night. Momentarily I'll be putting Ryan Kester's rundown review of WWE Raw up as well. On the members side right now, my Q and a audio for just shy of an hour yesterday, I answered the dot neet members questions, both pro wrestling and non and then talked for roughly forty five minutes or so about last night's w w E Raw television show as well. We had damn near
daily audio. I think I was just looking and we've missed one day last week, but I made up for it with two audios yesterday. So there's and most of the audio shows approach to one hour. The dot net weekly show goes sometimes over two hours, and that's Chris Seure and I getting together on Thursday to analyze all the latest news of the week and oftentimes including first
run news it hasn't been reported anywhere else. This week we'll be spending a lot of time discussing the WWE financial report at Vince McMahon's conference call, where he is sure to tell us that the WWE network is eighteen months away what he told us last time the last quarter. But we'll have all the full rundown on that and any other news that pops up by between now and then as well in the dot net weekly audio show. For membership information, head
on over two pro wrestling dot Net. You can't miss the sign up area. It's right there on the main page. And for as little as five dollars and fifty cents a month you take that annual option, you can have access to all the perks of membership, the ad free version of the website that comes with the dot net members forum, and all that audio I was telling me about. If you want to try it out for a month,
samplet's see if it's for you. Seven dollars and fifty cents for one month, and if you have any questions about membership, hit me up on Twitter at pro wrestling Net. Very cool, Thank you, Jason, and we're gonna shock people here, but we're gonna play out to music and go to the VP after show because both of us are little tighter on time this week the normal, and we've gone past the one hour mark and we've got some email questions waiting for us, So we will do that Jason and talk to
everybody next week. But I'll be back on Friday with the Peutorch livecast Interview Friday format, and of course tomorrow Pettic Neil Johnny fair Play, who's works both in pro wrestling and reality television, talking about Total Divas, So i can't get enough discussion on that, and I'm looking forward to Johnny fair Play's insight into that. And Thursday it'll be James Caldwell along with you the Greg Parks for Sean Radikin to talk about the news of the week. Jason Paul,
pro Wresting dot Net, Wade Keller, podtorch dot com. Thank you for joining us, and once again YouTube dot com Flash pw Torch, our brand new YouTube channel goes. Sign up right now and subscribe. It is free to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Help us get to a thousand so we can unlock some new features that are pretty cool. Thank everyding for joining us, and if you are wanting to have us answer question on the after
show, the email addresses Pwtorch Live cast at gmail dot com. As always, thanks the kids on Bridges for the original music for the Pwteorge live test. Check them out on iTunes where now. In the v id aftershow portion of the program, Jason, we did a of what lately has been a record short PW twrche live cast. But maybe that has something to do with the pretape formaunt of raw and the lack of the density of major angles on the show, so that we weren't just you know, losing track of time.
And heck we did vote at the first twenty minutes to total viither. Yeah, at you wasn't a particularly news worthy addition of raw, even if figure somebody who's getten would read the spoilers, I think you get to come out last night show, you know, maybe entertained by it at the same time going which something would have happened. Yep, Well let's talk a little TENA here we got VAT member Stephen Burns and Glasgow Scotman. It says two
put TENA questions. I was very annoyed watching himpact last week is a main focus after Chris Saban won the title, wasn't building him up as champion, but instead was centered on what will Hulk Hogan do about the TENA world title Apart from a small appearance at the start of the show, Save and it was barely mentioned until the last segment, despite the fact that he could have
been stripped of the world title he just won. How do you feel about Hogan being able to turn a show after a big championship change to focus on what he will do? And how can Dixie Carter not see how this affects for the rest of the program. So first your thoughts on that, Jason,
Obviously, I'm just disappointed. I think Sabin. I mean, if you're good, his same thing was Rob vanem If you're good to do it go all the way or don't do it, And there's no chance for saving to get over if the show isn't about the guy who's delivering in the ring, and it's just it just I don't know. Yeah, it's maddening. It is. And Hulkogan, it's whether it's his fault or they just right him this way doesn't even matter to me. It's just he's not the right
guy to be the face of this company or any company. In twenty thirteen. There's a role for Hulk Coogan in pro wrestling certainly, and I appreciate the good that he's done in pro wrestling, but it's twenty thirteen and you know, as far and Chris sab and it's like, I want to be a fighting champion, so I want to have a champion versus champion, which usually means non title match against the winner of the X division title, which is manic, which is just a complete cluster mess of a storyline. He
wait, why is he maskless? And then he's not? And what the hell? I know somebody emailed me and asked that same question, why do you show who he is and tell his real name? And then he's back under a mask again. I mean, I know, Raymisterio didn't have a mask, and then he did again, but he's still Raymisterio and it's two different companies. I mean, it's not wwe shouldn't pay for dens of w c W and their bad decision to unmask Ray Maisterio, right, and the
fact that they didn't even decide to provide a story for it. It's like, well, we need a mask guy, but we want to transition away from the horrible suicide name and we're going to turn it into a storyline. Yeah, it's just there's no explanation for why he chose that name, what it represents. Is it arbitrary, is it mark? What's the point?
And why is he under a mask again? And they don't they don't care because Hulk Hogan is thinking about Hulk Hogan and Brook Hogan and Bully Ray and Devon and you know, making sure that his buddies who are around in the nineties get that one last paycheck. And you know, poor Dixie Carter, poor Dixie Carter has left being the latest money mark in a long history of money marks who get taken for this ride at the expense of the health of
the industry. And you know, Hulk, I'm quite sure Holk rationalizes and sleeps well and wakes up feeling good about himself, going, I'm Hulk Hogan and I'm Tena's best chance, and i am sacrificing and I'd rather not be on TV as much, but I have to do this because there's no other way to make this work unless I'm you know, on TV all the time. I'm hold I'm the glue that holds it together. I'm sure he's talked himself into that, and I think part of that is his lack of vision.
And same with Eric Bischoff and Dixie Carter and whoever is left in that company on the executive side, there's a lack of vision. There's a lack of saying we really self confidence and saying now we're gonna flex our muscles and we're gonna surprise people and turn Chris Saban into the biggest star Chris Saban can possibly be. And after four months, we're gonna evaluate, four or five six months, we're gonna evaluate whether Chris Saban being the biggest star he can
absolutely positively be, is enough to stick with him. And in the meantime, we're gonna be laying the groundwork with two or three other guys to possibly replace him as the lead baby face of this company. And we're gonna give Saban everything we've got, and we're gonna learn from history and be single mindedly focused like our our our livelihood depends on it to get Saban over. But if it's not, if it's not meant to be and he's not the right
guy, we'll accept that. And we've got the undercurrent, We've got this groundwork being laid for two or three other guys. So if we have to abandon the Chris Saban as a World Champion League baby Face, we'll have two or three other plans ready and we'll see which of those guys seems like the best bet, and we'll do that. They don't do that. They don't even I don't even think they sit down and go, well, here's a
viable game plan to get somebody new over. Eric Bishop didn't do that in w's W Hulk Coogan has always been about Hulk Hogan, and I just I don't even think it's like some I think there's a level of conspiracy. It's a survivalist. You know, we need to you know, I want my next contract. I gotta be relevant if I make somebody else's star, I'm expendable. I don't want to be one of those people. I've lost so
much money in a divorce and blah blah blah. So I think some of that plays into it, But I think some of it is they're simply not equipped to be starmakers. The people in control and TNA just don't know how to make a start. Doesn't even cross their mind that they're not good at that because I don't think they've ever put all that much thought into it. Jason, thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next level.
With a VIP membership, get shows like this, the Way Killer Prosing Podcast, Way Killer Prosing Post show, and the pw torche daily casts on our Pwtorch VIP podcast feed with ads and plugs removed from the shows for a streamlined
listening experience. And also hear the VP exclusive shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin, Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin signature v IP series that you're missing out without a VIP membership, So go vi ip here in twenty twenty two and enjoy all the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad free listening experience. Pwtorch dot com slash go vi ip no and I can't evenla. I don't blame Hosten for this. I
blame Dixie Carter for this. I blame TNA's issues on Dixie Carter. She's ultimately the person who does the hiring and maybe the firing too. I kind of sense that this is being dictated to her that here's the money you have to work with. Now, and so you know, they've got to make some tough decisions. And frankly, it's about damn time, Dixie. I mean, my god, if you've been in this eleven years, and even when you brought Hulk Cogan into the fold, you had to It's it's not
like it's a big secret. I mean, it's been well documented the history of Hulk Coogan, Eric Bischoff, and so you should study up on them and figure out, Okay, am I you know? Are they being sincere or am I being played? And I don't even know that. I mean you can't. Maybe there's some conspiracy there. I mean, Bishop certainly has his hands in creative, no doubt about that, and it's been well known that he's made sure Hulk Cogan's taken care of in those creative discussions, certainly.
But I think I don't think hul Coogan is just being evil here. I think Hule, because I mean he's told people before kind of thrown his hands up, like he throws out suggestion. It's not even for himself, but it'll just wrought a suggestion in creative and it just becomes gospel. It might not even be something he firmly believes in. He's just trying to suggest something and it's like, oh, it came from Hulk, We've got to use this. And it's like, well, can maybe we can discussed this.
I mean, there when Hulk Coogan was wrestling, I saw obviously there was a lot to look at as far as the manipulating, manipulations that we're going on now that he's just in this role. Yeah, I mean, you can certainly point to Brooke Hogan being there and and and I can't even argue with that a bit. But I just think they need somebody needs to have the balls to stand up and say, we're not going to make the show all about the Hogan family drama. It's just not going to happen.
And if creatively, with Eric Bishop being the executive producer, if Dave Leghana and Matt Conway can't do that, if they don't have the power to do that, then Dixie Carter needs to pull her head out of her you know what and step in and make sure this doesn't happen. But I think she thinks this is the way, and I think Dixie just doesn't know enough to know any better. I Mean, I just I don't sense that she's studied the industry and learned and and you can't just it's just pro wrestling is such
a unique industry. You can't just like orient yourself and start making decisions. But I just don't think in her time running TENA that there's been any evidence that she's learned some valuable lessons. I think she's attached herself to some people that she just thought she could trust, who seemed nice people and didn't want to take control away from her, like Jim Ross and Paul Hayman did. Right, Yes, yes, And so these are my friends, they'd have
a history of success. How why would I not believe them? I mean it's like, you know, some some guy who don't didn't watch the NBA or know much about it, suddenly buys a team and Michael Jordan is the guy who goes to to run the team, and it's like, why I gotta listen to Michael Jordan, not this website person who wrote an editorial telling me that Michael Jordan doesn't know candid valuate talent. What Michael Jordan, I gotta trust him, you know, I mean, I just think she you
know, I understand her looking looking at that and seeing it. So, you know, I don't know if it's blame is such a weird word. I just gets it's a conglomeration of the wrong people in the wrong jobs at the wrong time. It makes it kind of I don't think it makes it
hopeless, but you would. I just I wish somebody would step up and have a vision and express it. Dave Lagan and Matt Conway or Eric Bischoff get engaged and go all right, I needed now I'm going to turn my attention to this, and I've got some ideas and I'm going to really immerse myself in it, and I'm gonna work with Holgan. We're gonna make this happen. And I just I sense that they think they have some good ideas and some good talent they're pushing and some good story arcs, and it's not
producing results. And I think they're a little just kind of confused and disappointed. It would be fascinating to me because they're you know, their contracts just buy a different times now. Eric Bischoff and Hal Coogan went in together, but when Eric Bischoff became an executive producer, he now has a different deal
that expires at a different time than Hogans. I think it'd be fascinating if Hogan went back to w W E Bishop was content with that and stayed there and didn't have someone creatively that he had, you know, that he really needed to push for. What would he do then without Hulk Cogan, assuming he stayed and didn't just ask to leave at the same time, you know, then I think it'd be the first time since well before Hulk Coogan arrived in WCW that Eric wasn't just tied to Hulk Cogan when he was, you
know, working at in a creative capacity, right yup. And it was twenty years ago, like last week that the item in the Torch newsletter was and this all this up people going on with the power base in ww you know, and there was rumors that Terry Jared coming in after the negotiations with Terry Funk broke Off to be new executive vice president and also on there's just this hidden little item in a paragraph in the w W Newswire page, Eric
Bischoff has been promoted to the head of what was essentially the creative team. And everyone was kind of like, huh, what you know? And Eric had worked behind the scenes to a hobnob with the right people and impress them with you know, his presentation and his ideas. And he seemed more corporate than Terry Funk, more national with his vision. And then Jerry Jarrett with his you know, Nashville accent and his betune on the table in front of
the executives. Yeah, yep, exactly and uh and certainly less wacko and uncontrollable like Bill Watts, you know, I mean Eric, Eric was a product products on the word. Eric was the beneficiary of this parade of old school wrestling characters coming through the then becoming more and more corporate Turner Enterprises and and and Time Warren. I don't Time Warner had bought them out yet,
but the Turner Enterprises. And you know, you go from Bill Watts to Kerry Funk and Jerry Jerry being interviewed and then this young brash exuding self confidence with full of ideas, Eric Bischoff Watson speaks their language, you know, shakes their hand the right way and like you said, it's not spin tobacco out during in the middle of a meeting, you know, and he all of a sudden just kind of rows up through the ranks, and then he proved he deserved it, you know, with with I mean just a stunning
battle cry at WWF, with the whole nitro initiative and the talent that he brought in and that vision. Does he still have that drive? I assume he has a level of financial security now and that at you know, his age now, which is what late fifties compared to late thirties. I'm kind of half guessing here that he probably doesn't necessarily have as much youthful drive to
be a guy who would take over. But I would still be curious what he would do if if he got engaged and motivated to try to take teenade in luxt level. I think Jason that that would take him being given ownership in TNA, kind of like Paul Hayman wanted. Yeah. Perhaps, Yeah, And I mean just because you haven't seen the results from Bishoff, Hogan
and Company on Dixie Carter, that's that's not a move I make. If if I were going to if I were Dixie and we're willing to give up ownership, I think it would have been number one, it would have been to Paul Hammon, and number two it would have been to Jim Ross. Yeah, and I don't think boy. I mean, people in TNA will
tell that it's not an issue where they dislike Dixie Carter. They like her as a person, but they feel like, Okay, doesn't matter what cuts their making, doesn't matter who's who's signed and who's who's not signed when their contracts come up. Going forward, as long as she is running this company, we're just spinning our wheels. Yep, you know. And but I don't know that the Carter family is going to feel safe and just turning something
over to an Eric Bischoff or Hulk Cocon or anybody else I know. I know. Well, let me jump back to us Stephen Burns fat member, because he's got part two on Saving. Just winding back to that. I heard you both say last week. For that, for Christ they've been to be successful, they'd have to evolve this character paths being an underdog competitor returning from a bad injury. Well, you both said you weren't sure what that
could be. I thought an idea could be to build Saving up as a proud Detroit wrestsell, representing the city after it declared bankruptcy and fighting to support his family and friends. Can you talk about saving not only fighting for the prestigia of being world champion, but also fighting because every championshipvictory he brings some
much championship paycheck for his family and charity supporting the Pearan Detroit. I think you could really tell a relatable story and could intertwine real life issues in the city of Detroit to make him a character you would want to see succeed. What do you think, I'm in twin Cities. We're not that far away from Detroit, and to me, it's just two regional man even like the Motor City machine Guns was like, it's fine, but it's still Detroit.
And their hand gestures were something that people apparently in Michigan understood, and I don't think the rest of the world understood. I didn't until someone had to tell someone explained it to me. I just think you can. You know, they're in national promotion and you just don't want to go that especially. I mean, it's it's not even regional. It's just a city you're talking about. And I know it's in the news right now because of the bankruptcy,
but no, I mean, you can you can. It's not like he can allude to it, but I don't make that like the focus of his character, right, yeah, yeah, I just I think the focus of his character is he is a breakout star who can't loot, he doesn't lose. I mean, you just you build him up as that. You know, it happens in sports. Somebody has a breakout year and they rise
that next levels. You know, they're given a starting job, and they're giving the right head coach and the and the opportunity and they just run with it and saving and you know, you you expressed your questions, can he do it? You know, is he good enough to do it? Yeah? I think he's good enough to be believable in that role. Whether he would truly be the best in the world, I don't know, but I think he could probably have good enough matches that t Anda could tell that story
if they told it convincingly. I think that's their best shot. I don't think they need to bend over backwards to come up with something about Detroit this or you know, some inspirational story. Just have him be the fighting, scrappy, undersized baby face who finds a way to win. And it is actually a lot better than anybody gave him credit for including himself and then just
strip it away and do that baby face champion story. And he doesn't even have to be the most colorful guy, because that's the job of the heels, you know. He can be the everyman, you know, just the guy, the superhero without the costume, the guy who represents every man. But in the ring, he just turns it up and is able to send off and frustrate the hell out of these just heels who are awful people who you know, live, cheat and steal to get ahead. If you're gonna
go Saban's, that's my thought, you know. I mean, I'm not saying Saban's my first choice, but I think you gotta at least give it your best shot. And they're not even trying that. And I hate taking a guy out of the ex division, making him the World Heavyweight Champion,
and then having him fight the Exhivision champion again. And I mean the fact that Tena thought that was a good idea just shows, in my opinion, how absolutely clueless they are about what the worst thing is they could do for saving and Week two as Champion, need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts will come join me Alan fell Over in the Progress Paradise at Pen Resorts VIP as we bask on the right side of wrestling and focus on some
of the great matches and shows from around the world, be at the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows such as the We Love Lger series celebrating the glorious career of Juician thunder Lighter and our I Was there When shows where our guests will join me to talk about a classic bout that
they were in attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots of it at the pro Rest Paradise. Detailed pwof Torch VIP subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits is available at PW Torch vipinfo dot com. And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site. See you in the Paradise and to bring the ult Who was it
that named t J Perkins? Manic It wasn't t J Perkins. I don't even know hul Coogan. So what does that have to do with say, I'm just lost on the point and the whole thing full circle with you know Hogan, Tian and all that. Okay, it just he Yeah, first, Hulk Cogan was the one who reintroduced him as manic like he's the one who came up with the did this on television? It was bizarre? Right, yes? No, no, yea, yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. All right, we have another email question.
This is from Jamal, who I believe called the show. He says in response to what he said, it seems that the scripted promos is what WWW does as a standard until they trust the superstar with bullet points. If WWW doesn't trust Zigler with adled promos and Siggler is not go to scripted promos, I'm not Convincedigler would be a mainstaymin of entor he will be successful and have
a good career like Mister Perfect, Chris Jericho or Eddie Guerrero. I think the upside is with Biggie because he's newer, has a size, WW likes him, can be a main of enter without needing promo ability, which as Brock Lesner, Vader Yokazuna undertaker, and does I need crazy in ring work like Zigler. Ziggler already has awesome in ring, but he needs promo skills. Go Over's a baby face. He's been in WWWE so long. I just think the ships sailed for Ziggler to be a quote sustainable main of entor
boy. Jamal, your your rebuttals not swaying me at all, because I don't think Ziggler has been a main inventor for that long. It seemed like forever in some ways because he was doing so many jobs. But I don't think big ye Is is seen by people as a brock Lessner size guy or Vader Yo because an undertaker. I think he's a midsize main event guy. I don't. I don't, you know, zigglers small, But Biggie's just he's like Jason and I wrong, I don't. I don't look at Bigie
as some big monster, you know character. No. I look at him as a powerful guy, but almost a little bit awkward in terms of his appearance. He doesn't, you know, he's not Mark Henry, for instance. No, he's not. He doesn't. He is a powerlifter, but he doesn't look like the other powerlifters we've seen in wrestling. Yeah yeah,
And I just I think Ziggler can develop his promos. I just think it takes, you know, he's a It takes some finding his voice and then people the writer's kind of understanding that voice and not getting in his way and then helping him along in terms of bullet points. But he's just he's not there yet, but I think he I think he probably is has a better chance to get there than Biggie does at this point. And granted, like Jamal says, Bigge doesn't necessarily need great promos, that's fine, but he
needs something. And I think Ziggler on a you know, if there's eight traits that get somebody over as a main of enter and you got to have four or five or six of them, I mean, I don't know what you know, Ziggler has four or five, six of them, and we can point at two or three that he's not great at. He doesn't have great size, his promos aren't there yet, but he's got a lot of other things main of enters need, and Biggie I just don't think he's proven
he has any of them yet. But he hasn't proven he doesn't have them, but he hasn't proven enough to me to put this to put him on the same In the same conversation with Ziggler at this point, Yeah, I'm with you on that. Hey, I hope he's as good as Jamal thinks he is. Yeah, yep, all right. Tin finally says, does Standard Bryan need to evolve? Yes, yes, in order to be a sustainable main eventor how can they evolve when where he can maintain his connection with
the fans is yes? Yes, yes, a fad Jason doesn't where it self out or is it something you can take with him for years? Oh that's I mean, that's kind of a big question. I would like to see it kind of fade away. But I think it's even if they try
to it, I think it's here to stay. I mean, maybe it doesn't, maybe it's not as passionate right now, but it's just the problem is if he turns, let's say he becomes the corporate champion just for the sake of argument, Okay, then he doesn't want the fans chanting yes anymore, they'll chant know again. You know. It's just one of those things. No matter what they do with him, that's always going to be there.
You can you can always go the other way with it. So I would like to see it be a fad, but I don't think it's going to be. I think it's just one of those things that is now tied to him, right yep, Yeah, I don't it's tied to him, and I don't think it really necessarily holds him back either. You know, where it does hold him back is when he like last night at the end of the show, when he's just so enthusiastic pumping the finger in the air
for that. That looks a little mid card to me. Yeah, I don't mind the thing, you know, it's like, go ahead and get him channing. Yes, but I don't need him just running around jumping up in the air doing it. That does That doesn't look main event. Well let's send on this note. What did you think of Vince McMahon's marketing of the Scena Brian match? And think he doesn't want either got to win and he wants it to disintegrate and go poof in the ring? What? What?
What are fans supposed to feel going into this match? I I'm not sure that as of you know, viewer watching as a fan that I mean, they're not making you, h on Sena, They're not making you. I don't. I just I'm not sure what people are going to be rooting for, or what were they're supposed to be rooting for. No, I
have no idea what we're supposed to feel. I kind of assume that Randy Orton's Vince's vision for a champion, and he ends up turning Keel somehow, some way and coming out of this with the champion, and Vince does win, but beyond that, he doesn't like he doesn't like John scene. And now he's basically telling people this scene has got a big head. So he's tearing down the arguably the most well certainly their their idea of the top baby
face. He's finding every little thing he can to point out negative about Daniel Bryan. You're tearing down arguably the second most popular guy in the company, and it's it's weird, and I don't think Vince is nearly as good as he once was in his promo work. Right, I'm not liking this way. I just I want to like the segment. I watched it last night. I didn't get bored. It held my interest. There's Vince still has that star power that he brings to it. It's interesting to see him in
Daniel Bryan do their thing. And so as I'm watching it, like okay, this is this is entertaining, and then it's over and I can sit back and think about it and I'm like, wow, that was really asked backwards. They really they didn't do a good job there, I know, I know, I'm They've got what two more ros? I think? So yeah, so they go around this out, you know, I mean, obviously I think it's fine to you know, not have every show try to
be the hottest show ever that can burn everybody out. I mean, it's just natural that there's gonna be an ebb and flow and so that that doesn't bother me when we have kind of a mediocre week when it comes to forwarding storylines or that, you know, a maintenance show of sorts, and that's fine. And there was just enough on the show, you know where if you missed it, you're not kicking yourself, but if you invested in it,
you feel like you saw some worthwhile stuff. But they do need to really kick things up, including figure out what they're doing with senior Daniel Bryan, because I think we're gonna, you know, if they don't fix this or do more or narrow down what we're supposed to think about this, it's gonna seem like they just did this match, almost begrudgingly, without a vision
in mind, and almost not sabotaging it. But their heart's not really in it because they're just doing it because the fans like Daniel Bryan and they had this reality show, so we don't have anybody better to go with, so let's just do this. And I assume he doesn't get the corporate makeover because a part because of the total devens Wade. I don't know that they want to have you watch on Sunday and see him look one way, even though
you know they're telling you when like Wrestlemandy and all that. Still, I think it would be a little awkward. I don't know that they go through with it, but and I guess one the biggest issue I had there,
Vince the character has been branded is crazy now basically Stephanie. I don't know what she's trying to be, and we've certainly talked about her and the issues with her character, her persona Triple H. Can't he be the voice of reason the wrestler and say when she says corporate makeover, he even though it's his wife, he just rolls his eyes. Can't he be the guy because
of his wrestling background to say it does that stuff? It matters to a point, but it's what really matters is how good or bad is he in the ring? And this guy's phenomenal, he should be that voice. Yeah, it's no, I agree. And if the end goal is to get Triple H over as the baby face leader, that you can feel makes you feel good about supporting WWE. I mean they're not they're not on a solid
course for that. They're they're on a bumpy ride there. It's not it's it's not working yet, but it might be where they're headed and maybe they can fix it, but I don't. I just it just feels like the mcmans are on TV because the mcman's feel like they need to be on TV, and so they're just kind of doing this tongue in cheek parody of themselves and they just think our, you know, our mere presence on TV is
is is enough to you know, add to the show. And in a way, it's just taking away from it and I think making people feel just kind of conflicted about the brand. One other quick inconsistency if it bothered Vinch so much that Brad Maddox put the power to for John sheen or to choose a Summer Slam opponent. Yeah, why is Vicky Guerrero, who is out to please Vinch doing the same thing on first thing I thought of too,
And I don't know, weird, I don't know. Well, maybe they'll address it on SmackDown on Friday, or maybe Vince will think I nobody remembers that stuff. He's wrong. Yeah, that's a whole week ago, all right, Jason well uh well went on that note for archdea thoughts on the entire episode of Rock. We can listen to our audio updates on roll last night, but yeah, I think that's uh, that's it for me.
So Johnny fair play tomorrow and uh talking about total more total devastok, so kind Michael Kingston was the headlock come yeah, thank you, yep, absolutely so until then on behalf of Jason Powell. But this waight Keller, thank you signing up, invite you to email the show with feedback or questions. Or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. That's way Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter.
You can follow us on Twitter at PW torch and follow me at the Wade Keller. That's at PW torch and at the Wade Keller. One way that you can help us sustain our schedule of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go to Apple podcast and look for our Weight Keiller Prossing podcast and Weight Keiller Prossing Post
show and give us a five star rating. We hope you think we've earned that score with our fast turnaround times and our quantity and quality of wrestling analysis throughout the week. So take a moment out for us and do us favor and give us a five star rating and Apple Podcasts. That helps us on search returns and helps us grow. And if you want, you can add a few comments about what you like about the programs in the comments section.
Thank you so much. Are you a nostalgic wrestling fin do you want to hear about shows you haven't seen in ten twenty maybe even thirty years Well, I have the show for you. I'm pwswitch dot com contributor Frank Betty Annie, and since December of twenty twenty, I've hosted Pro Wrestling Then and Now. Together with a rotating chair of co hosts, we go back and review old shows from top to bottom, talk about where the wrestlers were at the
time, and compare what's taking place now to what took place. Then you can hear this along with other shows as part of your Pwtorch VIP membership, with exclusive podcasts just for members compatible with the Apple Podcasts app is a pwtorch dot com slash gil vip for details and sign up form. In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
look at this page in NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they did or didn't work exclusively for PW Torch vip members. Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. Each week he'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and my team at pro
wrestling dot Net along with other pro wrestling media members. Plus the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names in the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe on itun at Stitcher, Downcast, and all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at pwboom dot com. Once again, that's pwboom dot
com. Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, will come join me Alan fell Over in the Progress Paradise at Peter Retort VIP as we bask on the bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the great matches and shows from around the world, be at the US, Japan, Europe
or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestling's past and the paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows such as the We Love Lger series celebrating the glorious career of Juician thunder Lger and our I was there when shows where our guests will join me to talk about a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots of it at the pro Rest Paradise. Detailed pwef Torche VIP subscription information and a list of all the
VIP benefits is available at pwe torch vipinfo dot com. And yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site. See you
in the Paradise. Now that we're in the thickest summer, you might be looking for wholesome, convenient meals to support sunny, active days, or you might just be looking forward with me all the heat up for all the big summer pro wrestling shows that you're going to settle in for and watch at home. Well Factor is America's number one ready to eat meal kit, and they
can help you fuel up fast. With flavor full of nutritious ready to eat meals delivered straight to your door, you'll save time, eat well and stay on track for reaching your goals. If you're too busy with summer plants to cook but want to make sure you're eating well with Factors, skip that extra trip to the grocery store, the chopping, prepping, and cleaning up,
and save money compared to delivery. Plus, you don't have to wait a round for it, and it's not greasy fried stuff that's cold by the time you get it. Factors Fresh never frozen meals are ready in just two minutes, so all you have to do is heat and enjoy, and then get back outside to soak up the warm weather or settle in for a good meal while watching wrestling. You can stick to your wellness goals with premium ready to
eat meals featuring high quality ingredients. Treat yourself to thirty four plus weekly restaurant quality options like bruschetta, shrimp rozzotto, green Goddess chicken, and grilled steakhouse filet mignon ready in just two minutes. There are vegetarian, vegan, and protein plus options depending on your diet choices. They also feature lunch to go options, effortless wholesome meals like grain bowls and salad toppers that are ready to
eat when you're on the goal, no microwave required. They also have calorie smart meals with a round or less than five hundred calories per serving, but the nutrient density will give you the fuel you need to get through the day.
With Factor, you can rest assured you're making a sustainable choice. They offset one hundred percent of their delivery emissions, source one hundred percent renewable electricity for their production sites and offices, and feature sustainably sourced seafood in their meals. So this July, get Factor and enjoy eating well without the hassle. Simply choose your meals and enjoy fresh flavor pack meals delivered to your door, ready in just two minutes, no prep, no mess. I am a
customer. I love Factor Meals. I enjoy picking the meals out from the selection each week and looking forward to trying some new things and having some of my Factor favorites. So head to Factor seventy five dot com slash Wade fifty or use code Wade fifty to get fifty percent off. That's code Wade fifty at Factor seventy five dot com slash Wad fifty to get fifty percent off.
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history, They'll miss The nineties pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed, Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties. Passcasts every Friday on the
PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next level with a VIP membership. Get shows like this, the Wait Killer Prosing Podcast, Wait Killer Proceing post show, and the PW Torch Daily casts on our PW Torch VIP podcast feed with ads and plugs removed from the
shows for a streamlined listening experience. And also hear the v I exclusive shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin, Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin signature v IP series that you're missing out without a VIP membership, So go vi ip here in twenty twenty two and enjoy all
the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad free listening experience. Pwtorch dot com slash go vi ip. It's a new year, so why not treat yourself to a Pwtorch vi IP membership and get these shows with the ads and plugs removed and a ton of VP exclusive audio shows such as the new Focus on a EW and Focus on ww E series that I record throughout the week dedicated to a Focus Look at ww News and a Focus Look at a EW News, along with commentary, analysis and Q and A with VP member
listeners, plus our post pay per view VP exclusive roundtables and so much more, plus over thirty five years of archives, a podcast, radio shows, newsletters, articles. Check it out. Pwtorch dot com slash Go vi ip tells you all about membership, So why not make twenty twenty two the year that you enjoy all the benefits that come with pwtrch VIP membership. Every Sunday night, catch Wrestling Night in America on Pwtorch Dailycast dot com, hosted by
me Pwtrch columnist Gregg Parks. Each week, I'll welcome a co host from the Torch family to discuss the big shows in pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails, You can listen live most week's beginning at eight pm Eastern on Sunday nights with a WWE or Impact pay per view, we go on the air. At the conclusion of that pay per view. You can listen live, but of course, the full show is available for download on demand anytime
shortly after it airs. Visit pwtorch dailycast dot com and click the live stream link to find the next scheduled live show link. Search Pwtorch and Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe the Wrestling Night in America every Sunday pwtorch Dailycast dot com. Give yourself a reason to look forward to. Go into the mailbox each week with a Pwtorch newsletter paper copy. Subscription details at pwtorch dot
com slash paper Copy. It's twelve pages every week packed with my TV reports, along with exclusive features such as my cover story on the top story of the week, our pay per view roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Shan Radikin, Alan Coonahan and Zach Haydorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more. Pwtorch
dot com slash paper Copy. Take a break from screen time and settle in every week with the megadosup wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter paper copy edition in the year twenty twenty two. You can get a full year of home delivery for just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight week trial subscription pwtorch dot com slash paper copy