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trying some new things and having some of my Factor favorites. So head to Factor seventy five dot com slash Wade fifty or use code Wade fifty to get fifty percent off. That's code Wade fifty at Factor seventy five dot com slash Wade fifty to get fifty percent off now. Pw Dorgan Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling podcast ten years ago. This week, Travis Bryan from the Kilt Tortis postcast joined me on the flagship and we talked about whether Ross's
final angle helped or hurt Daniel Brian helped or hurt Randy Orton. Also did triplations, Stephan and McMahon have their best night yet We're being sarcastic. Listen to find out. Also, what about Hayman right Back and l Tarto. We had live calls and emails sprinkled throughout the show. This originally live streamed on October first, twenty thirteen, and it is today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast ten years ago Flightship Flashback for Monday, October two, twenty twenty three.
Here we go, Welcome to the p Wtrch Live Cast. I am Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty seven and also pwtorch dot Com since nineteen ninety nine, the Pwtorch apps since two thousand and eight on iPhone, Android, Amazon, Kindle, Fire, Samsung Smart TV and Blu Ray players, and Windows phones. Also and also
host of THEPW Torch Livecast since late two thousand and nine. I host on Tuesday's End Friday's Friday's Our Interview Friday, where we have a special guest every Friday. Last last Friday, we had Alex Greenfield, former WWE creative team member, who spent nearly two hours with me discussing fascinating behind the scene stories on WWE, including his experiences with Triple H and Stephanie McMahon back in the mid two thousands. Nearly two hours, including by the way, the VP
after Show. Some of the best stuff was in the VP after show, as VP members have been buzzing about that since Friday. This coming Friday, by the way, Matt Morgan our scheduled guest. He is a return guest. Last time he was on the show, he was with TNA, and I'm not saying he held back, but you know, you get a different interview when someone is with the company versus feeling free to speak a little more openly because there's not a PR person listening in. And Matt Morgan is talkative,
a student of the industry and in the news. Where will he land next or is he a victim of the current wrestling landscape where TENA is not paying anyone but WWB doesn't want anyone from TNA. Well talk to him about a lot of good stuff. This Coming Friday starts sending your email questions in for Matt Morgan right now p W Torch Live Cast at gmail dot com.
You can send in questions for today's show to PW Torch Live Cast at email dot com or give us a call on the phone line which is six four six seven two one nine eight two eight six four six seven two one nine
eight two eight. Normally I am joined by Jason Powell of the website pro Wrestling dot Net on Tuesday's Jason is on vacation this week, and so therefore I am excited to present your co host for today, Travis Bryant, who normally co hosts Mondays with Bruce Mitchellan is also the host of the East Coastcast at Travis twavet right East coastcast dot com. Yeahs right, Willie, Thanks, Yeah, it's great to have you on. I don't I think have
we only done Tuesday live cast together one or two other times once? And I think we did a Monday show back in the wee early days of the live cast end of nine, beginning of twenty ten, something like that. Well, it's great to have you on. For those who don't normally listen on Mondays because of Bruce, welcome to Welcome to Tuesdays. Uh, and you listen on Tuesdays, it'll be good to experienced, Travis, and and we encourage you to check out the East Coast Cast. It is not a
a PG show like like the live cast is here throughout the week. So if you, uh, Travis, if you describe what it is about the East Coast Cast for people who aren't aren't regular listeners, that that would draw them to the show. How do you make your show stand out? Every week? It's completely unfiltered. It's live, so it's unedited. Uh. We take any and all calls, even the stupid ones, and we just
take fun of them. But we we just talk wrestling, and we invite anybody to talk about any topic, and we mean any topic, and wrestling kind of is just a bit of a backdrop at times. But no, but when we do talk wrestling, which is at the forefront, Uh, it's it's just from from the perspective of two guys and their and their pals. You know, at the moment what happens, let's talk about it,
like guys. No, you know, no, no one's listening in except you know, hopefully hundreds are thousands and but uh but yeah, we just uh we keeps it. Uh absolutely one hundred. Who who's this? Uh? Who's this co host? You speak of? Bar dre Pernell, the uh the soft spoken Uh, he's he avoids the limelight. But he is u a great co host and a great bed friend. So bar jre Pernell follow him at pernell b by the way on Twitter. If you cared to my impersonation of him is yeah, as far as it goes all right,
dre is that you? Yeah? All right? Well let's uh, let's shift. Oh. By the way, Travis Bryant also is a participant in ASPW Torch, which up until today day was a website exclusive at pwtorch dot com unless you were a VIP member. VP members get access to all spout torches on all our platforms. We for the month of October just check things
up or flipping it around. So now ask pwtorch. The staff version is now going to be an app exclusive this month, and the SKPW Torch All Star Panel is going to be a website exclusive just this month and then we'll flip back in November. But we want to expose people who are just on the website to the all Star Panel, maybe draw them over to our app and same thing. People who are normally just app readers, we want to
get them over to our website and check out the version. So anyway, if you're used to reading Travis's answers to Spwtorch and you want to keep reading it on the web, you have to become a VIP member. Because VIP members get everything and we don't have any exclusions. They get all kinds of exclusive content. But if you're not a VIP member and you don't plan to be, and there's a lot of you out there, and we still love you, freeloaders, we you're gonna have to get read both the app and
the website. As always, tread both versions, but we're flipping them around. Travis. Let's let's shift gears to the main topic of today, obviously, which is last night's edition of Monday Night Raw, the final episode of Raw leading to Battleground. There's a lot of ways we can go with this. We're gonna get to call soon, but I want to hit two or three talking points first, the first one being Travis, did the final angle at the end do more good or more harm to a selling Battleground b Daniel
Bryan and see Randy Orton your thoughts on that. I thought Rady Orton came out looking very strong. I mean, how could he have not. I think Battle Brown is going to do one of the I think it's going to do. It's going to be historically low buy rates. And it was the first all in Daniel Brian look and no he was just a chump. I
thought he had a pathetic showing. Yeah, like, I mean, there's a lot of things to dissect, and I did forty minute a forty minute recap of Raw last night, and I'm not going to go in as much detail as they did for VP members last night on this But the main issue that I had with Daniel Bryan, among several and the way he was presented, is that the show ended with the message to fans being Daniel Bryan is
determined to win a match to win the title on Sunday. We got that, I mean, he turned up the volume, he seemed intense, and that was good, but but two things were missing. One the sense of Daniel Bryan can actually beat Randy Orton, because Daniel Bryan took it to Orton at first, but then Orton, with no heel, cheating, no nothing, just a straight up and up ring sidebrawl, got the better of Daniel
Bryan, got way the better of Daniel Bryan. So it didn't exactly communicate the fans that you should be cheering for Daniel Bryan because he's a deserving champion.
What it kind of told fans is, yeah, Randy Orton's a tougher guy, but if you love Daniel Bryan, maybe he'll get lucky on Sunday, which brings us to the second problem Travis, which is, even if he gets lucky on Sunday and somehow beats the guy who just beat the crap out of him on rawn a one on one, even Stephen fair fight, even if he gets lucky and wins, because you know, he did win last month, that he did pin John Cen, even though they never talk
about that, Daniel Bryan didn't address, nor did the announcers, nor did anybody the elephant in the room, which is, if Daniel Bryan wins, will it beat the third month in a row that management Tripleach and Stephanie decide they don't want him to be the face of their company and they're going to find a way to get the title off of him again. How does that not get talked about the last two weeks by Daniel Bryan, who's just kind
of happy, go lucky. Hey, I'm just gonna try again, ignoring the fact that even if he succeeds Travis, there's a history that Tripleach will find a way to get it from him, and the announcers aren't even talking about it. And to me, maybe it's a positive because they've realized it's
a bad storyline. They don't want to draw attention to it, but it is a gaping storyline hole, and I think viewers needed something better to transition away from having no hope than we just deciding we're just gonna drop it and not talk about it and hope people forget right. I think people just assume, well, there's going to be something wonky and it's finished. Why wouldn't it be, That's why. And again that's going to go into the historically
low by rate that I'm predicting. Yea, and I just I don't, I don't get again, I'm I'm a bit baffled myself. Like people at home, they're sitting there, were waiting for this obvious issue to be addressed. And again, for two weeks, we only had three weeks to build this damn thing. But for two weeks he doesn't even say anything, and then this week his comeback is about motivation. And I don't need anyone to
be motivated to get the title. Not I'm going to you know, even without even addressing still without even addressing yeah, if I win, they could take it away from it at any time, but just push I mean you could have just push through that. They'll take it from me and I'll beat you again because I beat you. That's what I do. I beat you, Randy, and I'm going to pop your little shoulder out of its socket and you're going to tap out, and I'm going to beat it three time
champions and then if I need to beat a four times hit. But none of that, none of it, not a bit. And it pissed me off watching and he didn't even touch on anything, and he went off into this thing about motivation, and yeah, it came across and what we got two references to viril in one show. And when you see a word that you normally don't hear talked about, it's because the same writer probably promo for
two guys and just use the same word. This felt like the writer sat down and said, Okay, how are we going to have Randy Orton talk about what you know, Triple Ahi not giving him the title? How does that make sense? You know? Because they're trying to they plant their flagpole, which is well, Triple agis trying to prove that he's objective. He's really not, but he'll do little things now and then to kind of show he does what's best for business and is objective and that he is trying to
convey to fans. I'm going to be even handed, but there's always an ultraior motive, and the ultraior motive their storyline is that Triplachi didn't just give Randy Orton the title back because well we kind of saw with Stephanie they wanted to bring the killer instinct out in him. So Daniel Brown was playing off
that last night, and I understand it. I don't think it's a great storyline, but it just it did come across as kind of clunky, and I don't again, I see these storylines that involve Orton, Bryan and de facto Triplachian steph being done through this narrow lens of what do we do to keep Triplachian Stephanie making sense but not really thinking how do we keep Daniel Bryan himself strong? And the things you said, Travis are what fans of Daniel
Bryan want to hear, and that's end of anybody. I mean, it's just like common sense, like why isn't the good guy saying like I beat you on raw leading up to this, like in this summer, I've beatn you. Excuse me, I've beatn you last month, clean as a whistle. Fast count. You know nothing he needs to say too, that fast count? Yeah, and why hasn't just as far as the fast count itself, Brian touched on this maybe a week or two ago. Uh, but
we supposedly Brian and he not Hevner Armstrong. I mean he said that, Triple Chian and stuff said it. They disgraced themselves, disgraced the company, disgraced the industry. But he got a nice walking package and I'm here getting beat up every week. Ye, so if we were, if we're both disgraces, I mean, that's a ref I mean, I'm just the wrestler trying to win. He's a he's an official, he has real power,
So why is he you know? But again that's just that would just be too too logical and and and I don't know, are they are they thinking, well, we kind of want some people to think Triple H is being you know, honest. We can't hit it over, we can't be that. I don't know. I'm just well, I think triplers are trying to do and maybe this is this would be their explain nation is in order to
satisfy the board of directors, and they don't really talk about them. They don't act like Stephanie and Triple Aachi and Vince have to act answer to anybody. That just varies. If they don't, that's quarter and quarter. Well, no, they don't talk about it. But if the if, the implication is, and I'm giving them more credit than I think they deserve.
What you what I talked about last week, they're making us fill in our own story That was the number one line on the right up of last week's East Coast cast WW, making their fans write their own storylines like well, maybe Triple just being dubious here, but that's ridiculous. Yeah, no, you're you're right, and you're about to feed right into them. I'm giving more credit than I mean, it's just the same. Well I'm not.
Yeah, no, I'm not trying to give them credit. What I'm trying to do is find the motivation for where this storyline might be coming from with the with the conclusion being they need to tell this story and as you said, not leave it to the to the list, to the viewers to complete it. But I'm just trying to think where in Triple h's mind. Does he come why does he want to seem like he's doing what's best for business?
Is it possibly in his mind even though he fails to communicated to viewers that well, I need to create the perception of being fair and doing what's best for business because the board of directors is overseeing things and we ultimately do on occasion answer to them. If that's the story, they need to tell it. If it's not the story, what they're doing does not make sense. And that's a problem with everything going on right now. All right,
thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next level with a VIP membership. Get shows like this, the Wait Killer Prosing Podcast, Wait Killer Prosing Post show, and the Pwtorch daily casts on our Pwtorch VIP podcast feed
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Let's let's talk about something else real quick in that, and then we'll go right to calls after that. See them right back and Paul Hayman very odd, memorable, but very odd. Uh, all kinds of subtexts, some speculative. I can't even begin to go into some of the things that I think they're trying to do with this storyline. Did you hate it? Did you find it so absurd? It was actually kind of funny? Where did you fall on this one? I didn't hate it. I found it
so absurd that it was absurd. I didn't think it's funny. I mean I was kind of like, that was actually laugh obvious kind of thing. Yeah, exactly creative. Okay, I get it because you're guys right, you know, I got okay. But besides that, it was just absurd and like what the hell? But again, I didn't hate it. It was just like, okay, that was that was a different Now remember that, Yeah, because it was good, But I don't, like you said
it was memorable? Is the point to get in the line? Sorry, wait, but the line will you be a Paul Hayman guy, because I'm wondering, like, what's he going to ask him? Yeah, because he's not going to ask him to marry him it, yes, you know, but okay, so that it was kind of like, oh that was cute.
Yeah, they had to go somewhere with it. And I mean, is the idea to just I mean, is this just getting heat on Paul Hayman for uh my how to get I think I think people are going to be like, look, oh shucks, Like Hayman went out there and entertained us with the with the you know, thanks man. I think that's kind of weird. Do you think we're supposed to believe, Travis that Paul Hayman is really infatuated with Rybeck and kind of a a straight man gay for him
type way? Like literally, I mean I guess. I mean that's a fine. I mean, I could I could buy the storyline, but but not No, No, I'm supposed to believe Paul Hayman picked but but again he saved him. And it's like, hey, you know, okay, that's a that's a somewhat logical you know, emotion or you know, whatever it to have Okay, you can play off that. That's different. That's fine, that's cool. But no, I'm I don't think to answer the question. We're not supposed to believe it. It's fine, it's kind of
Kafavid. Yeah, sure, all right, Yeah, I just want to make sure I don't go a full twenty minute. I can't believe I had it got in eighteen minutes. It's flying by. I don't want to go full twenty minutes, just without saying breaking bad. Okay, I got all the way the chat room wanted that, Travis. Do you watch that show? By the way, I do not. Okay, you gotta watch it. Then here comes the lecture. Now that's it. You just gotta watch. It's good. All right. Ratings are in and Raw last night did
a two point Have you seen the rating? Strad No, but now I know they did a two point something. Yep, I don't know. I didn't guess because Bruce didn't ask. I don't know what's your guests. From my prediction, I think they would have done what they did the week before. The two point eight one was last week slightly off to eight eight six, Yeah, two point six eight, so they were down a little bit more than you thought. Not a great deal. But it is the lowest
rating since Memorial Day. It's lowest rating I having my chart going back to May. That sounds bad in a way. It is bad. If you would have asked me when they started three hour raw where they'd be on a you know, September thirtieth, twenty thirteen, I mean I would have said probably in the two point five range. I mean just I thought, you know, the three hour raw is gonna water down the rating. I know you don't like talking about ratings, but it's no, no, no,
no, no, no, I actually have no I love ratings. So and I bring this question. I mean, viewer versus viewership. You like viewership nuver spending? Right? Oh yeah, you know I'm a viewership No, but still the whole thing. I like it. But why do we still talk about ratings? Wait? I just want to ask that question, you know, and there's not the Monday Night Wars anymore. Why does it matter? No? No, no, I no, I'm gonna answer it.
Because we yet more access across the board demographically historically and source to source to source, we get more rating numbers than we do viewership numbers. So in order to be able to present a comparison in terms of demographics when we do the key demo numbers, and in order to have consistency from source to source, because sometimes you get ratings from one place before another. In some places give us just ratings, other sources give us ratings and viewership. Why
is it news? But why do we That's on my point, why the whole thing? Why do we talk about it like in comparison to what? And again it's and it's it's coming out of that question. Well, there is no more nitro to compare it with. So why is it even something we look? You know, if it goes up five percent, it's like, that's not a news story, Like, shut up about it? Just kind okay. So you're not asking why do we talk about ratings as opposed
to viewership. You're saying, why do we talk about ratings and viewership period the idea as a story rating? It's because everybody in the wrestling industry cares about it. I mean, it's the death. I mean, yes, we could only talk about it once every three months if we wanted to,
and we'd cover the same territory. But we cover wrestling every single day, and the fact that it did at two point six eight and not a two point two point nine six, says the trend is a little bit down to stead of a little bit up. I mean, I don't think we should blow it out of proportion, but right now the rating is in, and right now it's the top story of the hour in you know, two days, rods doing you know, between two point six and two point nine most
weeks, same thing with Impact. It's a story for a day. But generally speaking it's the larger issue is what it's the long term trend. But I think we cover both, you know, at the Torch pretty fairly, and we try to give the big picture of you speaking a big picture, Travis. A year ago they did a two point five four ratings, so they're actually up from where they were a year ago on the same episode of
Ross. So in that sense, it's a big three because they're a year further into doing three hour format and they've managed, even without John Cena, to be above year ago numbers. So if ww E just looking to pat themselves on the back, that's actually a legitimate reason to pack them pat themselves on the back. Sure, yeah, all right, let's let's go to the phone lines and see what callers have to say. Got number of people on hold? You can get in line six four six, seven, two
one nine eight two eight if you joined us Midstream Live. Travis Bryant is my guest of the East Coast Cast, a PU Torch contributor for how many years have you been doing the East Coast Castle? Five year? Oh for the East Coast Cast? Yeah? Oh crap, Well it's like this three years this September. Yeah, I thought you got just celebrating anniversary. So well it's five years as East Coast Audio with the Torch period and in three
years on blow Talk Radio. Now awesome, very cool. So Travis usually co hosts Bruce on Mondays and sometimes he talks a lot, and sometimes Bruce doesn't let him talk much at all. Just depends on the week. And if I if I, if I'm if I allow Bruce to spell, we roll you. Yeah. All right, well let's let's go phone up phone our phone calls first and begin with there it codes six five one on deck five six one and two O two six five one. Please state your name
and where you're from. Hey, wait, this is Mike from Woodberry. How are you doing today doing good. Haven't heard from you in a while. What's up? What do you got for us? Well, yeah, I'm finally available this time of day, so that's good. Yeah. A couple a couple of questions for you, and one I think i'd like to
hear your thoughts. And this might be a better question for an online audio or a article on the Torch, But you were really gung ho about right around WrestleMania time, thinking the next six weeks are going to be very pivotal, and coming out of it the six weeks after WrestleMania, and I actually had three very good pay per views in a row kind of between WrestleMania and
then in the Summer Slam. It's all kind of come to a screeching halt, obviously, And I want to know where you kind of see some of the lower card guys like the Wyatt's and Fandango who had a lot of backing at first and they cooled off considerably. I want, I wanted your thoughts on where some of those lower mid card guys are at right now and where you see Dusty Rhodes involvement this Sunday at the pay per view as well. Cool? Yeah, good, topics, Tarvis, I gotta throw to you
first. How do you think ww's done with? I don't even know if mid Carter's right. Were new characters like Fon Donggo and the Wyatt who happened to be you know, Fondango's certainly a mid Carter. Your thoughts on how ww's done since April and may with anybody look this up last night with Bruce that we're a year into this talent, this use infusion. I think, you know with the starting if you want to started with the Shield. They showed up in like October and and here we are a year later, and
who are these guys? Who are these people? Like the why it's I mean they've only been around four months or so, but still, who who are these people? What's their motivation? Why are they here? Why do they care about being in this structure of pro wrestling? We don't know who We just don't know who they are. And that's where they really would have boiled down to. And I think that's kind of that's going to be the norm. We're not gonna I mean, because do we really even know who
John Seena is? I think we know who John Seena is, well, character yeah, No, that's why I'm yeah, but he's well, yeah, they've hadn't didn't have much choice with when they push and push and push. You got to kind of flush those things out. But we don't know who these these people are, and and become WrestleMania thirty, they're just going to be a few of them, not all of those guys are going to be on WrestleMania, and they're going to just be cogs in that opening hour
that opened in two hours of WrestleMania. And I don't think they're going to mean anything. Yeah maybe the shield. The shield meant something at WrestleMania twenty nine, and they'll mean something, yeah, but that's it. Do you think Fondegos has gotten the appropriate push, Travis since his you know EBB and flow since his debut? Yes, yeah, I kind of do too.
You know, I know some people thought because of a big crowd reaction after Assomania, and I just yeah, I think because of some of the crowd reactions to Fondogo, people have thought, well, he should get a bigger push, And I mean, you know, watching him on Total Deep you watch Total devis right, Travis, and you've got your opinions on the show, I thought Mark Curtis or what's Fondago's real name, Johnny Johnny Curtis, thank you, Yeah, I was. I always think Mark Curtis and always
trot myself up. What do you think of how he came across on that show? He came across like well, in the early stuff he was just kind of backstage, but then when he got the one episode he was a featured a little bit in he was a you know, some scum bad guy. Yeah. Like, I just not really fault him for that. He's just trying to score with the hot chick right right ad at him. Yeah, if the way he went about it, like, gee, that's your
that's what you do. Yeah, I guess with with with his character, I mean it is it's just kind of a one note gimmick and until well, his gimmick in the n XT though, Wait, he was the creepy I mean, and that's like who he is. That's I think that's how
why he came across. When I saw the Hilda Deeva stuff, I'm like, oh, no, wonder the creeper gimmick and the n HT works so well because it's just him and he's like Oh, I can do it these like fantasy things or I'm like smelling girls feet and coming up from behind him and crying it on him. Oh yeah, sure, I can put my all into that absolutely. So I guess my point is is Fondango's character, the Fandango character is somewhat limiting, and it has a certain spot, and
it's kind of likes Los Metadores with El Tardo. It's there to play a certain role. It's kind of the broadest play spot. You know. You're there to add a little zas, a little collar, a little circus like atmosphere to www house shows, so that it, you know, but but there's a certain spot for it, and there's a certain limit on it, and it takes something special to break away from it. And I just don't think Fondango has shown me that he should be much higher on the cards.
So I'm actually fine with where I'm fine, not great, but fine with what they've done with with with him, and actually even the shield. I know, people, I have a bigger problem with Dolf Siegler and and Uh and Daniel Bryan. I don't think they should have turned Dolf unless they were ready to really go all out with him as a baby face, because I think they've lost the lightning bolt of energy get from turning somebody if you turn
them and you're not ready to push them. And I know the concussion screwed it up and that would be their excuse. But that's to me the biggest loss since then. But I mean, just looking at the Rosterman, they lost John Cena. I don't think the tribes had the wide family lost momentum or are they just kind of treading water until the next stage and whatever the next thing you're done, Well, I think just I think just by almost
by default they've had they had no choice but to lose momentum. They aren't gonna come in with those in those vignettes, and then the whole mystique, I oh, what are they going to look like in the ring? Okay, well what were you going to look like? In singles? What are they gonna look like? Beating up people are gonna look like? Selling? And so yeah, sure they've lost momentum, but they've lost it, and then they're still they're still getting featured. They're still they're kind of in in
their spot. They're not going up, they're not going down. They're you know, they'll beat up three and B every week or you know, I wonder it'll be interesting to see what they do when they if they put him in there with Lows Matadors, or will they you know, keep them apart. Not because I think Lewis Madadors has some kind of drawing power or ability
to get over in the future. I just it would be interesting if they just to see it's like immediate squash these guys, all right, just established him as a joke Mattador thing with the little guy in the in the silly suit, in the Philly full thing. So yeah, I mean, I think when they decide to turn up the White Family and get him in a full fledged program and not just kind of have them in they're kind of treading water introductory phase. They did the thing with Kine that's going to resolve itself
at some point. And you know, I mean the fact that the announcers aren't talking more about it and talk a little bit about it, but it's kind of weird. Well, I was just watching it. Oh it was what I was watching the Nitro from nineteen ninety seven yesterday while doing some bookkeeping for the business, and uh, and it was like Tony Schmony's like, we haven't seen Sting for six weeks. Where is he? Everyone's talking about it, and it reminded me of the Kane storyline. Kane's gone missing,
and it's just it seems like it's it, but who cares. When he comes back, they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, they kind of dropped the thing on his head sort of, And I just think, yeah, I know all about that clap for this because it's Kane and he's back. I guess I didn't really realize he was going, but okay, yeah, do you remember when Hulk Hogan shocked the world and formed the New World Order? Or when Stone Coat Steve Auston passed down on the Sharpshooter to break
the hit Man Hart. I'm Torch contributor Frank petty Any and I've reviewed these shows and many more from my exclusive VIP podcast, Pro Wrestling Than and Now. Together with a rotating chair of co hosts, we go back ten, twenty, even thirty years, review pay per views from top to bottom, talk about where the wrestlers were at the time, and compare what took place
then to what is taking place now. You get exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part of your pw twrch VIP membership, which is compatible with the Apple Podcasts app Visit pwtorch dot com, slash go vip for deedsails and sign up for him. Hey, Mike, remind me of your second question. Uh, where you guys see Dusty Rhodes involvement Sunday. There have been
rumors that he was going to be in the match. I'm really glad to see he's not because of his advanced age, and I'd like to see him not wrestful because of what happened to Jerry Ler quite frankly, but I want to see I want to know what you guys think coming this Sunday, Travis.
I just watching Dusty roll into the ring last night. I mean it's clear that they're just from watching him move and then the way that the Shield, you know, they've they've prevented him big show hugging him so we don't take a bump, the Shield stomping on him from a down position, not having him take a bump. They're being very careful with Dusty. They don't want, you know, an issue, and I mean Jerry Lawler in a way was an isolated incident. But it also isn't in the sense that people
even without Jerry Lawler, I don't. Yeah, you want, but these are the same people that put may Young out there in those situations. So I still I still have that image Travis made almost fell through the rose bad was right there, which you on edge of my seat, like only crad somebody grabber no no yeah, no, yeah yeah. And more than just getting thrown through the table and all that stuff, the the image of her almost all looking backwards through those groups. I mean, and we haven't seen
her do anything since then. I think w E was like, okay, we that was that was true. She's on someone's arm every two people are like walk with her every time she's on camera. And so yeah, even without Lawler, you don't have Dusty doing anything. And I think they officially said he wants. His stipulation is I want to be in their corner so they'll provide typical kind of you know, rallying cries for the baby faces and some distraction, you know, and a thing for the camera to focus on
during the match. Do we get a b I think we have to get a bone elbow. Don't we do the shield charge at them one at a time and take some bone elbows. Would that get a pop or is that two n WA or what? I don't think. I don't think even I don't think it would Buffalo. I don't know, but it's a pay per view audience. I still I think the pop would be tepping at best. Uh. But even if even if they knew we could over, I don't think they would he would do it. What would you? I don't think
they would allow they would. I don't think they would script that to happen. No. As a sidebar to Mike's main question, what do you think of of of Triple H's a portrayal of Dusty as you know, not making it outside of that, that little n WA thing that he was part of it, the little Florida things, Florida mad even well he said Florida and that n w A but liked he okay, yeah, he said, you
know, you're bitter because you didn't make it outside of Florida. And I think he said something like that, that n WA thing, you know that you're probably it was just it was because Triple H. By the way, I mean, there's times where Triple A Harley race enthusiasts, and yeah, yeah, Triple H knows his history and he knows the end up with the A was big. I know that Stephanie may not know that because he grew
up in the McMahon could you know, Bubble. I mean, you know, there's a sense if you're in New York and you're in the Northeast and you're part of the company that you know won the eighties, won the nineties and is dominant in the two thousands, you know you think, well, we were always the biggest and by far, and they just weren't. In
the end of WA was was huge. In fact, we have a asked the Torch All Star panel question of regarding who is bigger than a w A or the n w A on Today's on Today's post on the website that historians Greg Oliver and George Shire responded to. But yeah, I mean the Triple H knows better. He did that to get heat with basically historian n WA
fans. He knows better. Do you think Wait, if he could go back and change, like if he could go back twenty years or whenever he started letting people know Harley Race was his guy, and you just say, you know, Bruno is my guy. So when all those DVDs when he's talking about you know, he's like, oh yeah, Bruno grew up.
You know, I was raising you know, the Northeast because it was my guy every Saturday whatever, you know, instead of Harley R. I mean that's kinda like, you know, Vince is like, oh yeah, now's your guy. Huh. It doesn't matter at this point, but I just wonder if he thinks about that. Yeah, well yeah, so Mike, did we cover your topics well? And then some oh absolutely a great discussion.
Uh. The only two points I'll leave you with that I kind of have is, uh, you know, I think Triple H would have if Killer Kowlowski was alive and needed to be involved in an angle, somehow Triple H would make fun of his two pay I mean, there isn't anybody that's
safe from his rap. So I just kind of brushed that up. I'm not offended, but I wasn't offended by that comment or anything any other kind of sidebar comment I have is if over the years, we're going to establish that Daniel Bryant is a troll over that a watch TV who is a vegan
and is weird and reads books and stuff like that. If that's work, if that's what we're going to establish, then uh, all that gets you one of the Bellat twins at the end of the day, then I'm gonna stop watching television, quit eating meat, and grow facial hair because I because whatever he has it, it obviously worked. So I was kind of off put by including one of the Bellat twins and that kind of I don't know which is which, to be quite honest with you, Yeah, but nois
well one of them has plastic surgery and the other one has it. I don't know which is which. Okay, I'm just saying all that, But but you're not saying you don't you don't notice a difference. Just I don't know who's okay, gotcha? Ah yeah, yeah, okay, But that's all. That's all. That's all I'm saying. That's all. Leave you with guys, Scot Daniel Bryant, Thanks, thanks, Mike, appreciate it.
And way to shoe horn their relationship in there and leave and then not only so she can run out there and boo, stop it, stop it, you know, make him look even more pathetic and weak. They got beat up in front of his fiance now not even his Carol is what a chump? Why would I pay to see him even if I know he's gonna win? Like I don't whatever people want fans, Yes, they like an
underdog, but they like an underdog. And Bruce has been sounding do you have to end every statement with yes, yeah, or you know, like every big like yeah. You know, it's like almost like what do you like let the crowd pop themselves like you don't have to. It's every instance, it's it's popular, it's over now. You don't need to force it to the point where it seems kind of kind of clicheated, and it was just weird, like you wouldn't say yes at the end of what you just
said. Yeah, the does I have almost my brain just doesn't want to try to figure out what's going on in the Diva's division on Raw and try to meld that into what's going on on Total Diva's. Try to explain to me to help me understand. Does what happened last night with Nikki and and Daniel Bryan Brie and Daniel Bryan. I think I was just thinking it's easy
to remember because it's anyway with Brian and Dania Bryan. Does it make any sense compared to what happened the last three four weeks on Ross since they started doing the Total Diva storyline, even though they never really told people much about enough to well, they hugged last week, so that was your in, Yeah, that was your you know, and I think, but how about this in relation to a j and what they're trying to do with that, Well, Bree still was a heel. She's like doing the l and her
fourhead like loser. You know, she's still a freaking jerk, you know, and care as I'm Bree Bey, you know, as Brie Bella, the the Diva, the wrestler. She's still you know, So it's yeah, no, totally it. Yeah. I mean this guy who like is so socially conscious you would assume and read books, how dare he and you know takes care of his body inside and now uh, he's like why would he be with this, you know exactly this lady? I know, yeah,
no it did. It's a mess and it's just you know, they they booked W W E books for convenience on a week to week basis, and they don't care about uh going backwards, like and there's no spoilers here, but I will do a breaking bad reference because I did listen to Vin skill against uh near hour and a half plus, you know, like hour and a half podcast yesterday. I think he was on Colbert. I was pretty good last night. Yeah, yeah it was. And uh, you
shouldn't be watching any of any spoilers, Travis. You gotta watch the show
start to finish, a trial void spoilers. The best show on television in history, probably all right, the but nevertheless, Vin Skilling was talking about how when they when they are writing scripts week to week, because they didn't plan this whole series out start to finish, there was not an outline for the show they I mean the last night on the podcast yesterday, Breaking that Insider, he went over all these different scenarios that they brainstormed, and I
mean, they clearly settled on the best finish compared to all the other options
they thought of. But he said, what they would do is they go back and think about what the actors did at a little facial expression, a little reaction that was just the actor just being in the moment, and they would look at that detail from two seasons ago and go, we're going to use that as a launching point for this new direction for this character, because fans of the show who pay attention to detail will appreciate that rewarded them for
noticing that two years ago, and that the actor was in the character felt it reacted to the situation organically. We're going to use that as a springboard for this this season's direction that this character goes in that rewards a viewer. W w E is the opposite they go Vincent Man's attitude is, well, if it happened in the past, nobody remembers, so we don't have to worry about it. And by past, maybe that's even two or three weeks
ago. And if someone paid he's really close attention to things, they're a mark and they're stupid, and that's not the business we're in. We're forward thinking. It's like, it's such different approaches to writing. And I know there's somewhat different genres, but and I said this on the Keller Hotline, if you could make pro wrestling better by simply being less lazy, being more professional, and having a better attention to detail and all other things are equal,
and you end up better, why not do that? Because I think there is a benefit to being consistent with your narrative and caring week to week about consistency and drawing from your history in a way that makes sense. I think that helps drive storylines. I mean, Vince Gilligan went the first episode of this season five. He did two things where he had no idea where they were leading, but there were flagpoles he put in there, and he says, we're going to have to write with these things in mind to have
them make sense. And they weren't so specific. He didn't know. He wouldn't have lots of options, but he had lots of directions. He could have gone with it, but it helped. It helped steer him. It gave him a direction, goes, we have to end up resolving this in the end, he'll lead up. We just sticks flight pulls in the ground and they don't. They don't actually care about whether they're going. It's gotten to the point where not you don't you're not getting the you're not getting the
typical it's just wrestling yeah kind of attitude. Now it's like it's almost like, uh, you know, like what do you expect? Like you're looking too much into it. The Internet's like like Why is it an Internet thing? Why? Like, Okay, this is the platform to like bitch and moan about it. Sure, but it's not an Internet issue. It's like a storytelling thing in you know. So I think it's even it's even getting more pervasive because it's like not even just it's you know, just I come
on, it's just wrestling. It's like now it's like you're looked at. It's like, oh, you're in, and you're gonna complain about it too, which you know, I guess I understand because we could just not watch, but there's nothing else to watch. I want they want, They just want us to eat, eat what they serve us and not complain because they're the royal great McMahon family and the last surviving relevant wrestling promotion and and that should that should tell us all we need to know. So just you know,
eat what they serve us. And you know, I mean, we could do a five minute show and just say how great they are, but like I say, we're not. We're not Triple H's mom and dad. You know, we're not here to just worship him. We're not fanboys for w W who just go yeah, you know, I mean I can be somewhat of a fan boy for a couple of my local sports teams, but I don't disrespect. In fact, I look to the reporters who are objective and aren't you know, they're not their worse for the team. You know
that in every other in every other genre, that's expected. Camp Root, you can't clamp your hands, Larry Fitzgerald, Dan can't even you know, pump his fish horse son. You know, the press pause is in the press box because there are reasons, and in wrestling it's that's none of that is respected. Yeah, absolutely, all right, Well, let's try to go to color number two forty five minutes. Is in the show Travis our number six or six seven, two one, nine, eight two eight.
We are taking VIP members first on the VIP Express line. If you're not sure what that is, what we tell you about it all the time on vi IP audio, and we can't say the secret on the air or people would line cheat and steal to get ahead and line. So let's go to h air code five six one. Next. Please stay to name and where you're from. This is maps, North Carolina. How's it going doing good? Matt? Thanks for letting us know you were calling ahead, What have
you got for us to stay? Absolutely? I got three questions for you. First, with the Breaking Bad talk no spoilers, no spoilers, and no spoilers just step okay, spoilers all right, Breaking Bad and PW Torch fans want to know what is Wake Kellor. Star rating for the Breaking Bad finale? Oh, five stars, five starts awesome? Yeah eight I first words out of my mouth, first words out of my mouth, start Travis.
After it was over that the first words were a plus. I mean, I just I there's not I mean, there's a couple of things I knitpicked on the Keller hotline, not I talked about it. I did a normal length Keller hot line on Sunday night, and then I did like eight minutes talking about Breaking Back because people asked me to do that, you know, and so you can tune out before then. It's not like it was in place of wrestling coverage. I'd one email complaining going what you know?
But I was a spoiler spoiler running all that. But yeah, I like there are two or three little coincidences that I think we're relatively unavoidable, not a big deal. And if you can kind of talk your way into seeing how you know, Walter White probably had alternate plans and things didn't work out perfectly. And even even Vince Gilligan acknowledged that on his podcast. Yeah, you know, you kind of have to if that didn't work, he could
have done this and that. But yeah, A plus five stars absolutely greatest finale to any series that I've seen. There's a lot of great series I haven't seen. I haven't watched the Sopranos yet, believe it or not. But people who whose podcasts I listened to watch all the series and rank them all and love the Wire and the Sopranos have justified the ones that have had finales, the ones that are that they believe are great, great series.
The Shield odds on and on there, and I know it's it's sort of like, you know, when there's a great USC fight, it's like greatest fight ever. And Dana White kind of makes fun of people at the press conference going in three months, this is going to blend in with all the other great fights. You've just got the adrenaline rush, and I get all that. But the people who really are critical the show when they think they should be all Matt Unison in Unison, saying this was probably the greatest final
episode to one of the great all times TV series. It just really came together. Vince Kelligan's really happy with it too. I mean you can just tell he's proud of himself and the staff. But that's it. I'm sorry I'm gushing too much, but it's a great Joe. You can support us on Patreon and get these shows with ads and plugs removed, the Wait Killer Prosing podcast, Weight Killer Prosing post shows, and the PW Torch daily casts throughout the week with ads and plugs removed, plus a few bonus VP shows
throughout the month for just four dollars and ninety nine cents a month. Check it out patreon dot com slash PW Torch v I P. That's patreon dot com slash PW Torch VIP and you can also upgrade two other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon. Go ahead back, Yeah, I agree,
I loved it. Yeah. Two more quick topic. It seems like the storylines in WW are kind of going backwards, like becoming more watered down instead of you know, building up like the CM punk thing like it started with the Big Nats with Brock Glasmer and then got watered down to Curtis Axel, and now it's getting water down the right back. No, right back, Bryan, right back to step up from Curtis. I disagree with you on that, but it's clad's close, all right. Well, someone on the
cham room sit there watering down the Paul Hayman guy. Gimmick was right about, you know, and I say, Paul Hayman's life in the storyline. So, I mean, my god, if you're gonna be Paul, if you're not, if you save Paul Hayman's life from a guy who wants to break your face and you don't become Paul Hayman guy from that, I can I have storyline wise, I can deal with that. But if you're if you're one of those Internet smarts like t Blache would snidely say, yeah,
right back, certainly isn't a Paul Hayman guy in that rest. I don't think Paul sat around a year ago going, oh man, if I could have just had him in ecor bys and control of TNA, I try to higher Ryback. I mean, I don't think Ryback qualifies as a genuine Paul Hayman guy. But I think Paul Hayman had something something to say about him being his next guy as opposed to Big Ee or you know, somebody else.
Yeah, it just seems like the storylines is going backwards, like like even with Danie O'Brien, the belt and the Jaws confetti and he beats John Cena on the Big Gastommers plan on stage, and now it's like it's just becoming watered down with all this Randy Orton Triple H stuff. It just seems like their storylines are going in reverse, like all the big moments happened, and now we're getting the water down version rather than building up to those moments.
I totally hear that, Travis, What do you think I mean, I think he's I think he's on the Sun's in a Yeah, Paul the fuse. Yeah, if you're looking at the like you know a graph or
a chart, yeah, it's peaking around me. But but I would say this in their defense that WrestleMania, they booked to peak at Mania, they booked to peak at SummerSlam, and now we're kind of in the all season where you know, like you said, you know it's NXT in the shield, it's when they kind of try to debut new new gimmick sometime you know, between you know, sometime in September and October tends to be when they
try to start some new stuff up. They've got the three pay per views in a row rapid fire, so they can't really do full fledge finishes. I mean, there's just a lot of things kind of seasonally working against this being a peak period. They're going to downshift a little bit headed into January and March, and that's just that's the nature and the ebb and flow of w w E. They don't have seasons, but they do, and this
is in a way a down season. So in that respect, I wouldn't expect them to top rock Lessner or to not be I mean, there's I'm not saying there aren't better ways to keep Daniel Bryan hot. But we shouldn't be shocked that this isn't that we're not seeing the Paul Hayman Punk feud growing Travis is them. Is CM punk himself losing any ground in the way that this storyline is going. Yeah, I don't think he can say anything, but yeah, yeah, but again it's now losing ground. You want to
be a little more. I don't know is is he is? He's spinning his wheels a lit all? Is he are? But that happens. I mean you have to you know, that's one of those things. It's like, Okay, well you're not going to be you know, you just look at you know, you just look at the last six you know, he's just started January. You know, Rock Rock, Undertaker, Brock. How can you keep that? How can in October? What could he do in
October that would make you say anything? But he's, uh, he's kind of not really doing anything, Like whoa look at what he at the first half of this year, the first two thirds of his year was like yeah, you know, yeah, I mean go Undertaker, right, no, Rock Rock, then Undertaker, in the Undertaker then Brock. Yeah, that's the ridiculous stretch of you know, the main event talent working with yeah, I mean Matt. With that in mind, it would be tough to not
have to get the perception that Punk is downshifting a little bit. I'm not quite sure what they could have done from a star Power standpoint to not make it look like he's kind of moving down an ouch with kurtif Axel and Rabbick, which I just think those storylines should have peaked with those moments rather and then after those moments they should have shifted to something totally new with Daniel Bryan and Kayme Punk Raban starting with the big moment and then watering down the storylines,
you know, like this stuff should have been happening before, and then those big moments with Lessner and and you know, Brian winning and confetti, they should have kind of that SummerSlam, is what I guess I'm saying, and then they should have moved on to something totally new with those characters.
Well, I mean there's yeah, there's no doubt that. I mean, Daniel Bryan peaked at SummerSlam during the celebration and it was all Downhill winter Blache glombed onto the Daniel Brown's popularity and and you know became the story, and Orton became the story, not Daniel Bryan. And then I mean we've been through all that, so yeah, he's been heard about it anyway, Matt, thanks for recall. Appreciate it. I had one more, Oh sure, go ahead. Sorry, yep, just about just with all the talk
about heels and the effectiveness of playing a heel and stuff like that. A lot of stuff going on with Triple H and Randy Orton stuff. Who do you think has been the best deal in the past fifteen years? The criteria being who played their role the best, not who drew the most money, who won the belt, but who do you think has been the most effective heal? Not counting characters you know, like Paul Hayman Evince, but in the past fifteen years, what wrestler do you think it's say their role the
best is a heal? That's that's another thank again. Okay, Matt, Matt, don't go. Don't go because that's the type of question that I like sent to, like you know, for the way Keller hot line, because I can read the question, I can think about it and that kind of thing. Give give me a few candidates that you had to mind because you've thought about this since it's your question. Give Travis and I a few candidates kind of pick from, not that we won't come up to somebody you
don't mention, but throw through three four names at that. Do you think our candidates? Yeah, I was, I was actually having some trouble, like you know, yeah, I don't know anything off the top, somebody that popped, somebody that just popped in my mind, as far as just the way they cleared a role and they need stand out, Like he really gets food. I know he hasn't like had any BIG's user and cues or anything, but he goes out there and he does a good job at making
the crowd hate him and wanting him to be penned. So so your criteria pretty good, Yeah, Matt, So your criteria is not sssarily being a main event draw your criterias who actually is a genuine heel who gets heal heat. Yeah, I mean, I mean you have to do runs because it's you know, Jared Code eight to twenty ten, age three oh four to oh six, Like he's like that brock Lesner currently JBL. Definitely when he
came back a year or so ago. And yeah, yeah, I guess Rock was Brock was kind of an important guy when Rock left and then Rock totally, but yeah, you know that's not his Uh again, you're that's not his criteria? Oh no, no, I know I'm kind of answering. I guess sure by way and then and then JBL that was really good. Oh yeah, yeah, I mean when you when you kick a Mexican in the ass across back across the border. I mean, how do you
not love that guy? Yeah, so, Matt, I again, that's the topic, probably not best for this format to cover adequately, but maybe send it in too, both me and Bruce, uh, you know, for for the VP shows, because we like to do ten fifteen minutes and sometimes with Bruce an hour on that kind of stuff. And it's a good topic. So yeah, send that in. Appreciate the call. Let's uh, let's go to our next call with another VIP Express color here Eric code
six two three six two three. Thanks for holding so on. Please stay your name and where you're from. Bie. This is born in Austin. Comments from Seeings Arizona. Hey Brian, good from you. What's going on? Good to you? Hear from you and travels on a Tuesday. Yeah, by way way, this is and that's so much Travis. By the way way, this is the first time you and I fasted to each other. Oh really, well, I feel I know you well from all your
emails, and it's great to talk to you. I absolutely genuinely appreciate your support and your membership, and every time I see an email from you. I know it's gonna be a good one. So enough enough kissing, but though go ahead, correct, I agree, I agree about that first. First of all, normally I'm not here at home at this time, but I'm a victim of the government shut down. I'm a contractor that I've worked for the Air Force and you know we're basically told not to come to work
today. So that's really want I'm calling now. Unfortunately. Yeah, I love the story the World War two veterans who showed up at the war memorial in DC today and got turned away. You know, sorry, you can't go in, And I mean it's just yeah, it's go go out. Those are just a bunch of thought liberal stop stories. But yeah, putting a camera on those poor bar it's a whole saint. The whole thing's in
a barratt. It's it's funny. It's I'm not getting into politics state because I have my opinions aren't always predictable, and I don't think anyone else tune into here, but it is. It's on a lighter note. I guess it's kind of somewhat comical when when you're on Facebook and you get to see when stuff like this happens the bubbles different people live in and the pride some people take and not living in a bubble and just acting like there's false equivalency
across the board. It's it's quite the day. I've I've It's hard, but I've I've been. I've been not trying to be zero political on Facebook anymore because I took Bruce's advice on that, and I think it's good advice. But just for me, maybe a round election time will change. I would agree, Yeah, go ahead, I'd agree, and we'll get off the Yeah, we'll get off policies, gonna go back to wrestling or breaking back, and I have and this is yeah, this is more. This
is like a little more in the week old. But about the Shield, And I've heard about this on all the Torch shows, the p w P Torts Live Cash shows, Left to say about the Shield eleven on three, the thing that and then some people complaining that, well they're trying to either term face or they might become facial, or we're they're going to become faces. Then one thing I think that everybody should remember that and they showed it last night twice, is that for the most part, the Shield has won
by you know, cheating or triple teaming. Yeah, they've gotten a lot of clean tense, but then the majority of their their work has been either jumping people or you know, a legal tag or maybe the replents fly by and something happens. So they're never it's in me except for that. Yeah, like you said, way how they coming lamps back? And Triple late
said it will be eleven on three. Yeah, But other than that they've been total heeled completely forgot about that last night or not forgot about it, but forgot like or not forgot, but it was just like, yeah, nothing, I'm not We're not better over the eleven on three. No, not even a week later. Is there any ramifications from that? Nobody's I know, you know not. Yeah, I told Bruce last night, like
that's what's going to happen. They're not even going to bring it up in that context of artist shield like manage Triple H or is Triple H still going to is he still out to punish his sheep? Nope, don't even talk about it's not even well it's it's and I kind of I kind of do this as a technique and sometimes it gets like lost on Bruce, but I gotta bring him up. But like I said last week, well you know, if the shield is turning baby face, you know, maybe this,
you know, it might be a better way to do it. But this is planning the seed for their baby face turns. So it totally makes sense. But if that's not the intent, it's Ludacris, it's ludacristen onjust fible and you know amateur hour and blah blah blah and indictment of triplagianisic man. And look again again with the with the how people like view you know, wrestling now fans, the people that you know that they count on, they
just have them trained. Last night on the chat room off, I don't have to hear about this eleven on three match again, like it was the main event for the show last week, and you're like pitching like, oh, shut up about it. It's for crying out loud. It just happened. It's a topic of discussion and just move on. This is why we get abused and treat it like we do as fans. We don't deserve really long term storylines and breaking bad type suspense and they don't deserve that. We
crap all over it. Anyway, we as a whole, as the internets, you know, it's like, yeah, people give me a hard time, like Wade, you're being so hard on Triple ch Why are you so obsessed with him? And it's like, no, I'm not obsessed with them. He's the central heel on the number one show in the industry I cover full time, who also happens to be air apparent to Vince McMahon, the
most dominant promoter in history. He's married to the daughter of Vince McMahon, and he is the initiative, the initiator of the Performance Center, and he's putting himself out there like he never has before. With a grant Land interview.
It's like, he's what we call in the news and worthy of incredible day to day scrutiny and coverage, and so you know, I'm sorry, but I'm I'm not gonna switch to talking about ro O Wah at length because instead of Triple H. When Triple H keeps making news because he's the central figure in TV and obviously the driving force behind a lot of the top storylines
and happens to be co running the top company. So yeah, exactly, it's like drive us is our job, and because something happened more than seventy two hours ago doesn't mean we have to drop it and move on. Sometimes we do when I would do too often in this age, I think about how differently I cover wrestling now and how much less reflective I am to a fault than in the pre Internet days. Doing the Progressing Torch newsletter, I've
done that since nineteen eighty seven. We didn't start a website till nineteen ninety nine. The first twelve years, first twelve years and two months of this it was I mean I was doing daily nine hunder lines for a long stretch of time in the nineties, but it was do a newsletter, step back, exhale for thirty six hours, kind of start planning the next thing, reflect spend a couple of days writing an article talking about you know we used
to do. I did a Midsummer annual for the first sever years of the Torch where we would do six month awards, like through the mid year while the leading candidates for Match of the Year wrestl or the Year Top Heel, and there was so much more time for reflection, and part of that was we didn't have three hour raws and to our Impacts and to our smackdowns and NXT on Hulu, and totally it's like there's so much coming at you so fast there isn't time for reflection. But it's all the more reason to make
sure that we don't drop topics after seventy two hours. And when something relatively ludicrous in every fundamental way, like an eleven on three match with eleven baby faces against three heels, including several main event baby faces on that team, happens, it's drives. You don't just let them off. The oak can go well. Seventy tours went by. It's kind of like the political cycle.
Now. If a politician just lies, lies for whatever kind of corrupt reason, once twenty four hours goes by, they know they're off the hook because the whole new cycles onto something else and somebody tweet a picture of their parts and you know they'll talk about that, or some stupid pop tart will yea sugar butt and yeah. Every Sunday night, catch Wrestling Night in America
on Pwtorch Dailycast dot Com, hosted by me Pwtrch columnist Greg Parks. Each week, I'll welcome a co host from the Torch family to discuss the big shows and pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails. You can listen live most weeks the beginning at eight pm Eastern on Sunday nights with a WWE or Impact pay per view, we go on the air. At the conclusion of that pay per view, you can listen live, but of course, the
full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs. Visit pwtorch dailycast dot com and click the live stream link to find the next scheduled live show link. Search Pwtorch and Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe Wrestling Night in America every Sunday, pwtrch Dailycast dot com. All right, Brian, well back back to you. Well, Anny, I don't even know if we addressed fully your topic yet, so let's know if you're happy
or you gotta follow up. Did we lose fridverment shut them down? Yeah? Well, Brian, it was good to hear from you. I don't like the circumstances of our first time talking on the phone. You know, it sucks that we're told not to go to work today, but appreciate your support over the years and it's great tiar from you. All right, let's go to our next VIP call here. I'm it's good to put your the key in the subject lines so we can find find you right away. I
can't see anybody else jumping out. I gotta look again. Let's just go to the person who's been on hold the longest area code two or three, two or three. Thanks for holding. Please state your name and where you're from. Two oh three? Hold on, block talk's churning, hold on, n blame the switch blue right now, I'm gonna blame Bruce. He did something wrong. Better. Yeah, it's still spinning, still spinning, still spinning. Oh now he's on all right, two l three, Sorry
about that. Please state your name and where you're from two or three. After all that, you gotta be there. Ah lost him? All right, I got other callers on hold, so I will put you on hold, and in fact, i'll hang up on you so if you call back, i'll know that you're actually wanting to be on the show. Let's go next to uh Eric code eight six five eight six fively states name and where
you're from eight six five. Oh, don't make me blame blog talk now all right, I'm going to uh, let me look up in an email question here in case there is an issue going on with UH with blog talk. Efron emailed and uh Efron emailed and uh, he wanted to know if we were okay with the heels wearing the breast cancer t shirts last night on the show, and if you would have had any different thought, any differently
about it if it was a child abuse prevention month. Yeah, it was a kind of a bit of an issue last year when they did it, because I think only the baby faces did it. They mean, you know, for for that month, Damian sand Out changed it. He didn't wears like his pink kneepad and Dolph Ziegler, you know, bore more the past out blues and you know he stayed away from the pink for for for October and then literally November first they were back in their pink stuff and their pink
rope was gone and that was over This year, different approach. I don't have a problem with it. It's why would I have a problem or even think twice I could just be like, oh, they were told here's this year you're going to wear on the air, and they put their head down and was like Okay, thank you, missus mcmaheron, And yeah, you
know that's that's my problem with the travises. I think if a feel walks out like like, uh, the real Americans and they're wearing a breath cancer wearing a T shirt, I look at them as corporate cogs doing some corporate you know, the corporate gagov And I mean, it's it's nice. Obviously it's better corporations charity work than if they don't. But obviously corporations do charity work and flaunt it because they want to feel good about themselves and justify other
things. It's just it's just what corporations do. It's better that they do it then they don't. But let's not pretend it's out of the goodness of their heart. The goodness of their heart is quietly giving a ton of money to charity and not drawing attention to them, patting themselves on the back. And as we know how and WW is just they're they're like every other corporation.
There's good and bad with it. But when wrestlers outlaw wrestlers heels are out there wearing the T shirt that management tells them to wear, it's it's similar but different than you know, the Wyat's having official T shirts for sale. It's just it takes away part of the different than those guys wearing because they work for the company. Companies sell whatever they want, put their faces
on whatever they want, button smugs. They don't have to come out sipping out of a you know, Wyatt's family, you know service yea or what have you. Yeah, Yeah, I just I'm glad, I mean put this. I'm glad Randy Orton didn't wear a pink T shirt. I think that would have just I mean, I think that the fact that he didn't tells us that ww at least was aware or Randy Orton was self aware that that's would be I'm not saying a gimmick killer, but it really it's just.
But in a way, you can also make the case Randy Jordon of all people should be Yeah, I'm I'm it's that's a promo whole narrative of Triple Hi and Stephanie. These jerks running this company that we're supposed to financially spor feel good about even though all the profit goes into their pockets and they're you know, just awful people. And now, but We're supposed to think, well, ww is a good company because Stephanie and Triplat are initiating this
breast cancer awareness campaign. So it's like, what should Randy Orton do? I don't know. It's it's why having the faces of your company be awful people is a problem. It leads to and doubly awful when you go into ue and talk about faces of companies. Yes, yes, absolutely, it's Triple A and Stephanie. All they think about in their lives is the corporation of WWE, how they're perceived on Wall Street, how they're perceived in the
corporate community. There there. I'm trying to think of the analogy, but they're they were part of this, this shunned industry, and no matter how successful they were, people just snidely looked at, oh, you're a pro wrestler, you're in the pros industry. Instead of embracing that, it's want to know, I want to be that so bad. I want to be
something that I'm obviously not. They let me know every time, these corporate snooty old money people, you know, they let you kidding, They let those they let them make mands, and that's why they feel the way they do. They let they feel that when they're around all that old money, that legacy money that never go and broke money. You know, they feel that and they just want to be that so bad. I mean that works on I mean, it's just societally, it's when you see it over and
over with everyone. I mean just yeah, well then and that is a thing. I mean, And and so they they are they come across as new money in the sense that they were so excited to be taken seriously as a corporation now and we and we just you know, and then also just the people they hire are from outside the wrestling of the stry now and they come in they go, this is how things are done, you know. You know, the more you know, NBC and NFL cares, you know
whatever. I mean, it's just all that. It's just they're doing what corporations do. But he just comes across as big marks for being accepted in the corporate community after being shunned and part of this underground, you know thing for so long. And it's it's just from a distance that you kind of look at and go, well, if that makes you feel good about yourself,
fine, but it hurts the product. But even worse is when the storyline on a storyline on air just is so contradictory within the same show. You know, Triblachian stuff for awful people, but we want you to be aware of breath cancer and the real Americans you should boo them. But they care enough to wear a T shirts or they're forced too, so they're not
really independent minded people. They're just corporate cogs. It just plays into the whole thing of do not cross the line or you're fired, and everyone hanging their head and big show crying because he has no job options other than you know, being a dorman. So it's just it's all right, let's let's let's give a shot to seven or two. It's a VIP Express caller. Uh seven o two, Please state your name and where you're from seven o
two. That seems like we might have a problem with the phone lines with log talk. My apology to everybody. This happened a week ago Friday, where let me ask a chet Hopefully they can't. Let's see, I'm gonna ask a chat room. Can you hear the callers? Well, because when I went a week ago, you mean, if they hear the caller saying hello, hello, Hello, yeah, and like we can't because that actually happened with Jerry Jarrett on the Jerry Jarrett Interview a week and a half ago
on Friday, blog talk had a technical problem. It turned into a big deal, and I was the first one to bring them more. But they could hear the callers couldn't death hosts. But chat room says no, sorry, uh seven or two. I don't know what's going on, but we may have to just shift email questions. I'm gonna try a couple more callers, just to be double shure. Seven seven Oh, I'm gonna bring you on here. Seven seven oh are you there? Seven seven? Have you
tried unplugging it and plugging it back in? Very good? No? No, if you refreshed, I mean not that you'd haven't tried, but if you've refreshed to switch the whole page. Yeah, I'm hearing that. Now give it a shot. Anybody who's on hold, feel free obviously to email a question to us seven seven h h after hitting refresh, can you hear us? All right? Well, I think we're officially in a in a technical problem zone. Let's go eight six two final chants to see if phone
line's work eight six two. Are you there all right? Yeah, things are not working on the phone banks, So apologize for that. Nail. Kylan's day is completely ruined. Well, Kylan can email us a question right now? So uh yeah, yeah, Stephen said it. I called and the show today and it said I was unmuted, but you couldn't hear me. Same with a call before you got to me. We could hear you, but you couldn't hear us. So blog talk got some issues again,
so we apologize for that. Let's go to an email. This comes from Danny from San Jose, California. I've noticed whenever someone grows popularity to be even close to John Cena, wwe will try to do a storyline that has their momentum and drastically. Why do you think they do that? Do they not want anyone to Surpassina? Ever? What's the deal in the case of Brian Danielson. I eat Daniel Brian he was the man in the Indies. People paid to see him Russell, he was the main event. He could
have easily Surpassena with the right booking. He already has wrestling ability. He's better at promos that aren't scripted. They make him look stupid when his speeches are scripted. He's been the closest to Surpassena and they pretty much made him look bad last night. Why does WWB sabotage their talent? Travis, you
don't agree with everything he said, but maybe you do. But on a big nure we was just a line where he said, did he say Daniel Brien could have easily surpassed I don't like John Cena, but like, come on, he has an intangible and not that Brian doesn't have it, but there's a reason why I Seen has been on top for seven eight years, right, you know, the idea that someone could just easily surpassed John Seen is like just this like of course, like let's like easy there, Like
we all love Brian and he's great, you know, and you would think with some competent, you know, real writing and you know, people that can write for the guy. But we don't have that. So it's like hold it with the easily surpassed stuff. Yeah, but for him, but I get the tone of his uh of his email? Yeah, So so is there is there a pattern there? Did we see it with Rye back? Have we seen it with punk? Have we seen it with Daniel Bryant?
Have you seen with anybody else where? There does seem to be almost a calculated, deliberate attempt if someone gets too hot, to make sure they know seen as the guy. Sure, I think so just in general, like innately, that's just that's our guy. We're gonna we're gonna push him as our guy. We have no no plans on I mean, they can back to like just wrestling being that special kind of entity that does things in
a different way. It's the only what other industry like stomps out their young talents flame where they can, you know, because he might threaten the old guard. I mean that's a theme in life. But you at least let him like make money for you. Yeah, you know, they don't even let these guys get to the point where they could be draws, and it's
like all right if they're legitimately. I don't know, maybe I'm just two eyes wide open ideological thinking when it comes to like how to you can run a wrestling company sitting here on my couch, never you know, have run anything, let alone a multinational conglomerate. But it's just like simple storytelling and creativity. You don't need I don't know. I think I've veered all off. That's all right, it happens. Let's uh, let's go the next
question. John from Greensboro, I wonder what you thought of Gold's being in the ring last night in a suit and face painted. I did not have the same problem you did with running last week in gold Us being in makeup, although I understood your point. That's so nice to someone disagree but understand your point, because that's that's nice. That happens to me a lot. I disagree with people, but I get their points. In my opinion,
he is goldest and not Dustin Rhodes. They referred to him as Dustin less often than they were for Dusty Rhodes Versua Runolds. Dustin Rhodes would have looked awkward and face paint well, stand well in the stands waiting to attack the shield, But since gold dust is not usually seen without its face paint, it made sense to me. Thanks for the great show every Tuesday. Jarvis Bruce is kind of, you know, just kind of brushed off the notion.
No, he was fine in face paint, and that's fine. I mean, it's not like I'm not gonna you know, rant about it for two straight weeks or anything. But to me, I think when it became an issue of jobs in wrestling, and when the dad was humiliated, and when they're acknowledging that gold dust is dustin Runolds Dustin Rhodes the son of Cody,
and they're talking about Cody's real life marriage. Just to me, when you get into that realm and you want to do you want to sneak into the building, and even though you're not you're fired, and you're not officially supposed to be there, covertly run in and attack somebody. It's not like it's not like, you know, ree mysterio. I'm expecting it to come in without his mask. I just think gold dust is dust. He's wrestled as dust and they talk about his dust and they say he's Cody's brother.
I just thought it was a little kind of corny and cheesy, and it did take me out of the moment a little bit. To me, it would have said a lot more if dustin, if gold dust was dustin, and he's like, this is this is about families, this isn't about the gimmick. I had initially the same kind of issue, like all right that I'm I'm supposed to believe this. You know, six four, two hundred and fifty pound guy was like, you know, at this wrestling event,
didn't get mobbed. But you know, even though he's in the hoodie, I mean, how weird and suspicious is this guy? But because because we had an email or a caller last night with Bruce, he said, I think I thought that thing happened way too quick. It was just over and and it kind of made me realize why gold dust Dustin had to have the makeup on, because in order to make that segment work, it had to happen quick. You don't want bumbling security that they're doing with their job.
They shouldn't be able to pound on and pound on and pound on wrestlers, guys that are supposed to be protected from fans. That that's dangerous in a lot of ways. So of course security should be. You need those guys, you need them to be the most recognizable, and Cody isn't exactly you
know mister. You know, I know he's got a great smile and he's handsome in everything, but in a two second, you know, two to eight second kind of quick thing, you want fans and instantly dust and sold that obviously it's Cody or Dust. The gold does so that's obviously Cody.
Lets all cheer and react. You don't want people thinking about it and the murmur because it because that murmur in the time it takes for them to murmur and wonder, the angles over and the securities dragged them off and you're like, wait, were they fans? Was that in it? You know? I't sure you'd get a replay and you'd figure it out, but you don't want that. You wanted foone boom in the moment people reacting. So I was like, you know what, he probably really had to have that pain
on in order for that to work. And so I kind I forgave it, like I forgate it, and you know, but I didn't really feel like so hard about it anymore. Yeah. Yeah. One way that you can help us sustain our schedule of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go to Apple podcast and look for our Weight Killer Procesing podcast and Weight Killer Processing Post show and
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much. And yeah, I mean it's not a huge deal, but I'm just personally to me, sure took me out of the moment a little. And and like, I have less of an issue with him coming out in the suit, wearing the makeup last night because he you know, he wasn't trying to be covert. He had time to prepare it is. It's just
kind of his stick. It's what he does. And yeah, the idea that he spent a half hour hour long it takes some probably longer in the mirror putting it on to do a secret sneak attack was a little bit absurd. But don't if you don't think about it, right, did it wasn't, So just don't think about it. Yes, all right, let's wrap up the free part of the show here. We'll go into the VIP after show and talk about more things from raw last night and more email questions.
If we did not get to your call, please email us your topics, especially if you're a VIP member obviously, and we'll promise to get to it during the aftershow. I promise if it's a good question and we want to answer it. So that's put like bad call or no call or drop call or whatever, something like yeah, absolutely, well yeah, anything that comes in the next few minutes, I'll know it's from you, guys, So so send it in PW Torch livecast at gmail dot com. We'll tackle it
in the aftershow. If you're not a VIP member, you want to ask us to both versions fast PW Torch, the Staff one and the All Stars. Wherever you're looking at the Torch, either on the app or on the website, go vip if you want to get sixty seventy first run VP exclusive
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ten years ago and four per months from twenty years ago. That I've never been posted in PDF format before, and you get introduced to I think, over a thousand back issues, either in text or PDF format or both as soon as you sign up as a VIP member. So whatever big stories in wrestling history, whenever you became a fan and you've got questions what was going on, what did we at the Torch think of that subject? Most of
you were became fans during the time. The Torch has been in business covering wrestling full time since the late eighties, so you get to go back and kind of look at what we did. And in the case of audio, we've got audio from the early nineties. We've got audio from the early two thousands all the way through today also, so if you love audio, you can go deep into the archives and relive pay per view roundtables and Keller outlines
and old radio shows that we did in the nineties. We're running Johnarezi progressing spotlight radio shows from New York from the early nineties also on a regular basis for VIP members, So lots of great stuff when you go VIP add free access to our website VIP Forum Access. I could go on and on lots of reasons to go VIP. You get a lot of bang for your buck. Place to go to sign up and get more info is Pwtorch dot com, slash go VIP Pwtorch dot com, slash go VIP and dot It'll give
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an MMA fan, download our MMA Torch app We've got. I'm really proud of the job we do at MMA Torch. Jamie Pennock leading the way with this full time coverage of the sport of MMA, including all kinds of great fights coming up the rest of the year. In USC great features every day, including every single day, and assessment of an entire division of USC with the list of the top contenders, their previous fights, their future fights. Are they on the way up on the way down? What are Calumnis on
MMA Torch having to say about them? Really cool feature we just started a couple of weeks ago, and it's a really good way to just stay on top of the big picture of MMA. Best live event coverage in the business. I argue, as the event goes on live, it refreshed get not only just what happened, but also an evaluation of the fight. What are the ramifications of it? How good was a fight? All kinds of reasons
to download the MA Torch app or go to mmatorch dot com. If you're a USC fan and follow us on Twitter, you can follow me at v Wade Keller t A g W A D E K E L L E R. And you can follow the brand Pwtorch at PW Torch and you can follow this show at PW torch Livecast. We're also on Facebook. Just go to Facebook dot com Slash Pro Wrestling Torch and our homepage for this show is Pwtorch
livecast dot com. If you're looking for an older show, just from a few days ago or months ago, pwtorch livecast dot com is the place to go, and that also has links to our RSS feed. If you want to subscribe to the livecast on your smartphone or and iTunes, all the links are there at pwtorch livecast dot com. Travis, give some plugs to what you're doing, and uh, thank you for coasting today for Jason. I enjoyed it absolutely. Thanks for the invite. You can follow the East Coastcast
Twitter at east Coastcast. You can follow mine at Travlord. East Coastcast dot com is the way to listen to all of archives shows on blog talk radio. Oh uh, like us on Facebook, Facebook, dot com, slash, pw twrchs East Coastcast. We're just searched East Coastcast or PW torch or under the umbrella, so we'll show up and I think that's about it, so yeah, listen to us tomorrow right after Pat McNeil. Do you know who he has on pads on? Wait? I remember he texts or he
I AM's me. It's like loady and somebody. Yep, he's got a All Star Panel on tomorrow. I think he's changing the name since we took his name, but I'm looking up sext on. Yeah, Adam Colan, Michael Elgan from Ring of Honor are his guest stol Nope, not All Star panel, but so check that out. Pat McNeil every Wednesday's interviews this Friday. I've got Matt Morgan last Friday. You gotta listen to it if you
haven't yet. Alex Greenfield ex Creative Team member two thousand five through seven, I think or fourth through six, really good guests, Lots of good feedback on Twitter and an email from that interview. VFP member's got some really good stuff in the BP after show from Alex also, so the FP members definitely checked out that out if you haven't yet. And h Yeah, good show,
Thanks Travis, Thanks to all the callers. My apologies again for the technical issues of not getting to the other callers, but we'll end the show there. Kids on Vigils of Play us out and on the other side of
the music VP members, stay tuned. We've got more to talk about, a lot more going on on Role last night, and we'll look ahead to that a Bruno all right, right, now to the the a the after show portion of the show, Travis, just on a lighter note, we talked a little bit about loss Mattador's a little bit passively, but what did you think of their introduction and also l L Tis. I think if they tighten up that intro, it could be really you know, like one of
those fun things is the crowd gets into but the priests. The build up to the dude running through the capes are our old lad capes. It was a little a little much, but that's the first one and that's probably that's fine, But just tighten up that intro, it could be a fun little thing. I don't think they have anything necessarily like Brod his clay. He's a you know, big fat guy would have you know, mohawk and you know, dances around and you know, he's kind of special. These guys,
I don't know if they they're not. It's not like it's Paul London and Brian Kendrick h three under those masks and they're gonna like do fly around and really energize. It's premo and ethical. They had premo and ethical matches, or they're gonna have premo and ethical matches yeah, yeah, well I am high on this, not as a main event act, but I think El to Rito is a good thing for what w w E is and and
the house show experience, and it's it's what WW is. Some people long for the nineteen seventies and eighties territory house and and I understand stand that, and especially if you've experienced it. I talked about that yesterday. And the
Keller Hotline is kind of as a sidebar. I mean, they're just I feel, you know, feel a little bad for people who never get to actually be present in an old smoke filled building with the old old ladies on the front shake, you know, shaking their their canes at the wrestlers and everyone believing it's real, and the you know, and the gritty atmosphere. It's it's it's great, but wrestling is different and there's definitely things about it
now that are way better. I mean, there were some awful, awful undercards that I saw with a wa just longside headlocks and born. I mean, it's just so what it is today and what w w E stay. It's not for everyone, but for what WWE wants to do. I think
El Torito has a chance to be a big hit. I think he's something he's you know, like it's it's it's almost blasphemous to say it, but he could be in a way the new Ray Mysterio in the sense of something that that younger kids see and they're attracted to right away and go, oh, this is funny, this is fun this is interesting. But as kind of a side character to a mid card tag team, it doesn't get in the way of anything else. And so I think they're onto something with this.
And I thought they did a good job. I mean, it's very much in the tradition of the Minis in Mexico and and uh, and there's a there is a culture to draw from that can go well beyond just people who have you know, slowly with luch Lieber, wha, wait, is Hornswoggle looking over his shoulder now, yes, you know, so I think he is. Somebody asked recently if they're going to bring in somebody, you know, to work with Hornswoggle or you know, play off of him or
whatever. And I don't know if El Torito and Hornswoggle will cross past, maybe we'll have a Hornswoggle He'll turn at rest before Restimania thirty and we'll have a El Torito versus Hornswoggle match the Evil Left team. Why why did you play that? Well? Because you know I can. You can take a bathroom break, go to the kitchen when that happens. But you know you don't have to watch it. But I said it first. Actually I'm sure
I didn't. I bet somebody else out there if you did a search Hornswoggle, El Torido resty a thirty, I bet there's a message board post of somebody thinking that was a genius idea. Yeah, yeah, all right, let me jump to another email question here, Sony email dot question for the live cast, and he has it's like four paragraphs and he says, please read this out loud. It took an hour to write on the iPad. Yes, I'm gonna just just gonna grab one aspect of this because the other
one's teena related. So I'll say that for the Keller hot Line. VFP member Martin from Norwich in the UK says, I have an opinion I want to get your view on despite being a proven drawn capable of four star matches, do you think recent ross have actually benefited from being John Cena free And my opinion as bad as Triple Agent Stepson can be, and as all over
the place as booking wise as this Brian versus Management storyline is. Imagine how much worse it would be seen a switching between smiling John's stand up comedy road show mode and no selling the gravity of situations left right and center and shouty Seena make serious where he bangs on and bangs on and on to an unseen entity called Jack about how he's the first in the building the afternoons in the last to leave in the evening, whether it's relevant to the draw at hand
or not? Do you agree? Try it's a good one to you. Uh. And I was gonna get on him about bangs along the UK guy, this unknown entity called Jack. Oh, what a good line. I think they wouldn't have been able to do the storyline we've seen around. I agree, different changes everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, totally. He's set up to be the guy to come back and a lot of them. I'm not taking it no more. Jack, John seen
it's back, you know whatever. Yeah, And then I guess we're supposed to be like, you know, yeah, he's seen it, and the almost almost will be just a genuine like, oh well, okay, like at least someone can legitimately and they're going to like treat them, you know, with some halfway decent uh, you know, more than halfway decent respect level. And you know he's gonna he's gonna get That's he's the comeback.
That's really what it is. John's even it will be the comeback. Do you think ratings would be higher with John seen or is it totally dependent upon what they did with him or John A given ratings would be back. I think yeah, I think there would be a nud jump, there would be a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, I think he deserves that much. Yeah. Yeah. Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Pass cast every Friday on the PW
Torch Daily Cast feed. Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news from the WWF and WCW, and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. I mean, this is okay, here's a better question, or I'll say it's a better
question because I said the first question. I think this is a better question. Is Daniel bron If Daniel Bryan had been pushed coming out of the Summer Slam win, without Triple H involved, without you know, the ridiculous power
Trip storyline, without the Big show crap and all that. If Daniel Bran just got to be the new hot star and they used him as if their business dependent on maximizing him, and they had no this a lot of this, but they had no crutches, They had no objections to his size and how embarrassing it would be to bring him to a corporate meeting and say this
is our top star and all that stuff. If they just went with Daniel Bryan like an old time promoter would when a wrestler gets hot, would that be better than John Cena being used Ideally at this point, yeah, because it'd be He'd be fresher and the fans stood. They fans chose him. They didn't know Seene it was going to necessarily you know, be yep, you know, so the fans still chose him. So so so. Yeah, but one thing about you know he brought up you know, not objecting
to a size and everything they do. Know, yes, they can say they can have you know, they're on their continue to turn their nose up at five eight two hundred pounds, but he's still like in the main event, like they can like kind of do it with their nose turn but he's still there. People still see them see him. It's not like somehow saying
that the people's eyes and things are are are clouded or glazed over. I don't know if I'm making the point, but they they're still You're still featuring this guy, like you say all this bad stuff about the wall, take them off the TV. I know you feel this way, and you've really you know, maybe not trust so hard and evil about it, but yeah, sure this is a genuine, genuine feelings you and the management have, uh, take the guy off TV like you're you're the idiots for featuring the
guy. It's like the guy who complains and still pays the money to do something. I think, all right, well here the dumb asses that are losing money by featuring them. If you if you think he's so bad and people don't take them seriously. Yeah, yeah, but I guess that would be their answer. Well, we're trying, don't you see? He was
trying to underhand them, and so I guess it actually works everyone. Yeah, all right, Well let's do another email here, VIP member Brandon for Michigan with the rumor of Vince versus h If you going to WrestleMania thirty, who do you think will be or should be Vincu surget the face Hunter at Mania? And how should the story end considering Hunter as has to at some point take over for good for real. Man. That's that's where John Singer
comes in. So what's your WrestleMania prediction. I've I'm going back and forth. I've said both matches are going to happen, which they can't. That could be where you finally get your I don't think it's going to happen. I think the likelihood is going to be seen at versus Triviola as Vince's reluctant, you know, well I gotta fight, you know, I gotta accept this. I guess him and Vince haven't really had any on air issues until all of a sudden he turned on him and hated him. A couple of
months ago. But who cares. We forgot about that. Vince will be pick Sena and that'll be it'll be Triple H Sena or again if you know, if if they have some sense and go, wait, Vince just said, I don't. I'm sick of you. You act like you run in the place. I'm sick of you, be in the face. We want someone else. If they stick with that, which would make sense, then
you could still get your Brian Triple H match at WrestleMania. But I still lean towards Triple hsina because it's Triple A Sena, not Brian Triple Ate. But at some point we get Daniel Bryan against Triple H two. I think you would have to. Yeah, but didn't where what show Royal rumble.
That's gonna be interesting all so yeah, I didn't. It's gonna how that how that match happens, and the subtext and how Triple H. You know, does Triple H go out there and pull a Shawn Michael's Whole Hogan where Triple Hi says, all right, all you people who say that I'm you know, egotistical, you know, because there's not evidence of that, you know, like that's up for debate, and you know that I don't know
what's really best interest in mind for Daniel Brown. And he goes out there and he pulls the Michaels and just sells you know, not not obviously in a cartoonis Shawn Michael's way because he's not physically capable of it. But you know, just goes overboard and taking a beating from Daniel Brien to just you know, spite the fans. But he can't do that. If if that comes before the John Cena matchup Mania thirty, if that's direction they go, so, you know, then Triple Hi gets go, well, I would,
you know, put Danny Bran over. But I'm in the main of m Mania thirty, so I got it. Stay strong, Yeah, I gotta stay strong. Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting, all right, Yeah, But the Vincina dynamic, I mean, I don't I don't know if that helps or hurts seen or makes a difference at all if he shows up. I mean, obviously this is a big enough storyline. I mean, it's not just a rumor. It's just the obvious logical direction this is going. You know, they're not gonna But again, how do you
get around and do they do just classic WWE? So what or say, head, Vince go, I was going through some some things. But how do you get around the fact that this whole thing started Because Vince didn't all of a sudden hates seeing you, hate all the money, seeing it made him gonna lay at a tacade. I don't know. Yeah, all right. He had a a second second part of his question, but that email is down, so I need to walk over here and get it where it's
up, all right. His second question is what is the direction of the wyatts? They seem installed already. I guess we covered that earlier. Sure, I mean, what what what would you have done differently with the Wyatts to this point? Or are you okay with the way they're pacing there? There? Integrating? So I'm okay with it because I don't see much pass. I mean, the two big guys aren't going to go after the tag titles until the shield drivel, so they're even thinking about that. That's so
they're kind of in a holding pattern. That's why I said they just beat up three MB and you know, justin Gabriel every week, I guess and and Bray isn't going to go after either of these singles titles because again there held by heels the two ic in us. So I think by default they're just in a holding pattern. Put a good holding pattern where you get featured on TV and you still get to do your cool intro. That's over. You don't want vinsc. Manning gets super excited about somebody and he gets it
when when vinc managroduces people, he gets him over. And then if he's not ready to push him to the top, people get really reckless. And I understand that, but that led to Dulphigger being turned prematurely. You know, dulalp Sigger should have been a mid card heel waiting turn baby face when they were ready to really launch him in the main events. And with the Wyatt's, I mean, I'm they're just hardcore fense. I don't understand the
word. The people who watch every week and are just you know, all into it. They're at one end of the spectrum. But Vince books to the median, the median fan, the one who needs that reinforcement, who needs to see them for a long time before they buy them as stars. That's his approach. Now, if there's time. There's absolutely times to make exceptions, especially when there's just something obvious to make money on waiting for you. But from what I have seen, I don't see him souring on the
YS. I see him waiting for the right time to rev them up. But right now he's got his top two or three storylines with Punk Cayman. And I'd rather be stalled in the Wyatt family than stalled and be Curtis Axel then installed in what be Curtis Axel. Oh curt oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Curtis Axel is probably better being the guy reacting to the Hayman being weird with Raybeck and Raybeck being the new Elpha in that relationship. I
mean, there's actually somebody for Curtis Axel to playoff. And now I think I'm not saying he's been great, but I think he's been better, more interesting than reacting to Hayman and right back than he has been just as himself. By the way, did you think Stephanie and Hunter were better last night than they have been? Better? In what says? Well, better in the sense that, like Stephanie wasn't either crying or yelling at the top of
her lungs. I actually thought as a power couple being jerks, they actually were played off each other. They played off each other well. I if this is what they had been like from the beginning. I'm not saying I'd like the booking, but I went to ben as hard because Triple H wasn't trying to be the snarky stand up comedian. Stephanie wasn't trying to show her her acting chops and just kind of embarrassing herself and making you want to turn
the channel. I thought they pulled back to the right tone and played off each other as equals, and they didn't overdo it, and they didn't tear tear people that I don't know. I just I thought last night was there's no rant there. It was like, Okay, Stephanie was actually good in a role. Triple ch was good in a role, and we quick try when when I mentioned this, when especially like when Triple chose, we've given you what three four chances is at four steps should leave oh at least like
I laughed. I thought her delivery was great. The dynamic between them was good. If if it's just if they find their stride and can do can do this? I I mean again, it doesn't mean the storyline makes sense, but on a on a performance character level, I would be okay with that. Yeah. No, once she stopped being the caught in the middle
wife and daughter, it's over my daddy. Yeah she got really good, Like, oh, she can just be if she can just just be a mean, nasty bitch without going with the octaves like when she got all you think you are, like pull back a little bit too stuff like but if she if she's not crying being the Tweeners stuff between the rock and har place and not being the yelling, screeching stephinitely got you know, with her new booze and oh to the Alliance stuff. You know, she just literally she
couldn't cut a promo without screeching. She keeps that calm down. She's good, She's been fine, Like really, like I hate her in a way that I'm supposed to hate. Well, I can't stand her, but I don't, you know, it's a good hatred. Yeah, it doesn't make you like dread watching Raw. Like people don't dread watching Raw because of Paul Hayman. They want to watch Paul Hayman get what he's got coming. And you know, as Stephanie. You want her in a position you do.
Biggie Langston's return last night. You know, people have been wondering how they're gonna use him, Will he be Paul Hayman's a new guy to take on Punk. All these speculation and he comes back to do a quick TV job. I mean you can almost tell body language wise when he came out, he was kind of stumbling over his words a little bit. They're just there's kind of that that powdy body language that doesn't do you any favors that guys have when they're about to do the job. I call it the van Hammer
look and the nature. I never called it before this, but I'm calling it the Van Hammer look on Nitro And when he was brought back and he would just walk out and he you know, just he had that look on his face of Oh, I'm just here to do a job, and I'm I should be getting a big push. Why am I not the next Ulton Orio. It's a bit of a boo boo face he's I mean, he's what twenty in it's mid twenties. Yeah, you look like you do. Come on, pal, You're going to get your chances and you're actually pretty
good and you're going to be a decent baby face one day. So you know, yeah, I know you think you should be you know, not job in the seeing punk. But this works with the story and it's like one of those things like, oh this actually booking kind of makes sense with the whole body st sized thing and the announcers. That wasn't wasted on the announcers, and so what you go out there and you lose to the number one or two baby facing you know on the roster, shut up? Yeah,
yep. I just think when you're off TV for a while, you kind of hope there's some build up anticipations when you do return it it means something. And I could see him being dis point in that. But he you know, yeah, he's got along because look how he was bought up. I mean, let's start, you know, like they set the tone with It's not like that you got bought up with this splash, You just kind of got brought ups. Is heavy in the background for two people,
and you ran interference and you know again you were heavy. Now you're losing to the number two one or two baby race. All right, so let's let's wrap up with and I'll check email one more time here too, But
let's rop up with battleground on Sunday, Rob Vandam and albertoo Rio. I sat on the Color hot Line that I think the top ten moves of Rob van Dam and making it a hardcore match, even though whenever they make it a hardcore match, it's a way of saying, it's a short cut because the guy doesn't want you know, guys can't work, don't want to work the match. They're just going to do a stand up rawl and a couple
of big spots to make up for it. But I think WWB holds back from doing it just indiscriminately on TV now where when they do announce it there's some equity, and I think with Rob van Dam there's more than usual. And I thought the top ten move video, even though people are raising their expectations probably higher than what ww WE can deliver on, I think that's going
to sell some pay per views. I think some people are gonna go WHOA, you know, especially fans who either haven't seen that a long time or never saw it or only saw it on YouTube, Like I get to see this in a contemporary WWE, and I could see Rob Bandam do these moves to del Rio? Yeah, I think that adds a layer that to what to what Battle Run would have been otherwise. So I don't know if I thought that they actually added added a little to the pay per view with what
they think a little bit. I think they had they had to do something, you know, what that match get somebody guided about it. So if there's a you know, handful or whether that handfuls you know, thousand or ten thousand people that don't go, oh yeah, I mean, you know by this show now or something, you know, I'm more or at least I'm really really going to consider it because at least this is another you know,
spice in the soup. But I just I think as far as the match goes, it'll be a bunch of crunches and you know, you'll get that you know, take tempered you know, twenty thirteen hardcore style, which to fine, I'm not complaining. U you know, maybe a van Terminator, but something's gonna happen and Van Dam's gonna end up getting getting injured because he's you know, he'll be going for three months. He's not gonna flip dive into the crowd. No, and you said something about if you've reached
into the crowd, it's like a fine or something. Yeah. Yeah, it's like yeah, they actually I think it was actually done that weekly. They were talking about it. Oh last week, Chris and Jason state commissions. No, no, no, w w E. Like they have like apparently a rule that you get fine seventy or seventy five thousand bucks. They tell wrestlers if you reach over the ring barry there's too many lawsuits, put
too much potential for lawsuit if you do that. So unless it's a prescribed gimmick, like you know the sunglasses, Yeah, to say, what about the shield? And I think that's the unpump is in the over to barcade. Yeah right, but you as a wrestlad doing your own, you can't do it on your own exactly. It's it's very and I obviously you know, see him punk, I don't think just when of the crowd on his own, But that was very unfortunate, you know when he hit the wrong
guy. That's a humbling moment and hit a guy period. Absolutely, But it's as bad as that is, it's exponentially worse when you hit the wrong guy. Yeah, No, totally and hopefully kind of humbling, you know, to to Punk a little bit. I mean, Punk is still worshiped that I'm you know, sometimes find myself trying to balance it out a little bit. But you know that that was a temperamental moment and indicative of maybe needs time off. It's the defenders that came out for that, I know.
I know. You don't have to wait for the weight Keller Pro Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of Monday Night Raw SmackDown. Each week you can check out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report we'll tell you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, and it will also analyze key segments and give my random thoughts end quips on what I'm watching as it airs. So
check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to WWE pay per views. I cover those live at pwtorch dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings. And of course you can find other TV reports from other contributors to pwtorchs such as n x t Rowah, Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out pwtorch dot com, your first stop for TV and pay per view written reports. So anyway, yeah,
but is there any downside? Now? It's only is there any downside to Rob and dam showing all those spots when you can't even come close to delivering some of those on Sunday? Yeah, so either yeah, whatever you do with the downside after you got their money. Also, so yeah, although you know, I mean the net's come bag pro motor kind of way. It's like, well whatever, I'm what we're gonna worry that he can't get
you know that he's mister would you call him mister three stars? You know, and it's not you know, there'll be a lot of slinging of Cando sticks and maybe get some smushy trash cans in there. Yeah. Yeah. Oh so prediction for right back end Punk, How does that match go? I wouldn't be surprised if through lots of Shenanigans, right back wins. Yeah, yeah, to set up a hell and a cell, to just set
up just Perry and I mean he goes in and lose that match. Yeah, Yeah, I don't think you can have robeck loose to punk and have people take right back seriously as a threat. And then you need Hayman to gloat, you know, have something to gloat about, and punks, well, he'd be rounding off his his year as a paper as on a pay per view. Wasn't his first pay per view last October? And until like
May he was a over pay per view. Yeah that's right, yep, yeah, you know, so I you know, if he go, you know, he'll be if he wins, I think he'll only be three in uh three in uh nine or something like that. So if he loses, he'll be two and ten. That's just swoof. Not that they keep right, you know that they even would even dare put that over or even out there. But I have a memory. I remember things, so uh and finally the main event, Uh what what sneigans lead to uh Danny Bryan not
being champion or did he come out with the belt? No? I think this is one more one more thing set up the uh and I think it's gonna I I think I said it's gonna be a big, big time schmas to send it to in the show's just going to be one of those locker room uh, pouring. You know, it's just I predict the show going off with just may him and uh, you know, you know everybody's out
there. This will be a test of if people care. Everybody's out there, and you know, the locker room's not taking anymore to shale the locker room. This guy and that guy and I don't know, maybe even have Stephanie and Triple H kind off to the side like, oh Jesus is not good. How we're gonna and then well, here coming, you know, and I go, okay, well here, it'll be a perfect opportunity. I see if people would would you know, well, if people care for
a big show, I don't think they do. I think they'll go, is he gonna come out and go please guys stop fighting? The locker room coming together everybody, you know. But I think it just ends in the Schmas and the big, big old brew. H. Here here's my bold prediction, and it sets up logically, sets up the cell. That's what
I said yesterday. This is my bold prediction. And if you ask me in two days, my prediction will be different because I don't I'm not saying put money on this because there's one hundred hundred options that are all, you know, relatively equally viable with all the moving parts. I think Daniel Brian wins a world title and keeps it in part because I think it's best for business based on what I'm going to predict after that, and too because it'll
be Triple Agio's way of quieting critics a little bit. I mean, I think he's gonna I actually think he's would care enough to do that, and so I see all these people are all worried, and we gave him, actually let him hold the title for more than a day or more than five minutes. So Brian wins, and I think he wins clean. I think part of that relatively clean for pretty much clean. And I think part of that is, you know, based on what we saw on Monday, I
think they're I can owing. Maybe I'm getting more credit than I should, but I think they wanted or to look really strong because they're gonna have a
lose on on Sunday. And then Helen a Cell or Daniel Brian with big show was referee like a special winforce of referee and Helen a Cell that that's that's my prediction, because what are they gonna do with Big Show otherwise, and then the question is will Big Show knock out Daniel Brian to help Orton get the belt, or well, Big Show call it down the middle, or well he even Daniel Bryan. That's that's my prediction. That's that's that's uh. I think you could do both. I think you get ended in
it. Well not, I think you could ended in the schmas. Have Big Show be the last guy to kind of come down and you know what's he gonna do, and then still still in abeyance and then okay, one on one hill in the sale. You want to be you want to get it, you want to you want to make an impact. Big Show, Fine, we want to. Here's your final test, you know or whatever.
An in eery inside enforcer like you said. And I think giving Brian the title and letting him relish in it for a month even I think even Triplet and Stephanie would would think we need to give fans of a sense it's only three weeks turnaround. Kind yeah, that's the thing we want. We want. It's it's like I can think of a crude, cru cruder analogy, but it's like it's like we want to give somebody access to their dream cause here to cruder analogy. Yeah, well no, no, because it's
it's not even as good as this one. But it's I'm trying to get a good analogy, not just the cruder only come on, but the someone get instead of giving some letting someone test drive their dream card that they can't afford, it's more cruel to give it to them for three weeks and then take it away, you know, And that's kind of you can So that's what I'm You can come up with any other analogies that might work, but gives fans a taste of Daniel Brian a champion for three weeks and let them
enjoy it and get even given get used to it. It's like, and I'm gonna enjoy what when it comes out there. I know I might be lute, ugly faced, beardy, whatever troupe, but I'm a champion. Mighty wants to hear that crap. I certainly don't. I want to hear.
I told you I'm the best. No one can beat me. If you think you can beat me, come get your ligaments torn out of the socket and all that's you know, that got Hi perfectly, But I so if Brian gets three weeks a champion and the fans get you get actually used to Dan and Brian being their champion. However they push them aside. There's good and bad ways to do it. Then Triple HS basically saying, hey, fans, yeah, Danna Brand left your champion, but don't get used
to it. Randy Orton has a has an automatic rematch and he's getting it and we're gonna put it in LSL and we're gonna make sure that that Shenanigans Scott Armstrong doesn't happen again. And we can't trust in a hell and to sell a regular meatily referee to handle this kind of pressure. Big Show is
a special referee, so I'll make him the full on ref. He's got to make the three count not even I think you make him the full on ref because really, I mean, in hell in a cell, there's not much to do but count three because there's no rules, So I think you
can do that, and well they'll do. They'll probably do what they did with fully when he special ref tripulation Kevin Nash because the idea was of regular ref can't officiate, so they had him take these bumps and yeah, get like elboated by accident by I wanted to, you know, like our normal ref would be damn for fifteen minutes, but fully say I'm okay, yeah, I got it, you know. Yeah, So maybe big show will be in a hot or two where he takes a inadvertent kick or something,
but he's tough and he can shake it off. I was like, I always hate when I don't see the email question where someone gives a nice plug to VIP and I don't read it on the Free show. But we'll end with this email from Jason from Long Island and he actually sent the sin six hours ago. He says, unlike the people speaking openly and honestly about Hunter on as DVD, I will gladly say that as a five year plus Torch VFP member, wait Over delivers on content each month. If you're on the
fence, get often and subscribe. Now you'll be glad you did so call her. Did say that for Friday, David for next Tuesday. I guess yeah. But his question is is there any way that trip Lah would have ever allowed himself to be booked as poorly as the way Daniel Bryan and Delphigler have been booked in recent months. Is there any way that this booking can
be looked at as it was nineteen ninety five or ninety six. He wouldn't have a choice, but you know, triple late of the last ten years or twelve years, Well, let me let me go, he puts, Okay, Oh yeah, good. Maybe is there anyway because he's, you know, the FFP member, he's got to be here. Is there any way that this booking can be looked at as anything other than an outright burial of both of these men? Possibly since the fans, not the w WB
machine selected both of them. In the past, fans selected Daniel Peuter and Loki as winners are tough enough, both men were promptly buried as the company's parent disdain for fans ever catch up with them. Well, I will first say that Daniel Peuter and low Key are not Daniel Bryan and dal Siegler.
There's there are some very very legitimate reasons that they didn't want to get deal with low Key being over and having to deal with his weird way of thinking, you know, how business has done, and Daniel Peuter just wasn't ready And there's a lot of political reasons but they could have made money with both of them. But I trust, but Dalpziggler and Daniel Brown are much much, much more qualified in every way on and off camera, over with fans,
competence in the ring behind them, like everything. But I get his point too, But these it actually makes the Daniel Bryan and Dalp Siggler situation more egregious because Travis, these guys, we're picked by the fans, and they really are ready and responsible enough and good enough employees where they could have made money in the long run with him. No, it's it's uh, yeah, if I had mine, if I had to pick two guys, it wouldn't be or I'd pick Brian and Zigler and a Pewter and the other
one and low key. But no, I get his point, and I don't think it's a see it was Brian. It's not a burial because in a way we should be grateful. No, No, I'm serious. I don't even mean in the start, but we really should be grateful that he's in a position that he's in. Yeah, I know the fact that it's like all right, but he's there. Danny only got to treat him like
crap at every turn. It's that feeling. But but it's like it's like you're you're with you end up getting to date the hottest girl in the world that you never dreamed of, and you're just like, holy crap, and you actually got the sex with her, but she's like just impossible to live with you in front of your friends. Yeah, you know, it's like, but you know what, I don't deserve a girl this good looking.
I'm married up, so even though I'm miserable and she buries me in front of my friends and she doesn't tell me where she goes on weekends on Friday and Saturday nights. But hey, you know, I gotta settle for being treated like crap because she's better looking at me. That's I'm not sure we
should be that kind of thankful. But I know what you're saying, because five years ago, you know, I mean that's a you know, Daniel Bryan sixty minute match with Anijel McGinnis said an R eight show back in two thousand and seven, and I would not have predicted that Daniel Bryan would be headlining in the fall of twenty and thirteen. No chance. Yeah, so yeah, uh well, very good. Well, and on that note, I don't want to completely You've got a lot more you can talk about.
On the East Coast cast. We didn't cover every everything, but tune in VFP members for the East Coast cast on Wednesday and or listen. If you can't listen to Lie listen on delay and tune in Friday for Matt Morgan and James and Greg will be by on Thursday and Pat we already talked about his guests tomorrow. So I think we covered our bases and traving thinks it's and if anybody uh wants to get get a crew or join my crew, my PSN thing is Travington. So I'm I'm I'll finished the game. I'm all
about GT five online. So as soon as rock Star gets their servers right and gets their stuff, hit me up and we'll like go rob some banks. And so see that's what you're doing instead of watching Breaking Bad, You're plan Yeah, I'm actually yeah, I'm doing real I'm blowing up meth labs and trailer parks and stuff. Yeah. Well, very very cool, Travis, been a pleasure. Just you've been the Daniel Bryant to Jason's John Cena. You've proven how expendable. He is, Oh wait, what if ratings
are down though? Oh crap? All right, well, Jayson be back next week and you'll be back in eas Coastcasting the next Monday with Bruce. So for the second, third, or fourth time? How many times have been tough for at least four? Okay? Thank you, Travis, awesome. Thanks, We appreciate you. Bet invite you to email the show with feedback or questions or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Also welcome your
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the comments section. Thank you so much. In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch
Vip members. A Torch Vip membership doesn't just give you ad free access to these shows and a ton of other VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch Weekly newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows
from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast library dating back to the year two thousand and three. There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that
comes with a pwtorch VIP membership. Now we'repproaching twenty years of podcasting. Go viip and dive into our post pay perview roundtables are coverage of some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews, and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. Pwtorch dot com slash go viip. We have a streamline sign up form and you can pay with PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card. In one or two minutes from right now,
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