S1E1: Danny Ainge

of hosts and I'm definitely not talking about me. We've got Kendrick Perkins, former Celtics champion and current rising star in the media industry as we've talked about before. We've got former Celtics sideline reporter and current Celtics studio hosts for NBC Sports Boston Abbey Chin, and last, but certainly not least, long time voice of the Boston Celtics Shawn Grandy.

We've got everyone here on this first step, so to be able to kind of talk about what we're gonna be doing on this podcast moving forward and what this is all about. But I just want to start out with perk twelve years ago, I was standing in your locker with a microphone in my hand as a twenty three year old dude who just got hired by the Celtics. How the hell did we wind up here with you and me being on a podcast together? Because I think I hand that this is where we're at. Did I

did I even answer you a question? Did you listen? When I needed an answer? I went through your locker because you were always going to tell us straight Oh so that's what happened, you know, Listen. We always used to talk about it. That's what you were always a straight shooter and you still are. No. You you use big perk because KG wasn't doing interviews. Okay, I give it again. I'm glad you're telling me, tell me how

you really feel. I'm telling you the truth. We needed a straight shooter that happy, and that's why we need you for this podcast, because this Celtics podcast is going behind the scenes where no one else can go, and that's why we need you to take us in there. And we weren't started this podcast three years ago. If you just be able to figure out Google Chrome right right, look, looks and I'm not good. I'm telling you. I'm not

good at emails. I'm not good at none of that tick talking and Twitter Okay, I'm pretty good at Twitter, but I'm not good at all of the stuff. Don't tell yourself short great at Twitter? I'm old. So well, let's tell everyone what this thing is all about, folks. We're gonna give you a view of this organization. It's history, it's stories, it's legends from a perspective that you guys haven't seen before. You might have heard the story, but

you've never heard it like this. You might know what happened, but you don't know how it happened. You might think you know the person, but do you really. So those are those are the things that we're gonna bring to you this season. And Grandy, I know you've got some examples of of stories that you've literally been a part of over the years here with Boston. It's about twenty years that you've been calling games for this team that you can tell from a perspective that literally no one

else would understand or has heard before him. I right, Well, everybody has seen different things, right, we all it's it's essentially everybody has their own camera in their mind, and now it's a chance to talk about some of the same things that we've all experienced together, that fans have all experience, that the organization has experienced, but everybody's got

a different share. And my seat on the plane and my seat in the booth and my seat next to Max, things have looked maybe a lot different for me than they have for Abby, and a lot different than they have from Perk, and a lot different mark than they

did for you. No question in Perk, you had that seat in the locker room back in the two thousand seven two thousand eight championship season, and I know there was a mantra that was born at the beginning of that season, And that's one of the stories that we're gonna detail this season. Tell us about this thing that Doc Rivers brought to the table that ignited what you guys were able to accomplish that year, and the story that we're gonna tell later this season. You you're referring

to the word and boot too. You're all right, right and boot too. So when Doc brought it up, we were like, Doc, what are you talking about? He made he made all the rookies go and research the word and boot too, right, Like it was Big Baby. I think it was Big Baby is the only one I remember. But we had and that's bad, no offense to anyone else. Ye, did you guys go search it? He didn't tell you what it meant. You had to go look it up

and figure it out. Yeah, we had to go figure it out, right, So not us the rookies, and they had to know. They seriously, it was like a homework assignment. They had to go and really come back with like, uh, some paperwork and read to us what it was about. You know, um, only could be better if Abby is better and Sean is better, That's the only way I could be better. So basically like you had to want success for your for others, right that we needed each

other to get the job done. And then um he kind of preached it to us basically saying it was it was kind of all in right, all in method. It was like togetherness, no heating a gender. I got you, I got your back. We may fall out at times, but we got each other back. We didn't have hid the genders for us individual goals. We knew everything that we were trying to accomplish was greater than one individual, right, So in boot two. We could talk about that for

three or four hours, that's how long. And well, but so like my my thing is, I'm not good with, like, you know, really breaking down the word and boot to getting into the dictionary because I haven't looked in the dictionary since school. I haven't looked into the cyclopedias in high school. But I'll tell you this, John, tell me this. You've been around for twenty years, right, talking about your plane ride? Two decades? Two decades? How many games is that? It's a lot, but I want you, I want you

to keep it real. The funnest playing rise was when we between two thousand and eight, two thousand level right with the big boom box, we jamming Rick Ross. You maybe was trying to sleep, you couldn't sleep. We had a dice game going shirts off, you know. It was it was popping on that. You remember that, right, Sean. My playlist on my iPod was me, I go up to Paul pearsonbody, what's this one? And he would tell me how to punch it in whatever. And that's how

my players ended up developing during during those years. Here's a true story. Two thousand eleven, there was a guy we didn't make a big impact in the NBA or anything. I think his name is Shock or something like that. And he ended up on this team in two thousand and eleven, early mid season, maybe games in. He walks back on the plane and remember, it's not just you, it's it's not just ticket. It's now you've got Nate

Robinson on this team. This is a why the plane didn't need fuel offer to take off right, it would just go up on its own. Shack wandered back. True story comes back to me where I'm sitting, whatever it looks around. He's like, is it always this crazy on the plane? I'm like, that's Shocks. We've seen some things

and bend some places. And he was overwhelmed by walking into that environment in that two thousand and ten, two thousand eleven part of me wishes that we could transport Brad Stevens onto one of those rides just to see how different. I mean, I can't explain to you guys how completely different the rides are now than what they

were back then. Like that was my first experience getting on a plane with you guys back then, Perk and like two thousand nine ten and I'm walking on and I'm like, okay, so this is what the NBA is like, right, there's money flying all over the plane if there's the boom box right in the middle of the plane, like, I'm not listening to what I want to listen too. I'm listening to what you guys are listening to when it's playing. So it was a crazy experience. The best

part was when we have people on the plane. We have sponsors and they bring their kids on the plane right late at night, come back and we had to tell play a bit about to take off there two or three rows away from from KG and Perk and where have we have to turn to the kids saying you're gonna hear some words now, don't usually through them all here, Mus, we cannot stop the plane conversation before we talk about the infamous arm wrestling story because there's

two right and Perk Big Baby was the arm wrestling champion. KG had seen enough needed to show that he was the Alpha dot. But also, I mean there's some funny business going on with that, wasn't there. Well? First of all, first of all, no one crown Big Baby is the arm wrestling except Big Baby. Right, It's the Big Baby. Okay, because I never got into it because I felt like it was just dumb right up. Their arm wrestling has grown man like it's a hobby. Something could happen. I

wasn't trying to be a part of that. So here's the story. We were so competitive, okay, that we basically bet it on anything. And when I tell you anything, we betted on anything. We had a disagreement about somethings like I didn't better Hunter, I bet you wrong on this, but it was googling something. So I don't even know how we got to arm wrestling, because you know, we had two tables. One was big the Big Burey Game.

One was the Junior Blurey Game. The Big Blurey Game maybe had about a hundred thousand cash growing over there. Baby Blurey Game maybe had about fifteen hundred dollars. I don't know how it got to on wrestling. All I know is is that Leon poet Big Baby was talking to as Tony Allen and Paul hyping it up, and so they on wrestle. Right, big Baby beats Leon. Okay, cool ticket. All of of a sudden, it's sitting there and he's like, we called Big Baby phone. So he's like,

what you're looking at phone? Why do you coming funk? It's inside. I'd rather not say that after our podcast because he liked to dance and we just you know, funk all right, cool, that's one of That's one reason we called him but here so big baby and Leon big baby. So Ticket instigates the situation for no reason. He's like, what you're looking at me? He's what you're looking at me for? Like what you you want some of this? So we're like, Baby's like, yeah, what's that

happening to y'all think? Because KG always felt like that big baby Leon and myself I felt that because we were bigger than him, like for his size wise, that we felt like we were stronger something than him. And he always had something to prove mentally. So he like, so y'all think something sweet about me. Let's go then, So now everybody like, okay, let's get it. So KG takes off his shirt him a big baby lock up. Now everybody placing bets right, all fears like I got

a ticket? Who want to face? Who want to take this better? So everybody like, let's beat. It's like ten thousand cash on the floor because Paul that matched everybody bet in clue mine I got big Baby, and I'm like, no way. KG is beaten, Big Baby and arrested. They get started, they lock up. KG is looking him in the eyes and now it take go right whoever? I think it was Ray holding the hands he let go Big Baby straining. KG is not trying to even move, He's not even trying to put any force. He just

holding it. Dare. He's like, yeah, you can't, you can't. You can't help with me. You can't help with me. I'm not I'm a silver back around here. I'm the silver baby, is straining trying to get him go. All of a Big Baby gets tired. The tickets just slowly booth. He stand up. Yeah, I'm the mL silver back on this plane and on this team, and he is like, my cheese. That's exactly how the story went. Detail for detail, and granted you were sitting right there, what what was

that experience like for you? That was everything happened. That's exactly the way it happened. But the punchline attack to the story. The funniest part was, uh, KG was doing that. He was pound himself in the chest and using the silverback thing and Max always uh, trying to have as much fun as he could as possibly with me. He turns, he goes, I dare you to use silverback on the air tomorrow? Did you use good? I'm known to have

some challenges in my writing. Someone will send me some messages, even some people who were for the Celtics send me a message and say, all right, here's the words that you gotta work into your post game story tonight. And I always figured out a way. What were you gonna say? Well, I heard one of the ways or one of the versions too with that big baby Perk used to hold on or like ground himself at the end of the table, and KG shut that down right before the matchup. So

KG saw something, and you know he probably did. He probably did. I mean KG, KG noticed everything. He may not say none, but he's observed. Well, he will say something, but he's always watched the two thousand eight team in Ubuntu and arm wrestling isn't the only story we're gonna tell. There's another one that that three of us were directly involved with, and we couldn't believe that it was happening

back in two thousand thirteen. The entire change of the trajectory of the organization, Granty, what stands out to you about the summer and kind of the shift in the paradigm around the Boston Celtics. Well, the final year of you know what I dubbed the new Big Three error, which is kind of stuck right. Perk is long gone, he's been back in the finals. Everyone's kind of disappeared. It was a sitcom that you knew was in its final year, like now it's oh Jason Terry starring is

Rae Allen. You know, you have guest stars and it you knew it was towards the end, and we all knew it was the end. And I called that year it was more of a basketball museum than it was a season. It's like come seeing Paul Pierce and Kevin Garner in their natural state. Because you knew the Celtics were gonna win the championship. They weren't a threat anymore to win, But what was going to happen next? It

seemed impossible. And going into that summer, you know, they made it some noise with the Knicks and they win Game four or five and eventually they lose, and what's going to happen? Because it felt as if the window to make the big trade. It felt as if that window had closed, that there there's no hope that you're just going to these guys are gonna wander off into free agency and you're gonna have to start from scratch.

And it just began this extraordinary process. We could not have possibly envisioned that we'd all be back a few months later, and Brad Stevens, guy from Butler, the guy that went to the final four a couple of times, that he would be the new coach, that the roster

would be completely you know, completely turned over. And in this over information age when you can't sneeze without it being on social media, the Celtics went from point A to their new point A in the follow and did so much of it under the radar without any warning.

Not just bright Stephen Signing gets all the attention that that's going to be the last story ever broken by press release, but that you know, old school there, even the trade itself and how that happened with the nets and the ramp up to it, that it's easy to

talk about two thousand and eight. There are a million stories from the championship season, just as there was from the original Big three with Larry and all those But it's the it's the subtle little stories like how do we get from here to here that is really fascinating to me. Because it launched. Obviously, within a year and a half later, you're back in the playoff conversation and we see so many teams that go five, six, seven, eight years really out of the mix, hoping for their break.

And how this thing did that cable car turn right? It's are in a new direction is pretty fascinating story to me. And you say summer of two thousand thirteen, I can still envision myself. I know exactly where I was drinking Margarita's at the Granary Tavern down to the Financial district of Boston. It was like the first warm day ever. And I look at my phone and I see this news alert come through that the Celtics hired Brad Stevens and I was I remember looking at it

saying what no way, and I put it away. I thought it was wrong. I was like, they'll figure it out.

What what are they talking about? And it is amazing to me sean something that everything was so under the radar, And I think it's really important to remember even now that we are in the midst of trade season and we hear all these rumors and all this information swirling around anything that comes from the Celtics directly they want out because their operation is small enough everyone in there knows what is involved and so they don't those little

leaks or something. If you just hear a little nugget that is not coming from the Celtics, because that that Brad Stevens contract in him signing, in that announcement, it kind of started this little game. I feel like it's a game in the Celtics front office that they're just like, all right, how can we keep this from anyone? Knowing how long can we keep this going? Because that's not the first or the last time the Celtics have broken

their own news. It happens all the time and it continues to this day, even which is insane given the shams in the Wojes of the world who are breaking news left and right. It's crazy. But I feel like it's an internal game with the Celtics that they're like, they're like, we're gonna keep this internal. You guys aren't

gonna hear about it until we press the button. Yeah, but way do you hear on that secret, quiet, secretive flight to Indiana that Mike's, Aaron and Danny h had the same arm wrestling contest right off the whole the whole thing on the way. I would pay to watch that. You know. You know what's crazy with that whole breakup of the Big Three era that I feel like we don't talk about is that Doc Real has got traded, right, like he has a quote unquote yeah but kind of traded.

What you mean that didn't the Celtics get something back in? Yeah, technically you can't trade a coach, so they had to release him from his contract in for compensation. But yeah, it wasn't an official trade, but it was Park. Here, here's the park. Here's the drama right with Doc, because Doc was in this situation where he had to say how much you want to stay? But there are this

is something we know. There are two NBA's right, there's the Thursday night t n t ABC Game of the Week Kenny and Charles NBA, and then there's the Tuesday Night League Pass NBA. Right, there's two nbas there, but Doc, you know this perk, Doc can't exist in that other NBA. That's his that Mike on his that's his oxygen. He needs that, you know, he needs to be in that first NBA. He wasn't gonna be able to exist in

that second one. So so but look it's hard though, right you go from you go from what we were setting records for national televised games, like what every other game we had a national televised game. You don't want to go back to starting when you only getting televised games. Like Doc was past that. He was a chip. He needed to be so well and you know doctor doctors say what he wants. But he loved the line like he loved he loved it. He loved it. He loved it.

He wanted to pull out of this school. If you notice on televison when it's televised, you always get a technical file and how about you'll remember this from Park whenever it's the national TV TV game. He had that chalk for Leon Leon always we gotta you know what? And that was and that God love him. That was and people are like that. But that was Doc and he needed to be in that world. And that world's part of the NBA is better for having him in it.

Everything that had to happen in needed to happen. But the best part about what we're talking about right now, and the same thing with the Boon two story, This is literally just the tip of the iceberg. And when when we're able to talk to all of the parties that were involved with these stories and put these stitch these stories together, it's gonna be incredible. It's gonna be like a mini documentary on these really incredible stories that

no one really knows the details about. And then on top of that, throughout this season, we're also gonna be well, we hope that we're gonna be getting some pretty high level interviews. I know, Abby, you've got a couple of people on your list you want to talk to you

this year, right for sure. I mean, I think tops on our list is NBA Commissioner Adam Silver and asking him to be behind the scenes of what has been I mean, we're coming up on a year now of unprecedented NBA drama and to hear what his perspective from that, and asking him questions that no one else has or will.

And then also I mean just tapping into obviously the guys who we have at the most access to and who we know the best guys like Marcus Smart, who we know never stops talking on the court and never stops talking when he's in the locker room. I'm really curious to hear what the kind of stories he can tell about. I want to learn more about him and his upbringing. We know a lot about that, but he is such an incredible story and I'm really looking forward

to speaking to him and and many other players. And there's yeah, there's so many more stories that that we're hoping to tell. And really, you know, there's there's legends who have come through this organization that we have access to that no one else has access to. Great storytellers like Bill Walton, who we're going to try to get

on the podcast. There's a long list of high level celebrity legends in people who have come through this organization and made game changing and taking part in game changing moments that we're looking to have a part of this first season. One of those people is actually our guest for this episode. You might think that this is it for this episode. No, no, no, we got a lot

more coming. And that's going to be an interview in a conversation with none other than Celtics President of Basketball operations Danny Angel that's coming up in just a moment. But guys, we know Danny in a way that not many people on the outside know him. Right, Like Perk, You've you've had a relationship with him since back in two thousand three. You have seen things with him behind closed doors that not a lot of people have seen.

What is different about you know him as a person that that people on the outside might not understand about who he really is. Well, Dan is a great guy, family man. He's gonna give it to you straightforward. He's not gonna That's the thing I respect most about Danny is that he never lied to me ever. Ever, And you don't find general managers. You don't find guys with his role that that's in his role that keep it

straight with you. You used to always tell me, I'm going out to scout and I'm going to find somebody that's better than you. Right, that's his job, Rondo, I'm gonna find someone that's better than you. Like, he would never lie. He was he was always honest and he's a great man. Like if he genuinely he genuinely cares about you, like as a person, then then I have phone conversations all the time about life, not basketball, about life like basketball is secondary to what goes on and

everyday live, everyday life. He's a mentor to me personally because we relate on a lot of things. Danny Age outside of basketball is one of the best human beings in the world. Danny Age has come and sat down with me on a bus ride. Mark to me, I mean, I am not an important person. He has taken time out to come seek me out on a bus ride and ask me about my life and where I'm going and what I want to accomplish and my family and whatnot. Why does Danny Ainge care about this? It's just who

he is. But these are some of the things that we want to dive into and talking to him and learning about him as the person um and maybe not necessarily the things that everyone knows on the outside granty. You've known him for a really long time. What stands out to you about Danny Inge Um that that might not be you know out there in the public. That the same mischievous intellectual curiosity that he had when we first saw him as a player, that he carries that

with him today. And I think there's two things I think what you're what you're hitting at, Mark, is that if he's had that conversation with you, he's had it with me, he's had it with Perk, he's had it with everybody because he does genuinely care and he wants to get to know you on us on a certain level. And it's you can't fake. He'sn't doing this eighteen years, eighteen years and one job, and that job in the

NBA that is a lifetime. That's insane. And when you hear players, you can make the argument that that job should be done at arm's length. You know, with gms that don't travel around the team, they don't want to get to know the players would be a part of their lives because they have to make these tough decisions and make cuts and trade players away. But Danny has always thrown himself in and that makes it more personal

for him. And when he is in a situation to make the Kevin in a trade that is a heart. It was the I don't want to say, the biggest no brainer in history, but everything I've been built towards that moment. That was hard for him to trade away all the young players that he had drafted, that he had cultivated all the guys that came in with Park in the year or two after. That was hard for him to do, but he wouldn't be He puts such a personal Danny Age stamp on the way he lives

his life and does this job. It's it's so unique to him. Well, I think that's the perfect segue into this conversation, so let's jump right into it. Here's our conversation with Celtics President of Basketball Operations, the coach, the broadcaster, the player, the executive for the Celtics, and obviously the family man, Danny A. Well, Danny Age, thank you for joining us. Are you excited as excited about this being our first guest on the Celtics Podcast as we are

to have you here. I'm sure you're amped up about this. Are you not very flattered? Very flattering? Well, we're all appreciative of you taking the time out, especially at this time of the year. We know it's busy. Uh and and that's what we want to talk about briefly here. Just to start. I feel like some people out there kind of just feel like the trade deadline, the buyout season,

draft day. I think they feel like you just press buttons, and it's just a button pusher, and there's an easy buttony either make a deal or not make a deal. But I know that you guys put in hours and hours and weeks and months of work leading up to those days. Can you kind of just give us an idea of what goes into the lead up to those particular days and the work that you and your team put in before you actually get to those deadlines. Yeah,

the deadlines are pretty busy. I wish I wish that UM at trade deadline that we could do a documentary and just see what happens. I've actually had we can do that. That's what this is. I've actually had um staff members that aren't normally in those meetings come in and that's just blown away. They had no idea what actually went on, just how busy it is. But leading up to it, there's a lot of conversation that leads

up to deadlines. Draft, I mean draft, you go through you know, a hundred workouts of players and flying in and visiting and meeting and interviewing, uh a lot of different players and trade deadlines are basically watching basketball, watching a lot of NBA games during the season, talking to other teams, trying to figure out what teams needs are

and what your needs maybe to improve. But you know, making actual trades and making drafts is very complicated because it's a lot of time and you've got to come down to a decision, like a lot of different ideas internally with players and coaches and owners and staff that all put a lot of time and effort and have a lot of stay get decision times and then you have to make a decision. And so it's fun. It's intense, it's grueling at times, and but it's it's very enjoyable.

It's a it's a fun process, and through that whole process you get to, uh, you know work, Like I think the greatest part of my job is just relationships.

Like you know, the relationship I developed with Perk in his time here, I just felt like we just raised him up, you know, and I got some fun stories, you know, like we just like and then you know, he goes on to play somewhere else and he probably doesn't know this, but like we watched so many of his games, rooted for him and cheered cheered him on, and um, we've had a lot of players come in here through the last five or six years especially, But anyway, Yeah,

that's that's the bad part of the job is trading players that you love that you've invested a lot of time and motion into. Um. And you know, I was a player that was traded twice, so I understand the feelings that you have and UM. So it's just if there's there's good and bad and art and challenging and but most of the job is fun because you're around good people and it's basketball like, not real work. Firk Howdy, How did Danny raise you up? If you got to

look back at that, I mean it was crazy. But I I tell people like, I think when you get drafted, especially as a young as a young player, the organization that you go to matters because I think once they started, you know, once the culture and everything started working in for you, the front office start telling you the truth like Danny and I did and had a lot of conversations were he just kept it one hundred, He kept it real on what I need to do, how needed

to work, UM, things I didn't need to do. So I think when you see when you look at the average years of the NBA players with three and a half four years, right, and you're trying to exceed that and be get into those ten plus years. It all, it all matters what organization you go to. And that's why you see a lot of young guys don't paying out because yeah, one is on them and you can't you can't blame nobody else. But I think it's also

the organization and the culture that you go to. And Dan it was just a hundred percent honest with me on in a lot of areas, not just basketball wise, but off the court issues. And he helped me with a lot of the off the court issues that I had coming in a lot of people that was around me that didn't mean well things to that nature. So um, I was very thankful and grateful for that. But d A, I always tell people used to be so honest with us that when you was going out to scout or

look at players. Used to always say, hey, I'm well not to find somebody this better than you like. Do you still do that? Do you still do that? Now? You know? I will to some guys that have that are pretty secure and who they are. Um, but you know you have to read look in sensitive. I gotta be a little bit more careful nowadays. Hurt and it was fun with you guys. I can tell you in KG and Paul and Ray and anybody like, that's my job is better players better than you. Danny, that's a

popular I'm glad you said that. That's a popular narrative now that about younger players today, about millennials, different work ethic, all of it different, thin skin, thick skin. But it almost seems like everything that every older generation has ever said about every younger generation in the history of generations, that they are different. It's been twenty five years now. As a coach and a GM, our players legitimately different. Now,

has there been an evolution? Should have some kind and how players are, how they carry themselves, how you have to deal with them. Yeah, I think the major I think the change the changes aren't major, but I think that's social media and what we see. It's just our our culture has changed as much um in how we treat people as opposed to older other generations. And we all know that, like how it affects each individual child.

That raised six kids and I have fifteen grandkids, and they're all different, and they all some of them are older generation type of people, and some of them are being affected more by the younger generations. So you know, I think it's just what's happening culturally. I love the players of today. I think they're amazing. They think they're great kids. I think they work every bit as hard as any generation that's ever been, if not harder, just

because we have so much more we have. I mean when I started coaching, I had a couple of assistant coaches and a trainer and a strength coach. I mean now you got four strength coaches and four physios and trainers, and you have three full time chefs that feed you breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and I need that, and so like it's just it's a different it's a different world. Um, there's a lot more people, a lot more money in the NBA, and so I think the money it has changed all

has changed who players are as well. There's so much money. The disparity between a forty million dollar player and a one million dollar player. I think when I came into the league, it was I think Bird was making four hundred thousand and the minimum was fifty So it was like there wasn't this huge gap and difference between it as there as there is now. Mum, so there's a lot of a lot of things that have affected this generation.

I don't really like to label generations, honestly, but I'm just saying that there are players that are that can take it better. And I try to be able to discern that. And the reason I would I could say that to Perk and is because Perk could take it like he He would laugh at it, like I knew he wouldn't be offended by it. They might even motivate him. And you know, he would say back to me, said,

good luck the egg because you probably ain't finding anybody. Yeah, And he was right, especially if you're saying that stuff to KG and Paul Beers and Rondo even. But Danny, have you seen you talk about the difference in the locker room? Have you seen a difference in the dynamic in the way that players, the way that you can lead a group of menet and and just how guys

react differently to each other. Well, you know, I always say that there are you know, like everybody as a leader in the in the locker room, like everybody is either leading positively or leading someone down the wrong road, leading negatively and dragging you down. But everybody leads in some way or fashion. There's a few exceptions of people that aren't really doing one where another they're just neutral.

But um, you know, you have the ability to lead every every single player on that team, even if it's an impact on one person on your team. But another big difference is, um, you know, we now have seventeen players. It was a challenge with twelve. You know, like you've got twelve players. I mean one one of the one of hard things of coaching is, Um, you go into a locker room after a huge win, and you know, everybody's happy, with the exception of the four guys that

aren't playing or the three guys that aren't playing. Now you've got seven to ten guys that aren't playing or and some of those guys aren't playing enough. You know. It's the amount of players is is challenging for coaches because like they all have feelings and all have emotions and they all have a voice. And so UM, I think I think the coaching is becoming harder and harder with more players to manage and more coaches. Isn't the

answer because you've got to manage them too. Well. What the to that point, right, I want to ask you this how important or do you think it's still important to have like veteran leaders in the locker room to help with those egos, Like like you per that's when you were at the end of your career. Yeah, it was.

And I'm looking at guys like even guys like Jared Dudley, you know, uh that helped manage those egos, keep guys in tag, keep them motivated, keeping focused, make sure that they take like they could take some of the pressure off the coaches, right, Yeah, listen, I think that they're

that leadership one the veterans. I mean, I think some of some great leaders have been young players to perk Um, I mean, I think that the concept of I've been around a long time in this business and I've seen a lot of teams try to hire veterans in the locker room. You know, bring a veteran. These young guys need a veteran, and it hasn't worked out so good. Those veterans weren't as good leaderships as their reputations were.

Or we needed an older player so or we need to hire guys to be coaches that are just finished out of their careers to make the transition and to give that coach that leadership they need. So, like you say, like people that are hearing the truth, understanding who they really are. Um, you know, the a lot of players think that they're way more important than they really are, as opposed to not understanding the amazing opportunity that they

have in their life and how unique it is. And um, I won't say a player's name, but there was a player I was playing with in the in the eighties who I believed was a terrific player and had such a bright future and he acted out in a way that you wouldn't want to act out if you're the eleventh or twelfth play on those teams. And he was cut by the Celtics, and you know, my initial thought was, well, you know, maybe he'll get a chance to go play

somewhere else. And you know this, this team is pretty staffed. But that player never played in the NBA game. You got cut a couple more times, and like that opportunity was there for him, Like I think he was gonna blossom in our culture, but it wasn't happening on his timeline and and his career was over. And we see that, like it's so important for players to make it work wherever they are and do the best they can with whatever opportunities they get until they until they have control

of where they can where they can play. But they you don't want to just act out and hope that that that's gonna make it better, because that could just get you a red slip and and you might not get that opportunity there. There there's a lot of players out there right now. They are every bit as good as players that are in the NBA. And you know that as well as anybody Perked. There's a lot of

good play is out there. There's a lot of competition for jobs, especially jobs ten through seventeen, and uh, when you get when you get one of those jobs, you've gotta value it and be grateful for it and make the most of whatever it is. So, Danny, you mentioned that player from the eighties, I'm curious how often does that happen now? Like, how many times have you seen that type of situation play out while you've been president and GM of the Celtics team. Um, it's played out

for sure. Um, Yeah, there are players like like Perk said, like, I don't take any credit for perks success. Um as an example, it it is Perk. You know, like he listened, He listened to the right voices, He took advice. A lot of players aren't, you know, don't aren't listening. They they're not they're not listening, or they're incapable of, you know, making good choices and being staying discipline and on a on a true path. But Perk became a great player

because he wasn't. He didn't come into the NBA great player. Came into in the NBA as a guy that had to work his tail off to get he was a perk. He just said, you didn't come in as a great player. No, he was. He was. He had a great potential. But I think we get Yeah, yeah, I got I got some documents. I got Perk. And I've joked about this before, but I got some documented three minute run times, vertical jumper, body fat tests. If you share that information, no, it's

it's secret, it's hip A violations. We've got to get that information. But yeah, but Perk was, as an example, was a guy that he would listen and he would respond, and he would take it and he would become better as a result. And you know, like just like I wish all my children and grandchildren would always listen, and they don't. You know, it's unfortunate it they just don't, and sometimes they have to learn the hard way. And that was the example of what happened within back in

the eighties. But yeah, there have been a couple of players have come through here that just don't value their opportunity, don't recognize what amazing chance it is, and have never

been back in the league sense. It's one of the lessons that we've taken from the last few years and over the entire span of your again coach GM president career, the fact that in that locker room that you're talking about, where there are guys who are going to have different roles, that there really does need to be a cast system. That it's not a democracy where all fifteen or seventeen

guys are equal. Yeah, I mean I think that there's um, you know, hopefully they're all treated equal by other players and the coaches, but of course they're not equal opportunity and equal minutes, um. But I think equal respect and equal appreciation for all those players. But yeah, there's there's no doubt that some players are just better and more valuable,

and a lot of players really struggle with that. They struggle with the fact that somebody else is getting more bad shots before they come out, or you know, like one, you know, they give one defensive mistake and they're out and this guy has made three already. Yeah, there's just they're just differences and that's always going to exist. And your job is to prove to the coach that he needs you in the court. It's not a coach's job to treat everybody fairly. It's a player's job to prove

to the coach needs you. And it's just that simple. It hasn't changed. Like my job, I gotta go out there and beat this first round draft pick out. When I was a Celtic, we had had to be first round draft picks out every year because they're not drafting big men because we have the three first ballot Hall of Famers, So I gotta beat out new guards every year. But that's you just have to prove to the coach he needs to you on the court. And that's every coach wants to win. And that's your job. And if

you can't do it, don't blame the coach. You haven't done it. And I think that that's that's uh. Where the challenges lie. And that's why seventeen is so much harder than twelve. So, Danny, if we've got a new age of player who you know, as the decades go on and the years go on, you might have to treat them differently based upon you know, what society is

at that time. How have officials changed, and the way that you interact with officials the way that you did when you were a player in the eighties versus now when you're sitting courtside in an empty arena, and they can hear every word that you and Mike Zarin scream at them. Well they can't. I wish they could, but no, I actually I'm glad I got my mask on and

they can't hear it. In fact, sometimes they'll yell something and they'll turn around and look and I'll like look at Allison and say or mice there, and it was then they yelled it. But I think that you know, the play that the game has definitely changed. I mean when I was playing, referees would talk to you a lot,

and there wasn't as much scrutiny on the officials. There wasn't every every call that they make being analyzed by the world on instant replace, but also in the front in the league office and grading them on a system of theirs success and failures and the calls that they made, which like, even after we see video replay and even after we all are watching it, there's still are many debates on whether that was a good call or matical, like we still leave and don't know which what it was,

which was the right call? Often So the thing I liked about the older day is better, a little better. Um, there's there's a lot to like what's happening now, and I think the game is getting better and better officiated.

But in the in the older days, it was the well, yeah, you he hit it out, but you hit his arm and knocked it out, and you don't want to call foul, so I just gave them the ball, and you can't do that, Like you gotta be literal in the right calls, Like it doesn't make any sense right now to me that you go to an instant replay to see who's fingernail it hit when it rolled out, even though the guy hacked his arm to prevent him from getting the ball, Like I agree, And so it's just I don't understand

why they go to replay, he still can't get the call right, and so that's what's uh, that's what I appreciated about then versus now. But like I said, with that scrutiny, you know, the referees are held to a very high standard and they're trying to get as many calls right as they can. And I think that for that that's better. I feel like we've seen a lot

more players arguing calls. Mark talked about your emotions. Do sometimes when you see Brad Stevens though on the side lines, and I know we can't hear what he's saying under the mask, but just how stowick he stays and how even keeled he is through I mean, virtually it feels like every moment whatever is happening on the court, do you look at him kind of in amazement and wonder

how he has that kind of self control. Well, I mean it's one of the things that that attracts me to Brad as a coach, Like I think that it's amazing his temperament. Now, I do know Brad and I do watch him, and he does have like this crazy competitive side to him, and he does lose his mind on occasion, but you know, the more you lose your mind in front of your team, UM, I don't think that's a you know, I think it's okay on occasion,

but I think over time, where's you then? But I also think that you know, the referees aren't listening there. You know, the more you're yelling and screaming, you know, maybe there are a young ref that you could take advantage of. But for the most part, ress I learned from experience, you know, like yelling at the rest doesn't really help. I wish I had known that when I was twenty two, But I think that um, docture didn't

know that no doctor doctors is on the rest. But I think that, um, you know, some of that is just your own is this personality thing. But Brad, I think understands that it's not beneficial and when he needs to, but I think sometimes he just like loses it and goes goes off his rocker. But he hasn't done anything

like I've done. Like I went out on the court and like kicked the ball that was sitting right on the court and just kicked it about twenty rows up into the stands for an immediate rejection, which is what

the ejection, which is what I wanted. Um but yeah, just but I like the person, I like the stable, just the Brad because you know, players are so emotional and the players are going through all of this emotion and so having somebody that's not for you now and going living his life in emotional states um is I think is part of his great leadership, Like you just can't when you've got players that are doing the same thing.

We need stability and you know, and like I said, there's a time and a place to stand up for a player. There's a time and a place to you know, hold the referee accountable to what you think is not being done right. But I think Brad has a very good balance of that. I think he's under control the most of the time, which is what I think is important. Was that part of what you first noticed about him.

The story is legendary. Now you and pag see how you got the final four in ten and she and Tschowsky walk on the court and you're like, there's the best coach in college basketball, and pack just assumed you were talking about Mike Sachowski. But if that story, to whatever degree it is true, and then again has become urban legend. He must have been on your radar way before that. So when were you first aware of Brad

Stevens at Yeah, well before two ten. But you know, like when I go out and watch college games, Um, you know, I watched coaches. I watched the coaches and how they're interacting with players. I always try to get seats that give me a good view of the bench, close to the bench. Um, but I'm watching the interaction. So as I'm scouting players, Um, I'm not so much scouting coaches, but I'm learned looking at how the coaches

are reacting, how the players reacting to that coach. I mean there's some fun ones, but I mean maybe the most fun guy to that entertained me the most, and I always wanted to get a seat by the Yukon bench. Oh he was a crack up, Jim Calhoun. He had me laughing so many times. But it was just as entertaining as the game itself. I love Jim Calhoun, but he was He's hysterical. To got to talk to Kemba

about that. I wanted to kind of go back to something you talked a little bit about with Perk and Um, just the relationships that you have not only with these guys, but with coaches, I mean even members of the media. When we were preparing for this, we talked about what stands out to you about Danny and that it is really that we feel like you do care about us as people and and you make an effort to reach out and actually um touch people and and speak with them.

And so my question to you is, in your job, how do you separate that those relationships? How do you balance that when it comes to the time to make tough decisions because you do have this reputation that everyone and no one is safe, everyone is tradeable if it's a deal that makes the team better, and so how do you emotionally balance that? Well, like I said, I

mean it's it's uh. I think you know, the hardest thing is when you have to cut players, um that you know you're you're hurting a dream, You're preventing them from accomplishing a dream. When you when you trade players that's still they're one of four D fifty players that are in the world that are playing in the NBA and making a good, good amount of money. It's still not easy at all. It's really hard, especially when um you have invested a lot of time and emotion into

their lives. I think that, um, you know, you just I have a job to do and I have to try to help them be prepared for the real world. And it's like, it's no different than a child that's not getting a chance to play or you know, you don't just run and change schools and go find a coach that's gonna play you more like no, you teach them to fight and work hard and um, but I think the relationships are the most important part of of

what we do. And I think that, Um, the greatest joy that I have in my job is those relationships better than hanging champ ship banners. Better than you know, making a good living. It's the relationships. As I look back on my career coaching and in this job, that's what I Why why, Danny, Why is that stuff so important to you? Because they last, they last forever, And UM,

I think those relationships they matter a great deal. Like those are My greatest joys in life come from my friends and Cola ex players and ex coaches I've worked with and played with, UM, and I'm grateful for that. To learn as a player when my career was over, and I look back and I have a couple of championship rings. I've had a good career and played on great teams, but it was those relationships I had with coaches and players that was the most meaningful by far.

How do you establish those relationships now with guys who were I mean, for some of the guys on the team, you're three times their age. How how do you relate to guys who have been brought up in a completely different situation than you. They're they're living a totally different

life at that age than you did. I just don't understand how you're capable of connecting so deeply with them, because I mean a lot of players will jump on and say in media sessions how cool you are and that they would they like, want to hang out with you, and that's that's not always the case. I would imagine that's not the case everywhere around the league. Well listen, I mean, there there's definitely um players that are that connect with anybody more connect with a certain player or

connect with a certain executive. And so I've had connections that are much deeper and longer lasting than other players who think I am too old or don't like to hear what I have to tell them, or you know, don't like their role in the team, and you know, think that they're not being treated fairly. So I mean that there's a lot of players that have come through that I haven't developed great relationships with. But um, you know, and I under stand it. I understand those ones that

don't want to connect with me. They don't think I can see the world from their perspective, but um, you know, and so I don't want to make it seem like I have connection. Uh. This is really a great connection with every single player because it takes two people to

really connect. And UM, but I really value those those um, because relationships are hard and they're challenging sometimes, and UM, I value those ones that have been hard and we've been through tough tough times and tough things, and um, whether it's life or family or their careers. UM. But there's some that seek out my counsel and and come to my office and want to talk through difficult times

and something that don't. It's interesting because there are a lot of colleagues of yours in different sports who are averse to developing those relationships because of the decisions they have to make. And it occurs to me now just hearing you talk about it, obviously from a huge in the standpoint, all the relationships who developed. I came in as a young announcer and I said, you know what, I'm gonna stay away from the players because I don't want to I have to talk about them on the air.

And I realized that was just colossally stupid and a mistake of youth, because getting to know people is what this experience is about. It makes It's made me better at my job. And it just occurred to me hearing you talk about it with so many who don't go that path. Has the connections you've made have obviously been benefited you from a human standpoint? Have they made you better at your job? Connecting with players the way that you do, I think so. I think I think it's helped,

you know. Like I said, I wish I could connect with all of them. I wish they all listened to the counsel I give them because I only want their success and wherever they're, wherever they're playing, wherever their future is, whether it's with us or with someone else. But like I said, they don't always and but hopefully they have someone else they're listening to, they can give them good counsel and a lot do. A lot of players have really good people around them that, um, so they don't

need to they don't need my counsel or advice. So I'm not offended by that. I just want I just think that players know that I care about them, and there what happens to him, and so you know, I know that from the outside world, like when a guy like perchestrated, as an example, keep using pert because he left us so now we can talk bad about it.

We did anyway, But you know it's it's those those times, are those memories are are just special and um but like I said, they're not always rosy, like they don't have to be just like a marriage relationship or a father's son relationship or like you know, truth is more important than you know, trying to always paint, you know, put a smile on everybody's face, like, you know, being

honest and forthright with people matters. And I honestly, like before you jumped on, when we were all talking as a group about you, that's what stood out the most to all of us about who you are as a person, not necessarily who you are as the executive or the coach or the player. It's who you are as a person and that that's what stood out to us, and I'm sure that stands out to every player who comes through the Celtics door. Is no question. Yeah. I probably

wouldn't dispute the every player part of it. There's some there's some players that probably don't you know, aren't that fond of me. But I'm okay with that. Like I that doesn't that doesn't bother me, and I don't I don't have to be uh validated by every single player.

There's something there's not a connection with it. Have you always done the job that way from the moment you started being a GM or is that something that you saw in general managers that you enjoyed working with or is that just who you are as a person, because not everyone does it that. I think it's a combination. I think that part of it is just my personality.

And but I like people like I just I just do you know when when I remember my high school coach who was a legend in the state of Oregon, and my two older brothers had played and so I was around the team as a ball boy and watching practice, and you know, and I was around and he was a tough, tough son of a gun, and he was and my brothers were not big fans, and it was really hard. And I watched this, you know, all the time and growing up in my middle school years, and

I loved him. I thought he was an amazing coach. And of course he wasn't ever yelling at me. And uh, but you know, when I got to high school, like I would, I created a much looser atmosphere than this coach had created. I even made him laugh in front of the whole team some And you know, instead of it always being salty about who this coach was, I had grown to to really be fond of him. And I think it helped our team, that it helped our relationship. And I just think that I've always wanted that. I

don't mind being criticized. I don't mind a player not liking what I have to say. Um, I don't seek that validation. I just like, um, good people that can influence your life for good. I've been fortunate to be around a lot of people that have helped me, you know, have perspective just by a smile or a shape conference short conversation, and I think people help us how much

time is there too? You can watch hours of video on a player and games and talk to their how much time is there as you're prepared airing for a draft in any given year to investigate that part of a young man who want to bring into the organization, the non basketball stuff that's such a big part of a market, smart or other guys. How do you find it and how do you have to rely on some of the instincts we've been talking about about personal relationships

that you've had. Yeah, so you know, I would say last year the toughest part of not having those opportunities of So we do a lot of background checks. We talked with college professors, college coaches, assistant coaches, um director of basketball operations, trainers, high school of teachers. I mean, there's we do so much in background checks on a lot of guys that are potential candidates. But that's you know, perspectives from others. It there's nothing quite like sitting down.

That's the end of the store right there, right There's nothing like meaning down at your moment and whether it it's you know, just one on one, nobody else around and just visiting and talking and hearing what they're like. After after spending time and work out and going and just being with a person one on one, I think

that there's great value. And I mean probably, um, I think that the guys that that made the most impact on me where I you know, just fell in love with them as people on top of players, might have been Rondo and Rogier might have been the two guys that nobody else was really that excited about and um where we were drafting and you know, but their personalities and we just connected and I felt like it wasn't just like I'm not trying to find people that will

just connect with me, but I'm trying to find people that are passionate and you know that have and sometimes it's not I mean, obviously those two guys are completely differ, Darry and Rondo, but they so it's not like I'm looking for one certain type of person as much as just a passion, a love, a drive, uh you know listening um universe, just I just felt the connection those guys. Do you judge your orders, Danny, if someone gets a chicken burrito versus the case is that your is the

burrito your guy. I mixed it up occasionally, but I'm mostly off the chicken now and uh mostly go for the tofu, But yeah, I mix it up. Perks back, we're wrapping things up. You got anything, no that that that was my apologies. I'm trying to multi tasks. I had to make sure I come back in at the end. Kiss d A D. I just wanted to tell you

I appreciate you everything that you've done for me. And look, I see you haven't called me in a long time, right, I hope I used you off by some mine and saying on two you bet he's looking for broadcasters who are better than you, so perk you could you you actually, I don't think you could offend me even if you tried,

So don't ever worry. You can say whatever you You can say whatever you want on TV all you guys, Well, Danny, I think everything that you have just said has backed up the words that we all said about you before you came on. Um, you're a great human being and and that's that's the point of this entire conversation, so that every everyone out there can learn a little bit about who you are behind the curtain, and not just the guy who who's making the moves to put this

team together. So we really appreciate your time and we're looking we're looking forward to talking to you again down the line on this podcast. Thanks for being our first guest ever. Appreciate you before. I appreciate all you guys and and Mark. You've done a great job and I follow you on Twitter and I think you do an excellent job for all of our media things in the Celtics. Abby, you're a champ and I'm glad you're getting this great opportunity to, you know, take a step off and you're

doing a wonderful job. Perk, you're a rookie still and but Perky, Yeah, you gotta go get the food man. You gotta make the make u. Perk. You have some strong, strong opinions and I find it very very entertaining, even though I disagree with half of them. They are hilarious. That's a pretty good ratio. And just Perk, I got two words for you, carry on and Sean, I think

you're the best in the business. Um. I love when we're playing at home, and I sometimes will leave in the fourth quarter when I'm not so happy about how the game is going. But I listened to your take. I've listened to our games on radio many, many times, and I really do believe you're the best in the entire business, and we're lucky to have you in our organizations.

One time when Gerald Green, the first Gerald Green stint, when he was a rookie coming out of high school and had some had some issues right acclimating to the NBA game. And one night, I think I got so frustrated with some of his decision making. I said, in the heat of the moment, man, if Jerald Green, I guarantee when he goes to the supermarket, he picks the wrong lane to check out every time. And Danny pulled me, so I think he's gonna yell at me for saying

that about he goes. That was the funniest thing I ever heard. All Right, well, Danny, thanks again. Put a bow on it. That's the end of episode one and we're looking forward to seeing everyone for episode two coming up next week. Thank you, Danny. Alright, guys, they say