Season 3 episode 9: Navigating life with glaucoma related vision loss: Liz Holmes

Announcer: Welcome to the Vets First Podcast, a research-based conversation centered around the VA health care system, its services, and patients. From Iowa city, Iowa, here's your hosts: Dr. Levi Sowers and Brandon Rea. Levi Sowers: Welcome back to the very first podcast today. We're lucky to have Elizabeth Holmes. She's the Blinded Veterans Association National Secretary. Elizabeth or Liz Holmes, as she likes to be called, is part of the Georgia Regional Group. She's an Army veteran, and during her career, she attended both basic and advanced Ordnance Courses and Airborne school. In 1976, she was commissioned to a second lieutenant ordnance specialty. Following her military service, Ms. Holmes became a United States Postal Service employee, serving in a variety of capacities until she was forced to retire in 2014 due to her vision loss, which was from glaucoma. As always, I have Brandon here with me. Brandon Rea: Hi, everyone. Levi Sowers: And Elizabeth, welcome to the podcast. We're really excited to have you here now. Elizabeth Holmes: I'm glad to be here. I hope I can help. Brandon Rea: Elizabeth Just kind of just from the get go, tell us a little bit about yourself. Like, where are you from? Does anything go on? Share how you got into the military. Like, tell us a bit about you. Elizabeth Holmes: Okay. I was born and raised in the South side of Chicago, about 15 minutes from Indiana. You can actually walk to Indiana. And I had no intentions or anything about joining any service. But I went to- when I went to college, I went to DePaul University, and they had an ROTC program and they didn't have any females. And I'm like, okay, let me try this out. And it seemed like, you know, I was at the point where anything a guy can do, I can probably do it. Not better, but I'll do it my way. So I went ahead and joined the service. I know my parents didn't particularly care for it, but I got to do what I want to do. Levi Sowers: Yup. Elizabeth Holmes: I joined the service and I, you know, sort of glad I was a reserve officer, which only gave me four years of active, just continued service. But I went on active duty for 11 years, which I sort of like because I went to, you know, all over the States and I went to Korea and then I went to Germany. So- Levi Sowers: What year did you serve? Elizabeth Holmes: I served from 1976 to 1987. Levi Sowers: Very nice. Elizabeth Holmes: The Army was the army where you wear those black boots and you did everything in those black boots. Not like it is now. [laughter] Brandon Rea: Now, do you still have those black boots? Elizabeth Holmes: Somewhere in the attic. Brandon Rea: Nice. Elizabeth Holmes: I wouldn’t put them on. I don't even think I want to wear BDUs anymore. I wouldn't mind the c-rations that came in the can because those were good but the MREs that they have? No, thank you. But then I enjoyed myself. I made sure that I did things that I wanted to do, you know, fulfilling my position, whatever I had and I met a lot of great people. And unfortunately or fortunately, I have not to this point, have met somebody that I served with. I still correspond with two individuals that I met back in 83. But other than that, there's no no one that I served with, which is it? You can say it's good or not good. Levi Sowers: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, sure. So when you left the military, the bit of the background that we just read. You went in, you went and became a postal Service employee. Elizabeth Holmes: Yes. Well, I joined the Postal Service because I wanted to keep- since I've been retired from the military and wanted to keep the federal years. So that was the best thing to do, was join the post office because you can buy back your used to retire at a better rate. So I had 7 to 11 years for the military. Then I had 25 years, which gave me 36 and a half years federal, which is a good number! Levi Sowers: That's impressive. That's impressive. So where did you do your ROTC training? Elizabeth Holmes: I did that in oh, that was a good one. That was in 1975 at Fort Riley, Kansas. And that was the first time they had women attending those camps. And I think they did us an injustice because they didn't want us getting dirty because there was a lot of camera crews there. They didn't want us to get dirty climbing under the barbed wire. They just didn't want us to do certain things. And I think that was an injustice because if you're going to be in the military, you got to do what you have to do. And- so but I did it. And the guys who went before me, they all had this reconnaissance badge - they called it a recon badge. And I figured, if all of them can do everything, all the the exercises, you know, required for that, then I was gonna do the same thing. So I did! Levi Sowers: That’s awesome. Brandon Rea: I'm noticing a trend. Oh they can do that? I can do that, too. Elizabeth Holmes: Yeah, I did. You know and now that I think back about it I say, “Man, you’re crazy!” [laughter] Elizabeth Holmes: Climbing of buildings and stuff like that, you know? I even went out - during ROTC, we had- we were going to have an exposition of rappelling and I says, “Okay!” So to show- not really to show off but to show other women, “you can do this!” I went ahead and rappelled off the building, you know, and it was, you know, like, “Whoa!” But it was a- you know, but I just got to a point where, hey, if I wanted to do something, you know? Where there's a will, there's a way. And that's what I do and that's how I got started. So, you know, with everything that I do now, and now I stop and think, “Crazy.” Brandon Rea: But now you have those stories to go back to, though. Elizabeth Holmes: Well. That's true and you tell some of them and they’re like, “What's wrong with you?” [laughter] Elizabeth Holmes: But I did go to o you said ya’ll went to airborne training, but I didn't finish because- Levi Sowers: Oh? Elizabeth Holmes: That's what because I went when I was- if I had a gone when I was younger, I think I went when I was 30. So by that time my knees were broken down from all the running we always did. So I went two weeks, but then I had to pass out because my knees were just too much pain. And they said, “Well, you shouldn't have been here anyway.” But they never screened me for that. But I said, I see other people doing it and I’m gonna try it too. [laughter] Brandon Rea: Yeah, “I think I’ll do that too!” Levi Sowers: That’s awesome. Brandon Rea: So, Elizabeth, tell us how when did you start noticing differences in your vision? Elizabeth Holmes: Well, you know, that's another thing- I never did. Brandon Rea: Hmm. Elizabeth Holmes: You know, it wasn't until I had one eye exam where they said, you know, “you have glaucoma.” And I'm like, “What's that?” You know, they explained it to you and I'm like, okay. But it just never dawned on me. I just thought, you know, things are a little bit different. Levi Sowers: Mm hmm. Elizabeth Holmes: So I went to one doctor and, uh, think he left eye. He did surgery on that one, and it sort of got I want to say it screwed up. So then I got sent to more…specialist doctors, and they tried to save the right eye, which they did with the surgeries and needles. You know, my daughter said, “How can you sit there with all those needles in you?” Hey, they numb you up - you don’t feel anything! If it's going to help me. Go ahead. Stab me with a needle. But I didn't know it was gonna be six! [laughter] Elizabeth Holmes: Anyway, after all of that, I went to the VA. The doctor. I was seen at Emory. He says I go to the VA in Decatur on Wednesdays instead of you coming here, why don't you just go and be on the V.A. care? So that's what I did. And I have a real great doctor there. Her name is Dr. Lori- no, no…Lori. Yeah, she just got married, and, um, she referred me to their VIST coordinator. I think you guys know what the VIST coordinator is right? Levi Sowers: Yeah. We've been learning this- Elizabeth Holmes: So, anyway, you know, my daughter is with me. Excuse me. And we're sitting there, and it still doesn't make any sense to me. I'm just going to keep going and, you know, just- and we're sitting there and she says, you know, the one that really struck me is when she says, “You can't drive anymore.” “Excuse me?” She says, “No, you can't drive.” And then I thought back about a time that I had my granddaughter with me and we went shopping and I almost hit some lady and the bad part about it was that was my friend's wife. I didn’t see her on the left and that- and I parked the car and I said, “That's it. I'm not driving anymore.” So I just- we went shopping and I went home and I hung up the keys and I says, you know, I didn't. That's when it affected me, when I knew I could not drive and it got me. She says, Well, you know, we have the blind rehabilitation centers and we had the BVA. Well, no, she didn’t tell me about the BVA, she set me up to go to Blind Rehab in Birmingham. And there I met a gentleman, whose name was Jerry, who kept insisting that I joined and I don’t wanna join something that I didn’t know anything about. And, you know, that's the only time, you know, you hear anything about the Blinded Veterans Association is because when it affects you. Because other than that, you hear about the DAV…what do they call the other places? DAV and VFW? Brandon Rea: Yeah. Elizabeth Holmes: But you don't hear anything about the BVA until you actually need it. Levi Sowers: Mhm. Elizabeth Holmes: That’s when you find out. And while I was in Birmingham this is like you know, you need to join, you need to join us. No, I don't want to. And it took me about, oh, four months and every time we talk it is, you know, it's, it's hard to say to me this wanted to say this but we, we were- we got really close friends. We made friends that we would- after he left, he would call me and I would call him to see how he was doing. And he's- the first thing out his mouth was, “Have you joined yet?” “Oh, God.” [laughter] Elizabeth Holmes: I said, “No, I haven't.” “Well, when are you going to do it?” All right. So I finally joined. I don’t know if it was in January or April but I finally joined, and I've been happy with them ever since. And went to my first meeting. And there wasn't too many women there. And, you know, when you finally meet somebody, they come, you know, you want to introduce yourself too. So people, the first thing they ask you, “Where's your husband?” “What do I need him for?” “Well, he's the veteran.” I said, “Excuse me. No.” [laughter] Brandon Rea: Wow. Elizabeth Holmes: So anyway, that's how I joined. And I says, Well, I got to get more active in this thing if I want to know what's going on. So I did in there. Yeah. I joined the chapter down here in Columbus and no, and then I became the chapter secretary and I became the regional secretary and now I'm the chapter president and the national secretary. So I keep myself involved in a lot of things with the BVA. Levi Sowers: Yeah, that’s excellent. Elizabeth Holmes: And how they glaucoma affected me? Well, let me just say, it's still hard for me to picture it because I have sight in my right eye and with no depth perception, the deficit in my right eye is just like tunnel vision. But I still bump into things. And, last week, I don't know how I did it. I hit the refrigerator door handles from the freezer. I went to get in to far and I can't judge it, you know. And then, when I was in the bathroom, I hit the vanity because I couldn't judge. It was white. I couldn't judge the difference- the distance between where I was and what I dropped. So there went another bump on my head. Levi Sowers: But so- so like when when you started or when you first were told that you had glaucoma. Elizabeth Holmes: Uh huh. Levi Sowers: What, what were you like? What was going through your head? Like, Well, what is that? That's the first thing probably that a lot of people try to do is what is glaucoma? What do I have? What were your thoughts about that? Elizabeth Holmes: Well, I have it and I better adjust in that. You know, I'm not going to let it hold me back and I fought for, you know, transportation here in the city because they would they would- they say they don’t come to my area and- BS, you know? You pass right by my house to pick up somebody on the other side. So why can't you stop, you know, pick me up. Levi Sowers: Yeah. Elizabeth Holmes: Well, now that I have that, I mean, the guys, the guys in the chapter would say, “You're never home.” I said, “You're right!” As long as I- because that's what I wanted when I retired from the post office, even though it was earlier than what I wanted to, I wanted to do a lot of traveling. Pick up my granddaughter, take her here, there and everywhere. But that was told to us that- Hello, doggie! Brandon Rea: That’s my little corgi walking around, his nails are pretty loud. I picked him up so he’d be a little quieter. [laughter] Elizabeth Holmes: Well, my cats underneath the printer are sleeping on it. Brandon Rea: If I could get my little guy just to lay still for 5 minutes, that'd be great. Levi Sowers: Yeah. We also have two German shepherds laying here too. Elizabeth Holmes: Yeah, but I don't - I don't let it keep me down. I mean, there's not a- I rely on my son a lot. My daughter and friends. But there's, it's something that happened and I remember the day that I actually lost sight in my left eye because from my room I could see we had a lot of trees in the in the backyard. And every day I saw less and less of the tree. And all of a sudden it was dark. That's, you know, So I was like, okay, now I'm going to, you know, treat my right eye the way I'm supposed to take my drops, takes whatever they say to do. That's what I'm going to do because I don't understand. I mean, some of these guys are blind. You know, it took me a long time how to how to eat, because I always, always feel so bad. And there's a guy named William Miles, and my son would always say, I'm going to put you in Miles and learn how to eat there, make it eat with a fork, and that man would not drop a thing. So I just watched him and I said, Miles, show me some pointers. And he did this. Not saying I'm perfect. No, but I. Levi Sowers: Honestly, I spill on myself all of the time. Brandon Rea: Yeah! [laughter] Elizabeth Holmes:Time I said give me a bigger plate. Especially if they give you a small place. Like when you go to a restaurant, they give you a small bowl with the salad. I said, No, wait, just give me a large plate because otherwise it'll be all over. Brandon Rea: But you know, so when you, you know, glaucoma is what did you know about it when you started to when you were told that you had it? Like what was your understanding of it? Elizabeth Holmes: I didn't know anything. You know, I'm learning every day when I see, you know, sometimes I don't like. So I'm not a computer person, savvy, you know, see something. If they put something out, it would be a put something out. I look at it and I'm like, Oh, okay. But other than that, I don't. I'm not going to want to go into a seeing why or how- I know what I am. I know what I can see, that's good enough for me. I don't want that to happen in the future because that's the future and there's nothing I can do that's going to prevent it. So I'm living the way it is that I can see now. Levi Sowers: Yeah. Brandon Rea: And it sounds like you had a pretty good support group between the family and BVA. Elizabeth Holmes: Oh, yes. Brandon Rea: That's sounds, awesome. Especially with the jingles from your friends saying, “Hey, did you join?” [laughter] Brandon Rea: Over and over again. Levi Sowers: So I think that's something that we picked up on the interviews we've been doing this season, how important it is for the Veterans who lose their sight over time to have a support group or people they can rely on for help. Right? Elizabeth Holmes: Right. And so when I first went to the BRC, as you know, with BRC, right, when they first knew I was going, I had talked to one of my friends. I says, Look, I don't know what I'm getting into. I don't know if I want to be around people, you know, or whatever people that are there. So we develop a plan and she says, “All you do is call me and I'll show up with my hoodie and we'll escape.” And I says, “Okay.” [laughter] Elizabeth Holmes: She was ready for me. She says, “I'll come.” No, it was like 2 hours away. She says, “I'll come get you.” But as I stayed there and I learned, Wow, these people, it's, you know, when the instructor is obliged to visit, you know, hey, there's a lot I can do because I can see it's not- you know, one eye is better than no eye. But it's not total. But I can work with what I have. And then you see stuff and you see these other guys that have no vision and they can do everything. You know, they can do the computer better than I can do. It. Levi Sowers: Yeah! Elizabeth Holmes: And it's just, I mean, it really was an awakening to me to say, wow, if they can do it, I can do it. Brandon Rea: Yeah. So was there, I guess, you know, from talking to you here, I've only known you for a grand total of 15 minutes, but it seemed like you were a bit hesitant to accept that you needed that. Or maybe you didn't need that. I'm not sure. But your hesitancy to go, Can you explain why you had that or what prevented you from just going into it? Elizabeth Holmes: Because I didn't know. I mean, you're in a hospital environment, for one thing, and who likes hospitals? You know? Brandon Rea: Yeah. Elizabeth Holmes: That's one. And then they- I didn't know when I was that. At one of my previous appointments in Atlanta, there was a gentleman there who was talking about the BRC and he said, “Well, they make you do this, they make you do that. And they could get on a bus blindfolded, you can see, and you gotta do it all by yourself and they don't tell you mind. That scared me. Brandon Rea: Yeah. Elizabeth Holmes: You know, I don't like that from Chicago and I don't like going on busses. Even when I could see if I didn't know it was going, you know, and here I am. They can't see and they're going to put me on a bus blindfolded. And he would just talking just negative about it. And I'm like, I don't know if I want to do that. And I talk to my friend. I says, I don't know if I want to do that. She says, Well, just go and see. But, you know, we'll have this plan. I says, Okay. I said, You sure you come again? She says, You know, we'll come get you in first two weeks. And I said, You still need to come get me. Sure. And I'm like, okay, give me another week. Then after that. Brandon Rea: Now, did you call her out on whether or not she actually had the hoodie? Elizabeth Holmes: Yeah, I called her and I says, You don't have to come. I'll be home soon. So I. Levi Sowers: You know, one thing I think that is important about these interviews is it gives people, you know, if a veteran was getting on and listening to your episode about glaucoma, you know, what was the- this is a weird question. I think it's a difficult question to ask. What was the loss of vision like over time? Was it you know, you sort of mentioned losing a little bit of the tree every day. So it- was it like that? Was it very incremental over time with glaucoma or was it- did it kind of come and go? Or could you explain that a little bit. Elizabeth Holmes: Okay. The left eye, it just took a matter of within less than a week because, one day, I see this much of the tree, this much of the tree. Then I went to this much of the tree and then there was no tree. So it didn't take long on my left eye. But the peripheral vision just, you know, I, I just- I don’t even notice it until, like, if I can see Brandon, I don't see you and I have to click on you. And I see, when I see you, I see him. But if I see him, I don't see you, you know? Levi Sowers: Interesting. I see. Elizabeth Holmes: Yeah. Brandon Rea: Yeah. So it was different for both eyes or for each eye? Elizabeth Holmes: Yes. Levi Sowers: Oh! Elizabeth Holmes: So the peripheral vision, so I can see the dog. When I see the dog, I just see your arm. [laughter] Brandon Rea: Yeah. Yeah. Elizabeth Holmes: You’re out of the picture entirely. So like I said, it's, it's you know, a central vision, which is it's, you know, what it is now. I don't see too much on the top. That's where I always put my head. You know. You just bump. Into a garage door when it's coming down. You don't know it's coming down. BUMP! Levi Sowers: So- that's crazy. Yeah. So how did you come to be involved with the BVA? Elizabeth Holmes: Through Jerry. Levi Sowers: Jerry. Brandon Rea: Jerry and his “did you join?” Elizabeth Holmes: Yeah. He finally got me to join, and then he it was a I think it was in- it was a convention coming up in August. And he kept saying, “Go to it!” And I was like, “No..”. He says, “Go to it.” You know, I could even tell you in the first place I was that I don't remember it. But I said, “All right, I'll go, but I'm taking somebody with me.” He said, “That's fine.” You know, And I asked my sister because she was married to a blind man. So I figured, well, who else would know anything about what's going to happen? Who would be with her? So we went and, you know, so I had that. She says, “You know, this place is just so- it's just so- everybody knows what they're doing!” She says the group that she was with, her husband, she said, “Everybody's just doing whatever they want.” Ours is more structured. And I said, “You got to remember, we were military.” [laughter] Levi Sowers: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Elizabeth Holmes: And the other was they would- I don't know what they would do, you know. But so anyway, that's how it was, that's how I got involved was Jerry and you know, we met there and we had, it was so funny. We, we thought of a story. We told everybody that we met in Birmingham, which we did, and that we were married 20 years earlier and we divorced. And here we are - reunited. [laughter] Levi Sowers: That's fantastic. Brandon Rea: Well you gotta have fun with it. Levi Sowers: Yeah! Elizabeth Holmes: We had everybody believing us! [laughter] Brandon Rea: So you're a vet that's going through a similar experience and you don't have a Jerry calling you up with the intro of, “Hey, are you going to join? Are you going to join?” And and you're saying you had that hesitancy of, Oh, I'm going to go on because like you said, no one likes hospitals and how do you go about that? And we've been learning throughout the season how important it is for the veterans with vision loss like to become interconnected kind of not knowing that they're not alone. So how would you how would you tell a veteran like they get over that hurdle saying like, hey, it's okay to like, go out and ask for help or it's okay to find these people or how they would go about doing it? Like, what are your thoughts on that? Elizabeth Holmes: Well, you see, I would I don't even know how it happens, but I would be getting phone calls from people saying, uh, I got your number from this lady or from the West Jordan, eye care. And I'm like, “Okay?” “I'm a blinded veteran.” And I'm like, “Oh,” I said, “Well, okay.” And I says, “Well, you know, we have the Blinded Veterans Association if you care to join us. And well, you don't understand. And I said, Well, I may not understand you, but I know what you're going through because I, you know, even though I didn't feel bad about it, I said, But I'm in the same shoes you are so- and I said, there's other veterans here that there's my support. There's Cliff Jones, who I mean, he and I, when I first came, we started talking every day and he would say, don't worry about it. You know, if you need me, just call me. And then if I needed to know something about mobility or how to eat, I would call William. William Miles. So but there's a lot of us in there who, you know, just come and see. Well, see, see, you know, come and join us and you will not feel. You'll feel at home. You know, everybody's the same. And we can't criticize anybody because we're all in the same boat. You know, the vision is different, but everybody helps each other and if I was having a bad day or, you know, I would call Cliff, and if somebody else was having a bad day, they would call me. And, you know, so to have the group is very good. You know, we we understand each other. No one can talk about anything else because they have, like they say, walk in my shoes. Levi Sowers: Mm. Yeah. Elizabeth Holmes: So we, we can normally convince a person to join it and I'm glad I did and I'm sad to say it, you know, I had two good friends. Jerry was one of them. And Patty may, she had a little bit more eyesight than Jerry, but the reason why I didn't want to go back to the BRC is because they both passed. And every time I made a friend there, a year or two later they passed away and I'm like, I'm not going back there again. If I go back, I'm not going to make any friends, any friends. So I haven't been back since. But no, but it's good that, you know, COVID and stuff. But I'm ready to go back. You know, and just do what I got to do and learn some more, hopefully about computers and stuff, because I still- my son was in here with me this morning, I was like, “This is not working. What am I doing? What did I do wrong?” Well, you know, it was just something that, the internet - well, he told me it was something. “Okay, just fix it so I can do business.” [laughter] Levi Sowers: So you mentioned your granddaughter here. She seems to be pretty important to you. Can you talk a little bit about how vision loss affected your family as a whole? Elizabeth Holmes: Well, my granddaughter, she will she did a book. They had a science project. And unfortunately, she told me too late. Otherwise I would have given her a lot of stuff. But she did hers on glaucoma. Levi Sowers: Oh wow. Which is good. And I said if she would have told me ahead of time, they now live 2 hours away from me, but I would have definitely showed up and brought a lot of stuff that I had, you know, to show the kids. But she got third place or second place out of it. Levi Sowers: Cool. Elizabeth Holmes: She did it on stuff that I told her, you know, and that she looked up, but, you know, and when I visit her, she would you know, it's funny when you walk down the stairs, when they lived in the apartment, she would walk in front of me and say, step, step, step. Levi Sowers: That's awesome. Elizabeth Holmes: You know, the steps are steep and sometimes this far apart. And this one I put in, I said, you know, I can't tell the difference. And I'm already walking slow because I don't want to fall down the stairs. And so they step, step, step. So it worked, you know, and then we get to the street, she says, Curb, you know. And so, uh, yeah, she's a good kid and she helps me out sometimes. Brandon Rea: You have the dynamic worked out. Elizabeth Holmes: Sometimes she'll forget to tell me about the door, you know? [laughter] Brandon Rea: Do you ever give her some grief about that? Elizabeth Holmes: Yeah, I do. I said, What's wrong with you? You know, I can't tell the door. [laughter] Elizabeth Holmes: So I, you know, I said, you know, “You're going to go in first and you're going to hold the door until they come in.” “Oh, okay.” And the other day we went to a restaurant and some restaurants are dark. They sit there, feel in Atlanta that I do. And I said, “Can you show me where the bathroom is?” And she says, “Okay.” And then she takes off. I'm like, “Wait a minute, I don't go to this. It's dark in here.” And my son, “You know that, you know, she can't see this.” So used to me being, you know, doing what I always do, but then all of a sudden I can't. This dark in here, you kids, I can tell with the chairs of it and, you know. Oh, okay. So she walks right in front of me. And I had a friend, Shirley, when we- when I first retired. She would take me, we'd go out shopping and she says, Liz, “How do I know what you can see and which you can't see. You look like you can see.” And I says, “Okay” They had these pie charts for me with the charts that has all the diseases. And I said, this circle, let's look at it. She goes, “I understand now.” And that's the whole thing is getting people to understand what you can and what you cannot see. Levi Sowers: Yeah, yeah. Elizabeth Holmes: So she goes, okay, I said, Because here you are driving, I don't see you. I know you're there, but I can't see you. So she goes, Okay, I understand. I see the card and I know what you can see. Which level is. I see. But I don't. When we go grocery shopping, you don't need to be with me. If I hit something, I hit something, you know? I mean. BAM, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? I can't see. But -so my son, he always go to the grocery store and walks right behind me. I said, “You can just go.” He says, “No, because you never know when somebody's going to come up out from an aisle”. And I feel my shirt being pulled, yanked, back. I said, “Well-” Brandon Rea: You touched on the good things, like, not only is it like you getting used to vision loss or family getting used to vision loss with you having that or having a family member, but even communicating what it's like because- to people who don't have it. So that was pretty good. And I like how you have sneakily taught your granddaughter manners. That's hilarious. [laughter] Levi Sowers: Yeah, that's perfect. Oh, so, you know, one other question about glaucoma that I think I want to ask is glaucoma is a disease of high pressure. High pressure raises in the eye, and there's multiple causes to that. But it can kill off your retinal ganglion cells over time. And that's what creates vision. And so, you know, when you think of there being pressure changes in the eye, too much pressure, is there pain associated with that? Elizabeth Holmes: Um, you know, I never felt any pain. I mean, because I went from when I first started going, I first a pressure test. I remember it was- I was 32 and down to an eight and I've been eight steadily for the past two years. Levi Sowers: Wow, that's really impressive. Elizabeth Holmes: Yeah. And I think there was that to do with some of the injections I've had. It had- they had it, we call it a stent put in my eye. Levi Sowers: Yeah, Yeah. Elizabeth Holmes: I got on both eyes but that happened. And then with the eyedrops you, you know, I remember when the first doctor ever said, if we take this surgery, you don't have to take eye drops every day. I said, What's so hard about taking eyedrops every day? I mean, it's a pain, but I mean, he’s the one who screwed me up. So he's trying to do what he wanted to do with it but- and so I'm happy now. I mean, I'm living with it and I'm adjusting so and people, you know, people say, well you do got glasses. This is yeah, do it like eye protection for me, because even the one on the left is just plain glass or plastic. You know. And the only I think the hardest part for me to do is where I put them, because I forget where I put them. So now I, you know, when you in the service, they always give you these ugly black glasses. Which they changed. And so now my son is getting bright ones. It doesn't matter if I put them down now, I forget where I put them. Levi Sowers: I have that same problem and I can see just fine. I can't find my keys or my head most mornings. Elizabeth Holmes: He says, “I just think you’re old” and I say, “You will be to.” [laughs] Levi Sowers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what do you- as we wrap up the interview here, is there anything important that you want to talk about? Brandon Rea: Yeah, anything you want to share? Elizabeth Holmes: The only thing I would say is that, you know, when my son and I are out and he'll notice it first, you'll see it's a person with the cane the way cane. Because, I mean, he has two eyes and he'll go up and this is, you know, and he'll ask him, are you a veteran? He'll bring that person over to me and I usually carry business cards. Vendors. And what the BVA is and I give him my number out. [coughs] Elizabeth Holmes: Wow, water didn't work. So anyway it's just that if a veteran or any blind person, because I belong to the National Federation of the Blind, if any person is having any issues with their eyesight, they should get in contact with someone. Don't just live it, you know, because you cannot get life. There's a lot going on. You know, you can continue doing and it may not be the same, but at least you're doing something instead of just being in the house or wherever you're at. So I would like to say get involved at organizations, at the VA or, you know, it just spread the word that we're here. We know what to do. You know, we know what you're going through because we all been through it. Levi Sowers: I think that's a really good message. You know, that's another thing that we've noticed going through this process and interviewing multiple veterans with Vision loss is like learning that there is so much left to do or that you can do when you lose vision or have low vision. And I think that's a really important message to be had. Brandon Rea: Not only on the research side of trying to find better solutions for it, but on the outreach side, interconnecting everybody, like you said, know you're not alone and there's others going through it. Elizabeth Holmes: And my whole thing was- I was invited to do a turkey shoot. Well, I didn't want to shoot a turkey, but heck, am I going to shoot a turkey? I shot it. Elizabeth Holmes: My son ate it. [laughter] Levi Sowers: You didn’t even eat your own turkey? Brandon Rea: You didn’t even get any of it? Elizabeth Holmes: I couldn't eat something I shot, you know? Brandon Rea: Well, that's fair. Elizabeth Holmes: I even have the video. We're shooting the turkey. And the two guys that were my spotters, they were. They were like, “She actually did it!” [laughter] Brandon Rea: I hope they gave a smirk after that. Elizabeth Holmes: “Mom did it.” And I believe it was like, Hey, there was a turkey, someone had to shoot it. But like I said, my son ate it. I didn't, but. Levi Sowers: Wild turkey is delicious. I have hunted wild turkey a little bit and I have friends who hunt turkey quite a bit. I really like it. You know, you have an incredible amount of determination and it's really nice to see. And you're going to a wonderful interview. And as we wrap up here, I want to ask you a couple of fun questions and I ask everyone to sort of become my shtick at the end of this podcast. Yeah, you're probably a really busy human. I mean, you're the national secretary for the BVA and you what do you do for fun? Elizabeth Holmes: Isn’t this fun? Levi Sowers: No, no cop-outs. What do you like about what do you go for? Not work. Yeah. Brandon Rea: Non-work fun. Elizabeth Holmes: Watch old movies. You heard of MeTV? Brandon Rea: Yeah. Elizabeth Holmes: Okay. I watch those. I like to watch TV. The mystery movies, you know, look at, like, Matlock, Diagnosis Murder. Levi Sowers: Yeah, I love that stuff! Elizabeth Holmes: The Waltons. I even watch that, you know, I just- or I go to the Y. Joined the Silversneakers and I go to water aerobics. Levi Sowers: Very nice. [dogs barking] Levi Sowers: My daughter just got home from school. Just give me one second. While my dogs calm down. The joy of doing interviews from your house, right? Elizabeth Holmes: Yes. Levi Sowers: One second. Okay. I think they calm down enough. Yeah. Let's just say there's no sneaking in the house. Elizabeth Holmes: Yeah, that's a good thing, you know? Brandon Rea: Oh, yeah. Elizabeth Holmes: Because if somebody tries to sneak in here, I know where the shotguns at and if you hear that cha-ching, ya know? [laughter] Brandon Rea: Put it up next to the picture of you getting the turkey. I guess if you had a picture of the video. Elizabeth Holmes: Yes. I can shoot a turkey in the neck. I can certainly shoot a person. [laughter] Elizabeth Holmes: Yeah. Levi Sowers: That's a first. That is a first on our podcast. This is wonderful. Elizabeth Holmes: I did it with the- believe it or not, I have a weapons permit. So yeah, my son and I go out shooting, you know, and he didn't like it when I did a better job than he did. [laughter] Brandon Rea: But you just tell him to go eat turkey! [laughter] Levi Sowers: Well, hey, I want to thank you so much for coming on and we look forward to chatting more in the future. Okay? Elizabeth Holmes: Okay. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Announcer: This concludes today's Vets First Podcast. For questions or comments relating to the program, please direct email correspondence to vetsfirstpodcast@gmail.com. Thanks for listening!