Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this edition is Dick Nelms. He's a US Army Air Corps veteran of World War II, where he flew B seventeen bombers for thirty five missions. And mister Nelms, thank you so much for being with us. You're welcome. Where were you born and raised? Sir? I was born in Cleveland, Ohio, raised in Niagara Falls, New York. You were born just a few years before the start of the Great Depression. What was the impact of the Depression on
your family? Pretty severe? But I never wanted food. Everything was supplied. They sacrificed for our brother and me whether it worked out very well? Did you do you have an interest in flying when you were young, Yes, very much. How did that start? Well? I was born just five years after World War One was over, and at that time Curtis Jenny and the French Spad were the planes that I was interested in, And at a young age a plane would fly over and we'd run outside. Airplane airplane.
It wasn't like today, of course. How did you hear about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor over the radio? And newspapers. What was your reaction at the time, pretty much like everyone else's would probably take care of those grass huts in a couple of weeks. And were you drafted or did you enlist? I enlisted? And why did you choose the Air Corps so you could fly? Yes? Where did you go for training and then flight school? I went to Actual Field, Alabama for a pre flight, then
started my training in Avon Park, Florida flying the Steerman biplane. That was not only the first time I've ever been inside of an aeroplane, but first time I went up in an airplane. So it was quite a thrill. And did it meet the anticipation? Is it what you hoped it would be? Yes? Even more so, what did you love about it? Even today? It was the same thing. You advance, you feel yourself being pushed back in the cocklit a little bit the speed, and then you clear
it earth. You're in a different dimension and that's a real thrill. That's awesome. I love that. Was there anything that was particularly difficult for you in flight training? Acrobatics that they called them, now it's aerobatics. I could do them, but I had h a little What what brings on dizziness. I can't remember verdigo, yes, ah, and uh it it would uh stop me from doing too much. That's what put me in the four
engine bombers. That that they were afraid that I'd get vertigo flying up a fighter and I might have, I don't know, but here I am alive, so I'm not gonna squawk. So you were okay with being assigned as a bomber pilot? Uh? Not at first? Not at first, you know, it wasn't because it really wasn't what I wanted. I didn't wanna go beyond twent twin engine. But after a few missions you realize not only the importance of what you were doing, but the B seventeen wasn't all that
difficult to fly. What is the key to flying a plane that big? Well? Uh? In advanced training, we we went twin engine in a beach and uh, and going into four engine wasn't really a big deal it you know it. It's it like my primary instructor said, you're gonna fly all kinds of different equipment, but remember they're all stick and rudder. They
will all respond the same way that you put into it. And uh, and the B seventeen really was an easy airplane to fly, but very uh responsive and uh a huge wing area that would uh make high altitude bombing very precise. It w it was uh what it'd called a stable bomb platform. So how much training did you do? But before you were sent to Europe? I think I had about two hundred and twenty five missions of hours.
Didn't keep two track h t uh too close track of it at the time, but we we uh got a ten man crew in practice in North Texas, in in bombing at night and so forth. And uh when when we were ready, we flew over the North Sea at the Atlantic, not the North Sea, and landed in nuts Corner, Ireland. Did you do more training over there before you flew your first mission? Well, you could call it training. It was more of of just getting used to what's gonna happen
and flying a practice mission. Uh. I think we flew two of them. Just orientation was what I'm trying to say. So you were a co pilot at first, right, yes, tell me about the rest of your crew. Well, we had had the pilot or less seat, and I was in the right seat, and uh had a bombardier and navigator in the nose. The top turret gunner was directly behind the pilots had two fifty caliber machine guns. Then as you go on down the airplane, you passed the
bombay and you have a little radio room with a radio operator. Then further down in the waist you have a gunner on each side called the left and right wasted gunners, and a tail gunner applying backwards on a bicycle seat. Oh, I forgot the ball turret underneath. Yeah. Tell me what went into each mission. How did you prepare for the mission before you even took
off, and what was the takeoff and formation process like? Well, when when we became operational, we'd be asleep in a quancert hut and the d door would fly open, sometimes three in the morning. The light would come on and the c que the charge of quarters, would be standing there shouting at us, up and at him. Fly boys, rise and shine off your back and out of the sack, you know, and let's go. Let's go up, up up. Interesting story connected to that. Our bambadier
got tired of it one day and threw his shoe at him. It went skinting across the floor. He wasn't trying to hit him, but when he walked out, he says, I hope your accuracy improved somewhat later today. I think that was the only time we left getting ready for combat. So when did you get your briefing? Uh? After we had uh breakfast, we'd eat all we could, cause it could be ten or eleven hours before we'd eat again. People would say, why take a lunch up there?
Yeah, y twenty five thousand feet it's forty five and fifty blows zero. Your lunch is not gonna be edible very long. But uh uh after Yeah, after breakfast, we'd go to the briefing room and uh all sit and wait for the commanding officer to come out. It'll all jump to attention, and he would announce where we were going, generally why we were going there. They'd bring a uh a kind of a blackboard out and they'd have a map with uh a ribbon tied from our base to the target. If it
was Berlin. Everybody would go, oh no, but uh yeah, and then then uh they'd also tell us what kind of bonds we were carrying, the weather report, and uh the position each one of us would be flying in an eighteen aircraft formation. So when that was taken care of, we'd go out and get on trucks and then drop us off at our airplanes that
were dispersed around the perimeter of the field. Get aboard, go through a pre fight cockpit check, start up the engines, check them, give the ground crew the signal to pull the chocks out in front of the wheels and release the brakes, and go out and stand in line. Wait, wait for the takeoff time. Now, once you took off, there are so many bombers on many of these days taking off. How crowded were the skies
and how complicated was it to get into your formation. Well, if the airfields around us, the groups around us did it the correct thing, it would be. You know, crowding would have different times. Just ten it's apart, would make a big difference. Our group leader would be poised ready to go, get a signal from the tower. He'd do his takeoff run and we'd follow about every fifteen seconds, and he he would have a have a course around the field up above, not get off into the air space
of another airfield. We were crowd only five miles apart. You have different groups and uh h h uh. We we would join in the position where we uh designated to be, and when that happened, climbing all the while at at the amazing five hundred feet a minute, we'd uh get into eighteen aircraft formation in three six aircrafts squadrons, be the lead squadron, a high squadron and the low squadron eighteen and head out over the North Sea at a
designated time on the way to our target. How long did it take you to get information? You know, I can only guess maybe in between fifteen minutes and a half hour somewhere it would take some time. That's Dick Nelms, a US Army Air Corps veteran of World War II. He flew thirty five missions as a B seventeen pilot and co pilot. Still to come in this edition, mister Nelms will tell us about his most harrowing missions in the
face of German anti aircraft fire. Andy explains how he and other bombers saved thousands of American lives in Normandy. But up next, Nelms continues his explanation of what went into his bombing missions. I'm Greg Corumbus and this is Veterans' chronicles sixty seconds of service This sixty seconds of Service is presented by T Mobile.
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You can find Prevagen in the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. Sixty seconds of Service This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbas our guest in this edition is Dick Nelms. He is a US Army Air Corps veteran of World War Two, during which he piloted or co pilot did thirty five missions aboard a B seventeen bomber. We now continue Nelm's explanation of what a bombing mission involved with
a focus on the brutally cold temperatures on board. Well, when you get up to twenty five thousand feet or above, it would always be forty five to fifty below zero inside the airplane. You dealt with it by the two pilots had a heater pulling hot air on us, and I would dress with a leather jacket and wool pants and sheepskin boots and warm gloves, and that was it. I didn't want that heater to go out, but carry a
whole set of sheepskin clothes in case that happened. The rest of the crew had electrical heated suits, just like an electric blanket, and they'd plug it
in their spot. Have a risstat never heard any complaining as your information, and approaching a target, what would be the procedure, Well, the lead aircraft in in the U lead group, lead squadron would be on autopilot all that time, and as he turned, we would get to the initial point the ip and he would turn for the first time towards the target, and
from there to the target would be the bomb run. He would switch the vertical control of the aircraft over to the northern bomb site that his bombadeer would be using. So the vombiteder has a vertical and horizontal cross here. Now, if he changes the vertical hair see here the target, he drifts to the left the targets here. So as he pulls it back, the aircraft
will automatically follow and pick up the corrected heading. Uh. The horizontal, of course, is is the speed across the ground after the bombs were dropped. I assume you resumed control of the plane. Correct, Well, I'll I'll go ahead and I'll finish explaining that maybe the lead vombadier is a good vombadeer. They don't fool around with that, and he puts in information into
that northern bomb site almost like a computer. Uh. Our altitude, h estimated ground speed, the type of bombs we were carrying, everything that would have an effect on the accuracy of those bombs when they hit the ground, and when at the right time comes out come his bombs. He shouts, bombs away. There K have colored ribbons on'em. All of the other bombeders have their thumb on a toggle switch, and when they see that and
the hair bombs away, they sheve that forward. And uh people say, well, you have thought all the vombaeders would would be siding on the target. Well, think the the targets here. You you got a squadron of six airplanes. They're all t siding on the target. When they get to the target, they're all gonna run together and crash if they're accurate. And uh so the l this have the lead bombaders. It would do it if if we were bombing a uh A factory or uh A s apparently enclosed situation.
You've got if we're carrying a five hundred pounds general purpose bombs, which generally we did, you got two hundred and sixteen bombs all going down at once on a selbo and it doesn't take a lot to wipe out a target.
A lot of them they're gonna miss because we gotta be careful not to slide underneath each other and have the bombs come down through, you know, up on the higher squadron so we have to spread out a little bit, and there there's gonna be f what they call collateral damage on the outside.
You can't help that. But uh yeah, and if it's a uh a oil refinery or marshaling yards, railroad yards, maybe a maybe an airfield that they've d Nazis have taken over, we'd we'd do it a a a train bomb where you're probably seen uh coming out like that about every half second one comes out and so they hit the ground like that and just try to destroy a U a larger area. How would you describe the am out of any aircraft fire and enemy fighters that you had to deal with. Well, we
only had about three fighter attacks. That was quite different than the first Eighth Air Force guys that got over there. I I really don't know the reason exactly, but uh, we were getting more, more and more bombers and they they just couldn't attack all all of our groups. They didn't have enough fighters. And then we got our fighters over there P. Fifty one and a P forty seven, and uh they engaged the Luftwaffe as well as escort
Us. But uh uh General Doolittle, the story I got when he came over he said, the escort is not working too well because we're going deeper into Germany and your fighters cannot carry that enough enough fuel. They have to let go and go home. Let's do this. Let's take your P forty seven with US eight fifty caliber machine guns firing armor piercing and sundiary bullets, and the P fifty one with six machine guns and strafe those airfields. Shoot
those planes up before they come up. It's such a simple thing. It worked, didn't have any more fighter attacks. That's Dick Nelms, a US Army Air Corps veteran of World War II. He flew thirty five missions as a B seventeen bomber pilot and co pilot. Still to come, we'll hear how Nelms help to save the lives of thousands of American forces in Normandy. But in a moment, we'll hear a bit more about how bombing missions unfolded, some of his most harrowing missions, and how Nelms dealt with fear.
I'm Greg Corumbus, and this Veterans Chronicles. This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this edition is Dick Nelms, a US Army Air Corps veteran of World War Two, he piloted or co piloted thirty five missions aboard of B seventeen bomber. In just a moment, you'll hear about some of Nelm's most harrowing missions and how he dealt with fear. But first he explains how much fuel was required for one B seventeen bomber for each mission.
Well, we started out with thirty six hundred gallons of chaos one hundred octane on a average mission, maybe ten hour mission if it's just going to France and back. They don't put that much in the airplane, but you got fourteen hundred in each wing and then another eight hundred into the Bombay, okay, So the fighters ended up with auxiliary UH tanks. Some of them had one on each wing that would increase their range. But it never never did work too well. I think our our b someone said, uh that
our our bombers out out uh grew the fighters. They so many of the bombers came that the fighters did not have enough to escort all the bombers. So they'd kind of flip a coin. Who were going with today? You know that's uh, that's not true, of course, what yeah, and ended up where we didn't need'em too much. After D Day, their ground forces and tanks that they were being pushed back into in through France and towards Germany, and they were taking the guns with them. So actually our
targets became more difficult with more handier fire. Usually it was eighty eight and a hundred and five millimeters c cannon shells s. Berlin had added that with a hundred and twenty eight, and uh Berlin was a bad target. They here again, they c claimed that Berlin had two thousand the Berlin air area, the large area, two thousand antier craw comes and when when you get in there, you know that's h if you like everyone, they is shooting at you. So that's why in the briefing room you go, you got
the groans if you were going to Berlin. Yeah, okay, the the guy. They didn't mean it, you know, it was just but nobody wanted to die a and this this was getting kind of close to it. How did you deal with Flack? Well, the the deal would need not to be afraid of it. N there's nothing you can do about it when you're on a bomb run the bombardier is sighting on the target, and it's straightened level from then on. And the Nazis know this, and uh I if he tries to, people say, t I, can you take evasive
action where you don't know where those shells are gonna burst? The ones that are there have not bothered you. It's the ones that you haven't seen yet that the n y. You don't know where it's gonna happen. You might evasive action right into one of'em. So it's straightened level and the Nazis know this. They also know that the cannon shells will go up about a thousand feet a second, and the range finders establish our altitude, like say
twenty five thousand feet. They set their fuses to to explode at twenty five seconds. Then they figure, if we're here, where will we be in twenty five seconds. So they have that convergence and it come awfully close. Sometimes I have to say too close. Well, you had thirty five missions that were successful. Obviously some of them were a little more harrowing than others, including your fourth mission, in which you claimed to return with more than
three hundred holes in your B seventeen. Tell me about that I think we got into the jet stream. I'd say the lead aircraft. You know, we're following along like lemmings, so we just do what we're supposed to do, formation always, And it slowed us down because to keep us straight course you have to turn into the wind, so you're going like that, but it really slows you down. Our ground speed, which would be around two hundred miles an hour without any wind, probably reduced to about one hundred.
We were in flat for almost a half hour by all of those guns, and I knew we were k taking a lot of hits. It could hear it going through the airplane, coming through that aluminum skin. Not a good sound. And uh, when we got back now it's STI still flying in the right seat at the time, cause I was doing a lot of the flying. It's hard to exp I want to get into that, but it
was a pilot copilot situation. And uh, when when we landed and decided to kind count the holes, got tired of the county of three hundred holes, it could have been four because we didn't even get underneath. Nothing Vioble had been hit, none of the crew had been hurt. Just everything worked. You mentioned the sound. I don't know if it's possible to recreate the sound of those pieces hitting you. But how would you describe the sound?
Oh like, maybe you'd you'd take a hammer and hit us, uh fifty gallon tank, not real hard, but but that unrelenting boom, you know. And of course we had headsets on, but it didn't take much sound out. Yeah, hard rubber And that was the end of that plane's use in bombing runs. Right. Well, they uh, they they always patch the holes, but the aluminum patches stick out about the eighth of an inch
beyond the the skin of the plane. They had so many patches on it that it slowed the plane down, and uh, it was no longer operational. They could stay with the formation. If you added power, you're not gonna get home because you're gonna be burning more fuel. So they take all the armament out of it, make it light, paint a WW for war weary on a vertical stabilay so and use it as a taxi going through different error fields on business most of the time. And they don't want to throw
it away. Well, that plane, I understand, was called Rowdy Rebel two, and then your new plane was called Pandora's box. Who got to name the planes? Oh radio man he he he explained that it was Greek mythology where Zeus gave ten door a box with the evils of the world in there and told her not to open it. But this was the first knock
against a womanhood. She couldn't do it. She had to open it and it you know, it's a Greek table and uh, and that's that's we figured, we're we're the ten evils of the world inside that airplane, look out for us and potentially getting in trouble too. As Yeah, as the missions went on, did you fly missions in conjunction with D Day? Uh? No, I didn't. Our group did. I. I was on a pass in London. The group did, but they brought their bombs back
because there was such a lousy day. They had an undercast and w W the we didn't know how far our troops had advanced, if any, off the beaches. So we're you going to drop bombs? And uh it really wasn't the job for the heavy bombers at all. And uh, some of them dropped, but they I I don't think they they had any good conclusions. But no, I was house in London in the Cumberland Hotel on a on Paths and the chambermaid came in, grabbed my big toe and said,
it's a invasion day. It's invasion day. And I tell people today, if they want to wake somebody up in a hurry, grab their big toe and yell it's invasion day. You'd be surprised at the results. That'll get your attention. Sure, now, about halfway through your thirty five missions, you moved from copilot to pilot. Is that about right? That's pretty close. Yeah, what differences did you institute as the pilot if any? Well, there was a little problem. I was checked out as a pilot,
but where's my crew? I had to wait for a crew deform. My lieutenant colonel commanding officer said that he checked me out. He gave me two landings to make and he said, instead of saying you made it, he said, do you mind still flying in the right seat until I can get you your own crew? And I said, yes, sir, and it'll be okay. But uh, I had I don't wanna go into it. But but the uh first pilot who had gone through B seventeen training I never
had. I went cold cold hands right into the B seventeen. Nobody told me anything. He was supposed to help me, didn't say a word, didn't realize I was gonna have to do a lot of the flying, and I did. I did, uh as least as much as he did. Because he was a drinker. And even though the two clubs that down cown and me and the Officer's club would close if we knew a mission was gonna happen the next day, he had a way of getting it. And uh,
more than one mission. I flew the whole thing while he sobered up. And that that's difficult without any any relief. So when you became a pilot, the lead pilot, you got a new crew. How tough of an adjustment was it to leave the rest of that crew behind and work with these new guys. Well, it was interesting because the crew I left behind went home. Uh, they had done about thirty missions, some twenty nine.
Because the first pilot that I left, whether it was true or not, said his wife had trouble in childbirth and they let him go home. So instead of having me go into the Pandora's box situation, they figured they might not want to listen to me like they did him because I was a silver, a right seater going into the left seat. They didn't know all of that. They didn't know all the times I was flying the hole. But uh, you know, you know, tattle tale it. It just
couldn't it could. I just couldn't do it. But yeah, it it really wasn't difficult I I had. I was pretty good. I flew very good formation. I know you were good. Was was your crew new or had they been had some experience. I didn't get a chance to talk to him very much. I think they came off of crews that had either had been hurt or killed and they were there by themselves, which is more more likely what happened. And uh, but they were they were all good and
they were that didn't give you any trouble at all. I want to talk about one other specific mission that was rather intense. You had a close call while bombing a Messerschmidt factory outside of Leipzig. Tell me what you faced that day and how you dealt with it. Well. I had learned uh a trick on a han handle fear. Uh One time w we had a bo uh ah a shell burst no more than a hundred feet in front of us,
right a little above our level. And it it took us one second to get into that burst and my plane bounced flat came through the plane. My mind, my brain said, if that had gone off a second later, I'd be on my way down. This may be the day I don't go home. I forced myself to say, isn't it a great at went off? When it did, everything is okay. Now that's how I took
care of fear. I found a positive and uh uh. A chaplain stopped me once after a mission, he said, how did go I said, fine, we probably picked up a whole or two and and uh he said, I've been thinking about this. When you're up there. You have no control over where those shells are gonna burst up there, but you do have control of what's going on up here. And that was pretty good advice. I like that. What I would do is t to think, now,
this this mission is extremely important. We're we're giving a hitler more than he can handle. You gotta keep it up at at a little bit of courage. See, and it does doesn't matter what I do. Those shells are gonna burst. Why be afraid of'em? They can't do it surely doesn't do a thing but reduce your value up there. And uh, you know, if if if you get a hit on one of your engines and the catches on fire, the cop it has a button he can push in it.
Ninety percent of the time the extinguisher will put that fire out. But if it's a wing fire with gasoline in there, it's bailout, get out of there, because that wing is going to crumple and you're going to go into a spin and then you cannot. Then you're nailed to whatever position you're in and you're going to go down with it. Things like that. They expect that from the pilot. And if if the pilot's up there with white knuckles, scared of his own being, he's probably not going to have good
answers. He's going to have an answer that might be thinking how he's going to get out of the airport. That's Dick ne ELM's a US Army Air Corps veteran of World War Two, during which he flew b seventeen bombers. In just a moment, you'll hear Nelms claim to fame more than two decades after the war. But up next he'll give the details on that stress bombing run in Leipzig and much more. I'm Greg Corumbus, and this is Veterans
Chronicles. This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this edition is Dick Nelms, a US Army Air Corps veteran from World War II. He flew thirty five missions in B seventeen bombers. In this final segment, you'll hear about Dick nelms lasting legacy in Washington State and you'll explain how American bombers helped to save the lives of thousands of American forces in Normandy.
But now he takes us into that rough mission into Leipzig. We headed down the bomb run at Leipzig and a shell came up right underneath the first volley. Instead of seeing it out there starting the first all around, the first was right underneath the plane. The plane bounced into the air, very unexpected, very violent, and it scared me, and uh, I was trying to think of some way of getting rid of the f s, the the fear, and I couldn't. I had accept in about ten seconds, I
became ashamed of myself and that did it. And then I got angry at the Germans from making me go through that fure situation, and that helped here I am okay angry at him, and another shell burst out here a little higher than us. I think three holes came through the nose, and I lean, I said, you missed me, and I I knew it wasn't going to change the war, you know, But did you get tired of feeling like a wood duck in a carnival shooting gallery up there? You wanna
throw something at him? Then I I called the uh vall turret guner and and it it went like this pilot the ball over, wh okay art, Yeah, but can you be a little more careful up there? And then re our radio man also right where the exploded does i'mo take two in case you're interested. They're making jokes and we're getting shot at. But uh yeah, that was my life sick situation. It was a uh A, a tough mission on our uh on the eighth or fort I I think a lot
of planes were shot up pretty badly. What was it like knowing that you had completed your thirty five missions? Well, not as gratifying as you would think. You kind of hated to let go of the rings. You know, there there was a time where missions became s so repredictable that that you you weren't awfully s afraid of them anymore. It was almost a routine. It's hard to expY y y. Maybe maybe your courage had been built out. Uh, but we k we kept thinking about the importance of what we
were doing. Uh the Eighth I figured the Eighth Air Force changed hit was strategy from offense to defense, and and it it allowed our troops to more much more easily take over Germany. We didn't win the war, but we s saved a lot of American lives. I had uh one mission where I know I saved thousands of American lives. Tell me about that. Well, it was a wa uh in Saint loue On on the Brest Peninsula and the s near nor Normandy where our troops were being held down by a much larger,
more powerful German force. And uh they they said, the only thing we can think of is to get some bombers over there and bomb'em. And and I I went on uh uh two missions two days and other other bomber uh missions too, I understand. And uh we we dropped anti personnel bombs just a couple of miles ahead of our own troops, and it wiped out thousands of gerymanists. The the c commanding general was re reported saying, I have no more troops, no more guns, and no more tanks.
All is lost. It wasn't quite that bad. Uh, our our our force went through. They called them the saint little breakthrough and uh, but there was still resistance. It wasn't it. It wasn't a cakewalk. But we will we all felt we we saved a lot of American lives. One more time. Two days before June sixth d Day, we were sent up to Patti Calais in northern France to take out some large Boer coastal guns and
we did boond up there along the coast, came back. Another group went up the next day, did it and uh, we said, wonder why that's so important. We were making hip Er think that's where the invasion was going to happen. And it worked. He got a whole bunch of his h tons of divisions and guns and everything up there, and even when it happened in Normandy, he still didn't believe it. But as you know, Normandy k killed a lot of men up two thousand something. It could have
been as complete disaster if that hadn't happened. Yeah, the deception at the pod cost nobody had a good idea, and to be involved in that was it made me feel real good. Oh that was critical, Yeah, absolutely critical. In addition to dropping bombs towards the end of the war, you also had a chance to drop some relief supplies food and France tell us a little bit about that. Well. Uh, a tour of three officers showed
up after I finished my tour. I uh want well, I wanted us to stick around the field for a while, and so I would to get home for Christmas. And they said that's fine. I had duties to perform. But they had sk skegs loaded with sandbags and wanted to They had in the bombay of AB seventeen, one of them or two of them, and they wanted somebody to go out and fly it and see how it would work.
I was the one. And uh, I not only I, I only dropped them, but I dropped them at the speed I thought they should be dropped, and the altitude and and I remember it was five hundred tee and speed was was anywhere from eighty five to ninety miles an hour, which I pretty well hanging on the propellers. But you could you could fly at that s loose speed. And I wrote the specifications for and then I came
home before I found out any results. But they did it. They s, theyd S dropped supplies and food to the French freedom fighters, the the Maquis and uh UH I think in Scandinavia, Belgium f food. I they did some good. I mean, I was happy about that. That was one of the reasons that the UH, the f the French uh con Consulate gave me the Legion of Merit citation, the highest award they can give. Yeah, I was on the chevalier level, which is night on a knight.
You don't have to call me sir. Well, you have one other claim to fame, at least one other claim to fame I want to talk about, and that is that you became an accomplished artist and your work stands in perpetuity in the state of Washington as you design the state seal, which also appears on the state flag. Well, I'll go back just a moment after the war. If you had a lot of points. They get points for this to that being in combat. You had to decide whether you wanted
to realist in the regular army or be a suitian. And a general would interview one guy and me interview me. He said, what would you like to do now? I said, well, sir, would I still be flying? Oh, you'd be flying, probably be flying a pencil. In other words, they would want my experience and my intelligence to be behind a desk. They can get pilots like that. See And I said, well, y, I think you've hit it right on the no, sir, I always wanted to be an an artist. I and always draw, drew
a little bit, and I figured I could be better. I I wanna get out and go to art school. He said, well, that's probably a good decision for you, and good luck. And that's what I did.
And uh it it t it came about where uh the art Director's group of Seattle somehow felt that I could be uh selected, I should be selected to do the state seal of Washington where one of our people was on the art board of the state noticing that all the communication had a different seal on it and it just like a f facty you can't do that, you should have one. And and so I I went back in to eighteen eighty nine when when it the state became one, and figured that would be a good
point. Help do something that looked like it was done then and it would last. If I did something that was quite contemporary today, there'd be probably one or two more than had already been done, because mine would be out of style possibly. And so I found some uh, some good art work done back then and made a few changes in it, and uh further than the circle, the s the seal of the State of Washington eighteen eighty nine, and it was accepted by all of the l legislature except one man.
Incidentally, his name was Nate Washington. He claimed he was the descendant of George and it didn't look like him, is it he? Is it? That would make him? No? One way or you know? But uh, I always laugh at that. I can't help it. What are you most proud of from your service? I have to go back to World War Two and in the way I felt, I was proud to be part of destroying part of Hitler's war machine irreparable damage. And uh I did it. I did it well, and I did it right, and I got decorated
for it. I I think that's pretty special. Yeah, it's only one man's story, although I would think that all of the bomb groups had almost the same types of stories. They're all going on missions, all getting shot at, having holes put in their airplanes, and well, one thing I'd like to to add about danger. When when you're up there at twenty five thousand feet forty five or fifty plow zero, breathing pure oxygen, w on a mask, you're already in danger and it's part of the job. They
they call us heroes. I don't think n any of us felt that way. You know, a a winder watcher, washer in a in a uh skyscraper has some danger that goes with his job. They call him a hero. No, he's so why do it for us? Accept the fact I'm getting a shot out. Captain Nelms, Sir, it's been an honor to meet you today. Thank you for your time, and thank you most of
all for your tremendous service to our country. Well, thank you. We've been speaking with Dick Nelms, retired US Army captain, veteran of World War II, where he flew b seventeen bombers for thirty five missions. I'm Greg Corumbus, reporting for Veterans Chronicles. Hi, this is Greg Corumbus and thanks for listening to Veterans Chronicles, a presentation of the American Veterans Center. For more information, please visit American Veteranscenter dot org. You can also follow the
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