Welcome.
It is Verdict with Center, Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. It's nice to have you with us wherever you are around the country. And this is one of those just somber shows. Senator, you and I actually have not gotten to talk since the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk, a dear friend of both of ours. You've known him for over a decade, like I have. You've broken bread with Charlie. We have actually done Verdict live at Turning Point events
down in Florida. You've spoken at other Turning Point events as I have as well. I saw him not too long ago and we just talked about our kids. And I think about his kids, and I think about his wife and this tragedy, and it makes me so sad that this is where we are in this country, that there are people that believe that this is the way to do things. And I want to get your reaction to that as well.
Look this, I'm heartbroken. Charlie was a good friend. As you noted, I've known Charlie for over a decade. I met him when he was eighteen years old. He was a young kid. He was coming out of Chicago. He was just starting turning point. He had this vision. He had this vision for energizing young people, and he was as an eighteen year old, Charlie was impressive. You could see how smart he was, You could see how driven he was. You could see the clarity that a vision
that he had. He knew exactly what he wanted to do to energize young people, and it was something that when he first started talking about it, a lot of people disbelieved him. I got to say this week, this week was a really hard week. It was number one. It was the anniversary of nine to eleven, and that is a national tragedy that you and I both both
lived through and lost friends in nine to eleven. But then this out of nowhere watching first seeing the tweet of shots fired, and then Charlie Kirk shot, and then the fog of misinformation. I'll tell you, as soon as I saw just the tweet that he may have been shot, I pulled up my phone and texted him and I just just said, hey, man, are you are you okay? I'm praying for you right now. And I didn't know then if he was. It's hard to tell when the first tweet goes out, what the truth is and what
was not. I was obviously hoping maybe there'd been a shot fired, but it had missed him. It wasn't clear he had been hit at the time, so I was really hoping i'd get a text back, yeah I'm fine, I'm here. Obviously I did not get a response to that. You know, I talked to Charlie just a few weeks ago, and it's I got to say, what happened. It is evil, it is wrong. Just about everyone I know is really
shaken up by it. I will say. One of the worst parts when it happened pretty quickly, the video got out there on X of his being shot in the throat, and it was I'm sure you've seen the video, it's a graphic video and on X for me, it was on AutoPlay, so like I kept seeing the same thing over and over and over again, Like you couldn't look at X without seeing it auto play. I don't think in my life I've ever seen a friend of mine
be killed. And the afternoon had happened, I watched him shot and killed over and over and over again, and it's just screwed up. I mean, he was extraordinary and he leaves a big legacy and on verdict. Today, we're going to talk about that legacy. We're going to talk
about who Charlie Kirk was. We're going to talk about what he meant to me, to you, what he meant to millions across the country, and and and and what I gotta say, Ben, what the hell is wrong with this country that you have lunatics who say, I don't like what you're saying, I don't like your politics, and so I'm going to murder you. I mean this, this played out almost exactly like the attempted assassination of President Trump and Butler with with with a gunman with a
rifle on a roof. And and had President Trump had had his head been two inches to the side, he would have been killed that day. And and Charlie, was it it it it, it's it's beyond horrific.
Yeah, it is.
It is a moment that I I wish I could never remember. But you you, and you said it the best way. It was there you saw it. You watched one of your friends get gunned down, whole blooded murder, assassinated in this way. And it is something that, as you said, what is wrong in this country where we can't have a grand debate of grand ideas, and that is what Charlie's legacy was all about. A lot of people don't understand that we're going to go into that
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health benefits come alive in your dog. Roughcreens dot Com promo code Ben, and you're gonna get that free Jumpstart Trial bag as well, Senator, I want to go back to one of the things that I think people don't understand about Charlie Kirk, and maybe that if you didn't follow him well, his mission and goal was to bring people actually together. If you listen to media, they act like he was some extremist, fringed guy that was trying to break people apart, in pound people in these these debates.
He wanted people that disagreed with him to have a conversation with him, a grand conversation. And he started this years ago by himself, with one guy recording and him sitting at it at a card table at university campuses, and it turned into something where three thousand people, for example, showed up in Utah. It changed college campuses with turning point groups that were out there, and that is his legacy.
And part of I think what the big lie has been is that he somehow was this aggressive, in your face guy that is literally not his mission in life at all.
Yeah, a lot of folks in the media, a lot of Democrats, are trying to portray him as somehow extreme. Look, probably the thing that most characterized Charlie was his willingness and eagerness to engage in conversation with those who disagreed with them, and to engage using compassion, listening to them, understanding them, treating them with dignity, treating them with respect. That's something we need a whole lot more of. It's
something we try to do on verdict. But Charlie did it every single day.
Senator, you were mentioning that the media tried to turn him into something he wasn't. And this is a individual, a man that wanted to have a debate, and he wanted to fight for the hearts and minds of young people.
Yeah.
Look, Charlie was. He was brilliant. Uh, he was bold and courageous. It takes guts. It takes guts to go on to college campuses with with screaming leftists who would berate him, who would yell at him. That that takes real courage. Most people are assaulting to times.
By the way, people don't realize that he had things thrown on him, drinks, things thrown at him. He was assaulted countless times on college campuses, and he kept going back.
He was convinced that the mission was important. I still remember sitting in my friend's living room with that earnest eighteen year old when he talked about a vision that that you know, and this is thirteen years ago, where a lot of young people at the time, it wasn't cool to be conservative. You know, Barack Obama was president, he was hip, he was cool, and Charlie had a vision that that that that he wanted to make it
cool to love liberty. He wanted to make it cool to believe in the Constitution, to believe in the First Amendment. He wanted to make it cool to love your country and and and that was his vision was there from day one. A lot of people disbelieved him, but he also he he he approached it with with a with a winsome spirit. Charlie was always smiling. Yeah, he was thirty one years old when he was killed. He's he's a husband and a dad of two little kids and
his wife, Erica. His his kids are one and four and and his children will never know their dad. That they will know the legacy of their dad. They will know how it is extraordinary he was. That they will know that he touched and changed literally millions of people's lives. But but this deranged gunman in one instant made it that those children will never get to to have a conversation and know their father growing up. He leaves behind his widowed wife, and it's I will say, it is crushing,
I can tell you. So when we heard the news and we didn't know, we didn't know what his condition was, and early on Fox News was reporting that he's in the hospital. He's in critical condition, but he's in the hospital, so we were hoping he's all right. I called Heidi, so Heidi knows knew Charlie very well also, and I called her and she was just stunned. She was just sitting there staring in disbelief at the television. And actually the two of us called a dear friend of ours
named Ali, who's whose living room we met Charlie. And Ali is the one who introduced us to Charlie thirteen years ago. And Ali is a strong believer, a strong Christian, and I'll tell you, the three of us just on the phone just began praying for our friend, and we were in tears, and we were praying for him, and we were praying that God would save him and and
that that prayer did not come to pass. But we were all just just in shock and disbelieve but I want to say this also, when you look at all of Charlie's characteristics, one that was most extraordinary was he he was a deeply believing Christian. His faith was real, it mattered to him. And and he was a voice for the gospel and and and Charlie is is with Jesus in Heaven right now, and and and his his role of presenting the good news of the Gospel with
intelligence and joy, that was a powerful legacy. And I got to say, there are very very few people in particular who were doing that and and spreading the gospel to young people. You have pastors and churches, but Charlie's mission was reaching a whole lot of people who might never go to a church. And and and that's a legacy. That's a legacy. Actually, I want to play a clip of Charlie talking about how he wants to be remembered. Give a listen to Charlie when he's asked that question, you.
Want to be remembered?
If I die, everything just goes away.
How would you if you could be associated with one thing, how would you want to be remembered.
To be I want to be remembered for courage, for my faith, that would be the most important thing.
Most of you know.
There wasn't a time center on college campuses that he wasn't talking about as faith. In fact, I'll go back to the first time I ever had breakfast. Charlie asked me to have breakfast with him. We were at a Sea Pack event. It was about probably thirteen years ago, as I was doing the math and we sat down and he was like, hey, I know you've done a lot of college speaking. I feel like we've lost this generation. I feel like that the left owns them and they're
in doctoring them on our college campuses. I'm actually thinking about not going to college because of this mission, and I feel like what God put me on earth to do? And he said what do you think of that? And I looked at him and I smiled. I was like, Charlie, I don't know you, but you can always go back to college. You can go to college at fifty or sixty or seventy. What you're talking about doing is something that I think is more important right now than you
going to college. And he was such a faith forward person, even at eighteen years old, and it goes back to what you were talking about. He lived it and you knew what he believed in.
Yeah, he never did graduate from college, but he touched enormous number of college students and changed their lives. I want you to listen to Charlie on Bill Maher talking about his faith, because this is really powerful. Give a listen.
Is risen? He has risen. Indeed, Bill, why do we say that in the present tense?
Because it is a constant truth in our life.
He is risen. I always noticed that that that was interesting to me, that.
It was a really important question.
Actually it is.
Tell me, well, because the fact that he has risen transcends time. It's not just in the present sense, it's that of all time. That promise is accessible to all of us, and so it's a proclamation to all people. Because if you said that he was risen, it's like it's just merely a historical event. It almost underplays the metaphysics of it.
I'm just always fascinated the way, really really fine intellectual minds employed themselves for the purpose of arguing things that are so inarguable.
It's almost that's almost it's almost it does because it's it's almost like it it's almost like a challenge, like I'm so smart that I can make this thing which is so stupid it seems.
Like, but you get where I'm coming from.
I'm going to take something that is so anti intellectual, even though I can argue like an intel.
Ever, but you have to acknowledge even the greatest minds of history have been mesmerized by the scriptures. Isaac Newton, Thomas aquinas well. Isaac Newton wrote more about biblical prophecy than even physics. And so there's something about the scriptures that are intellectual that does push your limits. And that's what I think is so beautiful about our faith, as it can be accessible to everyone but also infinitely nourishing and exploration.
Charlie Kirk spraying the Gospel to Bill Maher, that's not something that many people can say, and he did it in such a kind and respectful manner, even as Bill Maher was almost mocking his belief in God.
Yeah look, look, I mean it wasn't almost Bill was mocking it. And you and I both know Bill Maher he is a brilliant man in his own right. But mar is not a Christian. He's an atheist, and he proudly proclaims that he's an atheist and he has deep skepticism of faith across the board. And Charlie went on his show and talked with him, and you're right, talked with him with passion, but also talked in a way
that was accessible. And actually the clip we just played, the way I found it right now is when I saw it online. I texted Charlie at the time and I texted that clip back at him and I just said, this was beautifully done, bravo, and it it and and that was just just another day with Charlie. That that's what he was doing. Every day. He was making people think.
But he was was also look the proposition that he was defending the phrase he has risen, And Bill Maher was saying, well, why is is in the present tense? And and and Charlie's message is because Jesus is in the prison present tense, because it is a fact today in our life. It didn't happen just two thousand years ago. He has risen today. And that message Charlie could deliver it.
There were people who were watching Bill Maher who again might ever go to church, might never hear the gospel, and yet that they would hear it from Charlie, and they'd hear it delivered in a way that that that that would make an impression. And and you know, the Bible talks about about planting seeds, and some seeds fall on rocky soil, and some seeds fall on on on shallow soil. But some seeds fall on good soil, and
they take purpose that they take root and grow. And and that's a parable Jesus tells uh uh and and and what what Charlie was doing there and what he did every day is planted seeds and and and many of those seeds landed on on fertile ground and took root. And and the number of people whose lives Charlie touched we will never know, but it is easily in the millions.
You know.
One of the things that he did that was I think incredible was be an advocate for families, for getting married, for having children. I want to get into that, being a dad, being a dad, for being a good dad, being a president, dad, being there for your kids. And we're going to talk about that in just a moment. I want to tell you real quick about our friends over at Patriot Mobile. I tell you now more than ever, I want align my dollars that I spend with companies
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the media is just not talked about. Charlie Kirk was a guy that was a massive advocate for getting married, being equally yoked, marrying the love of your life, having a family, being involved in that family, leading a family, a good husband, being a biblically leader in the household.
And he was.
He would say that to college kids, don't add garbage to your life, don't be out of here partying and acting a fool and doing stupid things like you can do things great things now at eighteen nineteen, twenty twenty one, you have to wait till you're forty to get it together. Don't add baggage to your life. And I love that that's part of his message.
Look, I want to read to you a text I got from a good friend of mine named Dan, and he sent me a text, and he said, I first met Charlie at your dear Valley retreat in October twenty fifteen. I was so impressed and taken by his vision of bringing conservative values to college campuses that I was an early funder and introduced him to many others who had
greater capacity than me. We stayed in touch. I mentored him until his knowledge exceeded my own, and I saw him reshape the political balance, particularly but not exclusively, with the under thirties. Looking back at his evangelism, his courage to go to the very heart of the evil that afflicts and brainwashes our youth and give those souls hope, I am wondering this morning if he may have been a saint, not in the sense he was perfect, as none of us are but because God moved through him,
and he was the vehicle God chose Jeremiah. Fore Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, before I formed you in the womb, I knew you before you were born. I sanctified you. I ordained you a profit to the nations. Then said I, Ah, Lord, God, behold, I cannot speak, for I am a youth. But the Lord said to me, do not say I am a youth. For you shall go to all to whom I send you, and whatever I command you, you shall speak. God bless our brother in Christ, Charlie, thank you for bringing me.
Into his orbit.
It's it's the sentiment that so many have had about him. I said last night on Fox News Channel about him. I said, his legacy is going to be one that is going to know no bounds. I am so thankful last time I saw him. We just talked to Mississ earlier about his kids and my kids. I've got three boys, you and I know we do that. And I laughed
because I was thinking about funny moments I've had with Charlie. Charlie, I get people give me a hard time a lot because I don't really drink alcohol and I got hit by a drunk driver who died and we lived, and it just had a major impact. Well neither did Charlie. And so we always when he was like twenty one, twenty two, getting a little older, when we saw each other parties, I would look at it like, you want
me to get your regular on ice? And he like yes, And that was our joke because we would drink our diet coke with a line together. And and I love that he was not ever given in to the pure pressure. He was gonna be authentic and who he was. I will say, I am so thankful that his children are going to have countless hours of video of him doing what he did. Yeah, because they're going to be able to go see what their dad, who their dad was.
There's so many kids that lose parents. They don't have videos like we have videos of Charlie where he was out there spreading the gospel. He was standing up for what he believed in. He was making a difference. And I said this last night on Fox, I said, I truly don't believe Donald Trump would have been elected if it wasn't for Charlie Kirk and turning point and what they did to get out the vote in swing states. I think that's why he was so emotional to night
that Donald Trump was reelected. I don't think we'd have control of the House in the Senate if it wasn't for Charlie Kirk and what he did get out the vote in swing states. It had a massive impact in this country. And that's the reason why the President announced his passing and lowered that flag to half mask, because I think Donald Trump.
Knows it too.
Yeah, it's a good question. When is the last time you can remember that somebody's death is announced by the sitting president of the United States. It was the President that let America know that Charlie had passed, and the President he put out on truth social quote, the great and even legendary Charlie Kirk is dead. No one understood or had the heart of the youth in the United States of America better than Charlie. He was loved and admired by all, especially me, and now he is no
longer with us. Milania and my sympathies go out to his beautiful wife, Erica and family. Charlie, we love you. Yeah, and that you're right. There's a very good argument that Donald Trump doesn't win, maybe not in twenty sixteen, maybe not in twenty twenty four without Charlie Kirk's incredible hard work. And I got to say, look, you and I have been to a lot of Turning Point conferences. I've probably spoken at a dozen of them. Yeah, this podcast has
been intertwined with Turning Point. We have done several verdicts from Turning Point, where virtually the entire podcast is US answering Q and A from the young people there. And I got to say, the atmosphere of a Turning Point conference, it's like a rock concert and you have strobe lights and fires, and you'll have thousands and thousands of young people, high school kids and college kids, and there's energy and you come out to these rock star promos and it was amazing.
And that was Charlie's vision center. I also want to talk about there is a question. I'm sure you've gotten it. I've gotten it too, and that is what's next. This is a moment where my nine year old asked me that I think the toughest question I've ever been asked by him. When I put into bed last night, he knew that daddy's friend had died, and he said, Daddy, is someone gonna shoot you for what you do? And I gave him the best answer I could. I said, buddy,
you know daddy carries a gun. You know Daddy shoots back. And he just started crying. And I think there are so many people right now that are worried about where we are in this divide and this feeling that the left is just wanting to take out anybody that is successful in articulating conservative or Christian views. I do worry about where we are as a country. I also think that you and I and so many others that do this, everybody that I've been texting and talking with, I don't
think any of us are going to back down. We maybe do things a little differently, we may take different precautions, but I don't think they're gonna silence any of us. I'm not backing down. This is my mission field. I think you feel the same way I do.
Absolutely, and listen. I think Charlie inspired many people to speak up and to be brave, to be courageous. I think more people will be inspired. I will say his assassination, it wasn't just a murder, it was an assassination. Yeah, he was taken out because of who he is and because of what he was saying, And he was taken out because of fear that what he was saying was
so persuasive that people wanted to hear it. Look, when he went to a college campus, he welcome leftists to come argue with him, to present their side of the story. But the power of the truth he was saying was what is dangerous. And look, I gotta say, I feel a little bit you and I were not not alive when when JFK was shot or Bobby Kennedy was shot, or Martin Luther King was shot. But I do kind of wonder if that's a little bit what this that
felt like? Just just I have to say, like seeing this happen, particularly the parallel to President Trump's being shot in Butler, that it was the same thing over and over again, and it was it was almost a successful assassination of the president, and tragically it was a successful assassination of Charlie. Like what is going on that there is this hate? And I got to say, by the way, we have seen leftists. We saw people on MSNBC cackling.
I saw an image on Twitter of this one soulless young woman dancing and singing that Charlie Kirk had been shot in the neck. I wanted to it made me physically sick, the the the the joy at at his being murdered. But rather than focus on that hate and we we could play those clips, but you don't need to hear those angry haters. I want to focus, actually on on on some people on the left that took a right message, and one of them was was sank Ungiar, who's I don't know him, but he's he's liberal.
Hardcore liberal. Yeah, he's the young he's guy.
Yeah.
And he put and and and he got it right, by the way.
So here's what he posted on x. He said a while ago, I put out these rules for the Internet. One when we disagree, we fight. Two we have a beer afterwards. Three when we agree, we unite. I got a lot of flacks, surprisingly for the line about the beer. People would ask, oh, yeah, would you have a beer with Charlie Kirk? Well I did, and I'm glad I
did because now I won't get to yes. Charlie and I disagreed a lot about really important things, but somehow we didn't lose our humanity, we were still fellow Americans. We can all choose to hate each other, now that's a normal human reaction. We can choose to blame each other and I'm sure we will endlessly. Or we can defy the voices of division in the country and have a beer together this time in grief. If you really want to strike back at whoever did this, listen to
each other. Instead of hating one another. They want us to hate each other. Treating one another as brothers and sisters, as a united America would be an historic act of defiance. Since I'm on the left, I'll go first for everyone on the right, and most especially the Kirk family. I am so sorry for your loss. I share your grief, and I want you to know that our hearts are with you. I appreciate Sank saying that I retweeted it
and just said bravo like that. I don't want to focus on the haters, on the anger, on the rage, on the evil bile that we see, because that was not Charlie's message. Charlie's message was one of love. It was one of liberty. It was one of the Constitution, it was one of the Gospel, it was one of hope it was one of faith. That's that's where we should focus. And I hope that that is a powerful, powerful legacy coming out of the thirty one short years that that Charlie had on this earth.
You know, one of the one of the conversations that I had was something that was older. They called me and they were like, hey, I'm just checking out you know your friends, And he said, you know, Ben, I'm older. He said, every generation has a leader that leads them. He said, you were lucky enough that you started with Ronald Reagan and then you got Rush Limbaugh. This next generation needed a leader like no one else, and they
got Charlie Kirk. Yeah, and and that is a I think to look at it that way and to talk in the sense of like who is really influenced? I look with that, Russimba, I don't think you would probably doing what you're doing right now. I certainly wouldn't be doing what I'm doing right now without the inspiration of Ronald Reagan. I wouldn't have even known what politics was and and to and to fall in love with it the way that you have fallen in love with that
I have. It's our mission field, I say, that, and I mean it. I feel like God put me on earth to do what I'm doing right now. I have no doubt God put you on our center to do what you're doing right now, and God put Charlie Kirk on this earth to do what he's doing. But I do think he is a once in a generational leader. That that is that his legacy may change this country, uh in ways that none of us could imagine. And how many warriors for Christ, how many warriors for conservative
values and principles. And I think how many young people on college campuses that witnessed a real life assassination in an HD may be inspired to say, I'm Charlie Kirk.
Amen.
Amen, Amen. I want to close the show today by listening to Bobby Kennedy. Right, Martin Luther King Jr. Was shot and the message of unity that he had is one that I hope and pray we all hear in the wake of the tragic assassination of your friend and mine, the Great Charlie Kirk. Give a listen, Bobby Kennedy.
Martin Luther King dedicated his life to love and to justice between fellow human beings. He died and the cause.
Of that effort.
In this difficult day, in this difficult time for the United States, it's perhaps well to ask what kind of a nation we are in what direction we want to move in. For those of you who are black, considering the evidence evidently is that there were white people who were responsible, you can be filled with bitterness and with
hatred and a desire for revenge. We can move in that direction as a country and greater polarization black people amongst blacks and white amongst whites, filled with hatred toward one another. I would only say that I can also feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling. I had a member of my family killed, but he was killed by a white man. But we have to make an effort in the United States. We have to make an effort to understand, to get beyond or go beyond these rather difficult times.
Make sure you pray for Charlie Kirk's family, for his kids, his wife, his in laws, as parents, all the loved ones around him, his staff. Our thoughts and prayers go out to them. We'll see you back here when verdict was us ender Ted Cruz all week long on the podcast. Make sure you follow us and download it. There and we'll see you back here again real soon, God bless