Bigfoot, Hi-Viz Victim Blaming, and the Garmin Drafting Hack

Hello everybody. Thanks for coming back to another episode of the Velo Podcast. My name is Mike Levy and I've got tech editor Josh Ross and Velo contributor Lisa Charlabois with me on the show today. Uh Lisa, we're gonna jump right into it. There's been a ton of really good racing this year already from the Alula Tour, the Tour of Oman, the tour of Down Under and Valencia as well. Uh we're not gonna talk about any of that though. We are gonna talk about some animals.

Uh, there's been some interesting animal encounters so far. So I want to start the tour of Oman. Did you see the herd of the donkeys? I am obsessed with donkeys. Like

It is my most favorite thing. No. Okay. So yes That is not what I saw coming left turn. So when I was d biking in Spain, I actually made a route that stopped by 14 donkeys. And then I packed my my burrito bag full of carrots so that I could stop and like feed the donkeys along the way. So I'm a big donkey fan and when I saw this clip Full disclosure, someone actually sent it to me on my Instagram and they were like, You'll love this because I like the donkeys. And it's wild to see this.

UAE rider head out and I think herd the donkey as he tries to like get them away. It's epic. Also, the gazelles in that clip, too. I mean, it's a pretty cool clip. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is pretty amazing. I think, uh, so I watched it on the Lantern Rouge uh race coverage. He does great stuff. Um, he made a good point. I didn't think about this when I was watching it at first. The helicopters. Of course the helicopters are spooking all these animals.

Towards the racers or maybe away from the racers, but in that case they were running towards the racers. Josh, did you see the donkeys and are you a donkey fan as much as Lisa? Uh, I'm not sure that I would ever have described myself as a donkey fan or not. This was not a thing that I had considered one way or the other. True. I remember being on a press camp when some people fell and there was a donkey and I sort of hung out with the donkey just while that was all going on.

So that was my last interaction with a uh donkey, I guess. They're just like friendly horses, aren't they? I've never actually met a donkey in real life, Lisa. They are so No dude. They're cool. They're super cool. Yeah. Like there's also a donkey here that I found, so when I go by on this other route

Um yeah, like I'll say hey donkey and they all turn and like say hello. Well, I like to think they're saying hello. They're not, they're donkeys, they're just looking, but like they seem very uh emotive animals. There's also donkey racing. Did you hear about this? Yeah. So it's like, yeah, you're if you're running, you have a donkey with you and then you run these races with the donkey companion, but the donkeys don't like lines.

So a lot of times they'll stop before the finish line and you have to like try to encourage the donkey to go over the finish line. It's a whole thing. Yeah. Classic. Classic are you amazing. Are you Are you allowed to ride the donkey? Or are you just running around? No, no, no. You run next to it. You're like homies. You're like in it together. It's like a partnership, you and the donkey. Okay. Well we'll we'll find a clip.

I'm wondering now as we have this random discussion if if a burrow and a donkey are the same thing.'Cause I remember reading about Brady when I was a kid. No, dude. Oh wait, hold on. Uh I'm getting confused now. I think

Uh'cause one of them is a is a horse and a donkey you know yeah, to the internet.'Cause I'm g I don't wanna be spreading lies. Yes, a burrow is a donkey. Okay, okay. Here's the here's the um Here's the here's the the core memory of that is the there's a s there's a story about Brighty, which is a donkey at the the um the

That big thing with the river and the the Grand uh the Grand Grand Canyon? Grand Canyon, thank you. Word finding. Good times. And then uh I remember reading that as a kid. You read about the adventures of Brighty and There you go. Core memory. But I can remember the Grand Canyon. Welcome to Vellos Donkey Podcast. This is our first episode. This is not how we saw this going, but welcome.

Uh, Lisa, did you watch stage five of the tour down under to see the unfortunate event with the kangaroos, two of them that came out of nowhere? Yeah, that was really rough. I mean, i again, I'm all here for the animals.

And the bike racing. We just gotta keep it separate. So that was very unfortunate. I actually think I think they had to put the kangaroo down. It was so like beat up and and then um uh Jay Vine, I think he broke his wrist and so Yeah, that's never fun to see.

Yeah. I don't know anything about kangaroos or Australia, to be honest, but I have heard and uh read or watched somewhere that there are a number of decapitated like seeing decapitated kangaroos on the side of the highways is fairly common because they Like Jayvine said in that interview, they wait to the last minute and then they jump out and they lead with their head. So I guess all these kangaroos just get their heads taken off by trucks on the highways.

I don't know. If anybody's from Australia, tell us in the comments. Yeah. Kangaroos are like um deer in like upstate New York or something like that. They're like sort of cool and cute, but also they overrun everything and there's a lot of them. Have you guys ever seen the video of that guy trying to save his dog from the kangaroo fight?

No. You have to Google it. And like punches him and stuff? Oh my god. Okay. Yes. I have to we have to bring this we have to bring this back. Are we talking about mice? Focus everybody. No. Focus everybody, focus. Uh Josh.

Speaking of animals and bikes, have you ever had any unfortunate encounters with any animals on your bike? Like picture like, you know, dogs or anything worse? Right. So um you asked me to to think of this ahead of time and uh I at first I was like, no, not really, but um, you know, my f my buddy Christian, and I don't know the history, I've never asked him why, but he seems quite frightened by dogs.

And a number of times we have come up upon dogs. I remember very clearly in a um We were doing a two hundred mile gravel mer mixed surface gravel race, although I don't know, we weren't really racing. But um and somewhere in the middle there was we could see we're coming up to a homestead, there was a a dog there and he was kind of freaked out'cause his dog was running out. But I'm like, oh no, that's a lab.

With tail wagging, like this is a farm dog, don't worry. Um, but what I always do in situations like that is I just get off the bike. Um and I generally put the bike in front of me just in case. Cause just in case. Uh and then you just talk to the dog and um it really it was a lab. I pet the dog. Christian went on his way, everything was good times. And that's usually how I handle dogs. So I haven't had issues. Um, I have been stung by bees a ridiculous number of times in the face, though.

Josh, you're telling me that sprinting away while screaming at the chasing dog isn't the way to do it? Just not the way to do it. So uh last year on uh uh a ride I was doing way out in the middle of nowhere. Um, I've I had literally never been bitten by a dog in my life, I want to say. And on this ride, I got bitten by two dogs on two separate occasions, both on my foot, the same foot. And

I wish I had spoken to you first because I saw these daw this dog come running out at me both times. What do I do? get on the gas and just try to go, you know? I ain't outrunning no dogs, especially up a hill. And yeah, the dog bit my bit my foot. It didn't break the um the leather or whatever material the shoe is, but it it hurt for sure. What about you, Lisa?

I uh it's never been a dog. Uh okay, so there was this one time I was biking from Reno to Las Vegas, which is like a thousand K. So like a three-day ride.

And somewhere, I don't know, in Nevada, it was like a plague of locusts. So for like two miles, the entire pavement. from both sides was covered in bugs and you were just riding over it. It was like crack crack crack cra it was so disgusting. And then we you get through it and there's all these like bug parts all over your bike and your shoes and your legs and oh it was disgusting. And then I also had this other time that it was tarantulic.

There's like a lot of guts to locust. Disgust it was foul. Like it was kind of like you know, not great. Um, this other time it was tarantula season. So then you had to like watch out for these giant tarantulas like crawling around and that was just terrifying. That's my nightmare. Oh dude, it was awful. Like but they're cool, but they're also terrifying. No, they're not. They're not cool. They're giant spiders. There's nothing cool about them.

Darkies are way cooler. I c I can outrun a tarantula. I will say that. So, you know, kudos to me. I I have uh an animal story for you, a scary one. It's probably the most scared I've ever been on my bike in my life. Or sorry, I shouldn't say that. I actually wasn't on my bike. Um it's bike related though. So

For people that aren't listening, a shuttle run a shuttle run when you're mountain biking, it's when you drive up in one truck, you know, you get dropped off, you ride down, and then you drive back up in the other truck, uh, to re recover the first truck. It sounds complicated, but it's fun, I swear. Um so we were doing this on my local mountain and uh we did one last run and it was quite dark and I got in Buddy's truck to drive me up to get my truck, which was at the top.

And turns out this guy didn't want to drive all the way up'cause the last like, you know, ten minutes is fairly rough, four by four, very fairly tricky. So I'm like, fine. I'll I'll hike up or jog up. It's like pitch black by this time. But I know the area quite well. It's fine. Uh, I get out and I start going up this thing and I'm walking, it's pitch black, and I hear something in the bush.

Oh god. Down down the slope behind me. It's quite loud. You know, if it's a deer, I make some noise, it should run away. It doesn't run away. Uh so anyways, this thing follows me. It's probably a fifteen minute like walk, fast walk up this hill. Um, at the top of this mountain up the skinny four by four road. The noise, very loud noise through the bushes.

follows me the whole way up and by the time I got to my truck, I was sprinting, basically, and I picked up a big pointy rock'cause it it like literally We don't have grizzlies here. We have lots of black bears which are like generally scared of you and friendly. Like a black bear is not gonna follow you. A deer is not gonna follow you. A cougar definitely will. Yeah. Yes. You have cats there.

So that's that's exactly what I was thinking, but you know, I'm not gonna hear a cougar follow me through the bush for fifteen minutes. That's true. I don't think. Like they're pretty quiet before they kill you. Yeah. Yeah. Before they kill you. Yeah. So wait, did you know what it was? Uh no, but I was by the time I got to my truck

It was like I said, pitch black and I was completely like having a asthma attack basically. And I wasn't crying, but I was like like I was scared for my life. Like this sounded like Something was following me and it was, you know, 20 feet away, going through the bush, moving branches, this kind of thing, and I jumped in my truck.

slammed the door shut, turned the lights on, just held the horn down. Yeah. And just watched. Like no one is up there where I am. It's this little tiny area up the top of a mountain. But that was Definitely the most scared I've ever been. I presume it was an animal.

Could have been Bigfoot. I was gonna say it was Bigfoot. That's exactly what it was. Da da da Yeah. So that's that is my uh if it was an animal, that's probably my my I've had dogs run between my wheels on my road bike, you know, back in the day, little dogs. Um, I've butt last year I had a bee or a wasp sting the inside of my mouth. So I've had other, you know, issues, but that was the most scared I've ever been from an animal.

I remember once I was descending and I have these Princeton Carbon Work uh Carbonworks uh forty five fifty wheels. and this like squirrel or rac like little whatever marmot thing comes running out and I was like, Oh boy, we're going down and thankfully the rims were just wide enough for its little head so it like

hit my rim and just bounced right off. Oh no. I've actually got lucky. Oh, big time. Uh we both got lucky. Yeah. That was I've actually had I've had I've had that happen a bunch of times on the bike path that I ride a lot'cause there's bunnies. Um, multiple times and the they've run out and they have run into deep wheels. So they just sort of bounce off the side and thankfully miss the um spokes. Oh good Lord. Yeah. So d another reason to run sixties. Yeah. For the safety of the bunnies.

Yeah, exactly. Everybody that's listening, if you're listening or watching, we'd love to hear your animal stories. So uh put'em down in the YouTube comments. We'd love to hear some interesting animal stories for sure. Um guys, speaking of YouTube. If you manage to stick around. Yeah. If you're still with us. We're getting to bike stuff. Gosh. Um let's uh let's go to those YouTube comments. Josh, we made a mistake in the last podcast. We were talking some shit about those campy batteries.

I think I want to say, I think I said that they were seven hundred dollars or something like that. Um, and uh uh username Slider. He corrected us. He says they're about a hundred Euros. Um Josh, how did you look up how much these things are? Uh yeah. First of all, he did not correct us. I'm gonna push back on this a little bit.

When S R thirteen came out and we did the podcast on it and reviewed it, I looked it up at the time. They were seven hundred and fifty dollars for the pair of the batteries. They absolutely were. Um they are more expensive in the US just in general. And um I believe I sent you something that they were four hundred dollars for the pair. But let's just let's just take his numbers just for the sake of argument.

He's saying that they are two hundred dollars or two hundred Euros, but dollars same. Um and that's for that's That's for the pair, right? A hundred euros each. And what is a SRAM battery? Like sixty? Fifty? Yeah. Yeah. Fifty sixty eight. Still that's still a good increase. Is the price of a bigger one? And you need ones front and rear, so Yeah, that is annoying. Is the price of a battery enough to put either of you guys off using or purchasing this group if you were buying this group?

Is that a factor? Like w uh bikes are expensive. I don't know, man. Like tell me something that's cheap on this thing. I don't know. I'm still looking. So yeah, I mean it's a bummer though. Like that is it definitely makes you. Yeah. Yeah.

The way I wanted to frame it was more that um I think the thing about the SR thirteen group set is that when you look at it and you think in your head, y you associate it with SRAM because SRAM did the the first d removable batteries and you associate it with this idea of oh I'll just grab an extra battery for sixty bucks.

Uh but that's not really how that group set works. You really you you're probably just gonna have the two batteries that it comes with. And while it's not impossible to add another battery, uh you're probably not gonna do that. Is it can you clarify something for me? SRAM has patented, protected the idea of the removable battery? Is that why Ki doesn't have to be? Oh, I see. That seems like a bummer.

Yeah. Just like the endless patent war of like everything between all of these bike like what's left to innovate at this point. I don't know, Matt. It seems like it's all been secured. I know absolutely nothing about surprise. But I think the game with a lot of these patents is to actually like prevent your competitors From doing things. More than a lot of times, even more than protecting your own uh IP, it's to keep people from doing other things as well, too.

Yeah. I mean Yeah. I mean so if if you wanna understand the patent situation, you can really just look at Campi because Ye or any other like any other brand that has removable batteries, or even Shimano since they don't have removable batteries. Saram came out with this idea, everyone loved it, and then you can look at how the brands are trying to get around that.

Yeah. Okay. Uh speaking of batteries, last episode we were talking about those drivetrains. Uh Gaylain Keller, he came back on the YouTube channel and he says, Josh, the only thing that's an absolute requirement in a group set for me is the ability to fine tune

The number of speeds and gear position. I'm not gonna spend any money on a group set that I can't even upgrade to more speeds when that comes out. He says he has a nice Shimano 11 speed DI2 that's basically E-weight. Now, since you can't change the speeds to twelve, let alone thirteen. Josh, do we is there a future where SRAM or Shimano allows that sort of flexibility? This is the most ridiculous thing I can even like Are you kidding me? At the same time, it's sort of genius, but

Like I I s I'm torn because I see what he's saying, right? The levers are electronic, so like what it doesn't really matter. They could be anything. But also the whole rest of the group set is new anyway, so he's He's saying he won't buy a group set, like the new group set, in in theory, because he would also have to buy new levers. It's not like he's saying he can get away from buying

the group set. He just doesn't want to buy the levers, which, okay. I mean, yes, it's it's better for consumers not to have to buy every piece, but this isn't as big a deal as it sort of seems on the face of it. Well, I think he's complaining that when they come out with the twelve speed and the thirteen and he's like, Well, ph now I'm stuck with the eleven like it's just it's this constant

I guess what, upgrade, but isn't that like anything? Like what was the last there's gonna be a new iPhone this year? Is gonna be you know, like it's kind of the same same, so it's just a bummer. I don't know.

He's he's running the Wheeltop electronic drivetrain, which I've used not on a bike. I've fiddled with it at a trade show. Uh and that group lets him he can use the Wheeltop app and he can set it up to shift eleven, twelve, thirteen or or fourteen cogs when that comes out, I think that makes a lot of sense to me personally. I really like that idea. Um

'Cause a lot of times when a new group comes out, I know there are changes like the cranks are three grams lighter or the levers have a different shape or this or that. But a lot of times the biggest selling feature is whoever the company is has squeezed in a new cog in there, um, which can be advantageous for sure, but just imagine if you could just go to the app and just go, you know, you get the new cassette.

And then you go into the app, you add add the gear or whatever you do, tear them or whatever is required. I mean, that makes all the sense in the world, but it also means Like Sram and Shimano and Campy, they're never gonna do that because then the people don't have to buy the new things, right? Mm-hmm. No, I disagree with that framing. Because they're uh like, let's talk uh let's talk SRAM and when they went from

uh twelve to thirteen with explore, right? They created uh they dished the cassette onto the wheel and they did all this crazy stuff to actually make that work. And so would it be sure, it would be better for the user if they didn't have to buy the new levers, but you'd still have to buy everything else. It would just wouldn't work.

So what he's talking about saving like between two and four hundred dollars, which yes is great, but it's I again I don't think it's as big a deal as it seems on the face of it. Twelve and thirteen fit into the same And everything below that. They all fit into the same space though. So presumably at some point someone's gonna put a fourteenth cog in there and it's gonna fit into the same space as well. You know? So you wouldn't have to buy

Anything new except for the new cassette. Or maybe a chain that's that's narrow. I don't know. It doesn't fit into the same place. The one by thirteen dished onto the wheel. They moved the spacing out. Oh right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the whole thing. If so if you were in some magical world where everything remained the same and they just added a

uh cog, then yeah, y then this would be stupid if that didn't if they didn't allow that. Well, that would be annoying. But we don't live in that magical world. And Wheeltop, I think what they're really doing is they're saying If you have whatever you have, you could go back. You could go down. You could put an eleven speed on there and it would work just the same, which is cool, I guess.

But also I don't really think it's that big a deal. Bring back the ten speed. There we go. That's the a that's the answer. Just go back in time. Let's like Go to a simpler time when your knees hurt and it was suck to climb. Uh I also want to push back on his on his point that his eleventh speed is E waste. Why? Well, what's the twelve? What's the new new? Well right, but he's making that choice.

Shimano isn't forcing him to upgrade. He could continue to ride eleven speed if he likes it. Come on. Who doesn't want to upgrade when the new stuff comes out? Like that is not fair. I I feel for this dude. I think it's totally a valid um comment, it sucks, but it's also the price of progress. I mean, you know, it's it is what it is. It's also shitty for the resale value as well. Like in everybody's mind, as soon as twelve comes out, eleven is obsolete, even though we all know it's not.

But yeah. It kinda it kinda feels that way. Maybe the bigger question is why are we so easily Like hyped in this stuff. Why all of a sudden twelve comes out and we're like, Yeah, eleven is crap. Like that's'cause we're the problem. And I won't I mean that is exactly the point that I'm trying to hit on. Uh you said it more eloquently.

is that yeah, this is cool and all, but the realistic use case of it is very small. And the real problem is that this dude wants the new new and doesn't want to pay for the new new. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. Uh well speaking of less expensive group sets, Robert Floyd dash I three P. He says he enjoyed your group set comparison article and discussion, Josh. Uh

He says, but he'll rarely or perhaps never touch these group sets. Maybe an article comparing the lower tier group set group sets, which will definitely broaden the pool of contenders, including perhaps the Chinese ones. Uh so Josh My question for you is in your drivetrain article uh that went up last week, you basically uh the premise of it is None of these supergroups are

Red, Axis, Durace, Super Record, whatever. None of them do anything shitty. Like they're not breaking. They're not like they're not holding you back. Um, so it's really just, you know, talking about the personality of the group and what suits who were more than other people. But wouldn't a big group set comparison article comparing less expensive offerings give you some things to complain about? Uh, probably not. Well not well so

I here's the thing that I love that SRAM did with their last when they launched Force, which was amazing. Because I remember reviewing Oltegra back in like twenty twenty one when it last came out, the last generation of that. And you would do these dances where you're like You know, this seems like you're getting Dura Ace for less money, and Shimano doesn't say that. But Saram was like, Oh Let's be really clear here. You are getting red. It just weighs more, and uh it costs less. And so.

You know, uh he I look, let's pull back the curtain a little bit. I was playing a I was playing a media game of like look at the shiny stuff and like here's the best of the best, right? But I could have done the same article and written the same thing if I had just chosen rival or force or you can pick whatever level you want. They're all just as good. They shift just as well. That's part of the magic of electronic, really. What I would like to see, Josh, is for you to get wheel top.

Or uh L L T L two L T L two L two. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Put put those things on your silly Kulnogos or your Bianchi's or whatever. And I want you to ride them and I want you to tell me how they compare to a much more expensive electronic group. I think that'd be super interesting. Would you do that for I I would love to do that and let this go out to the industry right now. If you have a way for me to do this, I would love to do this. The people want to know. I don't want to report on that.

Here is the problem and this is something that's a little hard to put into words on a for the for a written article. And but it is a challenge for consumers also. The same problem ex it exists. Um if I want to review a Shimano group set, call up Shimano. I don't actually call anymore because that's not a thing, but let's just pretend. Call up Shimano. I say Shimano, I have this idea. I would like to do this.

I would like to do this article, please send me this. I have a person that I talk to. They help me. If I have a problem with that, then I talk to that person. Uh who am I gonna call for L two? There's there's no one and I have tried and it I c I can't. I I have an idea. I have an idea here. Velo, you should b Velo should buy Wheel Two Or L no, L two, I'm getting my groups confused. And the wheeltop groups buy them like a normal person, like a consumer. That's awesome. And yes.

Expense Velo, you know? Send a bill to Robin or whatever. Isn't it like AliExpress anyways? Yeah, exactly. Get the shit. Be a consumer about it. That's cool. And install it yourself. figure out what's going on with the stuff and then You ha if there's issues that come up, even warranty issues, you've got to deal with, you know, Amazon or whatever, how you have to deal with it. I think that would make an excellent, interesting article.

Not that I'm saying that. I'm gonna plus one on that one. Absolutely. Give the people what they want, Josh. Thing things are breaking up here. I can't hear your guys' signs. I also think wheeltop on your Colnogo would be sick. I think it would make it I think it would be very interesting.

I don't actually have a I I sent the Col Nago back. I don't have the Col Nago. Sad. What did I have? A Bianchi, right? Yeah. Hold on, but that's a good question. In our sort of again, this is more like in that like I don't know, snottiness of biking, like the Italian group has to go on the Italian bike. Like the L two, is it going on a X Lab bike? Like do you have to, you know, have a comparative bike? for the sort of phl you know, to appease the uh cycling gods, if we will.

I would love to see Josh on an all Chinese bike. X Lab, wheeltop, uh, whatever wheels, you know, get all the light bike wheels. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. All the things. And uh yeah, tell us what it's like. I think that'd be a great article. If you anybody that's listening and you agree, put it in the comments. Let's make Josh do this. Yeah. So I'm I I I just wanna be really clear. I am on board with that. Um and um my hope is that when I head to

uh Taiwan, hopefully, if that actually happens and that happens soon, that I will make some connections and that I will um have the opportunity to bring that to people. I um for all my joking about writing the best of the best and Bianchi and whatever Italian thing. I would like to bring that coverage and it is something I have been working on for a long time.

Josh, you've been using the new uh Garmin Rearview eight twenty radar light thing. You've written an article about it. It's on the Velo homepage right now. But I just want to pretend that I haven't read that article. Let's just pretend.

and that I know nothing about these radar things. Could you give me uh just like a quick breakdown of what this radar light is and why I would want to use it? Okay, so first of all, I never I never ride without it. And I think you're gonna ask me a little bit more about that, but I absolutely love these and I have tested all of them on the market. including the Chinese brands that everybody thinks I don't test. But the Yes. This one, so what the what a radar does in general. So

It's a light for one thing, but that's not important. And in fact I sometimes turn off the light. Um but what it does is that it bounced it's just like speed radar. It bounced you know, the Cop pulling you over. It um bounces a signal off of it just sends it backwards. And if there is something back there that is coming towards you, then it shows up on your computer and it can show up as a it it can beep.

Or it can show up as just like a thing on the display and it notifies you that there's something there. Interesting. Okay. My uh we're gonna get into the details on this new Rearview 820, Josh, because you've been using it for a while. But I guess before we do that, um one of my questions is you said you never ride without it. Is it like how much

Do you depend on this thing? How much time do you spend looking at the computer screen and thinking about cars? And the reason that I asked that is many years ago I had a friendly disagreement with a a buddy, uh, a riding friend who would always use a little mirror on the side of his glasses. And I guess the disagreement was is I was watch this guy stare in his mirror for like the entire ride and when he would see something coming up.

he would like move over and basically be in the ditch. And I mean, I'm not judging anybody about anything'cause like he probably had a terrible experience with a car, you know, like, you know, whatever, of course. Uh, to each their own. But I picture myself if I would use a radar. Just like getting used to the thing and just staring at and being nervous, you know, the entire time, like watching the radar, watching for cars. Is that a thing? Or am I talking out my ass?

Well, I it's like you it's like you're really good at this, Mike, these interview things. And you slow pitch me these questions that are just so perfect because Everyone in the comments are like, Well, what just get a mirror? It's like eight dollars or five dollars or whatever. A mirror is an active thing. You have to look in the mirror. That's the problem, right? That's why I

First of all, we can make whatever jokes about riding with a m a mirror or not, but that's not what I'm talking about. I the reason that a mirror does not work for me is because I don't wanna stare at the thing. So if you remember, I'm gonna bring you back to the time before you crashed into the car and we rode together. Oh my god. PTSD and the car needed radar for me. The car needed radar for you. But um So If you remember what

We were going through sort of a curvy road in the hills and there was a bike lane and I was riding next to you and I was chatting away and I was not concerned about it at all. And both you and Alvin were both a little like, uh, what are you doing, dude? And I remember here's the th yeah. So I do that because I know there's not a car behind me. And when a car comes, it'll beep and then I'll move over. And I don't have to worry about it.

And there's also times like if I'm descending fast and you hear the wind, you can't tell if there's a car there. And I might not move over if I'm descending above the speed limit and a car comes. But if there's an opportunity that feels safe for me to move over and I know there's a car there, I might move over. Like it allows me to make a decision.

I will say, riding with people that have that is awesome and kind of annoying all at the same time. Like the beeping is great because then I can hear it, but also the beeping is so loud, I can hear it. So it's also like Kinda cool, kinda not great. Yeah. Uh I will say one note about the beeping is that if you ride in the city They're a little bit like absolutely if that's your thing in the city, you probably don't if you only ride and I say this in the article.

If you only ride in situations where there's always a car behind you, you probably don't want this. You could use it that way. It is accurate enough to use as a mirror, but um it just it's just constant information all the time. It's beeping and it's like

Uh you don't need to know if there's always a car there. This is what this really does well is you're out on a country road, you don't see cars that often, and you don't wanna have to pay attention to when they're coming. It'll just tell you and you can make a decision. I think another really nice feature if you don't use this already is the fact that if cars are coming really quickly, it also gives you a different indicator on your on your head unit, which is nice because

Cars can come closer to you know what I mean? Like not all passing cars are the same. And so I think that's a really great feature. I personally kind of I don't use it and it's not I'm not a big fan of it, but I can appreciate the tech and I see why people really do love it. Josh, you were using the previous version of the Garmin radar light.

Uh, I forget what the name is, five twelve or something or other. Um five four and five. There you go. So how is this one different? Is it more expensive? What are the new features? What has it improved on? Well, of course as a man of the people, I have brought you a review about a three hundred dollar light. Yes. Keep doing the Lord's work, sir. Uh now to be fair, the old version was two hundred dollars and that came out in twenty twenty. So

you know, there's time has moved on a little bit. Uh also the Wahoo radar is two hundred and fifty dollars and it doesn't it does it has the same features as the old version of the Garmin. So the new var the new version for$300, it does a couple of things. One, it expands on that um that ability to assess threats by showing you the size of the vehicles. that are there. Um, and also where they are in

space in terms of are they behind you or are they next to you in a different lane. There's like now an indication of that. Um However, I do not think that stuff is all that useful. And I say that in the review, because it's a lot of information that you have to process.

Now, uh Lisa, you'll probably under actually Mike, you know, you m you've probably experienced this too. You're riding in the middle of nowhere on a highway side. There's actually not a lot of cars, and occasionally there's a giant truck that comes and you're like sucked in like your whole bike moves and yeah, right? And so I do think that the size indication would be helpful in that situation, but that's sort of a niche situation. Most people don't experience that. Um

For the most part, I don't think all of this notification stuff is all that inform all that useful because it's just too much information. But what is magic and that no one else is talking about is this new radar. is a drafting detector. You can see if your buddy is holding your wheel. That's so cool. it loses track of cars when they match your speed. And this happens because it's just the reality of how radars work, right? It sends a signal back.

The signal comes back to the head unit and it says, um, there's a thing coming towards you. It's at a higher rate of speed than you, right? Um but if there is suddenly something that is at the same speed as you, then it will say, Oh, there's nothing there,'cause that's a tree or a light post or whatever, right? And so cars will disappear.

And I don't actually think it's that big of a deal'cause usually when this happens, you know there's a car there. It's that time when the the car's being really nice but also kind of really annoying where you're like, please just go around. Yeah. Totally. You're like, thank you for not being like harassing, but also like whatever. However

This new radar has same speed detection. So it will actually tell you that there is a car sitting there and it that car will not disappear. But the magic of this is that the radars have always been able to detect a c uh a bike. If someone sprints up behind you, or um e bikes is a common one where I'm like, There's no car there, but that clearly is so right. And you can tell that there's a bike coming behind you.

But if your buddy was like so if I'm riding with somebody faster or or I'm faster than them and a lot of times I'll be like, Oh, I'll take the front, I'll cut through the wind, just hold my wheel. We got this, no problem. And it can be really hard to keep them there and not drop them by accident. Now I can look down at my radar and I can see that they're sitting there. And if I start to drop them, I can see it.

Or you can see when some creepy dude shows up unannounced and doesn't say anything and is just wheel sucking behind you and not taking a pull. You're like, hey man Josh, uh when the other riders behind you

Uh, does it show like if they backed off, you know, if they if a gap opened, let's say a bike length opened, is the radar that precise that it will tell you the bike length opened and you need to just ease off a little bit and let him close back up again? Or is it he has oh really that precise? So basically the way it works is the top of the radar, um or the top of your display is the uh is you, essentially. And now they uh they have a button there and I'm not sure if that's actually um

I can't remember if that it like a little circle was always there before, but it doesn't matter. The top of the head unit is you. And the detection distance is a hundred and seventy five meters. And so when a vehicle enters that detection distance, you'll see it pop on to the r the head unit at the bottom of the screen.

And then you can watch it come towards you and pass you. And if it's a bike, you can see them sitting behind and moving forward and backward. And so there is one big catch to this, and it's not the three hundred dollars. The big catch to this new radar is that the AMP plus profile is essentially frozen in time and being abandoned by everyone, including Garmin, who invented it. Uh so you really you can technically use this light with ANP Plus.

But really, you're gonna want to use it with Bluetooth. And the reason that that matters is that means you need essentially the Garmin X forty or X fifty, so uh ten fifty, eight forty, eight fifty, uh five fifty. Yeah, you need a new computer. And you can have same speed detection with other computers or older garments. However, there's a lot of nuance that you get when you also have this lane detection thing where you can see them moving around in space.

And so with an older computer or a different computer or non Garmin, you would just see the dot behind you and you could see them moving forward and back, but you just you're not gonna have the nuance that that you do on a newer computer. Okay. I wanna know how it interacts with the computer. So

Uh we all have our data screens that we prefer, uh like to default to. Um you're riding along, you've got your data screen with your power, your map, or whatever, like the main one you have on there all the time. Car comes up behind you, does it automatically pop up like overlay on top of that data screen? Does it make that data screen disappear? Do you have to be on the radar data screen? How does that work?

It just pops up on that. You can choose right or left uh side and it just pops up on the side and it's partially transparent. Like an overlay. You can Yeah, it's an overlay and it's off to the side. So it covers like the side of I'm trying to think what I have on up there, like the side of my power number maybe at the top. I it covers it slightly, but you can still see the numbers. Um and then it just comes on and off as cars Come or go.

Okay, that's interesting. You know what would be a good feature? Maybe this already exists. Um, I often ride with one earbud. If you could pair your earbud to the light, So when a car is coming up it just like beeps in your ear or something. I like that idea. There's a car coming. Yeah, exactly. Mike, be careful. Be careful.

So my buddy has it uh my buddy has it with no uh sound. It just his head unit will turn red or g or yellow, depending. Um and that's one way to do it. I prefer the sound because I don't actually stare at my head unit all that m I don't know, I go back and forth about staring at it or not, but um Yeah. Whatever. There's there are different ways to handle the alarm situation. Okay. Uh can you tell me about the brake light feature as well? I don't think that's new, but I'm interested.

It's not new and there's a bunch of people that have it, but basically it uses an accelerometer. When you slow down then the light gets brighter. It like changes its flash pattern slightly too. I don't actually I know it sounds cool. I saw in your notes you wanted to talk about it. I don't know how much this actually helps because Does a car really know that it's like I I It doesn't hurt, I guess.

Dude, how can that Garmin light get any brighter? Seriously, it's gonna burn my retinas if it goes any more intense. Like, do the world a favor. Oh boy. I I'm sorry if everyone in the comments loves this light. It makes me insane. Uh Lisa, you said that you don't run a radar light. I'm curious as to why and then I also want to know what measures you take for safety in traffic, whether that's

You know, an eight foot tall randonier flag you have or strobe lights on your helmet. What what why don't you run the light? The shade. I use an eight foot pool noodle, actually. Yeah. Yeah, I mean no, listen. I I actually I have one that I keep in Ottawa that when I go there because it's flat and it's country roads and and sometimes I'll use it.

I don't like having so much information on my computer, right? I don't go ride so I can go stare at my head unit. I mean Sometimes if you're doing an interval or whatever. I I rely on the kindness of people like Josh that run this so that I can hear that the beeps are happening, but I don't have to deal with it. Um there's also always gonna be a place in my heart for the dude that has the really loud car back.

Like that one's a legend. So thank you, sir. It's in in the group. Um, yeah, I wish I had a better system. I don't. I I I probably should. Uh there's been Plenty of two in the morning rides where I was just like, I just hope this truck doesn't take me out, so let's see what happens. So no n standard tail light, no vests or anything like that. Oh that part. Oh no no no. I mean I'm lit up like a

You have to wear reflective vests. So, yes, there's nothing more stylish than all the ref reflectivity, ankle bands, um, uh, a vest. Uh I think you also have to I usually put like a reflection. This is random ear rules, everybody. This is like we're going deep. Yeah, exactly. This is the third part of this podcast. I told you to keep it a secret. I know, I wasn't supposed to say it out loud. Um anyway. Yes, there's a lot of there's a lot of light.

It's one of the things that I do, uh I went to Amazon.ca and I found a LED vest that is super thin. It's basically non existent. and it has a little little re tiny little rechargeable battery like this big and I almost never wear this thing. But there are times when I'm coming home on the friggin' CD Sky Highway in like dusk.

Or it is like you said, it's two AM and I gotta ride through the night to get wherever I'm going. I'll pull this vest out of my out of my bag or wherever I have it. It takes up no room. And I put it on and the thing lasts for I wanna say like, you know, if I use it for four to five hours, it it will last like I wanna say three nights at least. And it it weighs nothing and It's very, very visible. So that's one thing that I do. I'll also there's a

I'll run obviously a tail light, but I'll also put a a tail light up on my helmet as well too, because it's much higher, much more visible. So, Lisa That is the randonier in me, so it's not just you. I'm so happy. Oh man. Nothing warms my heart more. Yeah. Josh, I know you do some things at night every now and then. What are you doing to stay visible?

Um I wear all black. Paint my face too. Uh actually I'm I'm only half kidding. I don't believe this is this will be a perfect you w after you get After you everyone finishes on the comments about my um discussion about Chinese group sets, you can now come after me about this. But I do not believe that there is any reasonable data that says that high viz actually helps you. But I I don't believe you. You know why you get hit by cars?'Cause they're not looking. Yep.

But that said, I do use lights'cause I think that lights are a little bit different, especially when they have um disruptive flash patterns. That because they might you might catch it out of the corner of an eye even if you're not looking. Um so I usually use um an exposure light. Well if I'm gonna ride through the night, I'll use the exposure taillight as a light only. I will turn off the light on the radar. I usually ride with both.

And the old one would do twenty hours if you did it that way. This new one will do thirty hours and twenty four hours if you um leave it flashing, which I would do. Uh, I also have the look pedal lights so they flash. Um, although I haven't tested the the battery life of those um exactly. So I don't know for sure I can get through the night. अब अब अब अब अब अब अब अब अब अब अब

I mean but I think that there's some research that says if you have something on your like if those pedals are great. Like if you have something on your sort of legs that moves, that's like the disruptive light pattern like that catches Driver's attention. I mean, if they're on their phone texting, I don't know if anything's gonna get their attention, but it maybe it helps. I do also use the um So Pac was quite smart about this because they have their hydration vest is bright orange.

I believe it would um satisfy randonier rules. Without having to wear something different? No. Maybe not. Something. It's a it's an actual measurement. of the inches of reflectiveness. Yes it is. Of course. Don't you worry. You're it's still right. Let's just pretend though. Uh let's let's let's step away from that for a moment and just say that um their vest is high vi it's a bright orange high viz and so because I need a hydration vest anyway, I can wear that and but I really like

I stand by the idea that there is I haven't seen anything that actually says that you're not you're gonna keep yourself from getting hit because you have high viz. It's victim blaming. I don't know. Yeah. Well, so that's I'm making a distinction and maybe without data, but um I think that if you have something that's flashing and especially so Trek has shown Trek came out in maybe twenty nineteen, twenty seventeen. They have those um

The little square lights and they were one of the first ones I think to do a disruptive light pattern. So it doesn't just flash, it does this whole crazy dance thing. And so they showed that that was That was more visible to drivers. Um there is also data about this biomimicry thing where if it's moving in a way that drivers can understand it as a person or as a you know, then that that's noticeable. Well and just the high vis stuff.

But there was research done that says if you look like a human, you have a greater chance of not getting hit. So there was also something done, some again, Swedish something something. And uh it was a light that lit up your legs in the back and and it turns out that, yes, drivers have compassion and they're not trying to kill you, they just might accidentally do that. So I uh again, I I don't even own a car or I I'm just

That that that's the same thing though. These are all things that are not high viz. These are all different things that research has shown that's not just you have a bright green, bright orange thing. But don't you think high viz is like Everyone looks so good in high viz yellow. Nothing brings out the skin tone quite like looking like a tennis ball in the middle of the night. I don't know, guys. It's pretty hard. Here's my problem with it. If you wanna wear high viz, then so be it.

But it's victim blaming to be like, oh, that person oh, were they wearing high viz? Were they wearing enough lights? Were they No. The car drove into them because they weren't effing looking. That is the problem, not the amount of high viz they had. I agree. Yeah. I can I can definitely agree with that for sure. Yeah. So that's what I like about the radar is that it allows me to make choices. I can see there's a car coming and I can see how fast that car's coming.

And I can decide to get out of the way or often, and this is gonna piss people off, I will actually move into the middle of the lane if I see that there's a car moving, a car coming, and I don't like want I don't want them to pass at that moment. That seems dangerous. I'd rather be angry than try to Squeeze between or like Josh out there wearing all black, just taking the lane. Good Lord. Please be careful, Josh. Please.

Okay. Uh let's end there. Josh, I do want you to be careful. I'm gonna send you uh LED vest off Amazon because I need you on this podcast. Um Everybody that's listening, I would love to hear your tips and tricks for staying visible out in traffic. What do you guys do to be safe?

And also, I want to hear animal stories as well. Uh, and your questions. Put'em below this video, either on the YouTube channel or in the comment section on the Velo homepage underneath this podcast. Uh yeah, and we will see everybody next week.