All right, so welcome back to the transcending humanity podcast. My name is Riley Flynn and my pronouns are he him as I'll be taking the lead this week since for this week's topic is transmasculine tips. To preface this isn't like a specific guide on what you have to do to be considered trans masculine or can be seen as a male or like a male
presenting person. These are just you know, things that you can do that can, you know, help take you in the right direction, if that's the you know, what you want to do. So today, we have Jess and Liam with me, and our lovely producer, Vanessa is also here, but kind of more hiding in the background for the technical side on this episode,
being secretive in the background.
All right, well, Liam, and Jess, if you don't mind doing a quick intro for me, make sure you include your pronouns and how you identify with trans masculine spectrum. And anything you know, relevant to share about your transition or notice anything relevant in general.
Just I'll let you go first. It's J comes before l. How about that?
Okay. All right. That works. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just I'm happy to be joining this week. Um, my pronouns are they them? And I am trans non binary. And let's see, what is this? What else is relevant? I live in North Carolina, and I am 39.
Awesome. So I am Liam Paschall, my pronouns are he, him, I am a trans masculine transgender man. I live in North Carolina, too. So same state as Jess, and we're starting to see some of those wicked bills being leaked into our environment here, which is awful. We don't want to come the next Florida. Um, something about me. So I've been just to give you give you my age, about my age, in a way, I've been married to my partner for 20 years. So long, long
time. She actually was with me when I when I told her Hey, listen, I'm, I'm a trans band, and I need to do this like now. And she never skipped a beat. She been the biggest cheerleader of overhead and loves me, for me doesn't matter how I identify. And I think that's how everybody should be.
Awesome. That's awesome. All right. Well, so we're just gonna hit on some, like, common highlight points for common questions about like testosterone and transitioning. So you know, we'll just kind of elaborate our personal experiences. Alright, so let's get going. So, we'll start with, you know, the obvious testosterone. Personally, you know, I'm 10 years actually, July will be 11 years for me since I started testosterone.
But you know, it's per Google, and the primary sex hormone responsible for regulating sex differentiation, producing male sex characteristics. Sperm a teen, I'm not going to try and say that word. It's something with sperm. fertility. Obviously, we kind of tend to refer to as like, I hate I kind of feel like it's weird saying it this way sometimes, but like boy juice, or man just
I've called it that
I know. It's also play on the way that you know trans women will awesome call estrogen. You know, they're like, women juice and stuff like that.
Titty Skittles, Rylie, titty skittles.
But yeah, so I mean, I don't know if you're on testosterone, either. You I'm assuming that kind of sounds like you are Liam. I'm not sure about Yes,
I am. I've been on for quite a few years. And, you know, it's funny, I was one of those people that when I started it, I thought, I mean, immediately I gotta grow a beard and a mustache. I'm gonna look like a big lumberjack person, you know, and you soon find out that a lot of that has to do with you know, your, your family, right and your dad, your
mom, whatever. And so my, my facial hair is coming in very slowly, which kind of pisses me off a little bit because that really does affect my whole gender euphoria thing I got going but I've been on the jail which I absolutely hate. I don't know if either of you are on the jail. I started on the on the weekly injections, the intramuscular. Then I went to the sub q. I like those a lot. But my I was having some issues
with my blood, right? So they put me on that daily gel that you're rubbing your shoulders in, you know, and it just dried my skin out. so much. And I couldn't like have anything touch it because you know, it's testosterone. So I told my doctor and let me go back on the sub q injections, and I'm much happier with that things are starting to sort of, you know,
be normal again, thankfully. But yeah, I don't know if you saw my LinkedIn posts where I've started kind of hoarding my remainder in my vials, because I'm literally terrified that it's gonna get taken away. And so then I've got this little stash over here that I can rely on for a bit. So if I don't get it, I, I feel like I'm gonna have a panic attack. So,
I mean, I feel that I, there was a point where I was losing insurance at one point, and I did the same thing. I even admitted to my like, doctor one time I was like, so I'm not gonna be able to see you anymore. So here's the deal. And like, he kind of gave me that look of like, yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, here we are. I'm alive at least. Exactly.
You got to do what you got to do.
Exactly. So thanks.
Yeah, I just wanted to mention too, as well. Actually, it's it kind of just started compared to where, where you guys are. I started January 1, I just thought I was like, I got a new prescription, like, close to the end. And I was like, You know what, instead of me trying to remember an arbitrary date, let me just let me just do it on the New Years. I'm not gonna forget that. Yeah, yeah. And I
decided to go with the gel. And I'm curious Riley like what, like what you're saying and stuff, but like, I decided to go with the gel, kind of as an intro partially like, part of it was I mean, I, earlier in my life, I had to trawl for females. Former control, but because I had a really, I had two health problems related to my menstrual cycle. And those were really, really terrible for me, like, really, really horrible to be on those hormones. And so I didn't stay
on them very long. But I'm just kind of wary of hormones. Like, yeah. So to me the gel, my understanding of it is it's, and I started on the lowest don't, you know, so I just, I just, I'm trying to kind of take it slow and easy. But I kind of did a similar thing. With UVM. The last time I checked in with my doctor about three months in and kind of mentioned that the changes that I noticed were happening slowly, which I wasn't surprised by, but I was just kind of reporting back. And she
offered to up my dose. And I was like, actually, I will take you up on that. But I haven't actually taken a higher dose, oh, I am still taking. Because I'm in a similar situation where I'm afraid I'm going to lose
insurance soon. And I would rather have it for longer, even if I have to take a lower dose, you know, and it's like, once I can, I might actually go on at higher dose, like I haven't decided, but that's kind of my way at the moment of basically like, you know, kind of hoarding a little bit of it, just so that I've at least got a buffer because to me, and I just want to be able to, I mean, like all of us, like I just want to be able to I want to control my hormones and like I don't want
to have going off of it be because of an insurance thing I want. Yes. Because I want to go off of it. If that's if that ever happens, you know? So So yeah, that's that's kind of where I'm at. And I've kind of I've Yeah, like figuring out when to put it on. Like that got me some time. Like I finally got a routine with it, where I kind of like I put it on in the morning and I kind of chill out for a while before I you know, put a shirt on or anything like
that. But yeah, same like it the topical transfer that risk does, you know, bugged me a little bit. I think it will maybe more in the summer when I'm like wearing a tank or something. But yeah, right now, I'm kind of, you know, figuring it out. But
it I mean, some people really love the jail. Some people hate it. The one thing I would say is if you are still using that lower dosage, just make sure you're communicating that to your doctor, because when you're getting your labs done your bloodwork done, you know they're going to need to know that you're still on my lower dosage,
right. Totally. Yes. What about you Riley?
So I have primarily I've kind of bounced around a little bit. I started out with an intermuscular and I attempted to transition into I'll call it a gel, but it's technically like an alcohol based one, it was like a deodorant. style. And yeah, my doctor tried to get me to do that when they initially and I was like, let's hold on, I want, I want to, I want to see the changes next year. Like, I'm not trying to go off to college
and be misgendered. I, you know, I did what I could for, you know, pushing that, and thankfully, she ended up, you know, allowing me to do it. But when I did that for the first few years, and then, you know, I tried doing the the geotextile one, and that one I didn't really care for, because I was just so paranoid about the transfer. And then I was on and off TV for so many years, there between like year like four and
like, nine. It was a turbulent time, we'll say, with having insurance and having doctors that were accessible. And then when I finally got out to the Cincinnati area, where I'm at now is when I actually started transitioning to using sub q. And that has actually been like, my favorite thing so far. So but yeah, so awesome, great, glad that we're establishing the baseline of where we're all at
with this. So I know personally, for me, I was able to get on testosterone through going through a therapist and getting like a letter. Basically designating like, hey, you know, the seal of approval, like, hey, this person is trans, they need testosterone or whatever. gender affirming hormone therapy there is for this person that is needed. And you know, they, they're just there to make sure that you're mentally stable, and
you know what you're doing. But there is also the other side where there's the informed consent, which is the other largely predominant way that people obtain hormones, you know, and that's the same idea without the therapists being included. It's just, you know, signing the paperwork, saying, Hey, I've done the research, I understand what's going on. How did you guys get on testosterone?
I had to do the whole therapy thing, too. But I had a really cool therapist, like, he was just an awesome God, he was trans as well. And so I thought I said, when I was going through, and he's like, look, you know, you, yeah, we're doing this. And, you know, we can talk as long as you want, as often as you want, I'm here for you. But when you need to let her just
let me know. I mean, you know, who am I to tell you, when you're ready to do this, like, you're, you know, you better than I know, you so it was really good, a good relationship that I had with my therapist, and was able to do it pretty quickly.
Nice. Um, I actually ended up I, in December of this last year, I had my, my Mestia plasti. My top surgery, and, um, and I actually kind of, I ended up going on to after that, obviously. And I so I kind of ended up handling both at the same time, as far as like the
letter and whatnot. Um, I, it was interesting, it was actually got a lead on it, I was feeling really nervous about it, because everything that I had heard was, you know, having to go to therapists, and depending on your insurance, different requirements for how long you have to go and different things you might have to get. It turned out that the insurance that I had, at the time I was I just needed a letter from my PCP and
a letter from a therapist. And it could also be they had like different specific qualifications that students, psychologists or social worker, or whatever it was, you had to meet that criteria. So I actually came across a post on LinkedIn. A while I've been kind of thinking about this, and trying to figure out, you know, how to how to how to figure it out. And somebody posted for this organization, it's called, it's called the Gallup dot work
is the site. And it is the gender affirming letter Access Project. And it is actually a network, they have it broken
down by state. And I was looking into this last year, so I don't know what may have changed because, you know, the climate the political climate is so much worse now for you know, trans folks, unfortunately, that this is maybe a little bit different now, but basically, I was able to go on that site, look up, look up, you know, North Carolina, got a list of providers and was able to schedule a meeting with someone and you know, the person that I met with just let me know right
away like she was like, we can have a whole session. But like I'm getting you the letter that you want. You know, you tell me what you want to talk about it but like this is, you know, she was like I shouldn't even have to gate keep this, this is ridiculous. You know, let's get you what you need. So that was amazing. Also that that person did that pro bono, which I believe is part of this whole project, this whole Gallup project, which is really awesome. I've tried to repost
this on LinkedIn. And every time I have, it's like, totally, it hasn't gone anywhere. I don't know if it's because the external link or what but, but yeah, yeah, it's, and then I ended up talking to my PCP, who I was a little bit nervous about, and this person has been my PCP for about 10 years. And
she was totally cool. 100% behind, she actually wrote a very strongly worded letter, like, basically, like, if you try to deny this claim, like, shame on you kind of thing, like, it was really, really awesome. So I was able to do that and basically handled, I actually did that for my top surgery, to to get that as covered as possible. And then through that process, my PCP offered to like, handle my care
on testosterone. And she was like, if, you know, if you want to go to a different clinic, like, that's fine, but I'm just letting you know, I'm comfortable prescribing this for you, if you want it. So it was kind of this great, like, just kind of segue into that. So I feel I felt really fortunate that I know, a lot of people have a lot of trouble with, you know, with either getting the letter and sometimes having to jump through a lot of hoops to
do that. Or, or not, not being able to have a PCP that is supportive, which is, you know, can be really tough.
So, yeah, I will say, and I'm gonna, I guess, call some people out or call some locations out Duke is actually where my, my PCP is, and my endocrinologist and they are absolutely positively phenomenal. They have been nothing but supportive. My plastic surgeons at UNC, same thing. I mean, every time I go to either one of these places, they make me feel like I belong there. They, you know, always use my right pronouns. They just, they're just amazing in terms of being very inclusive.
And so I do feel very lucky in that aspect. But I am afraid that that could be taken away at any moment.
And I definitely is, I mean, I don't know about how, how it's working there in North Carolina, but at least for like me out here in Ohio, and I'm sure for Vanessa as well, because I know she's in Ohio. Like one of the big ones that's available here in Ohio is like equitas, and I know that they're at least available like in the Cincinnati and Columbus area. But like I don't know, about further north than that. But they're like one of the biggest
providers. And that's one of the things I'm also terrified about is Ohio, especially when you look at like Aaron Reid's little thing. It's like in the next few years, Ohio is one of those states that's a hybrid state to be in. And so it is hard. Especially I mean, even though Cincinnati is a pretty blue area, there are still, you know, you go 20 minutes north that day gets really read really fast. And so, you know, it is hard and
you know, yeah. Yeah. But anywho Just a note, though, so when we're talking about testosterone are there are you know, we've mentioned various ways that we can take testosterone. Obviously, there's the types of injections that we've mentioned. intramuscular, which, for most guys, I noticed tends to be very terrifying. Because you're using at least a one inch needle. And pretty much your only option is your thigh for my Yeah, yeah.
And like, you wouldn't think one inch is that terrifying until you're like holding that needle. Yeah. Which is why I think most guys prefer subcutaneous
I'm starting the one inch needle tomorrow actually for estrogen, I'm slightly terrified
I'm happy for you, but I feel sorry for you because I'm telling you when I started, and they gave me those intramuscular ones I was like, there is no way I'm gonna be able to do this. So literally, my spouse had to give them to me for a very long time until she showed me how to do it and even then sometimes I was like, I can't do it. I can't do it. You got to do it for me. But
it needle anxiety is a thing. So I developed needle anxiety my first like year I had no problem do intermuscular I was like alright, let's go. Like I don't know how I did that. I don't either. I was fearless as an 18 year old I guess
you must have been because just you talking about that needle makes me cringe. That's how bad it is.
Yeah, I will admit that that has been another plus that I find with with the gel. I actually don't I don't. I don't really I although I wanted to needle sounds very scary. I would definitely go sub q if I was gonna go that route, but I don't have so much of a fear of needles is just like a disdain for them. I had like, routine allergy shots as a kid, like, lots of them. And so I just, I just have a very negative association. I'm
like, I get
so blame you. Yeah, subcutaneous, or at least on like, usually like a five eighths inch needle. Jimmy, that's still fine. But like, you're doing it into a fatty part of your body, like a butt cheek or stomach or stuff like that. So it's like, at least a little more tolerable. Yeah,
it's over pretty quickly.
Yeah, I know. Jess, you're on gel. And Liam, you've tried gel before? I know, like, across the board. I know, most people it's like hit or miss on either liking it or not. I'm in the camp of not liking it. Again, like, I was just, I got such bad anxiety about the transfer to my partner. Like that literally was like, I would just not do it. Because I was like, Nope, it's not worth it. It's just not worth it. Yeah. But you know, it is a variety of options, though, for how it can
be applied. There is like the packet. There's also apparently like a tube option, like, you know, you get like, your Neosporin tubes. Yeah, that's an option. And then I think the most like the favored one is the pump is what
I've heard. That's what I had when I was on it was the pump and I liked that either. Now, it's not the the dispenser or the way that it's used. It's one it's the it's if I had to do it every day, right? Versus once a week. And the other was the the literally the dryness in your skin. If you've used it for so long. Like in the same places, I'd put lotion on a lot,
right? And then the third thing was, like you said, transferring it to my partner because she would joke with me, she'd come in the bathroom at night, we were getting ready to go to bed brushing our teeth, and she'd be like, Okay, let me put my T hairs on my chin, right, like this stuff to me. Right. So I think that for me, it just was the turn off. I mean, certainly I would use it again, if my doctor said this is the only thing you can do. But it's not my first choice.
Yeah, I'm on the I'm using the pump. I tried to give me the pockets one time and I was like, no, no, thank you. Not unless I'm like traveling or something. But yeah, it's yeah, it's, I mean, I definitely get it, but it is the daily thing is made this point, I just, it's just like part of my routine. You know, it's just like, I just I do it. Like, in the morning before I brush my teeth. You know, it's like just one of the
first things that I do. And, and I do I you know, I will say that like, I mean, every night before I go to bed, I shower, and I like wash my shoulders really thoroughly so that when I get in bed, I'm not worried about transferring it to my wife or like, you know, I've got a kid if my kid comes in in the middle of the night, I'm not having to think about like, don't touch your shoulder, you know? Um, but yeah, that's, I mean, that's basically the way I figured
around it. I do. You know, like I said earlier, I do think in the summer, it's probably going to bother me more, because I don't want to always wear like, I don't want to always have my shoulders covered. Yeah, so I'm just gonna have to figure that out. It says on the bottle that like in mostly absorbs within a couple of hours. So it may be something you know, maybe something where I put it on in the morning and maybe a couple
of hours later. Like I actually just like take a washcloth and like wash my shoulders off or whatever, you know, because I don't I don't because I totally get that anxiety of transfer and it's not like that is not anything that I'm responsible for anyway.
Yeah. Yeah, I think after it dries you're pretty pretty good to go after that. But it's like you said it's the you know, the summertime obviously, it's going to be a little bit more.
Yeah, it is drying. I mean, I've noticed that too. For whatever reason that used to it. I don't know like at first it really bothered me. And I was like I was worried about it you know being a being a big problem but I don't know if I've just kind of adapted or what
probably you get used to it after a while like you said it becomes just second nature right.
Now I get amongst like my, over the years I've heard this one and I haven't ever met anybody who's actually ever used this one but there's also patch option but it's like super expensive. Like even with good RX. You're still paying like 600
a month. Like, I don't know, I feel like that one would be The most, like, obviously convenient form, is the transfer wouldn't be an option as much so but, you know, I guess the life of luxury of being able to afford 600 A month is outside the common trans person's daily problems.
Well, I mean, I was offered it and my insurance would cover it, but I just something about it just like a turn off. For me. I don't know what it was I well, I do because I had talked to other trans people who said they had tried to and they did not like it. Maybe I would, I don't know. But I also think there's this and this is going to sound really odd. For me, it's like this.
When I inject myself, it's like, I just, it's like you have this feeling maybe you know what I'm talking about Rhineland with when you inject yourself, you just you just get this like, Oh, my man juice, you know? Like I got did it, you know, it's in there. And you don't need that, I guess at least for now.
I totally feel that. Satisfaction. I think that's why like, you'll find so many like videos of like guys posting like their injection videos and things like that. It's just a sense of satisfaction. Yeah,
it is. It's this is the whole satisfaction thing. It's like, Yes, I feel better. Now I can go like lift all buildings and stuff.
I mean, especially when you're early on to I mean, that feeling. Exactly. Just I'm sure you can attest, even if it's at low dose you sure you can attest to the, the new testosterone feelings.
Yeah, you know, I have definitely noticed, I mean, I like I like kind of worked out fairly regularly before, but it's like now it's like, I like, I feel this very much this like drive to like, like, I need to go do physical things. It's like, a very interesting thing. And I also, I mean, one of the first things I noticed is like, I'm just way more hungry. Like, I just, I'm just like, hungry
all the time. And, and I think I you know, I was talking to my doctor because there is the whole you know, the, the myth of the rage, right? The tea rage.
And, and, you know, it was interesting, because especially the first, you know, few months that I was taking it, I was like, you know, I mean, if anything, I just need to make sure that I'm not like hangry like, I actually feel much calmer, emotionally, but like, I just literally need to eat more frequently, you know, so I'm like, I was like, I wonder if any of that, you know, myth comes from any of that, like, hey, like, maybe my blood sugar is working a little differently
now or something, you know, I mean, I think a lot of it is also very different. Just the cultural idea of even just the like, the roid rage from like, I don't know, the like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Yeah, like bodybuilding days, and like, which is like T is so far from that, you know? But yeah, that
that was interesting to me. And definitely, even though it's like one of those things that even though it was something that I like knew was a myth, it was still something that I was just trying to be really, really aware of my emotional state, especially when I was first going on tea, because I think partially also because of my other experience with hormones that like also messed with my emotions a lot that I was just really trying to, like pay attention to, you know,
how difficult is it for your for either of you to cry? Is it difficult for you to cry?
Currently, not as much so but my first year on team, I was on an extremely high dose that was probably not the best for my health. I also attribute that doctor did not really know what she was doing to the best of her ability. But I also just I had a lot of issues with her. That was like the first year I was taking a full cc of Yeah 200 Yeah, and then at one year, she literally
half my dose. And I went from being like I cried, probably I can count on one hand how many times I cried my first year on T. Two, I was sobbing every other week. Like it was it was really bad like that change was horrible for me. And then I found the middle ground and it worked for a while and now I'm actually on a much lower dose
and it works a lot better. But I feel like I can actually regulate my emotions a bit better than I did way earlier in my transition and not just from like, working on like myself and being able to do those things but like, just because like the actual like, I think I did talked about, like one of the first episodes I was on about, like how testosterone like you could, when I started testosterone, I went from feeling like this huge range down to like, I still felt everything, but it was just kind
of more muted. And it just kind of felt like it was like, this was the range and I could feel now versus like, I still feel everything. It's just the range was smaller. You know, and so like, that was kind of where I was like, okay, you know, like, now I feel like that range has kind of expanded just a tiny bit compared to what it used to be.
How about you, Jess? Can you cry easily or no.
I know, I actually still cry quite frequently. In fact, I was like, it's interesting, because I thought that was gonna be one of the first. And I think that I've kind of learned. And I mean, part of it for me is like, I chose such an interesting time culturally to start tea. You know, that I'm like, I'm like, I don't know, am I like, am I crying frequently? Because, I mean, it's usually when I'm like
reading the news. You know, I mean, it's like, you know, I'm reading the news, or I'm reading, read, God bless her reporting. I love it. But like it kids sometimes really, really hard to get through. And I have to just put it down. And I'm not like, in a space where I'm like, crying all day, and I feel depressed. But I just like, you know, I've I feel upset and I cry, and it feels good to do that. And, like, let that out. You know, and then I'm able to kind of process it and move on.
But yeah, it's I kind of had like, had this like little joke with myself. Like, I thought I was gonna stop doing here ready to go on?
Yeah. Yeah. Take it take it as a good thing.
Yeah, I mean, I can still do like, like, when I'm reading the news and things like that. Like, like just said, it's a I have like an angry cry, right? Like it's a it's a sort of a mad thing. But now pretty much boss will tell you, we can watch a Kleenex commercial, and I might cry right now. It's like, just tears. I need tears. Like, I feel they just come out. Right. And it's so it's, it's weird. And I've talked to other people to feel the same way. They're just like, I feel like I want to
cry. And I need to cry, but nothing happens.
Have you watched The Lion King recently?
But I don't even know that that would make me cry. To be honest. I did watch a movie. I can't remember what it was now about a couple of weeks ago. And I did cry a little bit, but not not like the whole sobbing like I've done in the past. So I do think it's having an impact. All right. Well,
I mean, obviously, these are changes that we were talking about. So obviously, like, there are a lot of changes that testosterone does have on the body. I think the best way to describe it is look at what a teenage boy is going through. And that is why you're going through a puberty like that is quite literally the joke that you'll hear everybody go through my second puberty. Hey, you know, like, there's like glow up photos that people do is like actually, no, my globe this time
was way better. Like that. But you know, like, some of the changes that like personally I saw first were like, I started in July. So like, it was just, I lived by the beach. And it was just so hot and humid. So readiness was the first thing I noticed. I don't know about you guys. Other than hunger was the first thing you noticed.
The sweating, the hunger I had to change deodorant, because literally, I started sweating so much. I was like women, it's me. Seriously, I need to switch deodorant so and even my spouse is like getting him I needed different calendared or and thank goodness I found one but yeah, the the whole hangry thing that Justin's talking about. Yeah, I feel like sometimes I can eat, like everything in front of me. Like, I just feel that way
when I met my partner's parents for the first time. Her youngest sibling was just kind of in that costume about to start puberty. And so I made the joke to them I was like you wait, he's about to turn into a garbage
that's a great way to describe it. I'm sure you just you feel the same way like a garbage disposal. You just everything is you want everything right.
But you know, other common ones are obviously like the body hair and like facial hair and things like that. Those are the ones that most trans guys are looking forward to. Obviously there's like that At redistribution in laws, that way actually was kind of an interesting one for me, because of when I went off to college, it was like, right, it was like a month after I started. And I ended up like, most people who get like freshman 15, I ended up losing like 50 pounds in my
freshman year. Wow. But like, it was like, fat loss, and then like, muscle gain, like kind of like, balanced it out. So it wasn't like the number wise was I'm guesstimating was about 50. Because like, I definitely put on muscle weight. Like there was definitely, like, I wasn't like going to the gym or anything, but like, I definitely put on muscle. Definitely. And that's also another thing, you know.
When you when you I'm going to ask this question, yeah, because I think I can, but when you started tea, did you have hair up here?
I did. Oh, I had full hairline. He went straight across, it came down to about here, actually, oh, I was very happy and sad with the hair loss. And the hair loss has been kind of more so in the last like, two three years that it got really pretty gone. But just like all three COVID I was working from home. So I just like I was like bleaching my hair and dyeing it and doing all these crazy things.
I do the same thing. Yeah. So I
mean, like, I think that didn't help any of it. I think it's sped up probably a little bit, but it's okay. I I knew what my future was. Okay, I did a side by side photo of me and my dad at one point, and Oh, yeah.
Well, every now and then I'll just, I'll just get this, this feeling of, hey, I need a, you know, much shorter hair. So I'll just go in the, in the bathroom with the clippers and just buzz it off for you know, a few months. That's the nice thing about you know, the whole transition and you just go with the flow, right, whatever, you just do it.
Exactly. So, amongst other changes that happen, you know, we also have our administration that tends to stop that one, for me happen pretty fast. I know some people it takes a little bit longer, you know, everything for everybody's transition takes its time, it's kind of, you know, depending on your genetics, and what dosage and things like that you're taking. Now, one that I know that some people feel weird talking about, but there's also you know, bottom growth. So
that's a common thing. We're not gonna elaborate too much more on the topic itself is a little sensitive. But then there's also the emotional mental health changes. Obviously, one of the main things about that, though, is like no, I feel like most people will try and get on testosterone, because they think that's gonna, like solve their depression, or it's going to, like, help them through all their mental health issues. And it's not the cure all that some
people think it is. And that's kind of why I like make sure that that's put out there that, you know, first of all, that's not for everybody. Not every trans person wants to go on testosterone, or can they medically do it sometimes and things like that. So there's a whole lot of reasons. But you know, it's, it shouldn't be used as, like a, a one stop shop for let me fix myself with this for now, you
Jess, I feel like I've talked a lot. Maybe you want to address that?
Oh, that's yeah, I'll take that on. Yeah. I mean, I definitely agree. I definitely think that. Yeah, I mean, like, I still have all the same emotions. It's just kind of like what you described in an earlier episode. Really, you know, it just seems like there's I don't I don't swing quite as quickly,
actually, between emotions. Now, you know, now that I'm on TV, that's, that's one of the things that it definitely doesn't, I mean, it doesn't stop me from having emotions, or, you know, obviously, kind of, like I mentioned earlier, like, certainly doesn't stop me from like, feeling sad about the general state of the world and, and kind of, like, you know, the scary stuff that the, the trans community is facing, and, you know, that like, I as an individual I'm facing, you know,
as a part of that. So, I definitely agree that it is it is a good I mean, I mean, I just think anytime it, it's great to be to have good mental health or to try to, you know, try to do things to improve mental health, you know, and I feel like for you know, for everybody that's just like a lifelong venture.
And, and there's a lot of, you know, there has a lot of different, like pieces to that I feel like, I definitely have noticed that with my like kind of desire to be a little bit more physical or like, and I think that is kind of attributed to what I would say is like, having a little bit more energy than I did before, like a little bit more like consistent energy. Like, feeling like, every morning, I'm ready to like, kind
of get up and go. And I don't mean that like, every morning, I'm happy, you know, like ready to get just like that I need to get moving and you know, get get doing something. For me, you know, it has been important for me to continue to go to the gym. For me, it's also been important for me to like, just like, one of the ways that I do self care is just like, take a walk in the woods by myself, you know, and like, that's been really important for me to maintain.
And I think it also kind of helps handle or have that physical desire that that I have noticed more since I've been on T is certainly isn't that it wasn't there before. But definitely something that I've noticed more. And yeah, also kind of popping back to something else. You said, Riley like definitely, you know, I mean, we're all on the same page
here. But like, you know, you do not need to take tea to be trans it is not, you know, it's like how you identify and what, what steps you decide to take to transition socially or medically is totally up to you. I don't know that I will be on T for long term like I'm not sure like I'm it's, it feels right to me right now. And so, like, I'm gonna stay on it. While that is the case, you know, but I don't know that, that's going to always be the case, I kind of have some reservations on kind
of going a little too far. Like, I think that for me personally, like, I don't necessarily want to be at the point where I'm passing. You know, just myself, like I have some reservations around that. And that's something that is, you know, something for me to kind of work through, like, I've, I've always
been gender non conforming. So, you know, like, I've, like, I've always had this haircut, I mean, for a long time, and not always but like, I've always, you know, it, like, I've identified kind of as you know, gender queer, you know, GNC, Andrew, but like all of those terms, you know, for a really long time, and it's, it's been in the last few years, obviously, that I've decided to, to, to actually medically transition to a really well, like really opened myself up to my own transness and see
the ways that I was shutting that off for myself. And, and, and for my for my own, you know, for my own processing, like getting into why, you know, and what, like what that was about for me, and why I'm ready to like, let go have it now. At the same time, I definitely don't like, I don't have the goal of like presenting as a man. Like, that is not my goal. I think it's awesome, if that's anybody else's goal, like that's more power to you. But like, that's just not where I'm at with it.
But it just, you know, it also feels really good to me to be on TV right now. And both of those things can exist, you know. So
I think that's what's so great about our community. I mean, it's just like this beautiful tapestry of just so many different lived experiences. And you know, you do your weigh in, I do mine.
And, you know, for you, it's like you said you don't you don't care about passing, you don't need to pass as a man for example, for me, that's the thing that I think between the testosterone and the gender affirming top surgery, that's what made me feel so much better those two things combined, because I got to a point where I could go out right in public and people just automatically assume I'm some cisgender guy that's walking around like everybody
else, right? And I think sometimes I feel don't want to say guilty because I kind of for the most part like to shout from the rooftops that I'm a trans dude, right? Because I'm proud of it. I don't want to hide it.
But at the same time when you have a climate like we're in now with the legislation that we're seeing in all these different states, I'm glad I'm thankful that I can walk out of the house and nobody knows that I'm trans unless I tell them so I think the testosterone in the top surgery definitely benefited me in that aspect. For sure.
I definitely agree with you. I'm in the same boat there. I mean, but you know for me is I don't know if you ever lived as stealth Liam, but like I did for a while there. And especially like within my professional life like in my Personal life I was a little more open, but like, professionally, I absolutely was self. And that's only been honestly in the last few months that I've started to push that boundary because of the legislation and things like
that. Because, you know, at this point for me, it's a matter of alright. Well, if you don't think it doesn't affect you, let me let me correct you. Because after I actually came out on LinkedIn, it was actually right after I had been let go from a job. And it was very interesting, because I actually knew one of my co workers was not a very, I don't want to say who wasn't an accepting person. He just had his own opinions on
things. And like, he learned to kind of reel it back because he kind of made him like the black sheep in the office. But like, he, you know, he understood, you know, where his role was within the company and everything. So he kind of learned to turn it back. But like, I understood that, like, there were certain things I could not ever say to him, because like, I knew would potentially not ever put me in
harm's way. But like, it wasn't ever a spot where I felt like I could tell him personally that like, Hey, I'm trans. Right? Like, there was a coworker. Literally, the first week that she started, I told her I was trans. Because like, she just gave that that much of a like, I am safe with you vibe. That like I was like, No, I I'm telling her.
Well, hopefully, it was a good thing. Oh, yeah. Oh, my goodness, she
is absolutely a lifelong friend now. But like, you know, it was one of those things, though, where, you know, it does really depend on who you're talking to, and things like that. And like, it's, it doesn't matter if safety most
time is.
And, you know, yeah, so like, where I know, like, for you just, it's probably like, you're visibly queer, you know, like, it's, it's something that, weirdly enough, I do mildly Miss, I do actually miss being visibly clear, like, I got right now is having my gauges, but even at that, that's like, that's just like a fashion thing now for a lot of guys.
Right? Right.
So like, you know, it's kind of hit or miss. I'm like, I'm not gonna lie, I think I'm gonna be getting a septum piercing just to really, like start pushing that boundary.
Go for it. Go for it.
More more ways to confuse folks. Yes. Yes.
More ways to piss people off.
Yeah, I get that. Like, I definitely get that, like, angle of, of safety. I 100% For sure. Feel that? And I always I mean, I always have, but like, especially right now, everything feels so dialed up. You know, that, that? It definitely is? It definitely is a little nerve
racking. But yeah, it's it's also just, you know, I saw something recently on a, like, tick tock or something where, you know, there was a trans mass person kind of describing an answering this are talking about this question of, you know, because there are these traits of toxic masculinity in our culture, you know, what are the ways that trans mask individuals can can kind of show masculinity in a way that doesn't, that doesn't feed into toxic masculinity, you know, and, and
that's been something that like, I've been thinking about, especially since my top surgery, and now that I'm on T, and, and, you know, presenting even more masculine, that, you know, just to think about and I think a lot, that's, that's a lot of it for me, like kind of, like, that's a lot of where that piece is for me to, like, kind of ruminate on a bit, you know, so.
So, I will say this, I, you know, before I transition, I always knew that, obviously, men were treated differently than women right? At work everywhere, right? Before I transitioned, I'll just give you an example. I could pull a repair person out of my house, and they would literally first look at me like I'm stupid, and second, never explained anything that they're gonna do and think that I'm, you know, just dumb enough to pay them whatever it is, they're
gonna tell you to pay them. And then when I transition, and I had somebody come over me, everybody that that's come to my house to work on something, painting, whatever it is, you know, it's always shaking my hand. Hey, man, how's it going? You know, just and I have to stop and it happens to me a lot now and I have to stop and think, Wow, this is really in My face now, like I understand male privilege so much more. And so I have to try really, really hard not to be that person, like not
to be those guys. So I do try and make a conscious effort like, yes, I want to come across, you know, it's just this is dude, you know, this is a guy like everybody and all the other cisgender guys, but I don't want to ever come across to anybody like they're less than right because of their gender or anything. So I that that stays right here like in the in the front of my mind at all times now. It's always there.
I feel that I think one of the things I personally have started doing to like help push those things, but like without explicitly like outing myself either, is like one of the things that I did was, I had a co worker, who would start saying, like, Oh, Happy wife, happy life comment. And actually, you know what, I'm going to tell you something, you deserve just as much happiness as your wife. So I'm going to tell you something, and I'm going to blow your mind here. It's happy spouse, happy house,
okay. Like, everybody matters in this equation, not just her. And like, it's crazy that, like, he would think that really his happiness doesn't matter. But like, it was like one of those things that like, it really did make a huge change for him, though, like, in the short time that I worked with this guy, like, just that small little phrase, I sent it to a few of my older co workers at that job. And like, I don't know how their home lives changed. But like, I know, it's in their head now.
That little thing is gonna make a difference. And like for those people on, you know, I'm sure they'll never have the interaction like this, where they are explicitly talking about, like, Hey, this is like a gender related issue and like, X, Y, and Z, but you know, they at least now have this little bit of knowledge of like, hey, you know, it's, it's a two way street. Everybody deserves to be happy. It's not a gender thing. It's, you know, the whole equation.
I think, I think something else I've noticed too, is guys get very, especially older gentlemen, they get very bothered if I say, Well, let me talk to my wife about this. Let me see what she thinks, well, I'll make the decision. Without her. It's like, why do you need to talk to her? Like, aren't you the man of the house? Can't you make the decision without her and like, no, she's my spouse, we're equal, we make decisions together? And no, I'm gonna first and I think that just
blows their mind. Because it's like, you don't do that mental do that. Why are you doing that? It's usually the other way around. Right? The the wife needs to talk to the husband kind of thing. And so I think it just just throws them for a loop because they're like, something is wrong here. Like what is with this picture?
I think most times, they just attribute it to me being a younger guy. Because I'm I am. So they probably just look at as me being a weird millennial, whatever. But all these weird
people here.
You have to spacers. So it already is, you know,
a little bit of a hand. All right, so let's kind of, I guess reel it back in a little bit to some of the changes and things back on testosterone? Is there any changes that you wish somebody had told you about? Like, before you started testosterone that, you know, you just you wish you would have known that change was gonna happen? Obviously, like, everybody's changes are a little
bit different. But like, like, personally, not that I didn't know it was going to happen, but like, I didn't know as sweat was going to be this bad. And I've had so many of my trans friends confirm it, and then not that I'm a huge fan of John Mulaney currently, but like, he mentioned in one of his stand up skits, and I was just like, you know, it's not the fat guy thing. It's it's like, it's any guy thing. It's
I have not had that think I need to knuckle where I'm not goodness, because I don't think I I don't think I would like that at all. I mean, I did have the whole you know, armpit sweat pretty bad for a while there and I've never had that before. So it's like, I started looking at my my undershirts, my T shirts, and it's like, there's a stain under my or what is going on here? And I used like, I pride myself and you know, good
personal hygiene. I always have like, my spouse will tell you, I spent a lot of time in the mirror. It's weird. And so for me, it was like, oh, wait a minute. Nobody told me that. Like I was going to sweat like this. And now there are stains on my shirt. Like, this is not okay. And I even said to my doctor, like, why didn't you warn me about this? She's like, well, you know what happens to some people to some people that does it, but it'll go away. It'll be good. Better just get a
new deodorant. Okay?
It doesn't go away. Old Spice.
That's what I was using it I had to switch to classic. I had to switch to I had been using Old Spice for ever loved it. All of a sudden, I had to switch to degree that new, like the white little stick of degree. And of course, we're new to it. Now. That's the only kind I can use.
All right. How about you? Jess? Did you have any unexpected changes yet?
I haven't really. And I have not. I have not gotten to the swamp ass level yet. So maybe I'll just skip right over that. That would be okay. You know, I'm sure it'll be okay. I definitely am a little more. Definitely a little more sweaty. But I think you know, I mean, the one thing that I didn't, I didn't quite know. And this is like, it's not a big deal. But like, my hair got more coarse. You know, that's just like, the
texture of my hair changed. And it was just it felt like one day I was like, Whoa, what is this? It's so it's like, this is very different, you know? And I just didn't, I didn't quite expect that. But
yeah, my hair changes to I totally get that my mind actually started getting. So it's always been really straight. And it started getting kind of curly at the top. And it was like what is going on here? I mean, I like it. But yeah, it started getting a little bit more. I guess body is what people call it. Volume. Volume. That too. Yeah. And it grows so fast. Yeah, I don't know, if you all have experienced that. But my hair was growing like, so fast. So fast.
I will say I think it was because I was having my hair cut shorter in general that I noticed how much faster was growing? I don't know, was growing
faster. For me. It was faster. I mean, like super fast.
Oh, wow. All right. And then I'll say he was didn't expect for and move on.
That's pretty much it for me. I mean, it might have been some minor things that have kind of left my my brain at this point, but no, I don't think so, well,
some other topics that you know, trans mass people tend to discuss. So, obviously binding is a very common practice amongst a lot of trans masculine people. It is you know, obviously the compression of the breast tissue to give a flat chest appearance of more masculine you know, pictorial shape so, there is you know, a lot of like brands that are out there now, personally I only ever owned on the works, binders, I don't know if what
binders you guys ever used. I know there's a few like well known ones like GC GC QB tea kingdom was pretty big my transition at least any others that you guys would you know, recommend or you've tried,
I tried one, I don't remember what brand it was but after trying that one I decided I never wanted to do it again. It was not fun. I thought I was gonna pass out. So I started wearing at times I would wear like two sports bras like the real compression type sports bra. I couldn't get into the binding thing it was it was very
uncomfortable. And I kept reading all these horror stories about people that had like had issues because they were binder so long at a time or and that I thought about doing the whole tape thing and that just I really hated that. So I didn't really get into the whole binding thing I just wanted and you know we I guess we could say what we want to hear since we talked about small fast I just needed to get rid of the testicles because I had
I was in that same boat I needed them gone I also had a very large chest especially prior t so it was hard to find binders first of all that fit so that's why I did like under works. That was the only one that I found that like worked for me especially as a larger chest in person. But they were there was like still like early early and like brands being available at that point even in my transition. So what about you Jess?
A similar a little bit to Liam. I tried binding a little and didn't it just felt really uncomfortable. And I would often do that. Yeah. Sports Bra and then I would wear like three shirts. And then like, terrible. That's been a big thing about since like I post top surgery has really been working on just like correcting my posture
because of so many years. But yeah, I you know, I have friends who've who've used binders for a long time, it's kind of different, you know, not nothing super major, but had some had some health issues because of it. And, and there are a much better brands out there now. Yeah, but it's definitely so good to do your research, if you're gonna you know, if you're gonna use them, for sure.
I have to run. Okay. I am super glad that I got to meet you, Riley. And you, Jess. And hopefully we will have another session together very soon. And Vanessa, always wonderful to see you.
Thank you so much for coming. Yeah,
thank you for having me. And I'll see you all again, and hopefully the very near future. Thanks, everybody.
All right. Bye, Liam.
All right, well, we'll kind of start speeding this up just a little bit, just for the sake of time then. So obviously, with binding there are like time limitations. So always check on your transmasculine friends, if they're binding, if you know they're binding, especially because like really, you should make sure that you're not wearing I think it's like recommended eight hours or less is the kind of recommended general consensus that I've
seen. You know, things like that, make sure you're washing it regularly, especially if you only have one. Because, you know, acne and just gross gets trapped in that. So you know, just make sure you're checking on your trans mask friends, though, if they are binding is still especially, you know, obviously, there's the other end of the spectrum, there's like packing, and we're not going to go too far into that day, because that is a little bit
personal. If you really want to get into like packing and those kinds of things, though, there is a YouTuber I would actually highly recommend. His name is Chase Ross. His username on YouTube is uppercase Chase, and the number one at the end. He is honestly then probably one of the most influential like YouTubers, for the trans community, at least trans mass community from early early on.
There's probably a video that most people have seen at least some point if they were ever on Tumblr of him where he was he did I think for the first 10 years of his transition, he took a photo of himself every single day. Like he ne compiled the photos and it was wild. Honestly, I know that those videos still exist on his channel, but most of his channels doing reviews on like packers and STPs that standard P devices for those non trout trans mask folk out there. You know anything regarding that
though? I'll just say chips for packing all that just practice that I never got the hang of it. But just practice that's the best you can really do and you'll find what works for you. What doesn't you have any tips or anything on STPs or packing on your side? They're just
not not specifically although I actually haven't I have an STP that I have been meaning to try. It's a It's I don't even know if I don't think it's specifically been called an STP. It's like, but do you do so? That is the point. I was thinking about checking it out, but I have not done that yet. Yeah, it's I should check out this YouTuber. That's what I'm thinking.
Yeah, for sure. I will say if you ever do try it out, I recommend trying in the shower first. It gets a little messy your first time? I believe? Yeah. Obviously, you know, we kind of touched on top surgery, there's various types of top surgery. There's also most times included with your top surgery, especially if you're having like a double mastectomy or anything like that. The option of having nipples or not. I personally opted to have nipples, did you?
I did. Yeah, I did. And I did. And I was able to gosh, I forgot what the surgeon called it but there were a couple different options for the different kinds of nipple
grafts. And I ended up getting some that are smaller a little bit like so basically was gonna get a little technical here, but they basically like removed my nipple and then like cut it down and grafted it back on so that I don't have like the super huge nipples that that some people especially when top surgery was like not as or like in the previous you know, time when it wasn't when surgeons were still working on different techniques
and stuff like that. I think this has been a more recent technique is basically what I'm trying to say. So um, but um Um, but yeah, I'm really happy with it I kind of was on the fence of whether I wanted to have nipples or not. But I'm really happy with with how everything looks so
Well, that's good. I'm glad that you're happy I ended up having a little bit doggy ring. And for anybody out there you can Google it, it's mostly just means like, there's a little flap thing under my arm here. But like, it's that's like my really my only complaint personally after my top surgery, which I mean, this December will be 10 years. So I'm actually really excited. I gotta make sure I do comparison betters. But, ya know, so I mean, sorry
if you can hear that siren. But, you know, there's obviously bottom surgery, and there's a whole bunch of things that you can do with that. That's something I haven't gotten to personally, that's probably a topic for a different episode. We'll save all that for now, you said that you're, you're pretty active with going to the gym,
Jess. Right? Yeah. Awesome. I know, that's something that a lot of trans guys tend to do, especially to help give that like, V shape that men tend to have, like, building up the back and trying to make the waist look smaller. Is that like, kind of like, your, I don't want to say like, goal, I guess. But like, is that just kind of like part of what you're doing with going?
No, like, not exactly. I mean, I, I just for me, it's more of like, to handle my own. What I feel like is at this point, my own kind of physical energy, desires, you know, and
I've, I climb. So to me, that was actually like, it was actually really, that was the thing I was the most nervous about my top surgery was when I was really afraid that it would mess with my climbing, I was afraid it would mess with my like, shoulder flexibility and, and, and strengthen the ability to like, hang and pull and stuff. And luckily it everything went well. But I did as much as I could kind of my own, like physical therapy. Surgery for
that. But yeah, it's it's not you know, exactly on the v shape. It's because I was I was thinking about, like trying to, you know, bulk up a little bit I am I am at the point where like, I'm like, I'm almost 40 I don't want i My goal is to like stay active time. Any injuries. So I'm not going to be going in like doing a bunch of lifting or anything that's gonna like, you know, I mean, some of those things that might bulk me up.
I'm like, a little too, like, I'm like, just to protect my joints a little bit more, but, but it definitely, I mean, I definitely think that, you know, staying on for me staying up on going to the gym, and, you know, in addition to all that energetic help, or therapy or
whatever. It is also like, Yeah, I think it was also kind of to appease my any concern I would have about, you know, just like fat redistribution or building muscle, I think that would help me build it in the way that I want to a little bit more, theoretically, we'll see what happens, you know, we're all getting older. But yeah,
I totally feel that. I mean, personally, like when I was in college, and I had, you know, a gym mix accessible on a regular basis without paying extra money other than what I was already paying to the university. You know, like, that was something I was trying to do. But like personally, I, I've always been a heavier set guy. So for me, it wasn't like, I was really seeing massive changes, because I've always had also like an hourglass figure, which I know so many women want. But
like I just I got big hips. So I don't really like I don't really think if I was to even lose weight that I would be able to go into a pant smaller than like a 38. Like, I'm that kind of, like bigger guy. So like, so it's like, okay, you know, their limitations, but like, I was doing what I could, but you know, I even like had like my photo comparisons of like, all during my first year. And I was like trying to see is like, am I getting the v shape and my dad's like, oh, make him I was trying
so dang hard. But you know, and there's also going to just the general wanting to stay healthy, though, you know, just we're getting older. And there's, you gotta do stuff to keep yourself going. But you said, you know, I don't want to have to worry about injuring myself. Now I know, like, for me pre T, I didn't have like, a super masculine voice. I didn't have like a super feminine voice. It was kind of like a neutral ish
round. But like there are some trans guys who will do like some vocal training, especially if they're pre t. Now one thing I'll just say is like, just the main tip that I know is like it's like chest voice is kind of tends to be the more masculine sounding like, chest voice back of throat whereas like, feminine tends to be more like, front forward and front of the mouth sort of thing. I think Vanessa could attest to that.
Yes, I'm currently doing the training.
So yeah, you know, just little things like that. I mean, just like even talking back here versus talking up here. Like, I don't know, if there was a obvious change there, but I at least felt the voice shift in my body. And it's like, minor changes, usually, but I have a bad tendency of talking in the front of my mouth, regardless of my voice deepening. But I, I attributed that to being my customer service voice most of
the time. But, yeah, so was there anything you had to say on like, anything wrong, that topic just,
I mean, I totally get that I'm, it's something I have not done vocal training, I It's one of the things that I'm looking for with tea, though, is to have a different voice change. Because I've always I realized, kind of, as I've, you know, kind of welcomed my, my transness in the last few years that like, my eyeball, cold and have a husky voice, you know, I would always, like feel better about how I
sound. In fact, I kind of had hesitation, like, even coming on the pod because of that, like dysphoric, you know, aversion or whatnot, you know, so, it, definitely, I definitely get that I would consider doing vocal training. And I've noticed, like a little shift, but I haven't been on TV long enough, I don't think to really, you know, get a big shift, for sure. I still, I'll be on the phone with people and definitely still get the man and whatever.
And, you know, sometimes I'm like, Look, if you could see me right now, you probably wouldn't say, ma'am. Like, you know, like, okay, that's, or maybe you would, but you know, probably not, you probably maybe come up with some other terms. That's just a gendered. But, but, um, but yeah, that's something that, that I may still considered. I definitely think that sometimes, too, if I just kind of, I don't know, if I'm not thinking about it, I also go to that, that more
front of the mouth. Yeah. Talking and then I noticed that my voice is higher, and then I feel weird about it, you know, it's just like, kind of part of the process.
Right now. I still struggle with it, though. Like I said, you know, like, I'll still even catch myself. Even with my lowered voice. I'm like listening to myself. I'm like, that sounds so feminine. I need to like, reel that back in just a tiny bit.
It's so funny hearing this coming from the exact opposite direction of how I'm doing it. It's kind of just kind of mind blowing.
Alrighty. So I did want to do an LGBT business plug really quick, since you know, Vanessa did one there. So actually, I have a friend who lives in Norfolk, Virginia, who owns a LGBT owned tattoo shop. They are a trans man, and I believe that it is their I don't want to, I don't want to give wrong information on that I know at least is one of the CO owners is a trans man. He is an awesome tattoo artists. So if anybody's in the Hampton Roads area, you can hit him up on Instagram and
Facebook. You know, we definitely did cover a lot in this topic of trans masculinity. I really do appreciate everybody coming on tonight talking about this. Is there any sort of projects or anything you want to share social media that you want people to follow you on that? Before we get off here?
Sure, yeah, I'll do a quick little self plug. So so I'm on LinkedIn, it's where I definitely connected with most of the folks on the panel here. So yeah, my My full name is Jess Bradley, you can find me on LinkedIn. My Instagram is actually private. So I'm gonna keep it that way for different reasons. But I have a project
that I will plug real quick. I founded an organization at the beginning of this year called Making gaming and it is a it's a blog site for queer and trans folks who want to become parents or people who are actively trying to become parents or people who already are parents who fall within and queer
spectrum. Right. It is mostly a blog site with like a little there's a there's a Discord server attached I'm working on some additional content and some additional kind of projects along with that and I'll definitely plug them on my LinkedIn when I when I get that stuff up and going but there is the site is making baby.com and on Instagram, there is making KB user on there and also LinkedIn same thing so
awesome. And so I will offer plug that you know I have a tick tock as well. You should be able to just search my name Riley Flynn, it shows up. I personally, I think my user animal is ready Riley. I remember to be honest. I also have like a pretty inactive YouTube channel, but it's a lot of my early transition stuff. So if there's anybody who wants to look at any of that that's available. I do know that that is Mr. Mission transition. And it's just Mr. Mission transition
all one word. You know, just how to tie it up, though, you know, we do appreciate everybody listening. Don't forget to rate subscribe, wherever you're listening and join the podcast. That way you can stay in the loop for updates and new episodes. We also have a Patreon now and a website. So feel free to check those out if you'd like or anything like that. And but otherwise, until next time, guys, thank you for listening.
Thank you