Hey, Edith. Christy. Hi. I'm waiting for a really funny joke. Oh, okay. I should known Well, let's hear it anyway. The past, the present and the future. Walk into a bar. Yeah, it was tense. Oh, I love it. Love it. Hi, I'm Christy. And I'm Edith. We're backyard gardeners from Colorado and neighbors and friends these days. Gardening has gotten very popular, and we've noticed more and more people picking our brains for tips and troubleshooting about gardening. We're not experts.
We just learned a lot about gardening from the mistakes we made along the way. So welcome to Upside Down Tulips. A fun podcast that celebrates gardening gone wrong Upside down to control. Christie da da da da da. Show. 81 Hello. Edith. Hi. Hello. Gardeners everywhere. Everywhere. On anywhere you are. That's right. You may be gardening. Right. This very minute. You may have better luck with your weather than we've had, but whatever. It's time to do something, right?
Yeah. It feels like to me. I don't know if it's true with you. Edith, but, you know, you get memories on your Facebook feed. Yeah. And so I would have to post, like, when my daffodils and tulips are blooming. Hmm. It feels late this year. Well, I think it's because it's been so cold, yet has been. Has been cold. It's not cold. It's windy. If it isn't windy, it's kind of snowing. So it's a little unusual. Of a spring that we're having. Yeah. And yet I'm still planting.
Well, I'm still doing stuff, too. I mean, there's plenty of time. The weather does not dictate garden cleanup. That's so true. And this week is National Gardening Day, April 14th this week or this day? This day. This week contains I'm just being kind of an I think, a bind. All yeah. This week contains. Yes. National Gardening Day, April 14. Very nice. The day before the usual tax day. Exactly. So have a nice day. Immerse yourself in good stuff in the garden and then go through Tax Day.
And this week's episode, if we have something unique, we sure do. Kristie, this is so exciting. Well, you know, folks, we always say we're just humble backyard gardeners and we are. And but we thought, wouldn't it be fun? To bring in an expert this week? Yes. Because we are persistent, humble backyard gardeners and we bug people till they say yes. Oh, we're fortunate Brittany Pimentel from Denver Urban Gardens had a great chat with me. So we're going to share that with everybody later on.
You will learn so much stuff and we love the urban gardens, the community gardens. What a great idea. Yeah, lots to learn. And we should also tell folks that remind folks that we are dropping episodes biweekly. Yes. Because we eat it. Because we are busy, because we are very busy. We're in a play that you are directing and I am in. And Christi, I don't know when I've had this many lines really to over, you know, Edith, you are doing so great.
Oh, I still can't believe we have we've been friends and gardeners for so many years and poker players and poker players. And this is the first time we've ever worked together. And I'm having the best time. Well, it's quite the experience. I mean, I love the play. I really do. It's a wonderful cast. So if you're all in the Denver area, please come out and see it at the benchmark. You will get sick by no ideas. We'll put a link in the show notes.
Oh, what a great idea, Christy. Good and let's do a shout out to a member of our garden party. We have a brand new member. We do? Yeah. Who? This is Monty from the great state of Minnesota. That sounds familiar. Monty also happens to be my brother. Oh, interesting how all our sisters joined in pretty quick. Yeah, well, you know, guys are slow. They're just so. Well, he's a good support, and he guards a lot. Does he really?
He does. In Minnesota. What? What two days, what Yeah, it's a time you squeeze in between the snow and. And mosquito season. Right? Right. Two days that's funny. That's good. 20 and 21. Yeah. Yeah, very good. So thank you, Monty, for joining the garden party. And that means, folks, that he is a supporter of Upside-Down Tulips at me, and he throws us a couple bucks each month so that we can pay the bills. And what's also kind of funny about Monty is that he's at the dead header level.
Yeah. So he pays ten bucks a month, which means not only does he get a mug, but my brother is also kind of a dead header. Is he really, like, following the dead around? Is that what you mean? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's so cool. That's very, very cool. Did you hear? I think they're going to stop touring. I think I'm right about that. Wow. Now I only read half ahead. Most people do. I don't. I worry about them. I mean, they should garden. Yes, that's what they say. Yes.
Excellent. Excellent. So, Edith, I'm dying to hear what's going on in your garden. Okay? I'm doing a lot of cleanup, Christi. You know, I have one of those holes that end in a point I'm sure there's a word for it, but like a V, the metal part. Yeah. Which is, folks, if you have an opportunity to weed when they're little, teeny, tiny that's the perfect time to do it because that the roots are little. So I've been doing that.
I have taken out maybe a hundred parsley plants and that taproot is ridiculous. They are long. They like parsnips, they do skinny it, or they look like that other Mallow weed. Yes. So the chap, the taproot is like 12 to 18 inches long. So that really gets you a good workout. Took out that I have planted. I've started seedlings of all of my squash, you know, I do a lot of zucchini and spaghetti squash, curry, squash. What else do I do, Christy?
I do other things. Butternut. Yes. Cucumbers, spaghetti, squash, spaghetti, squash. So I I have started them. Nobody's up yet because it's not been real warm. But, you know, I put them in those plastic, you know, when you buy lettuce these days, you buy it in that rectangular. Yes, plastic. And my neighbor puts that in our recycle. We share a recycle. I take it out and I put my seedlings. The little starts in there in the individual containers.
So I close it at night so it stays moist, bring it in the house and I take it outside and open it up. So it's very much like winter sowing. I've used those lettuce containers for winter sowing before their grass, right? Yeah. And so I've done that. I have and I still have a lot of winter sowing that I've done. And I also started digging in my compost pile, taking out compost and digging it in to the earth of my garden. Wonderful. That's a lot. What have you been doing?
Well, my handsome and handy husband emptied out one of my compost bins and put out all the compost into the vegetable garden. So that means that I have to go turn the compost pile this weekend. My least favorite garden chore. But that's okay. Yeah, yeah. I'll get up there and do it. But I get so much garden cleanup, I needed more room in my compost bins. That's why I mess. Yes, clean up and I have some a lot of flowers that are up. Eat it to you. I have.
The crocus is just finishing up, but I have daffodils and tulips blooming and I remember eat it last week when we talk about the great smells in the garden. Yeah, yeah. And one of them was Hyacinth. Yeah. And that there are certain people who do not like the smell of hyacinths. Yeah. Because as we researched, they think it smells like poo. And I wonder if these are the same people that think cilantro tastes like soap or is it totally different?
That's an interesting. That's a good question. I do not know. I thought I just went gut down in the hyacinths, and I just gave it a big with, and I don't get how that could ever smell like poo. It is the most wonderful smell you know, what is it? Remember when when this thing was on Facebook where it was? Is the dress green or is it dress and gold or blue? Yes. People swore by what they saw. It was gold. I don't remember, but I'm sure you're right.
But it's interesting how different we can perceive things. It is so interesting. Same darn thing. We perceive it differently. Well, I love my hyacinths and folks, I'll put some pictures on our Facebook page for us so people can see them. What color are they? Oh, have all different kinds. I have white and pink and purple, beautiful and really pretty beautiful. I have winter sowing is up. The flowers that are right now I have a little germination in my winter sowing milk jugs, pansies, collapses.
Yeah. Mexican hat, foxglove and pink ornamental poppy. Oh, gosh. Very excited. Oh, that sounds so beautiful. Is that the one with the long stem? Yeah. And it looks like paper yeah. Oh, I love those. Well, I can give you some little hunks of seedlings from that if you want some. I would love some. As you know, I cannot grow poppies for the life of me, but I won't stop trying. We got to fix that. Yeah, well, we really, really do.
I also have a lot of veggies up for winter sowing, so I have carrots, scallions, broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, spinach and romaine. That was one of my goals this year to grow romaine lettuce. I remember. So as soon as I just get their second leaves, on it, I'm going to move them out into little plugs into my garden. Smart. And don't forget, folks, if you are winter sowing out there this year, make sure you keep an eye on it this time of year to see if you need to water it. Yes.
And if you don't know what the heck we're talking about winter sowing, it's an outdoor method of seed starting. And just check out episode is it 26, take out your jugs and learn how to it could be we have two different episodes on it one go takes a deeper dove. So yeah we'll put a link in our show notes about that. You too. I've also had exciting eat. I had my lawn aerated.
Oh you know that makes for such a blissful day doesn't mean a guy comes by with a little machine and puts little holes in it. And this is my theory which I could be wrong about, but that's why I think I didn't have as many Japanese beetles as you did. Huh? Interest. Because the grubs are all starting to come up to the surface. So you think he poked some of them dead? Yeah, I think he switched them. But I'm going to go out this weekend, eat it, and I'm going to do a milky spa treatment.
Okay. You want me to come by your house and do it to you, too? Maybe. What the. Hey, I know people say it doesn't work. I know our friends at the extension office say that it doesn't isn't that. Yeah, but did I tell you folks, she is relentlessly cheerful and optimistic. We let loose, and I have it. You know, I do have a little humorist system. I, you know, got me that little hack, and I have it, and it didn't, you know? So what? The ham as well.
Might as well give it a try, because, Edith, I had a dream about Japanese beetles. Who the other day. Oh, and they were everywhere. It was a nightmare. Oh, that is a nightmare. And nobody else had. And they were all, like, coming to my house. They were over. All over my roses was terrible dream. Wow. That is just for that reason alone. I'm going to put some milky spa on it this weekend. Christy, I have a garden hack. You have this great hack about the milk. Okay, this is so cool.
If you put a fly strip around your garden head. Uh huh, so you know what I'm talking about? The one that sticks. Flies. They're so creepy. They are. But if you put it around your garden hat, it might get bugs you don't like it stuck to it. I are. This is interesting. Do there are colors that you should not wear in the garden like yellow and orange may be a mistake in that I'm wrong. You know, right now, listen. Listen to this. White clothing works well to avoid the attention of bugs.
That is why bees beekeepers wear all white. Oh, dark colors are inviting to insects while lighter ones pose a threat. Bright colors can attract these insects. Red is very appealing to mosquitoes as ah, that's what it said. That's cool. As our pink purples and orange. So, Edith, that is so helpful. If I'm going to totally change what I'm wearing tomorrow when I'm out in the outbreak, you know, it could be true. I mean, I don't several different, you know, Google articles.
Well, folks, if you ever don't understand what we're talking about, we encourage you to check out these funny and informative upside down dictionary on our website, Upside Down to Lipscomb or click on the link in our show notes. There's nothing like laughing while you're getting educated, huh? Right. If you don't know stuff. We also have fun stuff on Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest.
And right now we have for you one of our favorite pod plays quiz choice, Moist Soil, your favorite word in mine, Moyes. And then coming up, this wonderful interview with Britney Pimentel from Denver Urban Gardens. And stick around for mailbag. Okay. Ever wonder why gardeners are so gosh darn happy? I love reading. My plant died. Oh, well, I'll just plant something new.
It's because scientists have identified a microbe bacterium founded soil that improves brain function and increases serotonin and therefore makes you happy. Hi, it's me, Phoebe, the celebrity stylist and influencer who brought you Phoebe is phenomenal. And Phoebe's fashion. I always have my manicured finger on the latest trends and hottest fads. If you want the mood boosting benefits of toiling in the garden without all the digging, pulling weeds, hoeing and raking,
you should try Phoebe's choice. Moist soil. My choice moist soil features real moist soil that has been toiled by a real gardener with joy in her heart and happiness in her joints and her loins. Made with thousands of living organisms of only the best bacteria, fungi, algae and protozoa, archaea and active noble seats. Including wide variety of mites, nematodes, earthworms, ants and insects. I don't know about you, but I'm getting tingly. Ooh, talk dirty to me.
Just add water and apply Phoebe's choice. Moist soil all over your body, and you'll be as happy as a pig in mud. That's the way I like it. Quick and dirty. Plus, Phoebe's choice. Moist soil has so many other uses. Add to your houseplants. Make some pottery or pour into a nice bowl of potpourri. So get your hands dirty and hoist a bag of Phoebe's choice moist soil into the trunk of your Toyota today. Phoebe's choice? Moist soil is for recreational purposes only. Do not use Phoebe's choice.
Moist soil with more than any one person at any one time, unless everyone is fully vaccinated and are consenting adults. Comes with complimentary breath. Mints. Believe me, you'll need them OC friends. If you've listened to Upside-Down Tulips before, you know we speak often and fondly of Denver. Urban Gardens, also known as Doug Doug, is a nonprofit network of community gardens. It was started in 1985 and supports 190 sites in the Denver metro area annually.
Doug serves more than 40,000 people through gardens and its programs. It offers resources, classes social opportunities and urban growing for all ages as well as providing access to seeds and seedlings. With me today is Brittney Pimentel. She is the equity and food access director for Denver Urban Gardens.
Originally from the great state of Michigan for the past 18 years, she's held kind of a smorgasbord of nonprofit and food related roles from restaurants and farm fields to food policy and nutrition education realms. She holds a master's in international development with a concentration in food security and global health from the University of Denver and Brittany leads Doug's Metro Wide Grow, a Garden program.
Would you folks would have heard us mentioned frequently here on Upside-Down Tulips, and she worked extensively toward food justice and equitable food access for all, and seeks ways to deepen the connection to community through growing good food. So Brittany Welcome to Upside-Down to us. Thank you so much for having me. It's a real pleasure to be here. Well, it's nice to have an expert on every now and then. You know, Edith and I often talk about how we're not experts.
We just learned a lot about gardening from the mistakes we made along the way and the mistakes we continue to make along the way. We'd love to know to start us off today. Brittany, what are some of your favorite gardening mistakes? Oh, gosh, there are so many. And I think to add a little bit to what you just said, I think I like to position us as being experts in all being learners. And I think that that's just a great place to start. Right. Especially when we're talking about gardening.
But specifically, I'm a I do a really good job of not taking my own advice. And so one example of that is I do teach some horticulture education for Doug. And I always tell beginning gardeners not to bite off more than you can chew. Right. To start simple. And yet I add all this complexity in my garden. I think my first year I tried to grow like three 30 different varieties of things is just way too much.
And and then additionally related to my role at Doug is I get a lot of seedlings to distribute to the community through various programs. And so a lot of times I'm kind of stewarding. I kind of think of myself as like a plant orphanage and I'm trying to find homes and caregivers for all of these plants. But at the end of the day, there's always still plants left. And so I take it upon myself sometimes to grow again more than I should. And so, yeah, I think it was, let's see here, 20, 20.
I grew 15 tomato plants just in my personal small plant, which was just leave Yuma. That's a lot. I knew it going in and it just continued to be way too much. And, you know, usually a couple of my plants will go down to you know, various diseases or just not being super good in that year. Everything went quiet.
So, you know, I just, I was so overwhelmed and made a lot of friends and new friends and neighbors that year just giving away my basket of tomatoes up and, you know, to whoever could use them. So, yeah, people are more likely to accept extra tomatoes but not extra zucchini, I have discovered. I know that's the one where you just leave it on the doorstep and ring the bell and run away. Yeah, exactly. Well, I feel sorry for you during canning season. Yeah. Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot.
But I did it to myself, so I let that be a lesson. I think I've done it already to myself. Regarding I bought so many seed packets this year. They're so beautiful when you look at them in the catalogs and when you see them in the store, I just can't I, I bought way too many seeds again. It happens, but fortunately they can last a couple of seasons. Yes, but just something I learned along the way is that, you know, seeds last a lot longer than you think, don't they?
Yeah, I've actually heard some stories about seeds, you know, if they're, if they're kept in, you know, the right conditions and food and dry place, they can last for years. And so I actually heard a story of some viable seeds being found in the tombs of Egypt. Oh, I love that. Living and alive. And it just I think really speaks to the resiliency of nature. But also and that won't happen for every seed.
You know, seeds vary, especially depending on particle size, but I do think it's cool to remember stories like that. Yeah, it was probably blind weed. That's what I'm guessing it was. Like. Well, you know, one of the things I've learned when I started gardening Brittni is that about over 20 million people in our country live in food deserts and friends who are listening.
A food desert is a geographic area where access to affordable healthy food options like fresh fruits and vegetables are limited or nonexistent because grocery stores are too far away. And so therefore a great solution to that. Living in an urban area is to grow your own fruits and veggies, and yet not always as easy as it sounds, is it? Not at all. Yeah. Share with us what you think are some of the barriers to growing food.
Totally. And I think, again, just an extension of the food desert conversation. I think folks are becoming more aware of this term. Right. And just lacking access to healthy and affordable food. But I think another layer that is often present in areas that have food deserts is they are also superfoods swamps. So like high concentration of unhealthy food in the way of fast food restaurants, corner stores, types of things.
And so there's sort of this double burden of malnutrition happening in a lot of areas. But in terms to barriers to growing food, I view a lot of the work that we do at Dog as trying to get to the bottom of that. Right. Because we want as many folks growing their own food as possible because we really view it as such a incredible benefit, not only for the food that it produces, but for, you know, mental wellness as well as, you know, climate.
And so I think, you know, as many folks as we can get to to have that experience for themselves and see all of the multitude of benefits is really something that we're just committed to deeply in our work. But specifically some of the barriers that we find our most common, our folks that lack the physical resources to grow so that these things like seed seedlings, access to tools and compost.
But the cool thing about it, and I know we touched on all of the great marketing that that seed companies have with the packets and things, but it doesn't have to be that complicated. Right. And I think a lot of times the natural cycle of nature provides everything that we need.
So, you know, in the form of seed saving, a lot of the plants that you grow will ultimately produce a seed that you can then take to plant, kind of bypassing such a satisfying thing to do is to grow a plant, collected seeds and then plant it again. Totally. And yeah, I think compost is often seen as something that's an input to, but people can make it by routing some of their waste at home in really easy ways.
We've partnered with the city of Denver for decades on our master composting program, and we also teach free learn to compost workshops from April to October each year to the community so folks can start to learn how they can learn the skills to compost themselves in their backyards. Yeah, some people think that you need a lot of fancy equipment to compost and really all you need is a pile exactly. Exactly. Well, and I'll say this. It can be as simple, as complex as we want it to be.
It's home air. And so, you know, you can definitely have a very, you know, highly complex system. Or it can be, like you say, as simple as is a pile in your backyard. And so my system is just is three bins outside and they're open to the air, but and they need to be turned drastically. But I, but I it's so great not to have to throw anything away Totally. Totally. So, yeah, I think the other thing, too, is just taking really good care of what you do have.
So I know I started just at the end of my season having better just personal management around caring for my tools, right? Taking down my cages, making sure I clean them, maybe oil, some of my tools It's kind of a meditative thing that I like to do each year to just kind of think all the tools and resources for all that they've done for me for the year. Right. I love that. I don't care about I didn't think my tools at all this year. Yeah, well, hey, this year you can. Yeah. And so, yeah.
So I do think that there's a lot of different and creative ways to just to create those resources and maintain them over time. Another thing that I see in terms of barriers is people lacking just the knowledge and skills to grow food so I think, you know, historically we've had a lot of intergenerational knowledge around growing food, and that's just largely been disruptive.
And so I think a lot of the work that we do is, yes, it's education around how to grow food, but it's also just the support and ongoing kind of mentorship that people need to continue to sustain themselves throughout the the full season. And so one of the ways that we do that is through, again, just education and workshops, which we have a full calendar of events. We have an upcoming basics of organic gardening workshop on April 16th.
And we recently transitioned to a pay what you can model again with access and inclusivity in mind. So, you know, it's a suggested rate of $30, but folks can choose whatever whatever rate is affordable to them so that they can still participate and gain those skills. Yeah, could be a penny. Could be a penny. Yep. Yep. And so I think the other thing to, to start to get to reconnect to the intergenerational disruption that I spoke of before is to connect with someone you might know who grows.
I think we all kind of have someone in our circle who does grow, and perhaps it's never been something that you start before, but again, I think with the rise in Internet, like we we learn information in different ways now rather than from people who have that deep experience. And so I would just encourage folks to connect with people who have that experience and knowledge. And again, we're all experts and we're all learners. So, you know, I think that's why we eat it.
And I started this podcast Brittany, is because when the pandemic started and a lot of people started growing because they had more, you know, more time at home if they if they were unemployed or if they were working from home and people started asking us for tips and tricks on how to garden. And so then with that love of everybody's doing this, why don't we just start a podcast? And now here we are in our second year. Totally. Yes. It's so good. It's so good and necessary.
I think another barrier that we find too, especially with so many folks moving to the area, is just the lack of land or places to grow. And I think as you housing becomes more dense, there's just so many reasons people live in apartments or, you know, don't have access to that growing space. And I think that's where, you know, community gardens can really play a big role. And I'm grateful that we've invested in our network of 190 gardens over the last 30 plus years.
And so if folks want to be connected to a community garden, we have an interactive map on our website. It's Doug, Doug at Gardens. And you can see where there's availability. You can be connected to a garden community because we also view the work that we do as community building, and we use food as kind of a tool and a catalyst to do that.
But I also think that, you know, making those connections where you are build a sense of belonging among people they help bring you to the place that you are if you're not from here. So I think that there's again, just multitude of benefits to gardening and that those are just some of the benefits of why folks might want to you know, join a community based garden.
And Brittany, when folks do join a community based garden, do they they get a little section of the garden, is that right to tent and plant whatever they want that right. That's great. So our gardens are split up by plots and every garden is different. So some of our gardens have like over 50 plots. Some of them are pretty small and have maybe like ten or less. So it just really depends on the particular garden.
But yeah, folks are able to sort of rent a plot for the season and there's kind of plot fees that are associated with it, but it goes toward those communal assets like compost and water for the season. And again, you know, we don't want to be in a position of turning away anybody who's in a position that they can't pay. And so we are able to work with folks if that's an issue, just to ensure that they still have what they need to to grow and to thrive.
And so, yeah, some of our gardens have a lot of availability. Some of them have a waitlist, but all of that information can be found, including the steps to join a garden on our website at Doug dot org slash gardens. How are the soil and community gardens? Brittany. Oof! I mean, it varies a lot, right? I think in the region that we're in, we're just blessed with these clay soils, right?
But again, there's a multitude of gardens, but also a multitude of like great beds or raised beds and raised beds have a little bit more kind of like porous environments, a little better drainage. And so ultimately, we look at gardening in a very holistic way, and we're always trying to build the skills of the whole system. And that always starts with good soils. Like we view that as the foundation of any garden knowledge.
And so, yeah, we encourage folks to amend the soils with compost and also just knowing that growing things and having the soil covered throughout the season and throughout the year is really the best way to continue to build that organic matter within the soil. So yeah, so we offer a lot of again specific training around that, but it's also a part of all of our other training because, you know, it all starts with the soil. What about water?
You know, in our area, water is such an such scarce supply. We always to celebrate it whenever it ranger snows. And what's the access to water and community gardens? So when we go through the process of designing a community based garden, a big majority are on public land. So we work a lot with parks departments in different counties or schools. About a third of our gardens are located on school property.
And within the planning we always have specific infrastructure related to water so that there's, you know, hose access and that it's also available to all of the areas of the garden. As an organization, we recommend that that folks don't use timers or things like that, and that they really have a presence when they're watering so that they can start to understand all of the you know, watering the soil and not the plant. Right. Always water the toes and never the nose.
That's right. Oh, I love that. I will use that Yeah. So that you can sort of see that drainage happening up close and start to understand a little bit more just the needs of the different plants that are in your beds. Because, you know, as plants are in different stages of maturity, they intake water in different ways, too. And so I think there's nothing that can replace that that watering at that level.
And I think sometimes you know, there's a desire to put timers or add in irrigation and that's more automated. And I think, well, that can really hone in on water conservation. Interrupts again, that knowledge acquisition that people get from being present during the watering. And I find it's something to bookend my days, right? Like watering in the morning or in the evening, like it's sort of a mandatory practice I soak.
So that's part of the mental joy of gardening is to actually like weeding to for that very same reason. I find it very meditative. Yeah, well, ask me why I'm so I could be happy. And I say, Well, gardening is my therapist and I love watering. Yeah. And you really get to see how the plants are growing. If they need anything, you can.
If you're hand watering, you can see if there's, if you need to step in on any working with pest around pests or if there is any mole that's happening in your garden. You could see it in the early stages and deal with it in an Janik way pretty easily. Totally. And that's another thing that we always say is that like hand watering brings you in deeper relationship to the plants, right? Because when you're watering, you notice other things. You notice, oh, like what's going on at this plant?
Or, Oh, I'm noticing an insect here or something, or you just won't have that information or feedback loop if you're doing it a different way. What can some of our listeners do who are interested in helping support Doug? Brittany, right? Yeah. So we have a multitude of of avenues to do that.
We have a very robust volunteer network and community where folks can volunteer for either a work day in a garden, pulling weeds and things like that, or for one of our our several programs that we have either at the dog office or elsewhere in the community. And the website for that is Doug Morgan Volunteers. And you can find all of our upcoming volunteer opportunities is another way is through our monthly stewardship program that really just supports our work more broadly in the way of funding.
And so we have again, Doug, stewards that support our work in an ongoing way or obviously always welcome to accept individual donations as well. But information about giving can be found at Doug dot org slash membership. And what about our listeners who aren't from the Denver metro area? We have listeners in all 50 states and actually we have listeners in 50 countries. What's, what's going on in the community garden movement and how