Hello and welcome to another episode of Upfront and Undivided with Luke and Dean'na. Hi. Hi babe. Yo. You have had a long day. I have had a long day. Just upfront warning. I was under sedation this morning for a screening. Everything's fine. Clean as a whistle. Yep. But yeah, so if I'm having trouble making words in the right order, that's after effects. I'm just going to, I'm going to just say it, babe, you're fun when you're like high. When you're high. Under medicine of course.
Under medicine, under the care of a medical professional. Yeah. Anesthesia is what you had to have today. Yes. And you came out like, that was the best. I should have. I wish I had taken video. You're coming around the corner in your cute little wheelchair. Yo. Hi babe. Yes you are. I like it though. Yeah. Because again, whatever comes, whatever's deep in you is coming out. Yes it will. And the sweetness of who you are is what was coming out. I appreciate that. I liked it babe. Thanks babe.
You're cute. What are we talking about today baby? So this week we are talking about, I'm calling it Rules of Engagement. I like that. How to fight without fighting so both of you win. Alright, we got a subtitle even. Yeah. Wow. Boom. I like that. No, seriously I like that. I like that. That's good. That's really good. I mean we could just stop right there. Alright, thanks for coming. I mean. Some of our listeners might be upset that they only got two minutes. You're right. I'm sorry.
We'll stick around. Okay. It's fine. Okay, so tell me what some of your thoughts are. I mean. What brought this topic into your brain? I mean part of it was back to, I know last episode we had mentioned that story of the gentleman in the gym. Correct. You know, hey, you ever go home and start a fight with your wife? It's like, ugh. No. It just sounds so odd. But it's like, I know people do that. Yeah, unfortunately.
Yeah, it's just, you know, and it's, and I know there are some people that they have some times they have trouble venting. I'm going to say it this way. Venting their frustration. Yes. At the wrong target. Yes. Or if they can't do it at the target that they're venting at, they're not venting in a healthy manner. Yes. So they're talking about the subject and just using you maybe as a sounding board as opposed to a punching bag, a verbal punching bag. Right. Okay. Okay. I got it. So. I got it.
So yeah. So in a sense, disagreements are normal. Yes. Are natural. Yes. You know, technically, if you look at the definition of an argument, it is, it's a disagreement. Yeah. It's a discussion. It's talking about different ideas and supporting your different opinions. Right. In a manner between two or more people. Right. But I think that arguments are healthy. Yes. They can be healthy.
It's, I think so many times arguments and disagreements bring on that negative look and that negative, oh, you're arguing so it has to be negative. Right. You know, and I think that disagreement and arguments have gotten such a bad rap over the years that, you know, it's like people have said to us, you know, well, we can't fight, so you don't talk. Right. Well. And we're like, no, we talk all the time. Yeah. So I think it kind of keeps us from fighting because we talk out our thoughts.
Yeah. Yeah. And because we're okay with disagreements and we're okay with arguing. Right. In a healthy manner. Right. And we're okay that we don't believe the same thing. Correct. You know, and I think that's where a lot of, I think that's where some people get in trouble. Okay. With this topic. They think that, you know, we're a couple, we're married. Yeah. You know, we're helpmates, we're partners, we're in this alliance together. Right. We have to agree on everything. Right. And we're people.
Mm-hmm. You know, and that's not going to happen. Right. You know, so I think that's the biggest thing, the first thing I want to come against is, you know, what is a disagreement and what is an argument and it can be healthy. Yeah. And what is just like a full blown fight. Right. I would think like when you fight again, because we talk about fighting in the spirit. Mm-hmm. You know, you're combating something, you're pushing up against something.
And if we've always said, when you're in that relationship, whether it's a marriage, a friendship, a family member, however this relationship is, the whole thing is, is I'm not fighting against you, I'm fighting with you. You're not my target. It's just like when we talk about when we always have two different ways we go about things where driving in the car together, but we have two different thoughts of how we could get to the destination, but we're getting to the same destination. Right.
We're just going about it in a different manner. And so I think when it comes to fighting, if we say, hey, we're on the same team. Yeah. We want nothing but the best. And then there's the other fighting where it's, I'm demanding my way. Yeah. You're wrong and I want what I want, how I want it. So I think that's the difference. I mean, I think that that would be the basis. So when you're about to, you're engaging in something that is not okay or that you're disagreeing about.
I think that should be probably one of the number one questions you should ask yourself before it starts getting too much out of hand. Number one, okay, what is our disagreement about? Let's get a clear cut. What is this? Or is it something that is it something that's festered that we're not quite sure where the root is and that we're needing to dig at it?
Okay. If that's the case, then we're going at something together, you know, as opposed to you did this wrong and you, you, you, as opposed to saying what I'm going to own my part, what did I do wrong? How can I make this better? And then that way you can heal in whatever manner you need to. So you can own the responsibility of what you need to do too, you know?
And it's like, I think too many times when people think fighting, they see people, like you see the fist fights, you see the arguing, you see the, you know, Telemundo dramas that they're throwing things in their faces. You know what I mean? It just, it's dramatic. It just gets out of hand. Just like whatever. And somebody's usually in the process of trying to demand their way as opposed to saying, hold the phone. Is there a compromise we could do here? It is, is what I really want worth doing.
I mean, if, and in my mind, because I was raised in a home where we fought and it wasn't in a positive, you know, wasn't in a positive.
And I think because when I was raised in that, in my mind, I'm thinking, I don't want to fight you, especially if, if it's going to be nonproductive, if it's going to cause more harm than good, you know, it's better that I just sit here quietly in my disagreement by myself as opposed to engaging into something, especially if I know that it's going to just create a cesspool of just mess.
Right. And so, um, I would say before you engage into a disagreement or an argument, or even if you don't even realize you're about to get into an argument, but you're just, Hey, I have this thought, you know, and then it turns into something else. Take that extra time to step back and say, I'm sorry, hold tight. I want to honor you. I want to be respectful. I want you to honor me and be respectful.
Um, let's, let's stay on topic and make sure that we're dealing with, with the, you know, what am I trying to say? The, the topic at hand. Yes. So, yeah. And I like how you said that because it, it made me think of something that I had heard before. Um, you know, when thinking about, is this, is this something that we need to have a discussion about? Is it something that we need to iron out the wrinkles, have a compromise, put everything out on the table?
Yeah. It's not going to matter in five years. That's good. Should we spend more than five minutes on this? I love that. You know, because I mean, there are, there's a lot of things that, you know, there are things that you and I disagree with and it's like, should this be a discussion or should it just, I'm going to let you go your way. You're going to let me go my way. Absolutely. You know, we don't, we don't agree with how my shirts are get folded. You crack me up on that one. I know.
But again, it's one of those things that it's just, it's, it's not really. And that might seem incredibly minor to some people, but then it could, that actually could absolutely irritate and just make a big old deal.
Yeah. Or it's like, um, one of my favorite examples that I talked about when we do talk to people that are engaged or thinking about marriage, you know, that when, once you are married and starting to live with somebody, there's, there's all sorts of new things that you didn't realize about this person like toothpaste. Yes. You know, just by two, two pieces, just by two of them guys, just, just by two. Yeah. Yes. You know, because again, and for some people that's, that's a big thing.
Like, Oh my gosh, why are you doing it that way? Yeah. And does it, does it matter? Yeah, no, but it's, I think it's, it's, I don't know if it was, I don't know if it would be like, it's a, if you're like a control freak, I know that because it's, or it's just the fact that you, you're just learning somebody. You know, it's so funny because isn't it usually the way like at the beginning of a relationship, you're like, Oh, it's so cute when they do that.
And then you're like married and you're like, Oh my gosh, why do you do that? You know, like, you know, I was about to get an example and I was like, I'm not going to uncover either one of us like that, but there's things that you and I have done that to each other and just were like, babe, do you realize you? Like when I refold the shirts that you used to fold. Yeah. And now what do I do? You don't fold them. I just hand them to you. Just go, here you go, babe.
You know, whether I'm folding the laundry by myself or you're always, I'm going to absolutely brag you're very gracious and precious to help fold with me, but that does give you an incentive because it's like, if I want my shirt, shirts fold right, I'm going to just have to do it myself. And that's okay. It is okay. It's, you know, it, and I think that that would be part of it too. What, what is, I was speaking to one of my absolute besties, one of our sisters tonight, right?
And one of the things that she always, she always leaves me better than when she found me. And today she just, Dina, just, you know, when we're going to disagree and I go, yeah, we are. And she goes, so let's just major on the majors and minor on the minors. If we major on the majors, the minors aren't going to be that big. That's right. And I'm like, come on. And I think that that's another one of the, the rules of engagement.
You know, like you said, just our other favorite, you know, line that my brother, Randy used to say all the time that I took. And then I started hearing it from other people over time, you know, in light of eternity, what is this going to matter? Right. I mean, if you want to have serious gravity to some of these things, what is it going to matter?
And so it's like, we have a little page of scriptures that talk about the gravity of, of the rules of engagement, rules of engagement when it comes to arguing and having peace. And so here's like, what is it? Hebrews 12, 14, strive for peace with everyone. And for the, it's sideways, babe. It's okay. And for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. Okay. Let me do that one again. Let's just say the first, what is it? Five words, strive for peace with everyone.
Yeah. Shrive for peace with everyone. Yeah. Period. Yeah. Do your best to be peaceful. Be a peacemaker. Be a peacemaker for they are the children of God. Right. Bless are the peacemakers. That's Matthew five, nine. You got Proverbs 16, seven. When a man's ways please the Lord, he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him. When you're walking in the fruit of the spirit, we've talked about this in the past.
Love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, faithfulness, self-control, self-control of the tongue. If nothing else, self-control of your emotions. Yeah. You know, um, Philippians. Philippians four, eight is what we said, right? Yeah. Eight, nine.
Finally, brothers, what are, and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things and the God of peace will be with you. And then two more, right? Second Corinthians 13, 11. Finally brothers and sisters rejoice, aim for restoration.
I mean, we read that one. That was like just aim for restoration. Yeah. Comfort one another, agree with one another, live in peace and for the God of love and peace will be with you. And then Romans 12, 18, if possible, so far as it depends on you, this is you being accountable. This is you owning your responsibility. Well, they made me mad. Nope. Nope. You let yourself become mad, you know, if possible, so far as it depends on you live peacefully with all.
I want to go back real quick where it talks about aim for restoration, comfort one another, agree with one another, live in peace and for the and the God of love and peace will be with you. So where it talks about agree with one another, that seems contradictory, right? There's times where you can say, and I know that this almost seems antagonizing to people, but I don't believe it's true. We are going to, we're going to agree to disagree.
We're going to, we're going to put a pin in this and this is where we're going to come to our crossroad, but I'm going to honor you. It's almost one of those we're going to agree to disagree. That's a really good way of basically saying we're going to stop right there because we're not going to go any further. If we try to go any further, it's going to cause destruction. And I would much rather be peaceful with you and have this as opposed to creating a monster of a wedge.
And I, and I think that, I mean, to me, when I read that the agreement is, is kind of back to the major on the major. Yeah. You're going to agree on the major thing. Yes. You know, when, when you're in a relationship, you know, when you're in a marriage, when you're Christian, when you're spirit filled, you know, when you're in a partnership of any type, you're going to agree on the major thing. Right.
You know, you're, you're always going to be in agreement with, with things, you know, with, with the big ones, you know, it's, but it's the smaller ones of, you know, how do we go about this? You know, do we take root A or do we take root B? Right. And like, those are the things you're going to disagree with. You know, again, you look at something like a team or you look at a church.
Yes. You know, everybody agrees that, you know, the Holy Spirit is the way that, that Jesus Christ is the only way to the father. Yeah. You know, you have these core beliefs, you believe the word of God and what it says. Right. These are your agreements that you all agree on. Right. But sometimes it's, it's the small things that you disagree with that it's like, well, we're going to agree to disagree.
Yeah. You know, like I know some people, the, like the baptism, it's like, you know, some people say sprinkling, some people say immersing. Yeah. It's, you know, does it, I'm going to say it doesn't really matter. Right. You know, your music is too loud. Your music's too quiet. Right. Your carpet is this color. The carpet should be that color. It's, it's, it's understanding. It's also, I think, understanding the rules of engagement of your enemy.
Yeah. You know, because he's here to still kill and destroy. Yeah. So if you're, if you're walking in the spirit of, I want to restore, I want to bring comfort. Yeah. I'm trying to bring peace. I want to have a greater understanding. I may not be able to completely reach you.
I may not even understand the, the, the gravity of this, but I want to be at least to have a little bit more knowledge, you know, as opposed to I'm cutting you off this cancel culture crap, you know, I don't completely agree with you. So I'm cutting you off. Yeah. And, and that's, that's, that's the enemy. Yeah. He's here to still kill and destroy, still your relationships, kill your dreams, you know, the unity, still unity. Destroy the unity, you know?
And so it's like, think about what is, what is transpiring in front of you? What's going on in front of you? You know, what the careful, what your mouth says, you know, because those words you can't take back, you know, we can absolutely ask for forgiveness because Lord knows, you say dumb things. Yes. I've said, I've just recently said several dumb things, you know, and it's just, but it's like, I'm father, forgive me. And can we come at peace? You know, can we restore this?
Can we, can we walk? Can I walk with you? I want to comfort you in this area, you know, and it's, it's just, I think if we come with a heart of, if we disagree on something, can we, is there something that we're trying to restore? What is our goal? Yeah. What's ultimately your goal? Are you trying to be right? If you're just trying to one up the person or trying to teach them a lesson, it's not the best of heart. No, it's not. You know, I, what, I think that guard your heart, watch your heart.
You know, why are you, what are you, are you fighting for justice? Yeah. Or are you just fighting for your way? Yep. Boom, babe. Yeah. Um, and so that kind of brings up, uh, I know it was recently asked of us over the weekend, um, huge shout out to our listeners who ask us questions. We appreciate it. Appreciate y'all. Um, how do you fight fair? How do you fight fair? Yeah. Yes. You know, and, and it, it did it, you know, it's, it's a good question.
Yeah. Um, it was, it was asked, you know, by somebody that is giving serious contemplation to marriage. Yeah. Um, and how do you do that? You know, how do you have these disagreements? How do you have these discussions without blowing things up? Yeah. Especially if you do come from a family that fighting is their national pastime. Right. Right. Or, or, you know, or again, not even fighting was, was their thing, but healthy confrontation was not practiced. Correct. You know, I like that.
That's a good way of saying it. Yeah. That's a good way of saying it. Yeah. Um, I think, um, as far as the fighting fairly stay on topic. Yes. Okay. I think we said that earlier, just stay on topic. Um, but that being said, there's been times where things have come up, right? And it triggers something. Yes. And it's triggered by something that's a little bit more deep rooted. And there's times where we're going to, again, we'll use us as an example because that's the only example we can use.
Um, really is there's been times in the past where, you know, like a lot of times we say, well, my ex used to do that or I, whatever. If you are to say that, and it is a real thing, it is a real thing. You, I think the way you go about it, the way you communicate it, you're like, oh my gosh, you're just like my ex. See now that's not fighting fair. Not fighting fair because, um, yeah, the person you're with now is not the person you were with then.
When you say, and I'm touching your leg for the listeners and I'm looking you on the eye and saying, babe, when you did that, that took me back to this and such place. And usually, and we say this out of experience, your responses, babe, I am so sorry. I did not mean to do that. And so what it does is it doesn't, it doesn't make you my enemy. It just says the action. You're not the person. The action that you just did reflected and reminded me of something.
And so if you could maybe not do that, it would be incredibly helpful in healing to my heart. And you've done that for me. I've done that for you. But I think it's, you know, when you're, you go into a compare mode, not always a good idea. It's, it's, um, if you see a pattern in the same person and you don't use, that's what we talked about too. Don't use absolutes. We say this to our children. You know, you always know, we don't always, but everyone. Yeah, no, not everyone.
You know, it's like, don't do, don't use absolutes. You know, again, do what's in front of you right there. Just you're, you're, I'm having a conversation with you. I'm not trying to fight the whole British army, whatever's going on right here. You know, you are what's going on in front of me. This is the problem, you know, or yes, you folding my folding your shirts drives me crazy after I've already folded it.
Sometimes if we just say it out loud, it, it diffuses and it's so funny because when we were talking to our friend about this and she had asked us about it, we had, I think we actually brought this, this example in and she says, Oh my gosh, yeah. Like if you say it out loud and then you hear what you say and you go, Oh my God, that was stupid. That was so dumb. Why was I upset about that? Because all of a sudden it's not playing around in your head.
It's not kicking around and the enemy is not using it as ammunition anymore. So it helps you defuse it. There's other times where I would also say as far as roles of engagement, um, me personally, I, as much as I am a confrontational person, if you start yelling at me or if you start belittling me, if you start, you know, you, you, you, blah, blah, blah, I will shut down on you immediately. Yeah. You know, um, it's you, you want to say, okay, listen, I can't have you talking to me like that.
Right. I, I, I want to, I want to keep our tones calm. And if it starts getting to bear, it's too heated. We need to back up because then your emotions start taking in kicking in. God has given us these amazing emotions. We're grateful for those emotions, but if you let those emotions override the scriptures that we just talked about, the peace, the self control, the fruits of the spirit, then it's going to, it's going to end badly. It is.
And, and again, I mean, if, if you have to, if you have to resort to belittling and personal attacks to, to try and make your point, I, I feel that your point wasn't really that strong to begin with. Yeah. Um, or even if it was, it's no longer valid in my mind. Right. Yeah. Right. You've, you've personally come after my, after me at that point. Yeah. Um, and I know, uh, I also know there's a saying out there, you know, don't go to bed angry, but sometimes you need to.
Yeah. Um, you know, again, anger is not a bad thing. It's, it's what do you do with the anger? Right. You know? Right. And, and, you know, I, I like how you said that earlier when, you know, when things get too heated, sometimes you have to step away.
And sometimes when there's a disagreement, especially if it gets heated, you know, if it's something that you two are passionate about, if we're really passionate about this and we're getting worked up and not even worked up against each other, just worked up. Yeah. Sometimes you do need to just take that step back and say, you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to lower the temperature a bit. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to step back.
I'm going to be quiet, collect my thoughts and, and then we'll come back at this when, when we're a little calmed down. Right. You know, or, or when I realize, you know, again, I've just said it out loud and all of a sudden that didn't make sense at all. Why am I, why am I bugged out about this? Right. You know? So, so I think, you know, again, I'm.
That, that's my thing is, you know, yeah, sometimes you do need to take a, take a step away from, from a disagreement from some of these discussions. Yeah. Another thing I would like to include in that is that when you are having these discussions, don't make the mistake of assuming you know the other person's thoughts. I love that. I love that. Yeah, because I heard about that once in a, in a training actually at work.
Yeah. You know, when you are having these conversations and all, you don't want to say in your mind, well, I have to say this because this is what they're thinking or this is what they meant when they said this. Right. And all of a sudden, the next thing you know, you're inventing half of the conversation. Wow. And half of something that they weren't either, either weren't aware that they said, or that's completely not what they meant. Wow. I love that.
Yeah. And I think also we do have to remember just the intentions of people. Yes. Again, my amazing friend, she's, she's always so incredibly eloquent when I'm asking her going, I need to think this thought through and I'm trying to, how do, how do I get it from my brain or even from my heart out of my mouth? And then I'll literally almost like just like word vomit on her and she goes, Oh, okay.
And it's almost like she's building this block and she builds this beautiful castle out of what it was that I just said. And I'm like, yes, that's exactly what I meant. And so sometimes we have to give the person the benefit of the doubt. I think that that's where think of things that are honorable and true. You know, the person that you're having the argument with, I've got history with you. Yeah. You know, that this might've been a misstep or a miscommunication or you know what?
I was just like really angry back here and now I'm saying it now. And now it's gotten just really weird and just gross. And it's like, what is the heart of the person? What is the history with this person? You know, again, like we talk about if there's hurtful history, okay. You know, there might be a season where you say, hmm, we really need to either if it's a marriage, we need some help.
If it's a relationship or friendship and if it's a continual history of hurt or whatever, even in the marriage, unfortunately, there might be a time where you say, you know what? This is no longer healthy. And if, especially if they're not willing to, let's come and let's help restore this together. So I think that those are also the things that we have to take into account because in the word of God, it talks about how only God knows our hearts, you know?
And I know out of the abundance of our mouth, the heart speaks, but a wounded heart says things that are wounded. They're going to wound. It's going to be hurt, hurt people, hurt people. You know, there's all of those cliches, but they're not really there. They're genuine. They're based in truth. They're based in truth. And so it's like, what are you saying right now that, you know, can I filter through it so that way?
Okay. Well, that seems really shallow, but underneath the surface, there might be something that really needs to be taken care of, you know, dive into. But we need to be willing to listen. We need to be willing to step back, not insist our way. We talk about the love chapter, you know, it's not boastful. It's not proud. It doesn't demand its own way, you know, all of these practical things. It doesn't keep a track or it doesn't keep a record of wrongs.
It doesn't keep a record of wrongs, you know? And that's so hard for us as humans, but here's, here's Jesus. This guy's coming up to Jesus saying, how many times do I have to forgive this guy? He's like 70 times seven. No, like 70 times seven, like, like just once. No, like 70 times seven every day. Yeah. Like, like all the time, every day, you need to live a life of forgiveness and know that God will deal with, you know, and if he needs to cut something off, he cuts something off.
If he wants to restore and heal, he'll restore and heal. But that's, this is where we genuinely, we have to allow ourselves to be so vulnerable to God when we're trying to be vulnerable to the person in front of us and say, I'm for you. I'm not against you, but this is something right now that I'm, that we're needing to talk about because it seems to X, Y, Z, it bugs me or I'm having a problem with.
And so I think if we do our best to say what we can in the best way we can, we have a better shot of fighting fairly as opposed to just flying off the handle, thinking the worst and then just cutting everything off and just, you know, that's destructive. You know, where God wants unity. Yeah. And I think, you know, I'll kind of leave with this is, you know, it's, it's not a bad thing to ask for help. No, not at all.
Even, even external help, you know, because, you know, I know that, you know, sometimes it almost gets, it almost feels like it's too much like, oh no, we can't do this. Right. You know, we need help, you know, and it's not a sign of weakness to ask for help. No. And the people that matter aren't going to care and aren't going to hold it against you that you're getting help.
Right. You know, I like that, you know, and I kind of say that in relationships and also kind of personal life because, you know, it happens. It happens. So, so yeah, I think unless you have anything else. No, I liked this topic. This was a good one. Yeah. Fight fair. Remember you're on the same team. Yeah. Um, keep it, keep it topical. Keep it current. Yeah. You know, you know, and then just, and just be at peace, you know, just know that just look them in the eye and say, I am for you.
I am not against you, you know, you might disagree in the one thing, but it doesn't mean that you're cutting the whole thing. You know, that I, I think that that's one of the things I want to always, I want to leave with people is when we have a great disagreements, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I don't like you. Doesn't mean that I don't value you. I don't value you. You know, it doesn't mean that I don't value your opinion.
You know, too many times people say, well, if, well, if we don't agree on everything, then we can't. And it's like, that's not, that's not even the way that God designed us. You know, again, major on the major minor on the minors honor and rejoice and, and celebrate the differences because, and just learn from each other, gleam from each other. You know, even if it's something like, no, man, I'm completely right in this.
Well, take some time, take some time and just listen, because even if you continue to disagree after the person, at least you listen, you took the time to hear their hearts. And, and that, that in itself will continue to keep that bridge built between you and that other person. Yeah. I like it. I do too babe. It was a good week. It was a good week. All right. You guys have the best week. You too. Yes. Why did I say you too? I did. Yeah. Enjoy the journey folks. Again, you're a little speech.
Yup. I am.