Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Upfront and Undivided with Luke and Dina. Hey, babe. Hey, babe. How's it going? It's good. I was in the middle of yawning. You were fine, and then I hit record. Yeah. And then I started dancing, and you were like, oh, it's a good time for a yawn. Yes. I was yawning, and I was trying not to burp at the same time. Oh, that's awesome.
It was like you open your mouth. ah yeah and then like a burp is about to come out and i'm like no we can't be burping like hey it's real it's real life this marriage this is what happens yeah it's what happens it is what happens how are you doing i'm good how are you good i am watching you like You are not down here as much. I am not. And so it's like you're almost re... Yes. Yes. I'm re -situating my nest. It's like getting yourself re -familiar. Re -familiar?
Yeah. Is that a word? I mean, familiarize yourself again, re -familiarize yourself. Okay, cool. Re -familiarize, yes. So it's like watching you do all these things and then your segregated gummies that you literally break them up in different flavors and colors. I do. You're so funny. I do that with my candies. You do that with your candies. You're so funny. It's not good to do that in real life. But you can do that with your candies. And you and our daughter both do this.
You guys are funny. Because for the most part, different candy colors taste different, and you don't want to mix your flavors. See, I fly by the seat of my pants. I just pop it in my mouth, and sometimes it's two or three at a time, and then I invent my own flavor. Listen, it's like a fruit bowl. Well, it's like, I don't know what you called them when you were growing up, but it was like when I was growing up, when you'd go to the soda fountain and you would get a little
bit of every flavor. Oh, suicides. Yeah. Okay. That's what I called them, too. Is that what you guys called them? If that triggered anybody, we apologize. The drinks, that's what you do. You just do, do, do, do, do. I think the reason why they call it, because it's almost like playing roulette with your taste buds. Yes. Because it's like, what are you doing? At any given time, this could go really, really south really fast. See, and all of a sudden, I remembered a story
from college that's... Not anything like what we want to talk about. Oh, okay. I mean, it was sort of along those lines. Yeah. Apparently, I never went to one, but I heard stories of what they called trash can parties. Oh, yes. My brothers have told me this. Okay. Where you, to get into the party, you bring a bottle, and then on your way in the door, you dump the bottle in the can. And then throughout the night, everybody just... shares this massive mixed drink. So in that space,
I've never been to one, never done one. Again, I was always the designated driver in my world. And so it's like, when I started coming to church and during like hallelujah nights, Halloweens, things like that, they would do the chili dumps. And in my brain, My renewed, reformed, restored back to Jesus brain, I would every time go, this is like one of those trash can dumps. And if you get somebody that does not know what they're doing and they get something and it's not good,
it is going to absolutely. Yeah. It's going to do very bad things. So one of the guys that lived in my house, he was notorious. He loved cinnamon. Oh, no. So he would bring like a bottle of like cinnamon schnapps or whatever. Oh, no. What? And they said for the entire night, all you could taste was that cinnamon. Yeah. Well, I mean, if anybody was making out and they found forever love, you know, they had fresh breath. Yeah. That's disgusting. Yeah. Ew, that's disgusting.
Yeah. Yuck. No. Yeah. No, I'm good. I'm good. So, yeah. Candies are segregated for that reason. I was like, what do you think got us on that subject? Candies. Candies. That was it. Because I do it with gummy bears. I do it with Skittles. You do it with your M &M's. M &M's not so much. See, and M &M's don't taste different, but it's because of the colors. I do them with Smarties. Yes. Yep. Because Smarties don't have a different flavor. I think they do. I think they do. We
are going to lovingly agree to disagree. Dear world, this is real marriage. It is. It's like there have been times where Gabriel's looked at us and like, really? Is this what married couples talk about? Yes, this is what married couples talk about. This is exactly what they talk about. We talk about absolutely nothing and everything all at one time. And the deep, deep, deep secrets of life and the most shallow
things on the planet. And we'll go from these kind of conversations right into like a big budget question of, you know, hey, here's a big purchase coming up and how do we want to do this? And then all of a sudden we're redecorating. The landscaping. Yes. For a project that won't happen for at least five to 10 years. Like that part, right? Like that part and things of that nature.
And it is, it's, it's that whole, I don't know, maybe that's a whole topic in itself because it's like when you, because what was it last week? No. Two podcasts ago, where I'm looking at your notes, where it says know your person, right? How do you get to know your person except that you ask these silly, silly, literally mundane questions, and then you go into the deep recesses of their brain, and it's like it already helps. In my brain, it's like it already shows me kind
of a map. to how to communicate with you better based off of maybe some of the ways that you think some of your preferences the way that you process stuff when I know where you are and kind of like even knowing your mood you know or hey not going to talk to you probably for a good solid five ten minutes when you walk in the door give you a chance to just breathe but like not not talk to you just not talk to you anything incredibly important right unless there's an
emergency right but even then it's like okay are you do do i have your attention are you okay you know kind of thing and i think um when you have just the silly like the silly conversations or those connections like yeah because what was it was it today This morning? Last night. When our beautiful girl comes home. It was last night when she came home. She went out to dinner with some friends. But it was like, I don't know if we talked about it after she left last night
or when we woke up this morning. That's what I'm trying to say. Like, it's that simple. It's
like, I get to spend the rest of my life. hanging out with my best friend and it's like yes we are romantically into each other like and yes we we think the other person is super cute and super pretty right and and like you make my heart pound and all of the fun things that go with it but then like you can make me laugh probably faster than anybody you could also I want to say like you could probably make me madder faster
than anybody, but you don't. But because you know my buttons, because you know certain things about me, you do your best to be very conscious and aware of those things and try not to get me upset. So it's like I know how to get you upset, but instead of... getting you upset, I push the button right next to it to get you ramped up. To get me ramped up. Because you're really good at it. I need you to get fiery for this subject. Here we go. Let's go. It is true. It
is true. I had to hold my hands together telling all... Hey, we've got videos. We've got cameras in the... Cameras, not videos. Yeah, we've got cameras in the room. But they're not hooked up yet. But... They are. We just need to finish. I need to finalize some testing and such. There we go. The same as the camera in the other room for a certain individual that wants to start a YouTube channel. How cool is that? That is cool. It's so cool. I'm slightly frustrated and
slightly excited because of Tyler. Putting that. And I will call him out. I will call him out. Yes. We just have Tyler over here and then he'd be like, I'll ramp it up again and getting them all stoked. I mean, I am excited. He's excited. He just knows that sometimes things work at a different schedule. And that's good. I appreciate he understands that. That's good for him to know these things too. But anyway, but yes, you are
able to push that button. And that's why I was like, my hands literally folded because I was like, yes, you are very good at that. Very good
at. ramping me up but ramping me up for a good cause as opposed to um trying to anger me you're trying to help me process and walk through it and get to the other side yeah so but yeah it's good you are looking around now and just all you're i'm sorry i got you distracted you did no you you did but didn't i apologize um yeah no it is it's it's weird it's And it's like I'm going to bounce back to that for a second. Yeah. I mean, for what was it? Almost four years. I
was in this room for almost every day. Yeah. You know. Yeah. At minimum, five days a week, I was in this room for eight to ten hours a day. Yes. And all of a sudden, it's like. You've been called back to work on a full -time basis into the office. Back into the office. Yeah. And so now it is. It's like. I maybe spend an hour or two in here a week. And this is kind of, this is your happy place. This is my happy place.
And I do believe that this has been part of your, I'm a little frustrated and this is just what is going on with me. And I'm trying to figure out the next step in life. And it's like, the answer is in here. The answer is in here. It's in here. It's good. The answer is in my cave. And it's a beautiful cave. It is a beautiful cave. And people are about to see your beautiful cave. Yes, they will. It's going to be so good. Yes. Okay, babe. So we have... We have a couple
of things on the table. We have a mixed concoction. Yeah. To go back to our trash can. That's funny. It's like we didn't even try to tie that in. Nope. Wow. Nope. So we have a mixed concoction of a couple of different... Questions that have been placed on the table. Oh, I didn't. Slash scenario. Oh, I did not put my phone on silent. Slash scenarios, slash topics of conversations that we have kind of fleshed out, but not. And
so it's. So if it sounds like we're kind of jumping, we're going to do our best to kind of knock out one topic at a time. But there might be about two or three different things that we want to kind of just bring to the table today. Have our listeners chew on some stuff. Yeah. And then leave them for really good stuff for next time. Yeah. In the meantime, hey, we possibly have a new listener. Yes, we do. I'm excited. I'm excited, too. Do you want to say hi to our listener
in case they're listening? I'm not going to call out name. Yeah. But I will because, I mean, people that pay attention. So we got an opportunity to spend about five, six hours with a gentleman recently because I got a new tattoo. New tattoo slash cover up. Yeah. Pretty stoked about it. Pretty excited. It looks amazing. It's legit. For those of you that follow us on social media, you've seen, you've sort of seen, I mean, I love your description of that. Do it justice. So my
artist, he's a believer. Yeah. And so we got to share with him. He got to share with us. I mean, the beauty of having undivided attention for, you know. five hours or so. Truly. Um, it was really great. Um, so yeah, so we, we shot him our information and so he like right on the spot, he's like, all right, I'm going to go ahead and follow you guys. Yeah. And we, and I, um, I brought our book, uh, taking your vitamins. And then I also brought our devotional, uh, enjoying
the journey and handed them to him. And he's like, these are for me to keep. He was so. Yeah, he was really cool. Humble and just absolutely precious. And this guy knows the word. Yeah, he does. I think the thing that was so beautiful about him is you gave him a description. Number one, you took the pictures of your tattoo. This tattoo was a gift from another amazing friend of ours. She had seen some things. She was obeying
God in this journey and what she saw. And then she's like, I need you to go find out roughly how much this is going to cost you. And then I need you to let me know and please do not argue. And so like within 10 minutes after we gave her the initial, because this is going to be about three different sessions, I think is what we determined. But three different sessions. And she covered the first session. I'm going to say like the first session and a half and, um, which
that in itself was a treasure. But, and so we even got a chance to tell this guy the story about like all of the things because he's six years into his relationship with God and his walk with Jesus. And, and we've just got to let people know that he is very much real. Like, like, He is not a figment of your imagination. He's not just a character in a book. He's not like this religious kind of situation. Like he
is a real person, a real deity. And he uses his people, if we listen, to do the things that need to happen so other people can come to know him too. And it was just... he has a similar kind of a similar testimony like you do, just like there was a friend that just loved him enough to just kind of share Jesus. And then he went to shut his friend up because he was like, whatever, I don't really believe in all of this. And then he encountered the one true living God and has
never been the same. And so it was just, he's refreshing. But I say all that to say that you have some, you had some tattoos on your arm from your previous world, from paganism and also from your college years, and things that you basically gave your allegiance to unknowingly of what you were attaching to. And then here comes God and says, hey, let's go ahead and cut some ties here and do all of the things. And then you're like, I want this covered. This is roughly what I'm
thinking. Then he comes up. And I shot him a couple of ideas that I had seen online. Like, hey, here's some ideas that I've seen in pictures. Yeah. Something like this. And he came up with the most extraordinary picture, a tattoo. And you didn't even, like you were like, yeah. And he's like, you want to change anything? No. Nope. Perfect. Absolutely perfect. And it came out just. Yeah. Like I, I walked away just long enough to go get Sebastian and come back and I didn't
get it. I was half, I saw half of your tattoo. Yeah. And by the time that we came back to come pick you up, it's like, it's finished. Not completely, but it's almost 95 % finished. It's not like finished. I, and I walked in, you saw my face and I just, my jaw dropped. It was, it was. It was not just stunning. It was powerful. It was anointed. You could feel the presence of God. It was neat. I love what Gabri said when she first saw it in person. She's like, I feel like
the lion's about to jump off your skin. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And again, the fact that it's not done yet. It's not even finished completely. So for those that haven't seen it on social media yet, it looks kind of almost like a medieval armor. So it's armor of God. Yeah. And it's going from, it's on my left upper arm. It's basically going from my elbow area all the way up to the top of my shoulder. And then eventually it's going to cover the left half of my chest. Yeah.
Because you have another tattoo that needs to be covered. Yeah. And it's like, and this guy is stoked. Yeah, he is. And he's phenomenal. He's absolutely phenomenal. So, hey, thanks again for doing this for us. Welcome to our podcast. Okay, babe. Tell me what topic do you want to dive into first? You know, I was going to talk about the one, and then I think it was. I think you're right. I think we talked about it in our last episode. Okay. And for those of you thinking,
like, why are you talking cryptic? It was a conversation that we had had about how do we... ask your spouse to do something, you know, like, Hey, I've got a task that I want, you know, Hey babe, can you take care of this for me? Right. You know, it's like, how do you go about asking? And for the most part, it seems pretty simple if you ask somebody, but again, it's, you know, what, what tone are you using? What words are you using? Do you have their full attention? Do you have
their full attention? You know, because. I've heard stories where that happens and we've experienced that. I mean, we've done that. Yeah. It's like, I'm sorry, babe. Were you talking to me? Yeah. Yeah. Or it's like, I'm going to go ahead. Oh, I think we're done talking. So I'm going to leave the room and halfway across the house. What? Yeah. What? Yeah, sorry. It's true. Yeah, it is true. It's true. And, you know, there are times where. I don't have the best hearing. Correct.
You know, so sometimes that can get in the way. Yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah. And that's, so that was one of the things we were going to talk about, but it's like, nope, I think we did. I think we talked about it. Yeah. Yeah. If we didn't really fully flesh it out, well, we just kind of did in a couple minutes. Yeah. I mean, make sure you have your spouse's attention. Make sure that you are making your request very evident. Don't bark in order. Ask respectfully, politely.
I mean, I would say just common courtesy goes a massive long way. I also think an attitude of gratitude and appreciation. Because sometimes when we do ask and request something of somebody, depending on what their bandwidth is in that moment, they may feel like, okay, wait, I'm not your slave or I'm not your person. I'm just here to just... I'm your money roll, right? All the things, just like sugar daddy. I mean, you are my sugar and you are not my daddy. Not my daddy.
But it's like, but it's those spaces and places, right, that I think sometimes the reason why people might not, obviously the not being able to hear things, but I think sometimes And when we don't get a response out of a person, you might want to double check on their headspace. Where are they? Are they okay? Do they have the energy? Do they have the bandwidth for that? Do they feel like they're being appreciated or do they feel like they're being kind of used
and abused a little bit? Like, hey, babe. I'm a live -in handyman. Live -in handyman. Or you could come home and you'd be like. okay, that laundry basket has been full this whole time now. Like, why haven't you done anything to it? You're, you're a stay at home wife and mom. Like, what else do you have to do? And it's like, like actually could do a lot, but like, you know what I mean? Like, so I think when we make a point of saying. how's your day? Yeah. As opposed to
what'd you do today? Yeah. You know, like, I mean, that kind of rolls off my tongue sometimes like, Hey, how was your day, babe? Or, or it's the opposite. And I'll take you by the hand and I'll say, look what I did today. Do you want to see all the chores that I got and all this stuff that I did? And it, and it's, it's a real thing. And I, I think, I think having those kinds of conversations actually helps even more so because. it's not necessarily that you don't
want to do something for your loved one. I think when we get to that space where we start murmuring and we start kind of like under our breath or, or maybe we just don't move as fast because like, whatever, I'll just get to it when I get to it. Yeah. You might want to check yourself because that, that that's that there's a deeper something there. And I think, I think also it's like, If you have something in your mind, if you want to accomplish something, and it's like, in my
mind, this is how it needs to get done. And then it's like, well, I asked you to do this for me, and you didn't do it the way I wanted it to. It's like, well, you didn't tell me how you wanted it to be done. It'd be like if you handed me a stack of pictures and said, babe, hang these. Oh, gosh, no. You saw the fear across my face. No, no, no. I will not be doing that. In your own office, baby, you do whatever you want to. Oh, shoot. Oh, that was funny to watch her face
morph like that. It did. Oh, hi. I was just kidding. That was sheer terror. But it's like, I heard a story about that. I heard a story about that from somebody that they were like, yeah, you know, I asked them to hang pictures for me while I was at work. Yes. And I came back and yes, they were hung, but not the way I wanted it. And see, and then that frustrates the person. Were you clear? And that's how I asked. I was like, did you tell them how you wanted to be
hung? Yes. No. See, it's got to be a twofold thing. And then when you do that to your person enough times. It's going to be like, well, even if you tell them how to do it, you're going to paralyze them because all of a sudden they're going to be like, well, even if I did do it, it's not going to be up to your standard. It's not going to be right. And that's frustrating. That's frustrating. I mean, we can do that even to our children, things of that nature. It's
like, that's frustrating. So we've got to be clear. Hey, babe. Could you help me? And see, and I was about to say that. In this, you know. Let's do this together. Can we do this together? I would love, which genuinely, I would love your input. I love your input. I also know that I can exasperate you by standing there and like tweaking and then tweaking again and tweaking again. And it's almost like you going, dear God, just put a nail in the wall. I've, I've seen
this one too. I'll, I'll kind of call you out. I mean, it's kind of calling us out, but you know, it's like when we're rearranging furniture and it's like, you are really good at visualizing where furniture is in a room and you can spatial awareness. Yeah. And it's like, we'll get halfway moving a couch. And then all of a sudden you go through the 15 ,000 permutations. And I'm like, just put it somewhere, babe. I don't care
where it is. Just put it somewhere. Not in the middle of a walkway, but just put it somewhere. Yes. You want it against the wall? You want it three feet away from the wall. I don't care. Just put it somewhere. Yes. As long as we can sit in it and use it. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's true. It's true. It is true. But it's being patient with your person. It's giving them a license to come in and just do and be. But at the same time, what? Why are you looking at me crazy?
No, because all of a sudden I started like, ooh, what if we change the furniture upstairs? I'm like, stop it. Baby, do you realize how long it took us to figure out where to put that furniture? See, in my mind, I was like, well, we just showed up and we just put it there. Tell them, Sparks. That was not true. It took us probably a good three or four moves of things. It did. It took us a second. Okay. But it's fine. See, and I don't remember. I don't remember any of that.
Yeah. In my mind, when we moved into this house, that's where the furniture went. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. No. It's because I'm standing there staring holes into different spaces and places going, will that fit? Will that? Does that look good? Okay, I'm going to walk away. Just let me know when you want to move something. That's it. That's it. The lamps start moving. Yes. Yes. You don't realize how strong your wife is until she wants to move furniture. When you're not
around. You know what I'm saying? How did you? Our daughter does that. It's like I walk into her room going, how did you do this? So anyway. Okay. So apparently we got to flesh out a little bit more. That's good. That's good. That's good. Okay. What's the other thing? Topic number two. Topic. What? What is up with you? Sparks is being very vocal. She wants to be on the podcast. Yep. Okay. Everybody heard you. Good girl. He's a good girl. Yeah, mama's a good girl. Okay. Number
two. Did you want to do what I posted on? Our socials. Yeah, we'll talk about that for a bit. Okay, cool. Again, for those that follow social media. Yeah. For those that don't, this is like the second time I've said for those that don't follow on social media. So you might want to. So you might want to follow us on social media. So we have changed our socials on Instagram. We are now firm footing. Yes. As opposed to upfront
and undivided. Yes. And so I know that that's going to be maybe a little bit of not so much
a hiccup, but maybe just a lot to. kind of take in a little bit but firm footing uh dot coach is uh it that is our coaching site did you want me to turn it back to up front and no no no because just like in my mind i'm like but does that actually change like the account name or the display name it does okay yeah so if they're trying to look for us it would be under firm footing dot com or dot coach um unfortunately i am the only name under it because instagram is funny and they're
like They don't, unless we're a professional kind of situation. I don't know how all that works. I'm still learning. We'll check it out. Yeah. I'm still learning social media, guys, so just bear with us. We are not experts. We are not experts in the least. Nope. But we're trying. And then if you go to our Facebook, Luke's not on Facebook. Nope. He is not on Facebook at all. But I am, and it is Dina Wants. It's just simple. Just Dina Wants is where you'll
find us. And any and all of the things that are on our Instagram account, nine out of ten times are on our Facebook, are on my Facebook. And so I think the reason why we just don't do social media quite as frequently, number one, it's just not. Not something that we're privy to. We're not as versed in it. I was going to say, privy is not. Yeah, not as versed. It's not the right word, I know. It's fine. Thanks, Google. We're not as versed in it. And we keep trying to get
our daughter to do our accounts. But she's got this job. And she's doing classes now in school. I think at the end of the day, we just need to post more. Even if it's just randomness. I think so. Not randomness. I mean, meaningful stuff. But just really be more intentional. Yeah, I like that word. That's a good word. That's a good word. Okay, so I just got convicted. It's fine. It's good. All right. So look for us. That's
where we are. So anyway, on our socials, I posted a conversation that Luke and I had while we were, I was taking care of a client and you were at work. And this thought came across my mind. And so I text it to you and it made. It may sound a little choppy. I'm going to try to just give you guys the highlights of it. But basically, I was in the middle of cleaning our little guys there. So like we're listening to worship music.
And I don't remember what the song was, but it triggered a conversation that you and I had had years upon years ago. And I thought it was interesting that the thought came back to my mind again. And I was like, do you think that sometimes the reason for men to not be able to capture the fullness of God's love, and it's not God's part, but I guess what I should have said is capture the fullness of God, like just that relationship with God, is because they are being called the
bride of Christ. And that isn't something quite that you guys like. compute and it's like it it like being a bride yeah as far as a man being a bride isn't something that just that's that's you don't know what that means like and um and then i went to the scripture where it says uh that men are to love their wives as christ loves the church you are a representation of christ on the earth which i am too but it's like and i'm a representation of the church Is that kind
of my interpretation? And so I was in the space of when you as a man are called a bride and guys, please don't come after us after our theology. We're very much aware that we are the church, that Christ is coming back for his church and she's not going to have spot or wrinkle. But we also know that that is. a metaphor of what
it is of, of how we should be seeing. Because, because I was, it was like, before I get into the response, you know, I did after afterwards, I kind of looked it up and it was like, there was just, it was, there, there were a lot of references to, yes, there's a lot of references to the bride of Christ. There's a lot of references to, of, of that. And, you know, a bride that is, you know, clean and spotless without mark
and stuff like that. Yeah. And it's always, it, with what I was reading, it always was the church. Yeah. Is the bride. Right. To, to Christ. And as far as like the clean without marker, ring marker or stuff, you know, the, like the language I was reading, it was, Christ is preparing his bride to make sure that she is ready for him.
And it was this really cool picture that I saw of, again, because they made sure, back in the day, they made sure that... when you were going to sacrifice a lamb or something to the temple, this is a burnt offering to God, it had to be a clean animal. It had to be a clean animal. It had to be no defects, so on and so forth.
And so it was like there were things that the shepherds and such would do to make sure that those were clean animals, that those animals were taken care of, that those animals were,
you know. cleaned and bathed properly they were set apart they were set apart they you know there was the the story that i've heard a couple times of you know they would pour oil on the heads of of the lambs and of the sheep and it wasn't you know yes pouring oil on a head is is symbolic of of anointing and it is an act of anointing but it was also to make sure that when the sheep got into like a bramble or something like that their heads wouldn't get stuck right you know
so it was like a practical thing as well and so it's like it also kept the bugs and the things from going in their noses and around their eyes to keep them from getting irritated and infections yeah so it was like so it's like everything that i saw scripture wise it was like Those kind of languages. But as far as husband to wife, it was always a husband as a representative of Jesus. You sacrifice yourself for your wife just like
Christ sacrificed himself for the church. The wife is representation of the church that submits to Jesus. So on and so forth. And that's why... A wife submits to her husband, you know, because he's willing to die to himself for her. Yeah. He's willing to sacrifice for her. So therefore she should submit because he will sacrifice. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's, you know, again, it's not, it's not one or the other. Like we've talked about one time, you know, like the, the
love and respect. It's like, I'm not going to respect you because you love me and you're not going to love me because I respect you, but I'm going to respect you because I, I'm going to, I'm going to love you because I love you and you're going to respect me because you respect me. Right. It's a command. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things. Yeah. So I, I loved your response because, um, it, it went into a deeper space. Uh, did you want to read your response?
Okay. Yeah. Um, so yeah, so I think, um, so I said, I, I basically said, you know, as far as the whole, is it hard for men to think of themselves as a bride? Um, and I was like, yeah, I think that's part of it. And I think another part of it is that, you know, the church has taken masculinity so far out of the church of men. Um, and because it feels like it's, they've made it more about feelings and thoughts than about action. Um,
You know, it's. What did I say? You know, the action that it's like the action that's there is gentle and calm. You know, they don't want they don't want men of action. They don't want like warriors attending church. They want they want somebody that's calm and gentle. Yeah. That will call themselves a warrior. And it's like if you're not able to do dangerous things, you're not you're not gentle. You're just harmless. I was going to say, that's one of those guys
that has said that. Because again, so many preachers and so many influencers, they shout and preach that we're warriors for God. And then they turn to all of us men and they tell us to use our inside voices and our gentle hands and the gentle parenting and stuff like that. our children, our brothers, our wives, they're drowning or they're stuck in the thorns and the brambles. And we're told to ask for permission to save them and to encourage them to save themselves.
You know, it's like, you know, Oh no, just encourage them and pray for them and then they'll be fine. It's, you know, and it's like, they tell us, don't be, don't be rough. Yeah. And that you should be uplifting in your rescue, you know? And it's like, No, if you're drowning, I should jump in and fight. Yes. You know, all of a sudden it's like when I'm using that example, I remember when I was long ago in Boy Scouts and learning about saving somebody when they're drowning.
Yeah. If somebody is struggling against you and like won't let go or won't comply, you should dunk them under the water. No way. To snap them out of it. That makes sense. Yeah. Yes. Because they're flailing and they're thrashing and you can't save someone when they're flailing and thrashing. Wow. So you basically just let them go under for a bit and then bring it back up. It'd be like, you good? You gonna let me do this now? Wow. And nobody that wants to say men be
gentle are gonna want to preach that. Yeah. Nobody's gonna want to say that. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. It's castration by religion. It's not what God has called us to be. Man. You know, men will embrace the sacrifice, the dying to self, like Jesus. That is how we're built. The preparing, we know how to prepare, or wait, no. Men preparing to be a bride is foreign and incompatible to being a man. Because it is. There's so much.
Again, you're not saying. As far as like Jesus coming back for his church when he says it's the bride, because again, that's a symbolism. That's him trying to say that. You're not saying that, but you are saying that because of the emasculation that has happened in culture. And it's so funny because I know a lot of times people say, well, because of culture, it seeped into the church. No, the church hasn't risen up. become the church and done what it is that they've been
created to do. And, and like you said, religion has emasculated men. And so because of that in the church, it has blood into the culture. And, and now what we see is what we see. Yeah. You know, I mean, I mean, again, I, I've, I've seen that whole, you know, I've seen the arguments of, When something happens in a school or something and the people are praying, it's like, God, why did you leave us and why did you let this happen? It's like, well, why did you kick me out of your
school? That part. Sincerely, that part. And even outside of that, it's, God, why are you letting this happen in your churches? You kicked me out. I'm pretty sure there's a few scriptures. Yes, it's Revelation, but I'm pretty sure there's a few scriptures that said, I stood at the door knocking. Yeah. Nobody answered. Yeah. I mean, Jesus is pretty clear about what should and shouldn't happen in a temple, in a house of prayer. Yes.
And when people are doing what God has not called to do, or when they're doing stuff, I mean, there was another thing I saw. I mean, this kind of goes along with what has Jesus taught and the masculine and the taking firm action and all that. Somebody was like, if somebody does something in the church, it's like we shouldn't kick them out of the church. We need to be there for them. We need to pray for them. We need to counsel them. We need to give them more chances, so on
and so forth. And it's like, if you read... Like Acts and a couple of the other books, they're like, oh, yeah, this person was doing something. Kick him out. Yeah. They do not belong in our church. Yeah. You know, what was it? There was some guy that was sleeping with his father's wife. And it's like, kick him out. Yeah. He does not belong in our community. He does not belong in the church. Yeah. He is obviously not doing what Jesus has taught. Right. You know? Right.
And it's like, there is. I think there's such a... See, I'm going to get on my high horse, and I don't want to. Go ahead. I'm going to get ramped up. See, I'm pushing the button. You are pushing the button, next to the button. I think there's such a coddle culture. Come on, babe. Especially in the churches, that it's... They don't want men to be met. And... It's frustrating. These kind of topics are like, I need to restart the equipment and rant about this. Not rant about
this, but talk about this. Because they do. They sit there and they say, we need men. We need men to step up. We need men to be men. We need men to be good leaders. We need men to be fathers. We need men to be the heads of the household. We need men in church. How often have they complained and railed at a vast majority of the church, vast majority of ministry leaders and stuff like that? It's women. It's women. It's women. We
need more men. We need more men. Me being on security, being close to the pastors a couple few weeks ago, man, we need more men prayer warriors. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep, we do. Yeah. Or, oh my gosh, why aren't more men coming down for prayer? It's a good question. Come on. I have a feeling I know the answer. What is it? It's because as much as they say we need men, they will then turn and say, well, not that kind. Not that kind of man. Yeah. We need a gentle man. You don't
want a gentle man. You want a harmless man. You want the, when you read the meek shall inherit the earth, you hear the weak. come on sir and that's not what it is right say what meek is what is meek is you are capable of danger again it's it's back to the you're dangerous but gentle because you know how to control it you know how to pull back you know how to i know in this situation i can do this much damage yes but i Again, I think I've talked about this before. Playing
with Sebastian. Yeah. I could severely hurt Sebastian. Yes. Wrestling with him. Yeah. Tossing him around. You know, bopping him in the forehead. But I don't because I love him. Yeah. He has never been hurt by my hand. No. Because I love him. Right. In my mind, that is meek. Yeah. Yeah. I... I am capable of great destruction. Yes. And I don't. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know the destruction that could follow. Yeah. That is what the church needs. That is what marriage is made. Yes. Yes.
You know, marriages need a strong man like that. Yeah. Marriages need a woman that can. cultivate that encourage that be with that no no speak to that baby it is you know because it's it because i feel like i can do these things because you're by my side yeah because you do encourage me you do celebrate yes my raw masculinity at times it is sexy But even when it makes a mess, even when it's messy, even when it's raw, even when it's gross. Sweaty, dirty, gross, all of the
things. Everything that is man, everything that is boy, right? All of those things. Giving you space. I didn't mean to jump in on this. But I want to make sure that the wives are hearing you, but also they're hearing me. I am your biggest... tiniest cheerleader like it it's it's that it is we wonder why i think that that's what's my conversation again with you on this part. We come into this space, we see the men of God rising up and being the warriors and doing the things.
And then what happens is when you no longer give them a battle or you no longer give them the permission to fight in the capacity and in the way that they were designed to fight, then it will become destructive. they will either implode or explode. And I've seen it both. I've seen it with you. I've seen it with other men. We've seen it with friends. We've seen it with churches where when you don't allow, if you as the man of God do not, number one, hone in your fight.
On the right target, it can get very, very destructive. Yeah. Just like what you're saying. If you were to hone your target as Sebastian, you're going to kill our little boy. Yeah. But if you are going after the enemy that is trying to attack our son. then what you're doing is number one, you are chopping off the head of the Goliath and you are also teaching our son how to be a David. And it's like, when we don't allow men to step up into the arena that they were created
to be. As wives, as women, you can't be that hard on him. Don't do that. Don't talk to our daughter. You can't talk to even our daughter that way. You've had thoughts like that. I have. I have said things like that. I have. And I am guilty. I'm absolutely guilty. You have to admit, I've gotten so much better over the years. And that in itself. Should speak volumes to me and
to other women because the moment. Yeah. The moment that I let you become dad and become father and become that person in her life and to speak, even if it came off gruff. Yeah. Like when I said, okay, am I going to sit here and correct you? I'm not going to sit here and tell you like I'm expressing to you. Baby, this is how she is. This is how she's going to respond. So cultivating that, yes, you know how to be gentle. You know how to be gentle. You could destroy any one of
the three of us at any given time. You do not. With our words, with your words, with your strength, with whatever it is, you could at any given time. You do not. And because it's like, but the moment that I let the boy be the boy, the moment I said, this is who he's created to be. And babe, I might, I might step in a couple of times just because I'm mom. Yeah. But for the most part, like when I have just let you just be dad. Yeah. Gosh.
The strength and the security and, and. just the sanctity that that creates for our children in our house. Yeah. Because what it does is it causes you to not second guess you. No. It doesn't cause you to second guess your manhood because that's what's happening in the churches. We're seeing where men are being told to sit. Yeah. Or, or. Let your wife handle it. Huh? Let your wife handle it. Let the wife handle it. Or, you know, well, you know, that's not quite how Jesus
would do it or anything like that. And I'm not saying like all, this is not an all, this isn't a, but this is, we are seeing an epidemic right now. We are seeing where the men of God are literally, they're walking away because they're like, I am created. Yeah. For war, I'm created to build. I'm created to create. I'm created to fight and to stand and to love and to care and to cherish and to do the things as Jesus did because Jesus
wasn't just this meek and mild hippie God. He was this strong, mighty, obedient, fervent craftsman. The only reason I say that is because, I mean, yes, he was a carpenter. Yeah. Yes, they've gone back and forth as to whether or not that, you know, because there wasn't a whole lot of wood back then. Right. And so if you're a stone carpenter. You're a masonry shoot. I mean, I had an uncle that was a stone mason. I would not cross paths with him. He was one of the friendliest guys.
But, man, you do not. I mean, his hands. He had massive, massive strong hands. But also. Dang. Massive strong hands. Also, limber hands that he made a whip. Sir. You know? Yeah. So, it's like, give each other. We need to give each other that permission in that space as husbands and wives and say, and recognize that we need both, that we need both in that space. And it's like, when men rise in the place of the fullness of
everything that God has created them to be. It's just like us looking at Jesus and saying, okay, God, I'm going to give you permission, but only this far. You can only do so much. You can heal me, but not that. Right? Like I have said this. I want you to take away my trauma, except for what's in that closet over there. Yeah, you can't do that. And then we wonder why we are walking around lame. And, and, and just were disabled
at that point. And I, and I think also it's, you know, it's, it's back to the men need a direction. You know, I think all of us need direction, but especially men, you know, because men are, are meant to be the leaders and stuff like that. And, and why, you know, as long as you're a good husband, wives and children are going to follow you regardless of where you go. So they need a direction more than anything else. In addition to needing direction, men need a target. Come
on. Because that's back to the, if I have a target, if I know what I'm working towards, if I know what I'm marching towards, if I know what I'm attacking towards, I can keep my eye on that. I can keep my focus on that. I can keep my goals, my motivation, my discipline aimed towards that. And again, you said it, when we don't have that, men will attack whatever's closest or they will
completely implode. Right, right. And so I think it's one of those things that it's like having those hard conversations of, and I know it's hard. I know it's hard. I know it's hard because you and I have had some of those conversations and they are very difficult to have. Because it is. Sometimes it's one of those where, well, babe, what do you want? And I'm like, I want to go out and attack something. Not metaphorically. No, I literally want to go out and attack something.
So again, it's like, what do you do? Right. And, you know, so we had a lot of those conversations. And for me, it was, let's go do martial arts. Let's learn some of this. Let's learn some of that. Because even before then, you did the Highland Games. Yeah. And you were constantly conquering and building your strength and stamina. You had obstacles and you had these, we've done obstacle courses and we've done other things like that. I think we are hardwired. You are hardwired to
do certain things. It is. Men are hardwired to do the physical things. I remember years ago I had a conversation with a group of men, and we were talking about what can we do to get more men involved in church, and not even so much involved in church, but we need something to get men together and have them connect so we can learn from each other, so we can teach each other, so we can build each other up, do all the really awesome things that men need to do.
And it's like, what should we do? And I'm like, hey, how cool would it be to just get a bunch of guys together in the woods and build a fire and chop down a tree? Yeah. And they're like, eh, you know, there's some guys at church. They're kind of on the weak side. They're not going to want that. I'm like, yeah, I bet they would. I bet they would. I would be willing to bet my next paycheck. Yes. Yes. You know, because it is. I think it's one of those things. It's dormant
inside. You know, all these ones that are like, well, you know, they spend, you know, 24 -7 on their computer or on electronics. And it's like, you know, they don't have any strength. It's like, I bet they would. Yeah. I bet they'd want to do that. because how else is somebody going to get strong except that you get them out there to do that anyway? Yeah. Oh, that's a whole other
topic. Like that's a whole other topic. You have to, you, but it is, it's, it's that, it's that conversation that husbands and wives need to have. Yes. About men need direction. Men need a target. Yes. How can I find my target? Yeah. How can I find a productive target? Yes. That I can put my energy towards. Yeah. You know, that won't destroy me or my family. Yeah. Or my job or whatever. Right. And yes, prayer is good. Going to church is good. There needs to
be something physical. There needs to be something physical. Yes, yes. You know, because again, and maybe this is, you know, I kind of had a thought the other day, and I forget if this thought was after that exchange of texts and all, but like the countries that do mandatory military service, you know, it's like at least that teaches that. Yes. Yes. That provides a foundation. Yeah.
You know, I, I'm super stoked that, you know, there are more people going into the military these days, you know, that, that people are, are looking at that and I love it. And it's, it's, I think this is one of the things that I'm excited about when we talk about homeschooling Sebastian. Yeah. It's like incorporating some of these things. Yeah. You know, yes, let's build his brain. Let's, let's, let's teach him these
things, you know, let's, let's get them. building like robotics and gadgets and stuff like that let's have him reading about you know knights and and mice that can can take down bad guys and stuff like that and you know but let's teach him some of these things you know like I've been it's like I don't know how it would work but I think it would be entertaining to watch but it's like I've been learning some Kali And he's like, teach me. He wants to so badly to go with.
Yes. And I'm like, yes, that would be interesting. Yeah. And it's like, I think, I think for the most part, the guys would appreciate it. Yeah. I think he should go with you. Absolutely. Even if he just sits on the sideline. Maybe I'll have to just ask, but yeah. Yeah. I think that that would be awesome. Yeah. Because you see how physical he's, he's. He wants to wrestle. Yeah, he does. He wants so desperately to wrestle you. And I think that, side note, that the men of God, women
of God too, okay? I don't believe that this is coincidence that we're talking about this because this is very much along the lines of what us and that me and the girls are going to be talking about something very similar in our next episode. And it's one of those... spaces and places where it's like, I think also in the church that there's such a perfection mentality that once you become a Christian, that you have to be perfect, right? In your walk, perfect in who you are, perfect
in this and perfect in that. And when you fail and when you fall down, because you will, because you will, you just will. Hi. Hello. Hi. Hi. We have a savior for a reason, right? So when you fall down, The thing is, is a lot of times people don't want to jump into these spaces and these places or they don't want to be the one that stands up and speaks up and says, no, no, no, no, that wasn't right. No, no, no, no, that actually,
no, that isn't correct, what you just said. You know, lovingly, respectfully, but just like, hey, no, like, well, no, this is how this is. No, actually, it's not. That's not the word of God. That's not what that says. And I think too many times either people have been shut down so many times or they're afraid to even try because they haven't been strong enough in the past. You're talking about these men that are on their
computers and stuff. Why do you think that a lot of times, probably 24 -7, that they're on the computer? Because number one, that might be the thing that they are gifted in. But number two, nobody taught them any different. Or they tried and that's just not something they do. And I'll make the argument because I have played a lot of video games in my life. I've spent a lot of time on a computer. I'm that level. I
have built several computers. But it's like, to a degree, it's also, hey, I feel like I need to take a big sword and swing it at people. They frown on that in public. But if I log on to some online game, all of a sudden, I am now a warrior. I'm saving the day. No, I hear you. I've got a big old sword, a big old axe, a big old shield, covered in armor, and I'm charging headlong. Into the bad guys and I'm taking them down and I'm saving the day. Yeah. I'm saving the damsel.
Yeah. I'm slaying the dragon. I'm crushing the demons. Yes. Watch me go. Yeah. I can't do this in real life, but as this character online, I can now do this. Yeah. You can pick me up and throw me over your shoulder anytime you want to, but it's fine. You can absolutely do that with me. That's fine. I'll let you. I do hear what you're saying. Yeah. I hear what you're saying. But do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, 100%. As far as like, I think because the
practical. Yeah. The everyday. Yeah. The learning how to slay the everyday giants. Learning how to, kind of like what our daughter was saying. Like, is this really? Like, is this marriage? Like, oh, I just want all the swoopy, all the hearts and the flowers and all the thing. And
it's like, no, it's the everyday. It's the. grinding it out yeah or you know sometimes it's the you know if if a if a dad doesn't know some of these things right and he has it in his mind of well if i if i teach my son business skills yeah he'll be a man if i teach him how to budget his money right he'll be a man right and it's like there's so much more to it than that yeah That's part of it. That's part of it. Yes. It's good to be, you know, it's good to be knowledgeable about
money and business. Yes. 100%. You know, because even the Bible teaches that. Yes. But there's so much more to being a man. It's a full meal deal. Yeah. Yeah. You know, because I think it's one of those things that I've heard it, I've heard it from men and I've also heard it for women as well. I know, you know. In very many Western cultures, especially America, there is no celebration of manhood or womanhood. Yeah. You know, I mean... Other cultures do that so
beautifully. Other cultures do that very, very beautifully. Yeah. I mean, to a degree, it feels like in America for women, like, you'll have... hey, you just got your period. Congrats, you're a woman now. It's usually not a good thing. It's usually not a good thing. It's not something to celebrate. Oh, I should have celebrated, Gabriel. I should have done more. That's what we're going to do with our grandbabies. Sorry, go ahead.
I know that people of the Jewish faith here in America, they do the bar mitzvahs, they do the bat mitzvahs. And there's different things like that, but there's no real celebration. There's no real, you are now a man, so here's the task that you need to accomplish. Or here's the task you need to accomplish, and once you accomplish that, once you're successful, congratulations, you've crossed the threshold. You are now a man. You are now a woman. Look at what you've accomplished.
Look at what you've conquered. You are now fully arrived. You are now part of our tribe. Welcome. That makes me want to cry. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I'm just thinking of just society and I'm thinking of the people like in the church, but I'm thinking about just the people that are in the world. And I'm like Western civilization in particular. Like if we did that for each other. Yeah. we would not have some of the things that we see
today. We just wouldn't. Because somewhere along the way, no matter what, the enemy has always played this game against, you know, like culture against culture, gender against gender, right? All of those things, these great divides. But then it's like... you know, Oh, it's easier for them over there or it's easier for them over
there. And it's like, if we would celebrate each other in those spaces and those places of who we are and who God has designed us to be, we, we would see the church of God rising in such a capacity and we would see. We would genuinely see marriages being saved, families being rescued. We wouldn't see the fathers leaving the homes. We wouldn't see the great epidemics of these things happening. We would see more people coming
together. And even giving men the platform that you guys deserve as far as like... coming in and like you're saying, teaching other, not just like this, the, the father's teaching the sons, but men teaching other men, like coming into the space and saying, you know, can I, can I, can I come alongside you? Not necessarily like, Oh bro, you're like totally. not you're totally squashing this. This is not going well, but like, let me come alongside you. I want to learn from
you. I want to glean from you and you can glean from me. And then let's, let's start cultivating things together. And so like, I see where you're struggling right here, maybe with your son, or I have a really good relationship. Let me show you some of the things that we've done. Or I, Hey, you seem to have a really great relationship with your daughter. I have one. Could you help me? You know, just. Giving each other that space to be fully everything that you are created to
be. And I'll say part of that is stepping up and embracing humility enough to say something. Yes. Yes. You know, because somewhere along the way, men have been taught, A, don't feel anything. But B, don't ask for help. Yeah. Don't reach out. You got this. The enemy has so screwed you guys. Yeah, they have. You know? Like, sincerely. Like, here, you got to go be a warrior, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but you can't use any
of your tools. Yeah. Oh, and by the way, you're supposed to know everything, and if you fail, then you're no longer part of the man club. And if you don't do it 100 % on your own, you're out. You can't have any... That's... Yeah. Yep. Uh -huh. Got to checkmark that thing. That's bogus, babe. Yeah. That's bogus. But it is because, I mean, again, it's, you know, if I wanted to learn something and it's like, you know, hey, like let's say I wanted to rewire our house for
some reason. Yeah. I would call up John. Yes. And say, I need you to teach me. Jesus, yes. can you do this with me? Yes. I want to be part of this because I want to learn how to do this. We have done that. Not the wiring of the house, but have said, Hey, help. Help. Yes. Yes. You know, and it's, and, and why shouldn't it is, why aren't more men doing that? I mean, I know why I know why that was totally rhetorical question. I know why, because, because. That's how we've
been taught. That's how we've been raised. So how do you break it? You break it by just by getting men to remember how to be men. Yes. You break it by remembering, hey, I'm not in this by myself. Hey, I can ask for help. Hey, you know, asking for help is strength. Vulnerability is strength. You know, again, in the male community. Why is there so much drug addiction, alcohol addiction, porn addiction, suicide? Because men have always been taught you're not allowed to
ask for help. You're not allowed to reach out. Yeah. Yeah. So what are some ways to do? I mean, I think... I think it comes down to remembering that the voices that say you can't reach out are stupid. Yes. For lack of a better word, stupid. Yeah. Because we can reach out. Yes. Because anytime somebody's reached out to me, I have never looked at them and said, oh, wow, you suck. Right, right. And anytime I've reached out to somebody, you know, oh, yeah, nope, I'm here
for you. I've got a coworker who the other day was checking on me, and I'm like, you know, I've had a couple ups and downs. He's like, why didn't you call me? I was like, because I didn't think of it at the time. He's like, you better call me next time. I was like, okay, I can do that. I love that. He also wants me to start a business with him, and I keep trying to tell him no, but.
but he does he genuinely cares he's like he's like if you need anything he's like you got my number call me i love that he lives he lives an hour and a half away he's like you better call me if something happens you better call me i was like okay i love that you know and and i i do it's reminding men reminding women reminding couples that the help is there yeah the people that want to help are there yeah Nobody is going to belittle you. Nobody is going to make fun
of you. Nobody is going to blow you off. If you go to somebody and say, I need help, they will do what they can to help. If you do encounter that one in however many that do kind of blow you off or they don't give you what you need, keep knocking. Keep seeking out. Keep finding people. Yeah. Keep making your voice heard because somebody will eventually. Because if you reach out to somebody and they blow you off or they make fun of you, they weren't going to help you
in the first place. You're right. And that sucks. And that sucks. And that stinks. And I feel really horrible. I feel horrible for them. And I hope they get healed and saved and better. Amen. Saying all that, especially if you reach out to a Christian. We have had people reach out to us and say, my relationship is not going the best right now. What would you suggest? Never once have we said, wow, you guys aren't as good as us. Try harder.
Oh, gosh, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. We would not be relationship coaches if that was our response. That would be very bad. That would be very bad. Yeah. But we would. We would say, oh, my gosh, how can we help? Yeah. Where are you guys at? Yeah. Let's have a conversation. let's sit down, let's break bread. Let's, let's talk things out. Let's see where you're at. Yeah. You know, let's take an inventory of what your relationship looks like. Yeah. You know, Oh, have you tried this?
Have you tried this? Oh, well, you know, we're not the best at that, but we know people that are, you know, I mean, again, we know, we know couples, we know another couple right now that they're getting trained. To be like parent coaches. Yes. That's not the word. That's not the title. It's family coaching. Family coaching. It's like I couldn't remember what it was. They're like teaching people how to be better parents. That's
awesome. Yes. You know, but again, it's one of those things that it's like we've already had conversations with this couple that says, hey, we're good at relationship coaching. You guys are good at family and parenting coaching. Yes. If need be, we can team up. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yep. So, yeah. So, it's like we know that there's help. Yeah. It's getting past ourselves to ask for help. Yeah. It's getting past ourselves to remember that there are people out there that
are cheering for us. Yeah. As much as there are people out there that I don't get along with. I can't think of a single person on this earth that I genuinely hope that they do not succeed. That's good. That's good. I mean, technically, we should all be like that as Christians. Amen. As decent human beings, we should be like that. Unfortunately, I don't always think that. I'll just be real. You know, I'm not saying that.
And then I have to catch myself. Yeah. I mean, again, I'm not saying that I'm wishing that they'd be massively successful, but I'm never wishing for their failure. Yeah. That's good. That's good. So, yeah. Do you think I answered that? Do you think I hit it? I am nodding. Sorry. I am nodding and not responding. Yeah. That's good, babe. That's good. I think I came up with a title for this too. I saw you writing. I didn't see it, but I... Step up and take aim. And on that
note, have the best week. Enjoy the journey.