Talking Weird #146 UFOs & Other High Strangeness with Michael Huntington

with me. Whether it's watching the show live where it goes out on YouTube, an X and Facebook every Tuesday night at nine pm, or maybe you're watching it on one of those platforms where it's archived afterwards, or listening from the next day onwards when it drops on almost every podcast platform.

on the dentist's chair. I remember shortly there after myself having to get four impacted or four wisdom teeth removed in the chair. I didn't get put under. I was just in the chair, and I asked for, you know, the laughing gas, the nitrous oxide, and I think my dentist was very scroogey with the amount he gave me.

I certainly had no incredible religious visions when I was on the happy gas, and I certainly afterwards never had any kind of valous type experience like Philip K. Dick had after he'd had a dental procedure, and the beginnings of some of his stranger paranormal experiences of the latter years of his life began when he was delivered. I believe painkillers from the local pharmacy, and he had one of his first real valous visions.

He has traveled to hundreds of places in the US with his family, documenting strange locations and lost law, building a paranormal location GPS research database with multiple thousands of locations, and has been a guest on dozens of paranormal, cryptied,

and UFO related radio programs and podcasts. He's appeared on television discussing UFOs and has been interviewed for several documentaries, including the Cryptid feature Momo, The Missouri Monster, and the On the Trail of UFOs documentary series produced by Small Town Monsters, as well as The Creature from Big Muddy. I've seen all of these that are all great and

most recently perhaps Grand Tawer. Last year's film was called Grand Tower, UFOs and Other High Strangeness, produced by Red Room Media, which tonight's guest is, I suppose the feature narrator as well as one of the writers of it a fantastic I watched it a couple of times in the lead up to this interview. I had already watched it when it came out, and I watched it twice again this last Week's great if you're into the type

of things we're going to be talking about tonight. He has researched the UFO mystery for over forty years and frequently writes on issues related to reform of youuthology, which I think we'll also touch on a little tonight, and improving rational methodology. He's also a UFO collector and archivist. His writing and photography work can be found on all social media on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and on the Strange

Travels blog and the occasional print medium. So I'm delighted to welcome to talking with somebody I've wanted to have on for a very long time.

can't really escape that. And and if you're studying the subject, you have to study the history, you have to study the literature, you have to study all the cultural influences that are going on for the different ages and eras and movements. I have a big picture of view of ufology, you know, which is you know, the study of UFOs and the history and the literature and and all that.

There's a lot of people that are focused on, you know, like the movement aspect, you know, the political disclosure aspect, you know, the different camps that are trying to push it politically or within the culture in order to change the paradigm or whatever. I'm a UFO researcher, so I do have opinions on things, but I also I look at a bigger picture. I look at all of these

things going on. I'm removed a little bit from a lot of people within social media because you know, it tends to be newer, younger people that come in and you know, I'm like going on fifty years of researching this subject. So there's sort of a you know, learning curves and all that, and there's different camps and groups

and everything. So you know, I navigate all these things while I share research with researchers, and I promote big picture uthology, and I promote projects and archiving and literature and all that, because I think ultimately, whatever your views are going to be on different cases or theories or

personalities or what the big questions are. You should at least be informed, and you should read the literature and know the history and study it from a lot of different perspectives, not just from you know, certain believer views or even skeptic views. I do study the history and have study the cases, and I am skeptical in some instances.

I think anybody who studied this long enough realizes that there have been hoaxes, that there have been con artists, that there have been cults and manipulative factors within a lot of these paranormal subjects that intersect. You know, there there have been cults, and there have been these things that have manipulated this subject and created these narratives, these

competing narratives in these camps. That that is the history of the subject, you know, it's it's all of these cases and how all of this stuff interacts, and you know, the heroes and how they come and how they go, and how they rise and how they fall. I think all that's fascinating. And I think those of us that are focused on the historical aspect and the archiving and the promotion of you know, legitimacy for the what is a multidisciplinary subject I think deserving of even a degree.

I think I think it's just as legitimate as a women's studies or African American studies. I think if something has been within American culture long enough and has you know, and arguably influenced the culture and the history and the politics. H and it has a literature, and it has movements and personalities, I think that's a subject that is worthy of study. And that's even aside from you know, the

anomalies themselves, which are scientific mysteries. And there are questions there as to you know, I have a philosophy of science background. That's what I study when I was here at Southeast Missouri State and I focused on pseudoscience demarcation. That was sort of my physis. There so questions relative to you know, what is sufficient evidence? Uh, how do you change a paradigm? You know, how do you have these scientific revolutions? What is sufficient to change a paradigm?

What does that mean? Who are you trying to influence? You know, are are paradigm shifted by yeah? Are you trying to influence the public? Is it a pr thing? Or are you trying to influence the consensus? Establishment? Because that's really you know, the walls that you need to knock down. So we get into these questions of you know, what's sufficient evidence and how far can you speculate as to what is a stew of varietal cases? You know,

And I'm fascinated by all of it. I'm fascinated by all sorts of anomalies, UFOs, cryptids, go other paranormal things. And and I focus quite a bit in my research. Uh,

I'm sorry, were you saying something or oh? Uh, I focus quite a bit on my research on uh, on mapping, you know, finding locations that uh, that have an anomalous aspect to them, you know, through culture of folkal or whatever, and you know, go beyond just probability, you know, to suggest something worthy of study, because ultimately, with all of these subjects, uh, you know, how do you study them? How do you you know? They They're so transient and UH.

For me, I think ultimately we need to try to pinpoint some of these things down, localize them, and have sustained, you know, long term scientific studies. So I promote that too.

I promote scientific youuthology as well as big picture you foology and reform to move away from you know, sort of the the corrupting elements that have always plagued the subject, you know, political influence by intelligence people and cult people and people that are kind of artists and people that want to exploit you know, that's that's something that we have to work through, and there's debates as to you know, who's out there and who's good for the subject and

who's bad for the subject. And I'm in the mixt I pretty much have been doing this sort of thank you every day for you know, forty eight years, so it's a lifestyle thing, and I'm definitely devoted to the subject and all of these associative subjects, which is pretty much all part of the same big picture.

that not everybody is interested in. When I did my PhD, I did a chapter on the philosophy of science and it's and the way science intersex with euthology and how you can't understand the UFO phenomenon or the way the UFO phenomenon was understood in the twentieth century without understanding how science intersected with it.

of the paradigm shift. Thought was making it quite clear that you that science didn't operate the way that we're led to believe through a cultural mythology that science operates. In other words, you know, people standing on the shoulders of others and gradually getting closer to you know, some idea. Thought made it very clear that the scientific institutions have very strict boxes that you can't just inject new material into. And Thomas Kuhn said of the identical Thing forty years later,

the paradigm is resistant to change. And when a paradigm collapses, it's only because it's been shattered so much. Anyway, I could go on ranting and ranting and anting about that stuff, but maybe maybe just because I'm this is the first time we've got to talk how how what was your first.

in on things like flying saucers. And you know, within that group you got all your you know, your your classic uh uh influencers, your writers and all the great and the magazines you know of the sixties and the seventies, and uh uh I was born in sixty nine, and my mother, uh was really into all of these these things.

you know, the UFO incident. That was one that I watched on TV when I was a little kid. And and you had In Search of and Project UFO, and then Close Encounters hit the theaters, and all the magazines and everything within the culture was so sort of UFOs at least for me, and I really got into that,

and I get into Star Wars and science fiction. That that's one thing that I tell people that are interested in in UFOs at least, that I hope that they're science fiction fans and if they really want to study the UFO subject, you also have to study the history of science fiction right along with it, all the way, you know, from H. G. Wells all the way up, because these are these are influencers within the culture that sort of mirror each other and they play off of

each other, and there might be some answers there for people to consider, but either way, they need to to know what, you know, how people viewed what a flying saucer was. And it's different in different places at different times, and there's some cases that are good, in some cases that are bad, and some that are legitimate and some that are not. And you know that it changes over time. And I think, you know, an honest approach to all this stuff and really getting into the history of these

cases and everything is is it. If you really want to study the subject, you have to know the subject. There's a lot of instant experts out there now, you know, because if they watched the documentary or two and then they get a podcast, you know, and then they're they have the right guest or two. But there's a fundamental absence of you know, if you're claiming expertise, you should at least have Yeah, I think some literary background, literary knowledge.

I have a list on my on my group. Uh, you know, like I think like five hundred books all euthologists should read. Uh, you're not going to read that many, it's but you can read a few hundred, you know. I have a few hundred. And Uh I think that's you have to study, and you have to study the history and you have to know the cases. And that's how I got into the mapping stuff. Was uh, really

it's a good way to know the cases. Uh, you know, down to a square foot if you can position where a UFO was and a witness, I think that's a pretty good demonstration that you've researched the case adequately enough, you know, if you're able to GPS it. But uh, going back to the to the close Encounters era, I really got into UFO's probably around seventy eight, when Travis

Walton's book came out. I had pictures of Travis Walton on my wall when I was nine years old in eight and I started collecting UFO stuff and UFO books, and I had had a flying saucer encounter in nineteen seventy nine that sort of you know, pushed me over the edge there a little bit, and then I joined APRO. I was a member of the Aerial Phenomenal Research Organization. I was a kid, so I had to like, you know, write a letter saying, don't discriminate against me. I'm a

legitimate researcher, you know. So they let me in, and I was a member at a couple of different times. Recently, my friend Dave Marler was able to find some of my APRO materials in the lost APRO files at the National UFO Historic Record Center. I had made a report from my sighting in nineteen seventy nine, and he has it. He has like a drawing that I made from when I was a kid back then. So and he's got

my membership things from from back then as well. So when I say that I'm APRI old, I can pull out some bona fides to say that I've been around that long and corresponding with people. Back then. We wrote via mail, you know, and our internet was maybe the UFO Audio Visual Clearinghouse or one of the UFO news clipping services. I got all that stuff. Every month. I ordered different things, you know. I got UFO encyclopedias and as many UFO books as I could. Back when I

was a kid, I sort of obsessive compulsive. I would take Ronald's these stories UFO Encyclopedia and recorded into a tape recorder wow, so that I can memorize it. And I was also obsessive compulsive about astronomy back then too. I would like copy like astronomy books and everything, like page by page. I don't know where that comes from. I'm sure some experiencers will say, you know, it's maybe it's a connection to my UFO experiences or whatever. But no,

I went to college. I came down here to Cape Gerarda, Missouri, which is a has UFO history like you would not believe. It's where Project Identification doctor Harley Rutledge's first university scientific field study was conducted from. So I came down here. Cave Gerardos also has a UFOAT crash tail that predates Roswell from nineteen forty one. There's been several books. So I got that, you know that interesting lore. I got doctor Harley Routledge, you know, with his study down here

at the UFO hotspot. I come from Saint Louis originally, which is you know where where a move on got it start, you know, out of the Saint Louis Flying Saucer Clubs. I remember back then, you know, when we had those, and I was a member of move On back in the eighties and the nineties as well, and years over the years, I moved away from them at times under you know, different administrations, as you could understand, as they moved more towards entertainment as opposed to science.

You know, I still you know, I've tried to promote through YOUO reform a hashtag over the past ten years. You know, I've lobbied all the different groups I've been to, like SCU in Huntsville, and I've lobbied people there, and I've gone to a lot of different conferences as I travel around and document anomalous locations, and I encourage, you know, a move away from the celebrity culture and to move more towards grassroots science, a move away from you know,

the intelligence influencing. I think I've said this before. I think when you have people like Louise Elisondo who has called for the death of euthology and to wait for the old euthologists to die, When you have somebody like that who is an icy guy saying that it just speaks volumes as to how clueless he is about the subject.

we have to just have intelligence people involved. I'm thinking, did we learn anything from the Condon like the content, like the whole the history of euthology has been plagued by the type of things Alexando was suggesting.

fifty two like that video of the Washington Nationals. He was promoting that in a in a speech as like legit footage. And it's like, no, man, you if you're going to be up there promoting the subject, I think you should. You should know the subject and care for

the subject. And and I think a lot of those people are you know, they're within that niche you know, that mirage men how put off you know, sort of spook trough knish that's been around you know since SRI back in the seventies, right, And they're used to that. They're used to that, you know, that that pork so to speak, whether it's from Bigelow government also that you

know whatever, and that's that's what they want. And and and I think they're sort of moving a lot of these A lot of these I see people also are connected to to like firms that deal with like security and drones. You know, So we're seeing a blurring of the drone issue, and we're seeing a blurring of the term UFO, you know, into UAP, which is a sort of amorphous thing that military can put whatever they want

into it. And these people that are promoting a lot of this, they're they work for these firms, they work for these companies. It's sort of like a it's like a lobbying that it's kind of like off the books, you know, they're they're defense lobbying. But they don't have to be sunshine about it because I can just call themselves a science interest technology interest group, you know. Know.

And and it's understandable because I mean, look at what's going on like Ukraine right now, right that sort of drone warfare is what's coming. And also what's coming is the skies are going to be filled with drones. They're going to be filled with delivery drones and robot drones, and that's what's coming. So they're going to have to partition the sky, and they're going to have to control it,

and they're gonna have to lock it down. So I think that's what a lot of this ic machination stuff is is to get all the reports, you know, to turn everybody into little brother and siphon all these things to the government. Which the problem is, traditionally you cannot trust any of them absolutely because they don't tell the truth. They will tell you that they can, they lie by by a mission at least, right, they can never be totally transparent, which is why you know, I believe in UFOs.

People see UFOs. There are things that are unidentified in the sky that people don't know what they are a lot of times we do know what they are, but UFOs are real what they are. In some instances they could be extreme alien or whatever. In some instances, you know, they're probably government stuff. But you know, we're talking like five percent of all cases, or a very small percentage, and then even within that five percent, half of those

are just low information. Well really all of them are low information because if we had all the information, we would know what they were. You know, if we could identify a UFO, it's not a ufhone anymore. So there are extreme possibilities, the alien stuff, interdimensional, all that stuff is possible and exists and could exist. But you know,

the military is interested in all that stuff. You know that that's flying in the skies that they want to identify, and there are mysteries there, and I think we have to look at everything case by case within the subject. And I don't think the military is going to give you the answers. I mean even their own efforts, you know, arrow UAPTF, all that stuff, AWSAPP. I mean we're just now getting like the big low papers and stuff coming out, right.

I mean, they could have done that in twenty seventeen. I think it's manipulated. And then you're seeing these people making money and you're seeing them on TV, and you know, and and then they mix the patriotism stuff into it.

You know, it's like, how could you be against the veteran You know, I've gone to conferences where I've been physically threatened by some of the guys and that's you know, the culture out there because he thought I said something on Facebook or x or something, and it's anybody knows me. I mean, I'm provocative, but I'm not going to insult you.

You know, but you're you're seeing that, and you've seen that, and that's why, you know, people have distanced themselves along with a lot of those people just not knowing the subject. You know that recent all that, you know, the chandelier stuff, and you know the saucer and the field stuff. You know, real researchers recognize that stuff immediately. I know this because I was one of those guys that found the chandelier and I was one of those guys that found that circle.

I was there, you know, and I'm a real researcher, and real researchers they went to details. You know, whenever I see a picture or a video online and if people are like, oh ufo Michigan, I'm like, that's a state, how does that help anything? And it's just you know, I need there's like twenty things that I need, you know, I need time, date, location, GPS, direction, elevation, I need

the witness. I'm one of those people I don't believe in anomalous with anonymous witnesses, because how can you have providence of evidence. How can you have evidence providence without you know, if somebody's testimony is part of the evidence, then you need to be able to check the veracity, you know, make sure they're not like a professional con artist.

on like News Nation. And then the year before they did the same thing with those Chinese balloons, right, and then they mixed you know, oh UAP, it's also the same thing. It's like, no, there's a lot of junk in the sky. There's always been a lot of junk in the sky. There's always been balloons, there's always been drones, there's always been rockets, there's always been this, identify casions

and all that. It's you know, people need to learn these things and realize, you know, when you turn on television, you're and it's media, you're you know, you're being manipulated largely. You have to really be careful. Uh yeah, I pull out the old X Files. I was an original X Files member, first season X Files member. I signed up for the X Files fan club by mail. Uh trust no one, you know, uh really trust no one. Judge

things using critical thinking, uh, measured responses. Don't believe what you hear, you know, check what you hear, you know, uh, check the evidence and and don't draw conclusions. You know. You can have provisional things and you can be speculative. But I think we just there's so many people that are just on these narratives. You know, they just have these belief narratives, and you're seeing like everything sort of put together, and you're seeing like a deification of the phenomena,

you know, as a singular sort of thing. It becomes anthropomorphized. And I think even Vallet has talked about you know that's problematic, you know, I mean it comes from Jacques Vallet and Kielle. You know, the idea that you know, there might be some sort of paranormal unity aspect to

a lot of these things. But you know, I interact with a lot of people and it sort of gets culty, you know, and it's like, you know, the phenomena will only review what it allows, and it's like and then they mix their you know, their consciousness cultism into that, and it's it's worrisome, it's frightening. I've been around long enough to remember things like Heaven's Gate and and some of those people I've I've been around some cults. I've

been around people with mental illness. If you're in this, in any of these paranormal subjects, let's cut to the chase. Let's cut to the reality. There are some people with mental issues, and a lot of times I think there's some bad reinforcement by some bad players, especially you know,

when it gets into the exploitation aspect of it. So you know, we've said for years we have to police ourselves, and and we do that by pointing things out and asking questions and seeing if you know, that's the way to look. And and I played Devil's Advocate a lot, but I'm gonna keep doing what I do I'm you know, this is my lifestyle, this is my my subjects, and I I'm just going to keep doing it and try to influence people on and towards a positive thing.

to suggest that this thing wasn't extraterrestrial, that there was another intelligence and it was something else, perhaps spiritual or perhaps into dimensional. But they were all pushing away from that etch interpretation, and the media never really caught up with that. But to me, it was fascinating that some of these key movers and shakers were saying, it's not et something else. What's your kind of takeaway on that?

to get here. However they're doing it, and the idea has been sort of morphed a lot of different ways over the decades into the notion that somehow they're already here, and they're either here somewhere in the earth hidden like you know, like in a civilization underground or in the water, you know, somewhere that we can't see. You know, they're a crypto civilization, you know, one that's like a lost Atlantis like Wakanda or some thing uh that was around

uh for a long time. I mean it goes back to you know Shaver and uh pulp science fiction, you know, the the notion of underground even you know, ah g Wells Selenites, you know, inside of the Moon. You know, we can go back throughout science fiction and and see these ideas of you know, underground civilizations. Comic books and and films are filled with all this stuff. Uh. Jules Vernet,

you know, is filled with all this stuff. But you know, as we as we move in you know, like into the Esoteric age and then you know, perhaps into the you know, the New Age, Hippi era, you know, where a lot of different, uh new ideas are being put forward, the idea of different realities and different dimensions like coinciding like together within space. Uh maybe occupying the same space. Uh, that's that became popular. I think a lot of it came out of like the ghost you know, uh spiritual

uh ghost research. You know, the idea that there is that there is an invisible metaphysical realm, a realm of consciousness of beings, identity, souls, whatever, intelligences, and that was sort of you know, and it's very compatible with religion, you know, the idea of the soul and and afterlife

and all that. But as you move into uh you know, the Kiel and Valet era, we have this this idea that perhaps everything's sort of connected to maybe a few intelligences that somehow can manipulate from this place that's here and manipulate late not just reality, but perception and human perception, and their interests are perhaps us. We don't know what their agendas are. Maybe they're tricksters, maybe they're angels, maybe

they're demons, maybe they're beings from the future. We have all these different speculative ideas that can coincide and coalesce with religious views and also cult narratives and conspiracy narratives, especially within the UFO world. So yeah, there is a disclosure of disclosure is narrative that that has that that has has sprung out of the Bigelow crowd, the help put Off crowd. I think Big Low cannot be denied as being an influence, his mixture of the spiritual and

the UFO stuff. He was paying the bills for a lot of these people that are you know that around. You know that whole new Thinking Allowed crowd. You know a lot of those people were recipients of you know, Biglow's funding. And we're part of a lot of these

different projects. So there is like a narrative viewpoint within uh, within this culture around like put Off and and a lot of these guys Valet and Sri I and uh you know these remote viewers that they go to like Monroe and Esslin and and uh these are these are communities. There's these are camps one of many that interact with each other and influence each other. And that's sort of that's what's behind a.

money off of this. And there's tens of millions of dollars being spent on this subject, and it's going to these you know, these these firms and these these people, and uh, I think it's really not been discovered uh yet that there are uh like ritual belief systems connected to what they do, and there might be issues if you know, our tax dollars are going towards you know, like C five H is that scientific? Is that a religious ritual? Are we promoting like a proto religion? Even

Vallet has worried about this. I think he's mentioned this that you know, you have to worry about it becoming a proto religion. And it's frightening, especially as somebody who has studied like history, you know, go back to Nazi Germany and look at some of the some of the influences there that were sort of twisted by by some of those influencers. I think it's telling when people like Alex Jones or even just today is said that lou Elizondo's like, you know, not legit, like he's like Q level.

It's like, you know, if you're getting called Q level by Alex Jones, then you know maybe it's it's something that needs to be looked at.

high strangeness. When you're looking at that on the ground, it seems to that film in many ways seems to validate a lot of what people like Keel and Valet and Patrick Harper and others are saying about so much of this phenomenon somehow being interconnected, and especially Keel, his idea was there was one phenomena or one phenomenon, and there was all these different aspects which appeared as different phenomena,

but he always wanted to get to the root. And when you watch that film, there seems to me at least when I'm watching it to be echoes of that Keeleian idea that all of these things might be stemming from this same source UFOs, bigfoot hauntings, whatever.

I do. But yeah, there is the Kiel and Valet notion of you know, some sort of singular paranormal cause. But that can be biasing, especially if you think that that causes an intelligence, right, because if you consider it an intelligence, then you anthropomorphize it, and if it's got powers that you don't, then it's easy to deify it after that, you know, And that's when you sort of

get you know, these problems here. I think you can look at places and you can see that statistically they are more anomalous than others, and we do need to try to figure out what's going on and not just speculate that it's an intelligence a singular intelligence cause, because I think that's a bias interpretation. That's you know, you need a lot of conditions to be verified before you

get to that. But I think it can be demonstrated that there are places that maybe it's connected to the environment, and maybe it's connected to electromagnetic from the ground. Maybe there's some sort of geological aspect that maybe can induce hypnogogic hallucinations. It may happen over here and not happen over here. That's why I don't like these singular things.

You know, you may and I think I can demonstrate this that there's a place in Florida where it has three spooklike lower tales around it, like in a pyramid. You know, if you study it, you can see that it's literally a phosphorus mind, right, So there's probably some sort of natural cause to this. That's why I think every case, every hundred house, every ghost, every bigfoot every UFO, every single one is its own mystery. They may not

be connected to each other at all. You know, there may be as many answers to these as there are mysteries. I think it's demonstrable that we can know what a lot of them are. I think the fact that you can solve some shows that they cannot all be one thing. That's just logic, which means that you know, it's probably

a variety of things. And the supposition that it's a singular intelligence thing hasn't necessarily been demonstrated unless you get into the high strangeness cases and you and you get into the narratives, you know, and that's a whole other thing. But I'm interested in locations to minimize, you know, the transient nature and try to localize phenomena for study. I do haunted stuff mostly because they're the least transient. You know, a haunted house stays there. Bigfoot is hard to catch.

I mean, you know, you can go there a week after he's been there, and UFOs may come or go. Spook lise uh might be a little uh uh more of a common thing. But I think a lot of those are are optical illusions. I think grat certain gravity hills are optical illusions. Uh, you know, and it's not to be a buzzkill. You know. It's like each of these mysteries are great. Each of them have their own uh you know, probabilities and likelihoods and answers, and I

like truth. I'm I'm fascinated with hoaxes. I'm fascinated with the bunk. I'm fascinated with the contact ees and the the con artists and all that. It's it's, you know, part of a big picture. But but just to say something quickly, Uh, there could be an invisible trickster from another dimension that manipulates human beings as well, that is interested in human sexuality or human spiritual or psychic development or whatever. Uh, you know, prove it right. That's it

would come down to that. But fascinating either way. It's sure.

that it's insistent. Really, a hotspot is a place that has sustained and consistent claims of UFOs or if we want to you know, have this window view. I do. I map everything because I you know, I think it's interesting when a haunted house is built on top of a of like an Indian mound, I think that might be something. You know, I think if people are seeing spook lights at you know, a location where you know, a plane crashed, that's interesting. You know what causes that?

You know, things like that. Those are the things I map and you can see a lot of those, those sort of off the beaten path of places on my Instagram. I got like a thousand pictures up there.

that across the United States. You can look along there and you can see you know, some interesting locations, I haunted spots, UFO locations, cattle mutilations. I think Marley Woods is along there, you know where all the the the Grand Tower and the other seventy three wave stuff took place, but all along there. But I think that you can find patterns anywhere. Really, the patterns that I found is, you know, there has to be people around to witness it.

So you know, if you lay over, you know, you can take a map and put these locations, it's going to correspond where people are at, because people have to be there to experience things and report them. As far as hotspots, small towns limestone, maybe in the ground, running water there there are certain attributes that are interesting springs. You know. They're at Marley Woods, Grand Towered, different place,

Skinwalker Ranch. Uh. There's the idea that maybe this either creates a condition that allows you know, maybe a veil between realities to lessen, or maybe at these places there is some sort of portal or something and things can come through from other realities or whatever, or there's something environmental uh that is affecting how people perceive things, or in some of these small towns, just folklore, you know, urban legend that stems from you know, some Bologne. There's

there's a lot of that. I've investigated quite a few UFO crashes around here. In the nineteen fifty that word sort of like a part of an organized thing by the jc's all the different groups were having contests to have these saucer crashes. You know. There's these cultural things in there that we have to be keyed in on, I think to understand some of these big pictures.

I think it would be bigger. I'm pretty pump plugged into the UFO, you know, live pulls, and none of the legitimate, even the UAP disclosure people aren't aren't looking at that as anything legitimate. It might be out of that that realm out there, the Internet that you know, just is doing the AI stuff and going crazy and you know, making feeder phones and just trying to get as many clicks and sell click it on the side. I don't know, whatever I have.

I think Murphy's Burrow, the events in the seventies and the eighties were interesting. It's along Mississippi, Nit and Ohio riverways. There's a lot of intricate you know, irrigation stuff going on, so things can move around. You know, it's still pretty rural in a lot of these areas. It's interesting, don't I've met people that have seen Bigfoot, and you know, you can only take their claims just on their claims.

But I think out of all of the anomalous subjects, I think there's probably more evidence for some sort of upright hominid in certain parts of North America, and there are for UFOs or ghosts or sea monsters. Because you have hair and tissue samples and dermal ridges and all these other sort of things that are that are scientific

in nature. Ultimately, you're gonna need a body, right, or some sort of serious tissue or or something that goes beyond just you know, the photographic evidence or an extraordinary claim on a TV show. Science is going to need something that they're going to have to study. You know that they're gonna need to study. That's UFOs, goat ghosts. You know, I'm I think we need ghosts and bottles, you know, we need to get more ghostbustery.

The most common paranormal stuff, I think is like synchronicities and just you know, things that just you know, they all shrimp plate sort of thing from from Repoe man. You know, it's it's that's the most common thing. And that leads to questions of chaos theory, and you know, do we exist in a control system? Do we exist

in the simulation? All that stuff that's the philosophical you know, stuff that I think people embrace too much as not speculative, you know, and you got to watch out for the belief stuff and anyway.

If it isn't somehow to inject some pattern into this perhaps simulation that we're living in, or even this is this normal reality, there isn't some deeper significance of the purpose of these things, that perhaps the purpose isn't their existence, that perhaps the purpose is to show us that reality

isn't exactly what we think reality is. But again that drifts into the philosophical and we can all have a bed each way when it comes to this, and it's I was only talking to Rick Hilberg the other day as well.

joy having you on the shows, so so wonderful. How how do people how do people get a hold of what you're up to feel free to point them at anything at allmost.

an archiving project. I'm sharing stuff that I collect and I'm getting new stuff every day. So I got a certain budget to get certain things, and I'm trying to teach some of the new people out there that they don't need to, you know, go to a contact in the desert or follow you know who Tom DeLong likes. You know, just get some UFO materials, books, magazines, and research,

you know, study UFOs. You don't need anybody's permission. You don't need the government's pmmiration, you don't need politicians permission, you don't even need other UFO people's permission. But it's out there. There's resources out there. You know, there's so much chat, there's hundreds of you know, you collect this stuff,

you read this stuff. There's there's scholarship out there, there's literature out there, there's a history out there beyond just beliefs and our views and our opinions and our politics.