You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. KFI AM six forty heard everywhere on the iHeartRadio app On any given day in southern California, hundreds of investigators are working more than ten thousand unsolved cases. That's thousands of friends and families who have lost loved ones, thousands of people who got away with a crime, and thousands of murderers who still walk the streets. Killers who may be your neighbor, go to your church, or could be dating a close
friend. For the next two hours, we'll highlight cases that have gone cold, baffled investigators, or just need that one witness to speak up. This is unsolved with Steve Gregory, Las Vegas Metro Police Department homicide case number seventy nine DASH five three eight eight five, the cold case murder of Gwen Marie's Story also known as Jane Doe, nicknamed Sahara Sue. We were tipped off about an interesting case in Las Vegas regarding the recent identity of a young woman
who has found murdered in nineteen seventy nine. Her body was discovered near what was then the Sahara Hotel near the Strip. There was no DNA back then, and in an odd twist, the teenager had dentures, so identification with
tental records was not possible. But in December of twenty twenty three, there was a breakthrough and we found it out there is a California connection, So we headed out to Las Vegas and the Las Vegas Metro Police Department where we spoke with cold case Detective Terry Miller about the case of Sahara Sue Doe.
In August fourteenth, nineteen seventy nine, at approximately nine pm, a male was on his way to work at a local grocery store, cutting across the desert to make sure he gets to work on time, and sees what he believes is a dead body. He initially thought it was a male. He ran to the nearest gas station, called nine one one, summoned police. Upon patrol arriving at the scene, they discovered the body of a white female
adult, partially nude, laying in the road. So the area that she's found was on Las Vegas Boulevard, just west of Las Vegas Boulevard, south of Sahara and it's where the first Rancho Hotel and casino, which later becomes I believe the Thunderbird Casino and then something else. There used to be cottages behind the casino area that had been torn down, so there was roadway like asphalt roadway throughout that area, but they had been torn down, so it
was considered to be a desert area. At that point, she is lying face down and it appeared that she had suffered some sort of trauma. Homicide detectives were summoned to the scene and at that point began their investigation. This is about nine PM, so it had just really started getting dark at that point, and they also during that time started to conduct a canvas into any surrounding businesses that were in the area, and they came across a liquor store.
There was an employee in the liquor store who recalled a female matching the description of our deceitan who'd been in the store with a white male. She described him as being approximately six feet tall, then build like a darker blonde hair, but she stated he had a mustache that was a little bit darker than his head hair. She said he spoke very softly. She recalled that he had purchased a bottle of alcohol and a soft drink and that he had
the female with him. They used her to make a compositive confirmation that the decedent was the same person that had been in her store at approximately seven point thirty eight o'clock that night earlier. She was immediately brought down to Metro's police department and a composite was done of the male that she was with at that time. To move the case forward, they attempted to do fingerprints for identification
of this female, who they thought was between sixteen to early twenties. She was tiny and it appeared that she had nice nails, manicure, pedicure,
but she didn't have any shoes on at this point. And they started to look at other cases in the area, possibly anybody that had attempted sexual assault on anyone else that whole area, but nothing seemed to pan out for them, and in the end, the case probably goes close to forty four years before we're able to solve it and get who we termed or named Sahara sudo it's true name. Now, when did you first lay lay eyes on this case? I think it was like twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, eighteen twenty
nineteen. Do you when you first open a book like that because we're looking at the book now, which appears to be what five inches tall five six inches tall of papers and a three year ring binder. When you looked at something like this, and this turned out to be quite a historic case for the Las Vegas area, right it was. Throughout the years, this case has been picked up by numerous detectives on our department as science and DNA advanced.
The testing to try to get her identified was used throughout the years hoping that, you know, we could give her her name back and some resolution to her family. So when you first laid eyes on that and you opened the book as a cold case detective, because I mean also, let's tell everyone that you know, you spent some time here. You're a retired detective who came back to work as a cold case investigator. So when you open this book and you look at it, what's where's the first place you go?
Forensics? Okay? And what did what did you find out first? Well, one of the things that's recently come to light with the Golden State Killer, for instance, is forensic genetic genealogy. And our sheriff is very committed to us to try to get these cold cases solved. And brought up
to a modern standard. And by that it means using all of technology that we have to try to identify our unidentified victims of homicide as well as any unsolved homicides that we have so forensically, I looked at it like, can we do genealogy FGG on this case, and in working with our DNA forensic lab, we were able to determine that we had enough as well as name is the national set of for missing children. Yes, Nick Mick is the children, and we sent this case in I believe it was twenty twenty two
to Oathrom. This case had gone to we'd worked it with the FBI, we'd worked it with Border and Protections forensic Unit. It had gone to and that's the pollen that we were trying to see if we could determine where she came from by pollen that was on her clothing at the time of her death. Also, we worked with name Is Nick Mick, Bodie and Oathrom using all the testing that they had available in an attempt to get her identified.
So before we break here real quick, so let's go down because you're using some vernacular, so let's explain. So oathram Is. It's a forensic lab that's in Woodland, Texas that uses whole genome sequencing and forensic genetic genealogy and intent to help us solve these cases. And you listed the other and I believe that was the missing Person's database, right, So what are the other? You rattled off some acronyms there, and I just want to make sure
I know what they are. So names is a database that choosed for adult missing persons unidentified persons that have gone missing. And it's a database that choose worldwide in an attempt to try to locate. For instance, you have a body that's found in let's say California and it's on the border of Nevada. So what they'll do is they'll look at all of through the corner's office in
the local police departments. They'll use that database to see if it matches anything that we have, if we can get DNA and see if we can identify that person. And nick Nick is the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. And because we felt that Sahara sudo was so young, they enlisted the assistance of Nick Nick in an attempt to try to help us use whatever sciences and databases that are available to get her identified. When we come back,
we'll talk about any results of all those tests. But first, this is Unsolved with Steve Gregory on KFI AM six forty. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand KFI AM six forty live and on demand on the iHeartRadio app. I'm Steve Gregory and this is Unsolved. Welcome back. We're inside the Las Vegas Metro Police Departments homicide Unit. We're talking with Detective Terry Miller.
She's an investigator on the cold case of Gwen Marie's story. Before the break, she was telling us about the first time she laid eyes on this forty four year old case. She said she started with forensics and then worked her way from there. And what did all of these new tests and new technology yield for you? Well, otherm was able to, through forensic genealogy, get us a lead to a person who lived in California who they believed
to be a family member of our Sahara. Sudo I contacted him and through conversation with him, he agreed that he would try to help us solve this forty four year old case and if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't be here today for sure, But he gave us a reference sample of his DNA to be used, and a couple months later otherm notified us that he was close enough to be a brother to our victim, which was huge. That's
the huge break we needed in the case. And from there he was on our victim's father's side, So from there we were able to determine through records who he had been married to previously, and through that we were able to identify siblings on our victim's mother's side and tracked them down in Florida and had
a very difficult conversation with them. There's a spokesperson who's the oldest sister of our victim who told us that if they'd ever won the lottery, that they had agreed that they would hire a private investigator so that they could find their sister. They had lost their mother the year twenty twenty two. It had been a difficult year for them, and one of the things that was weighing heavy on her mind was the fact that their mom died not knowing what happened
to her daughter. So the difficult conversation, I'm assuming was that you verified to the family that Gwen indeed was dead. Correct. Well, that's the hardest part because you're telling them the story and you're not quite sure if it's
her because I need reference samples from them. People need you to explain why you want their DNA, So you're in a really tight spot when you're trying to convince people, I need your DNA because I think this is going to be related to you, and I think it might be the sister that you've told me has gone missing for all these years, but I'm not one hundred percent sure. So until we get the results back, that poor family is in kind of suspension correct, suspended. Yeah, And you know, emotionally,
that's very difficult for all of them. She ended up having nine siblings, so and luckily most of the family were together in Florida, so they weren't spread out across the United States. So our spokesperson in Florida, the
oldest sister, she could have the conversations. I didn't have to have it multiple times, but trying to make them understand, and you know, a couple of them were upset with the fact that we're coming to them saying that we think we found her and laying that heavy baggage on them and not being sure and you know, it takes a little bit to get test results back unfortunately, So that was kind of difficult to navigate through. And then the
others were just like so relieved. So it kind of ran the gamut there with emotions with her mother's side of the family. As a season detective, when you talk about these difficult conversations, because I'm sure when you were a homicide detective years prior that you had to do notification of next to Ken right through Nevada and next to can notifications technically done through the Clark County Corners zone. Oh okay, but when you're out on scene and they know, of
course you're going to have that conversation. So there are times where we have to do that. And where I'm getting at is that those were instances where you pretty much knew the identity of the victim already. So this is a different kind of a probably different kind of a challenge for you, because for your point, it might be, it might not be, but hey, by the way, you know, we need to do this because we think
we might have some answers. So is that even more challenging as opposed because you already know the victim's identity before, but now you're kind of rolling the dice. That's kind of how it feels. It's I emotionally could understand how they would be upset. I can only tell you that I'm ninety eight percent
sure that I think this is going to be her. And on top of that, I had to have phone conversations with them and send a Florida detective to help me out who suffered that portion of it because he had to be face to perce with them. Yeah, but I'm forever grateful to him because he, you know, he handled it well, and the family did respond and we did get our reference samples from them, and then shortly after that
we were able to make positive identification. So I can't imagine a response and how a family would feel, or any relative or loved one when they've pretty much I guess their feeling about this topic has been dormant for four decades, more than four decades, and now all of a sudden, you come along and you sort of tear that band aid off again, right, yes, And can you walk us through how what kind of a trauma that might mean for a family? Well, like I said, some of the family members,
do they seem I'm sorry, do they seem relieved? Are they upset? Are they you know, are they demanding? What's been your experience? Well, this particular family, I would say two of them were upset and then they were all grateful, but they expressed it differently emotionally. It affected every one of them differently. There's no doubt about that two were kind of upset, and we're like, you know, you're dragging us through this without
even being sure. And then you have to explain this is this is the only way I can be sure. I need your DNA. Two of you have to give me your DNA. I need one from the male, a brother, and one from a sister. And I don't care you know who it is, but I need two of you to step up and give me the DNA so that we can know for sure if it's her or not. And then I also explained to them that it may not be your family member, but you're helping another family who's in this same boat that you're in,
where you don't know whatever happened to your loved one. We're talking with Detective Terry Miller. She's with the Cold Case Unit of the Las Vegas Metro Police Department and she's been investigating a cold case from nineteen seventy nine. More coming up, but first, this is KFI AM six forty. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand I AM six forty live and on demand on
the iHeartRadio app. This is Unsolved with Steve Gregory. Welcome back. We're at the Las Vegas Metro Police Department talking with Detective Terry Miller with the Cold Case Unit. She's been investigating a cold case from nineteen seventy nine, the murder of Gwen Marie's story. So we talk about now that the DNA from the family helped you get a positive, pretty much positive idea. I guess it's been pretty much proven through the DNA samples that your victim's name is Gwen
Marie story. Correct, that's it. So what do we know about Gwen? So, Gwen Marie's story grew up in Cincinnati, and she attended Cole Raine High School as well as Junior High And this is information I obtained from her siblings, and they stated that she, in probably around sixteen years of age, did not get along well with their stepdad. And wanted to reunite with her biological father, and her mother told her that he lived out in
the California area in south of the Bay. So she apparently quit high school sometime around nineteen seventy seven nineteen seventy eight and went to work full time to start saving money so that she could make this trip out to California. She left sometime in the late summer of nineteen seventy nine. She left with two male individuals who her siblings called friends of hers, and got to the Las
Vegas area a couple weeks after they left the Cincinnati area. Supposedly, the two males came back to the to Cincinnati said that they had left Gwen here in the Las Vegas area. According to the oldest sister or spokesperson for the family Gwen, they could not understand why Gwen wanted to stay in the Las Vegas area. They didn't know what happened, why they left her here in Las Vegas, why they hadn't made it to California. They didn't believe that
she'd ever made it to California, that they'd gotten this far. Didn't know if she ran out of money. They didn't know if there had been an argument with the two males that she traveled with if they just ran out of time and needed to get back to Cincinnati. And when they attempted to speak with these two males, they didn't get a lot of information. They stated that their mom had traveled out to the Las Vegas area a couple different times
trying to locate her daughter, but had never found her. I did not ever find a missing person's report that was filed with our department by their mother. And when they said that she traveled out here, they didn't really have a lot of details is to what she was doing out here, if she'd ever hired someone, or if she was just out here randomly looking. They didn't They didn't really know, but they did know that it was odd that
she came to Vegas. They didn't know that they didn't believe that she had ever wanted to stay here. Her goal was to get to California. So the two I guess at the time where they she was nineteen when she was killed, right nineteen and a half. Nineteen and a half. How old were the guys that were with her. Supposedly they're about her age or a couple years older. Okay, so these young men, then any word on
where they are and who they are. We are trying to find them now because they would only be at this point, what in their sixties, yeah, early sixties, early sixties. Yeah, so it's plausible that they could still be around. Yeah, definitely. Because did you find that do you find that suspicious? Where you said they didn't provide much information at all,
that they just literally left her here, that seems suspicious. Absolutely. We've solicited through news media, through social media, trying to get persons to give us any information on who those two males were that she traveled out here with. That information is going to come from Cincinnati, and we're in the process of trying to track down people back there who were in Gwen's social circle at the time that she left and find out, you know, exactly who they
were and where they're at. How were you able to piece together her social circle from her? So she had nine siblings, so it was a large family that all went to Coleraine High School. Yes, and the family lived there for multiple years before they moved to So what kind of a social circle did she have? I mean, was she well liked what? You know, what kind of a social life did she have well, at this point, we haven't been able to track down like her closest friends. It seems
like, you know, she was well liked that. You know, she was out going, she was a free spirit. She's very independent. Obviously, if she quit high school and went to work and decided I'm going to save up enough money to travel to California to find my dad, I mean that takes a special type of person, especially back then it's not like today. And you know, her siblings, seems like she was pretty close with
them. I know that she had moved out of the house at the family home and lived with a girlfriend prior to her leaving Cincinnati, and I'm in the process of trying to identify who she was living with at that point. But you know, people move, people change their names, people get married, people get divorced, names change. It's a challenge to locate those people. Yeah, I was going to say, it sounds like just this one
case has kept you very busy. It has, especially in trying to track down now that we finally know who Saharasudo is and we've been able to communicate effectively with the family to go back and get the backstory and track down all the people that were with her is an enormous challenge forty four years later. Now, it's not like you know, a couple of weeks ago. I mean, think about forty four years, how your lives changed. Their lives
have changed. Some of them don't even know that we've identified her and that, you know, their friend was a victim of a homicide in Las Vegas, right. That's fascinating. The thing is that the connection I'm trying to figure out now is that the two guys she comes out with, they go back, they say that they just left her there with no further explanation, and then she was presumably seen with this guy that you you know, looked, you know, this white guy with the mustache in the composite sketch.
What does your experience tell you. Have you been able to piece together a theory of what you think might have happened? At this point, I would say stop there. When we come back, we'll hear exactly what your theory is. But first we got to take this quick break. It's Unsolved with Steve Gregory on KFI AM six forty. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand k I AM six forty live and on demand on the iHeartRadio app.
This is Unsolved with Steve Gregory. Welcome back. We're in downtown Las Vegas inside the Las Vegas Metro Police Department's Homicide Unit, talking with Investigator Terry Miller and thought the case of Gwen Marie's story found brutally murdered in nineteen seventy nine. She was nineteen and a half years old. And before the break, Detective, we were talking about all kinds of possibilities here, and the one thing that still strikes me very oft is you know the two guys,
the friends, and then the one guy at the liquor store. But before the break, I did ask you what you think happened based on your experience this, you know, five to six inch tall book that you're looking at and all of this, and your your instincts and intuition, what do you think happened? Nink? Gwen was the victim of an attempt sexual assault. At the beginning, I stated that she was partially clothed, so I believe that there was an attempt to sexually assault her. A struggle evolved from that
and Gwen ended up dead. The two friends and I used air quotes and the friends that I mean, who abandons two guys abandoning a nineteen year old girl in Las Vegas of all places. What kind of friends do that? I don't know that they abandon her, And that's why it's so important that we get them, identify, fight and speak with them. Did Gwen for
some reason meet someone here and want to stay? Did they run out of money and need to go back home to a job, or and Gwen didn't want to go that she was going to make some money here in Vegas and then head over to California. You know, she'd made it all the way this far and was so close to getting to California, you know, her ultimate goal. Did she say no, leave go without me? I mean, there's a multitude of reasons why they left her. Maybe they got into
a fight, Maybe they were no longer friends. Maybe you know, she she didn't want anything to do with them anymore, you know, along card trip like that, a couple of weeks together, you know, can make you figure out that probably these really aren't my friends. I don't know, but I do need I need to speak with them. When you talk about these the guys that go back and you estimate that they were close to her age, and I wonder, I wonder if they're going to be willing if
they're ever identified, or if they ever come forward. What do you think the odds are that they're still alive or they're willing to come forward. Well, they're not that old. They're in their early sixties. They should still be alive, unless you know, they had like some sort of a traumatic
accident or something. And I would hope that in just knowing the fact that now that she's been identified and they truly were her friends, that they would want to help with the investigation, and that they would want to provide any information that they would have that could help us move forward and trying to you know, identify and arrest the person that did this to her. This is a heinous crime. Well that brings me to my next question. Can you
talk a little bit about it? And I don't want to do it to be overly graphic, but just want to talk about what kind of condition was she in when she as found. She had suffered from blunt force trauma. She'd also been stabed multiple times in the abdomen, and the blunt force trauma was to the head in her upper chest area. Like I said at the beginning, she was little. She was maybe five feet one hundred pounds, and she had just been brutally beaten as well as stab multiple times. Had
there been evidence of sexual assault? It appears that there had been evidence of an attempt sexual assault, Okay, because I didn't know in seventy nine if they would do the same kind of kits that they do now. I didn't know if that existed back then. They did do something similar. Yay, something so much they do that at this point then, Oh, and then there was something else I thought was odd about it too. Did she have
dentures? She did, And her dentures, in speaking with siblings was simply from the fact that she had very bad teeth and they called it back in the seventies bottle rot, and so her family didn't have a lot of money. And it's my understanding that they had pulled those teeth and given her a bridge. Got it, okay? At this point, then you're talking about a nineteen year old girl found brutally murder murdered in Las Vegas. You have nowhere to go with this case. What happens to a body like this where
it becomes what you said? What you say Saharah Sue Doe? Right, that was the nickname that the Tectas had given her. Yes, So what happens to sus Haarah Sahara Sue Doe at this point? What do you do with the body? Well, her family that that's where the family works with the Clark Kennon Corner's office, and she was buried here in the Las Vegas area through the mortuary in the Corner's office here and they will work if the family wants to move her to where they're at or back to the Cincinnati area.
So she didn't even get to go back home. No, No, she was buried here. Is there a reason why she was buried here? Do you know? Yes, because we didn't know where she belonged. No, Yeah, that makes sense, and I guess that's standard protocol. It is, yeah, standard protocol. Kind of off topic a little bit. Do you have an estimation of how many of those Jane and John Doe's that you might have? I do not. At this point. The Corner's office
keeps all those statistics. I basically work with unidentified victims of homicide. Got it. So as we wrap this up, I wanted to ask you for a final plea, What is it you really need from the public right now? I need the persons anybody that has information on who Gwen Marie's story was living with prior to her coming out to the Las Vegas area in summer of nineteen seventy nine that can provide some background information. I need to speak with
them. I need to speak with the two individuals that brought her out here so that I can know what was going on, what happened here in Las Vegas, why she was left here. It's so important to get them identified and have a conversation with them, not only not only for me to move forward in the case, but also to understand what happened that night. Were they with her, were they already gone? Did she meet someone while she
was out here? Was she dating someone? There's so many questions that I have for them that they can help fill in those blanks and help me solve this murder. And with forty four years of a gap, it's a very challenging task, very challenging. Detective Terry Miller with the Las Vegas Metro Police Department's Cold Case Unit, thank you so much for your time. Thank you
This is Unsolved with Steve Gregory on CAFI AM six forty. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand kf I AM six forty heard everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. I'm Steve Gregory and this is Unsolved. To see exclusive pictures, video and other multimedia, go to KFIAM six forty dot com keyword unsolved. We've also got a transcript of this episode. Also, if you want to contact the team, just email us at unsolved at iHeartMedia dot com and don't forget. If you have a story, idea or a tip, just
I'll pound two fifty on your cell phone and say the keyword unsolved. I got a call from Eric Ogaz. He's a detective with the Sam Bernardino County Sriff's Department's Homicide Division, and he, like other detectives in the department, also handle cold cases. Detective Ogaz says he's got another case for me,
and he manages to juggle that case with other active cases. You see a lot of agencies don't have the additional staffing and funding for separate cold case units, so everyone has to pitch in. Ogaz is really passionate about giving closure to friends and family of those who've been killed or gone missing, which brings us to our next case, the disappearance of Scott Kristin Eckles case number zero one dash nine two zero three eight seven zero. The Henry number is one
one nine dash nine two. This is a story that's every parent's nightmare. One minute you see your child, the next minute you don't. The Echos family haven't seen Scott since nineteen ninety two. Detective Ogaz is the lead investigator, So, Detective, this is one of those stories that must really get at you. Anything dealing with a child, whether missing, of used, or killed, all of these have got to weigh on you. Yeah, they do. I mean, especially when a child eight years old goes missing.
Is totally an account for for such a long period of time, like disappeared off the face of the earth. It's frustrating. So it's start at the beginning. So to go back and take us back in time, the date and the time and the place. Okay, Well, Scott Eccles was an eight year old boy. He was last seen on July twenty fifth and ninety two at about ten ten o'clock in the evening. He went missing from the thirty five hundred block of Nolan Street in Sambordino, also known as the
Muskoy area. Okay, his father last saw him on the couch sleeping in the living room. So so his parents or it's just his dad was at home. His mother and his father was home along with three siblings. Wow, Okay, so father says he last sees him on the couch. What happens next, Well, around ten o'clock his father here a knock on the door and his father didn't get out of bed, and it didn't assume anything about it. And the next morning he knows that Scott was missing. Is
what time of night was this again? Ten o'clock at night? Ten o'clock at night, and the father didn't think that was suspicious, I guess not. So who first discovered that Scott was missing? Well, the following morning, when his father got up, he realized Scott was not on the couch in the in the living room. And he didn't report Scott missing for several days afterwards. So his initial thought was Scott either ran away because he was
having problems in school. Also, Scott was one of those kids that, even though it was eight years old, he kind of was getting into trouble quite a bit. He was missing school, He was known and seen to be actually drinking alcohol at time, smoking cigarettes. He was on probation for an arson. So at first the father just didn't really doing about it. Kind of that's set for a couple of days. Did the department have any
track record with this family? I mean, had the department been over to the house before they've had I would say mainly probation has had contact with with Scott referenced missing school and obviously the arson. As far as law enforcement contact, what prior contacts we had that house, I was kind of leave in an investigation part that we have. So you talked a little bit about Scott being involved in alcohol at a very young age and smoking whatnot. So what
was his home life like? Well, he lived in a lower income area of Muskow. I will say this, the residents wasn't really well kept. It seemed like the Eccles family was on hard times. We're not really did have much money in the house. The apartment was not in very good conditions. And that's the situation that he lived in. What did the father do? Do you know? What was occupation was? I do not recall at this time with his occupation with the mother, I do not recall it.
I do not believe they were working, but I am not positive on that. So Scott, what school was he going to? He was going to? I'll have to check in the reports we see. Like I said, these are cold cases. Please, if you've got to John your memory, you know, we can talk about that a little bit later. Okay. But the reason I asked this is that because obviously there were other kids his age too, so did he have friends? Did he have a lot of
you know, interactions with other kids? Was that he did have several friends that he hung out with, and they've all been spoken to, and of course I have not seen him. The thing was Scott was Scott was known to also panhandle. He was a very friendly kid in the neighborhood. He would walk the streets basically, and if he saw a homeless person picking up cans, he would go help that homeless person pick up cans and then try
and get a portion of the money once they were done. He was also known to go, like to the Walmart and hang out there and panhandle. Where did he pick that up? I do not know. I just think because he spent a majority of time outside of the home, just kind of wandering the streets. That's just something that he learned to people he met. Like I said, apparently he was a very friendly child. He would approach people and talk to him and I think he just picked it up by talking
to people and helping just watching. We're talking about eight year old Scott Eccles who witnessing July of nineteen ninety two. And if he was coming from a low income home, he had three siblings. Do you remember the ages or even know the ages of the siblings, did have anyone close to his age or what did they do? I will say this, he had an absolute total of five siblings, only three of them I believe were living out the residents of the time. He had two older siblings and then he had three
younger siblings. So were the siblings involved in raising him at all or taking care of him? Or this sounds like all the kids kind of offended for themselves. Exactly. Yeah, it was kind of fended for themselves. So how do you approach something like this, detective? I mean, you've got a missing child. Now you've only recently picked up this case. I mean it goes back to nineteen ninety two. Where does one start. Well, as you can imagine, this case was publicized in the news. The detectives
and investigators at that time got numerous leads and tips. Most of the tips are more of opinions and not actual facts. So I'm basically going through binders that has probably two thousand pages with interviews, and going through interviews and trying to find inconsistencies or holes or new approaches in the case leads that we could actually follow. Detective, we got to take a break, so that'll give you a little time to look up at Scott's school as well. This is
Unsolved with Steve Gregory on kf I AM six forty two. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand I AM six forty heard everywhere live on the iHeartRadio app. I'm Steve Gregory and this is Unsolved. We've been speaking with Detective Eric Ogaz He's with the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department Homicide Division. He's also investigating the disappearance of Scott Eccles, a boy who was just a couple
months shy of his ninth birthday. A happy go lucky boy who made friends easily and appeared to be more comfortable hanging out with the homeless than hanging out at home. Correct. Oh, and I was able to during break look up that school and he went to Vermont Elementary. Vermont Elementary School that is at a big school, is a small school. Do you know? This is an average sized elementary school in Sambordino. And so you talk about him
being very friendly. So when you talk about a cold case and something like this, detective, do you obviously there were detectives talking to kids back in ninety two. Do you search out those kids today? Oh? Absolutely, And those are things that we're working on. And that's another thing when you go through this report and you see time and time again how people say he was very He was a friendly, approachable child, and he would approach people.
When you think about the fact that there was a knock at the door at ten o'clock at night and then the next morning Scott's missing, tends to make me believe that whoever knocked on that door at ten o'clock at night, Scott knew whether it was a friend his own age or an adult or an adult either one. I mean, I can't imagine a ten year old or ex correction, an eight year old boy opening the door to someone that he does not know and not being scared or yelling for his father, his mother,
and just willingly, suspectedly just going out. I mean, there was no conversations of anyone hearing of any type of a struggle or or anything else, and there's no signs of that. Based on your experience on a case like this, where do you I mean, when you know that and you just kind of said that, you tend to believe it's probably someone he new or recognize. So how do you go back and how do you backtrack his
life? Well, that's what's difficult. I mean, first of all, we're fortunate that he's only eight years old, so he doesn't have a long life to backtrack. But it's very difficult in this particular case because he was friendly with so many people. We have, you know, homeless people that he was helping panhandle with, collect cans, with people in his apartment complex, other kids. I mean, so we go back into contact as many people as we could find that lived in that area back and then they did
do door to door searches and contacts. So I have a long list of names of people that were initially already interviewed, So I'm not trying to go through report and figure out key people based upon statements things that they observed or heard that I could follow up on. Yeah, we're talking a long time ago, and when the people if you've have you talked to anyone that remembered
him from back then. I don't want to get it to who I talk to you, but I will let me say that the reason I'm asking you that, what I'm getting at is do they have a vivid memory of him? I don't care, you know, you don't have to tell me who. But do those people that person have a vivid memory of Scott? Yes. And the thing is you got to also understand being a cold case and going back that far. Not some people are deceased that I needed to talk
to. Some people have moved out of state, sure, some are still still local. And part of this is where we have to sometimes travel out, you know, out of stadium and to meet with these people and sit down and talk with them. But that's not a problem because the ultimate goal is to find out what happened to Scott and resolve this. We're talking with Detective Eric Ogas with the San Brendanino County Sheriff's Department Homicide Bureau about this missing
child Scott Echoes from nineteen ninety two. You've said something here that's got me very intrigue. His friendship with the homeless. Correct. How big of a part does that play in this? It's hard to tell. I mean you're talking about, let I said, once again, an eight year old child, you know, walking the streets talking to random people that are homeless and helping them out. And obviously there's numerous homeless encampments you know that. I'm
sure the kid possibly went back to. It's hard to track down those people because you don't necessarily don't know who those homeless people were. You just try and talk to neighbors in the area see if anyone could put a name to some of those people. I'm not saying that a homeless person is necessarily are a primary suspect or lead, but nevertheless, that's a lead we need to track down and try and find out what people were in that area at that
time that were homeless that he was assisting. So you got to tell me when you first looked at that, you know, You've got this large three
ring binder that it looks closely three to four inches high in paperwork. And when you look through that and find out that he assimilated more with the homeless than perhaps his kids his own age, did you know right away that this was going to be even a bigger challenge because by virtue of being homeless and back then, I can't imagine you've contacted anyone in the homeless community that remembers him. Yeah. Well, I have not talked to any of the people
in the homeless community as of yet. There were people that were homeless that deputies and investigators spoke to at the time that I still need to track down. The first part of it these cold cases is you really got to go through the whole case. And as you mentioned how big this book is, you basically write down a list of things to do and people to contact or leads to track down. And I'm at that point now where we're going to
start tracking down some of these leads. We have spoken to several people, but we have not gotten into the meat of some of the interviews that we need to do, if that makes sense. Yeah, but you said too, have you had to travel out of state yet, not this one, not for this case yet. I said, we're just at that point now we're going to start really getting things going. And that's why I think it's
great that we're discussing this on the air. Being an old case, maybe someone knows something, has heard something and figuring out, hey, enough time's gone by. You know, investigators need to know what happened to Scott Eckles because him missing it at that age, you needn't deserve that. When we come back, we'll talk more. And I want to also, Delvin, I'm just going to give you for fair warning now I'm going to talk to you about theories, about theories, about theories, Okay, so I'll just
give you a warning there. But I also want to touch a little bit on the home life because I think that also could be a message for families too when they're hearing this and the fact that they may just take for granted, you know, when the doorbells ringing at ten o'clock at night, that perhaps parents need to be a little more aware. That more with Detective Eric Ogas. But first, this is KFI AM six forty. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. Kf I AM six forty heard everywhere live
on the iHeartRadio app. I'm Steve Gregory and this is unsolved. To learn more about this case and others, go to KFIAM six forty dot com keyword unsolved, and if you've got a tip or story idea, grab your cell phone and dial pound two fifty and say the keyword unsolved. We've been talking with Detective Eric Ogas with the sam Brenardino County Sheriff's Departments Homicide Bureau. He also works cold cases. In fact, we're talking about one that he just
recently delved into. Eight year old Scott eccles went missing nineteen ninety two, July twenty fifth in the Muscoy area of sam Brenardino. And you know, it's it's unusual because he was at home with his entire family, sense almost his entire family. He had siblings there, Mom and dad were there. The doorbell rings ten o'clock at night, Scott was sleeping on the couch. He goes to answer the door and then no one ever saw him again.
Correct, So when you think of something like that, you've already mentioned earlier that you believe that it was somebody Scott probably knew or was comfortable with, or recognized about theories. Do you develop theories? I mean, do you work off of theories or do you just only work on what's in front of you? Well, it's both. You work off of what's in front of
you. But you got to be careful with theories, because when you get a theory in mine, sometimes you stay focused on that theory trying to make that theory, and you cannot do that. You've got to be open to what the case provides to you, what leads you have, and be open to the total investigation and not narrow yourself down to theories. If that makes sense, sure, well, yeah, it's got to be one part of the process. I'm assuming absolutely. You gotta remember everybody, I kind of
get a kick out of this. Almost everything anyone knows about homicides and solving cold cases they see on TV. Correct, and it's all done in forty two forty seven minutes, and you wrap it all up, and it's just like you have all this technology, have all this net and the other. But that's not really the case. You guys are really I mean, in all the years I've known detectives, you're having to employ some pretty basic stuff. You know, Sometimes you don't have that magical computer and that lab whiz
down the hallway that's tying it all together for you. Correct. So I mean you're on the phone a lot, right, No, Yes, on the phone a lot out, making contacts out in the streets a lot, talking to people a lot. Absolutely, it's not just sitting behind your desk. How do you balance working on a cold case like this and the other cases you're working on, because how many are you juggling right now? I'm currently working for cold cases, for cold cases, So when you come in
your workday, lay that out for us. Well. Basically on prior to on leads like this Scott Eckles case, I made it a priority right now to dig into it. Like we've mentioned before, how big this case is. I just devoted this whole week, you know, the last couple of weeks, I'm sorry, the last couple of weeks into actually reading all the interviews, going through the the crime scene, you know, going through everything
that's there to look for angles. I can't if I'm focused on this case, I can't jump around like an hour on this case and now around that case. I give it all my attention, and once it's done, I put together my list of to dos and then I just start focusing on that. And I do that with each case. So when you said crime scene in this particular case, is that house still there? The thing? It? Is it the apartment? Yes? Or the apartment? Excuse me?
And is any members of those families still around? Any member of his family? I don't want to put that out. If that's okay, that's fine. No, that's fine, you know. And what I'm getting at is is that if because a lot of times this many years later, nineteen ninety two, for say God's sakes, you know, sometimes those places have been torn down rebuilt. So did you did you go out there and visit and were you able to sort of get a sense and visualize what happened? No,
I have not actually drove out to the crime scene crime scene. I know it's still there, the address is still showing us there, but I have not gone out there yet. Like I said, this last week and a half two weeks, I've been focusing on reading. I made a couple of contacts, trying to locate where people were at and basically building a to do list. So let's talk a little bit about parental responsibility. You've already mentioned that, and I don't mention all of this too lay blame. That's
not what my goal is here. I think it's more about awareness. You've already mentioned that. When I asked if if members of the family were in your system, you said no, but they were in the probation system. Yeah, I know that probation has that contact was okay, so can you tell us what the probation was for. The probation was for a few things, for an artisan, and then he was also missing school a lot.
Okay. You said he was a troubled kid. You say the home was kind of a kind of a mess, correct physically, and it sounds like parentally it was a mess too. Doesn't sound like there was a lot of parental oversight. No, it did not. Did you get the sense from looking at this or talking to anybody related to it, that perhaps the other
siblings were in similar situations. I know that that was investigating and looked into, and I know that CHOLP Protective Services was involved, and that's something that they came to conclusion with. Our main focus right now at that time was to locate Scott Echoes and see what happened to him. But and the reason I bring all of this up is did any part of his home life do you believe played a role in his disappearance? Oh? Absolutely, I mean
I don't think that. And I said, I'm not trying to cast blame either, but just being a parent myself, you know I would not let my son at you know, eight years old, just rolling the streets on accounted for and hang out panhandling at corners and then have knowledge of that and allow that because it's just unsafe. You don't know who's in come in contact with and there's no control. Do you do you think the parents knew he was panhandling? We information, Absolutely, yes, I do. Yes,
I do more with Detective Ogas from the same Bernardino County Shares's Department. But first, this is KFI AM six forty. You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand kf I AM six forty heard everywhere live on the iHeartRadio app. I'm Steve Gregory and this is Unsolved. We're wrapping up with Detective Eric Ogas from the same Bernardino County Shares's Department. Detective we've been going over So
theories about Scott's disappearance, are there any others worth exploring? I guess the only theory would be is going through, like I said, the crime scene, there was and I can't put this out and I think it's safe to say that there was no signs of any force entry into the home. There was a knock on the door. Leads me to believe that Scott left with someone that he knew. I think that would be somewhat common sense. You
would think that. And that's the theory that I'm kind of running on right now, is Scott knew the person that he left with and felt safe leaving with. As far as parents go, and you know, and as parents listen, because a lot of people listening have children, what would be your recommendation for them to sort of prevent this from ever happening to another parent? Well, I could just give my own experience in parenting. Just be involved.
You know, I know we all work and have jobs or or have things going on in our lives, but being involved with your children, doing things with them, holding them account on the ball and responsible for their actions and not making excuses for him. If you have a child, that's the problem. Child that's getting into trouble that may require more attention and more time
from you. Is there any evidence at this point when we talk about the parents, is there any evidence that they perhaps could have ever been charged with negligence or endangerment, child endangerment, anything like that? Was that ever brought up because of the of the fact that he just disappeared. I know that there was an investigation into that, and obviously I don't want to put out the conclusion of that investigation in what consequences they did face or did not face.
Was there ever anybody that of any person of interest whatsoever in this case? There are several people of interests from then or now, I would say, from then and then still including now. Do you think Scott Echels is still alive? No idea not you were experiencing all these years. What's usually the timeframe for a child like that, after they've either been abducted or missing like that? What typically happens in majority cases, I would say the child
lost their life. But we have had cases, and I'm sure you're aware of where you know, kids have been held and raised in other homes and later on is found as adults. And that's basically what we need to find. We have a child that's unaccounted for, and it's our job to figure out what happened to Scott. I'll take it one step further. Do you think Scott lost his life in San Brendanino. Do you think he's lost his life somewhere else? That would be very hard to say, that would be
totally speculating. I know he left was last seen in Sambordino where he went from there at that time. I do not know the homeless areas that are, the homeless folks that he hung out with. Were there any parts in town that he frequented? I mean, were there areas he was known to hang out well? He was actually know him to travel from Muscoria actually into the Highland area even and was been seen by witnesses out there panhandling with homeless
people. One thing about Scott, though, that was another thing I didn't mention. Scott was afraid of the dark. Every sibling and his parents said how scared he was of the dark, that even at night time he would stick into the parents room and try and sleep on the foot of their bed. They would wake up, of course, and tell him to go back out to the living room at night time if he was out and it started
to get dark. There was numerous statements that he would always find a ride to get home, and then sometimes those rides were just from strangers he would see and say, cane me here right home because he did not like being out after dark. And here it is ten o'clock at night. He had a knock on the door and supposed they believe left is someone that he knew I felt safe with even though it was at dark and at night. We're
talking with Eric Ogaz with the same brid County Sheriff's Department. And finally, as we wrap this up, do you know what he was wearing that night? Yes? Information we had he was last scene wearing a Angels baseball team Angels white shirt and it was cut off like a half shirt and Levi's Yes, that was his last scene. Where So, if anyone has any information
or remembers anything about this case, what do they do? Just give Samudel County Sheriff Department a call and ask for the Homicide Division Detective Eric Ogaz, or if you want to remain anonymous and use the tip line through you guys, absolutely do that. I mean no tips too small. You know, we understand what. We'll get a lot of tips, but we will investigate and track down every single one of them and hopes to solve and resolve this case. Well, let's hope we jogs some memory. Hopefully. Yah,
I'm prand so thanks detective, much appreciated, Thank you. That's gonna do it. For more on this and other cases, go to our web page at KFIAM six forty dot com keyword unsolved, And if you want the podcast of tonight's episode and other episodes, go to the iHeartRadio app and enter Unsolved with Steve Gregory. Unsolved with Steve Gregory as a production of the KFI News Department for iHeartMedia, Los Angeles. Robin Bertolucci Program director, Chris Little,
news Director. The programs produced by Steve Gregory and Jacob Gonzalez. This is KFI AM six forty. KFI AM six forty on demand