Nurturing Hope: A Recovery Update with Joey Nakao - Ep 145

Welcome to this episode of Unraveling Adoption, an intentional space to delve into adoption's complexities together. I'm Beth Syverson. I'm an adoptive mom of a courageous and insightful 20-year-old son, Joey. He and I started this podcast in August 2022, and he has been engaged off and on with the podcast and other Unraveling Adoption activities since then. The last time you've heard from him on the pod was in January 2024 with

an episode called Joe's Healing Journey Continued. At that time, he had six hours off weed and he was registered for the spring semester at the local community college. And I'm very happy to let you know that he's back with us today to update you on how his recovery is going now, five months later, and so happy to have you on Joey, even though we're not in the same room, but we can No, I am so, so excited to be here. I'm in a great place, not just physically, but emotionally and mentally. My

sobriety date is April 8th, 2024. And I don't know how many days that is. I can't do math, but I'm close to 30 days. Yeah, very good. So last time our audience has heard from you, you had six hours sober and you had high hopes for going to school and everything was looking It went well for a little bit and then it just kind of dive-bombed because I got back into substances, which I don't mind saying is just marijuana and nicotine, but I'm still on nicotine. That's probably the hardest

thing to get off. And I feel like if I were to get off of it, I would go crazy. So marijuana is my drug Okay. So you've had almost 30 days off of weed and still hanging on to nicotine, but I think we've all agreed that just Literally. One thing at a time. Don't go cold turkey with everything at once because that will probably make you What happened in January and then what happened In January, I was dedicated, but not fully

understanding of what I needed. I was very dedicated to not wanting to do it, but I didn't have the people around me that understood how to help me. So it was kind of on my own. And I realized, we'll get into it, that that's not Yeah. I think if anyone's ever been in any sort of 12-step meeting, Yeah, almost always doesn't work. I don't know why, but it's really, really hard to do by yourself. Yeah. If not impossible. Yeah.

So what was your breaking point? Why did you decide to become sober Well, my major pushing was, I'm going to share this, but I'm not going to say the name of my girlfriend. I just was like, I can't be that person anymore. And I believe that the cannabis was making me numb to my emotions, so I couldn't really express them fully. And also it was a thing that we fought over, just do we have any, what do we do? And then it made us have a Exactly. But now we're both in treatment, which is

exciting. Exciting is all I can be. And I was really proud of her, very proud of her. And I'm proud of myself. And Yes, we're all very proud of you. And I'm super glad you're proud of yourself because I could be proud of you all day long. But if you don't feel proud and it's just kind of like window dressing. So, yeah, I'm proud of both of you. And what was it that brought

you into rehab this time? What was the straw that I don't fully remember, but do you remember me stating You had a really rough week with your girlfriend and you were fighting a lot, I know that. And then you happened to have your psychiatrist's appointment Yeah, that week after kind of a rough week with your girlfriend. And That next step came really fast, actually. I explained to him what I needed. I needed something that was different than

the last couple of treatment centers I've been to. And he said, I got you. And this doctor is, I feel so grateful for They have a lot more research done within their own system. And their structure is a lot more strict, but at the same time, understanding that Yeah, I feel very comfortable. I'm at Hazelden Betty Ford in Palm Springs,

Yeah, so it's run by Betty Ford. It's a partial hospitalization program, which is like an all day outpatient treatment for recovery and you're staying at a house with other people going Yes. And I would like to explain kind of how the PHP works. Treatment days are only Monday through Friday. Okay. Weekends don't Okay. So Monday through Friday is like kind of going to school, right? Yeah. They

have a schedule for you. You go this meeting, that meeting, blah, blah, blah. And then in the evenings and on the weekends, you're kind of like a regular person. Yeah. But with these other colleagues that are also going through treatment. Exactly. That's awesome. We are so grateful for the Betty Ford Clinic. And, you know, I've heard wonderful things about them and they are wonderful. It's been way above and beyond what

the other treatment centers have been like for you, right? 100%. It's just beautiful there. And it's in some of the other places. And I know each place did its job and, you know, got you the next step. So I'm not disparaging them, really. But in some of the places, I felt like Yeah. Here, there's people that had years

Oh, yes. The workers, I don't fully remember, but some of them would use alcohol or something like that on And it's kind of hypocritical, like, you don't do this, but I Yeah, it seems like the quality of people and the staff, it's And all of them have been through some sort of treatment or rehab or something. Okay, that's also important. And it's just a beautiful place with peaceful grounds. And there's a pond and ducks and turtles. And Yeah, but the grim fact is there's coyotes. And

then now there was like 10 ducks. Now there's only It's kind of beautiful. Not in the sense that they're dying, but you see life right at your fingertips. Yeah. How volatile life is. Also the beauty of the trees, the birds, everything. Yeah, and it's all very transient too, sadly, the ducks. Well, so we're very grateful for your doctor sending you there and the people that have been staffed there and all of your colleagues

that you're with in the program. It's been a really great experience, but not without some If it was perfectly straight, I wouldn't have learned anything. That's what we've talked about. And I believe that the troubles I've been having here push me to think and understand myself even more. And I've stayed here the longest of any treatment. I graduated, quote unquote, Betty Ford, I completed the program. such an accomplishment for me because I usually always dip out, leave at two

weeks. And that was about two, three weeks of pushing Yeah. Yeah. And right between two and three weeks was really I actually was in a class that says a lot of It's a common thing. Two weeks and then they fall off if Yeah. And then once you get past that white knuckling or honeymoon stage, right about two weeks is when that disappears. Yeah. So what happened to you? What kind of things occur in your head or in your behavior at that two week juncture?

A lot of stuff. But the main thing was uncomfortability. Wanting new. I wanted novelty. I felt I was hearing the same lectures over and over because I was there enough Yeah, and you've just been kind of uncomfortable, kind of dissatisfied with some things. And what is your instinct when Yeah, flight. You have a very strong flight response that

you've been really working hard on. And you haven't left I was recently, I actually at Daisy Lane, I was about to leave because of some troubles that I had about the same thing, feeling no novelty. And as soon as I got past and talked and expressed my feelings and emotions towards the issue and to someone, some people, it released that balling up, which I usually do, especially with cannabis. I would just numb out and explode

Yeah, you leave, leave somehow or another. And you were on the verge of leaving a bunch of times in these last couple weeks. I would never walk out the door. I would, because I know the AMA looks And if I left campus, it would be not AMA, it would be AWOLing. And that's against my morals. And due to the fact that I'm clear headed, mostly It's ironic, but it's very true. You like rules. You like structure. You like people following them. And you're really a rule follower. Very

much so. So has the community been what's kept you there? You said you start opening your mouth and talking to people. Is

100%. I would like to say that lectures here, you get some nuggets out Maybe 10% of what I'm really getting out of this is 80%, 90%, let's say, is really the community and the other people going through the same stuff and expressing how we all have the same issue, and that's addiction. And it could be any substance. It could be anything. It could be sex. It could be gambling. It could be anything. It's still driven So talking with other people that struggle with similar issues has

Yes. And not just that, maybe even just community, having other That was the most therapeutic thing I've ever done here besides the community. That was an active thing that I was doing, but it was fun. It was really fun. Really fun. And you were chatting too. Over fun. Yes, over fun. Yeah, you're learning can be fun. So using your body, you're such a physical athlete and you experience the world very physically. So guys that were playing with you and... Oh, I would like to state that

I was talking to someone I would never have talked to on the outside. It's so strange, but awesome at the same time is in these treatment centers, you're put in with these people that are going through the same thing, but all walks of life, all ethnicities, all religions, all anything. But we have one thing in common and Yeah. So there's people that you probably would avoid out in the real world, maybe the different religion or something like that, but you are embracing your curiosity and just

seeing them as whole people that are struggling just like you. Exactly. Not just a whole person, but as a human being that is struggling and needs, not necessarily needs, but would benefit from a community and someone to hear, an ear to talk on. And I'm that ear to talk on. Yeah, you're a good listener. I've heard you tell stories of how you're helping other people and giving them resources, and you're just amazing. Thank you. Yeah. You're really getting

outside of yourself. Although, honestly, you probably like to help other people more than yourself, but still. 100%. Yeah. But that's helping you, though. When you help other people, it helps you. Yeah. And other people are helping you, and kind of what goes around comes around, yeah?

Well, what would you like our audience to know? You know, they've been following your story for, I don't know, some of them have been around since the beginning, but maybe for the last couple weeks, maybe they heard you in January or Well, I'm in a way better place than I've actually been in a long time. I may have felt this way some other times, but this is real. I've been off of cannabis for the longest time I feel in

a long time. So I'm actually feeling these feelings genuinely. So it's a true feeling of happiness, not just, I don't necessarily think happiness, but joy, generosity, giving, And just so our listeners know, you've been using Cadmus since you So this is the longest stretch and it takes about a month for cannabis

to get out of your system. So it's just about out, but you're I'm still peeing positive for THC, but I do feel the clearest I've ever felt and the line is so faint Okay, so it's a quantitative test so they can see that it's almost out. That's so great. Does it help you that they test you? Yeah. Yeah, they do it randomly. It keeps me accountable. But also, I have zero cravings. Zero. I haven't

had a single craving throughout this whole time here. I think it's because I finally You really made a choice and said, okay, this is ridiculous, because Let's say something tragic or something spiritual happened. Maybe it could have happened. We don't know. But this is the path I took. And Yeah, it came totally from within you. It wasn't even on my mind. You kind of shocked me by telling me you talked to the Yeah, you're like, Oh, by the way, Yeah. Yeah.

And that was on a Friday that you met with him. And on Sunday, we moved you I moved in. That was on the 7th, but I consider it because I think I use that day. Sure. So 8th

That's nice. Yeah. Whoever starts a diet the day before the diet, you got to eat some cake, right? You got to binge a little bit. That's very typical of anyone that's quitting anything. So yeah. Well, what are your future plans in the near I've learned, and this has always been kind of a thing, but day by day, sometimes even hour by hour, minute by minute, second by second. you have to stay close enough Exactly. But my future is looking a

lot brighter. That's all I can say. That's all I can say. I don't know what will happen. I don't want to know what will happen. It's a day by day thing. I go in the present now. And yes, I've been planning some things, getting some ideas out there, because that was what I was feeling in the moment. But I never act upon them impulsively. Yeah. So instead of going back and living with your dad, which we probably all could guess the trajectory of that, what that

I don't want to know. But in my heart, it's like I I could go to San Diego maybe and even be by the beach. But I Right. Yeah. You're going to get right into the heat of Oh, okay. That's pretty good. Okay. But you're going to stay there for a Yeah, get solid in my recovery. I've realized that smart recovery is my thing rather than AA. I will follow the steps of AA. take what I can from it, but in truth, I will not be going to

Okay. For those that aren't familiar, what is the difference? What is SMART Recovery like?

SMART Recovery is a lot more communication-based, and you can crosstalk a lot more. Okay. Because in AA, you usually And then after the meeting, you can like at And they teach more skills from what I... CBT-based, DBT-based. Cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavior therapy. Yeah. So it's more science-based 100%. They completely avoid God. They do implement spirituality, Yeah. And you don't have to sign off on it, you know? Yeah.

I know in AA they say it could be a higher power, whatever you want Yeah. But what I found here is through meditation, which has become something that I've implemented in my life after one experience, is that I have found a spirituality through meditation. And that is a big key to how I'm staying sane and calm. Nice. Do you have a regular meditation practice now or

I've had two transformative experiences within the two days. And I now have a routine, which is just put on meditation music, just like that spa music, I guess, and do specific breathing patterns. And that gets me into a very meditative state. And then the last two times Whoa. Are you wanting to share that with people or is it No, I can share it because it could help someone. And that vision, I guess, that I saw was Leona, our cat that passed away a couple of years ago. And I saw her in

the place she is now. And that I didn't break down with my spiritual counselor. But the second one which I had was I was in the same meditative state, but no visuals. I got a voice that said preserve nature. And then when I broke it down with my spiritual counselor, he said it's not exterior nature that he He expressed it as God, but I took it as spirituality and maybe a higher power. He said, I believe it is the seeds that you have planted in yourself that have sprouted in

that nature within you. You have to preserve that. Oh, that's beautiful. Because I thought I was going to go plant some trees or something, do some work Yeah, maybe you could do both. Who knows? I know being out in nature is very healing for you. It always has been. You've always been an outside kind of kid and just like getting dirty. getting into nature. I remember when you were in preschool, it

was kind of a hippie co-op preschool. I love hilltop preschool. And when I would go, I would stay inside and work with the kitchen or setting up painting or whatever, but you spent a hundred percent of the time outside. And I'm like, okay, let him have his space out there. And you just loved being outside. So there's a very good connection you have with nature. What would you like to do with Unraveling Adoption now that you're feeling so much better and getting a

I would love to be a lot more involved. That's how I feel and I feel I can help, not in an egotistical way, but I would love to help people through or maybe even counsel or therapize people. Not because I know more than others, but I have an experience that may help Yeah, I can totally see you being a coach or a therapist or a recovery specialist or any number of things, big

or small. There's ways to do it that don't take very long and there's ways to do it that take many years of schooling, but I can totally The long period of schooling probably wouldn't be my path, Yeah, there's programs that could take maybe a year of study. And we're getting ready to release our book. Would I really have been a little distant from the book, but I would love you to

Okay. Well, it's called Adoptees and Suicidality, an anthology of stories, poems, and resources for adoptees, families,

Yeah, because it has our story plus 14 or 15 other people's stories and poems and letters, and then a whole list of resources in the back. So this book is about suicidality, which unfortunately we know a lot about. And we think it's really important to share that connection between adoption and suicidality to hopefully save lives. So I'm tying it up right now. Hopefully in the next

couple weeks, it'll be coming out. So you won't miss it because I'll be blasting it everywhere because I feel so strongly that this information get out. And Joey and I share our story of how we've gotten through with your suicidality. And yeah, it's really important And again, I am 100% down for you to share that story. because I feel it is important for people to hear just like you. I don't hold back with my story.

Yeah. I'll put a link in the episode notes about an early episode we did about suicidality, if you'd like to hear Joey talking about it more. Yeah. So I don't know how it's going to look in the future, but certainly Joey wants to be more involved. I want him more involved. I've always wanted you more involved in anything, however much you want to be involved, we can do. And my big dream is to do a TED Talk with you one Yeah, manifest that. Actually, my girlfriend suggested

me watching her therapist who had a TED Talk. Oh, Oh, and it is. It is. And it is. And there's If you do decide to get back up on the horse,

Yep. So taking away any stigma and shame from relapse and just holding space for people that are struggling. It's really, really, really hard. And you're doing it and super proud of you. Is there anything else Again, I would hope for people to have a lot more love towards themselves and others. But that's a long way to come. But nurture yourself, nurture others, and Yeah. And if someone has a loved one in their life that's struggling with Stay curious. Don't judge. Try not

to, because that just hurts the individual more. And if I avoid stigma and understanding that they're Yeah, I don't take it personally. And what would you say to any adoptees or other people who are listening that are

there's hope for you. If you decide to choose a path of recovery, first thing is being honest with yourself and honest with others. Rigorous honesty is later, but some form of honesty can Yeah, so finding that person that might be able to hold your honest truth with you. Yeah, so important. Well, Joe, I am super proud of you. I can't wait to see you in two days and help you find a place to land after this. And I can't wait for you to be more involved with the pod or

with the book or with however you want to do it. We could create whatever you want. So we're all making this up as we go along anyway. We are just very, very proud of you. And I know Jan is too, she's sleeping right now, but she's very proud of you too. And we're just going to hang together and keep walking forward, all three of us. Yeah, my family does. That's what we do. All

right. Thank you everyone for listening. Please share this really important and wonderful episode with anyone you know who might be struggling with addiction. or who might be an adoptive parent, or who just might resonate with this continuing story of our family, loving each other through whatever. We just keep on it going. All right. Thank you for listening. Thanks again for being on again, Joey. I just love you so much. Yes. All right. We end every episode. This was Joey's idea

way back in the day. Joey and I want you all to