308: Vermont Is For Lovers, Too w/ Shonda Rhimes

Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.

The sand Watch, Yaz and Katie Wells.

We do this stream of consciousness thing sometimes randomly for episodes of Unpacking the Toolbox. We learned it from the lovely Hanna Simone because we did a crossover episode on her New Girl podcast and she did ours, and she did this freaking fun ass thing where she just she was like, I did a stream of consciouness consciousness while I was watching the episode, and she just wrote down what popped into her head while she was watching the episode,

Who?

I was like, what am I doing? You're upsella Alan Ginsberg? Yeah?

Look at all right?

So here goes Shonda Rhimes. A collector, an observer, a watcher of lives, of minds, of things good and bad,

That's it, my godde hotter.

As if you couldn't be cooler or hotter, or more interesting or more just the best human I've ever known. You're also a brilliant poet. Is everyone losing their minds.

I'm losing my mind right now.

Also, Seawanna is definitely listening to this episode and you will definitely hear it.

Yeah, so good, good, good good.

That was so beautiful. I mean, our listeners are Yesterday. Is the one and only Shonda Rhymes.

The queen, the one and only, and she is.

The creator of Huckleberry Quinn, the creator of Our Baby or Hawk like the Hook is one of the best care in all of television history.

In my opinion, I'm so lucky. We're so lucky to play these characters. She's also the queen of like all these stands right like oh late golits like mc steemy, McDreamy, all like all these like oh my nicknames that we've given these characters because people deeply fall in love with them. This is the woman that created these people, like these these stories.

And these relationships that people are just like obsessed with. It's just so and season three, you know, I'm so glad she's coming on because season three was so pivotal. I feel like this was where scandal is scandal, you know what I mean. Like one was one two we were like kind of getting out to the races and by season three, we were just like a fucking winning horse.

Just do you like my horse metaphor? Right now? I don't know where working, but you know what I mean?

Yeah, this is this is the season where you felt like, oh shit, one of us is gonna get struck by lightning, one of us is gonna be off, and one of us was a few of.

Us were dead.

Jerry Graham dead, fucking James Novak dead dead. Oh that hot girl that looks like Marika dead dead?

Also dead, like, oh oh.

The guy I killed at the beginning dead, Sanhan dead?

That's right? Yo? Did we We should have asked got about that, but we had him on the podcast before we did that episode.

Next time him on again. We have to be like, remember that hot B six thirteen girl? She looked just like Marika?

Was that intentional?

Supposed to be?

They could be sisters or something?

Yeah, okay, everyone, this episode is so great. But before G and I break down episode three eight, which is a personal fave of mine, we have an amazing, amazing guest. She's Bridgerton, She's Queen Charlotte, she is Gray's Anatomy, she's private practice, she's how to get and she's Scandal.

You guys know who it is the one to know.

That Shonda wh our Queen Bee.

It's seander Ess.

But we are at the time of this recording talking to her the day of the Bridgerton season three release. How is it feeling? Are we excited talk to us about Bridgerton?

It's feeling good, you know what I was thinking, like, this is the season three release and I'm here to talk about season three Scandal.

Oh that's right, yes, yes, So.

Shaanna doesn't do short shows like just so everyone knows, even though it's funny, like Queen Charlotte was obviously a mini series. Inventing Anna was a miniseriies that I got to be on, and I remember when you walked in, you were like, this is really weird, Like I only do shows that laughed like forever.

Seven years yeah, or more.

So Bridgerton in season three? Does it feel new still?

You know?

It does feel new because we have Jess Brown l now from Scandal when our Scandal writer's running the show, and so it's got like a fresh take and it's been really fun.

That's so exciting.

What can we can you tease anything as a massive step from you, I'm a freaking massive Bridgerton fan.

I could see nothing except you're really gonna love it. It's a very sexy season and Lady Whistledown gets her due. I love Lady whistle Down.

Oh you know what I'll be doing all weekend, We'll just be not leaving my house and just watching that. Okay, So take us through season three of Scandal. Gladiators was the Juggernaut season.

It was like, I know because I went back to look at all the episode names, so like refresh myself, and I was like, oh my god, this is the season. This happened, and that happened, and this happened was my favorite seasons. Really me too.

It's such a great season. I mean, major characters die, major characters murder. I mean it's a wild, wild season. And we were sort of we were in our groove, right. I think people really started to scan yeah and the characters, and it was such an exciting time.

Do you remember, Seana, Like, what did your days at this point? Like, okay, Gray's is obviously the Juggernaut. Now you've got two oh my massive juggernauts happening at one time.

Well, we also had we also had had to get away with Murder.

Oh my god, that was all this, I think.

Yeah, yeah, it was like the very beginning of it.

I think, right, yeah, my gosh, what was your day to day like at this point? Are you sitting in the Scandal writer's room all day? Or are you like hiding in your office? Like what was a day to day like in Shonda Rhime's life at this moment in time.

I feel like I was running around, like running around like a crazy person because I was popping in the Scandal's writer's room to talk about what we're going to do next and to hear all their ideas and pitches. I was in my office rewriting whatever script was coming up. I was also in my office editing whichever the next cut was to get on the air in like four days, and then I was going to like prep meetings and talking to Tom like it was crazy.

It was.

You always wonder why I was never like sitting on set. I was like, do you I didn't have time for that because I was also editing every episode to Gray's Anatomy at that point too.

Oh my god, I remember you. You sat on set with Betsy Beers during the pilot and that was probably the only time that you had time to eat that I was.

Until me did the finale, until he did the final episode.

You came down a few times and we would be like, which is the right move? I think also like you came down, I think for our seven fifty two monologues in season yes, like there were a cop like a handful in seven or eight years that you came down.

I wanted to see in person myself, you know what I mean?

Yes, yes, And also I think what you're what I've picked up on is there is this sort of at this point, which was already happening, there's like a real Shonda effect, which is people can't really and I love you so much, you know, I love you, but people can't do their jobs when Shonda comes to set because everyone is literally shaking in their shoes. I want to meet you and scared and intimidated and all this stuff.

So it's better, Yeah, you know, it's better.

I learned that, and I got to tell you like I learned it early on. I mean like maybe season six on grades, I would go to set and everything would stop and I'd go down to scandal and everybody. By then it was even worse because I had three nights, you know, three whole episodes of TG I T and people would be so nervous and like and I would comment. I would say like, oh nice wall, and they'd be like you hate them all, Like oh my god, We've

Yes, yes, I remember you came down to inventing Anna one day and everyone was like, oh my god.

Everyone who'd worked on the show with.

You and at exchange a million emails on like clothing choices and.

Were like, do you think I can get a photo?

Like production stopped because everyone needed to get their picture for their family.

It was nerve wracking, and I always feel so bad because honestly, I feel like I'm interrupting people having been able to do their creative process their way. So I'm like, I'm not going down there unless it's an emergency.

You need to go through like special effects like make up before you go to chests again and just go incognitiugno so people don't know what's you yeah, and they'll be there. I might try that, Yeah, you should seandy, didn't you You were also you were working on these shows, and then you were also raising kids at this time, right, did you already have your daughter?

No, I was working on these shows. Emerson was two in season three, Beckett was one in season three. Yeah, Harper was like a like, it's starting to be a teenager.

It was crazy, which is not an easy phase for kids.

I would bring you know what, Emmy was amazing because I could tuck Emmy under my arm bring her to the office because she was was this like silent observant baby, and we would sit in the writer's room. She could sit in the writer's room like all.

Day really and be perfectly fine and not make a peep.

Right.

I remember her being at a table read, like you know, at the beginning of one and she just was so observiing and like.

She would come to disablery and start of Buddha feeling.

I remember remember one day I took her from a Gray's Anatomy table read in the car straight to a Scandal table read and she just sat there the whole time, was like, this is so interesting. Beckett, on the other hand, was like I got a scream right now, So she didn't get to jump much.

Beer. I was just gonna say, those kids hearing Betsy Beers do the the stage directions probably low them into asleep. Right, It was like a lullab them.

Yeah we should have. It was one of my most favorite thing ever, Betsy doing this the stage directions.

I love that stage directions. Oh, she's the most. I've done so many table reads in my life, and there is nothing like a table.

Okay. So I called season three the come hell or high Water season because it starts with saying that, and it basically ends with Papa Pope saying that.

Yeah, that's right.

And season three is where Carrie also was pregnant. In this season, Carrie was pregnant, Yeah, and I mean, bless her and completely different than me. I feel like I watched this season and I mean, you can you know she's in some lovely, incredible jackets with some incredible purses and stuff like that.

Handbags in the world, Yeah.

The biggest handbags in the world.

And she's behind a lamp or she's behind it whatever, which I mean only Kerrie Washington, like Quinn, you could have never hidden a freaking day of my pregnancy. But what what was like, do you remember making a decision. I'm just curious, like where Olivia like was not going to be pregnant, Like how did that?

Well?

I knew from the beginning that Olivia Pope was not a person who wanted to have kids, do you know what I mean? I feel like she had been so traumatized by her childhood, and I was like, we certainly can't be doing the season with Papa Pope and her pregnant, Like it was just two. It didn't make sense psychologically, and so I was like, we got to hide it. I was thrilled she was pregnant, celebrated it every time anybody got pregnant.

But I was like, I know you did, and I was like, I don't.

Care if she kind of looks like we just don't figure out how high and Tom Barica was amazing and hiding that pregnancy.

Wow, I remember that that Olivia Pope, even in her creation, was someone that was that was not going to be That's not a character trait of her. She was not going to have a kid, which like, thankfully for Quinn, that was not the case for you.

Quinn was very normal, which is so funny considering who Quinn sort of turns into but Quinn was very normal.

But white picket fence kids the whole and this crazy job of pencil skirts. Okay, also in season three, I think for me it is the greatest guest starring cast. Like we have Leo Bergen in full effect, we have the Daniel Douglas murder. We have Lisaudre Andrew, we have Lisa, we have Sally Langston, we have Hollis Doyle back. Like it is like which guest star could get an Emmy because they were all just bringing their a game and were written the most credible characters. This is the season

The greatest job.

But also he died in I mean he got the Emmy, right, maybe you want to get killed off?

Yes? Yeah? No?

Never How do you know, like, how do you know that this is something that happens? I remember you saying something like I'm the protector of the story and the keeper of like the characters, Like how do you know when something like that is gonna is the right move?

I just know, I mean I don't know how to tell you why I know, I just know. Like I would go into the room and be like, okay, so James is going to die, and they the room was like what is wrong with you? Like Cyrus and James and Lovelah and they were going on, and I was like, it's the story, Like we're there now, like that's where we are in the story. Also, you know, I was actually with Dan Bukatinski this weekend.

Oh yeah, right, I saw a picture on Instagram.

Yes, the world is crazy, okay, But we were.

Talking, like Dan was talking to me and we ended up talking about the episode where he dies, and he talked about how emotional it made him just listening to Scott Fuley's speech, the whole thing, you know, where he sits next to him. It was it was great.

Oh that ending is I mean, there are so many this season between Sally Langston's like yum yum, Piggy Yum yum. Chris, She's losing her mind, like the devil has taken over her. She feels like God isn't talking to her anymore because she's a murderer. Scott Jake Ballard is next to next to James as he's gurgling these last gurgles and he's like, I'm so sorry, this had to be so painful, but we had to make it look like it was, you know,

But you just know when you know.

You're like, nope, James is gonna die. That's it. It's the way that it has to go. And I and you have to how hard that is as your job that you have to make it not personal like you're friends with Dan.

But that's why I'm the keeper of the story. Like I'm like, I can't like, I can't take any of that in account because the world I'm protecting is the story world and I'm the only one protecting at one. That's my job. So I feel like you make these decisions and you make them completely outside of what you're doing. It's really hard. Let me tell you.

It's cutthroat. It's it's savage.

It feels savage, but you have.

To do it. But but you know, it makes the show. It made the show so much more exciting when that happened. I love when Dan was telling us the story that he was trying to pitch to you. A world where James would come back. He was like, well, if you don't see the.

Body like we see it, it all happens, our life go out. It's bad.

Yeah.

He did a beautiful job with that. He did a beautiful job with that.

He made me sob and it also gave you such juice to be like, you know, the following episode, we get to go back in time and we see why James and Cyrus fell in love and in all of these things.

I love that episode.

Yeah, it's beautiful.

Yeah, we will be back with more after the break. When you are working on a season, for your process, is it the kind of thing where, like the beginning of the season, you mapped out the season three arc, or you're still completely open to taking a total left turn when we're in episode nine, like.

Okay, I want to tell you we never knew anything, but but I mean, you never knew to But one of the things was is I when I wrote and I'm literally like when I wrote the speech for Papa Pope in that first episode where he's like you will get on that plane come hell and eye water and I'm the hell and high water. I wrote that and I knew in my head from that moment. I was like, so at the end of the season, she's getting on

You might have an end mark you had like an end I knew everything in.

The Middlening too, Yeah, but like I didn't know we were gonna kill Jerry. I didn't know. I didn't know any of that stuff till till I knew it, you know what I mean. I was like, what's going to get him elected? And it was that stuff, you.

Know, savage, sad, brilliage, child, savage.

But the room was so great because they by this time they had learned that, like that's what we were doing, like we were there was nothing too special, and so they would come in. I'd come in and they would pitch me like amazing crap, Like I don't remember who wrote Yung Young Chrispy Piggy Young Mum, but it's still one of the favorite things that someone wrote, and it was amazing.

So good.

It's so amazing. But that's how I think it also, Lend, And I'm.

Not sure if that's how your process has been with your other shows and the stories you tell, but I feel like you can feel that in Scandal, I think, what what lends itself to the to the OMG and the oh my god, and there is no there's no too far you can go in there and it is because you all, it wasn't so premeditated, you know what I mean.

It wasn't so pre planned that.

You feel the like like this stress you feel it.

But also I feel like it's so important to say a lot of that came from like you guys. I would write it. We would write it. You guys would perform it. Then I would watch it and I would go to the room and go, Okay, so here's what's going to happen next based on what I watched, not

When the first time I saw Joe Morton do that speech, I was like, what the hell, because it is you're not used to in TV. You're so used to like make everything really small. Yeah, and the camera is a the camera is a microscope, so everything needs to be subtle and like nuanced, and it's just behind the eyes.

That was what you could do it. It was like what, like, we're breaking all the rules that I was taught right exactly to do a television drama. Like it was like, let's just.

Let everybody monologue. Yeah, we stuff.

Yeah, having monologues at all is not a traditional television thing.

Like I even seen that. It was crazy.

I loved it. I was having so much fun. Season three is one of my favorites. It just it is. It's absolutely one of my favorite seasons.

How did you know to kill a kid?

Like what wasn't happening like the killing of Jerry When we get to the end of this season, I am like, what this is un incredible. It was incredible and it was the only thing that would work to get him elected.

That was how he started. Like in my head, the thing I thought about that season was like that that amazing scene where Olivia and Cyrus are sitting on that bench in the hospital and Olivia says, he's gonna win now, He's absolutely gonna win, and Cyrus is like, I thought that too, and I was like, that to me was the ultimate political animal moment and really started from that, and also getting to have the kids on in the first place and seeing like what they meant in the

Oh, it was so so cool.

You do something, which I love, Shonda, You'll let the actor know, like, oh my god, one else knows that you're going to kill them off.

Whole thing to like just have some come to a table. Raad. We tried to trick Josh Moline into thinking he was going to die, but that that was the only time.

Yes, and he freaking so fast. He caught it, right, he even get spooked. Yeah, he caught it. He's annoying, so annoying.

And I love him, which brings me to one of our first questions. Of course, Ronia Diles wrote, my question is will there ever be a scandal movie or reboot of some sort. Many of us, myself included, feel like we need closure on olitz.

Ah.

This is a question that everyone asks, Like I'm constantly being asked. I'm like, asked, Sean, I don't know.

I know the story's over, but I would reboot this show in a minute, because we had so much fun and it was so much fun to work with everybody, just to get the band back together. Like, I would reboot the show. But I don't know. I don't know if you're ever going to get closure on Olitz, Like what kind of closure do you think you want? I know, because there's no fairy tale happy ending. We made that very clear from the very beginning, and I think people

No, it's a tragedy. I mean, Scandal really is like it's it's tough, but it is what it is.

Speaking of getting their happy ending in season three is where we get the Vermont House.

Yeah, it's such a beautiful house.

That house was so beautiful and that scene was so hot. I'm so uncomfortable. The only time I'm uncomfortable watching this show is like how close we all are and how I'll be watching the show and I'm like, damn, this is the hottest shit I've ever seen in my entire life. Like there's Fits and Olivia just going at it on the rug of this beautiful violin and the fireplace is going and how does Fitz's body look like that? And how does look And then I'm like, these are my friends.

Weird, so bizarre.

Episode. That's the episode that Avid Verney directed.

Oh that's right. She was amazing.

She did an amazing job.

And before she had I remember sitting with her and talking to her Selma.

It was before anything, it was before anything. No, they wouldn't let her, No, they would let her direct an episode of television. She'd want all these film festivals. A guy would have gotten one hundred million dollar picture off of it, but they were like, we don't know, we don't know. And scandal. We had this thing where we hired the directors we wanted to, and I was like,

Oh it was the best.

Love, that was the best. I'm the proudest of that.

I wish I would have gotten to work with her more. I think we worked with her just a couple of days, right, Katie like it.

Yeah, we didn't have big storylines during her episode, but I'll never forget sitting there she was and her being like.

Yeah, I was a publicist for a while.

And then I made this movie and it did really well at sun Dance, and I'm a filmmaker and da da da dah.

But this is the first time I ever done TV. And I'm going to do this movie called.

Selma, And I was like, I am catching this woman on the upswing of of changing the world.

Like she is going to.

She's incredible.

Yeah, incredible.

So there's another We have another question, a question from Mariah, Yes, a burning from Mariah Smith, and she says, what was your thought process in bringing in a character that most believe was supposed to come in between O lists?

He was we're talking about Scott right, Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, yeah. My thought process was simple, like I we needed somebody like that, you know, we needed that sort of spookiness, and I thought that that was powerful and important to have, Like you wanted this guy who the audience was like, no, yes, no, is he evil? Is he not evil? And I remember scoffing, like everybody hates me. Everybody hates my character.

Because it's good.

It's really good. And then just if you skip back, I wrote a monologue for him in season four which we sat together and watched while live tweeting, and I was like, just watch the tweets because once this monologue is over, the audience is going to turn. And we literally watched the audience turn from hating him to loving it in like a monologue.

Yeah, no way, no way.

It was the one where he thought he was going to die and he's sitting in that prison he's been beaten up by Fits.

Yeah, so good.

Oh my god, I guess.

I guess the audience was like, how how dare you bring in somebody that would ever come between Olivia.

Well, they were guys.

They were very loyal, and I love that they were very loyal to Fits in Olivia. But I was like, we have taken time to deconstruct Fits in Olivia for you. You got to fall in love with him the way she did, and then you got to learn the realities of him, and yeah, you know, he's a complicated personal love. But I also just wanted her to have some choice and I wanted Fits. I wanted Fits to have like somebody to be up against too.

Oh hell yeah, oh we all do.

I does love that, right, Like, yeah, I love love triangle.

When there's one woman and two men, I.

Think it keeps everybody.

It was this weird expansion of Papa Pope's family because you know, you know, Jake was one of his sons. Yeah, his sons, and so we needed this weird it was a weird brother sister relationship too.

Before we get to our last question, and then I know you have to go because we've got bridgert In coming out and there's a lot of press to be done. When did you guys decide? Because it's in this season also that Huck and Quinn romantically get involved.

They weren't interesting. I mean, like I talked about you like you're not here, but those characters were so interesting to watch yolo is that episode with the with the teeth pulling and all that. I just I just loved it so much and I and getting those characters together was this weird function of that dysfunction, you know what

Yeah, who is nasty enough in the writer's room. You don't have to doubt them to be like this is when he licks her cheek and this is when she licks his face, Like what is even going on? I'm watching it and I and I don't really remember doing it.

I'm so into it and I'm just like, wow.

Well, I remember, I remember the day you licked me. I remember that because we were shooting at Hollywood Cemetery.

Remember that.

Yeah, yeah, we just watched that and we had Debbie Allen. Debbie Allen, she directed the episode where we have sex on a car.

Oh yeah, and I was so complimented.

She is one of my all time favorite directors of all time. But I just she made me feel so comfortable and confident because Quinn has to be really sexy, and I'm that's probably the one thing I am as an actress. Just like, oh god, oh god, I want to crawl on my skin.

I'm suf ear those scenes.

Those scenes were so sexy. And here's the deal, Like, I remember the one sex scene I wrote other you know, like between characters who weren't fits and live. The one sex scene I wrote was the one where Abby sticks her fingers and oh so good and I and I wrote it. I was like, I just wrote it because it felt weird and it felt like what Abby would do.

No, no, he just we were fully closed, which we were very appreciative about. We also had long conversation Shanda, which the people know about we've talked about it before in the podcast, but G and I had long conversations where we were like, we will not make out like fits and Olivia. We are not movie stars. We are weirdos.

And god, we were like best It helped that you guys were best friends and it made it okay. But yeah, coordinators. Intimacy coordinators came later, and then once we had them, that's when I started being like I remember Carrie saying, like can can Scott and I just choreographed this this sex scene ourselves with the intimacy coordinator. I was like, great, Like here's what I want from it, knock yourselves out. And so that's when we started letting you guys choreograph

Right, Yeah, we felt so taken care of it.

Again. I mean, Debbie was She's like, yeah, she's the best.

And she just made me feel like she was just like you look good, Like she just was like really complimentary, and I was like, oh my god, I feel kind of cute, Like, thank god for Debbie Allen Lucky.

You are cute.

Okay, Gene, thank you Okay gee. Last question?

Is this really?

It?

Is this really it? We're like, this is a fast conversation. Wow, I know.

This is go go g This is a question. This is from Denise Steine. Another burning question. She says, I've been curious for years who was the funniest to write dialogue for? Sally or Hollis. Both such interesting characters in their own ways and have great one line.

You know, Hollis was really fun to write for, but for me, Uh, it was Sally. And the reason why it was Sally was she took herself so seriously, like Hollis was always like in on the joke, you know what I mean, But she took herself so seriously, and then to give her these lines like it's not in God's plan that I lose Ohio, like those kinds of things.

Which is so scary.

It was almost like she was like God had told her, you know, like she was supposed to be there like a king or queen, you know, like really right.

She played it that way, like literally like I am here because God says this is where I'm supposed to be. And so she played it so brilliantly crazy.

Oh she did.

And Leo Bergen is one of my all time favorite characters.

Oh my god, the entire.

Scandal verse, and this is the season where the church blows up and he rips Sally's shirt off and rubs some dirt.

Go go.

He's like, be Jesus, Sally, go be Jesus. That he was also great to write for, but you know, he was from private practice, so I've been writing for him forever and love working with him. So but it was really fun to see him come in as this like totally different guy, and he played it so hard and like so seriously. It was fantastic.

He's so good.

Oh, Shanda, you are the Is there anything else we have not talked about?

In season three? Before you have to go to your bridge, you didn't.

Talk about the fact that this is the this is the episode. This is the season where you introduced to his family.

At the end, Oh, Quinn, do that you were so mad?

Yep? That season was also that final episode is also Columbus shorts last episode, remember, because he was the one who figured it all out. He was the one who went to po and figured it all out. So it was there were a lot of big things that happened this season. That season was filled with these very very big moments.

And speaking of Harrison, right, I think this is actually a really good time to share some very special news with the listeners. Yeah, g and I, we had a beautiful reunion with Columbus Short and we recorded an entire episode together.

That really just it covers a lot.

Of ground about his time on the show, and we're going to be dropping that conversation in a few weeks, So definitely, gladiators and listeners keep an eye out on our socials for the official release date of that episode.

So Seanda, of course, you know that we had Columbus on the podcast. How what did you think? How was it?

I absolutely loved hearing it. I mean, honestly, you guys spend a lot more time talking about Britney spirits than you should have, but it was amazing.

Well, that's something we all have in common.

Yeah, it is. He's something we all have in common. But what I really loved was just hearing him be so open and brutally honest about that period of time in his life. It was really beautiful to hear. And I always have a special love for Columbus, you know, because he's such a talented actor and it hurts so much, but it was so brilliant. His time on the show is so brilliant.

Oh my god, Harrison is unforgettable.

He's unforgettable, and he's like always how I feel when I watch the show back. I'm like, he's like the gladiator, Like that's how I feel, like a gladiator in a suit.

He's that.

He was that, he was the gladiator in a suit who taught everybody else, like you know, he's teaching Quinn the ropes. It was he was great and I thought, like his his podcast, it's one to listen to because it's just amazing.

Good yeah, good good.

It was Yeah.

Yeah, your support means the world, and I mean we were really happy to have the platform to do it and that he was game and.

That was an amazing and I'm really proud of him circle. Yeah, I'm proud of him for taking that opportunity to me too. You guys are bold, but he was brave, yes, yeah.

And he came in with humility, yes, Like he was open and it was just lovely. Yeah. It was really nice to see him like that.

Season three was gonna bug you. For season four, we are.

Whenever you want to. I love talking about the show and I love talking to you guys. Seriously, you can just be like something I'm happy to do.

Oh, thank you so much. I love you so much. Best of luck.

I will I know what I'm doing this weekend, and at the time that this airs, everyone will have already seen Bridgerton and is obsessed with it, and the Bridgerton fandom will continue on. But we love you and thank you so much for coming on.

To the podcast. We'll be right back, guys.

So it was awesome to have Shonda.

On so great.

We love you, Shonda, We you Shonda Rhimes.

And now we're gonna break break break down this episode three oh eight, Vermon Is for Lovers Too.

You better tell somebody, you.

Better tell somebody, you better don't tell you. I love this episode.

It is a.

Steamy, steamy, steamy episode. Yes, sex o rama. Okay, this episode really was special for me. It's episode three oh eight called Vermont Is for Lovers Too. It aired on November twenty first, twenty thirteen, and it.

Was written by Mark Wilding and directed by the wonderful Ava DuVernay.

Guest starring Candy Alexander Asmya Lewis, Lisa Kudro is Congresswoman Josie Marcus, Jack Coleman is, Daniel Douglas Langston.

Brian Lesher is Tom Sally Pressman as Candace Marcus, Sharmila Davar is Lauren Wellman, and Ivar Broger as Doctor.

The synopsis to remind you, the OPA team gets closer to nailing down the security guard killer as Fits and Olivia do a little nailing of their own.

Meanwhile, Cyrus has a plan to take down Sally Langston. All it involves is pimping out his own husband to Daniel Douglass. Things comes to an epic climax after Maya Pope escapes from her cell and shows up at Olivia's doorstep.

Okay, so many things in this episode. First, you're all gonna remember this, Maya choose her own fucking risk.

That's my fist disgusting, disgusting, even for me, who is a huge horror fan. Disgusting and savage, Who the fuck she chewed her wrists off?

Who wrote this?

Mark Wilding?

She's been in jail for twenty years and it's on her back, thank god. And you just hear blood and gnawing and bone and snapping blood and snapping of ligaments and disgusting sounds, and you realize what she's doing is that she's chewing her own wrist off. So that she can essentially try to commit suicide to get her out of the cell, and the doctor so grossly says, yeah, this girl's.

Out of her mind.

Because we've had people be able to make it to like level one on your own wrists off and pass out.

She'd made it all the way through to the most major arteries, Like this bitch is correct.

She is a Maya pope.

That was disgusting.

The other huge, huge, like winning scenes of this episode, I mean the biggest. I must have written one thousand notes about Tony Goldwin's.

But I know, listen and one of the I feel like there's a character that is not a human in this episode that is such a standout and so beautiful and so epic, And it's the Vermont Home. Oh when we see this episode is.

Where Fits says, please, I needed time, and she gets in this private plane and I guess it takes one second.

To fly from DC to Vermont. And he walks into this house and there's like, you know, sheets.

On furniture, furniture, but the fires going into the most beautiful laid stonework fireplace in these vaulted wooden ceilings and it looks like they're in the most bucolic landscape scene, and he says, I bought it for us.

I wanted you to see it one time before I sell it.

I kind of broke down in that part when he says that and that love scene, the way that love scene was shot beautiful killed that ava.

The sex scene and Tony Goldwin's bad, that's unheard of. I don't understand his watch the man thick placement of the manscaping.

Hand, yes, and just the waist and that that sort of like V shape down such.

A V shape that is something genetic. And he's eating baby's blood.

Vampire ship in the middles blood. I think that's what it is.

It's the most epic sex scene. It's so beautiful.

They're just like on the floor. They're all over this Vermont house. And where did you hear where this house was shot? Because I loved like where in La Ladies? And how much does it come?

I've shot in this house. I have a scene in front of that fireplace with Darby, and I have a scene on the chair. You weren't there for that.

I don't think.

Yeah, it's a watch.

Let's get to that season.

In that episode, Yeah, there was a I remember Carrie telling me that, oh my god, Jamie Fox lived like right up the hill, and there was a day that they were shooting in the house and Jamie was having like a big old party and Carrie called Jamie to be like, Jamie, can you just turn down music a little bit because we're filming? And he totally did. Isn't that creepy? Oh my ye.

A good yes, that is absolutely hilarious, And so Hollywood.

I was just gonna say that Candy Alexander is is very much in this episode, and obviously she has that crazy scene chewing off at risk. She has the wonderful scenes with in the hospital where Eli Pope is showing her pictures of Olivia because she, again, like Katie said, she's been in prison for twenty years, right, so she doesn't even know what her daughter looks like when she

Are you like I need to YouTube videos of Candy Alexander.

Dance like, I'm sure you can. I'm sure you can. Oh man.

Somebody definitely says QR five facial recognition software in this episode it's Jake, and I love it so much, Like what is QR five facial recognition software? And how many times did you say it on Scandal? Because I think I said it seventy five hundred times.

I'm sure, I'm sure I've said it a ton. Something else that's stuck out for me in this episode is when James mentions Ella's Ella's poop law and I was like, is this laz, That's some straight hell bullshit. Y'all keep flogs of your babies.

That's poop blog?

Is that a real thing? Just to be like her poop today was like solid and sort of like brown.

Yeah, you right down.

Well, because if the baby is really little, when you go to the pediatrician, they ask you like how many times have they pooped impede in the day, because it's the only way to tell are they getting enough calories?

Are they hating weight?

And are they not like dehydrated? And is their body like up online? Also, I used to have a pooplog because yourself.

Not for Adam.

Adam, you had a pooplog for Adam.

Could you imagine Adam.

No for my baby, because if you had child's care, you would keep a log so that she could, like, when I got home from the end of the day, it would be written down if the kid went to the bathroom, because I could get home. She might have left, and the baby could be super cranky and you might not know why. You like, look at the poop log and you're like, oh my god, she hasn't gone to the bathroom, but all today she might have a really bad gas and maybe she needs medicine or like whatever.

I wrote that down to you though.

This is also the episode where Cyrus sets has been setting up, setting up, setting up for Daniel Douglas and James to have an affair. Yes, Cyrus is so convinced that when it when push comes to shove, James won't do it because he's not like fits, and it ends

Saddle, Well, I'm just back on the saddle again to this ally it does.

And then he said something like yeah, you really opened me up.

Yes, I really opened him up.

Or something like that.

And then he's like, Okay, come to bed, honey, and he's like, no, I'm going to take a shower. Don't wait, and he says, I love don't wait up for you, and he says, I love you. And then we see Cyrus open up his cell phone and he gets the document, like the actual proof of photos of them.

He's mortifies and hooking up.

Yes.

And what's so crazy is that at this time when we were making this episode, I didn't know, none of us knew that this was going to be the thing that leads James.

To his death. Oh my god, yeah, and Daniel Douglas and.

Daniel Douglas, everybody dies, Cyrus fall so good, so good.

I love I love the moment where between Quinn and Huck were Huck and this I love that this In this episode, Quinn is trying to hide the fact that she killed that security guard. Right, Oh, yeah, she killed the security guard, but she's trying to hide that end.

This is the episode where she's trying to get the information before you do.

Yes, Yes, and the whole Opia team is like working hard to get the picture of that woman with that pencil and killed the security guard.

And Quinn's like shit happy says that shitty pencils, skirt and those dumpy heels.

But there's a moment where Quinn goes into Huck's office and Huck is like, hey, you do a really good job. You do a really good job at what you do, or something like that, and I don't tell you enough and I love that. I love that. But then Quinn is like then.

The episode is and Quinn comes into her apartment and she has her spiding senses up and she's like Huck and he's waiting, Oh, there's a folder on the floor, and she picks up the folder and it's a close up shot of her in the building that killed the security office and Huck is waiting there with the tarp and the tool.

And the tool.

Row.

I remember shooting in that, in that in Quinn's apartment. Whenever we shot in Quinn's apartment, it was always like a really intense scene, like a really good, juicy, intense dark scene. It was always exciting shooting there. And it was on the stages at Centic Hour.

Yeah, it was on the stages. Okay, Giirmo. Six Degrees of Horror?

Was there anything in this app If you look on your notes, I don't know these movies.

Well listen, Yeah, there was a lot of horror, and it was in the beginning of the episode.

Yeah, Kenny Alexander was in Firstborn in two thousand and seven. A pregnant couple buys a mansion and moves out of NYC. Strange things start happening to the c sectioned anxious new moment.

Have you ever seen Firstborn?

I have not seen that. Can you believe it?

Now?

A horror movie exists that Giermo Diaz has not seen?

And then Terminal.

Also I will never.

Watch these movies, but also I kind of love it. And also this episode was a horror thing in and of its own. We had to watch a woman eat her own wrist off, which was absolutely yeah, okay.

Fun fact for this episode, it's like, this is a lot.

But the compound that's in Quinn's syringe, which they name, it's called bachelor and toxin, the effective dose that actually would kill someone around that dude's weight would have had to have been three pounds of liquid shit. So there's no way that that that they named in the episode could have killed that guy. But like whatever, oh my god, Scandal tweets at the time, this one's.

Away at Luck.

You mean it, wrote Quinn, You dumb bitch. Why would you ever trust Charlie?

Hashtags game, love it go dogs tweeted back at back at Mo. Miriam She tweeted, oh my god, just saw last night's Scandal episode. Quinn finally about to die? Get her ass, Huck? Oh shit, what all this drama with Quinn?

All this?

Like all this Quinn?

I love it at far dus of ninety two tweeted, you believe he's killed your mother, but you forgive him because he got you a house.

Olivia is something else so true?

Tait potait Ho tweeted, are you a side chick if you get picked up by a helicopter to stay in a posh mansion. Hashtag scandal. Olivia Pope got me wanting to be a side chick.

I agree, I agree.

At Angel Rene thirteen tweeted, Melly is the side chick and she knows it hashtag scandal.

I'm not true.

Scandal Possessed tweeted hashtag scandal. A Scandal crew can have just one well lit, oh litz love scene before the show is over. It's hard out here for a fangirl editing pics. Oh my god, so she's saying she wants to flighting to be brighter so she could edit a good fucking picture.

Just really focus on Tony Goldwin's yes. Oh look at this shot.

This is with a picture at ohso brand New tweeted, Olivia Pope be like, oh, I thought you said throw it back Thursday hashtag scandal. And it's definitely a very saucy photo of Fitzgerald Grant behind Olivia Pope without their clothing on.

And it looks like there's some on panky panky.

Hanky panky back position going okay.

Felicia tweeted, why y'all ain't warm me about this lady eating her arms on Scandal. I was eating sorry about that, Felicia, I.

Know same at Smiley Stylist tweeted, I just had a whole body shaking flashback to last night's hashtag scandal at ave et cetera. Plus shonder rhymes have me shook. I still hear the chewy And guess what next episode is? All y'all who our Quinn haters are going to get what you need because the next episode is three o nine and it's called Yola Yolo Yolo.

Quinn's about to Quin's about tua.

Quinn's about to go to the dentist. She about to go to the dentist.

Y'all.

So, if you guys want to hear all about how much you hated Quinn and make sure that she gets her shit tortured real bad, come listen to next week's episode of Unpacking the Toolbox, a Scanalal rewatch podcast for episode three oh nine titled.

Yo Quinn's gonna check her yuck mouth. Maybe she just got a yuck mouth.

Thank you guys so much for listening. We love you.

Tell your friends, Hey, if you like the scandal Rewatch podcast, tell a friend to subscribe to it.

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Bye.

We love you, Thank you, bye everybody. Thank you, Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate, or leave us a review.

Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alce, Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is Vince Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.

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